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Endymion
08-21-2006, 07:05 PM
i'm apparently at her beck and call to make threads for her.

so without further ado, best snack ever (http://www.kraftfoods.com/main.aspx?s=recipe&m=recipe/knet_recipe_display&Rpage=8&u1=keyword&u2=cereal&u3=**142*231&wf=9&recipe_id=10348).

Little_Miss_1565
08-21-2006, 07:52 PM
Thank you baby!!!

PS--Next meetup, you need to be there. Bring the bacon, I'll bring the Tang.

HornyPope
08-21-2006, 09:10 PM
Lol you fuck 12 year olds.

Mmmm bacon.

Hey Sarah, do you mind cooking meat? What's your opinion on a vegeterian wife (who does mind cooking meat) serving food for her family?

Little_Miss_1565
08-21-2006, 09:53 PM
It's really a matter of personal choice. I'd prefer my babies to eat vegetarian food, but I'm not going to force my dietary choices on someone who genuinely doesn't like it. Trouble is, though, I have no idea how to cook meat, since I learned to cook after I made the switch, as it were, so if my kids want burgers, they'll have to make them on their own.

I wouldn't want meat grossness all over my pots and pans, though.

Endymion
08-21-2006, 10:23 PM
would you still put my meat in your oven, baby?

HornyPope
08-21-2006, 10:26 PM
That's terrible. I'll never have for a wife someone who doesn't serve our kids food because it grosses her out. Because unless you're doing it to protect your kids (i.e. if meat was harmfull), I can't in my head accept a mother whose more concerned about how grossed out she is than feeding her kids.

Sin Studly
08-22-2006, 08:20 AM
I agree with Vlad. Real women know how to clean and pluck chickens.

Izie
08-22-2006, 09:21 AM
Slavic women even know how to kill chickens. And they learn it as children.

*shifts eyes*

And on topic, that snack sounds... interesting. I think I'd like cooking with Sarah.

HornyPope
08-22-2006, 09:23 AM
Yeah, that woman here has a cook book from like end 19th century where a recipe begins with a word on HOW TO KILL the chicken.

Izie
08-22-2006, 09:27 AM
Excuse me!

It has cows too. And any form of animal you cook and eat. I'm not sure about fish, but I'll get back to you on that.

And it's not how to kill then, just how to skin them/cut them/pick the right meat.

Little_Miss_1565
08-22-2006, 09:31 AM
That's terrible. I'll never have for a wife someone who doesn't serve our kids food because it grosses her out. Because unless you're doing it to protect your kids (i.e. if meat was harmfull), I can't in my head accept a mother whose more concerned about how grossed out she is than feeding her kids.

Um, if you read what I actually wrote, you'd see that I have no idea how to cook meat. I'd prefer not to kill my future children, kthx. I'd never want a husband who doesn't listen to what I say.

Nina
08-22-2006, 09:34 AM
Ok thx guys. I'm horribly hungry now.

Little_Miss_1565
08-22-2006, 09:39 AM
Um, Nina, if bacon and Tang bars are making you hungry, I worry. :(

JohnnyNemesis
08-22-2006, 09:41 AM
I'd never want a husband who doesn't listen to what I say.

haha, you better leave America then, u kno wut i'm sayin' amirite?

Nina
08-22-2006, 09:44 AM
I looked at the pictures and it looked good. And I have no idea what tang is. AND I am very hungry.

P.S. and i like bacon. whats wrong with it? i think i just dont get it.

wheelchairman
08-22-2006, 09:47 AM
Tang is the brand of Orange Juice that American Astronauts drank on the moon.

Needless Capitalizations.

Nina
08-22-2006, 09:48 AM
I am obviously missing the joke. I dont see anything wrong with Orange Juice or bacon :(

Little_Miss_1565
08-22-2006, 09:49 AM
I looked at the pictures and it looked good. And I have no idea what tang is. AND I am very hungry.

P.S. and i like bacon. whats wrong with it? i think i just dont get it.

There's nothing wrong with the ingredients individually. But cereal, bacon, and fake orange drink powder? GROSS.

HornyPope
08-22-2006, 09:50 AM
Um, if you read what I actually wrote, you'd see that I have no idea how to cook meat. I'd prefer not to kill my future children, kthx. I'd never want a husband who doesn't listen to what I say.

You learn to cook. You know, like women have done for centuries.
The focus isn`t on who tells whom what to do, I didn`t even mention the husband in the example, but the concern is with kids deprived of a very significant portion of aliments because their mother has meat phobia. I find this inexcusable. I can hear no argument where a woman considers her convictions are more improtant than feeding her children.

But obviously, and foruntately, we`ll never have to share a roof so it`s a moot argument. :) Just one man`s opinion, pardon the cliche.

Nina
08-22-2006, 09:50 AM
I bet it works. I feel like trying it, haha.

Only the amount of sugar worries me. I dont like sugar much.

JohnnyNemesis
08-22-2006, 09:51 AM
Most women who don't eat meat and don't know how to cook meat just provide their kids with vitamins and other supplements. I'm a big time carnivore, but personally, I think that the deprivation accusation is a bit ridiculous.

HornyPope
08-22-2006, 09:55 AM
You can supply vitamins up to a point... I mean there are always ways around it, fortunately. I don`t think anyone will starve per se. But not ever having meat in the house during a kid`s entire life is terrible.

Little_Miss_1565
08-22-2006, 09:56 AM
You learn to cook. You know, like women have done for centuries.
The focus isn`t on who tells whom what to do, I didn`t even mention the husband in the example, but the concern is with kids deprived of a very significant portion of aliments because their mother has meat phobia. I find this inexcusable. I can hear no argument where a woman considers her convictions are more improtant than feeding her children.

But obviously, and foruntately, we`ll never have to share a roof so it`s a moot argument. :) Just one man`s opinion, pardon the cliche.

Um, I am not deprived of any nutrients by not eating meat, nor are any of the vegetarian children I know. It's nearly impossible to learn to cook something without tasting it and really getting to know your ingredients. I never said I wouldn't feed my children, you small-minded toolbox, and if my future partner eats meat, he can cook it for them. My children will be very well fed, and very healthy to boot, and fuck you for insinuating otherwise.

HornyPope
08-22-2006, 10:06 AM
Well, if you can dance around the arrangements... I suppose you can also order stuff and take them to eat out, it`s just the whole no-meat policy is alien to me. But best of luck to the kids!

Little_Miss_1565
08-22-2006, 10:10 AM
Well, if you can dance around the arrangements... I suppose you can also order stuff and take them to eat out, it`s just the whole no-meat policy is alien to me. But best of luck to the kids!

It's not a matter of dancing around any argument, or ordering take-out. It's that you are entirely divorced from any reality that doesn't take place inside your own head. I can and will marry a man who isn't afraid of using a stove, and there is nothing nutritionally in meat that you can't get from any other non-meat source. Kindly butt the fuck out from anything involving my life from now on. Thanks.

Preocupado
08-22-2006, 10:21 AM
It's only red meat you don't eat or sea food as well? I mean, sea food is very light, it can't possibly kill you.

Also, don't you think that, with moderation, nearly any diet can be healthy?

Nina
08-22-2006, 10:28 AM
Also, don't you think that, with moderation, nearly any diet can be healthy?

How about just eating everything in moderation and be healthy?

Preocupado
08-22-2006, 10:30 AM
How about just eating everything in moderation and be healthy?

Yeah, that's what i wanted to say.

Little_Miss_1565
08-22-2006, 10:32 AM
It's true, any diet in moderation can be healthy. But the bottom line is I personally don't want to eat meat, including seafood, so I don't. I really don't understand why it is so difficult for some of you to understand that I really am absolutely healthy not eating meat for the last 5 or 6 years, or that anyone can be healthy doing this.

Sunny
08-22-2006, 10:40 AM
jesus christ whoever came up with that snack is a sick sick person. it kinda sounds like vomit. :[

i've always found it interesting how in some cultures - or social groups, whatever - a good, nutritious, filling meal has to include meat. it seems to be quite a deep-rooted belief. and now i'm kinda lol-ing at the implications that sarah will depriiiiive her children of important nutrients.

JohnnyNemesis
08-22-2006, 10:44 AM
I'm with you on that one, Sunny, even though I'm a product of one of those cultures and about 80% of the time, I don't feel like I've eaten a meal unless there is some sort of meat involved. I kind of lol @ myself about it because it's kind of silly.

Still, I've always been under the impression that lots of people who don't eat meat or seafood often take supplements and such, but only because I know quite a few people that do. I also know quite a few people who don't do that because they don't need 'em, etc.

Little_Miss_1565
08-22-2006, 10:47 AM
Still, I've always been under the impression that lots of people who don't eat meat or seafood often take supplements and such, but only because I know quite a few people that do. I also know quite a few people who don't do that because they don't need 'em, etc.

It's important to also note that many people who *DO* eat meat still take supplements. Centrum and OneADay don't make their money off vegetarians, after all.

Don't worry guys, my children will have plenty, including beatings. :)

sKratch
08-22-2006, 10:53 AM
Jealous of your kids getting breast fed :[

Sunny
08-22-2006, 10:54 AM
ricky, i grew up in sausage country ;p... but i also spent all my summers in the mountains where people, historically, were way too poor to afford meat, so they had to do without. sooo ages of poverty resulted in developing amazing, nutritious, supertasty food with no meat in it. so i was like ZOMG ITS POSSIBLE! ;p

as for supplements, i've taken them my entire life, so i dunno. most people i know do, vegetarian or not. i myself i'm a pesc..pescjgtrg... seafood eater.

and speaking of supplements, spirulina fucking pwnz.

sKratch
08-22-2006, 11:06 AM
wtf i don't believe there is such a thing as polish cusine that doesn't include massive amounts of meat

Nina
08-22-2006, 11:11 AM
But the bottom line is I personally don't want to eat meat, including seafood, so I don't. I really don't understand why it is so difficult for some of you to understand that I really am absolutely healthy not eating meat for the last 5 or 6 years, or that anyone can be healthy doing this.

I dont think anybody was attacking you or even speaking about your choice of food, except HornyPope. I for one just spoke out in a general manner and we both agree (as does Preocupado). So why do you speak of SOME? I only see HP.

