PDA

View Full Version : Atheist wants God removed from US currency



[Warning] Nimrod In Town
11-19-2005, 09:38 AM
Discuss this idiotic blasphamy!

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051119/ap_on_re_us/coin_motto_lawsuit

My thoughts?


I'm a Christian but I don't go around ordering people to put Jesus on stuff.

Remember when atheists used to not even exist? People seemed to agree with each other a lot more back then. Of course there was all that...black plague...back then.

arak0r
11-19-2005, 09:50 AM
people, like that atheist, need to stfu and grow up. all these people trying to get things like that removed, trying to remove god or anything like that from this country, its just absurd. like those people who wanted to get the ten commandments removed from a school. what the fuck. as if the ten commandments were an immoral thing :|

im not hardcore religious or anything, but people are getting far too anal about that shit.

wheelchairman
11-19-2005, 09:59 AM
If a government is non-religious, doesn't it show religious preference to put "God" on your currency?

Offspring7
11-19-2005, 10:00 AM
If a government is non-religious, doesn't it show religious preference to put "God" on your currency?

Yes, yes it does. It always confused me how we have separation of church and state, yet our national currency has "In God We Trust"

JoY
11-19-2005, 10:00 AM
nothing wrong with religion. it's a personal choice & people should be able to make it, without the whole 'modern' society of little annoying anti-Christs jumping on their backs. knowing religion is there if you need/want it, is important to humanity.

plus, atheists are such believers. pff. they keep nagging about how God doesn't exist, when there's no way they could ever know that for a fact. therefore atheisms is just another religion.

Edit; oh right, I'm just babbling in thin air, by the way, because I have no idea what Nimrod was saying.

arak0r
11-19-2005, 10:03 AM
Yes, yes it does. It always confused me how we have separation of church and state, yet our national currency has "In God We Trust"

people that seem to think this is some hardcore religious thing by saying that really need to research the founding fathers, their beliefs, and several other "religious" messages found in many documents, say the declaration of independence.

wheelchairman
11-19-2005, 10:04 AM
It has nothing to do with being an atheist, it has to do with having a secular government in the United States. This is one of the foundations of the nation. That the government was secular, that there was no discrimination (or favoritism) of religion done by any government body. So when government bodies do, write religious writings on those coins, it is wrong. Simply because America does not have a uniform religion, so writing God does not represent all or even the majority of Americans.

I don't see what's so complicated about that.

JohnnyNemesis
11-19-2005, 10:04 AM
If a government is non-religious, doesn't it show religious preference to put "God" on your currency?

My sentiments exactly.



I'm a Christian but I don't go around ordering people to put Jesus on stuff.

But by calling this atheist "blasphemous" or "ridiculous", you're kinda doing the same thing.

Sunny
11-19-2005, 10:07 AM
You know what, I envy people like that. Because they must lead pretty damn good and carefree lives to be like "hmm, what should i worry about now? oh! yeah! a tiny print on dollar bills!"

I can't force myself to care about his cause.

Little_Miss_1565
11-19-2005, 10:08 AM
people, like that atheist, need to stfu and grow up. all these people trying to get things like that removed, trying to remove god or anything like that from this country, its just absurd. like those people who wanted to get the ten commandments removed from a school. what the fuck. as if the ten commandments were an immoral thing :|

im not hardcore religious or anything, but people are getting far too anal about that shit.

The Ten Commandments being immoral or not aren't even the point. Like WCM said, it's about the government being a secular aka non-religious government. Public schools are run by the government. Ergo, the Ten Commandments there is the government endorsing a particular religious background, i.e. judeochristianity.

[Warning] Nimrod In Town
11-19-2005, 10:13 AM
But by calling this atheist "blasphemous" or "ridiculous", you're kinda doing the same thing.

It's just ridiculous. Im not doing the same thing.

sKratch
11-19-2005, 10:19 AM
You are kind of doing the same thing.

Every time 1565 says a word like ergo, my manparts giggle.

[Warning] Nimrod In Town
11-19-2005, 10:19 AM
What am i doing?

sKratch
11-19-2005, 10:20 AM
Calling him ridiculous is like him calling you ridiculous for believing in God sorta thing. Although, like others have said, I think it's a rather petty thing to get all worked up about.

