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View Full Version : What are your veiws on England becoming and Asian society?



number70
12-11-2004, 06:24 AM
I don't mind if they come to our country (England) and work, but alot of Asians come over and think they can live off the goverment's money, and the worst part is they can!

Ilegal immigration is now a serious problem in England, I personally believe that Tony Blair should make imigration ilegal, but then no one would do the the jobs that Asians come over to do, but that leads back the main topic, England is becoming foreign.

wheelchairman
12-11-2004, 06:32 AM
It's could you can parrot your mother's words so well.

If it's a problem of illegal immigration, then why do you worry about the government giving them money? The government doesn't give money to illegal immigrants.

And I would doubt that most illegal immigrants come there just to suck off the teat of the state, that's a lie created by conservatives.

The Talking Pie
12-11-2004, 06:41 AM
A lot of English people leach off of the state too. And if you're an illegal immigrant then you haven't been granted the right to live in the country, hence don't exist, so won't get handouts.

Noodles is gay
12-11-2004, 06:56 AM
The ones that 'don't exist' are the worst - they are the people who drive with no insurance, kill a young boy then only get a fine for it (to use a recent example).

The problem is that the government don't really particularly care about the people who live off state handouts, and there isn’t really that much they can do to stop them either because they will be labelled as racist.

Slightly off topic; people who irritate me the most are the teenage girls who are breeding like rabbits just to ‘outdo’ their sisters (another recent example) and are then given their own house! :mad:

The Talking Pie
12-11-2004, 07:07 AM
Why does the boy being young make a difference? Does life stop being so sacred when you hit a certain age?

It's a risky thing to draw conclusions from what you know without considering what you don't know. That's all I'll say about this topic in general.

Noodles is gay
12-11-2004, 07:34 AM
Age is irrelevant, I merely used a recent example. I could have made one up that, for instance, a uninsured driver hit a whole family, however I felt that a real example would be more appropriate.

wheelchairman
12-11-2004, 09:12 AM
I wonder when you people will realize that isolated incidents can only be used as stupid propaganda, because in reality, statistically speaking, they generally are quite meaningless.

RXP
12-11-2004, 10:50 AM
Asians are fucking scum.

Noodles is gay
12-11-2004, 10:53 AM
I think you just said what everyone else was thinking! :)

Well done, you got guts boy.

Chris
12-11-2004, 06:28 PM
someone's been reading the daily mail.

wheelchairman
12-11-2004, 06:43 PM
I think you just said what everyone else was thinking! :)

Well done, you got guts boy.
haha, you don't know RXP too well do you? He did a good job of showing us where your heart lies though.

Moose
12-11-2004, 07:09 PM
i think immigration at its heart is a good thing...its how a country grows and evolves...but of course you are going to get the slacker (immigrant or not) who feeds off the state...that happens in america too...a russian family bought my old friend's bottom part of the house, then bought out the top part of the house, reconstructed it into one big house and have a hummer in the driveway...on my block ha...having a maxima is a big deal on my block...but they cant simply afford all that from the state, so it is other things, possibly illegal...but, it is bad when anyone, not only immigrants live off the state...that is why welfare is abused and has become bullshit...and an immigrant shouldnt have to come into the country illegally unless he or she has something to hide...so that isnt good for the country because most of the time it is a criminal or a drug smuggler or someone running from their country to escape the crimes they committed there...but america was built on immigration so to abolish it is an extreme step to take...it may be different for england, but i can only speak from my perspective.

Betty
12-12-2004, 12:03 AM
Early this evening we discussed how asians and muslims would take over the western world since the western people have a negative birthrate.

Not sure about this...

All I know is that the universities are booming with asians and some of them are the most intelligent, friendliest, most hilarious people. But I do have a big issue with the language barrier and find that a lot of people have been in Canada a while and can still barely speak English. Just makes it's difficult for me to have a conversation, or develop a serious relationship with them, due to not being able to properly communicate.

Although, two of my best friends are of asian background, but higher generations.

RXP
12-12-2004, 02:12 AM
Yes I am one of those you speak of, good looking, funny, smart as fuck and caring as hell.

However, I have to agree most asians I know are fucking gay. It's something to do with culture. I'm about as western as it gets. But most asians I know in my family are biggots. Extremely racsist, put others down all the time and tons more stuff. That's why I often say to my parents I hate asian culture. It's always all about money too.

But then again I don't really know white/western culture but I'm sure it's not so money minded.

Also I hate it when lots of fundamentalist muslims are in one area. As I've said before it some are safe but a lot aren't. The ones I went to school with, well they had some extreme views but you could have a laugh with them, they were funny. But that's more to do with fusion of culture.

But then again head out of London into smaller areas in the West Midlands like Bewdley and my best friend who can't be racist (!) says "gah I don't wanna hang round you at home cause Indians don't really hang with white people". And the BNP actually get votes.

Interesting....

I thinki the fusion of culture is the ebst. But those who stick to thier routes suck. Like my house mate's mate said about Milton Keynes "it's fucking turning into Pakistan"

Jebus
12-12-2004, 02:18 AM
I don't mind if they come to our country (England) and work, but alot of Asians come over and think they can live off the goverment's money, and the worst part is they can!

Ilegal immigration is now a serious problem in England, I personally believe that Tony Blair should make imigration ilegal, but then no one would do the the jobs that Asians come over to do, but that leads back the main topic, England is becoming foreign.