Sunny
08-22-2006, 11:18 AM
I KNOW. NO ONE BELIEVES ME.

i am tempted to write a "sausage-free polish cookbook" and be like stfu all. :[

Nina
08-22-2006, 11:20 AM
My polish ex bff had these polish sausages at home and I was like eeewww. needless to say, she never touched them, either.
:[

Rag Doll
08-22-2006, 11:24 AM
I dont think anybody was attacking you or even speaking about your choice of food, except HornyPope. I for one just spoke out in a general manner and we both agree (as does Preocupado). So why do you speak of SOME? I only see HP.

i think it's because Sarah has gotten into this discussion a ridiculous amount of times on this board.

Nina
08-22-2006, 11:25 AM
i think it's because Sarah has gotten into this discussion a ridiculous amount of times on this board.

I know, but it's always the same people. And in this specific topic, only one person.

Sunny
08-22-2006, 11:26 AM
My polish ex bff had these polish sausages at home and I was like eeewww. needless to say, she never touched them, either.
:[

>_<

mewww!

JohnnyNemesis
08-22-2006, 11:40 AM
It's important to also note that many people who *DO* eat meat still take supplements. Centrum and OneADay don't make their money off vegetarians, after all.

True indeed! I used to take Centrum, and it's definitely a universal supplement.


ricky, i grew up in sausage country ;p... but i also spent all my summers in the mountains where people, historically, were way too poor to afford meat, so they had to do without. sooo ages of poverty resulted in developing amazing, nutritious, supertasty food with no meat in it. so i was like ZOMG ITS POSSIBLE! ;p

God, I'm such a fucking dork, because I found this right here to be absolutely fascinating, to the point where I didn't even have anything to say in response because I was so interested I was just totally satisfied.

wtf i don't believe there is such a thing as polish cusine that doesn't include massive amounts of meat

Ew, perv.

Little_Miss_1565
08-22-2006, 12:00 PM
I know, but it's always the same people. And in this specific topic, only one person.

Come on, you can't come into a discussion and make "general statements" and expect that the person being attacked isn't going to take them as being directed her way.

Nina
08-22-2006, 12:12 PM
I can, and I do. I dont think my post could have been misunderstood the way you did. You feel attacked *very* easily, 1565. I only wrote my last reply to you because I've noticed you aaallwwaayss feel attacked by me, and I am not keen on that because I havent attacked you.
And I was in the discussion before. That wasnt my first post in the topic. so it's not really an argument either way.

Sin Studly
08-22-2006, 12:17 PM
I think it's pretty fucked up that people are giving Sarah the idea that it's okay to be massively offended simply because somebody pointed out he doesn't like the fact that you're going to abuse your children.

Nina
08-22-2006, 12:22 PM
I think it's pretty fucked up that people are giving Sarah the idea that it's okay to be massively offended simply because somebody pointed out he doesn't like the fact that you're going to abuse your children.

:/ you dont really help the situation, you know.

But people should get over it. She's a vegetarian. Yeah. A person who doesnt eat meat. people should stop asking her so she can stop talking about it so people can stop attacking her so she can stop feeling bothered etc.
And then maybe she can stop thinking people *always* attack her. Like, you guessed it, me. It sounds like a good plan to me.

JohnnyNemesis
08-22-2006, 12:25 PM
This is confusing, Nina.

Aside from Vlad, who she was speaking directly to, Sarah never once mentioned anyone by name, or said that anyone in PARTICULAR was attacking her. Heck, it seemed pretty obvious to me that she was referring to people both online AND offline throughout the thread.

Sarah never mentioned anyone, but you're acting like she attacked you, and responding with the accusation that she always thinks people are attacking her when they're not.

0r4ng3
08-22-2006, 12:26 PM
This started out as such a happy thread, too.

Why always with the fighting?

Sunny
08-22-2006, 12:29 PM
If everyone "abused" their children the way Sarah is going to, our world would be a gorgeous place filled with rainbows, glowsticks and puppies.

sKratch
08-22-2006, 12:30 PM
Because dirty hairy-legged vegan feminazis hate our freedom! DON'T LET THE TERRORISTS WIN!

Nina
08-22-2006, 12:36 PM
Er Rick, she said herself that she felt that my statement was torwards her.

And to be honest, the entire why I eat meat/dont eat meat is absolutely annoying. And if everyone can state their opinion, I can, too. And I will. And I just did. The end.

JohnnyNemesis
08-22-2006, 12:39 PM
Er Rick, she said herself that she felt that my statement was torwards her.

Not quite. She said that her reaction was reasonable because of the way these arguments always go, and she only said that after you implied that she was being oversensitive.


And if everyone can state their opinion, I can, too.

No one said you couldn't. Heck, you know how much I respect you; what I always want is MORE of your opinion.

Nina
08-22-2006, 12:43 PM
Come on, you can't come into a discussion and make "general statements" and expect that the person being attacked isn't going to take them as being directed her way.

She thought it was directed her way (I think she also meant Preocupado because he said the same thing as me) so she wrote the reply I am criticising. You know?

And, you are one of the few people who respect me so it's a little difficult for me to let lose when I just KNOW 100% that I am right. That doesnt happen very often so I dont give up on these rare occasions.

JohnnyNemesis
08-22-2006, 12:48 PM
Ah, now I see where the confusion lies and where my mistakes were. I'm pretty sure that the bolded part was referring to when Vlad attacked her, but I see that it definitely looks like that's not the case.

Sin Studly
08-22-2006, 12:50 PM
If everyone "abused" their children the way Sarah is going to, our world would be a gorgeous place filled with rainbows, glowsticks and puppies.

Anaemic kids look like goths.

Llamas
08-22-2006, 01:03 PM
horny pope is an idiot.

Little_Miss_1565
08-22-2006, 01:11 PM
I can, and I do. I dont think my post could have been misunderstood the way you did. You feel attacked *very* easily, 1565. I only wrote my last reply to you because I've noticed you aaallwwaayss feel attacked by me, and I am not keen on that because I havent attacked you.
And I was in the discussion before. That wasnt my first post in the topic. so it's not really an argument either way.

Nina, I barely ever talk to you, so I don't understand how I "aaaalwayysss" feel attacked by you.

Preocupado
08-22-2006, 01:18 PM
She thought it was directed her way (I think she also meant Preocupado because he said the same thing as me) so she wrote the reply I am criticising. You know?



Nina, i didn't take it that way because i wasan't criticising her, and your post also didn't sound like criticism.



horny pope is an idiot.

Start to think. You're in trouble.

Nina
08-22-2006, 01:31 PM
Nina, I barely ever talk to you, so I don't understand how I "aaaalwayysss" feel attacked by you.

On the BBS, obviously. But forget it, I'm over it.

Preocupado...that's exactly what I said o.0

Endymion
08-22-2006, 01:35 PM
hey sarah, go feminist me up a shepherd's pie.

Llamas
08-22-2006, 01:54 PM
Start to think. You're in trouble.

I mostly meant in this thread, but whatever.

Little_Miss_1565
08-22-2006, 02:08 PM
It's only red meat you don't eat or sea food as well? I mean, sea food is very light, it can't possibly kill you.

Also, don't you think that, with moderation, nearly any diet can be healthy?


How about just eating everything in moderation and be healthy?

OK. Looking back, Preocupado was asking me a question, which generally mean that statement is directed towards me, and then you tagged that bit on. I really don't think it's hard to see how I might have taken that as you piggybacking onto his question, which is, by the way, an extremely annoying question--'No meat? Not even fish?' Eat me.



And to be honest, the entire why I eat meat/dont eat meat is absolutely annoying. And if everyone can state their opinion, I can, too. And I will. And I just did. The end.

Yes, it is annoying, which is why I get really pissed off and annoyed when some people (I'll be more clear this time-->VLAD) get shitty with me. But I'll state again, if you're going to piggyback your opinion onto something else, you can't expect for it to be taken on its own out of the context of everything around it.

But I get now that this is what's really the issue at hand:

And, you are one of the few people who respect me so it's a little difficult for me to let lose when I just KNOW 100% that I am right. That doesnt happen very often so I dont give up on these rare occasions.

Nina, no one doesn't respect you, so I don't understand why you're throwing yourself a pity-party.

HornyPope
08-22-2006, 03:02 PM
You people look too much into it.

I said to Sarah what I wanted. She is fully entitled to feel offended, I won`t pretend I tried to spare her feelings in the first place. But i`ll keep on saying that stuff because I want to, unless it`s really bothering her.

But point is, my knock isn`t on Sarah or even vegetarians per se, I just really don`t like the mentality where your own preference to food comes ahead of making food for children. For instance, If i was car-sick and really, really hated going on cars, but my kids needed a ride to hockey practice, I would still drive them. Obviously, I would arrange alternative means of transporation wherever possible--public, friends, wife--but I would never, ever rule out the transportation for kids on the ground that it makes me sick. My nausea just isn`t fucking important enough.

Little_Miss_1565
08-22-2006, 03:05 PM
But point is, my knock isn`t on Sarah or even vegetarians per se, I just really don`t like the mentality where your own preference to food comes ahead of making food for children.

Ahem.


It's really a matter of personal choice. I'd prefer my babies to eat vegetarian food, but I'm not going to force my dietary choices on someone who genuinely doesn't like it.

Learn to read before you get all indignant for the sake of the babies, fuckstick.

HornyPope
08-22-2006, 03:24 PM
Uhh... refusing to cook meat food is for your children is akin to forcing them to a given diet. I mean, you don`t expect a thirteen year old to say "well mom, i understand your situation perfectly, i`ll make me a steak all by myself after school hours". Like srsly!

To get back to my example, I can say "well, son, I won`t drive you to hockey because daddy is sick, but if you happen to have a friend who can drive, i`ll lend him my car." It`s just unrealistic.

Little_Miss_1565
08-22-2006, 03:26 PM
Again with the not knowing how to read. I said "prefer," not "refuse."

JohnnyNemesis
08-22-2006, 03:27 PM
Uhh... refusing to cook meat food is for your children is akin to forcing them to a given diet. I mean, you don`t expect a thirteen year old to say "well mom, i understand your situation perfectly, i`ll make me a steak all by myself after school hours". Like srsly!

