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[dAV¡D]
07-23-2005, 05:46 PM
Well this is my first message in your forum and I would like to talk about an opressed nation, where i belong, Catalunya...
Maybe you haven't heard about it but you should know where Barcelona is... Barcelona is Catalunya's most important city. Our money is being stolen every year to pay things to the rest of Spain... to Madrid and other shitcities...
Well i'd like to tell you that our politics are trying to make Catalunya a recognised nation. Catalunya and Spain would be like Scotland and the United kingdom for example, and that would be great!! If you come here travelling, don't buy any typical spanish thing as bulls or other because we're not spain. Bullfighting is prohibited in Barcelona... I find it so stupid to torture animals...
Well my Offspring friends I hope you liked my message and learnt some things about where I am from... see you soon! post replies!

[dAV¡D]
07-23-2005, 06:20 PM
Oh what do they call em, seperatists?

You're not a nation. You're a subculture and don't deserve your own country because you're slightly different from your neighboring province, or whatever Spain has. That's not why nations are formed. Otherwise the country I'm in would be split into 1000 different countrys.

where are you from?

[dAV¡D]
07-23-2005, 06:26 PM
Well we're a nation because we speak a different language, CATALAN, which is different from spanish, we have a different culture, different gastronomy, different everything!! even our own history... Catalunya is an opressed nation between Spain and France. Sometimes we've been part of france, sometimes of spain...

Cerberus
07-23-2005, 07:06 PM
Few questions.
Has Catalunya ever been an independent nation?
How do their culture diffrens from rest of Spain? (exept language)
Why do u think u can compare Catalunya to Scotland?

I`am personaly really interested of history, but i don`t know too much of Spanish history (exept colonial era) so I`am NOT starting any depate of which is right or wrong.

ruroken
07-23-2005, 08:30 PM
That'd be funny. Watch yourself in war! :)

Sin Studly
07-24-2005, 07:43 AM
When the Irish wanted independance they didn't act like faggot pussies and post shit on a BBS to people who don't care about the troubles of some place they've never even heard of, they built pipebombs and blew British civilians to pieces.

Wimp.

HornyPope
07-24-2005, 07:49 AM
The Catalan were not to be outdone as far as civil strugle and resistance is concerned. I read about it, with Orwell being one fascinating source I can quote atop of my head.

Sin Studly
07-24-2005, 08:09 AM
Spain needs the loving hand of Franco back, it's falling apart without him.

PsychoticAndInsomniac
07-24-2005, 08:14 AM
']Well this is my first message in your forum and I would like to talk about an opressed nation, where i belong, Catalunya...
Maybe you haven't heard about it but you should know where Barcelona is... Barcelona is Catalunya's most important city. Our money is being stolen every year to pay things to the rest of Spain... to Madrid and other shitcities...
Well i'd like to tell you that our politics are trying to make Catalunya a recognised nation. Catalunya and Spain would be like Scotland and the United kingdom for example, and that would be great!! If you come here travelling, don't buy any typical spanish thing as bulls or other because we're not spain. Bullfighting is prohibited in Barcelona... I find it so stupid to torture animals...
Well my Offspring friends I hope you liked my message and learnt some things about where I am from... see you soon! post replies!

Go and marry Carod Rovira now that gay weddings are legal in Spain. Then fight together against the opression of your villages.

wheelchairman
07-24-2005, 03:04 PM
I find the fight for national independence to always be interesting. Barcelona is a left-wing haven in Spain. It's actually just nice to see the Graffiti over there. Although obviously País Vasco has more attention in the media with their struggle (and I feel, also more popular support.)

pOpe
07-24-2005, 05:11 PM
Hi... I'm not against Barcelona's independence but.... what does Barcelona wins withh the independence??? or Pais Vasco??


pd: sorry about my english... I'll put then in spanish again

a ver... q tal tios?? weno... yo no estoy en contra de la independencia de barcelona o el pais vasco... lo unico q no la entiendo, es decir, q gana Barcelona independizandose?? yo soy madrileño, y no qiero independizarme del resto de españa... amos, nu se, solo qiero q me lo expliqeis, no voy cn mala intencion ni a reprocharos na xD!!

pOpe
07-24-2005, 05:32 PM
Go and marry Carod Rovira now that gay weddings are legal in Spain. Then fight together against the opression of your villages.
hey, what happend with gay weddings??? I think that it is good for people... I am not a beliver (I don't know the right word... catholic? I mean that I don't belive in any raligion) and I'll never have a wedding... but I think that if a man and a woman can do it, why two men or two women can't do it??

pd: I'm not gay, so don't do stupids comments about me :p

pOpe
07-24-2005, 06:06 PM
Hablar en Englis, amigo.
I try to speak in english.... but don't worry, I won't speak in spanish anymore here :p

PsychoticAndInsomniac
07-25-2005, 03:19 AM
hey, what happend with gay weddings??? I think that it is good for people... I am not a beliver (I don't know the right word... catholic? I mean that I don't belive in any raligion) and I'll never have a wedding... but I think that if a man and a woman can do it, why two men or two women can't do it??

pd: I'm not gay, so don't do stupids comments about me :p

A few questions to you:

Who spoke about religious weddings?

