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View Full Version : Something I don't understand.



kamikaze
02-24-2006, 06:13 AM
In school, it is absolutely forbidden to force students to pray. Teachers can't mention God in anyway, unless it has something to do with the past or another country. (IE history class, English class) However, they have the right to force students to stand and salut the flag. Yesterday, I was threatened with detention for not standing during the pledge of allegience. I don't support my country. I think it's ruled by idiots who don't know what the hell they're doing. Why should I be forced to show my loyalty to a country who couldn't give a shit less about me, but I can't show my loyalty to God?

Of course, this could lead me into another rant about anti-Christians, but I'll save that for another day.

el_monkey
02-24-2006, 06:17 AM
you live in america :D
in germany we neither have to pray nor to salute to the flag

the_GoDdEsS
02-24-2006, 06:26 AM
Wow, that is really ridiculous. We used to salute to the Russian brothers.

JoY
02-24-2006, 06:29 AM
ugh. that doesn't make *any* sense. they deserve a slap across the face. ;/

nieh
02-24-2006, 06:39 AM
You do have to stand along with the rest of the class just cause...it's kind of stupid. But they can't make you actually say the pledge and if they threaten you with detention for not saying it you can get them in trouble.

killer_queen
02-24-2006, 06:42 AM
This thing has been bothering me since I started to go school. I don't know about America but Turkey is just trying too hard for being secular and prove it. Religious people are afraid to state their opinions. Luckily we still have religion lessons. People try to remove them from the curriculum(?) these days.

el_monkey
02-24-2006, 06:42 AM
In school, it is absolutely forbidden to force students to pray. Teachers can't mention God in anyway, unless it has something to do with the past or another country. (IE history class, English class) However, they have the right to force students to stand and salut the flag. Yesterday, I was threatened with detention for not standing during the pledge of allegience. I don't support my country. I think it's ruled by idiots who don't know what the hell they're doing. Why should I be forced to show my loyalty to a country who couldn't give a shit less about me, but I can't show my loyalty to God?

Of course, this could lead me into another rant about anti-Christians, but I'll save that for another day.

1. america thinks (at least it's government) that it's the best state ever, that's why you have to salute to the flag

2. I don't understand why teachers aren't allowed to mention god, too
on one side they separate church and state, as you can see it here, on the other side "In god we trust" is written on/in every federal building

it's just crazy

nieh
02-24-2006, 06:47 AM
1. america thinks (at least it's government) that it's the best state ever, that's why you have to salute to the flag

2. I don't understand why teachers aren't allowed to mention god, too
on one side they separate church and state, as you can see it here, on the other side "In god we trust" is written on/in every federal building

it's just crazy

They are allowd to mention God. They're allowed to mention religion. They're allowed to discuss what religions people are if that's the way the topic of conversation goes. The thing is, they're NOT allowed to try to convert the students, or force them to pray, or try to say "my religion is right and yours is wrong" or anything like that. If they're able to pull off intelligent conversations (which to be quite honest is VERY difficult in most high schools which is why most people don't even try) then no one will get mad if they mention religion.

kamikaze
02-24-2006, 06:47 AM
1. america thinks (at least it's government) that it's the best state ever, that's why you have to salute to the flag

2. I don't understand why teachers aren't allowed to mention god, too
on one side they separate church and state, as you can see it here, on the other side "In god we trust" is written on/in every federal building

it's just crazy

1. I agree.

2. The seperation of church and state wasn't meant that the government can't mention God. It said that the government can't force on specific belief on its people. Which it doesn't. But people take it completely out of context now and the government lets them. Again, we are run by idiots.

[EDIT]
The government enforces the wrong context of the seperation of church & state.

kamikaze
02-24-2006, 06:48 AM
They are allowd to mention God. They're allowed to mention religion. They're allowed to discuss what religions people are if that's the way the topic of conversation goes. The thing is, they're NOT allowed to try to convert the students, or force them to pray, or try to say "my religion is right and yours is wrong" or anything like that. If they're able to pull off intelligent conversations (which to be quite honest is VERY difficult in most high schools which is why most people don't even try) then no one will get mad if they mention religion.

