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Gone_AwayUK
06-10-2005, 10:22 AM
Should the European armies invade Africa to get rid of the dictators and autocrats? I think they should because those dictators are ruining every chance there is of getting rid of povety. Also, more support is needed fighting the ethnic cleansing in Dafur (Sudan).

Bare in mind I am not a war mongerer but I think it has come down to this. I don't want the Americans poking their nose in either because they'll just nuke the place probably.

GA-UK

Noodles is gay
06-10-2005, 10:30 AM
No, it'll cost us far too much.

We should stop sending aid there too...bloody Blair - it's just because he wants to look like he 'cares'.

Preecey
06-10-2005, 10:31 AM
Now even bloody Zimbabwe is against us because Blair gave aid to Mugabwe's opposition.
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Preecey
06-10-2005, 10:32 AM
Besides, do people actually learn from the Middle East? Going in there will create more harm than good. Why should it be our concern?
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wheelchairman
06-10-2005, 10:39 AM
Right, cause European Colonialism worked so fucking well last time.

I'm sure the Tunisians just can't wait to have the French back over them.

Preecey
06-10-2005, 10:42 AM
But I think we ought to gun down Mugabwe (if that's how it's spelt). If not for the future of the people there, then just for fun.
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wheelchairman
06-10-2005, 10:47 AM
But I think we ought to gun down Mugabwe (if that's how it's spelt). If not for the future of the people there, then just for fun.
I would say Mugabe initially had the right idea. Too bad he was just an opportunistic bastard. The fact that the best land in Africa, is owned by white farmers, is wrong. That's oversimplified, but a class-analysis would be beyond you.

Preecey
06-10-2005, 10:50 AM
Yes, but by turfing off the white farmers he unstabilized food production. True, it wasn't going to the right people in the first place, but beating up valuable people is a cruel and worthless tactic.
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wheelchairman
06-10-2005, 11:06 AM
Yes, but by turfing off the white farmers he unstabilized food production. True, it wasn't going to the right people in the first place, but beating up valuable people is a cruel and worthless tactic.
Valuable people? as opposed to invaluable people? what the fuck are you talking about?

None of the white folk knew how to work the fields. They paid black people to do it, which is why, in reality, there should be no real difference. The problem is that Mugabe gave the land to ensure the political loyalty of the elite in his nation instead of giving it to the actual people who toiled it.

Preecey
06-10-2005, 11:08 AM
I meant valuable people in releation to working the fields. Maybe the white people didn't slave, but they knew how to work it. Maybe 'valuable' was an inappropriate term.
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wheelchairman
06-10-2005, 11:15 AM
I meant valuable people in releation to working the fields. Maybe the white people didn't slave, but they knew how to work it. Maybe 'valuable' was an inappropriate term.
So the people who worked the fields don't know how to work the fields? What kind of trash are you babbling? There is no justification for the 'white farmers' of Africa. They just use black labour has a cheap source of revenue.

Preecey
06-10-2005, 11:18 AM
Zimbabwe is in a state of famine because of Mugabwe. And whatever about white farmers, it was a working system before. Now it's just fucked up.
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wheelchairman
06-10-2005, 11:24 AM
Zimbabwe is in a state of famine because of Mugabwe. And whatever about white farmers, it was a working system before. Now it's just fucked up.No, it was a completely failed system before. That's how Mugabe got support in the first place. Essentially nothing has changed except the conditions of the White Farmers. They just have more influence and now it appears like all hell has broken loose, but it's just the same hell with or without them.

Preecey
06-10-2005, 11:26 AM
Well, I stand by my claim that we should just take him out. If even if just for fun. But invading Africa is not an option.
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wheelchairman
06-10-2005, 11:34 AM
Well, I stand by my claim that we should just take him out. If even if just for fun. But invading Africa is not an option.
You want to invade Zimbabwe but not Africa?

Face it, your humor was poor, and your point baseless.

Preecey
06-10-2005, 11:37 AM
You want to invade Zimbabwe but not Africa?

Face it, your humor was poor, and your point baseless.
I get that a lot. And I never said I wanted to invade Zimbabwe. Just kill that evil bastard.
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wheelchairman
06-10-2005, 11:41 AM
And I never said I wanted to invade Zimbabwe. Just kill that evil bastard.
oh right, I forgot. Thank god you didn't mean you wanted to get rid of a political leader through invasion.

But let's face it, you're still wrong. The guy's an ass, but no more than the next president or whatever. Especially in a third world context.

Preecey
06-10-2005, 11:46 AM
oh right, I forgot. Thank god you didn't mean you wanted to get rid of a political leader through invasion.

But let's face it, you're still wrong. The guy's an ass, but no more than the next president or whatever. Especially in a third world context.
Maybe you're right. But seriously, I'm not such an inmature faggot as to want to invade an entire continent.
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wheelchairman
06-10-2005, 12:01 PM
Maybe you're right. But seriously, I'm not such an inmature faggot as to want to invade an entire continent.
You're still an immature ignoramus for wanting to invade a country with a political situation you know nothing about. Why the hell is everybody so gung-ho?

