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Sunny
06-02-2006, 08:46 AM
Ok, I've wanted to ask about this for a while. I don't recall a topic like this being posted before, but if it has, my bad. I'd appreciate it if you let me know your thoughts on this.

Do you think there is such a thing as "the superior gender"? If so, which one and why?

Does one gender posess unique traits and skills that don't exist in the other? Similarly, do you believe one gender is essentially flawed in a way that the other isn't? Are those traits or flaws inborn? What determines them?

Do you think "gender-specific" behavior is determined by biological factors (i.e.: hormones) or is it shaped by cultural factors, experiences and social expectations?

Do you think "masculinity" and "femininity" are inborn traits or are they constructed social notions?

Sin Studly
06-02-2006, 08:49 AM
All I know is that women should be denied

a) Human rights

b) The ability to make 'committees'

Sunny
06-02-2006, 08:53 AM
I think b) would be included in the a). :p but who knows.

and come on, i expected a much more elaborate answer. especially on the subject of gender specific behavior being determined by biology or by social conditioning.

humor me plz.

Little_Miss_1565
06-02-2006, 08:58 AM
Gender is a social construct, no ifs ans or buts about it. Certainly free will and preference play into it, but in terms of what is expected of the two genders it's all sociall constructed, as is any determination of which gender, if any, is superior.

Sin Studly
06-02-2006, 08:59 AM
K, humouring you.


Do you think there is such a thing as "the superior gender"? If so, which one and why?

Socially, males, slowly giving way to females. We had the patriarchy and kept you bitches in your place, now we're giving in to the trend of letting the minorities having everything, and as such we're beginning to give women more rights than we have. It'll still be a while before you're on top of us, but not that long. Biologically, males are more intelligent on the very higher-end genius levels ; which almost no females manage to reach, while the average females are more likely to outperform the average males.


Does one gender posess unique traits and skills that don't exist in the other?

Yes. Men can pee standing up. Women can incubate babies.


Similarly, do you believe one gender is essentially flawed in a way that the other isn't?

Yes, both genders are.


Are those traits or flaws inborn? What determines them?

Whether or not you're born a man or a woman, and how much of an average man or woman you are. A minority of men will have 'female' flaws, a minority of women will have 'male' flaws. We're talking generalisation here.


Do you think "gender-specific" behavior is determined by biological factors (i.e.: hormones) or is it shaped by cultural factors, experiences and social expectations?

The very obvious answer is both.


Do you think "masculinity" and "femininity" are inborn traits or are they constructed social notions?

Again, the very obvious answer is both.

Sin Studly
06-02-2006, 09:00 AM
Gender is a social construct, no ifs ans or buts about it.

No testosterone or estrogen either?

Little_Miss_1565
06-02-2006, 09:00 AM
Yes. Men can pee standing up. Women can incubate babies.

That's a difference in sex, not gender.

Nina
06-02-2006, 09:00 AM
I dont think anybody is able to answer if a gender is superior or not, since we are all biased.

Does one gender posess unique traits and skills that don't exist in the other?

I am not 100% sure, but I think that women have a different bond to their child than men, because they were physically connected to the baby for nine months. Whether it is a skill I do not know, and I am not judging it either. But I do believe that the connection to the child is different...maybe closer.

If a gender is flawed or not cannot be answered imo, either. Because who is going to judge that? What are the criteria?

Do you think "gender-specific" behavior is determined by biological factors or is it shaped by cultural factors, experiences and social expectations?

I think it is a combination of them all. But I certainly believe in the biological reasons... because hormones cannot be denied.

Little_Miss_1565
06-02-2006, 09:02 AM
No testosterone or estrogen either?

Again with the sex difference, not gender difference.

Sunny
06-02-2006, 09:04 AM
Whether or not you're born a man or a woman, and how much of an average man or woman you are. A minority of men will have 'female' flaws, a minority of women will have 'male' flaws. We're talking generalisation here.

Justin, you mention "average man" and "average woman", and also "male" and "female" flaws. What is the average man like? And the woman?

what would be a typically female flaw and a typically male flaw?