Am I reading right? Asians from England are the equivalent of Mexican wetbacks in the united States?! :eek: *rubs eyes* Asians are like the smartest and most succesfull people in the states and even more so than the jews. I'm finding hard to believe that they are the one's who are doing the dirty work over there.

RXP
12-12-2004, 02:39 AM
Asians don't equal chinks here. They equal Indian/Pakis.

Jebus
12-12-2004, 02:51 AM
and where do Pakis/Indians stand in the social pyramid in London?

T-6005
12-12-2004, 03:27 AM
Sad that race matters at all....

wheelchairman
12-12-2004, 04:34 AM
Use your brain jebus, all immigrants generally stand at the bottom.

Sexy Panda
12-12-2004, 05:01 AM
Wow, John Howard's mandatory detention policy has never looked as humane as it does now. He's a fucking humanitarian compared to some people around here. Here's to Australia, where the extremists are a woman with red hair who owns a fish n chip shop, and an aboriginal who is a bible basher.

* I am a liberal so you can tell that for me to bash John Howard I really musn't believe in the policy.

The Talking Pie
12-12-2004, 06:31 AM
Sad that race matters at all....

I agree. You'd think people would be able to judge others based upon personal merit (or lack thereof) instead of making generalisations.

Immigrants are no less useless, lazy or dangerous than natives (ha! and that's an issue of extreme immigration as well!). I'd wager there are more white 'pure'-English people taking advantage of the state than anyone else. But you never hear about them do you? No, The Sun wouldn't sell fuck all if they started damning their own citizens. You have to demonise others. How many immigrants get handouts? The ones who are supposed to be here. Why the fuck do others come here then? If there's nothing in it for them. And out of all those countless immigrants, how many cause the problems we complain about? A stupidly small percentage. Now I'm not saying the problem doesn't exist, because there are a lot of the stereotypical immigrants in my immediate vicinity, but Jesus, I don't go off on hate-filled rants of bigotry just because some of them are like that. I mean Hell, most English people I know are drunken idiots incapable of stringing two sentences together, but I don't say that we're all like that, or lump myself into that category.

Just judge people as fucking individuals.

Betty
12-12-2004, 02:59 PM
I [think] the fusion of culture is the [best]. But those who stick to [their] routes suck.

I generally agree with the fusion of cultures thing. Although I'd imagine a lot of people wouldn't because they are very pro different cultures.

But my view is that if you're going to move somewhere you should be prepared to adapt to their culture. You can obviously keep some of your own, but you have to try and fit in. You should come to Canada to be Canadian!

My friend who is maybe 3rd generation chinese feels the same way too. Which is good because he would have the right to say what he thinks about the chinese who do not integrate, whereas I have less right.

I also really want to agree with Dave (which I know from when all the girls went "DAVE'S BACK!") about how we should not even look at people as different races/cultures.

Two things that are difficult with that are the people constantly preaching about the rights of minorities. Whenever you apply for anything here, there is a little equal opportunities section where if you're a visible minority you can check a box and have higher chances of being chosen. Second, people of different cultures who do not try and integrate into a new culture. The fact that they do this makes them so obviously different and segregated that it is hard to judge them simply as anyone else.

Sexy Panda
12-12-2004, 05:13 PM
The fact that they do this makes them so obviously different and segregated that it is hard to judge them simply as anyone else.

The problem is not with them, it is with you.

At least be honest with your views.

Betty
12-12-2004, 05:29 PM
Yup, I'm a racist, you got me.

No, but seriously, I am the farthest thing from it.

I'm just saying that when a bunch of students at school form an asian club, how you can not help but think of them as asian... not that that's a bad thing.

It just makes it harder to not even distinguish cultures in the first place.

SicN Twisted
12-12-2004, 07:59 PM
It's so unfair. Those illiegal immigrants all have such comfortable lives. They're all buying estates and making millions from the British government's oh so generous and extensive welfare programs. Damn I wish I was an illegal immigrant, because I just don't make enough money and I really wish the government would just fund my life. Shit, if only illegal immigrants didn't have government provided top knotch security system, cause then Her Majesty's Secret Service could infiltrate them.

Sexy Panda
12-13-2004, 03:18 AM
Yup, I'm a racist, you got me.

No, but seriously, I am the farthest thing from it.

I'm just saying that when a bunch of students at school form an asian club, how you can not help but think of them as asian... not that that's a bad thing.

It just makes it harder to not even distinguish cultures in the first place.

Don't worry I knew what you really meant, I was really just being pedantic.

---------------

South Park covered this issue with greater intelligence when they had an episode about Americans from the future coming back to find jobs. If you can't come up with something more profound than rednecks yelling "they took our jobs!!" then why bother.

felix_leiter
12-14-2004, 11:29 AM
There are no "illegal" immigrants getting money from the state. There are asylum seekers and people waiting to be accepted into the UK. There should be nothing wrong with them once they've been accepted. If you've got a problem with who the home office is accepting then vote differently.

