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MindlessSelfIndulgent
07-05-2006, 08:47 AM
Heeeello.

I have/had this friend. Mika. He's very mysterious and his personality changes all the time, from really sweet, to a fucking bastard. I've met him through the internet. I've seen him 5 times throughout the last year. When we're having a nice conversation on msn, he suddenly turns into an idiot and start calling me names and generally just tries to hurt my feelings. It worked at first, when we started talking. But I know he doesn't mean it, and it's just because he himself is having a bad day or something. Meh, I don't know. When we've met up in real life, he's always been really nice, and we've had a really good time.
We met up again a few weeks ago in Aarhus, to go out partying with my cousin and a few other people. It was really fun. My cousin and friends liked him too. We then went down town and was talking outside some bar.
Suddenly he just start calling me names again, and he's being a total ass, saying I'm a fucking moron, an idiot and that I'm fucking boring and that he's fucking bored. I stay calm and just say that I think he should go home, if he's bored. He ignores me. I say it again, because I don't think he should come to visit me and then just treat me like that, and ignore me. I say it again, and that I can't help he's bored. Do something about it, or go home. He says shut up, and we start to argue. I again say that he should just go home, there's no reason for him to be here when he's bored and being an idiot.
He then spit me in the face. I get reaaaally angry and I drag him around in his collar yelling "what the fuck is wrong with you?". I push him to the ground and tries to start a fight with him. To have someone spit you in the face is the worst fucking thing. And he wouldn't give me an explanation. "You're fucking irritating".
Pfff. Tell me that and fuck off, instead of doing something like that.
I follow him to the bus, still trying to get some explanation. "You don't know my reason for being the way I am, you can just mind your own business". No, I can't, not when you spit me in the face for no reason. Not when I've been nice to you and we had a really nice time, and you just flip out and pull shit like that. "What the fuck do you want? Do you wanna come home with me, or what?". I just say yes, so I can walk with him for a while longer, still trying to get some answers. He then take my hand like nothing has happened. Pfff. I yell "What the fuck is this about now? What is wrooooong with you?". Blah blah blah. Then we get to the bus stop. I'm being an idiot and wanting to start a fight, just to get some kind of reaction from him. Saying all sorts of crap about his family, because I know it will hurt him. Blah blah blah. He then hits me in the face and kicks me in the face. Aaand, I go home crying to my cousin. I knew he would do it, and I didn't care. I don't care about that, that was my own fault. It was that he spit me in my face, that was fucking unacceptable.
I said to myself, that I never wanted anything to do with him again. I deleted him on msn and I havent talked to him since. Until I talked to my shrink about it. She said that if I wanted, I could start talking to him again. Though I shouldn't expect him to change. And I should keep my selfrespect. He'll probably hit me again, but that's not because he doesn't like me. It's because whenever something is good, he has to ruin it. Because blah blah. You know. Buuuut, what do you think? Should I forgive him (eventhough he won't apologise), and just take it from there? Oooor, would that make me too much of a little dog he can just kick around?
I know it probably sounds silly, that I want to talk to him again. But he's normally a really nice person aaaand, he's interesting. And I feel sorry for him. Maybe. And I want to get inside his head, eventhough I know I can't. Aaand, blah.

I'm sorry for not making sense. Spelling, grammar, past and present and not being able to make myself clear in writing in general. Thank you.

Bumbumbumm.

:confused:

wheelchairman
07-05-2006, 08:54 AM
So let's get this straight. He kicks and hits you in the face. But it was the spit that threw you over board. You are fine with the kicking and hitting, but spit upset you. I mean it's the spit that is really insulting, and everything else is insulting?

Sounds like you are
1. Making excuses for him
2. Placing blame in the wrong area

I wouldn't talk to him. I find it hard to believe that a shrink would recommend you talking to a guy who will physically hurt you (and that this shrink believes you when you say that being kicked and hit in the face does not harm your self respect) so perhaps we are not getting the entire story, or well the entire truth.

Either way I personally wouldn't waste my time, but I'm not you.

Little_Miss_1565
07-05-2006, 09:03 AM
I agree with Per, to an extent. It does sound to me like you're making excuses for his bad behavior, for which there is no excuse. He's clearly being manipulative, and as long as you keep telling yourself that he's not normally like this, you're playing into his fucked-up little game. You'll probably never get an explanation from him, which is heartbreaking I know because you clearly care for him a great deal. It's probably best to just cut him off.

I'd also recommend you get a new counsellor. Terrible advice he/she gave you.

Vera
07-05-2006, 09:04 AM
If I was you and could live without him, I would. People with such deep issues.. I wouldn't include myself in his life unless I really felt the responsibility and thought I could help him. But the violence he used against you, the spitting, it doesn't seem worth it, to be hurt that much by him again.

