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HornyPope
07-13-2006, 07:05 PM
Since I woke up after noon, i'm toying with the thought all day that every single psychologists should be hanged.

My 'pros' are the motherfuckers have branched up so many spectres of human behaviour and emotions; they took it and demystified it, left it like a naked, violated women at your door. Psychology could very possibly could come to ruin everything that is pure and beautiful in the world and bring us to the eventual doom.

The "cons" are it's a pretty cool profession.

Little_Miss_1565
07-13-2006, 07:18 PM
What is 'pure' and 'beautiful' about very real mental distress/disease/disorder, which psychology helps to ameliorate?

HornyPope
07-13-2006, 07:28 PM
It's mystified, wild, not patterned; it's true human emotions expressing in a human body.

You don't have a "case" for it.

JoY
07-13-2006, 07:30 PM
I'd toy with that thought, but for the reason I hate to be analysed when I don't ask for it. (this is mostly psychology students) you can't look at me & tell me what my problems are. god. the people I've met came with conclusions so quickly, I was even unaware they were trying to dig themselves a way into my mind & soul. borderline personality? what the fuck do you think I am? a walking bundle of amateur diagnosises? & you think I appreciate that, how exactly? do me a favour, leave home made analysises about me to me. unless I ask for it, or when it's appropriate. really.

sorry, I don't dig that kind of shit. medical advice when people ask for it, fine. but someone judging the way I am, behave, who I am & everything, based on a limited image of me, a shell or two stories, that doesn't exactly float my boat.

HornyPope
07-13-2006, 07:31 PM
Oh wow Bella you totally nailed it.

HornyPope
07-13-2006, 07:38 PM
Hey, Bella wanna be the Jews to kill psychology?

You know when the Jews created communism, they were back-stabbed and then forever hated, persecuted for it; so they switched sides and joined capitalism and were ultimately the force that trumpled communism.
Now we'll take another Jewish product, psychology, and kill it too.

JoY
07-13-2006, 07:48 PM
It's mystified, wild, not patterned; it's true human emotions expressing in a human body.

You don't have a "case" for it.
I'll agree with that. not fully, but mostly. I'm scared that at some point the entire world of psychiatry & psychology will seriously finally have to conclude that there's no definition of "health", "sickness" & "normal" anymore. that nothing can capture all the different ways to be sick, all the twisted ways to be healthy/normal... that they have to conclude that their science was built on linguistic assumptions, on language & the terms that are supposed to capture the essence of those words.

I already took psychiatry off my list of things I want to do. it's things/thoughts like these, that make me unsure if the entire study is even ethical.. it takes away a form of innocence, a certain form of naiveness. you don't have to know at all times what you are thinking, dreaming, wishing, wanting, why & what you should be thinking, dreaming, wishing, wanting. everything is more spontanious if the human behaviour & the entire human being wouldn't be taken apart like a car bit by bit by people who call themselves professionals. it's like every other "development" we know; you seem to go forward, but then it turns out to backfire in some aspects.

you'll have to ask yourself what you desire more (PSYCHOLOGY OH EM GEE!); "progress" in a science that attempts to explain our behaviour, thoughts et cetera, or just fucking behave the way you do, live life the way you feel is right, without ever trying to figure out why people their lives differently & wondering if it's you or them who's normal. this entire study is just a struggle, a competition for normality. but ain't life just crazy. noho, there's no stopping that crazy ol' thing called life.

nieh
07-13-2006, 07:55 PM
It's not fun that every little quirk in someone's personality is a symptom of something that's been given a name.

It's very good for people that actually have problems though. It can help.

JoY
07-13-2006, 07:56 PM
Hey, Bella wanna be the Jews to kill psychology?

You know when the Jews created communism, they were back-stabbed and then forever hated, persecuted for it; so they switched sides and joined capitalism and were ultimately the force that trumpled communism.
Now we'll take another Jewish product, psychology, and kill it too.
I'd love to. muhahahaha!

but that'd leave our own generation & the next 4 that will follow in such an unbelievable mess, that I don't think I want to live to see it. (no, suggestions aren't welcome) if we try to stop to analyse the mind, it'll be some kind of start signal to let it go completely & give up all control over the mind we've ever gained.

