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View Full Version : Bush Visits Canada...



Italia311
12-01-2004, 08:04 PM
Anyone catch any of the interviews or news casts? I missed them all! All I know is that there were a buncha protestors and shit like that...and they discussed the war and beef...Anyone care to comment on this particular event?

sKratch
12-01-2004, 08:12 PM
Hah I saw a bit of it on the news and people were cheering before he spoke. I was wondering why Canadians could possibly be cheering for him...

Italia311
12-01-2004, 08:17 PM
I dunno...maybe to try and make him feel welcome???? or perhaps they are two fACED!!!

HornyPope
12-01-2004, 09:08 PM
The people who watched him speak were special guests selected among Bush fans and supporters. It's not a general admission event. Naturaly they loved what he had to say. The protesters are the exact opposite. They are people who traveled all the way to Ottawa to protest his policies. Obviously, they are angered at his presence.

I'd say generaly the Canadian mood is anti-Bush at about 60-40 percent or so. Probably 75-25 percent in Quebec.

Betty
12-01-2004, 09:27 PM
My only thought was that it wouldn't look very nice for the country if Bush were greeted with a bunch of protestors... since after all the US is going to be the one who gets our back if ever necessary since we couldn't defend ourselves. However, thinking about it, I'm sure he doesn't get much nicer greetings in his own country either... so it shouldn't be that big of a deal.

On a different note, to Sic and WCM, I fail to see how this particular form of protest is at all a productive one. Agree or disagree? I'm pretty sure you'll disagree... but I had to ask.

SicN Twisted
12-01-2004, 09:46 PM
It's productive simply because it makes it prevalent to the media that Bush is not welcome in Canada. Millions of people consider him an illegitimate, warmonging ape, and without protest this sentiment would not be displayed and it would seem as if Bush is respected. Since the media itself is so biased, protestors are a vital way of showing the world how Canadians, or Americans, or basically anyone sane and intelligent thinks of Bush. I don't know what happened when Clinton visited Canada, but I doubt he recieved such a greeting, because of was reletively respected as a world leader.

On a side, I doubt the US would ever need to defend Canada. We haven't engaged in any sort of defencive military action since the war of 1812, and I highly doubt it's gonna happen again anytime soon. The only mild threat is terrorism, but nobody would target Canada because Canada does not have a hostile foreign policy.

Betty
12-01-2004, 09:55 PM
I would like to think so too, but you never know. If anything DID happen, we'd be screwed. You can't say 100% nothing will happen.

I suppose your argument makes some sense, although I still think these people could be doing something MORE productive.

Also, the biased media comment always gets to me. Maybe it's because you guys have Fox news, but in Canada the media is SO left biased. I don't see how anyone could deny that.

A good example would be that you're saying these protestors are necessary to show that Canada is not happy with Bush. Well, do you know what kind of impression I get from the media? I feel like every single person in Canada hates Bush with a passion. I never hear of anybody pro Bush. When in fact there is probably a good 30-40% that support him, that kind of thing is never talked about in the media. Except for the one or two right-wing papers that are not the most respected among news sources.

HornyPope
12-01-2004, 10:08 PM
The treatement Bush recieves is strictly reserved for his administration and his polciies. This isn't an Anti-American protest. Stop labeling it as such, Betty.

As for the biased-Media coment, i've seen you throw this around time and time again and I feel like I have to make a counter argument. So there goes: you're wrong. The end.

Nah, kidding. Your perception of "left" is skewed since you haven't traveled much elsewhere to the world, as I gather from what you post. You've only the American media outlets to compare with Canada; and it's beyond obvious that the former is much to the Right than Canada. Even NY Times will look "conservative" (in the american sense of the word) in comparision with say Globe in Mail (who in turn are known for their right-leaning). But try reading the BBC website for a month. Or maybe Le Monde. Or how about the English translation to pravda.ru. See how the Canadians rank with the rest of the world in terms of their perspective on Foreign affairs. Then come tell me how Left we are.

SicN Twisted
12-01-2004, 10:15 PM
North American politics are completely different then European, I think Betty's speaking reletive to that. I guess Canada's media might be a bit biased, but at least it's bias is more complimentary to the population. The US is about 50/50, and Fox News gives half of our country absolutely no representation (although compared to Europe, the entire United States is aggresively reactionary).

