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View Full Version : EU waste of money?? or the best thing ever to hit europe and the world???



pathfinder
06-23-2006, 07:38 AM
I think its a waste of money.
And it made europe an even more dangerous place.
If a terrorist fuck crosses the border of any one of the EU nations there is no one to stop him from driving on to any of the other EU nations.

Look at londen or Madrid.

wheelchairman
06-23-2006, 08:30 AM
I don't follow your logic. How did the EU make it easier for terrorists to move around Europe? As far as I understand it London and Madrid were done by two separate groups...

My problem with the EU is that no one in the EU knows that they live in the EU. Actually that's my problem with people who care. They forgot about the fact that the actual citizens of the EU can't feel a difference between a government in Bruxelles, than a government in Copenhagen, for example.

pathfinder
06-23-2006, 08:34 AM
good point

but what im trying to say is that as soon as your in the EU your free to cross any border you like because all the borders are open.

wheelchairman
06-23-2006, 08:59 AM
good point

but what im trying to say is that as soon as your in the EU your free to cross any border you like because all the borders are open.
Well then you are wrong.

Iddy
06-23-2006, 09:17 AM
Er, passport control, immigration, customs?

You really do live in your own little world; or is it that you haven't been outside your own country?

pathfinder
06-23-2006, 01:46 PM
well for example:

I live in the netherlands a few weeks ago i had some stuff to do in germany.
There was no one checking us at the border.
Belgium same story France Spain Portugal and every other EU nation.
What im saying is that there is no one checking the borders.

But the Thread is about what you think of the EU

Iddy
06-23-2006, 04:19 PM
Well, i don't know what to say to that. Every time i've travelled in the EU i've had my passport checked... even from Ireland to England.

EU. From my limited knowledge, it started for trade reasons right? Correct if i'm wrong, i dont claim to be an expert. I don't really disagree with it; but I don't think a completely unfied europe will work.. too many differences. As long as it accepts its limitations.

Again; i know very little. To tell you the truth, i'm not that interested and I know I should be.

clokey43
06-23-2006, 04:24 PM
The EU has it's good and bad points as far as I can see. For example a good point is it's enforecment on Human Rights. It's ensure's the lives of the people living in the Countires that are members have basic human rights at least. However, a bad point in my opinion was the fact it was set up inorder to stop dictatorship but seems to have taken on the role itself.

However, answering whether it is a waste of money or not isn't as simple as that. Once a Country is in the EU they are pretty much stuck. Reasoning of this is if they did leave the EU would impose such high rates on importing and exporting that the Country wouldn't be able to afford it and would lose its economy.

However, in my opinion the EU at the moment is a waste but if some of it's issues were looked and a refined then it would be a hugely powerful thing to be part of. So I suppose I'm saying it has potential.

EDIT : The UK and France at least have strick passport contol. However, if you drive from france to Germany for example you wont be checked mainly because you a) live in Europe or b) have had your passport checked at your entry location.

JoY
06-23-2006, 05:30 PM
I wanted to give an example & then suddenly remembered I had Switzerland in mind. can you say "NEUTRAL", lolz.

the EU actually forms a safety net. you won't have me cheering & jumping on chairs that we're all part of this big happy union, but saying it'd bring our safety in jeopardy, nah. maybe our culture, our individuality, our independence, but those were illusions anyway. it was time for them to be crushed. softly & gently, but still, somewhat crushed.

& as far as I can remember, my passport was never checked when going to Germany. they randomly pull over people sometimes for checks, they pulled us over a couple of times while crossing the border, but I can't remember any other policy.

Sin Studly
06-23-2006, 08:48 PM
The EU is trying to stop the sterilisation of the Roma.

Therefore, I'd like to see the EU choke and rot in hell.

the_GoDdEsS
06-24-2006, 01:55 AM
They intervene too much. And certain things just cannot and will not be changed here.

Mota Boy
06-24-2006, 03:25 AM
If a terrorist fuck crosses the border of any one of the EU nations there is no one to stop him from driving on to any of the other EU nations.

Look at londen or Madrid.
London and Madrid were both home-grown operations. They would've happened regardless.

pathfinder
06-24-2006, 09:56 AM
thats true but still.

If Al Qaida(or any other group for that mather) would cross the border at spain.
They could drive on to Paris,Brussels,Berlin and Amsterdam.
And god forbid what happens after that

Mota Boy
06-24-2006, 12:31 PM
But that hasn't happened yet. That's like saying "If Timothy McViegh crossed into Spain, imagine what could happen!" It's a bit ridiculous to say that a system which has greatly aided your country economically and thus benefitted the lives of millions of your citizens could hypothetically possibly maybe hurt a very few of them when the main threat lies in homegrown terrorist attacks.

Honestly man. Is there anything more I need to say than "be rational"? Why not scream that a comet may very well wipe a European country off the map and cry that they're not bankrupting their economy to prevent against such a devastating celestial collision? Because it's fucking silly to negatively influence the lives of millions of millions of citizens just to protect against the remote, but real, possibility of death. Live logically, not in fear.

pathfinder
06-25-2006, 03:25 AM
Aided my country's economy??? are you kidding.
We Pay the most to the EU every year.
At least that was the case the last couple of years.