As for lack of culture fusion being a worry. I find that some first or second generation immigrants tend to detach themselves from everyone else. This is what happens when people drag the culture of the country they've left (i wonder why?) and try to stink up this one with full body coverings. If they were sincere, they wouldnt be sticking so hard to that tradition of their old country, and they'd embrace the culture they've joined, and then become part of the country's culture. Then everyone benefits

By the way, culture has nothing to do with race or any of that. There's no such thing as the British race.

wheelchairman
12-14-2004, 11:36 AM
Why should they embrace a culture that shuns and alienates them?

felix_leiter
12-14-2004, 11:46 AM
Cos they wouldnt necessarily shun and alienate them if there was some give and take + The original culture was there first, and that's the culture they've bought into by moving to that country.

wheelchairman
12-14-2004, 01:38 PM
Cos they wouldnt necessarily shun and alienate them if there was some give and take + The original culture was there first, and that's the culture they've bought into by moving to that country.
If it's anything like Denmark, then they never had a chance to begin with (and knowing England's colonial past that doesn't surprise), immigrants are forced into a situation of poverty because that's where the British economic system needs cheap labor. And historically, people in that area of "social scum" will continually commit crimes and be outcasts, they don't have much of a choice.

Betty
12-14-2004, 01:56 PM
I think we've discussed whether it's an explanation or an excuse before.

I would concede that it's probably harder to integrate into a different culture, cause people can be stupid like that. But I feel like you're putting the blame entirely on the country into which the immigrants have immigrated, and not at all on the immigrants not attempting to embrace the new culture. Both parties are probably at fault, and it shouldn't be that way, but as usual, I'd like to think that if an immigrant truely tries to integrate and has something valuable to offer, they can be accepted like anyone else.

wheelchairman
12-14-2004, 02:05 PM
I'm blond-haired blue-eyed, tall and ethnically Danish. I grew up in a Western society and have Danish values in my family. Yet I'm mocked for my accent, which makes it so intimidating to even speak Danish (which is important don't you think?), when I'm around people who I speak Danish with, I'm rather detached, I find it hard to connect with people and quite honestly am quite scared to say something for fear I'll get that look of confusion that means that they don't understand.

And that's just my own experience. There are also legal things, my mother, a graduate of the University of Stanford can't get a job with that degree (foreign diplomas aren't valid in Denmark), which means people from Cairo, who are educated engineers, would end up having to become taxi drivers, or pizzaria-owners, kiosk owners. Or whatever low-income job is available.

felix_leiter
12-14-2004, 02:07 PM
Well then Britain is nothing like Denmark, because some people in Britain seem to have a problem with immigrants regardless of their social class.

Crime among first generation Britons is minor.
If anything, Britain's colonial past has led to greater acceptance of immigrants from the empire as fellow subjects of the Queen. But all that's in the past.

Some think the immigrants who come here now have no respect for values or British culture already here, this is regardless of class or social condition. The fact they're "social scum" doesnt come into it, the cultural schism is there on all levels.

Those who do enter into poverty have lots of British folk in poverty to hang out with as well. Nowadays there is much greater fluidity in social standing than before.

Betty
12-14-2004, 02:21 PM
The fact that people make fun of your accent is ridiculous. That is the whole "people being stupid" part. (Also, I am mortified of speaking french, because I have been made fun of, and just feel generally very awkard... partly it's my fault though cause I'm just too self conscious... I am also pretty mortified of singing, etc).

The fact that certain degrees aren't valid is a tricky issue. But I understand why it's there, because sometimes the degrees really aren't equivalent. Obviously, improvements could be made to this type of system so that there could be a better way to judge who truly is or isn't qualified. I'd imagine that would be quite difficult to put into place though. Maybe it would come down to the immigrant in question choosing the proper career and place to immigrate to so that it worked out properly? Cause a person obviously has to make proper life choices to be successful in the first place. This only counts when the person has the option of making these choices, but somebody who is able to get educated and get a degree, if able to, should choose to be educated in something that has career options, and if they know they are planning to move, they should figure that out in advance. Of course if something unexpected came up and they had to move, things would be different.

Also, you give your personal experience, which is a very good example. And this illustrates that integrating into a culture can be difficult. However, you still intend to be successful right? You will be able to find a rewarding career, and not have to drive taxis, correct? If so, this would illustrate that people who are able to CAN at least somewhat integrate.

wheelchairman
12-14-2004, 03:09 PM
Basically we agree on the degree thing.

And I don't measure success by monetary means. I am lucky enough to immigrate to Denmark before my education has finished, meaning I can get a degree at a Danish university. My situation is thus different from many immigrants (who often come with families and don't have time to take the extra classes required to make their degree valid.)

And as mentioned before, I am an ethnic Dane, and my family sold our house when we left from America, and since we live in an apartment now, we have a considerable expendable income. So that distinguishes my social class as compared to that of refugees.

Felix, not sure what your referring to. But if you take the group of "social scum" and compare percentage of the people in this income range, of both ethnic British and immigrant, you will find it's the same percentage or very close. The reason crime is associated with immigrants is because they are far more numerous in this class range. And they often come carrying the traumas of their homeland (the kinds of things that can deeply disturb a mind.)

felix_leiter
12-14-2004, 03:53 PM
There's no such thing as ethnic British, and by no means do immigrants equal people of different ethnic origin (eg. Irish immigrants for instance-if people are thinking that way, they're just racist!).
These immigrants in England are by no means necessarily in the under-class, the fact they're not is what puts the spotlight on their culture cagey attitudes, and makes people hate them. If they were in a underclass doing swag jobs, the asian immigrants would be invisible like the eastern european immigrants are.
But the Eastern European immigrants don't bring a culture that includes veils and shariah laws with them, then fight to impress things like headscarfs in to secular instutions like schools.
Immigration problems are not about ethnicity.

wheelchairman
12-14-2004, 03:58 PM
There's no such thing as ethnic British, and by no means do immigrants equal people of different ethnic origin (eg. Irish immigrants for instance-if people are thinking that way, they're just racist!).
These immigrants in England are by no means necessarily in the under-class, the fact they're not is what puts the spotlight on their culture cagey attitudes, and makes people hate them. If they were in a underclass doing swag jobs, the asian immigrants would be invisible like the eastern european immigrants are.
But the Eastern European immigrants don't bring a culture that includes veils and shariah laws with them, then fight to impress things like headscarfs in to secular instutions like schools.
Immigration problems are not about ethnicity.
Don't give me that crock. Eastern Europeans are sent to Western Europe by companies that hire them to work for low wages and beat out the native work force of the country.