What has religion to do with civil weddings such as gay weddings?

Who said anything against gay weddings?

Why are you so stupid?

jbmixed
07-25-2005, 05:15 AM
Hi... I'm not against Barcelona's independence but.... what does Barcelona wins withh the independence??? or Pais Vasco??


pd: sorry about my english... I'll put then in spanish again

It's very simple!

- Spain is pressing Catalonia with a lot of taxes. Collected taxes in Catalonia are not reinvested in catalonia.

- Spain doesn't respect Catalan Culture, and tries to impose its language: Castellano (spanish is modern invented word) to us, against Catalan, our native language.

This is two type of reasons: Economical and Cultural.

More info about catalonia:

http://www10.gencat.net/gencat/AppJava/en/catalunya/simbols/index.jsp

T-6005
07-25-2005, 08:58 AM
That region of spain is comparable to Quebec.

pOpe
07-25-2005, 12:17 PM
A few questions to you:

Who spoke about religious weddings?

What has religion to do with civil weddings such as gay weddings?

Who said anything against gay weddings?

Why are you so stupid?
me la toka ablar en español.... lo primero, si yo no e insultado, no empieces tu a dar x culo tronko/a, antes me metia mil en esta parte del foro, pero to el mundo se insulta... se supone q es una discusion, debate... etc etc... en fin

y segundo, si digo q tienes en contra de los matrimonios gays, lo decia porq tal y como pusiste eso de "vete con carod rovira y casate con el ya q aora se puede con los matrimonios gays" sonaba como si estuvieras en contra... en fin, si no es asi pido perdon, aunq solo te preguntaba q tnias en contra de ellos, no q fueras una gilipollas, como tu me dices :mad:

PsychoticAndInsomniac
07-25-2005, 01:18 PM
me la toka ablar en español....

First one: This thread isn't a "Foro en castellano", so don't write your answer in Spanish.


antes me metia mil en esta parte del foro, pero to el mundo se insulta... se supone q es una discusion, debate... etc etc... en fin

Second one: If you don't like the way people discuss here, then just don't post. Nobody obliges you.


y segundo, si digo q tienes en contra de los matrimonios gays, lo decia porq tal y como pusiste eso de "vete con carod rovira y casate con el ya q aora se puede con los matrimonios gays" sonaba como si estuvieras en contra... en fin, si no es asi pido perdon

Third one: I don't have anything against gay weddings, so right, you got it wrong.


aunq solo te preguntaba q tnias en contra de ellos, no q fueras una gilipollas, como tu me dices :mad:

Fourth one: I thought my message was clear, but you didn't get the irony, which I find quite stupid. That's why I said you were stupid.


Will you cry on or is it OK now?


PS. I'm a girl.

[dAV¡D]
07-25-2005, 04:38 PM
Few questions.
Has Catalunya ever been an independent nation?
How do their culture diffrens from rest of Spain? (exept language)
Why do u think u can compare Catalunya to Scotland?

I`am personaly really interested of history, but i don`t know too much of Spanish history (exept colonial era) so I`am NOT starting any depate of which is right or wrong.

1. Yes. Catalans national day is eleven of september... on that day of 1711 catalonia was conquered.
2.Our culture is very different its like if you compare french and spanish culture, the same, 2 different cultures... dont know what to tell you.
3. Catalunya has always had some relationship with Spain like Scotland with the other pars of the United Kingdom.

[dAV¡D]
07-25-2005, 04:41 PM
That'd be funny. Watch yourself in war! :)
we are not going to war... probably if the spanish civer war had been won by those who lost, catalonia would be an independent country.

[dAV¡D]
07-25-2005, 04:42 PM
Spain needs the loving hand of Franco back, it's falling apart without him.

...die you nazifucker...

[dAV¡D]
07-25-2005, 04:43 PM
First one: This thread isn't a "Foro en castellano", so don't write your answer in Spanish.