To get back to my example, I can say "well, son, I won`t drive you to hockey because daddy is sick, but if you happen to have a friend who can drive, i`ll lend him my car." It`s just unrealistic.

How is refusing to cook meat is forcing a given diet on someone, whereas cooking meat isn't doing the EXACT same thing? By that logic, introduction and exclusion are the same.

Also, you're assuming that these kids are going to pop out demanding, or even needing and liking meat and that she'll be depriving them, which is...I mean, no disrespect, but the thought is laughable. What makes you think these kids will necessarily want meat?

Little_Miss_1565
08-22-2006, 03:29 PM
Also, you're assuming that these kids are going to pop out demanding, or even needing meat and that she'll be depriving them, which is...I mean, no disrespect, but the thought is laughable.

Lollercaust. It's very true.

And Vlad, if you want to go back to your driving metaphor, if I didn't know how to drive I wouldn't put my kids in the car because I would probably kill them. I'll let my ever-loving husband drive instead, because everyone knows women can't drive anyway.

Sunny
08-22-2006, 03:32 PM
why are we assuming that sarah's partner will be too stupid/lazy/incompetent to cook? i mean, who says she will be the only one in the family making food?

and a 13 year old might not be able to make steak, but they can choose their lunch at school, they can eat out with their friends, order in food when they're having a sleepover, and heat up stuff in the microwave. and it can be steak wrapped in bacon with a side of ham. amirite?

Little_Miss_1565
08-22-2006, 03:38 PM
How is refusing to cook meat is forcing a given diet on someone, whereas cooking meat isn't doing the EXACT same thing? By that logic, introduction and exclusion are the same.

Oh, and by the way, you are a genius.

HornyPope
08-22-2006, 04:29 PM
Again with the not knowing how to read. I said "prefer," not "refuse."

So you will cook for kids if they want meat?
Because you said, and I quote, "so if my kids want burgers, they'll have to make them on their own." My reading is fine, thank you.


why are we assuming that sarah's partner will be too stupid/lazy/incompetent to cook? i mean, who says she will be the only one in the family making food?

We're not. I just think a situation where kids don't eat meat at home because their mother doesn't cook is deplorable. I'm not saying it will happen... Which brings me...


Also, you're assuming that these kids are going to pop out demanding, or even needing and liking meat and that she'll be depriving them, which is...I mean, no disrespect, but the thought is laughable. What makes you think these kids will necessarily want meat?

Ditto.
If they don't want meat, that's fine. Solves everyone the problem. But if they do and their mother doesn't make it for them, that's sad.


How is refusing to cook meat is forcing a given diet on someone, whereas cooking meat isn't doing the EXACT same thing? By that logic, introduction and exclusion are the same.

What? No. Absolutly not. You can always ask your mother to make dishes without meat, but if you ask your mother to make dishes with meat and she refuses... what then?


And Vlad, if you want to go back to your driving metaphor, if I didn't know how to drive I wouldn't put my kids in the car because I would probably kill them.

I didn't say not knowing how to drive, I said being car sick.

HornyPope
08-22-2006, 04:56 PM
If the family has someone else cooking, that's fine.
If the family can afford to eat out, that's fine.
If the kids don't like meat, that's fine.
If the lack of meat in a house isn't an issue to the children, that's really, really fine. It's a great situation for all parties (including the animals! the yummi, yummi animals). Which makes my argument moot.

But what i'm getting at is this: and let's assume this situation for argument's sake: in the event that a vegeterian mother (who refuses to cook meat) raises her child (who loves meat); assuming the family can't afford to eat out nor doesn't have someone else cook for them.

How can any of you in this scenario defend the mother's refusal to cook meat dishes?

Can you honestly say you would want such woman for your mother?

And obviously this isn't the end of the world, and obviously there are more important mother traits than cooking meals, and obviously the child won't like suffer terrible agony or anything, but it's not a situation I would like.

Sunny
08-22-2006, 05:07 PM
honestly? we should assume that she has the child's best interest in mind and would never aim to harm it. soo i'm guessing the child would have a well-balanced diet and would be healthy.

i still think that even if they were pretty poor, the child would still get lunch at school, and/or would have access to stuff like meat hot pockets and pre-cooked stuff you can get at deli's. neither of these would require the mother to touch the stuff or deal with it, yet it would probably satisfy the child's meat cravings. you're not supposed to have meat 7 days a week, anyway. it's not the healthiest stuff in the world, nor is it necessary for a child's healthy development.

if she was refusing her child vegetables cause she thought veggies are icky... well, we'd have a problem.

i don't see it as a bad thing that parents try to introduce a certain diet and keep their children off of some types of food, as long as the diet is healthy.
my mom refused to buy me fast food and rarely ever bought me junk food such as soda, potato chips, candy etc. sure i was pretty pissed at the time, but now i can understand and appreciate her point.

Preocupado
08-22-2006, 05:22 PM
But what i'm getting at is this: and let's assume this situation for argument's sake: in the event that a vegeterian mother (who refuses to cook meat) raises her child (who loves meat); assuming the family can't afford to eat out nor doesn't have someone else cook for them.

How can any of you in this scenario defend the mother's refusal to cook meat dishes?
.

Then you could have a kid who beats up dogs and cats. Who knows, maybe that kid would even pick on kids with red cheeks. It's impossible to tell, but one thing is for sure: Kid wants it + mother rejects it = conflict.

What is lacking in this thread is the kid itself. Say you've been feeding your kid a vegetarian diet and then, after your family shares a meal where everybody but you is eating meat, the kid asks "Mom/Dad, why don't we eat meat?"

What would you guys say?

Sunny
08-22-2006, 05:46 PM
first of, preocupado, vegetarians aren't anemic or pale, it's a fucking myth. the kid could very well have red cheeks himself.

"kid wants + mother denies = conflict" is a fine equation. but are you saying that parents should give a kid everything it wants in order to avoid conflict? if my child wanted to eat lots of sugary food, poptarts for breakfast, soda every day, i'd be like oh fuck no. if they wanted to start drinking at 10, i'd say fuck no. if they wanted to do something i generally disapprove of, i'd be like fuck no. get it? parents should not be afraid of causing conflict just because the kid waaaaaaaants something. your method sounds like a surefire way of raising spoiled brats.

as for the "why don't we eat meat?" question, well, 1) i eat seafood but avoid other kinds of meat, so it doesn't quite apply and 2) i really really don't want to get into this for reasons that should by now be obvious. it's simply too tiring on this board. we've had this discussion before, and i'm not going to explain my beliefs to everyone one more time, because it's kind of like talking to a brick wall.

better yet, a brick wall that will ridicule you. no thanks.

Preocupado
08-22-2006, 06:36 PM
first of, preocupado, vegetarians aren't anemic or pale, it's a fucking myth. the kid could very well have red cheeks himself.

Que? I don't care. The red cheeks are about the colour of meat, it has nothing to do with that.

kid wants + mother denies = conflict

quite a change you did on my equation. I said "mother rejects". Rejection isn't about imposing limits ("deny", say no, as you took it).


as for the "why don't we eat meat?" question, well, 1) i eat seafood but avoid other kinds of meat, so it doesn't quite apply and 2) i really really don't want to get into this for reasons that should by now be obvious. it's simply too tiring on this board. we've had this discussion before, and i'm not going to explain my beliefs to everyone one more time, because it's kind of like talking to a brick wall.

You'd say that to your kid? You're a fucking monster.

Sunny
08-22-2006, 07:12 PM
it's simply too tiring on this board.


i might be a fucking monster, but you're a fucking moron.

Preocupado
08-22-2006, 07:19 PM
bah, please abstain then.

Little_Miss_1565
08-22-2006, 07:27 PM
So you will cook for kids if they want meat?
Because you said, and I quote, "so if my kids want burgers, they'll have to make them on their own." My reading is fine, thank you.

I said that following the sentence "I don't know how to cook meat." I wouldn't want to cook and serve something to a child that I don't know has been cooked safely. And besides, there's plenty of other things to cook a child.


What? No. Absolutly not. You can always ask your mother to make dishes without meat, but if you ask your mother to make dishes with meat and she refuses... what then?

Why are you acting like saying no to a child is such a terrible thing? Every parent does it now and again in many different situations. They will still have plenty of food, and it will still be full of protein and vitamins, and it will still be tasty and made with love by mom (and dad).



"kid wants + mother denies = conflict" is a fine equation. but are you saying that parents should give a kid everything it wants in order to avoid conflict? if my child wanted to eat lots of sugary food, poptarts for breakfast, soda every day, i'd be like oh fuck no. if they wanted to start drinking at 10, i'd say fuck no. if they wanted to do something i generally disapprove of, i'd be like fuck no. get it? parents should not be afraid of causing conflict just because the kid waaaaaaaants something. your method sounds like a surefire way of raising spoiled brats.

Vlad, take note, Sunny is right on. My 7 year old cousins sometimes want my beer at family BBQ's. Should I give it to them? Am I a terrible person if I don't? I mean, they WANT IT. CHILDREN SHOULD GET ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING THEY WANT WHEN IT COMES TO FOOD. Any parent is free to set whatever rules and guidelines that parent sees fit for their children. Just because you'll want to serve your children Lucky Charms with bacon bits on top with beer instead of milk (BUT THEY AAASKED FOR IT) doesn't mean I'm going to want to do the same for mine. And it doesn't mean that my children are going to be worse off for living in a vegetarian house. If I don't marry a vegetarian, well, then it won't be a vegetarian house, but I'll cross that bridge when I get to it. This seems to be a good time to mention, you've said nothing about my concession that if I marry an omnivore, he would most likely cook meat for our children. Is this because men don't cook in your world?

Ultimately, I really resent your attempts at being a food nazi and pray you never have children, and pity your poor future wife who will have to cook every last bit of food for you, since you don't seem to believe in men being able to cook for themselves.

HornyPope
08-22-2006, 11:24 PM
i
my mom refused to buy me fast food and rarely ever bought me junk food such as soda, potato chips, candy etc. sure i was pretty pissed at the time, but now i can understand and appreciate her point.