Asian immigrants come as refugees. Completely different. And the majority of Asians that arrive aren't wearing the Hijab or supporting Shari'ah. In fact I would be that they start supporting this stuff after living in England for a while.

felix_leiter
12-14-2004, 04:15 PM
What I'm saying is that the eastern europeans come to England are the real invisible underclass, but because they're culture is christian joe public cannot see them and has no problem with them. They can phase into England because they happen have a common cultural base in christianity.

"Asian immigrants come as refugees". What kind of insane RACIAL stereotype is that? Trust me, blud, they're not. They are just immigrants who come here for work just the same as many eastern europeans only, (because of dialect and links between the indian sub-continent through the empire ironically, considering your earlier comment) many Indians and pakistanis might have a better hope of success in this country. They are not, however, "refugees".
But those that do join at the bottom end of the ladder are less likely to succeed because of the culture barrier, which they refuse to drop.

wheelchairman
12-14-2004, 06:30 PM
Do you even know what's going down in Pakistan right now? Uprising in Balochistan (brutally oppressed I've heard), uprisings in Waja (or maybe it's Waha, I am not sure, starts with a W) as well. Pakistan is a mess and Musharaff can only handle it in the way that he was brought up in (military wise.)

While I had forgotten about the specific British conditions, you shouldn't forget that war is happening inside Pakistan right now. In fact I think the Indian Maoists have declared people's war (this is something that bothers me about Maoists, they declare People's War whenever they get enough supporters, then everybody is shot and they have to start waiting again. You'd think they'd learn to wait for popular support.)

And let's not forget all that crazy jazz that happens in the middle east. There is a constant flow of refugees. And workers as well. Either way immigrants have it bad off.

And I'll give you that, people from Asia are more visible. Although the media has used them as focus points for at least a decade I think.

felix_leiter
12-15-2004, 12:00 PM
All that's besides the point. People think that when they (immigrants, not necessarily refugees) get to the UK regardless of their background or parent culture arent doing enough to respect and integrate with the native culture (and I'm not talking about ethnically English culture) whether they be poor, social outcast or not.

wheelchairman
12-15-2004, 12:07 PM
All that's besides the point. People think that when they (immigrants, not necessarily refugees) get to the UK regardless of their background or parent culture arent doing enough to respect and integrate with the native culture (and I'm not talking about ethnically English culture) whether they be poor, social outcast or not.
How many immigrants come as upper middle class? Less than one percent I'd imagine.

felix_leiter
12-15-2004, 12:23 PM
What is this link between monetry status and cultural ideals you keep making? There's none.
The title of this thread is based on racism before actual sense anyway as there are many Asians who are not recent immigrants to England.

wheelchairman
12-15-2004, 12:39 PM
What is this link between monetry status and cultural ideals you keep making? There's none.
The title of this thread is based on racism before actual sense anyway as there are many Asians who are not recent immigrants to England.
I'm saying culture has nothing to do with it. The main problem with racism and hesitation to integrate, has always been the case of people living in the lowest classes.

Where is the link between racism and integration? There are plenty of Brits who don't like England.

felix_leiter
12-15-2004, 12:43 PM
So the fact that there are asians in the lower classes makes people hate them?

wheelchairman
12-15-2004, 12:46 PM
No the fact that immigrants represent a large block of the lower class, and that crime is more common in this social environment, and that the media often exploits the fact that they are muslim or middle eastern to make for interesting media, does.

felix_leiter
12-15-2004, 01:02 PM
A larger block (where I live at least) are eastern european immigrants. No-one hates them. The fact that asian immigrants are seen with hijabs and veils (which are fundamentally against English CULTURE) fucks some people off and so themedia need to report on that.

wheelchairman
12-15-2004, 01:11 PM
Eastern Europeans are almost most certainly not a majority of immigrants (as you said, due to England's own colonial history). I don't think anywhere in western Europe do Eastern Europeans constitute a majority of immigrants.

felix_leiter
12-15-2004, 01:40 PM
Ugh, you obviously have many misconceptions about the social make up of England, the country about which we are speaking.

No, eastern europeans do not make up the majority of immigrants. They do however, make up the majority of those people you termed as "social scum" immigrants, those who form an underclass.

Nowhere near all immigrants to England are an under-class, there are many regular middle class, upperclass people as well.

Those immigrants who came to England via the colonial history are not called immigrants anymore, they're 2nd/3rd generation British people.

What sets these RECENT asians immigrants apart is their culture, not their skin colour or social standing. People hate the protection and preserving of this culture, instead of the usual (and naturally inevitable) bastardisation process with immigrant cultures which intergrates them.

wheelchairman
12-15-2004, 02:09 PM
Ugh, you obviously have many misconceptions about the social make up of England, the country about which we are speaking.