Little_Miss_1565
11-19-2005, 10:22 AM
Nimrod In Town']It's just ridiculous. Im not doing the same thing.

You don't go around telling people to put Jesus on things because it would be illegal. Now the government shouldn't be doing the same, that's why there's a suit. It's not like this is the first time such a suit has been filed, quit acting surprised.

Sunny
11-19-2005, 10:27 AM
Uhhh. How come this guy doesn't flip out over the president's speeches, which mention god a lot more frequently and in a more.. obnoxious way?

i mean, HELLO.

Text of President Bush's proclamation of Nov. 24 as Thanksgiving Day.

Thanksgiving Day is a time to remember our many blessings and to celebrate the opportunities that freedom affords. Explorers and settlers arriving in this land often gave thanks for the extraordinary plenty they found. And today, we remain grateful to live in a country of liberty and abundance. We give thanks for the love of family and friends, and we ask God to continue to watch over America.

This Thanksgiving, we pray and express thanks for the men and women who work to keep America safe and secure. Members of our armed forces, state and local law enforcement and first responders embody our nation's highest ideals of courage and devotion to duty. Our country is grateful for their service and for the support and sacrifice of their families. We ask God's special blessings on those who have lost loved ones in the line of duty.

We also remember those affected by the destruction of natural disasters. Their tremendous determination to recover their lives exemplifies the American spirit, and we are grateful for those across our nation who answered the cries of their neighbors in need and provided them with food, shelter, and a helping hand. We ask for continued strength and perseverance as we work to rebuild these communities and return hope to our citizens.

We give thanks to live in a country where freedom reigns, justice prevails, and hope prospers. We recognize that America is a better place when we answer the universal call to love a neighbor and help those in need. May God bless and guide the United States of America as we move forward.

Now, therefore, I, George W. Bush, president of the United States of America, by virtue of the authority vested in me by the Constitution and laws of the United States, do hereby proclaim Thursday, Nov. 24, 2005, as a National Day of Thanksgiving. I encourage all Americans to gather together in their homes and places of worship with family, friends, and loved ones to reinforce the ties that bind us and give thanks for the freedoms and many blessings we enjoy.

In witness whereof, I have hereunto set my hand this eighteenth day of November, in the year of our Lord two thousand five, and of the Independence of the United States of America the two hundred and thirtieth.


ahem!

JohnnyNemesis
11-19-2005, 10:36 AM
Uhhh. How come this guy doesn't flip out over the president's speeches, which mention god a lot more frequently and in a more.. obnoxious way?

i mean, HELLO.

Because if he did, he'd automatically be linked to Al-Qaeda and would be on a one-way, all expenses paid trip to Guantanamo Bay :P

Sunny
11-19-2005, 10:40 AM
So in other words, he's just a big whining pussy who decided to get fixated on one insignificant aspect of the problem. =p

i mean, how many people listen to Bush's speeches? yeah. quite a few.

how many people turn over their dollar bills to read what it says on the back? how many people even know what the other symbols on the bills MEAN?

yeah, exactly.

he needs to set his priorities straight. *angers*

T-6005
11-19-2005, 10:40 AM
It's a bit of a bandwagon argument to comment on the presence of God within the US's government - but it's still a good point, and I agree with WCM on this one. A secular government has a responsibility to avoid religious favoritism.

arak0r
11-19-2005, 10:43 AM
According to the U.S. Dept. of Treasury (http://www.treas.gov/opc/opc0011.html), the motto 'In God We Trust' came about not at the time of the Constitutional Conventions, but due to increased pressures to recognize God on coins and money during the Civil War. In April 22, 1864, Congress passed an Amendment authorizing the motto to be placed on the two-cent coin. It appeared on various coins throughout the years, and appeared on paper money in 1957. The phrase was eventually printed on all paper bills, superseding the motto "E Pluribus Unum" (From Many, One) adopted by the Union in 1782.