That's fine, restricting a diet and limiting food quantities is absolutly fine. As long as she didn't say you're never, ever getting junk food from her because she has a problem with say the capitalists behind the manefacture, and her problem with the said capitalist is apperantly more important than giving you food.


I said that following the sentence "I don't know how to cook meat." I wouldn't want to cook and serve something to a child that I don't know has been cooked safely. And besides, there's plenty of other things to cook a child.

Well if it came down to that, your responsability is to make sure the food is safe. Yes, that includes tasting it.
And yes, i'm aware there are plenty of other things to cook for a child, but THATS NOT THE POINT.

Now, you seem to be dancing around the point like you always do, which is highly fucking annoying, because i've put the issue in perspective and I explained where am I getting at exactly. With this in mind...


Why are you acting like saying no to a child is such a terrible thing? Every parent does it now and again in many different situations. They will still have plenty of food, and it will still be full of protein and vitamins, and it will still be tasty and made with love by mom (and dad).

No, I don't think saying "no" to a child is bad.
I think saying "no" to a child because your moral convictions and your own personal taste trump his access to food is bad. That's the terrible thing I act about. When you're so concerned with eating meat, you refuse outright to cook it for a child.


Vlad, take note, Sunny is right on. My 7 year old cousins sometimes want my beer at family BBQ's. Should I give it to them? Am I a terrible person if I don't? I mean, they WANT IT. CHILDREN SHOULD GET ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING THEY WANT WHEN IT COMES TO FOOD. Any parent is free to set whatever rules and guidelines that parent sees fit for their children. Just because you'll want to serve your children Lucky Charms with bacon bits on top with beer instead of milk (BUT THEY AAASKED FOR IT) doesn't mean I'm going to want to do the same for mine.

No, I never said children should get anything they want. You're welcome to set any rules you like, naturally, but when in you're rules you're more concerned about your own relationship with meat than you are concerned about putting food for your kids, that's a selfish stance from a mother's point of view, to say the very least.


Ultimately, I really resent your attempts at being a food nazi and pray you never have children, and pity your poor future wife who will have to cook every last bit of food for you, since you don't seem to believe in men being able to cook for themselves.

My philosphy applies to the man just as much. If a man is raising a children, and he's a vegetarian, and he says "son, i won't cook for you meat because i'm a vegetarian", and the kid says "but dad, i want chicken. you know i never have a chance to eat meat elsewhere", and the man says "well too bad, because i'm a vegetarian and I refuse to cook meat", my response to the guy is TO SUCK IT UP and provide for his son.
The gender has absolutly nothing to do with it, don't even fucking try and twist it so it looks like i'm hating on women.

Sunny
08-22-2006, 11:42 PM
I think saying "no" to a child because your moral convictions and your own personal taste trump his access to food is bad.

i think this would be a valid concern if Sarah had a "NO MEAT IN MY HOUSE EVERRR" rule for her future family. the thing is, it seems like she won't.

perhaps I am not quite ready to have a kid yet (well, i know i'm not), because the notion of sacrificing your personal beliefs and moral convictions for the child doesn't sound all that reasonable to me. Of course, we're not talking about beliefs that would harm or disadvantage the child... but why shouldn't parents be able to maintain their moral integrity while caring for the child? (assuming they can keep the child perfectly healthy).

moral concerns aside.. here's a little personal story. my husband is the one who cooks in our household... most of the time. and he hates seafood with a fiery passion. like, can't stand to be around it. so if we had a child, the poor little thing would be totally deprived of shrimp, lobster, mussels and all that good stuff because daddy is too grossed out by sea creatures to come in direct contact with them.

and frankly, i don't see a problem with that, nor would i think he's selfish or that he'd make a bad father. he hates the shit. i don't see why he should have gag and make it anyway for the kid if stuff can be easily ordered ready to eat. ya know?

HornyPope
08-23-2006, 12:00 AM
i don't see why he should have gag and make it anyway for the kid if stuff can be easily ordered ready to eat.

That's assuming you can afford to order it. Because if you have a way to provide for your child without having to suffer, GREAT. PROBLEM SOLVED!

But what if the child had no or barely any access to sea food, and you can't provide it yourself for whatever fictious reason, and Charlie outright refuses to make any for the child, would you not say "get over yourself you fucking wimp, and make the kid some sea food"? Would you be more concerned with what your kid eats or with Charlie's alergies?


perhaps I am not quite ready to have a kid yet (well, i know i'm not), because the notion of sacrificing your personal beliefs and moral convictions for the child doesn't sound all that reasonable to me.

Yeah, that's bad. My opinion is if you place your moral convictions ahead of a child, you're probably a bad mother.
That isn't to say you can make it up elsewhere, because one act doesn't define motherhood, obviously. But the mere mentality where your moral convictions take higher priority than your kid's well-being is wrong.

Sunny
08-23-2006, 12:11 AM
i still don't think the mother's refusal to cook meat is a threat to the child's wellbeing in the first place.

i would think that the child's being would be equal, not greater, in importance to mine. i would respect their beliefs and expect the same in return. perhaps this would make me a shitty mother... but then again, i'm not planning on making little baby redheads anytime soon, so i don't feel too bad.

regarding charlie's hatred of seafood... well, first of, i would do my best to avoid having a child until i'm at a point in my life when i can provide for it and not suffer. i don't think i'd want to breed if i wasn't able to order in food.

if i couldn't order seafood, i'd make it myself. if i couldn't make it myself... i don't think i'd want to force charlie to do something that grosses him out beyond belief. while the child's wellbeing is important, so is the wellbeing and comfort level of my husband. i'm sure the child be just fine without an oyster platter, anyway.

HornyPope
08-23-2006, 12:24 AM
i still don't think the mother's refusal to cook meat is a threat to the child's wellbeing in the first place.

It's not, it's the mentality behind it.


i don't think i'd want to force charlie to do something that grosses him out beyond belief. while the child's wellbeing is important, so is the wellbeing and comfort level of my husband.

Forcing is a strong measure and probably counter-productive, but wouldn't you feel inclined to tell Charlie to just suck it up and make an effort two-three times a year? Wouldn't you have a problem if he never, ever made sea food for the kids?

Sunny
08-23-2006, 12:34 AM
really, i don't think i'd be bothered. if someone is a good, caring father who loves his children and does his best to provide for them otherwise, i don't feel something so minor should become a problem.

HornyPope
08-23-2006, 12:38 AM
I don't think it's a big problem, but I think it's a wrong. It's a wrong mentality. You don't agree?

Sunny
08-23-2006, 12:47 AM
I think it could be a harmful mentality if taken to unreasonable levels. however, in the instances we discussed, such is not the case.

HornyPope
08-23-2006, 12:53 AM
Well i'm serious about my meat.

And Polish sausages are awesome btw, If I haven't yet pointed it out.

Little_Miss_1565
08-23-2006, 07:55 AM
Way to completely avoid what I said YET AGAIN about a meat-eating husband being free to cook whatever meat he wanted for my kids, in moderation and reason. And *I'm* dancing around an argument?

Bottom line is I am able to set whatever guidelines I want for my children, and if I felt meat was harmful and gross, I don't have to feed it to my children so long as they are still getting proper nutrition. I was fat and unhealthy when I ate meat. I don't want my kids to be fat and unhealthy. Other people might not be fat and unhealthy when they ate meat, but my genetics made me process meat in a certain way, and chances are anything that carries half my genetic code will too. I'm not going to let them have Lucky Charms every morning, and I"m not going to cook them a steak whenever they want.

The reason I'm getting so angry about this is because you're implying that I will be an unfit mother because I don't want to cook meat. Or, rather, you're not implying it but saying it outright. Incredibly small-minded, not to mention nosy since it's no fucking business of yours.

As for your issues with Charlie not cooking seafood, what gives? There's no Vitamin Seafood they're going to suffer and die without. They can have fish at restaurants, barbecues, whatever else, without him having to cook it. Martyring himself for zero benefit to his children makes absolutely no sense.

JohnnyNemesis
08-23-2006, 09:01 AM
I'm not going to argue anymore because we're definitely going around in circles here.

I just think that it was a bit insensitive to tell Sarah that she'd be an unfit mother for the whole thing. Sure, it's your opinion, and we all know how much honesty is valued over tact on this BBS, but it's still stepping over one of them lines, in my opinion.

Sin Studly
08-23-2006, 09:04 AM
we all know how much honesty is valued over tact on this BBS, but it's still stepping over one of them lines, in my opinion.

Think of the children. If we don't tell her she's going to be a neglectful abusive parent unless she changes her priorities, who will?

Llamas
08-23-2006, 11:18 AM
Guess what? I hate most kinds of meat, minus chicken and ham. My parents raised me, FORCING me to eat meat at every single meal. No matter how much I disliked pork, I had to eat it. And guess what? I'm perfectly fine. Now that I live on my own, I'm able to eat as little meat as I want, and I'm not bitter at my parents. When my parents didn't cook for me, I'd always get vegetarian stuff cause I've always liked vegetables better. My parents didn't prepare a LOT of food for us due to the fact that they didn't like it or didn't like preparing it. Oh, the humanity! I got the kinds of food they didn't prepare elsewhere. And you can't say that not making meat is any different by saying you're "depriving" your child... the children can grow up every bit as healthy without ever eating meat. There would be nothing wrong even if sarah said to her family, "I am never making meals with meat in them, and I don't want meat brought into this house." If the kids wanted it, they'd still get it outside of home pretty easily.

Also, I don't see anything wrong with the mentality. What if a parent's moral objection was against having promiscuous sex and drinking beer underage? Should the parent step aside and allow things to happen because she/he doesn't want to allow his/her moral opinions to affect the kid? I know that's an extreme example, but still.

Endymion
08-23-2006, 11:32 AM
my mother hates peas so she never, ever cooked something that had peas in it. was that abusive?

Betty
08-23-2006, 12:58 PM
I was deprived of mayonnaise (Light Miracle Whip only!) and fresh salmon as a child. Now that I'm on my own and have discovered it, I can't get enough!

My ex-boyfriend had never eaten CHEESE (like, a slice of cheese) or about 50% of the veggies you can buy at the store before I met him.

Tons of parents out there order fastfood every night or make frozen dinners. That can't be good.