Second one: If you don't like the way people discuss here, then just don't post. Nobody obliges you.



Third one: I don't have anything against gay weddings, so right, you got it wrong.



Fourth one: I thought my message was clear, but you didn't get the irony, which I find quite stupid. That's why I said you were stupid.


Will you cry on or is it OK now?


PS. I'm a girl.

Joder kina mala llet... vas de llesta...

KappaWing
07-25-2005, 08:05 PM
If you're so opressed, then why don't you just move? Fighting for the independence for such a small area is futile

Norwegian Cat
07-26-2005, 03:21 AM
The most stupid thing mankind has ever invented are nations and its respective nationalities and borders.

PsychoticAndInsomniac
07-26-2005, 03:57 AM
']Joder kina mala llet... vas de llesta...

I see you don't get the point...If you post here, do it in English; if you don't want to reply in this language, then don't post here. Especially if you are going to answer in Catalan, because even Spanish people might not understand you. Just create a new thread called 'Fòrum en Català per a imbècils com jo' and write monologues, it might be funny.

And please, if you want people here to take your opinion seriously and start discussing it, you should at least give some solid arguments. Try to reason why do you think Cataluña is an opressed 'nation', why do you say your money gets 'stolen'...if you can.


']Catalunya and Spain would be like Scotland and the United kingdom for example, and that would be great!! If you come here travelling, don't buy any typical spanish thing as bulls or other because we're not spain. Bullfighting is prohibited in Barcelona... I find it so stupid to torture animals...

What the fuck has bullfighting to do with your autonomy debate? Why do you mix up stupid stereotypes with this topic? And in fact, do you really believe every Spanish likes bullfighting and only you Catalans are the exception?

pOpe
07-26-2005, 06:47 AM
dioooossss... q puta pesada

PsychoticAndInsomniac
07-26-2005, 06:57 AM
dioooossss... q puta pesada

Ok, I'll answer in the 'Foro en Castellano'. I see you are even stupider than I thought.

Jesus
07-27-2005, 08:57 AM
'] Our money is being stolen every year to pay things to the rest of Spain... to Madrid and other shitcities...


Point being?


']Well we're a nation because we speak a different language, CATALAN, which is different from spanish, we have a different culture, different gastronomy, different everything!!


I fail to see why you would need or want to secede for that.

Sin Studly
07-28-2005, 06:01 AM
This is why they need Franco back, it'd stop whining complainers like the stupid Catelunyans from opening their useless bitch mouths.

pOpe
07-28-2005, 06:35 AM
Franco?? he was the worst spanish person in the world history... Franco is dead, and I'm happy for that

PsychoticAndInsomniac
07-28-2005, 07:18 AM
Franco?? he was the worst spanish person in the world history...

I don't think you can say that (and I also believe 'bad persons' are not only the ones who establish dictatorships and organize genocides). Perhaps the most tyrannic leader in Spain's contemporary history, but I don't see why he is worse than others that lived before. I'm not only referring to the 'dictators' that ruled during the last two centuries, but for example to Spanish colonialists.

Sin Studly
07-28-2005, 08:46 AM
Franco was a hero, and your country turned to shit without him.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/b/bf/GarroteExecution1901.jpg

VIVA FRANCISCO PAULINO HERMENEGILDO TEODULO FRANCO Y BAHOMNDE SALGADO PARDO DE ANDRADE! VIVA SPAIN!

edit ; and if you think Franco was the worst Spanish person in history (not that I agree with you), you've obviously forgotten about Tomas de Torquemada (another man I admire greatly).

pOpe
07-28-2005, 11:36 AM
I don't think you can say that (and I also believe 'bad persons' are not only the ones who establish dictatorships and organize genocides). Perhaps the most tyrannic leader in Spain's contemporary history, but I don't see why he is worse than others that lived before. I'm not only referring to the 'dictators' that ruled during the last two centuries, but for example to Spanish colonialists.
Yeah, I know about spanish colonialists, and I don't like what happened in the past, but it was another society, I'm not defending the past, but I belive that Franco was the worst, because he killed thausands of people with the help of Mussolini and Hitler (planes, many soldiers...)