Little_Miss_1565
07-13-2006, 07:59 PM
It's mystified, wild, not patterned; it's true human emotions expressing in a human body.

Having suffered it myself, there's nothing romantic about post-traumatic stress disorder, but psychology and psychotherapy turned out to be beautiful things for me.

Little_Miss_1565
07-13-2006, 08:01 PM
sorry, I don't dig that kind of shit. medical advice when people ask for it, fine. but someone judging the way I am, behave, who I am & everything, based on a limited image of me, a shell or two stories, that doesn't exactly float my boat.

I agree absolutely and unequivocally. But I think what you're describing is a problem with the way some humans feel they must impose their beliefs and thoughts on others, not a problem with psychology itself.

HornyPope
07-13-2006, 08:18 PM
Having suffered it myself, there's nothing romantic about post-traumatic stress disorder, but psychology and psychotherapy turned out to be beautiful things for me.

That kind of realist, fix-it-if-it-hurts rhetoric is precisely what turns me off.

nieh
07-13-2006, 08:27 PM
That kind of realist, fix-it-if-it-hurts rhetoric is precisely what turns me off.

Are you criticizing the current state of over-medication or are you criticizing therapy in general with that? I'd agree with the first to a point but not really the second. When there's actually something wrong and the person needs to essentially re-wire their own brain to fix it, having someone that knows how to lead you to where you need to be and just having someone to talk to about everything in the first place would be very helpful. It can be very difficult to get that sort of treatment from friends or family.

HornyPope
07-13-2006, 08:38 PM
You read too much into my post to see on which side of the stupid fucking debate I stand. I don't think of it in terms of "how much therapy is too much therapy like omg where do you draw the line". Fuck that, I don't care what everyone does with their mind and soul. I'm just annoyed at our values, what it represents to people, how they grow to like it etc... and how I have to share the world with you scum.

/elitist to da max

Little_Miss_1565
07-13-2006, 08:55 PM
Ah yes, well, me and my painful realism are going to go to another topic now, because emotions-uber-alles romanticism nauseates me.

JoY
07-13-2006, 10:24 PM
You read too much into my post to see on which side of the stupid fucking debate I stand. I don't think of it in terms of "how much therapy is too much therapy like omg where do you draw the line". Fuck that, I don't care what everyone does with their mind and soul. I'm just annoyed at our values, what it represents to people, how they grow to like it etc... and how I have to share the world with you scum.

/elitist to da max
sometimes I feel exactly like this.


& then I pop a Ritalin & remember it's that world that raised me to become a fucking pussy who thinks about stuff like "I have problems, my cousins, brother & grandmother have ADHD..."
....
I'M NOT SUPPOSED TO MAKE SUCH CONNECTIONS.
I'm supposed to be like I was before; "I feel horrible. nothing two bottles of wine can't fix!" now those were the days. not exactly comfortable, but life is supposed to be a rocky road.

JoY
07-13-2006, 10:33 PM
Ah yes, well, me and my painful realism are going to go to another topic now, because emotions-uber-alles romanticism nauseates me.
hahahaha, it only nauseates me if I remember how I was. am. was. but only towards myself. untill I decided I was becoming a walking bundle of bad habits & got help.

& honest to god, I wouldn't study medicine if I wasn't pro-help. but you can't possibly deny our parents have grown the most lazy generation of human beings anyone could ever imagine. although, not lazy, but a generation craving comfort. a generation that can't really handle a broken nail & develops actual covernails to fix one.

it used to be; "we'll try to help you, we might not be able to, in the mean time stay strong", now it's; "we'll of course help you, with these new yadayada we'll have you up & smiling in no time!"

Rocky-girl
07-13-2006, 11:48 PM
One thing is to dig in somebody's feelings another thing is to listen to him and try to understand his feelings.

XYlophonetreeZ
07-14-2006, 12:22 AM
I've been having the exact same thought lately. Certainly, there is room for overlap with actual, proven neurology that indeed points to important chemical information about the brain, the effects of imbalances, etc. I mention this only because this is taught in many psychology classes too and I got no beef with that, so I just wanted to get that out of the way.