Point is, I'm not going to get into the health benefits (or lack thereof) of a vegetarian diet, but there are a ton of kids out there with awful eating habits. A ton! It's not just an isolated case of vegetarian parents... it's a fact of life that parents will obviously instill their life habits on their children cause that's how they live.

I would like to add one comment though for the mothers out there and that is that babies need fat. So even if you're used to consuming ultra low fat everything (which I've been starting to do, e.g. skim milk, low fat dairy, becel instead of butter -- but I like butter, etc, etc), the babies do need fat for brain development so give it to 'em.

Tizzalicious
08-23-2006, 01:21 PM
I really don't see the problem either. Lots of parents don't cook something they don't like for their children, that doesn't mean the kid is missing out on something. In the case of meat, the parents should just make sure their kids do get all the nutritions they need, if they do, there's no problem. There are enough meat substitutes.

This doesn't just go for meat, but for anything a parent might not like, or doesn't want to cook. Just as long as they replace it with something so there won't be lack of vitamins etc., it really shouldn't be a problem.

You won't see me cooking seafood. If my kids would want it, they can go eat it somewhere else. I'm sure they won't starve.

Little_Miss_1565
08-23-2006, 01:46 PM
the health benefits (or lack thereof) of a vegetarian diet

That was unneccesary. We're not discussing which diet is better for children here. Besides, did I seem unhealthy to you? Don't dis my eating choices and I won't dis yours.

Llamas
08-23-2006, 01:50 PM
she wasn't dissing it. she was giving her opinion, something that didn't seem at all like a jab.

Little_Miss_1565
08-23-2006, 01:56 PM
she wasn't dissing it. she was giving her opinion, something that didn't seem at all like a jab.

Well, she doesn't need to tell me that her opinion is that my diet is unhealthy.

Sin Studly
08-23-2006, 01:58 PM
That was unneccesary. We're not discussing which diet is better for children here. Besides, did I seem unhealthy to you? Don't dis my eating choices and I won't dis yours.

Are you a baby? Newsflash, your dietary requirements aren't the same as that of babies, toddlers, children. And those little'uns will end up brain-damaged if they don't get their lard.

Serious question though ; what's you opinion on the people who make their dogs vegetarian?

Llamas
08-23-2006, 02:01 PM
aren't dogs carnivorous? they need a lot more protein than humans. that's seriously fucked up.

HornyPope
08-23-2006, 02:12 PM
Way to miss the point, everyone. Sunny understood where I was going, then everyone after her failed miserably.

Well, i'm not repeating everything. Read it fucking again.


Way to completely avoid what I said YET AGAIN about a meat-eating husband being free to cook whatever meat he wanted for my kids, in moderation and reason. And *I'm* dancing around an argument?

Because this doesn't fucking matter, how many times do I have to repeat myself that if kids have access to meat through either another parent, a cook, a restaurant, school or whatever, then the point is moot.

WHERE THE ISSUE IS IF THE KIDS DONT HAVE ACCESS TO MEAT AND THEIR MOTHER REFUSES TO PROVIDE THEM.

Little_Miss_1565
08-23-2006, 02:12 PM
Dogs are omnivores, just like humans. They can go either way and still be perfectly healthy. Cats, however, are total carnivores, and I think it's cruel to try and make a cat be vegetarian.

Little_Miss_1565
08-23-2006, 02:14 PM
WHERE THE ISSUE IS IF THE KIDS DONT HAVE ACCESS TO MEAT AND THEIR MOTHER REFUSES TO PROVIDE THEM.

Jesus christ, are you really this willfully dence? Where has that ever actually been at issue anywhere in this thread? You are getting your hypothetical knickers in an unbelievable twist over an irrelevant hypothetical situation. Besides, the hypothetical mother has a very real right do raise her children as she sees fit so long as their are happy and healthy.

Llamas
08-23-2006, 02:22 PM
WHERE THE ISSUE IS IF THE KIDS DONT HAVE ACCESS TO MEAT AND THEIR MOTHER REFUSES TO PROVIDE THEM.

umm, pretty sure I addressed that.


My parents didn't prepare a LOT of food for us due to the fact that they didn't like it or didn't like preparing it. Oh, the humanity! I got the kinds of food they didn't prepare elsewhere. And you can't say that not making meat is any different by saying you're "depriving" your child... the children can grow up every bit as healthy without ever eating meat. There would be nothing wrong even if sarah said to her family, "I am never making meals with meat in them, and I don't want meat brought into this house."

also


Also, I don't see anything wrong with the mentality. What if a parent's moral objection was against having promiscuous sex and drinking beer underage? Should the parent step aside and allow things to happen because she/he doesn't want to allow his/her moral opinions to affect the kid? I know that's an extreme example, but still.

HornyPope
08-23-2006, 02:23 PM
It's been THE issue since I first posted it...

Right after you replied to my question, in my first reply then, on the first page of the thread, I said :

"I can't in my head accept a mother whose more concerned about how grossed out she is than feeding her kids"

HornyPope
08-23-2006, 02:24 PM
Llama, i'll be honest with you, I never read your post.

Llamas
08-23-2006, 02:26 PM
clearly you just did?

EDIT: you've also replied to several of my posts in the past.

Sin Studly
08-23-2006, 02:28 PM
Dogs are omnivores, just like humans. They can go either way and still be perfectly healthy.

Dogs require a very small amount of vegetation, which, in the wild, they would get from devouring the stomach contents of the animals they kill.

You failed to answer my question. What's yo opinion on people with vegetarian dogs?

Betty
08-23-2006, 02:29 PM
That was unneccesary. We're not discussing which diet is better for children here. Besides, did I seem unhealthy to you? Don't dis my eating choices and I won't dis yours.

Geez Sarah, I've had this debate with you on here a gazillion times so I'm sure you know my opinion already, which means that even if I'm nice about it, you know what I think so can take it offensively regardless. I wasn't making a jab at all, in fact I was much more trying to put in a defense that the whole "morality as a parent" argument is kinda ridiculous since all parents end up influencing their children based on their own lifestyle, regardless of what that lifestyle is.

My comment about NOT GETTING INTO the "health benefits (or lack thereof)" was to point out that I wasn't going to get into it, hence not judging the diet (even though, as I've said, I have judged it in the past). And I agree that the "lack thereof" part may sound a bit like a jab... and I hadn't included it initially, but otherwise it sounds like I'm claiming that there ARE health benefits... (which there are) but this way I'm just pointing out that you can obviously debate the health benefits, or, well, the lack thereof, if one choose to do so. Which I didn't. Also, I wanted to make the fat comment because I think it's a good thing to know, since we're on the topic.

Anyway, I don't want to sound bitchy, I hate sounding bitchy, but I think the whole jumping down my throat thing was a little unnecessary. I think that simply by having different diets, people are inherently disagreeing with those of others. It's like how I can't believe somebody of a certain religion can really "fully accept" the religious choices of another even if they claim they do. I'm not going to say anything about it, cause I already have. So I'd rather you not make it sound like I did.

HornyPope
08-23-2006, 02:31 PM
clearly you just did?

EDIT: you've also replied to several of my posts in the past.

"Read" was in past, not present tense.

I skipped it when I woke up and I saw like ten-fiften replies since my post last night, so I read the rest and skimmed yours because I assumed it would be garbagabe.

Ironicly, yours was actually the most to the point. I'm shocked.

Little_Miss_1565
08-23-2006, 02:33 PM
Dogs require a very small amount of vegetation, which, in the wild, they would get from devouring the stomach contents of the animals they kill.

You failed to answer my question. What's yo opinion on people with vegetarian dogs?

My opinion is that if a veterinarian doesn't give the owners a hard time, I'm not going to.

Little_Miss_1565
08-23-2006, 02:37 PM
My comment about NOT GETTING INTO the "health benefits (or lack thereof)" was to point out that I wasn't going to get into it, hence not judging the diet (even though, as I've said, I have judged it in the past). And I agree that the "lack thereof" part may sound a bit like a jab... and I hadn't included it initially, but otherwise it sounds like I'm claiming that there ARE health benefits... (which there are)

If you really didn't want to get into it, you didn't need to mention the phrase "health benefits" at all, let alone throw a "lack thereof" in there, and there's a lot more you could have done to avoid saying there are health benefits without throwing that parenthetical phrase in there.

Sin Studly
08-23-2006, 02:39 PM
My opinion is that if a veterinarian doesn't give the owners a hard time, I'm not going to.

Veterinarians earn money off not giving owners a hard time, because owners will quite happily change veterinarians.

But anyways, yes or no answer ; do you disapprove of people forcing their canines to be vegetarian because they are?

HeadAroundU
08-23-2006, 02:41 PM
If you really didn't want to get into it, you didn't need to mention the phrase "health benefits" at all, let alone throw a "lack thereof" in there, and there's a lot more you could have done to avoid saying there are health benefits without throwing that parenthetical phrase in there.
srsly WTF!?

Little_Miss_1565
08-23-2006, 02:42 PM
Just leave me alone, Justin, I really don't have the energy to get trolled right now.

Betty
08-23-2006, 02:43 PM
Fine, I'll agree. I could have avoided the issue entirely. I could have avoided the thread entirely. I almost did.

But I was talking about the baby thing today and so wanted to make the comment... and that led to making other comments... and well... I don't think the reaction was warranted simply because I brought up the fact that there was an issue at hand, when I didn't even comment on the issue.

HeadAroundU
08-23-2006, 02:48 PM
Meat FTW!
I don't want my kids to be sissykicking fags.

Sin Studly
08-23-2006, 02:50 PM
Just leave me alone, Justin, I really don't have the energy to get trolled right now.

I'm asking a simple yes-or-no question. It's the only contribution I've made to this thread that isn't trolling. You had the energy to directly answer me, but avoid the question. Surely you can work up the energy to say 'yes' or 'no'.

Llamas
08-23-2006, 02:52 PM
I love discussing the topic of vegetarianism. it's too bad it's uncivilized 99% of the time because people like to judge and jab and say their opinions are right. I'm not vegetarian and never will be, but I'm always willing to learn more.

HornyPope
08-23-2006, 02:52 PM
Since when do you care, Justin? You don't have morals.