No, eastern europeans do not make up the majority of immigrants. They do however, make up the majority of those people you termed as "social scum" immigrants, those who form an underclass.

Nowhere near all immigrants to England are an under-class, there are many regular middle class, upperclass people as well.

Those immigrants who came to England via the colonial history are not called immigrants anymore, they're 2nd/3rd generation British people.

What sets these RECENT asians immigrants apart is their culture, not their skin colour or social standing. People hate the protection and preserving of this culture, instead of the usual (and naturally inevitable) bastardisation process with immigrant cultures which intergrates them.

And I'm telling you that recent Asians (who are still coming to England due to a colonial past) are living in relative poverty. I've had friends who've lived in England (Pakistani friends) who have confirmed this. It's not nearly as great as you seem to believe.

Sexy Panda
12-16-2004, 01:57 AM
Asian immigrants come as refugees. Completely different. And the majority of Asians that arrive aren't wearing the Hijab or supporting Shari'ah. In fact I would be that they start supporting this stuff after living in England for a while.

Is this that thing where Asians in England means Pakis? That statement seems odd coming from Australia (where Asians are more from the South East). So do you mean people from Pakistan?

Of course there are significant muslim populations in the south east. For example Indonesia. Or in the Philippines where there is a muslim contingent mainly on the southern island of Mindanao (although the Philippines are a very very strongly Catholic Nation). So you could mean all asians. Even in those cases it seems like a strange statement. I guess that's just another difference between Britain and Australia. I'm still curious as to which one you mean (Paki's or all).

wheelchairman
12-16-2004, 05:51 AM
Yeah we mean Paki's, or at least that's what I've meant. Also Indians and others just East of the Middle East.

Sexy Panda
12-16-2004, 06:01 AM
Yeah I thought as much. Crazy European perspectives.

felix_leiter
12-16-2004, 10:43 AM
Wheelchairman, it doesnt matter whther they're poor or whatever, that's what I'm saying. They're disliked because of their culture, not because they're poor!

wheelchairman
12-16-2004, 10:53 AM
Wheelchairman, it doesnt matter whther they're poor or whatever, that's what I'm saying. They're disliked because of their culture, not because they're poor!

I think we are arguing different things. What makes them disliked is the fact the media tells people that dark skinned people are violent and commit crimes.

As for the hijab, you do realize it's wrong for a Christian woman to walk with her head uncovered into a church right?

felix_leiter
12-16-2004, 10:58 AM
But the media don't. Unless the British National Party (the racist party) is considered the media, which it isnt.
And it's not a case of being bogged down in the particulars of Islam VS Christianity (noone really gives a crap about Christianity in England). It's about the refusal to integrate their thing (which happens to be Islamic) into British society that causes the beef because of political correctness protecting it and not allowing it to be bastardised like all "culture" is over time.

wheelchairman
12-16-2004, 11:13 AM
Of course the media does, I get enough British tv to know this.

Watch when you hear about crimes, if it's a white man it's always "an unknown assailant" or something like that. If it's a paki it's either "a foreigner," or "a muslim" "or a man of middle eastern descent" "has just committed a violent crime."

As if that is of no matter for white people.

And again I'll say it, why should they integrate into a nation that doesn't give them equal opportunity? And don't give me that crock about immigrants being wealthy, that is really stupid.

felix_leiter
12-16-2004, 11:26 AM
It's like you can't compute facts. You're talking utter shit. You're just impressing your own little man gets beat down attitude into this vastly more complicated subject. Being English and living in ENGLAND, I feel I have a better sense of perspective of the situation. Perhaps I take certain facts and knowledges for granted because I know what I'm talking about and know the situation on a personal level.

Your example on TV of how they are referenced is stupid, cos it works the other way too. It'll be "A Muslim man has won this, done that yadda yadda"
So the fact they're termed like that is an anti-point.

I think the fact they ARE given equal opportunities is a pretty important one. If they werent, they would hardly be disliked for it. Also why should they integrate into a country that doesnt treat them equally? Cos they moved here specifically they made a choice to come to this country.

felix_leiter
12-16-2004, 11:27 AM
Oh and another thing, white people? It's not just white people who have beef with these particular immigrants, believe me.

wheelchairman
12-16-2004, 11:28 AM
Yeah but I was referring to Brits. Who represent the majority.

But it's nice you prove how not racist you are by referring to Asians and middle easterners as "these people."

The Talking Pie
12-16-2004, 11:29 AM
I agree with WCM, and I live in England.

wheelchairman
12-16-2004, 11:36 AM
It's like you can't compute facts. You're talking utter shit. You're just impressing your own little man gets beat down attitude into this vastly more complicated subject. Being English and living in ENGLAND, I feel I have a better sense of perspective of the situation. Perhaps I take certain facts and knowledges for granted because I know what I'm talking about and know the situation on a personal level.

Your example on TV of how they are referenced is stupid, cos it works the other way too. It'll be "A Muslim man has won this, done that yadda yadda"
So the fact they're termed like that is an anti-point.

I think the fact they ARE given equal opportunities is a pretty important one. If they werent, they would hardly be disliked for it. Also why should they integrate into a country that doesnt treat them equally? Cos they moved here specifically they made a choice to come to this country.
Ridiculous, so now you are stating that muslims are poorer because they are lazier. And that all immigrants are given equal opportunities. Stupidest claim yet.