But the main problem I see with psychologists is this: it's becoming increasingly easy and common to obtain psych degrees at whatever level. And factually, there is no way for a psychologist to have confidence in his or her aptitude at their profession unless they are, by conventional standards, assholes. Case in point: about a year and a half ago, some know-it-all friend acquaintance of mind asked me if I minded helping with her psych project. Turns out, that meant she was going to try me out for a fun little game called word association! Yayz! Reluctantly, I obliged, and she analyzed me immediately by saying shit like "and you were hesitant why I mentioned family... so that probably points to some conflict there."

I was disgusted that this was a real assignment for a fucking FRESHMAN psych class. I mean, I'm sure it wasn't also an assignment to talk like an expert on the subject after doing some light assigned reading for a couple months and awkwardly analyze people who are supposed to be your friends, but they have to know that that's the reality of teaching people this ambiguous Freudian shit. Which brings me back to my original point that psychologists have to be assholes away from the workplace in order to truly maintain their confidence. If one possesses the ability to analyze simple statements and nuances when people pay them for it, they can do it anywhere. They can't just turn it off and they don't want to, because like Vlad said, they cheat their way out of the normal mystery of human relationships. And yeah, also the people that do pay for treatment generally put too much stock in the opinions (and usually, that's what they are, nothing more) of a relative stranger on your mental health.

Preocupado
07-14-2006, 12:23 AM
I remember that, in high school, i used to hate psychologists to the core, thinking: "dumbasses padronizing a person's mind", and lots of other things along those lines.

Turns out that the evil psychology was the only graduation course that already had a strong effect on me at that time, and now it's my favourite thing.

Preocupado
07-14-2006, 12:58 AM
If one possesses the ability to analyze simple statements and nuances when people pay them for it, they can do it anywhere.

We can try to do it anywhere, but we're only able to actually do it when there's such a demand (someone who expects us to do it for them) - and, let's not forget that it's a profession, so there's also a working contract, and this is where the getting payed part begins.

In other words, you know that joke that goes: How many psychologists does it take to change a light bulb? One, but the light bulb must really want to change.

It's just like that. Outside the working place, we can try to analize as much as we can, and, i won't lie, we do that alot. It's fun! It's like pretending that we're reading your mind. But a tiny drop of ethics and appreciation for the effort and money that we put into our study is enough to abstain from shoving that trick into someone's face.

Inside the working place, in the other hand, the patient must be seeking help, and then we have something legitimate to work with. We'll let the patient show us what's bothering him, then we let his desire reveal, so we can help him follow that direction.

And the freshman... it's simply a freshman. I don't think he could be any more of a foolish deluded student than any other course's student.

JoY
07-14-2006, 05:53 AM
Which brings me back to my original point that psychologists have to be assholes away from the workplace in order to truly maintain their confidence.
they're absolute tree-hugging hippy-like pussies, who wanted to "help the planet", but were too shitfaced to chain themselves to a leaking boat with Greenpeace & too chickenshit to study ten years, cut up dead bodies & choose the profession it often seems a weak concept of. they are more frightened of being disliked than of death itself. their biggest goal in life is to invent a new form of psychoanalysis that can actually help people, to get through to people, but when... no never mind. the person I knew who was like that ended up in a hospital with hepatitis, emphysema & asthma attacks from heroin.

but most people I know that got into psychology are total idealists to the point they're out of touch with reality.

what I hate is just fumbled psychology from the so called professionals.
"so you're having troubles with anxiety? ah. when you have to perform? I see." (you can repeat a thing to let the other know you listened & heard it, but you can also be a fucking parrot *parrot voice* "anxiety, Bella's scared, Bella's scared!") I stared out the window, saw two kids playing soccer on the street & from a distance I heard; "what do you think when you're scared?" I replied; "that if I fail, that'd suck." she nodded, closing her eyes a little bit, pinching them together; "ah yes, so if you fail, you feel that'd be.. unpleasant." now I looked at her with a raised eyebrow. "yes, is there even a fun way to fail?" in her eyes appeared a sparkle of enthousiasm, like she'd just came up with a good idea for Scary Movie XXV; "failing isn't the end of the world. whenever you're scared, you should dig for the thought that causes it & replace it! here for instance..." she lost me. ohhh, she so lost me. I sunk away in thoughts again; "shall I blurt out that I cut my arm yesterday? maybe she'll tell me to replace my skin by happy material. happy! wall filler is happy material, oh yes, it can even get into the corners." mother came to pick me up, put the check in her jacket, an arm around my shoulder; "so hunny, was it good today?"