HornyPope
08-23-2006, 03:04 PM
Here, i'll entertain you lllama. I'm not answering to the first paragraph because i've dealt it with it more than I thought I would in this thread, but here's a response to the second.


Also, I don't see anything wrong with the mentality. What if a parent's moral objection was against having promiscuous sex and drinking beer underage? Should the parent step aside and allow things to happen because she/he doesn't want to allow his/her moral opinions to affect the kid? I know that's an extreme example, but still.

My concern isn't with a parent forcing his mentality on a child, my concern is why he's doing it. If you think drinking and promiscious sex is moraly apprehensible and you want your kids to stay away from it, that's a POV I can respect. I'll disagree, but I can respect it, because you have your child's interest at heart.

What I don't respect is if you set rules for reasons other than the child's best interests. If for instance, you have a problem with beer manufacturers and you protest agaisnt it by not consuming it, and then extend your self-imposed ban on the child, that's wrong. Because you're more concerned about your relationship with the beer than you are concerned with what the child needs.

Little_Miss_1565
08-23-2006, 03:05 PM
I don't think the reaction was warranted simply because I brought up the fact that there was an issue at hand, when I didn't even comment on the issue.

You did make a comment on the issue, Michelle. The "lack thereof" is a comment.

Little_Miss_1565
08-23-2006, 03:06 PM
I'm asking a simple yes-or-no question. It's the only contribution I've made to this thread that isn't trolling. You had the energy to directly answer me, but avoid the question. Surely you can work up the energy to say 'yes' or 'no'.

I don't have the energy for what I'm sure will follow a "yes" or "no," Justin, now please leave me alone.


What I don't respect is if you set rules for reasons other than the child's best interests. If for instance, you have a problem with beer manufacturers and you protest agaisnt it by not consuming it, and then extend your self-imposed ban on the child, that's wrong. Because you're more concerned about your relationship with the beer than you are concerned with what the child needs.

...since when is beer on the list of things a child needs?

H1T_That
08-23-2006, 03:09 PM
And there was me thinking this thread would be full of recipes and cooking hints. I seemed to be wrong.

HornyPope
08-23-2006, 03:10 PM
Oh fucking Jeshu ben(sic) Joseph, I KNEW I should write a disclaimer after the beer sentance saying "it doesn't constitute a need for a child, i'm just using it as an example".

HeadAroundU
08-23-2006, 03:11 PM
You did make a comment on the issue, Michelle. The "lack thereof" is a comment.
Huge sensitive clitoris today?

Little_Miss_1565
08-23-2006, 03:13 PM
OH don't get all flustered for someone pointing it out, it wasn't a good example.

Anyway. Parents have been imposing their moral will on their children since the dawn of time, and I'm really not seeing how you can differentiate between choices on food and choices on behavior, as each has reasons that could be considered morals behind them.

HornyPope
08-23-2006, 03:14 PM
Maybe, but cooking is a parent's obligation towards their children.

HeadAroundU
08-23-2006, 03:14 PM
And there was me thinking this thread would be full of recipes and cooking hints. I seemed to be wrong.
Full of recipes indeed. :)

Betty
08-23-2006, 03:15 PM
I explained what I was trying to say, and I think I may have said it poorly. Maybe something like "I'm not going to debate the advantages or disadvantages..." sounds a little more neutral, but that's how I meant it to sound. Seriously, I mean it. If I come out and say I apologize for getting a little carried away with my wording will you forgive? Pretty please?

Little_Miss_1565
08-23-2006, 03:16 PM
I explained what I was trying to say, and I think I may have said it poorly. Maybe something like "I'm not going to debate the advantages or disadvantages..." sounds a little more neutral, but that's how I meant it to sound. Seriously, I mean it. If I come out and say I apologize for getting a little carried away with my wording will you forgive? Pretty please?

Sure. Thanks.

Llamas
08-23-2006, 03:22 PM
Maybe, but cooking is a parent's obligation towards their children.

The thing is, she hasn't said she's never going to cook for her kids. That's a need, and if she said that, we'd have a problem. Cooking meat is not a need... it's really just not.

HeadAroundU
08-23-2006, 03:23 PM
If I come out and say I apologize for getting a little carried away with my wording will you forgive? Pretty please?
NO! NO! NO!
There is no reason to apologize. You are weak.

but I found this sentence to be very cute!!!
"the babies do need fat for brain development so give it to 'em." :)

HornyPope
08-23-2006, 03:25 PM
I think it is (a need). Just because kids won't die without meat doesn't mean they don't need it in their diet. I don't believe remplacing it with veggycrap will substitute meat entierly for a growing kid.

Nina
08-23-2006, 03:28 PM
NO! NO! NO!
There is no reason to apologize.

I agree with him.
I'm really fucking dense but I understood what Betty meant immediatelly.

HornyPope
08-23-2006, 03:30 PM
So did I, but it's usualy very common for a person to get defensive in a thread where an argument is in its height.

Nina
08-23-2006, 03:30 PM
Yeah, I guess so. I would have shot everyone if I was in her position.

Llamas
08-23-2006, 03:33 PM
I believe that as long as you do a very good, calculated job of making sure your children take all the proper supplements that they're missing from meat, then it's fine for them to not eat meat. But I will agree that children need a LOT more protein and a lot more meat supplements than adults, and if you don't do a damn carefuly job of making sure they get all those supplements to the full quantity, then you might be depriving them. Just because vegetarians can be dangerous for children (very dangerous, as they can easily get diseases. It's much different for adults).

nieh
08-23-2006, 03:36 PM
I don't believe remplacing it with veggycrap will substitute meat entierly for a growing kid.

This sounds like the perfect example of the word 'truthiness'. There's tons of options out there to get the nutrients that would normally be provided by meat. There's no reason why a child would need meat unless they're in a relatively unique situation where they have an intolerance or an allergy to the other types of food or something along those lines.

Little_Miss_1565
08-23-2006, 03:57 PM
This sounds like the perfect example of the word 'truthiness'. There's tons of options out there to get the nutrients that would normally be provided by meat. There's no reason why a child would need meat unless they're in a relatively unique situation where they have an intolerance or an allergy to the other types of food or something along those lines.

Excellent use of a great word, Josh.

HornyPope
08-23-2006, 06:37 PM
Why do I feel that the only reason people argue against me is because they want to defend vegetarian mothers?

I feel the only essense in your posts is to make sure a minority group's choice of lifestyle isn't targeted. Fucking liberals.

So I ask you. Who here who usualy eats at home and loves to eat meat can honestly say they wouldn't have a problem with their mother never, ever feeding them meat meals because she is herself a vegetarian?

Again, I'll say for a disclaimer so I don't have to deal with idiotic arguments in the future; I don't think this alone makes her a bad mother, and I don't think you be will be tragically hurt as a result of this decision, and i'm sure you could still turn out healthy.

But will it not make you upset?

And don't respond with analogy about other types of food like "fast food" because it's a completly different type. And if you can't understand why the two are wholly different types in this context, don't bother replying at all.

nieh
08-23-2006, 06:46 PM
So I ask you. Who here who usualy eats at home and loves to eat meat can honestly say they wouldn't have a problem with their mother never, ever feeding them meat meals because she is herself a vegetarian?

If I was raised from birth never getting meat at home I doubt I would miss it. Of course if the kid absolutely can't stand the taste of whatever vegetarian food you're giving them and they refuse to eat it, then exceptions should be made and the mom should put effort into learning to cook other things rather than forcing it upon the kid (provided the husband/other mom/whoever doesn't already know how to cook other things).

Little_Miss_1565
08-23-2006, 06:59 PM
Josh, you are a breath of fresh air and reason.

HornyPope
08-23-2006, 07:04 PM
That's such bullshit. If you like food then you like the food, this isn't by any means an acquired taste. I mean there are people who are neutral to meat, yes, but the many of who like meat eat will still like meat regardless of how they are raised.

Little_Miss_1565
08-23-2006, 07:15 PM
Vlad, I'm really tired of your "because I said so" logic. There are all kinds of things I don't like, possibly because my mother never cooked them for me--liver and other offal (when I still ate meat), and beets. And holy crap--she didn't cook them because she didn't like them!

TheUnholyNightbringer
08-23-2006, 07:16 PM
I saw "Cooking With Sarah" and I expected pictures. I was disappointed.

Little_Miss_1565
08-23-2006, 07:17 PM
I saw "Cooking With Sarah" and I expected pictures. I was disappointed.

Someday. Someday. And on that day, it better be "Cooking with Sarah and Ryan"

TheUnholyNightbringer
08-23-2006, 07:18 PM
But then who will take the photos?

JohnnyNemesis
08-23-2006, 07:19 PM
That's such bullshit. If you like food then you like the food

No, what he said is still true. If you're not all that familiar with meat in the first place, the desire for it isn't going to really come up, so the point is moot for a different reason.

It's not an issue of meat being an acquired taste, it's an issue of familiarity.

nieh
08-23-2006, 07:21 PM
That's such bullshit. If you like food then you like the food, this isn't by any means an acquired taste. I mean there are people who are neutral to meat, yes, but the many of who like meat eat will still like meat regardless of how they are raised.

Actually a lot of foods ARE acquired tastes. Also, when did this go from a kid needing meat to just liking meat? Anyway, if they never had meat growing up, how would they know they like it? It's not like they're born instantly having a craving for steak or pork chops or fried chicken. Typically when you get a craving for a certain food it's because your body wants certain things that are in that food. If your body is conditioned to get certain nutrients from a type of fruit or veggie your body will say "hey, I could totally go for some tofu (or something) right now". They would never think "Hey, I could totally go for a cheeseburger right now" if they never had one.

HornyPope
08-23-2006, 07:24 PM
There are all kinds of things I don't like, possibly because my mother never cooked them for me--liver and other offal (when I still ate meat), and beets.

What does that prove? Yes, there are people who possibly wouldn't appriciate a meal unless they are raised on it, but the rest of us eat a given food because we find it delicious, not because it brings fuzzy memories of how our momma used to cook.

HornyPope
08-23-2006, 07:26 PM
The kid will eat a meat meal at ONE point in his life, why are you fucking making retarded arguments "well if he doesnt eat meat, he never knows what's he's missing!". I mean, be realistic in your situations.