Sin Studly
06-02-2006, 09:06 AM
That's a difference in sex, not gender.

I'm aware that 'gender' is a social construct, and set apart from biological sex. Sunny, however, isn't ; that's why she asks about hormonal difference in her question. I chose to answer her questions as she thought they were being asked, rather than dwell on semantics and technicalities.


Justin, you mention "average man" and "average woman", and also "male" and "female" flaws. What is the average man like? And the woman?

what would be a typically female flaw and a typically male flaw?

Obviously we're going into the realm of generalities and commonly accurate stereotypes here, so I'm sure you know the answers already.

nieh
06-02-2006, 09:08 AM
There are no traits I can think of that are absolutely exclusive to one sex, but there are ones that are much more common in one than in the other. Both hormones and culture play a part in it, but I'd imagine most of it is hormonal because they so closely resemble similar traits in other mammals that don't have the same sort of "culture" if that word really works for them. Similar answer with the whole "masculinity" and "femininity", it's mostly natural and culture only plays a small part in it.

The whole "superior gender" thing I don't agree with but I do think there are some things where one gender is generally better than the other. I'm at work now so I can't be bothered to put any more thought into finding examples at the moment but stupid little things like handwriting. Girls in general have better handwriting than guys. An average girl normally can draw better than an average guy. There are better examples of this but my mind is going numb right now so this is all you're getting.

the_GoDdEsS
06-02-2006, 09:10 AM
Superior gender is obviously male. Both physically and traditionally in society.

I don't think the traits are unique and male or female only. Maybe we only possess similar ones up to a certain level. And some traits are predominant in males, some in females. Just like Justin pointed out the flaws. I think that sums it up perfectly.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_differences#Psychology
Wiki has some observations.

There are also too many differences in communication. But I don't feel like analysing that now. I just find myself favouring the male gender since I don't like the majority of women.

Tired_Of_You
06-02-2006, 09:16 AM
Superior gender is obviously male. I just want to point that it's not the case in all societies.

FauxElitist
06-02-2006, 09:18 AM
Are you going to support your findings, Professor?

Sin Studly
06-02-2006, 09:33 AM
I just want to point that it's not the case in all societies.

The Gynocracy of Lesbos Island was a long time ago.

nieh
06-02-2006, 09:36 AM
Dear Simona,

Your new avatar raises the level of male hormones in my body.

-Josh

the_GoDdEsS
06-02-2006, 09:42 AM
Thank you, I'm honoured to be reinforcing masculinity like that. :P

Sunny
06-02-2006, 10:09 AM
I dont think anybody is able to answer if a gender is superior or not, since we are all biased.

well, I just wanted the biased opinion, hehe.



Do you think "gender-specific" behavior is determined by biological factors or is it shaped by cultural factors, experiences and social expectations?

I think it is a combination of them all. But I certainly believe in the biological reasons... because hormones cannot be denied.

well, i'm talking stuff like... liking pink in women. being emotional in women. enjoying shopping in women. not wanting to cry in men. etc. some people actually believe that women are insecure because of their hormones.. i wanted to see what others thought.

nieh
06-02-2006, 10:16 AM
well, i'm talking stuff like... liking pink in women. being emotional in women. enjoying shopping in women. not wanting to cry in men. etc. some people actually believe that women are insecure because of their hormones.. i wanted to see what others thought.

With stuff like guys not wanting to cry it's a mixture of both. Culture does play a role but it's there right from the beginning. I saw some video where they studied this. They put children in a glass playpen and had the mother walk away. The majority of girls would sit there and cry until the mom came back. The majority of boys would try to break the wall down or climb over it. There were exceptions but it was consistent something like 80% of the time if I remember right. There of course is the cultural stigma that guys are stronger and aren't supposed to cry so that does have an effect (especially during teenage years), but it's something that's normally there from birth to some point.

Sin Studly
06-02-2006, 10:34 AM
some people actually believe that women are insecure because of their hormones.. i wanted to see what others thought.