Someone tried to get a teacher fired for mentioning God at my school before.

nieh
02-24-2006, 06:49 AM
Someone tried to get a teacher fired for mentioning God at my school before.

Whoever that was is an idiot and I'm assuming they failed. But the teacher probably doesn't do it anymore just to avoid the hassle caused by students like that.

kamikaze
02-24-2006, 06:52 AM
He does - the student graduated a few years back. It's completely ridiculous. Have you noticed that any other religion that isn't Christianity can show any sort of religious symbols during their holidays, but Christians can't show a manger scene publicly. Lame.

nieh
02-24-2006, 06:57 AM
Bah? There are manger scenes near where I live for a couple weeks before Christmas. Most of them are in/around the churches, but you can see them when you drive by.

Paint_It_Black
02-24-2006, 07:31 AM
Why should I be forced to show my loyalty to a country who couldn't give a shit less about me


You aren't forced. You are just strongly encouraged.


Teachers can't mention God in anyway

God is mentioned in the pledge of allegiance.

I believe that seperation of church and state is simply supposed to ensure that no one is persecuted in any way for their beliefs. The state is still clearly Christian in nature. The word "God" in the pledge shows that. Christianity has always been a dominant force in the US and I don't see that changing.

I find it interesting that England, which essentially has an official religion, is effectively far less religious than the US.

Mota Boy
02-24-2006, 09:17 AM
In school, it is absolutely forbidden to force students to pray. Teachers can't mention God in anyway, unless it has something to do with the past or another country. (IE history class, English class) However, they have the right to force students to stand and salut the flag. Yesterday, I was threatened with detention for not standing during the pledge of allegience. I don't support my country. I think it's ruled by idiots who don't know what the hell they're doing. Why should I be forced to show my loyalty to a country who couldn't give a shit less about me, but I can't show my loyalty to God?

Of course, this could lead me into another rant about anti-Christians, but I'll save that for another day.
Does your school have a history teacher? If so, have they ever heard of West Virginia State Board of Education v. Barnette (http://www.firstamendmentcenter.org/faclibrary/case.aspx?case=WV_Education_v_Barnette)? Because perhaps you should bring it to their attention that the Supreme Court settled this matter in favor of your First Amendment rights over six decades ago... unless, of course, you attend a private school. Then they can force you to wear underwear on your head and whistle "Amazing Grace" every half-hour if they so choose. But if not... you may want to bring this to their attention.

/wrote a paper on flag-protection legislation and First Amendment rulings

Sunny
02-24-2006, 09:27 AM
Of course, this could lead me into another rant about anti-Christians, but I'll save that for another day.

militant anti-religion people, or "radical atheists" drive me booooonkers.

Endymion
02-24-2006, 09:27 AM
i was going to mention the above. just politely inform your teacher that you do not wish to salute the flag and will remain in your seat quietly while everyone else does the whole song and dance.

ruroken
02-24-2006, 09:43 AM
What's so hard about standing up for a few seconds? It's not like you actually have to act like you love your country or even recite the damn thing.

BREAK
02-24-2006, 10:18 AM
Something I don't understand is why this topic needed to exist in the first place.

TheUnholyNightbringer
02-24-2006, 10:22 AM
I second that.

Suckup.


Something I don't understand is why this topic needed to exist in the first place.

Because she's wondering about the issues of church and State, and also why she should be forced to stand up during the pledge of allegiance.

Silly.

BREAK
02-24-2006, 10:25 AM
She should've posted this in the politics section, if it had to be posted at all. Better yet, how about not discussing completely trite political issues wherein there's nothing new to say about them at all?

TheUnholyNightbringer
02-24-2006, 10:26 AM
The way it was worded, it was less of a discussion; more of needing confirmation of facts.

And it was about her school specifically. As such, even though it's about politics, it can sort of belong in either. But I'm not moving it.

Jebus
02-24-2006, 10:30 AM
You must get some shitty ass education from that school if you can't say God. I have no idea how my history, philosophy, and psychology classes would have been possible without discussion religion every once in a while. How would you go about learning about the middle ages and the Enlightenment period without it?

btw, what grade are you in?

