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View Full Version : Is Honesty Silly?



Rocky-girl
04-10-2006, 05:45 AM
What do you think is honesty silly?

Vera
04-10-2006, 05:49 AM
Why would I think honesty is silly? Or do you mean, in which situations is honesty silly or unnecessary?

Sorry, but you're going to have to explain yourself a bit.

Andy
04-10-2006, 05:52 AM
If the honesty will ultimately result in me losing out then yes, it is silly.

Sin Studly
04-10-2006, 06:06 AM
Is honesty silly?

Honesty is a valuable tool, for those who are able to make no differentiation between fraudulence and honesty.

Preocupado
04-10-2006, 06:35 AM
I see honesty as a sign of inner strenght.

killer_queen
04-10-2006, 07:45 AM
Depends on the situation. I hate people who insult everyone and break hearts and claim that they are honest. Those ones are silly, indeed.
Normally I respect honest people. Although I'm a great liar and good at fooling people I never need to lie. So I don't have a problem with honesty.

Tizzalicious
04-10-2006, 08:34 AM
I try to avoid making people feel bad. This doesn't necessarily entail lying, it just entails the avoidance of telling the whole truth.

Sure this makes me disingenuous, on the other hand life is too short to make people feel unnecessarily miserable. Unless I am annoyed. Or if I'm hungry.

- WCM

Betty
04-10-2006, 09:53 AM
I've gotten to the point where I may be too honest for my own good.

Preocupado
04-10-2006, 09:58 AM
Depends on the situation. I hate people who insult everyone and break hearts and claim that they are honest. Those ones are silly, indeed.

I think you described sincerity.

Rocky-girl
04-10-2006, 10:08 AM
I've gotten to the point where I may be too honest for my own good.
And if that situation doesn't matter you at all, what would you do?

Betty
04-10-2006, 10:51 AM
What exactly do you mean?

Rocky-girl
04-10-2006, 11:28 AM
What exactly do you mean?
I meant that if the situstion doesn't matter you but you must tell your opinion (for examle argument of your friends and they ask your opinion) what will you say?

honey
04-10-2006, 11:33 AM
The truth, duh. Unless it hurts them, then I'd think twice before I say it.

Rocky-girl
04-10-2006, 11:44 AM
I do the same but from the start I ask them not to offend and I always can tell he reason.

Betty
04-10-2006, 11:55 AM
For other people I'll usually tell the truth if it's important for them.

killer_queen
04-10-2006, 12:01 PM
Not being honest to avoid hurting people is unnecessary sometimes. There's nothing wrong with telling people that you think they are ugly, stupid, fat, etc when they ask you. I don't lie when someone wants my opinion about herself.

honey
04-10-2006, 12:11 PM
I know, but sometimes it's not necessary to tell the truth if it hurts that particular person, if it doesn't have any consequenses when you tell a little lie, and it does have bad consequenses when you tell the truth, I know what to pick.

Rocky-girl
04-10-2006, 12:39 PM
Truth always hurts.

killer_queen
04-10-2006, 12:44 PM
^ this is just a stupid, cliche sentence Tanya, don't believe it. If you don't escape from the truth it never hurts.

Paint_It_Black
04-10-2006, 04:31 PM
Honesty is the best policy.

Of course, everyone knows it's ok to completely go against policy when it suits you and no one will find out.

T-6005
04-10-2006, 04:41 PM
Honesty is the best policy.

Of course, everyone knows it's ok to completely go against policy when it suits you and no one will find out.
Obviously.

coke_a_holic
04-10-2006, 04:59 PM
The honest truth is that I'm a liar.

Come on, someone had to say it.

But yeah, I think I lie a lot, but I generally would not lie unless there was a greater good coming out of it. The ends have to justify the means for me; I'm not a sport-liar. Unless I'm really bored and want to see just how far I can go with a lie.

0r4ng3
04-10-2006, 06:22 PM
The honest truth is that I'm a liar.
*grumble* I once saw something like that on one of those stupid quote t-shirts.

*h8 u*

JohnnyNemesis
04-10-2006, 06:34 PM
There are few things on this planet I hate more than those stupid fucking shirts.

tshirthell.com is the antichrist.

0r4ng3
04-10-2006, 06:36 PM
Yeah, I know, right?