And when a muslim intellectual anywhere wins or is awarded something, it'll be "Professor of Sociology wins award today" or something. Muslim is never mentioned in a positive connotation.

felix_leiter
12-16-2004, 11:41 AM
Cos the "these people" I'm talking about are not a race. They're IMMIGRANTS! There are such things as British people of Indo/pakistani RACIAL descent. They're not all immigrants like you seem to think they are, hence you're the racist, pal.

felix_leiter
12-16-2004, 11:47 AM
Muslims Muslims? Me and you are talking about muslim IMMIGRANTS
Of course there are always arseholes and reasons for there not being equal opportunities in a particular situation.
People are poor for loads of reasons, not because they're immigrants who happen to be Muslims and the media tells us they're bad and all this shit.

wheelchairman
12-16-2004, 11:47 AM
Cos the "these people" I'm talking about are not a race. They're IMMIGRANTS! There are such things as British people of Indo/pakistani RACIAL descent. They're not all immigrants like you seem to think they are, hence you're the racist, pal.

Ah the Ricki Lake defence. Not gonna work pal, you're the one who referred to Indo/Paki immigrants as "those people" not me. But please, keep trying to show where I am the racist one.

felix_leiter
12-16-2004, 11:49 AM
Did I refer to Indo/pakistani Brits as "those people"? No
Where did I say this anyway, give me the post number.

wheelchairman
12-16-2004, 11:51 AM
#62.

Okay you said "these people" instead of "those people."

felix_leiter
12-16-2004, 11:51 AM
You assumed I meant all Indo/pakistani people cos you have racial misconceptions about who are British people.

wheelchairman
12-16-2004, 11:53 AM
You assumed I meant all Indo/pakistani people cos you have racial misconceptions about who are British people.
Do I now? I assumed you meant Indo/Pakistani because those are the immigrants you keep referring to as being lazy and anti-integration.

felix_leiter
12-16-2004, 11:53 AM
Where did I say "these people" and I'll tell you who I'm refering to, and I'll show you how it isnt an unqualified racial reference

wheelchairman
12-16-2004, 11:53 AM
Where did I say "these people" and I'll tell you who I'm refering to, and I'll show you how it isnt an unqualified racial reference
Post #62. I already said that.

felix_leiter
12-16-2004, 11:54 AM
They're who the thread's about man, I didnt create it

wheelchairman
12-16-2004, 11:55 AM
ah so that licenses the "these people" comment then?

felix_leiter
12-16-2004, 11:55 AM
You first said I said it in post 59 so...

felix_leiter
12-16-2004, 11:57 AM
Yes because I didnt create the thread and I'm trying to work within the boundaries they set, meaning if anyone's the racist it's the guy who started the thread

wheelchairman
12-16-2004, 11:59 AM
ah turns out I misread one of your posts, sorry about that.

and I'm sure the guy who started this thread is racist, England will never become an Asian society.

felix_leiter
12-16-2004, 12:02 PM
I agree I'm certain the guy who started this thread is a racist, and/or very ignorant of his own nation.

Betty
12-16-2004, 03:54 PM
This is such a frustrating thread. I get frustrated just reading your argument.

I think the conclusion should be that, YES some immigrants get screwed over and it is more difficult for them to get well-paying jobs, and therefore they may commit more crimes etc. But ALSO that some immigrants refuse to integrate into the culture even though they have the opportunity, and this makes the situation even worse. Neither one is the absolute explanation, but I can almost guarantee that they are both valid points.

SicN Twisted
12-16-2004, 06:54 PM
Why should they integrate? All they need to do is learn the language for basic communication. Mexican immigrants don't go "I wanna go to America because I believe in enlightenment values, man! I like buying stuff, esay!"

No, people immigrant to start better lives for their families, and it's rediculous to act they have have an obligation to assimilate themselves and let go of their own traditions. Let them keep their cultures dammit - culture is an ever changing force anyway.

Sexy Panda
12-16-2004, 07:06 PM
I think as long as they make a concerted effort learn whatever language is the main one then that's good enough. I don't expect people to start wearing blue wife beaters, thongs, and cold chisel tshirts straight off the boat.

*Thongs as in flip flops (footwear) not g strings.

dirty_magic
12-17-2004, 03:26 PM
migration to england is undertaken by people who feel threatened in their home country and people who are looking for a better life. okey so i understand the refugees but many of the asylum seekers just want to sponge off the government and are a waste. maybe the EU should spend more of its budget on regional policy rather than the common agricultural policy which often doesnt benefit the people who are really needing help

SicN Twisted
12-17-2004, 06:11 PM
If you limies didn't want immigration, you shouldn'tve colonized half the world.

DUNCS
12-17-2004, 06:43 PM
Well all i can say is...
Some things in life are bad,
They can really make you mad.
Other things will just make you swear and curse.
When you're chewing on lifes gristle,
Dont grumble, give a whistle,
and this''ll help things turn out for the best.............and
always look on the bright side of life.............always look on the light side of life.....................

Paint_It_Black
12-19-2004, 05:58 AM
This topic is rascist and stupid. Rascism I can stand, occasionally, but stupidity I can't. I am amazed it has got so many replies.

Hey RXP, 'chink' is chinese, be sure to get your racial slurs right, you wouldn't want to offend someone.