Paint_It_Black
02-24-2006, 10:33 AM
You must get some shitty ass education from that school if you can't say God. I have no idea how my history, philosophy, and psychology classes would have been possible without discussion religion every once in a while. How would you go about learning about the middle ages and the Enlightenment period without it?


I think she covered that.


Teachers can't mention God in anyway, unless it has something to do with the past or another country. (IE history class, English class)

Tomo
02-24-2006, 10:36 AM
In school, it is absolutely forbidden to force students to pray. Teachers can't mention God in anyway, unless it has something to do with the past or another country. However, they have the right to force students to stand and salut the flag. Yesterday, I was threatened with detention for not standing during the pledge of allegience.

Well that's just really sick. Almost as sick, as comunism... But isn't it the same? I mean life in USA today and life in eastern Europe 25 years ago... No free choices, you have to do whatever they tell you. I guess USA isn't as free country as they say. Stupid propaganda...

the_GoDdEsS
02-24-2006, 10:37 AM
Almost as sick, as comunism... But isn't it the same? I mean life in USA today an life in eastern Europe 25 years ago. No free choices, you have to do whatever they tell you.

Did you still experience the regime in school?

Jebus
02-24-2006, 10:41 AM
I think she covered that.
ah, I guesed I missed that part. =\ I assumed you couldn't at all after she replied

Someone tried to get a teacher fired for mentioning God at my school before.
to Nieh's post

They are allowd to mention God. They're allowed to mention religion. They're allowed to discuss what religions people are if that's the way the topic of conversation goes. The thing is, they're NOT allowed to try to convert the students, or force them to pray, or try to say "my religion is right and yours is wrong" or anything like that. If they're able to pull off intelligent conversations (which to be quite honest is VERY difficult in most high schools which is why most people don't even try) then no one will get mad if they mention religion.

WebDudette
02-24-2006, 12:01 PM
What I find absolutely fucking ridiculous is that every morning there is a group of kids that the school organized called the "Christian Athlete Club" and they pray to the flag every morning. But I'am willing to bet that if I wore a shirt with a pentagram or a upside down cross on it they would make me take it off. I'am sure a kid wouldn't get in trouble for a black pride shirt but the second I wear a white supremecy shirt I would be suspended.

Also I haven't stood for the pledge since 7th grade and I've been threatened at least once by each teacher.

Endymion
02-24-2006, 03:40 PM
What I find absolutely fucking ridiculous is that every morning there is a group of kids that the school organized called the "Christian Athlete Club" and they pray to the flag every morning. But I'am willing to bet that if I wore a shirt with a pentagram or a upside down cross on it they would make me take it off. I'am sure a kid wouldn't get in trouble for a black pride shirt but the second I wear a white supremecy shirt I would be suspended.

Also I haven't stood for the pledge since 7th grade and I've been threatened at least once by each teacher.
U R TRU PUNX!

Mota Boy
02-24-2006, 06:11 PM
Here is something you can't understand...




































HOW I COULD JUST KILL A MAN!!!

0r4ng3
02-24-2006, 06:13 PM
Wow, I totally expected that, even before scrolling down.

kamikaze
02-24-2006, 08:00 PM
You must get some shitty ass education from that school if you can't say God. I have no idea how my history, philosophy, and psychology classes would have been possible without discussion religion every once in a while. How would you go about learning about the middle ages and the Enlightenment period without it?

btw, what grade are you in?

I am in 12th grade. Thank god. I've had the same social studies teacher for 3 years now. I'm so sick of him. He's a nice guy, but he can't teach worth shit. But I walk into his classroom with his Christian rap music blasting, his Bible out, and such other things. I mean, I can understand why someone would try to have him fired, but honestly, it's not that big of a deal. The only problem I have with him is that I hate most rap - Christian or not.

Endymion
02-25-2006, 12:57 AM
HOW I COULD JUST KILL A MAN!!!
Put a gun against his head
Pulled my trigger, now he's dead

WebDudette
02-25-2006, 12:06 PM
U R TRU PUNX!

No, Just really lazy.

Rufus
02-25-2006, 12:38 PM
At my school we're forced to say prayers and sing hymns and there is someone who is Hindu and he is also forced to say Christian prayers and sing hymns