It feels like that sort of people would need friends, not romantical involvement with people.

Your shrink sounds like an idiot, no offence.

Tizzalicious
07-05-2006, 09:04 AM
I agree with Per (edit: more replies while I was reading, so basicly I agree with what everyone said), people like that annoy me. I think friends should just be friends, and not flip out on you whenever they have a bad day or moment.

mrconeman
07-05-2006, 09:06 AM
Someone who has a personality disorder (like this guy obviously does (I mean blindingly obviously) ) and who seems to refuse to talk about it, or try to seek help for it, spits at you, punches you in the face, and then kicks you in the face, is not worthy of your friendship, you shouldnt need a forum too tell you that.

Also, fire your shrink, anyone who tells you seeing him again is a good idea has clearly gone off the rails.

as WCM stated, this may not be the truth or whole story, so I'm giving my advice based on what you have posted, but their could be more to it.

the_GoDdEsS
07-05-2006, 09:08 AM
You're not going to change him. You can't change a person unless they alone want to change. I guess you know that. Besides, if somebody starts being shitty and weird, it's much better to just leave them alone and definitely not try to ask them questions. Some people don't like what you might think is help and attempting to have a conversation with them leads to more trouble. The wanna-talk-about-it policy doesn't work here.

What happened sounds pretty shitty. If you really want to talk to him again, first understand the reasons as to why you want to talk and what you want from him at all.

MindlessSelfIndulgent
07-05-2006, 09:19 AM
Hmeh. I started the fight. I wanted a reaction. It took me alot of insulting and pushing, to make him hit and kick me. He spit me in the face unprovoked.

:/

Well, there's more to it than what I've written, but I don't know what's not just worthless information.

But I reeeaally like that bastard. He iiis an idiot. But I still adore him like hell. :(


Gaaaaah, I don't know.
Thanks for all your advice. Especially you, Goddess, I'll think alot about that. Thanks.

Hmeh :/

Little_Miss_1565
07-05-2006, 09:23 AM
But I reeeaally like that bastard. He iiis an idiot. But I still adore him like hell. :(

That's the biggest problem with master manipulators.

the_GoDdEsS
07-05-2006, 09:24 AM
Hmeh. I started the fight. I wanted a reaction. It took me alot of insulting and pushing, to make him hit and kick me. He spit me in the face unprovoked.


That's no excuse for him to do that anyway. Don't blame it on yourself that you started it. I'm just telling you for the future that it's much much better to just leave him alone when he snaps.

nieh
07-05-2006, 09:28 AM
So let's get this straight. He kicks and hits you in the face. But it was the spit that threw you over board. You are fine with the kicking and hitting, but spit upset you. I mean it's the spit that is really insulting, and everything else is insulting?

Sounds like you are
1. Making excuses for him
2. Placing blame in the wrong area


She did say she was intentionally pushing his buttons to get a reaction. It was the spitting in her face and insulting her out of the blue that bothered her and I can totally understand that.

MSI, sounds like he's got some issues. You won't be able to change him if he doesn't let you. If you want to give it a shot then by all means go for it, just don't end up driving yourself insane in the process.

Izie
07-05-2006, 09:28 AM
That's the biggest problem with master manipulators.

What she said. Either stay away from him, or learn not to play his game. And agreed with everyone, he's so not worth your time.

MindlessSelfIndulgent
07-05-2006, 09:31 AM
Goddess>>
But if it were me, I'd much rather have people stick around to maybe give me a chance to explain myself :/ ? That's why I stayed. PLUS, I'm not just letting him get away with spitting me in the face.

MindlessSelfIndulgent
07-05-2006, 09:34 AM
She did say she was intentionally pushing his buttons to get a reaction. It was the spitting in her face and insulting her out of the blue that bothered her and I can totally understand that.

MSI, sounds like he's got some issues. You won't be able to change him if he doesn't let you. If you want to give it a shot then by all means go for it, just don't end up driving yourself insane in the process.


Thanks. I'll have to think about what to do..

Little_Miss_1565
07-05-2006, 09:35 AM
Goddess>>
But if it were me, I'd much rather have people stick around to maybe give me a chance to explain myself :/ ? .

That's because *you're* not nuts, and would explain your actions. From past experience, you'll get no joy from him in that department.

the_GoDdEsS
07-05-2006, 09:36 AM
Goddess>>
But if it were me, I'd much rather have people stick around to maybe give me a chance to explain myself :/ ? That's why I stayed. PLUS, I'm not just letting him get away with spitting me in the face.

That's the way you deal with things. It's good for you and definitely for others. But some people just need to cool down first. Staying is just adding fuel to the fire, no matter what approach you choose. If he were to explain himself ever, he'd probably have done it a couple of days later. If at all. Really, as long as the problem persists and is immediate, there's nothing you can do. Especially if it's an anger fit, out of whatever reason you're not going to find out then.