so hell it can at least be on a 2 cent coin :rolleyes:

as for the suit to remove it all. honestly my problem is that people are being complete pussies about it. this kinda crap reminds me of Fahrenheit 451. my argument isnt with the constitution, or the government on this, my argument is with the people who are getting upset over such small trivial things. there are millions of things in this world they could be worried about, and theyre causing a fuss over, "In God We Trust" I somehow doubt that putting that on a dollar bill is gonna make people stop practicing other religions, or is even infringing on their right to practice other religions.

i am a liberal leaning independent, but nothing is more annoying than complete liberal pansies that raise a ruckus over this sort of thing :[

JohnnyNemesis
11-19-2005, 10:43 AM
Sunnies, I agree, but I think it's iffy to say "well, he should be getting mad at something else and not this", because I mean...that kind of argument can be stretched to include anything that's ever involved anything bad the U.S. government has ever done.

Yes, he should be mad at more significant things, but who's to say there won't be someone already covering those more significant things? This is significant in its own way.

arak0r
11-19-2005, 10:45 AM
as it is, there is no way in hell youre gonna get the current and most likely future presidents to not be religious. its their religions that get them elected at times, youre not going to change that. if you want to, go ahead, but going after something like that on a dollar bill isnt going to do a damn thing.

hes basically nitpicking. there we go, finally found a way to fully voice what i think of this arse. nitpicker

Sunny
11-19-2005, 10:48 AM
Ricky - I agree, and I'm not asking the guy to focus on all the bad things the US government has ever done. We're talking about a secular government mentioning God, which is a very particular and narrow instance. Now, this guy manages to completely overlook the fact that Bush *constantly* says "God bless America" and includes God in all his speeches AND his reasoning... which to me would be far more offensive than mentioning God in print. I mean he's arguing against gay marriage because GOD SAID ITS WRONG. I just think that there are other more important, if not life-changing, displays of lack of secularity that he should be worried about.

HornyPope
11-19-2005, 10:50 AM
http://tinypic.com/fvydkj.jpg

arak0r
11-19-2005, 10:51 AM
the guy is from california, that explains alot (just actually read the article)

seems hes hellbent on his war against religion in government. its that kind of person that makes me wish there was a god, because itd only be more amusing to see that guy when he finds out

arak0r
11-19-2005, 10:51 AM
5$ for the person that tells me the last non-religious prez :p

JohnnyNemesis
11-19-2005, 10:55 AM
Ricky - I agree, and I'm not asking the guy to focus on all the bad things the US government has ever done. We're talking about a secular government mentioning God, which is a very particular and narrow instance. Now, this guy manages to completely overlook the fact that Bush *constantly* says "God bless America" and includes God in all his speeches AND his reasoning... which to me would be far more offensive than mentioning God in print. I mean he's arguing against gay marriage because GOD SAID ITS WRONG. I just think that there are other more important, if not life-changing, displays of lack of secularity that he should be worried about.

After re-reading my post, it totally came out wrong, but what you're saying now is kind of what I was trying to get at, so we agree even more than I thought.

The main point I wanted to make though, but failed to do so earlier, is that just because there are more important things to worry about doesn't mean that he doesn't have the right to tackle this issue. Whether he should tackle it or not is ultimately subjective, but I think ALL problems should be addressed, which includes this one, even though the speeches you mentioned are INFINITELY more important.

I think that ignoring something as subtle as the print on our currency is the exact reason Bush can use God in speeches and have no one question him. We can always attack the more obvious problems, but those obvious problems are ENABLED by the subtle messages we're conditioned to accept and ignore because they SEEM insignificant.

It starts at our coins, and ultimately leads to our President's speeches. It seems like the connection I'm making is way too abstract, but hear me out. It's kinda similar to how a seemingly innocent joke or supposed "mistake" can escalate into racism, homophobia, or spousalabuse, etc.

Sunny
11-19-2005, 11:04 AM
Thanks for explaining. I do agree that all problems should be addressed, and that the small ones are strongly connected to the larger issues. I just kind of wish the guy mentioned the other problems even once, instead of making this seem like the only and isolated display of the problem in question.

It's kinda like when feminists talk about the way women are (mis)treated in society and as an example they bring up superfluous nudity in movies/magazines, not ONCE mentioning the attack on reproductive rights, the "glass ceiling", the wage differences and other instances of sex-based discrimination.