it's shameless, really. disgusting. the next one I went to asked how my relationship with my father was. either way, I got a letter home for school that I had performance anxiety & that extra time would take some pressure away. then I went to university; "if you don't have treatment for your anxiety, we won't give you extra time". I sighed; "I have treatment for ADHD, they say it comes all in the package & that ADHD is the direct cause of anxiety in some cases". the lady behind the counter looked at me; "if you don't have treatment for anxiety, I can't help you." & she stood up to shake my hand. I asked the board why university is so fucking human unfriendly, bureaucratic, unpleasant & asshole. they replied that those who require a more personal approach, usually don't make it this far.

sometimes I hate planet earth.

nieh
07-14-2006, 07:18 AM
I asked the board why university is so fucking human unfriendly, bureaucratic, unpleasant & asshole. they replied that those who require a more personal approach, usually don't make it this far.

sometimes I hate planet earth.

You shouldn't really expect special treatment from someplace where you're pretty much just another faceless student. It's not worth their time, effort, and money to give you a more personal approach. If you weren't there there'd be 100 other people willing to pay to take your place and none of them would require the same effort. It's normally fairly easy to find individuals there (professors, students, counselors, whatever) that would be willing to put that effort in, but the university as a whole just doesn't really care.
Blah. I'm still in pessimist mode from last night. This is all your fault!

JoY
07-14-2006, 08:42 AM
but you got a cuddle out of me! a warm, fuzzy one, full of Josh-love.

I know it'd VERY egocentric to think they'd give me a special treatment. it's too late for me anyway, I'm 22, most people are diagnosed at the age of 7. (you can't diagnose someone with ADHD before the age of 7 anyway, besides having strong suspicions) I'm a tough girl, I can tie my own sandals & everything. (*giggles* that's a lame Disney Hercules reference, but I like it)

there's a longer story to this. (there I go again *sigh*) my doctor & I discussed the subject of his profession - the mind - & ADHD in a way it wasn't related to me. we're both interested in the subject, both know little about it; he's just inexperienced, although he knows the world about it - I don't know a thing about it, except myself & how I am.

when he said about (rough number) 1 out of 25 have to cope with ADHD according to some studies (others say it might be 1 out of 30, or 1 out of 20, but it differs where & how the subject was researched), I figured that's quite a lot. just in my university over 360 students start their study medicine every year, so do the math. I thought it generally could be helpful to have a system, some kind of back up system, or if at least universities knew a bit about things like these. not just teaching about it, but knowing some of their own students that are becoming doctors could be "patients" aswell. it's just weird that what you teach & learn is so distant, you never associate it with yourself or your direct environment.

either way, I asked of how many student they knew they were having problems with this. generally problems like these are indicated when you start studying, so the study advisor has a background story, a more complete image & can advice you more efficiently. they responded about four students studying at the medical faculty are diagnosed with ADHD (one of them being me) & then there are students with problems with dyslexia & such. I asked them how that was possible & they said; "well, we're surprised you haven't given up yet, it's a natural selection. most people just quit. especially if their course in medicine looked anything like yours."

to be honest, I was a little offended. I mean, you can't always circle around people, pick up their mess behind them, give them extra special attention - that's not how life works. but WHY is it the medical faculty that's most insensitive to medical problems of their students? when I called & said I couldn't come because I had a broken leg two years ago, they said to me that I had to grab a wheelchair, or I was out of the course I was taking.

I'm number 1424122, they call me the girl with the broken leg, because that's when I contacted the faculty the most. you can only reach these people via fifty phonenumbers, twenty secretaries, hundred waiting lines, fifty times on hold & thirty e-mails to confirm your requests & remind them of ever having talked to them. my entire faculty is one big computer & it's getting defaults. I just don't feel it has anything to do with anything that's still human.

but we're entirely off topic. :eek: !

nieh
07-14-2006, 09:25 AM
We're such horrible thread-jackers.

Only 6 more minutes until I get to leave this place and forage around the outside world for food for an hour.