On a side note, why is it that 'nigger' is the only racial slur that is totally taboo? I find it bizarre that it is still fairly acceptable to use all other racial slurs but that one. I love the part in 'Three Kings' (A good movie, watch it if you haven't seen it) when somone calls an Iraqi a 'sand nigger' and is asked to use one of the many other racial slurs that don't contain the word 'nigger' in them. Funny shit.

Oh my god I just said 'nigger' a bunch of times and I'm white. Yes, I do feel weird about it. Funny that socialization has come to this point.

Another side note. Okay it's actually not very connected at all. I watched Bend It Like Beckham and started wondering something. Why would someone from Pakistan or of Pakistani descent mind being called a 'Paki'? Surely an abbreviation is not a slur? Okay maybe it is not nice to be labelled, but if it is accurate it should in no way be demeaning.

Kitten
12-19-2004, 06:17 AM
I guess its what context it is used in. If it is meant as an insult, it will be taken as one, if not...

Paint_It_Black
12-19-2004, 06:26 AM
I find it sad that it can be taken as an insult. If someone pointed out that I was white or English I would not take offence, even if they had some slang term for describing it. Why? Because I am not remotely ashamed of who I am or where I come from. To me, feeling insulted for this kind of reason implies some sort of agreement with the person making the comment. I can see why people would be angry though, since the person making the comment, if used in a derogatory way, is still a rascist piece of shit. But don't be insulted.

Not sure if I'm making sense, I've had a few drinks. I have a point somewhere, but it might be in the bottom of this can, let me check....

wheelchairman
12-19-2004, 06:29 AM
This topic is rascist and stupid. Rascism I can stand, occasionally, but stupidity I can't. I am amazed it has got so many replies.

Hey RXP, 'chink' is chinese, be sure to get your racial slurs right, you wouldn't want to offend someone.

On a side note, why is it that 'nigger' is the only racial slur that is totally taboo? I find it bizarre that it is still fairly acceptable to use all other racial slurs but that one. I love the part in 'Three Kings' (A good movie, watch it if you haven't seen it) when somone calls an Iraqi a 'sand nigger' and is asked to use one of the many other racial slurs that don't contain the word 'nigger' in them. Funny shit.

Oh my god I just said 'nigger' a bunch of times and I'm white. Yes, I do feel weird about it. Funny that socialization has come to this point.

Another side note. Okay it's actually not very connected at all. I watched Bend It Like Beckham and started wondering something. Why would someone from Pakistan or of Pakistani descent mind being called a 'Paki'? Surely an abbreviation is not a slur? Okay maybe it is not nice to be labelled, but if it is accurate it should in no way be demeaning.

Nigger, is obviously more offensive because of it's historical context. Use your brain for a second, every single black person in the US, is the descendent of a slave who was treated brutally by a white man. Those scars are difficult to heal, especially when society still oppresses black people.

And a lot of why it's incorrect to use racial slurs is because of the connotation in them. I'm offensive as hell, I often go to the chinese girl in my class (who is a friend of mine) and say "Chinese penis so small!". She knows I'm joking. But if I said it to a Chinese person who I didn't know, do you think they would laugh? Or what if I yelled Paki to some random Pakistani, would he think I was not being offensive?

And why do you care so much about words? Why not just go with it?

Kitten
12-19-2004, 06:30 AM
I find it pretty sad too, but thats what happens. As for Asians taking over England, I think that the person who started this topic really needs to get a life, or stop looking for scapegoats, maybe both.

wheelchairman
12-19-2004, 06:30 AM
I find it sad that it can be taken as an insult. If someone pointed out that I was white or English I would not take offence, even if they had some slang term for describing it. Why? Because I am not remotely ashamed of who I am or where I come from. To me, feeling insulted for this kind of reason implies some sort of agreement with the person making the comment. I can see why people would be angry though, since the person making the comment, if used in a derogatory way, is still a rascist piece of shit. But don't be insulted.

Not sure if I'm making sense, I've had a few drinks. I have a point somewhere, but it might be in the bottom of this can, let me check....
White people are a majority in society, we got it easy. That's the difference.

Paint_It_Black
12-19-2004, 06:46 AM
"Use your brain for a second, every single black person in the US, is the descendent of a slave who was treated brutally by a white man."

Use your brain for a second and admit that is a silly thing to say. You think no black people have emigrated here since then? But to address your point, I still don't see why their history of mistreatment entitles them to be treated with more respect than other minorites. Some were treated just as poorly, take the native americans for example. And yet I know many people who openly LAUGH about the fate of the native americans while at the same time would be appalled if I said the word 'nigger'. Yes, this makes me ANGRY. All people have suffered, my point is not that saying 'nigger' is okay but rather that all racial slurs should be considered equal.

"And why do you care so much about words? Why not just go with it?"

I'm not entirely certain of what you mean. I don't care about words, that is in a way my point, that people put too much importance on certain words. What I do care about a great deal is hypocrisy and injustice.

"White people are a majority in society, we got it easy. That's the difference."

I see that, and yeah I'd probably feel differently if i was a minority. I'll be the first to admit I have no idea what its like not to be the majority. I just think the whole thing is sad.

wheelchairman
12-19-2004, 06:53 AM
Use your brain for a second and admit that is a silly thing to say. You think no black people have emigrated here since then? But to address your point, I still don't see why their history of mistreatment entitles them to be treated with more respect than other minorites. Some were treated just as poorly, take the native americans for example. And yet I know many people who openly LAUGH about the fate of the native americans while at the same time would be appalled if I said the word 'nigger'. Yes, this makes me ANGRY. All people have suffered, my point is not that saying 'nigger' is okay but rather that all racial slurs should be considered equal.


dah-her no there have been no immigrants since 1865 dah-her.