MindlessSelfIndulgent
07-05-2006, 09:42 AM
I'll never get an explanation from him. He doesn't have one, I think. He doesn't make sense. Some of his actions are not in any way logical.
Somehow that's really interesting and it suuucks.
Thanks for helping me out.

wheelchairman
07-05-2006, 09:43 AM
She did say she was intentionally pushing his buttons to get a reaction. It was the spitting in her face and insulting her out of the blue that bothered her and I can totally understand that.

MSI, sounds like he's got some issues. You won't be able to change him if he doesn't let you. If you want to give it a shot then by all means go for it, just don't end up driving yourself insane in the process.
Right. But if some girl was really annoying you, would you resort to violence?

nieh
07-05-2006, 09:49 AM
Right. But if some girl was really annoying you, would you resort to violence?
Probably not. But I also wouldn't randomly start insulting someone and spit in their face. She knew he obviously had some sort of issues when she started pushing his buttons and she probably expected something violent in return.

wheelchairman
07-05-2006, 09:50 AM
Probably not. But I also wouldn't randomly start insulting someone and spit in their face. She knew he obviously had some sort of issues when she started pushing his buttons and she probably expected something violent in return.
Yes of course she did. That doesn't excuse it. That just makes her the wrong person to try and help him.

nieh
07-05-2006, 09:52 AM
I never said it excused it, just that I can understand why the stuff he had no reason to do would be more upsetting than the stuff she intentionally provoked.

wheelchairman
07-05-2006, 09:55 AM
Hmm. Well it's a matter of priorities. I would never accept violence against myself, no matter how much of an ass I was being. So I don't understand why others do.

nieh
07-05-2006, 10:24 AM
Meh. Depends on circumstances. There's a difference between someone being a controlling, abusive asshole and someone that's an emotional wreck or someone with some sort of issues where they get scared and sometimes violent when people get close. The difference is the controlling, abusive assholes are assholes while the others still have potential to be something better. That doesn't mean you can necessarilly help them meet that potential but it can be so damn addicting to try sometimes.

wheelchairman
07-05-2006, 10:26 AM
I've never had the urge to try. I would prefer, as I've said before, not to waste my time trying to help people. But it's really a personal thing.

Nina
07-05-2006, 10:39 AM
Until I talked to my shrink about it. She said that if I wanted, I could start talking to him again. Though I shouldn't expect him to change. And I should keep my selfrespect. He'll probably hit me again, but that's not because he doesn't like me. It's because whenever something is good, he has to ruin it.

I'm on fire now, because your shrink is horrible.
If I ever end up like this, people should shoot me.

And...I dont think you should give him another chance. ever again. But the reasons have already been said.

MindlessSelfIndulgent
07-05-2006, 11:23 AM
Meh. Depends on circumstances. There's a difference between someone being a controlling, abusive asshole and someone that's an emotional wreck or someone with some sort of issues where they get scared and sometimes violent when people get close. The difference is the controlling, abusive assholes are assholes while the others still have potential to be something better. That doesn't mean you can necessarilly help them meet that potential but it can be so damn addicting to try sometimes.

That's iiiiiiiiiit. Thank yooou.




--
Aaand, about my shrink. She didn't say "go be friends with him again". Maybe she just didn't say I should never talk to him again, because she knew that I might anyways. So instead of just saying "Don't", she'd advice me on how to approach him again, and how to be careful and that, if I were to want to talk to him again. Hmeh.

Nina
07-05-2006, 11:28 AM
I guess I just dont understand how anybody would see the possibility for you to be friends with him after that. As a shrink she should of course never give up on people (Mike in this case) but saying that he'll always ruin the good stuff and suggesting the possibility to see him again in one sentence doesnt make sense to me.

Vera
07-05-2006, 11:37 AM
I think what threw me off about your shrink was that "He will probably hit you again but it's not because he doesn't like you" sentence. WTF! It's like telling a person in an abusive relationship to hang on because the person who beats them "loves them, really".

The possibility of a violent outbreak or disrespecting ala spitting at you is not exactly something you want in any relationship or friendship.

Little_Miss_1565
07-05-2006, 11:40 AM
As a shrink she should of course never give up on people (Mike in this case)

No no...shrinks don't give up on CLIENTS, and Mike in this case is not a client.

Nina
07-05-2006, 11:46 AM
I obviously am no shrink yet but I'd like to believe that it's not just the couple hours you work in which you have to care. You learn so much while you study and you should definitely take advantage of your knowledge. Of course Mike is not her client but if she ever met him I doubt she'd treat him like shit. Okay, I cant explain for life.