But your right.
If terrorists realy want to hit a city like paris they would.
regardless of any high guarded borders.

wheelchairman
06-25-2006, 03:50 AM
Aided my country's economy??? are you kidding.
We Pay the most to the EU every year.
At least that was the case the last couple of years.

Every country in the EU seems to believe this. You are probably wrong. And Holland is certainly not "poor".

pathfinder
06-25-2006, 10:18 AM
thats true.

Every year we pay 2000 mill in taxes.
Where the fuck dose money go?????
beats me

wheelchairman
06-25-2006, 10:27 AM
thats true.

Every year we pay 2000 mill in taxes.
Where the fuck dose money go?????
beats me
I've studied accounting. Here's a hint. Go to the government webpage and check out the area for budgets.

The Talking Pie
06-25-2006, 02:36 PM
Here's a crazy theory; in democracies, the people run the country. So the money kind of needs to come from the people. Hello taxes!

And culture issues be fucked. What we need is a single-state world. That'd solve every problem there is. No one's ever advocated destroying centuries of history and tradition. You crazy, paranoid nationalists, you.

Outerbands
06-25-2006, 03:43 PM
A prosperous Europe at the cost to developing nations, while the ECJ litigates on a 'human right' to move across borders so yuppies can take their holidays in the south of France, people die in Africa due to sugar policies, CAP etc.

TheUnholyNightbringer
06-25-2006, 08:07 PM
As has already been demonstrated, that border thing is a crock of shit. So no more on that.

Tax has gone up, sure. Can you give me some figures that directly relate that figure to the EU? Can you give me some statistics?

I can give you the fact that inflation has dropped 3% in the Netherlands since May 2002 (http://statline.cbs.nl/StatWeb/table.asp?STB=G2:D&LA=en&DM=SLEN&PA=70145eng&D1=0,4&D2=0&D3=a&LYR=G1:0&HDR=T). Really, before you make a decision, look into the EU. Don't believe the Euro-sceptics, look into it yourself.

Outerbands
06-26-2006, 02:38 AM
Tax has gone up, sure. Can you give me some figures that directly relate that figure to the EU? Can you give me some statistics?


VAT is a European Union Tax. Member States have no choice but to charge it on all products. It is currently the second largest tax receipt for the revenue, behind income tax. It is also one of the most unfair and regressive taxes.

wheelchairman
06-26-2006, 03:02 AM
VAT is the Value Added Tax. It's simply a sales tax. And I don't believe that the EU forces it on anyone. Since it's different in every country. I believe it's just a denomination for sales tax. However I am not certain about that.

EDIT: on closer research I am wrong. How I believe that certain essential goods are not taxed, or calculated at 0% VAT. And countries are able to choose at what percentage they wish to tax. Denmark choses 25% which is the maximum one may choose.

HisHolinessSatan
06-26-2006, 12:25 PM
I think its a waste of money.
And it made europe an even more dangerous place.
If a terrorist fuck crosses the border of any one of the EU nations there is no one to stop him from driving on to any of the other EU nations.

Look at londen or Madrid.

Idiot. I mean, Jesus. Idiot.

pathfinder
06-27-2006, 01:00 AM
dont just go around calling people idiots.
Give reasons wy you call them idiots.

;)

Italia311
06-27-2006, 01:03 PM
I am not a fan of the single currency.

the_GoDdEsS
06-27-2006, 01:10 PM
I'm not a fan of anything. Except for the fact that I can travel without a visa and lots of paperwork problems.

Italia311
06-27-2006, 01:15 PM
One year Im in Italia....the next time I got back, and my money is shit.

the_GoDdEsS
06-27-2006, 01:20 PM
Hah, yes. I have some euros in bank from one of my stays in Germany. And I'm kinda waiting for the bestest opportunity to exchange it.

What will be a problem with the common currency is not just the economics but think of the psychological impact on people. Especially the people of poorer countries. Right now our currency is something like 1 EUR = 38 SKK (did not check, just illustrating). Imagine people getting used to a whole new system. You go into the supermarket, see some small thing costs one fucking euro. Whoa, sounds way cheap, doesn't it? It's number one, after all. Convert and you freeze. I can't imagine it and I don't want it.

Italia311
06-27-2006, 01:38 PM
When Italia went euro, the Lira got raped. As I said, the money was shit. My family has banking in Italia, and dont know what happend to that. But I always brought Lira back to Canada with me, and It was nothing. Even my Canadian money in Italia was shit. Before, when I would exchange Canadian to Lira, it was good.

the_GoDdEsS
06-27-2006, 02:13 PM
We've been getting raped for years. The currency at the time of the change is most likely to be in disadvantage. So bah!

wheelchairman
06-27-2006, 03:31 PM
Well if you owned a store, and were going to experience a switch in currency and needed to exchange the rates. The natural tendency would be to round up.

Now say you were employing people, and needed to pay them. Now it makes sense to round down.

