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View Full Version : Do you believe in Determinism or Free Will?



Duskygrin
03-25-2006, 11:51 AM
. .

Endymion
03-25-2006, 12:37 PM
neither. i believe the course of all actions is fixed, but can not be determined.

[edit] which i guess falls under determinism, but it's not really in the normal sense of it.

coke_a_holic
03-25-2006, 12:39 PM
I think of it along the lines of this: you have the free will to choose how you get to the determined future. As in, you can either take path A or path B, but they both end up in the same place no matter what. Sort of a combination between the two.

All About Eve
03-25-2006, 12:41 PM
I think of it along the lines of this: you have the free will to choose how you get to the determined future. As in, you can either take path A or path B, but they both end up in the same place no matter what. Sort of a combination between the two.

Are you sure you're not me with a fro?

coke_a_holic
03-25-2006, 12:46 PM
To coke'aholic: interesting... but it boils down to our free will NOT determining the future, which is in fact preordained... so it nutralizes free will, which is suppose to CHANGE the future.. nothing is set, while you're saying that "we have the freedom to choose our fate".
I mean the outcomes are determined, just not the path we choose to reach said outcomes.

AAE: I might be you, we should find out. Soon.

Endymion
03-25-2006, 12:49 PM
But if it is fixed... it would mean there's some sort of causal relation, even only in retrospect, & surely that is determinism?

What do you make of choice then? Only a matter of genetics/psychology/social environment to you? or sth else?

it's difficult to define... the course of all actions is fixed, but it can not be pre-determined wholly by even by the slightest amount of time. the relations, so to say, need not be seen in retrospect, they can be seen as they are unfolding, but even given that information it is impossible to determine any future event to 100% accuracy before that event actually occurs.

and no, the fundimental nature of the universe in which we find ourselves. there is no philosophical argument.

All About Eve
03-25-2006, 12:50 PM
AAE: I might be you, we should find out. Soon.

If it involves sex, I'm in (you).

Dusky, it's like this.

Option A: You go through school, go to college, get a masters degree in some business field, and you're just starting to pay off your loan when your business collapses, you can't pay your debts, and your eventually out on the streets (with other events mixed in of course). You went your whole life without doing anything wrong, yet still ended there.

Option B: You flunk highschool doing drugs the whole time, you can't go to college, you end up living homeless on the streets like you would in option A.

Either way, you end up the same place, just by different paths.

All About Eve
03-25-2006, 01:06 PM
The 'you' is hypothetical of course.

Betty
03-25-2006, 02:57 PM
I just had like a two hour conversation with my housemate about how I think quantum mechanics (or quantum whatever) is a total crock. Well, more specifically some of the interpretations people make about it. Which obviously then leads into the determinism question and the mind-body problem, etc, etc. This was while procrastinating doing my insanely difficult quantum chemistry.

So yeah, my two biggest issues with life as we know it are: (1) the interpretations of quantum theory and (2) free will vs. determinism. It absolutely boggles my mind. It's one of my favourite topics, I love it! But I'm not gonna get into it since that would take pages.

That_Guy91
03-25-2006, 03:10 PM
I didn't read most of the thread, so sorry if I missed something.

Anyway, I believe in free will, but not in a "tru punx, i do wut i want!!!!1" kind of way. I just personally don't think anything in life can be predetermined.

Endymion
03-25-2006, 03:18 PM
I just personally don't think anything in life can be predetermined.
i agree, but free will isn't a logical consequence of a lack of predetermination.

wheelchairman
03-25-2006, 04:41 PM
I know jack shit about science.

However I don't believe there is anything setting my course life, and I do not believe I have a final destination life. Nor do I believe that my life has any meaning and that I will be rewarded for doing all the things I don't like to do.