I think that if Franco would lost the war, Spain would be an important nation like England, France or Germany now

pOpe
07-28-2005, 11:41 AM
Franco was a hero, and your country turned to shit without him.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/b/bf/GarroteExecution1901.jpg

VIVA FRANCISCO PAULINO HERMENEGILDO TEODULO FRANCO Y BAHOMNDE SALGADO PARDO DE ANDRADE! VIVA SPAIN!

edit ; and if you think Franco was the worst Spanish person in history (not that I agree with you), you've obviously forgotten about Tomas de Torquemada (another man I admire greatly).
Franco wasn't a hero, he was a dictatorship, a killer.... You can't kill a person only about his ideas, this is not an alibi... If you like dictatorships go to Cuba, and then tell me if you like dictatorships

Sin Studly
07-28-2005, 06:00 PM
Fuck that, I hate communists. I'd happily live under Franco, Hitler or Mussolini, though.

And answer me, do you think Franco was worse than Torquemada? Or do I know more about the history of your pathetic nation than its own countrymen?

wheelchairman
07-28-2005, 09:34 PM
Franco wasn't a hero, he was a dictatorship, a killer.... You can't kill a person only about his ideas, this is not an alibi... If you like dictatorships go to Cuba, and then tell me if you like dictatorships
Don't be such a vagina. I've been to Cuba, and I've seen worse "democracies."

PsychoticAndInsomniac
07-29-2005, 03:42 AM
Yeah, I know about spanish colonialists, and I don't like what happened in the past, but it was another society, I'm not defending the past, but I belive that Franco was the worst, because he killed thausands of people with the help of Mussolini and Hitler (planes, many soldiers...)

There are many Spanish who killed hundreds or thousands of people. Sin Studly just mentioned one of our greatest prides, Spanish Inquisitors. Franco isn't in my opinion worse than them, victims are victims and that doesn't depend on historical time.

We tend to regard modern history's dictators more critically because facts are more recent and we somehow expect contemporary leaders to act 'civilizedly' or 'racionally'. True that society is told to have 'evoluted', but I don't think that justifies those past slaughters or makes them less cruel.


I think that if Franco would lost the war, Spain would be an important nation like England, France or Germany now

I don't understand why.

pOpe
07-29-2005, 05:38 AM
I don't understand why.


I mean that 'cause since 1936 to 1950 the economy was horrible, and all european countries didn't help us... since 1950, Franco change his point of view (.. I don't know if that expression is right) and USA gave to Spain money for the military bases to fight communism, and then Europe help us

I mean that there is 14 years of economy retreat (or recession, I don't know the right word) in Spain

pOpe
07-29-2005, 05:39 AM
Don't be such a vagina. I've been to Cuba, and I've seen worse "democracies."
Yeah, I know, but it was the first communist countrie that I think

jasofern
07-29-2005, 06:47 AM
Spain needs the loving hand of Franco back, it's falling apart without him.
yeah it is, they do need him

Sin Studly
07-29-2005, 06:54 AM
Right, so basically you're saying Franco was more evil than a man who spearheaded the golden years of the Spanish Inquisition, tortured and executed thousands of people, and systematically and deliberately tortured believers into falsely confessing that they were heretics, you're saying Franco was more evil simply because Hitler helped him, and because he... let me get this straight... he used planes and tanks?

I'm all for the slaughter of Jews and all, but even *I* have to admit that Torquemada took it too far. I fail to understand how anybody could think he's less evil than Franco.

pOpe
07-29-2005, 11:38 AM
Right, so basically you're saying Franco was more evil than a man who spearheaded the golden years of the Spanish Inquisition, tortured and executed thousands of people, and systematically and deliberately tortured believers into falsely confessing that they were heretics, you're saying Franco was more evil simply because Hitler helped him, and because he... let me get this straight... he used planes and tanks?

I'm all for the slaughter of Jews and all, but even *I* have to admit that Torquemada took it too far. I fail to understand how anybody could think he's less evil than Franco.
Not only for that, it is about his ideas... he would like to kill millions of people, now there are thousands of people that think like Franco, or they belive that ('cause most of these people are ignorants)... now there are many stupids people. It's not only the past, it is the present and the future too

Sin Studly
07-29-2005, 11:32 PM
Torquemada was infinitely more pro-extermination-of-millions than Franco was.

*passes a tissue*

You're dribbling shit, boy.

sKratch
07-30-2005, 02:05 AM
Random comment which I'm not sure has been made yet-
It's safe to argue that Catalunya is a nation because geographically speaking, this term deals with culture, language etc. Being a nation is a legitimate reason to pursue statehood, although nation-states are far and few in between (in the most basic sense, a common people under a common government).

PsychoticAndInsomniac
07-30-2005, 03:46 AM
I mean that 'cause since 1936 to 1950 the economy was horrible, and all european countries didn't help us... since 1950, Franco change his point of view (.. I don't know if that expression is right) and USA gave to Spain money for the military bases to fight communism, and then Europe help us

I mean that there is 14 years of economy retreat (or recession, I don't know the right word) in Spain

Sorry, but...are you saying that Spain has less political relevance in Europe than France or Germany because of this economical crisis?????