The majority, the vast majority, of African-Americans are descendents from slaves.

I would assume the reason why no one gets particularly upset about Native Americans, is because we did a pretty good job at killing most of them and then isolating from the cities.

Paint_It_Black
12-19-2004, 06:56 AM
We? I didn't kill any, and I don't feel I should be held accountable for something my ancestors did, just as I don't feel anyone can be seen as a victim based on what happened to their ancestors. But yes, you are probably correct in your reasoning, but that doesn't make it acceptable.

wheelchairman
12-19-2004, 07:51 AM
So you want to be able to call an African-American nigger, because you weren't a slave owner. You just want to be a white man who uses the derogatory term of slave owners for African Americans.

That's the historical reason and just accept it, because really, it's quite petitesse.

Paint_It_Black
12-19-2004, 08:15 AM
Wow you completely don't understand what I said, and I thought it was reasonably simple. In fact, I thought I had taken pains to stress that what you interpreted was NOT what I was saying at all.

Here it is again, since you apparently missed it:

"All people have suffered, my point is not that saying 'nigger' is okay but rather that all racial slurs should be considered equal."

Paint_It_Black
12-19-2004, 08:19 AM
What is 'petitesse' anyway?

Noodles is gay
12-19-2004, 09:10 AM
That's the historical reason and just accept it, because really, it's quite petitesse.

Yes, please explain the meaning of this 'petitesse'. It isn't an English word; the only explanation I can come up with is that it is a cross of French and German. French petite meaning small, and German essen meaning to eat.

So 'it's really quite small to eat'?

wheelchairman
12-19-2004, 09:55 AM
Yes, and I chose to ignore your point because it was unrealistic to force everything equal in semantics.

Petitesse, too small to pay attention to. Not worth your attention. It comes from the french word petite.

SicN Twisted
12-19-2004, 10:34 AM
The only time I'd understand a white person going around saying nigger is if he willingly subjugates himself too an entire lifetime of slavery, racism, and abuse.

Paint_It_Black
12-22-2004, 08:25 AM
AGAIN, i don't think people should say it, but i want all ethnic groups to be awarded the same courtesy as blacks. I don't find this to be 'quite small to eat', or unrealistic in the slightest.

mrtosh
05-22-2007, 07:27 PM
It's hard to blame them really, they come from a virtually third world country and are allowed entry to the UK where thay can receive free healthcare and benefits out of their arses. I still hate their stinking guts though, almost as much as I hate the British Government for allowing this state of affairs to occur unimpeded. You just watch, the number of Paki's in Parliament will continue to rise and before you know it, we'll have a paki Prime Minister, and then the UK will go one of two ways. Either white British people will quietly fade away while Pakis take over the country, the British economy will collapse, the country will fall into ruin and the Thames will become like the Ganges is, basically an open sewer, or there will be anarchy, running battles in the streets and insurrection. The worst pakis are the 3rd generation youths, the scum whose parents came to England in the 50's and 60's and at least worked hard to establish themselves, but whose offspring take their lives and their freedom in England for granted and badmouth the UK any chance theycan. FUCK you you paki cunts, I hope you die in a hail of hot lead you pieces of shit.

Sin Studly
05-23-2007, 12:39 AM
Oh well, at least the literacy rate would rise.

Guerilla Enferma
05-23-2007, 02:31 AM
I think nigger should be said by whities more often. The term melungeon at one time carried a connotation but due to its use in a play, melungeon became a romanticized and self applied term. It's about time nigger lost it's negative connotation as well.

As for the whole Asians taking over England deal, it seems like political karma to me. I find it humorous when any Caucasian complains of a growth amongst a particular minority group. I mean, didn't Europeans come to the Americas and steal native land and dilute if not kill their culture? Did Britain not travel afar to India and Pakistan and subject the natives to British rule?

wheelchairman
05-23-2007, 07:53 AM
Wow I was annoying.

I can't believe I agree with GE that if the only form of oppression that exists for any group is that it gets oppressed by words, then perhaps they aren't truly oppressed. But word taboos are just annoying in general.

I wonder if England survived becoming Asian.

MuddahFukkah
06-20-2007, 05:29 AM
I don't mind if they come to our country (England) and work, but alot of Asians come over and think they can live off the goverment's money, and the worst part is they can!

Ilegal immigration is now a serious problem in England, I personally believe that Tony Blair should make imigration ilegal, but then no one would do the the jobs that Asians come over to do, but that leads back the main topic, England is becoming foreign.
Well, you know, it is very easy...

British people don't want to do the dirty work so they allow foreign citizens to work there for a few pounds... And then, if the number of these foreigners is too high, British people are pissed off because they feel like they are becoming minorities...

Well, I guess that the main source of your troubles is british laziness... No offense...

My advice: limit the imigration, lower the social benefits and the minimum wage... That should work. But the government which does these things is not going to win the next parliamentary elections... Pity. ;)

Not Ozymandias
06-23-2007, 04:22 PM
The Brits should teach them a lesson and emigrate to Atlantis.

JohnnyNemesis
06-24-2007, 04:27 PM
Oh holy shit, people are fucking stupid. I wish I were dead.