*writes down website*

Rocky-girl
04-11-2006, 03:50 AM
^ this is just a stupid, cliche sentence Tanya, don't believe it. If you don't escape from the truth it never hurts.
Yes, but if that truth very sad, it hurts you anyway and if you know the truth it doesn't save you.

honey
04-11-2006, 09:13 AM
What is there still left to discuss about?
The conclusion is that it depends on the situation.

HeadAroundU
04-11-2006, 02:35 PM
oh, darling...ask your mamushka or papushka first and then make a thread...
...parents are horrible these days...

Rocky-girl
04-12-2006, 04:00 AM
oh, darling...ask your mamushka or papushka first and then make a thread...
...parents are horrible these days...
Thank you, dear, next time I'll. Must I ask them what to post?

the_GoDdEsS
04-12-2006, 04:01 AM
oh, darling...ask your mamushka or papushka first and then make a thread...
...parents are horrible these days...

Don't get involved.

Tanichka, don't listen to him.

Paint_It_Black
01-10-2010, 10:48 AM
So I was thinking of making a thread about honesty. I did a quick search and this came up. It's so old that I was going to just start a new one, but then something caught my eye.


If the honesty will ultimately result in me losing out then yes, it is silly.

I like this post. For one thing, I get the feeling he was being entirely honest. But what I really like is the simplicity and clarity of the answer.

Honesty is silly if you have anything to lose.

But what if you aren't an asshole like Andy? What if you give at least a cursory thought to the happiness of others? Then, I suppose, honesty is silly if it will ultimately result in hurting someone you care about.

What does honesty even have going for it? Honesty provides no benefit that we can't get simply from the skillful illusion of being honest. We want to believe that people don't lie to us, especially people we actually care about. But whether they are actually being honest doesn't matter at all. Only what we believe.

I used to pride myself on being an honest person. But then I discovered it's far better to lie in many situations involving strangers or casual acquaintances. Why bother being honest and potentially getting into an argument with someone you might never see again? You probably won't even need to bother remembering the lie. So why bother being honest?

I lie all the time to people at work. I act like I agree with their ridiculous opinions because it's just so much easier to do so, and better for me. So what if I'm fake as hell? I don't owe them honesty. I'm just there for the paycheck.

Imagine if everyone was honest at all times. It would cause utter mayhem. Why do we value honesty so highly?

But what about people we care about? We tend to want to be honest with them. But is this for their benefit, or just to alleviate the guilt of lying? Perhaps we try to be honest with them to help ourselves believe they are being honest with us. Perhaps, ultimately, everything comes back to the self and there is no such thing as a selfless act.

Someone I know recently made a confession to his girlfriend that has ended their relationship. He thought it was the right thing to do. Now she's hurt, he still feels guilty, and their life together is ruined. Where's the good in that? Perhaps he would have felt even worse if he had to live with the lie, cover it up, and just hold onto the knowledge of what he had done. Maybe. If that is the case, then telling the truth was a selfish act. He has hurt her to make himself feel better. But I don't think he does feel better, because his life is in complete chaos now, and hers too. Honesty did no good here.

Seriously, why do we value honesty? There seems to be a deep belief that honesty is the right thing, and although we all lie we tend to feel bad about it when we do. Why is this? Honesty almost always does more harm than good. Honesty is silly.

Convince me I'm wrong. I'd like to value honesty again. Real honesty, not just the illusion of it.

Go.

Little_Miss_1565
01-10-2010, 10:58 AM
But being actively dishonest is an even surer way to destroy relationships. Withholding the truth at times is probably a kind thing to do, but the act of deceiving someone is kind of a dick move.

PedroACastro
01-10-2010, 11:02 AM
well when it comes to relationships i once told my gf something that turned our relationship into chaos too. it didn't make any of us feel better, but if its someone i really care about i will be honest cause i want the person i care about to know who i am and what i did in life. sure everything would be easier if we'd just lie and everyone think's we're perfect but for some people lying to then like that puts to much weight on my conscience. i agree with lying to strangers though i usually agree with any point they're trying to make just cause i'm not in a mood to argue with them

Paint_It_Black
01-10-2010, 11:06 AM
But being actively dishonest is an even surer way to destroy relationships.

Only if you get caught.


the act of deceiving someone is kind of a dick move.