Man it sucks to go through a currency switch. A person my age who works in Germany for example, makes about half of my salary an hour. And I do shitty temp work.

pathfinder
06-28-2006, 02:48 AM
the gulden got raped as well.

2.10 gulden is 1 euro.
But something that used to cost lets say 10 gulden now cost 7.50 euro.
But if you made lets say 10 gulden per hour you now make 4.50 euro per hour.
So the price of everything went up but the pay stayed the same.

JoY
06-28-2006, 05:03 AM
I didn't even know people were still arguing about that. the guilder?! my goodness. do you still multiply every price times 2.10 & calculate what it WOULD'VE cost without the introduction of the euro?

you can't even compare those days to these days, now we have the euro. it's so many years back in the past, inflation & other factors would've changed the value of the guilder anyhow. there's a major advantage in all having the same "coin". it's made the international European economy a LOT easier. I understand you'd rather still pay 25 cents for a gumball, but I'm afraid you'll have to start thinking on a larger scale.

every economy has to recover after a major change, no way around it. our population & that of every other European country that now pays with euros will have to adjust to this new way of paying & to the new prices. do you think our economy is hurting because of this? it looked like it at first, didn't it? people were buying less, were complaining, the economy went down... then most people got used to it, went to the stores again to shop for clothes & now no one even talks about it anymore. (except you, clearly) our economy is clearly recovering & it'll recover to the point it's better than it ever was.

pathfinder
06-28-2006, 08:22 AM
its true though

JoY
06-28-2006, 09:10 AM
that's your argument? "its true though"? I just typed out a post with arguments that proved the euro isn't to blame for any economical shite & you conclude that your argument is "true though"?

*SIGH*

pathfinder
06-29-2006, 04:22 AM
that's your argument? "its true though"? I just typed out a post with arguments that proved the euro isn't to blame for any economical shite & you conclude that your argument is "true though"?

*SIGH*

sorry
i could not think of anything better.
Your agrument got me speecheless.

T-6005
06-29-2006, 05:22 AM
sorry
i could not think of anything better.
Your agrument got me speecheless.
Thank you for reminding me of why I never post in Politics.

pathfinder
06-29-2006, 06:37 AM
your welcome

??i guess??

ofsmurfsandpixies
06-29-2006, 01:22 PM
i think it sucks.but,its our only chance if the EU turns into 1 big country,when chinas economy overtakes america i reckon theyll invade and our only chance is banding together

JoY
07-02-2006, 08:56 AM
sorry
i could not think of anything better.
Your agrument got me speecheless.
aw, you may rush into discussions without thinking through your posts, but a man - especially a DUTCH man - admitting he's defeated/wrong/sorry/speechless/or whatever remotely falls under that catergory, is pretty adorable.

JoY
07-02-2006, 08:57 AM
i think it sucks.but,its our only chance if the EU turns into 1 big country,when chinas economy overtakes america i reckon theyll invade and our only chance is banding together
what the kcuf?!

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!

pathfinder
07-03-2006, 03:40 AM
aw, you may rush into discussions without thinking through your posts, but a man - especially a DUTCH man - admitting he's defeated/wrong/sorry/speechless/or whatever remotely falls under that catergory, is pretty adorable.


i just figured i had to act like a grownup for once in my life and admitt i was beaten.
thats kinda new for me i usually never admitt that i am beaten ,wrong or that is was my fault.

i think im changing !!!O MY GOD!!! im growing up.

Sunny
07-03-2006, 05:36 AM
talking purely in emotional terms, i like the idea of Europe being one entity of sorts, and being a "citizen of the EU". but aside from the "feelgood" factor...

i have nothing against the euro as currency as long as people's salaries become proportional to the prices of merchandise here, which is not the case right now.

i think my country, along with other post-communist countries, needs help and quick. there's corruption, the prices are skyhigh and the salaries are low, the healthcare system is fucked up beyond recognition, and that's just the tip of the iceberg. someone needs to intervene and clean shit up. the EU won't be a quick fix and anyone who would expect it to is just plain naive... but it might provide a model for changes. i can already see some improvements in my region (krakow, south of Poland) solely thanks to the EU... and my mountain area is developing rapidly after having received EU funding.

so yes, i'm all for it. all the "for" arguments i can make might be naive and wishful thinking.. but, eh, we'll see how it'll all turn out. and my country certainly isn't better off on its own.

something else that made me quite glad... recently Poland got bitched out in the EU parliament for its racist, xenophobic and homophobic leanings. thank fuck someone has the power to say it and direct attention to the problem. fucking pwned.

wheelchairman
07-03-2006, 02:58 PM
In Poland, the majority of Anti-EU folks are nationalists?

In Denmark they are, with a small minority of left wing people. And a huge majority of people who don't care.

Sunny
07-04-2006, 12:50 PM
yes. and crazy ultra-catholics who think the EU is filled with baby-killing, butt-fucking, euthanasia-practicing, drug-taking, nigger-loving gay homos.

wheelchairman
07-04-2006, 04:39 PM
Wow. I can't believe I forgot those...