Everyone is insecure. Women are emotional and show it because of their hormones, and because they're socially allowed to. Men are treated as half-a-fag if they follow suit, and it doesn't really suit our natures to be crying bitches all the time.

But yeah, insecurity is a constant trait found in everyfuckingbody.

Sunny
06-02-2006, 10:44 AM
nieh, how old were the children in question? surely they must've been old enough to walk and attempt to climb, which means they've already been exposed to at least what.. 2 years of human interaction? i've seen many mothers scold their VERY young male children for crying because they are boys, and not mind whiny/pouty behavior in girls.

i doubt the experts could honestly say the participating children haven't already been exposed to a good amount of social conditioning.

nieh
06-02-2006, 11:02 AM
Probably about the 1-2 year range. I'm sure you're right about some parents scolding their kids and having double standards and the kids having some other social conditionings by that point but I'd be surprised if that happens often enough to be the cause of the 80% consistency. Although I might just be stupid for having more faith in the average parent than I should but the fact that there are similar differences in traits in males and females in a number of other mammals still makes me think hormones are the primary cause.

Mota Boy
06-02-2006, 12:34 PM
One of my roommates accidentally took a women's studies class this semester (The teacher had renamed it something like "Sex in Rock") and he mentioned an anecdote from the teacher, who had tried very hard to raise her daughter in a gender-neutral environment, no having a TV in the house, keeping her away from gender-specific toys and influences, etc., and how she was starting to notice her daugher, despite that, take on very feminine qualities, causing the woman to rethink her opinion on the role of society in influencing gender.

In my opinion, there are obvious biological differences between the sexes, reflecting slighting different evolutionary paths. The forces dominating what made a successful man and what made a successful woman ("successful" defined as surviving and reproducing) were a bit different. Physical differences reflect (or perhaps even helped bring about) emotional differences, and I think that they're real.

Now, I don't really feel like naming them, because there are many, they're subtle and I haven't put a ton of thought into it. Mainly, I think men have a slightly higher tendency to do X, while women have a slightly higher tendency to do Y. Modern culture reinforces and intensifies these differences, in some instances perhaps even creating artificial ones, but they do exist.

nieh
06-02-2006, 12:40 PM
Mainly, I think men have a slightly higher tendency to do X, while women have a slightly higher tendency to do Y.

The phrasing in this made the genetics fan in me lolz

wheelchairman
06-02-2006, 01:05 PM
Generally believe that the genders are relatively equal. That the two hormones most certainly create differences in behavior, but not too much. I certainly don't believe in the superiority of one gender. However I believe that the course of feminism has created an inequality in the educational system which puts the male gender at a disadvantage. Which has spread the misconception that was women are naturally smarter. And it's just fucked up.

Paint_It_Black
06-02-2006, 06:09 PM
Do you think there is such a thing as "the superior gender"? If so, which one and why?

That would depend on exactly how you're defining "superior". But in general, my answer would be no. It could be argued that males are superior at passing on their genes, because they could theoretically father hundreds of children each year. But they couldn't do it without women, so that really negates any superiority. The same probably goes for everything. Men and women need each other.


Does one gender posess unique traits and skills that don't exist in the other?

I can't think of any traits or skills of one gender which the other lacks completely, though I think there does tend to be a difference in aptitude for certain things. I've glanced at studies regarding this, but can't recall anything specific. But if I remember correctly, male and female brains operate quite differently when it comes to certain things. I think Claibe's comments offer a pretty good explanation. And of course there are obvious physical differences, that certainly don't need discussing.


Do you think "gender-specific" behavior is determined by biological factors (i.e.: hormones) or is it shaped by cultural factors, experiences and social expectations?

Do you think "masculinity" and "femininity" are inborn traits or are they constructed social notions?

The answer to these general questions is both. We could pick out specific behavioral patterns and try to decide whether they are predominantly attributable to nature or nurture, but I'd generally rather leave that to people willing to make it their life's work.

Prahv, Spires of Order
06-02-2006, 06:14 PM
Okay, I guess its time now to give you all the important gender-talk. Pay attention kiddies.





Girls cry when you punch them.