And this, was directed at Josh and Johnny.

coke_a_holic
08-23-2006, 07:30 PM
I don't really understand what the argument is about. Sarah can raise her kids however she wants to, and if she can't cook meat then it's not under her power to cook meat for the children. There's not really much else to add to that, and it doesn't make much sense to get in such a big fight about it...

nieh
08-23-2006, 07:31 PM
The kid will eat a meat meal at ONE point in his life, why are you fucking making retarded arguments "well if he doesnt eat meat, he never knows what's he's missing!". I mean, be realistic in your situations.

At some point he will yes, but for the first few years nearly every meal he eats will be one that's prepared at home or where the family orders food from a restaurant. The parents have total control over that and the kid never becomes exposed to the stuff until his body has already been conditioned into wanting certain things. If the kid ends up eating meat and greatly prefers it over the vegetarian alternative then I say the one in charge of cooking at home should make the effort to learn how to cook it but there's absolutely no reason why they should be forced to learn it the instant they get knocked up.

HornyPope
08-23-2006, 07:32 PM
It's not like I personally give a shit, but i'm making an argument on a general and specific situation but no one can admit he would be upset if his parents never cooked meat.

Little_Miss_1565
08-23-2006, 07:33 PM
What does that prove? Yes, there are people who possibly wouldn't appriciate a meal unless they are raised on it, but the rest of us eat a given food because we find it delicious, not because it brings fuzzy memories of how our momma used to cook.

Wow, I thought a mother was the only source of food for a child in your world. Anyway, I tried beets at dinner one night this weekend and I didn't really like them. Is it because I genuinely don't like beets, or because I'd never had them before in my life?

I still have absolutely no idea why you're so troubled with the lives of other people. What possibly could your parents have deprived you of that you would be so embittered against other people not letting their children have certain things?

HornyPope
08-23-2006, 07:39 PM
but there's absolutely no reason why they should be forced to learn it the instant they get knocked up.

I AM NOT FUCKING SAYING THAT.

Fucking stop trying to force out arguments like you were a fucking Liberal spokesperon.

I don't one bit force anyone to do what they don't want to do.

If you don't agree your moral and progressive ideas about meat are less important than giving your child a balanced diet that happens to include meat, that's your opinion. Just fucking say that, but don't bring in stupid arguments as if my speech is threathing vegetarians everywhere.

HornyPope
08-23-2006, 07:43 PM
Wow, I thought a mother was the only source of food for a child in your world.

Did you at all read what I said?


I still have absolutely no idea why you're so troubled with the lives of other people.

I'm not, I'm just getting my opinion out, as unwelcome as it may be, but basicly i'm just holding my stance. What shocks is how people insist on defending vegetarians instead of admitting the simple truth.

Little_Miss_1565
08-23-2006, 07:46 PM
What shocks is how people insist on defending vegetarians instead of admitting the simple truth.

Wow. Just...wow. Doesn't even occur to you that perhaps you're not right when people who aren't directly involved in this argument come in not on your side.

HornyPope
08-23-2006, 07:53 PM
How is this relevant? There is nothing gayer than to determine one's right by a head count.

nieh
08-23-2006, 07:54 PM
Bullshit. You keep trying to claim that you need meet to give them a healthy balanced diet and that she's probably going to hurt her kids if she doesn't do that and that's just not true. When I called you on that, you turned the arguement to LIKING meat instead of NEEDING meat and when I called you on that you avoid it and call me a Liberal? Of course you're not forcing her to do something she doesn't want. She lives in another country than you and you wouldn't have any control over her even if she didn't. You have absolutely no problem though letting her know just how wrong she is over a decision that doesn't even matter because she doesn't have any kids yet. Also, she even agreed with me when I said if the kid refuses to eat the vegetarian stuff then effort should be made to give them other stuff. There's no reason why the parents' morals and ideas should be brought into question unless they are actually doing their kids harm which with vegetarians just isn't the case unless there are unique circumstances (which also happen with MEAT by the way).

Little_Miss_1565
08-23-2006, 08:01 PM
How is this relevant? There is nothing gayer than to determine one's right by a head count.

You're not exercising a right; you're exercising a grudge. If you really think you're going to change anyone's mind by expressing your "opinion" that you know better than anyone else how people should live their own lives, good luck with that.

HornyPope
08-23-2006, 08:01 PM
You're mixing two different things all together.

I think meat is an important part of a person's diet. Yes we need meat, and just because you can remplace it doesn't mean it's a good alternative. The reason I don't want to argue about it because it's a stupid argument, because then it becomes vegetarians vs carnivores and i'm not one bit eager to get into that.

But what I said about LIKING meat, it's because I want people to admit that if they like meat, they will be upset if their parents didn't make them meat.

And this isn't about Sarah, stop fucking trying to defend her like i'm harassing her.

HornyPope
08-23-2006, 08:03 PM
You're not exercising a right; you're exercising a grudge. If you really think you're going to change anyone's mind by expressing your "opinion" that you know better than anyone else how people should live their own lives, good luck with that.

I'm not American you fucking idiots, I don't talk on the message board because it's a right I belive in under the constitution. I argue because I fucking enjoy it, and I will argue for as long as I want to.

If you're offended, I can stop because my intention isn't to get this one out of hands. But it's just so frustrating when you respond to me like you were debating in your High school class.

This is so pathetic.

Little_Miss_1565
08-23-2006, 08:07 PM
I'm not American you fucking idiots, I don't talk on the message board because it's a right I belive in under the constitution. I argue because I fucking enjoy it, and I will argue for as long as I want to.

If you're offended, I can stop because my intention isn't to get this one out of hands. But it's just so frustrating when you respond to me like you were debating in your High school class.

This is so pathetic.

Right of expression isn't an American right. There are more grantors of rights worldwide than the Constitution of the United States.

Offended? You're fucking right I"m offended. I've been offended for the last 16 pages because you started out saying I'd be unfit to parent. And you're right, I will drag this out for as long as necessary because there is no fucking way you or anyone else gets away with that. You're not the only one who can hold their own here.

nieh
08-23-2006, 08:07 PM
My diet right now pretty much consists of meat, pizza and pasta. I loves me some meat but I'm agreeing with the vegetarian because in this case you're wrong. Please explain to me, why do you think things that replace meat are not good alternatives?

HornyPope
08-23-2006, 08:11 PM
you started out saying I'd be unfit to parent.

Go over this thread and count the times I mentioned that refusing to cook meat DOES NOT MAKE YOU A BAD MOTHER. Just because I don't like one aspect in your own personal decision doesn't mean I think you're unfit to mother.


My diet right now pretty much consists of meat, pizza and pasta. I loves me some meat but I'm agreeing with the vegetarian because in this case you're wrong.

What exactly are you agreing with? That you wouldn't be upset if your parents never cooked meat in your house? Is this what you're saying?

Tell me yes or no and i'll answer your question that followed.

nieh
08-23-2006, 08:16 PM
What exactly are you agreing with? That you wouldn't be upset if your parents never cooked meat in your house? Is this what you're saying?

Tell me yes or no and i'll answer your question that followed.

I already answered that. If my parents raised me from birth without meat, I probably wouldn't miss it.

HornyPope
08-23-2006, 08:18 PM
But would you be upset? Would you be uspet you never ate meat at home? (and assuming you didnt have a chance to eat out very often)

Little_Miss_1565
08-23-2006, 08:20 PM
Go over this thread and count the times I mentioned that refusing to cook meat DOES NOT MAKE YOU A BAD MOTHER. Just because I don't like one aspect in your own personal decision doesn't mean I think you're unfit to mother.

Oh no, I won't be a bad mother, just an abusive one, is that it? Either have the balls to stick by the insults you swing or just keep your opinions to yourself.

nieh
08-23-2006, 08:22 PM
Why would I have any reason to be upset? My body was conditioned to crave fruits and veggies and if I wanted meat bad enough I'm sure I could have asked them to start cooking some for me. If I decided I wanted to eat meat and they made no effort to make it at home even after talking with them about it, then I would get upset but not before then.

HornyPope
08-23-2006, 08:23 PM
Oh no, I won't be a bad mother, just an abusive one, is that it? Either have the balls to stick by the insults you swing or just keep your opinions to yourself.

I think you can make up elsewhere. I mean everyone is upset over something his mother has done, and this is probably the least of concerns. But it's still a wrong in its own right.

HornyPope
08-23-2006, 08:26 PM
Why would I have any reason to be upset? My body was conditioned to crave fruits and veggies and if I wanted meat bad enough I'm sure I could have asked them to start cooking some for me. If I decided I wanted to eat meat and they made no effort to make it at home even after talking with them about it, then I would get upset but not before then.

Yeah but the whole point in my scenario is if they refuse outright to cook meat for you. The scenario is you can't get meat at home because your parents don't cook it, and you yourself are obviously not apt enough to take care of your diet while growing up.

I'd use exclamation marks but I already used it up all in the posts before.

Wow... Do you people even read what I said?

Little_Miss_1565
08-23-2006, 08:27 PM
I think you can make up elsewhere. I mean everyone is upset over something his mother has done, and this is probably the least of concerns. But it's still a wrong in its own right.

Ah yes, and it's not arrogant at all to tell others what's right and wrong in their own lives.

Nice poll by the way--what was it again that you said about a headcount not being proof of being right?

HornyPope
08-23-2006, 08:28 PM
I'm not denying i'm being arrogant.

I am fucking arrogant.

The poll is just to see what people say.

Little_Miss_1565
08-23-2006, 08:29 PM
Then please, fuck off already.

HornyPope
08-23-2006, 08:30 PM
Now now, are you infringing on my right to Free speech under the first amendment?

Little_Miss_1565
08-23-2006, 08:32 PM
Now now, are you infringing on my right to Free speech under the first amendment?

Nice try, you Canadian fuck. For a budding dictator, I like that you genuinely are ignorant of the Human Rights Declaration, specifically Article 19.

HornyPope
08-23-2006, 08:33 PM
But seriously, I guess no point to go much forward.

To the rest of you: if you have seriously no qualms about growing in a vegeterian family, good for you!

HornyPope
08-23-2006, 08:39 PM
I lol.

You know, you probably wouldn't get this one because you're American, but like the only people who think they are allowed to talk because of a stupid signature in a stupid charter are American.