Preocupado
07-14-2006, 02:08 PM
they're absolute tree-hugging hippy-like pussies, who wanted to "help the planet", but were too shitfaced to chain themselves to a leaking boat with Greenpeace & too chickenshit to study ten years, cut up dead bodies & choose the profession it often seems a weak concept of. they are more frightened of being disliked than of death itself. their biggest goal in life is to invent a new form of psychoanalysis that can actually help people, to get through to people, but when... no never mind. the person I knew who was like that ended up in a hospital with hepatitis, emphysema & asthma attacks from heroin.



Now, seriously, this paragraph is equivalent to my "feminists suck" argument. Seriously. Except that this one makes it seem like you're actually believing what you wrote, instead of trying to provoke a fuss.

HornyPope
07-14-2006, 02:55 PM
The worst is the psychologists joining hands with economists to bank on human insecurities. Commercials for products today are so revolting, so offensive.

I think I saw this one on an American network about a guy standing in front of a Harley when a girl comes to him and asks if the bike belongs to him, which he say it does. The two proceed to flirt, when fiften seconds in the conversation a third person (the owner) shows up and drives away on the bike. Obviously then the girl walks away, leaving the guy speechless and embarassed.
Then a background voice in the commercial asks "Isn't it time you got your own?"

Tizzalicious
07-14-2006, 03:23 PM
The worst is the American medicine commericials. They are selling these horrible sleeping pills to people who just sleep lightly. There seems to be a quick fix for everything.

Another interesting thing is that under their original management, Tatu was run by a psychologist and a marketing agent.

A lot of my attitudes towards psychology are accurately depicted by fellow Cascadian, Ken Kesey, in his book One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest. To a psychologist, no one is sane.

- WCM

Yatesy
07-14-2006, 03:45 PM
I've finished doing Psychology at A level and tbh, a lot of it is a load of crap. It's all theory and a lot of the things are non-falsifiable imo. A lot of studies are only conducted in western cultures, quite often only in America so a lot of the results are almost impossible to apply to everyone in the world, I mean how do you know that everyone will act that way? I wouldn't think of it like this is if they taught it like it's theory but it's not and is put across like it's fact and that it is right when it isn't because it's subjective. Sorry my post made little sense btw.

BREAK
07-15-2006, 10:47 AM
Psychology is like having someone explain the joke to you. It makes more sense, but it's no longer funny.

Pope, if you think the state of advertising is abysmal today (which of course it is), you should see the kind of stuff they used to print. Check this (http://www.thismodernworld.org/gra/gra_bWinston1.jpg) shit out. Holy damn. (http://www.thismodernworld.org/gra/gra_bwives.jpg)

Izie
07-15-2006, 11:50 AM
Ah you just hate me and the fact I want to study it. Ill do ıt anyway.

/sleep-deprıved semı-drunk Iz on a confusıng turkısh keyboard :(

Preocupado
07-15-2006, 12:57 PM
Psychology is like having someone explain the joke to you. It makes more sense, but it's no longer funny.


That's psychoanalysis, not psychology.

JoY
07-17-2006, 06:30 AM
psychoanalysis = psychology.
ant = insect, insect is not always ant.

& it depends on how you look at it, anyway. I thought Break's comparison was pretty much on the money. except psychology hardly ever provides an explanation.

Per, the way American pharmaceutic companies have adjusted the defenition of sickness in a way it'd be profitable for them is indeed nauseating.

Preocupado, you don't think feminists suck?
I know mostly soft hearted people who study psychology. people who'd do anything to be liked & who are naive. I take examples from my direct environment. & the part you quoted could in no way be related to feminism.

Preocupado
07-17-2006, 01:26 PM
Making an interpretation and leaving the patient with it is psychoanalysis, not psychology.

And no, i don't think feminists suck. I made that thread to make jokes and fuss. With a serious debate coming ahead in my class, that thread would help me to burn the stereotypes. The feminist pissed me off and, as a result, i went to the class without the urge to crap on them. In other words, it was good :s

So, i'm comparing your post with that. Even if it's based on what you've taken from real people, it's still a bunch of stereotyped and stactic views on them. I think that if you make a cleaning on those views and take a closer look on psych students, you'll see things very differently.

JoY
07-19-2006, 02:22 AM
oh please, babe, I've considered studying psychology. if it wasn't for the psychologists & psychology students I've met, I wouldn't be this cynical. psychology in itself is very interesting & can be even fun, but there's a vague grey area on which it gets slippery & very unfun.