Preecey
06-10-2005, 12:05 PM
Well, you wouldn't be the first to call me inmature, but I wouldn't lass myself in any way of being 'gung-ho'. I was making the point that we shouldn't go into Africa. I also bow to your obviously superior knowledge of foreign affairs.
Now let us shut the fuck up about this thread.
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felix_leiter
06-10-2005, 12:06 PM
Mugabe is a racist cunt though-he's just a fucking tyrant

wheelchairman
06-10-2005, 12:10 PM
Mugabe is a racist cunt though-he's just a fucking tyrant
So far, the dumbest reply yet. Congrats Preecey, I have new-found respect for you.

felix_leiter
06-10-2005, 01:45 PM
I speak the truth, I'm afraid, sorry to put it out there.

wheelchairman
06-10-2005, 02:11 PM
I speak the truth, I'm afraid, sorry to put it out there.
The fact that you can't discern truth from fact about a political situation you know nothing about, aside.

Why is he a racist? Would you consider Bishop Desmond Tutu a racist as well then?

I would personally say it's more racist to allow the white elite of these countries to continue exploiting the black labour for their own source of revenue, simply because at one point in history their forefathers brutally oppressed their forefathers.

felix_leiter
06-10-2005, 02:18 PM
just because that's more racist doesnt stop Mugabe being a racist, which he is

wheelchairman
06-10-2005, 02:28 PM
just because that's more racist doesnt stop Mugabe being a racist, which he is
Actually, I would say the idea is just what African countries need to do to gain more independence and a functioning economy. And there is nothing racist about it.

RXP
06-10-2005, 02:34 PM
We should stop sending aid there too...bloody Blair - it's just because he wants to look like he 'cares'.

I hope your being sarcastic.

If not I hope you die.

wheelchairman
06-10-2005, 02:38 PM
I hope your being sarcastic.

If not I hope you die.
w0rd. although, if England is anything like Denmark, all the aid is going to British companies working in the specific areas, to 'increase employment' and other neo-liberal lies like that.

felix_leiter
06-10-2005, 02:48 PM
Many of those white farmers without British passports had their land taken-incidentally, not by the black workers of those farms (who would probably have been attacked).

White Zimbabwean (sic?) farmer deported.
Black Zimbabwean farmer not deported.
=Racism

wheelchairman
06-10-2005, 02:51 PM
Many of those white farmers without British passports had their land taken-incidentally, not by the black workers of those farms (who would probably have been attacked).

White Zimbabwean (sic?) farmer deported.
Black Zimbabwean farmer not deported.
=Racism
In a Zimbabwean context, it should've been done at least 20 years ago. It's not racism to reverse the crimes of racism. That's like saying black people should have never tried to escape from slavery.

RXP
06-10-2005, 03:02 PM
w0rd. although, if England is anything like Denmark, all the aid is going to British companies working in the specific areas, to 'increase employment' and other neo-liberal lies like that.

Yeah but money is still being pumped into their economies and the cirular flow of income means it will propigate, eventually.

NiG give us an answer, were you joking?

felix_leiter
06-10-2005, 03:05 PM
The struggle against slavery was not against "white people" as a whole. Sure, those slavemasters were white, but it was not a case of "who enslaved you"-"the white race". Slavemasters and those who wanted to keep slavery were despicable people, but were not all white, and neither were all those fighting against it.

The battle against slavery was not a "Race war" like what Mugabe is conducting in Zimbabwe.

wheelchairman
06-10-2005, 03:08 PM
The struggle against slavery was not against "white people" as a whole. Sure, those slavemasters were white, but it was not a case of "who enslaved you"-"the white race". Slavemasters and those who wanted to keep slavery were despicable people, but were not all white, and neither were all those fighting against it.

The battle against slavery was not a "Race war" like what Mugabe is conducting in Zimbabwe.
True, but the white race in Zimbabwe is the 'slave-master'. White workers in the capital city have been relatively fine. It's only the land-owners who've been an exploitative force that have had any need to fear.

Noodles is gay
06-12-2005, 07:15 AM
Yeah but money is still being pumped into their economies and the cirular flow of income means it will propigate, eventually.

NiG give us an answer, were you joking?

well no, actually, I was not joking.

If there wasn't problems here I'd be all for sending money out there but the fact is that if the money were to be used over here it would make England a hell of a lot better than she already is, and once we reach that state we could then send money out there. Also as WCM said the money we do actually send goes to companies etc.

Don't get me wrong though; I think that charities like Oxfam are good - because they exist solely to give Africans money but I don't think it's the place of the British government to do it.


although hoping I die is a little harsh, don't you think?

RXP
06-12-2005, 09:47 AM
Not not really. You are a selfish cunt. I hope you die. England's sooo terrible compared to Africa. I hope you get raped.

wheelchairman
06-12-2005, 10:54 AM
Yeah but money is still being pumped into their economies and the cirular flow of income means it will propigate, eventually.

Perhaps, although don't you think that these companies are harmful to the competition of businesses in these nations, really in a way, crippling the circular flow of income. Especially since they don't really give much in the way of income anyway.