Little_Miss_1565
07-05-2006, 11:48 AM
I obviously am no shrink yet but I'd like to believe that it's not just the couple hours you work in which you have to care. You learn so much while you study and you should definitely take advantage of your knowledge. Of course Mike is not her client but if she ever met him I doubt she'd treat him like shit. Okay, I cant explain for life.

Surely she wouldn't treat him like shit. But I doubt she'd try to be his best friend, either. There's a line past which caring becomes poisonous to the person who cares.

Nina
07-05-2006, 11:50 AM
As a shrink, she cant care for MSI like you just described, either. That would destroy her as a person ("too...many......people....too...many...emotions... arrgh").

Vera
07-05-2006, 11:51 AM
And people who help for a living, they have to separate work between free time and thus, like a comedian who's not funny off-stage, a shrink can't involve themselves in their patients when off-duty, it becomes mentally too exhausting.

Edit: Sorry I just repeated what Nina agreed with. Nevermind. :D

Little_Miss_1565
07-05-2006, 11:52 AM
As a shrink, she cant care for MSI like you just described, either. That would destroy her as a person ("too...many......people....too...many...emotions... arrgh").

SHrinks care beyond the hour's time you have with them every week, but there's also a reason that no matter how emotional and heavy the conversation has gotten, when time is up conversation is over and you're out the door. No shrink's heart is going to bleed for just any random person.

MindlessSelfIndulgent
07-05-2006, 12:32 PM
Meeeh. But there's a difference between hitting a person, because you think the person has done something bad, and hitting a person, because you just can't cope with a good relationship? Aaaah, I don't know. But I do think it's possible to take a few hits, and still keep your selfrespect. And I did keep my selfrespect that day. He was soooo little. But, yeah, I still don't know.

Little_Miss_1565
07-05-2006, 01:22 PM
MSI, I'm actually less concerned with the violent outburst than I am with the being a spitting, verbally abusive, nonrespondant-when-you-tell-him-to-go-home-if-he's-that-bored bastard to suddenly trying to hold your hand and be sweet, and then snapping back to being a bastard when you (oh so rightfully) called him out on it. That's a HUGE red flag with "run for the hills!" written on it.

MindlessSelfIndulgent
07-05-2006, 01:41 PM
You're absolutely right :(

JohnnyNemesis
07-05-2006, 03:44 PM
I know it's already been pointed out, but:


that was my own fault.


No. NO. Fucking NO!

Not your fault at ALL.

Little_Miss_1565
07-05-2006, 05:58 PM
No. NO. Fucking NO!

Not your fault at ALL.

Quoted for truth.

Tizzalicious
07-05-2006, 10:39 PM
MSI, I'm actually less concerned with the violent outburst than I am with the being a spitting, verbally abusive, nonrespondant-when-you-tell-him-to-go-home-if-he's-that-bored bastard to suddenly trying to hold your hand and be sweet, and then snapping back to being a bastard when you (oh so rightfully) called him out on it. That's a HUGE red flag with "run for the hills!" written on it.

I agree with this, it's not so much the point that he got violent (though that is absolutely wrong too), but that he swtiches from nice to being an ass within a few hours, without you doing anything wrong. You can't count on him, you don't know what he's like when you'll see him, will you have a nice day, or will he turn into an ass again? You won't ever know, and personally, that would be a reason for me not to hang out with someone.

Not Ozymandias
07-05-2006, 11:44 PM
Shrinks are idiots, never speak with him again.

Find a guy to kick the shit out of him.

Mota Boy
07-06-2006, 12:54 AM
He'll probably hit me again, but that's not because he doesn't like me. It's because whenever something is good, he has to ruin it. Because blah blah.
Hahahaha! So you're supposed to hang out with this guy, even though it keeps hurting you, because it's secretly not his fault? Fuck that.

This guy's a douche. He obviously has serious problems and gets off on hurting you. There's absolutely no reason to attach yourself to someone like that, as it's only going to lead to more problems for you. And then to think it's YOUR fault? I see no possible reason in the world why you should reach that conclusion. Just cut the guy off.

People that harm you for no reason aren't your friends. People that take their bad days out on you, *especially* to that extreme, aren't your friends. Again, never interact with that person again.

Betty
07-06-2006, 01:21 AM
Ugh, that's such a tricky situation and I understand that it's not as black and white as "He hit you. Don't ever associate with him again."

The guy is great and you adore him, but he can be a total asshole out of nowhere. What to do what to do?

And honestly, you get to the point where you just cannot stand to deal with somebody like that anymore. Or at least, I hope you do. Because ultimately it's not worth it. It sucks, a lot. But there are lots of people out there who are interesting and great with much more minor issues to have to deal with.

neocon58
07-06-2006, 02:20 AM
I think you should post his msn.