Green_Day
07-30-2005, 04:44 AM
blah blah blah bullshit. catalunya is spain, keep dreaming.

a french fan
07-30-2005, 09:22 AM
I'm the bros of "a french fan" and i'm a fan of the barça too so since the ideas are the same i post this photography of the derby between the Barça and the real mandril (that's to say "monkey" the nickname of the madrilenos)
http://img103.imageshack.us/img103/9837/barareal27rt.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

pOpe
07-30-2005, 09:51 AM
Sorry, but...are you saying that Spain has less political relevance in Europe than France or Germany because of this economical crisis?????
yeah, what about G-8?? Spain is not there.... what countries have more political relevance in the world??? USA (more rich than Spain), England (more rich than Spain), France (more rich than Spain), Germany (more rich than Spain)....The money is all in a country. If you are rich, you can do many things, if you are poor, you can't do anything

PsychoticAndInsomniac
07-30-2005, 11:47 AM
yeah, what about G-8?? Spain is not there.... what countries have more political relevance in the world??? USA (more rich than Spain), England (more rich than Spain), France (more rich than Spain), Germany (more rich than Spain)....The money is all in a country. If you are rich, you can do many things, if you are poor, you can't do anything

And you think Spain is now less rich because of the 1936-1950 economical recession?????? The crisis was overcome after receiving that money you mentioned from the USA for Franco's support for the witchhunt, but the same happened i.e. in Germany with the Marshall Plan. And they are now richer than us despite their recession during the last years.

Let's accept it: the XVIth century is over. Even though Aznar refused to believe it.

pOpe
07-30-2005, 11:56 AM
I only said that Spain has 14-15 years of disadvantage

pOpe
07-30-2005, 11:59 AM
Let's accept it: the XVIth century is over. Even though Aznar refused to believe it.


sorry, I don't understand this :p

PsychoticAndInsomniac
07-30-2005, 12:16 PM
sorry, I don't understand this :p

*starts crying*

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_empire

Telecaster
08-04-2005, 01:52 AM
There is enough denial in this thread to choke a fuckin cow.
Newsflash: Catalans are first Spanish, then Catalan.

Your are not the only population in the world that feels it should have its own independent country. However, you are lucky enough to have your own autonomy. Your own Generalitat has total jurisdiction over culture, commerce, public safety and local governments. Granted, you don't have fiscal autonomy, but hey, if you had it, you might as well be called an independent country.

Catalonia gets most of its income from tourism and sorry to dissapoint you, but it is falling sharply. Your coast has become saturated with mostly cheap and low quality holiday resorts designed to accomodate low budget tourists. With your main industry taking a beating, I would strongly advice you not to try breaking away from Spain.

Let's also not forget that you are what you are thanks to the European Union, and that is thanks to Spain. It is the billions of Euros of European development funds that have made the region of Catalonia the developed place it is today and none other than the Spanish government is to be thanked for this baffling inflow of "charity" money. Moreover, the growth of your capital that you feel so proud of was sparked by the '92 Olympic games. Without it, your capital would be no more than the village it used to be in the not so distant past. Oh yeah, you can thank Spain for that too.

Get over yourself.

MichealCorleone
08-07-2005, 04:41 AM
There is enough denial in this thread to choke a fuckin cow.
Newsflash: Catalans are first Spanish, then Catalan.

Your are not the only population in the world that feels it should have its own independent country. However, you are lucky enough to have your own autonomy. Your own Generalitat has total jurisdiction over culture, commerce, public safety and local governments. Granted, you don't have fiscal autonomy, but hey, if you had it, you might as well be called an independent country.

Catalonia gets most of its income from tourism and sorry to dissapoint you, but it is falling sharply. Your coast has become saturated with mostly cheap and low quality holiday resorts designed to accomodate low budget tourists. With your main industry taking a beating, I would strongly advice you not to try breaking away from Spain.

Let's also not forget that you are what you are thanks to the European Union, and that is thanks to Spain. It is the billions of Euros of European development funds that have made the region of Catalonia the developed place it is today and none other than the Spanish government is to be thanked for this baffling inflow of "charity" money. Moreover, the growth of your capital that you feel so proud of was sparked by the '92 Olympic games. Without it, your capital would be no more than the village it used to be in the not so distant past. Oh yeah, you can thank Spain for that too.

Get over yourself.

*fucking, you're/you are, disappoint, advise