"I CAN SAY ANYTHING I WANT ON THE INTERNET, THATS WHAT FREEDOM OF SPEECH IS FOR"

Everyone else talks because it's a human condition.

Little_Miss_1565
08-23-2006, 08:41 PM
You know, you probably wouldn't get this one because you're American, but like the only people who think they are allowed to talk because of a stupid signature in a stupid charter are American.

"I CAN SAY ANYTHING I WANT ON THE INTERNET, THATS WHAT FREEDOM OF SPEECH IS FOR"

I thought you were leaving. Did you know Canada signed the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, too?

sk8ter-hater
08-23-2006, 08:41 PM
Thank you baby!!!

PS--Next meetup, you need to be there. Bring the bacon, I'll bring the Tang.
I always thought you were vegetarian....damn presumptions.

nieh
08-23-2006, 08:43 PM
Yeah but the whole point in my scenario is if they refuse outright to cook meat for you. The scenario is you can't get meat at home because your parents don't cook it, and you yourself are obviously not apt enough to take care of your diet while growing up.

I'd use exclamation marks but I already used it up all in the posts before.

Wow... Do you people even read what I said?

If my parents completely 100% flat out refused to cook meat no matter how much I hated vegetarian food and refused to eat it and I was wasting away due to lack of nutrition then yes, I'd be upset in the same sense that I'd be upset if my parents refused to let me get driver's license because they think cars are too dangerous. If the parents are stubborn enough to let something like that happen to their kid over their morals and ideas then odds are the lack of meat is the least of your worries at home. That wasn't what you said though. What you said was about a vegetarian wife refusing to cook meat, and you saying you would never marry a woman that wouldn't cook meat for their kids because you feel it's unhealthy for the kids. You still never told me why it's unhealty, and you said nothing about a vegetarian couple, just the wife.

HornyPope
08-23-2006, 08:54 PM
I thought you were leaving. Did you know Canada signed the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, too?

Did you know Canada had a declaration about free speech before the international declaration?


If my parents completely 100% flat out refused to cook meat no matter how much I hated vegetarian food and refused to eat it and I was wasting away due to lack of nutrition then yes, I'd be upset in the same sense that I'd be upset if my parents refused to let me get driver's license because they think cars are too dangerous.

Thank you!


If the parents are stubborn enough to let something like that happen to their kid over their morals and ideas then odds are the lack of meat is the least of your worries at home.

Very true!


What you said was about a vegetarian wife refusing to cook meat, and you saying you would never marry a woman that wouldn't cook meat for their kids because you feel it's unhealthy for the kids.

Correct. (but to clarify a bit... read bellow)


You still never told me why it's unhealty,

I don't think it's unealthy per se in a sense that that you're not gonna die or left sick, but you're limitting your potential. For instance, when I trained, I would eat in a given day at least one huge meal of red meat, plus eggs, and peanut butter and tuna, and I took vitamin supliments and protein shakes. That was just karate though, if I was mass building, i'd probably double or triple the ammount of food.

Well you can't remplace that with vegetarian stuff. There is no way vegetarians can train their bodies en par with carnivores.

All About Eve
08-23-2006, 08:59 PM
Have you read recent fitness studies, Vlad? A lot of sports tend to go towards carbs, like pasta, with very limited to no red meat. Generally white meat and fish is all that's acceptable. Dairy is good, but a very small amount. And Peanut Butter is generally a no all around because of it's fat content.

HornyPope
08-23-2006, 09:01 PM
I haven't. I haven't read about a single athlete that doesn't regulary eat meat as part of his diet. Show?

And by peanut butter, I usualy take biological, not processed so it's less trans fat and all that nasty crap.

All About Eve
08-23-2006, 09:04 PM
I don't have a specific article (I did a while back; gone now), but I have listened to a couple different nutrionists (not local ones, like ones that do regiments for SEC colleges), and had almost every coach ever tell me that.

That kind of Peanut Butter is better, but all the oils and everything is still a big downside.

HornyPope
08-23-2006, 09:09 PM
Well where are you supposed to get your proteins to rebuild your muscles when you work on your mass?

nieh
08-23-2006, 09:12 PM
So you're upset because her kids can't be body builders? That seems a bit ridiculous. Also, yes you can replace that with vegetarian stuff. Hell, with the exception of the red meat and tuna, it's all vegetarian friendly. There's also stuff like whey protein for people that are really serious about bulking up.

Little_Miss_1565
08-23-2006, 09:12 PM
Just fucking Google it.

http://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=vegetarian+body+builders&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8

Again, I thought you said you were leaving, Vlad.

All About Eve
08-23-2006, 09:13 PM
Fruits generally have as much, if not more, proteins and vitamins as meat does.

HornyPope
08-23-2006, 09:25 PM
Fruits generally have as much, if not more, proteins and vitamins as meat does.

Yeah but how much fruits can you eat a day? I mean I suppose it's possible, but I'd still prefer to keep an all around diet including, but not limited to, red meat. To exclude one food group is such a shame.

nieh
08-23-2006, 09:28 PM
Do you still think it's wrong for someone to raise their kids without meat? Every point you've raised about it not being healthy has been proven wrong.

Little_Miss_1565
08-23-2006, 09:30 PM
But seriously, I guess no point to go much forward.

You're worse than Linda, Vlad.

HornyPope
08-23-2006, 09:42 PM
You're worse than Linda, Vlad.

You realize people are talking? I'm not throwing new accusations or taking this argument to the next step, i'm just continuing a conversation with some folks here. I don't even mention you.


Do you still think it's wrong for someone to raise their kids without meat? Every point you've raised about it not being healthy has been proven wrong.

Why are you time and time again putting words in my mouth? Can you not grasp my thoughts aren't about one person stepping out and saying "I think it's not healthy to be vegetarian!" ?

All About Eve
08-23-2006, 09:46 PM
You can eat a hell of a lot more fruits than meat in a day and get much more nutrients. That's just plain fact. Meat can't be all the way lean; it's impossible; there will always be a fat addition with it. Fruits are just straight nutrients, vitamins, water, etc.

Sunny
08-23-2006, 09:51 PM
er. everything else aside, to answer justin's dog question: since dogs can be perfectly healthy eating vegetarian food, i don't see anything wrong with it. i wouldn't go out of my way to get my dogs on a vegetarian diet, unless their condition required it (i believe my irish wolfhound back at home was recommended a mostly veg diet, and he's a happy, healthy dog). my dogs here... i just make sure their food is organic. i give them fruits and veggies, too.

nieh
08-23-2006, 09:59 PM
Why are you time and time again putting words in my mouth? Can you not grasp my thoughts aren't about one person stepping out and saying "I think it's not healthy to be vegetarian!" ?

I never put words in your mouth. You said raising kids without meat is "deplorable" and that it's healthier to raise them with meat when we proved that's not the case. We've mentioned alternatives, we've shown not just vegetarian but VEGAN bodybuilders if you click Sarah's link, a diet with meat is no more healthy than a diet without meat. Just because you wouldn't be able to do it, doesn't mean it's wrong or deplorable for someone to raise their kids without cooking them meat.

HornyPope
08-23-2006, 10:12 PM
Yeah, I think it's deplorable. And I think a lot of kids would be upset to be raised without meat. Others may think otherwise. You yourself admited you would be upset if you never had meat in your house.

Seriously, out of all people, you're the most insulting in this thread because you make me sound like i'm a simpleton debating the pro and cons of vegeterianism for a class assignment.

Little_Miss_1565
08-23-2006, 10:15 PM
Seriously, out of all people, you're the most insulting in this thread because you make me sound like i'm a simpleton debating the pro and cons of vegeterianism for a class assignment.

Really, Josh. Vlad doesn't need you to do what he's been perfectly adept at doing all by himself. Christ help us all if an argument turns into actual debate and not a "but I said so" pissing contest.

coke_a_holic
08-23-2006, 10:17 PM
I vote for the conversation to end and the thread to just be dropped because it's gotten lame.

nieh
08-23-2006, 10:20 PM
Seriously, out of all people, you're the most insulting in this thread because you make me sound like i'm a simpleton debating the pro and cons of vegeterianism for a class assignment.

I never thought you were debating.

HornyPope
08-23-2006, 10:25 PM
I never thought you were debating.

I'm not. You're the one who makes me sound as if I hold some gay mainstream position on a talk show with reactionary rhetoric like "raising your children on veggies isn't healthy" and you're the righteous and rational caller telling me that people CAN be brought up on a vegeterian doubt--something I never doubted in the first place.

nieh
08-23-2006, 10:27 PM
I'm sorry, I think I agree with Mike here. This is just going around in circles now and isn't going to get any better.

Sin Studly
08-24-2006, 12:46 AM
I vote for the conversation to end and the thread to just be dropped because it's gotten lame.

Fuck no, this is great.

Llamas
08-24-2006, 11:09 AM
Alright, hornypope's point is that a child shouldn't be deprived meat because, if he/she is, he/she might later be very upset that he/she didn't ever get meat. Honestly, if a kid is raised vegetarian, and after years of being vegetarian, has some meat, the child won't be able to properly digest it and will get physically sick (stomach pains, throwing up). The body will not create enzymes that break down meat, so when the meat enters, there's nothing there to break it down, and the body thinks the meat is an intruder. Therefore, when the kid did end up having meat, they probably wouldn't like it and wouldn't want to eat more.

hornypope, I don't quite understand how it's "deplorable" to not feed your kids meat as long as you're making sure they're getting their supplements other ways. You agree that you can get most of the same nutrients from fruits, and then went on to say that "you can only eat so many fruits" and "it's sad to deny yourself an entire food group". I get most of my nutrients from things other than meat, but I continue to eat meat because I happen to like a little bit of it. It just seems like you're basically saying that you wouldn't marry a woman who doesn't want to serve meat just because you like meat. I don't see how it's any worse to not serve meat than it is not to serve any other type of food. Just because someone likes it and you might have an upset kid, big deal. Kids get upset easily, I'm pretty sure that no kid's going to have a traumatic life if they don't eat meat (again, unless the parents aren't making sure to supplement their diet with other things. If all she fed them was beans and milk, that'd be an issue.)