Absolutely. I'm not a fan of it. But I can't shake the idea that it's the smart choice.

To try and avoid sounding like I myself am a total dick I'll say that in relationships I try to avoid doing anything that would be hurtful to begin with, thus avoiding the necessity of lying as much as possible. But shit does happen and confessing seems to only make it worse.


for some people lying to then like that puts to much weight on my conscience.

So you tell the truth to make yourself feel better, even though it may hurt others.

No offense to you. This seems pretty normal. I just can't accept how it's right, intellectually.

Static_Martyr
01-10-2010, 11:36 AM
I can't speak for the day-to-day routine, but as for honesty in a relationship....it seems to me like the entire *point* of a relationship is to show the other person a side of you that most people don't see, which would require that you're honest about who you are. Sure, you might have occasional disagreements/fights about things, but the point isn't to just have straight-up complacency all the time. Sometimes two people have to clash on certain issues in order to reconcile their differences.

For example, a republican girl who thinks all democrats are some kind of stereotypical left-wing extremist abortionist homofags, who dates a democrat guy who thinks all republicans are stuck-up old rich white fuckers with religious superiority complexes. If they really like each other for who they are, in spite of their differences, then I think it's very possible for them to get past their political beliefs even if they are honest at first. The first time they fight about it, they're going to have to reconcile the fact that they like the other person with the "fact" of the stereotype they had in mind before; they either have to admit that not all people fit the stereotype they molded in their mind, or pigeonhole the person they like into the stereotype somehow. Assuming they give half a damn about the relationship, they'll have to at least have ideas about each other that are consistent --- and that, to me, makes it a positive learning experience. Lying about their beliefs to please each other may work to avoid conflict for a short while, but if they don't resolve them, something will come out sooner or later and it will be disruptive to the relationship.

So yeah....I think a relationship wherein the couple that fights through the differences and comes out with an agreeable resolution (even if there is still disagreement in some places) is much preferable to one where both parties lie in order to achieve the illusion of harmony.

Free?
01-10-2010, 12:10 PM
Depends, depends and depends. The only universal answer you can get from me is it depends and there is no universal answer. Further brainstorming makes me feel awful about how huge cliche it's gonna be (mehh), so I'll stop here.

The only sidenote I'd like to add is that you can lie with using only honest statements and being honest doesn't always mean telling the truth, only what you believe in.

mehhhh

Blitz!
01-10-2010, 12:49 PM
There is no person in the world that can say they don't lie, whether it is work related, social etc: It does happen and is usually called a white lie. It is a lie told not to hurt or offend the other person.

As for a relationship, I do believe that lying should be kept to a minimum and relate to the small stuff (does my butt look big in this type of scenario). If my partner did something major, I would be angry but if they did this, lied about it and I found out later, the hurt would be doubled and so would the anger.

Richard, as for your friend's confession ... I find that completely selfish and he would probably never had been in that position if he never did what he did in the first place. There are boundaries in a relationship that shouldn't be crossed if you are committed to the other person.

PedroACastro
01-10-2010, 12:58 PM
Only if you get caught.



Absolutely. I'm not a fan of it. But I can't shake the idea that it's the smart choice.

To try and avoid sounding like I myself am a total dick I'll say that in relationships I try to avoid doing anything that would be hurtful to begin with, thus avoiding the necessity of lying as much as possible. But shit does happen and confessing seems to only make it worse.



So you tell the truth to make yourself feel better, even though it may hurt others.

No offense to you. This seems pretty normal. I just can't accept how it's right, intellectually.


the thing is it isn't right intellectually thats why (i think) i can lie to a complete stranger without worrying about it but its much harder to lie to a friend or someone we care about. although it makes me feel better to tell the truth about something that i would rather not tell i also feel that person deserves to hear it whether he/she would feel better or not about it (but this also depends on various factors). but like free? said it depends depends and depends on a lot of things

ad8
01-10-2010, 02:16 PM
In my opinion it can be silly to be honest, for example in situation in which you're surrounded by people who might do harm to you and would not get along with your real self.

I think one should always be honest when it comes to real conversations, though. I think it is pointless to think of honesty as an indicator of how much of a good person you are. Much rather I think of honesty as a good way to communicate properly to people you don't know to the extent that you would know when they were being serious and when not.