Do I make sense? =/

Endymion
11-19-2005, 11:46 AM
and what about this "christmas is a national holiday" bullshit?

am an athiest and i couldn't give a shit that it says god on coins. idealisticly, it should be removed for the reason that wcm stated, but i really can't understand why people would get so up in arms about it.

arak0r
11-19-2005, 12:00 PM
idealisticly, it should be removed for the reason that wcm stated, but i really can't understand why people would get so up in arms about it.

100% agreed, especially with the last part. i guess thats why im simply against the idea of removing it, just to spite the people getting up in arms about it :P

the_GoDdEsS
11-19-2005, 12:12 PM
I'm not going to take any sides here but having read the early American literature, I did have the feeling that it had a lot to do with God and nature. So I kinda understood it the way that it's kinda a traditional thing. Just like you had Christianity in Europe as some sort of value or whatever. And what's with all this "God bless America" then?

0r4ng3
11-19-2005, 12:14 PM
This is nothing new. America is hypocricy's homeland. Two thirds of the signers of the Declaration of Independence were slave owners. You know, the document that said "All men are created equal".

arak0r
11-19-2005, 12:15 PM
because god knows about countries and political lines and all that and specifically chose to love america more than anyone else, duh.

arak0r
11-19-2005, 12:17 PM
You know, the document that said "All men are created equal".

that statement is false anyways.

Endymion
11-19-2005, 12:23 PM
but seriously, what about the government recognizing religious holidays?

Sunny
11-19-2005, 12:23 PM
joey - I agree. I firmly believe that certain people are subhuman.

:P :P :P

arak0r
11-19-2005, 12:25 PM
but seriously, what about the government recognizing religious holidays?

put it this way, you take it away, how many christians are gonna regularly work on jesus' "birthday," or the day he ascended to heaven?

Endymion
11-19-2005, 12:26 PM
yeah, but why can't i get john stamos's birthday off?

0r4ng3
11-19-2005, 12:27 PM
Maybe 'cuz he's not dead.

wheelchairman
11-19-2005, 12:27 PM
Put it under a winter holiday thing, like they do in schools. Ain't so hard to figure out.

Endymion
11-19-2005, 12:28 PM
Maybe 'cuz he's not dead.

he was circumcised for my sins. plus he took a crown to the face on the last episode of clone high and was then flash-frozen in a meat locker.

All About Eve
11-19-2005, 12:28 PM
put it this way, you take it away, how many christians are gonna regularly work on jesus' "birthday," or the day he ascended to heaven?

As many as want their jobs.

notoriousdoc
11-19-2005, 12:31 PM
Anyone who use the word blasphemous when talking about anyone else's beliefs should be shot

All About Eve
11-19-2005, 12:34 PM
Anyone who use the word blasphemous when talking about anyone else's beliefs should be shot

Or crucified, which would be hilariously ironic.

arak0r
11-19-2005, 12:40 PM
the funniest thing, imho, about that guy is that if he had the chance i bet hed send his kids to a private catholic school.

arak0r
11-19-2005, 12:44 PM
As many as want their jobs.

not true. the jewish persons get their days off as far as i know. bottom line is, as long as the country is over 70% christian, its gonna be a national holiday.

notoriousdoc
11-19-2005, 12:44 PM
Or crucified, which would be hilariously ironic.
Hmm, I like that one

JohnnyNemesis
11-19-2005, 02:01 PM
yeah, but why can't i get john stamos's birthday off?

Holy god fuck I love you intensely for this.

And Sunny, you make total sense, and I'm with you on that feminist movement stuff.

All About Eve
11-19-2005, 03:01 PM
not true. the jewish persons get their days off as far as i know. bottom line is, as long as the country is over 70% christian, its gonna be a national holiday.

That's not my point. The question was would they still go to work even if it weren't a holiday, not will it stay a holiday or not. My statement indicated that if they did skip even if it weren't a holiday many would lose jobs.

FuckingHardcoreBitch
11-19-2005, 03:07 PM
yeah religion…the good ol' trick still works…(by the way punk was all about fucking up religion, but hey…)

everyone has the right to worship God, Allah, Buddha, the fucking Zappata clowns and rest…

But how is it that state merges with religion ? what's the connection ? To me, it's mass population control…"be good, don't think --> good dog --> heaven"

Are some people free to believe there's no "god" ?