Betty
12-01-2004, 10:17 PM
Yes, I know it is anti-Bush and not anti-America... although a lot of Canadians also make many anti-American comments, which is totally unrelated.

Your argument concerning media bias is good, however, it basically boils it down to relativity. If you want to look at it relative to the world, maybe it is quite right, if you want to look at it in terms of Canadian (not even American) politics, it is left. For example, the media would be much more in support of the NDP than of the Conservative party. But I would agree that it would seem right to those who are left of our left, obviously.

Betty
12-01-2004, 10:24 PM
Sic, not sure if I agree with your media vs population representation idea... cause I'm sure Fox News would give just as much say to the democrats (I'm going to say more) as the other news would give to the republicans...

This could be wrong since I don't really watch it, but I hear there are quite a few democrats involved in Fox News? And for example Fox News covered more of the democratic convention than their more left news counterparts covered of the republican convention? You obviously know better, but you are also biased... but I'm biased as well.... so....

Also, in Canada, I think it is more biased towards the left leaning population overall. Like, even if the conservatives get 40% support (I don't recall the numbers), they won't get 40% the representation on the news, whereas the NDP (maybe 20% support) will get a lot more.

HornyPope
12-01-2004, 10:45 PM
although a lot of Canadians also make many anti-American comments, which is totally unrelated.

Well there's a lot of stupid Canadians. I'm not gonna defend those folks. Just correcting your idea that the protest is against America, which it isn't.


The conservative party enjoys the support of the Canwest group who own nearly half of Canadian media outlets as of few years now. I don't know where you get your numbers from.

Trip Boy
12-01-2004, 10:47 PM
The Bible shows us a way to prove whether or not a person is the Antichrist. Rev 13:18 says: "Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six." That is, the number 666. St. John the apostle, the author of Revelation, was a Jew who wrote in Greek, but he thought in Hebrew.

Betty
12-01-2004, 10:49 PM
Certainly not a reliable source.

I'm basically basing my claims on what news I readily have access to here.

What is owned by Canwest?

Trip Boy
12-01-2004, 10:50 PM
He knew that every Hebrew letter has a numeric equivalent, and that's undoubtedly how the number 666 originated. Gematria is the process of adding up or counting the letters of the Hebrew alphabet in a word or name.

HornyPope
12-01-2004, 10:56 PM
Canwest owns the following newspapers:

http://www.canwestglobal.com/publishing.html

And the following TV stations:

http://www.canwestglobal.com/television.html


I'm surprised you didn't hear about it before. Their CEO used to be Israel (Izzy) Asper who incidently was a big supporter of the Israeli state. Obviously, a lot of anti-Israel or pro-Palestine (or whatever you want to call them) used this against him. They further advanced their arguments by claiming that he supports Bush and his pro-Israel policies etc... I wouldn't know about that. I'm not into speculations. But what I can tell you is a case that caused a big stir among the journalists four years back when Izzy himself wrote an editorial paper in the National Post asking his journalists to either find "credible" proof against Israel on the Palestine issue or "shut up" (don't remember the exact words he used - google it up).

So yeah, there you have it.

Betty
12-01-2004, 11:08 PM
Okay fine, I take it back... Here in Ontario where left-wingers are ultra-concentrated in Toronto... the news is very left. As opposed to the western provinces. Basically the only paper I would really read from the Canwest list would be the Post... which is fairly central I believe... I've never read it faithfully though.

When I think Canadian broadcasting though, I think CBC.

So yeah, I'm pretty ignorant about politics since I never cared about them in the past... feel free to broaden my sheltered views.

HornyPope
12-01-2004, 11:17 PM
The CBC (Canadian Broadcasting Corporation to the rest of you) is publicly owned and operated. They aim to please the general public, particulary those with lower income who can't afford cable/satelite TV, so it's natural they will swing more left than right. Furthermore, since they have a link to the Government, and since the Liberal party has been in power for over a decade now (yeah... its been so long), it's only natural to suggest that some high CBC execs took the liberty to please their Liberal bosses since it is they who sign their paychecks and offer more promotions.

Italia311
12-02-2004, 07:48 AM
This has gone sort of off topic...But do you guys feel that anything had been resolved from this visit??

willferno
12-02-2004, 03:05 PM
yeah that canadians are still going to lick the ass of americans...