How can you say that this chruch is better than this one ? that you're right because it's written in a friggin book ? (bible, coran, high times, whatever…)

Consider, for a second, all answesr mentioning god's will like false (just for a second, for the…exercise)
like

"God wanted it","He chooses who lives and die…", "It was writen…"

Do you feel void ? To me that's the purpose of religion : filling an empty space, formed by the fear of the unkown (and death)…Can be good if you need it…why not ? But there's is no truth in religion…just…guessing…hoping

Like this sect came to knock on my door the other day…it was jehovah members…quite funny…trying to shove all the good all tricks…

"So you think we're on this planet without purpose?
- Damn yeah
- No goal left by god ?
- Nope
- Where do we come from, then ?
- Unicellular organism such as paramecies.
- So we would be like animals ?
- We are animals
- Isn't it sad ?
- No
- You know we build houses…
- …
- So we're builders
- Universe is our house
- …
- So there must be a builder for our universe
- ** laughing all my fucking tears out hearing this poor statement and slamming the door **
"
and so on…

I don't know, I've been to funerals (for instance), and listening the priest was really unbearable…People I loved were in the coffins, while that dude was talking crap…

I can't buy shit like
"Ho, don't worry they'll be upthere with HIM, with all those they onced loved, because the lord is graceful, bla bla bla"

face it, they're not going anywhere but the local graveyard, turning into dust, eaten by worms…

yeah it hurts, much more than thinking they'll be "upthere" (where's that ? the super vip club held by HIMSELF where you get to hang out with jimi hendrix marvin gaye and marylin monroe ?)

Fuck that ! life hurts…that's how you know you're alive…To me it's like believing in santa claus… at least so far there's no santa claus extremists bombing the whole place, trying to convert others because IT'S IN THE BOOK…

I might sound untollerant towards religious people…I'm not (i try not), but I'd like to imagine a world without assholes walking up there neighbours to slaughter them because
"sorry buddy, but it's my place here…didn't you know ? Look it's written, here St John 784, "
"ho didn't you know you were wrong ? yes, i'm right, it's written here, …"

"sorry but I'll have to kill you , nothing personal, my god told me to do so, it's written, here…"

as for the "god" word on bills, it's pointless…i think there are MUCH more important things to fix in the US than that…

please forgive my anger but relgion causes too many deaths…a lot of problems would be solved if people stopped hidding behind "him" the perfect answer to our fears and ignorance…

And if 'im wrong if there's a god, then i shall be punished and sent to hell (MWAHAHAA…) with all the heretics… the cool people i'd say…

All About Eve
11-19-2005, 03:18 PM
yeah religion…the good ol' trick still works…(by the way punk was all about fucking up religion, but hey…)

No it wasn't, punk was just a musical and outward form of expressing ones self.




But how is it that state merges with religion ? what's the connection ? To me, it's mass population control…"be good, don't think --> good dog --> heaven"

Are some people free to believe there's no "god" ?

Everyone is free to believe what they want. Church and state are actually supposed to be opposite, and no laws have been passed directly because of it, but many have been subliminaly influenced.




How can you say that this chruch is better than this one ? that you're right because it's written in a friggin book ? (bible, coran, high times, whatever…)



You can't and be right. Any church that inspires belief into its followers is a successful church and surpassed by none.

*no comments on rest of your post due to lack of time*

adRi
11-19-2005, 03:30 PM
Everyone is free to believe what they want.

True. We are free to choose our religion, and these days there are alot.

Here in Spain, religion sucks, because they are in politics too, thing which I hate :mad:
Believe in sth is not a bad thing, but there are some limits... we must enjoy our life.God's law is not the same as priests one (history proves it)

Endymion
11-19-2005, 03:40 PM
not true. the jewish persons get their days off as far as i know. bottom line is, as long as the country is over 70% christian, its gonna be a national holiday.

that was my point... so long as 70% of the country believes in a christian-like god and the founders of the nation were all christian, "in god we trust" will be on change. it's not any different, and it's really not a big deal.