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View Full Version : I have an awful confession to make



Mota Boy
09-26-2006, 10:21 PM
An open letter to various MTV specials, student crusades and Facebook groups.

Look, I know it's hip. I know it's chic. I know it's one of the most populous groups on facebook. I know that, as a liberal college student, I'm supposed to make this a top priority, but I can't take it any more: I don't care about Darfur. Yes yes, I know that people are being raped, that babies are starving. I know that children are being murdered because of their religion. Or maybe their ethnicity, I really couldn't give two shits either way. Seriously, shut the fuck up.

Yeah, it's totally tragic. Yeah, we promised "never again" or something after the Holocaust, or maybe after Rwanda (which I didn't care about either) but I can honestly say that I don't care. I don't care I don't care I don't care. I don't care. Stop talking about it. You know what annoys me? I don't think you really care either. I think it's just the hip genocide of the moment. I think it's just something to get you laid or make you feel morally superior. You can spend all the time you want thinking or talking about the poor Sudanese kids without ever having to do anything. Because seriously, who really gives a shit?

I don't know them. OK, that sounds harsh. I should care about all human beings equally, right? Fuck you. You bawl your eyes out when your father dies. You go into a deep depression if your significant other bites the dust. You feel kinda bad if you pass a fatal accident on the road. You blink when I tell you that between forty and sixty thousand people died last year as a result of hospital accidents, roughly a third of which are estimated to have been caused by bacterial contamination. Wait, that wasn't batting an eye, that was fucking falling asleep. Point? You secretly don't care either about people you don't know. Or, at the least, you care progressively less the further removed you are from people. How can you care about Darfur more than, I dunno, the millions of other starving kids in Africa and Asia? The ones that could be saved by only a dollar a day? As opposed to the ones that can't be saved by any amount of your fuckin' money because how the hell is your dollar going to stop rampaging militias you self-righteous fuck?

I just don't care. You care about the starving, raped poor, I get it. You're probably a liberal, right? You're probably a Democrat. Not necessarily, but probably. You probaby opposed the war in Iraq. Your probably opposed it for the same reasons that going into Darfur would be an ass-awful idea. We're stepping into the middle of a goddamn civil war in a sovereign nation. Seriously, why do you want military intervention in Sudan and yet say it was inappropriate against Saddam's regime? Why? Because... because... I can't even think up a reason, you stupid mindless hippies. Yeah, it sucks ass that babies are starving, but sending in the army ain't gonna make it right and ain't gonna ease things up. Did anyone read Black Hawk Down? Did anyone study the history of Somalia? Has anyone got any common sense left in this fucking country?

Look, I'm sorry. I probably offended a few people. I probably came across as an asshole. Hell, maybe even a racists asshole. Maybe it doesn't even seem human to vocally announce that you don't give a rat's ass about starving babies and murdered children and violated women you can't affect half a world away. If so, I'm sorry. I'm sorry I don't care, but I can't take it any more. I don't fucking care. I care about the deterioration of the US Constitution, I care about poverty in my hometown, I care about things I can affect and work to improve. I don't fucking care that people are starving when I know that foreign intervention in order to quell a domestic civil war has never, ever worked in the history of the modern world. So please, for the love of God, let me not care in peace. Just shut the hell up abour Darfur.

Tizzalicious
09-26-2006, 10:45 PM
They want America to invade and make law and order? That really is ironically hypocritical.

I had to do groupwork with this rather annoying self-righteous young woman. I was able to convince her (however extremely grudgingly) that sponsoring a child in Africa is a meaningless and inconsequential action, her money could be used in far more efficient ways, she just doesn't actually want to do these far more efficient things.

- Wheelchairman

Little_Miss_1565
09-27-2006, 07:24 AM
Um, no, Mota. Sure, some people are saying "OMFG America invade Darfur!" But, the real heart of the issue is that if the Bush administration is going to say 'Let's invade Iraq because Saddam is a ruthless dictator" and yet refuse for YEARS to say that what's going on in Darfur is a genocide is hypocritical at best. Clearly the US can hardly hold onto its military presence in the MIddle East at the moment. No one expects America to fix this single-handedly. At most everyone is trying to get a UN peacekeeping force in there, because if memory serves this is the first instance that the UN has classified as genocide and then all but refused to act.

"Act" meaning, you know, to prevent the tribes of Janjaweed who go around raping every woman of the wrong ethnicity that they see. I'm sure you don't know this, you know, since you're a guy and all, but rape is actually worse than death. At least with torture and murder it's over in a few minutes, at worse a few days. If you don't give a fuck, whatever, clearly you're not alone in that because this has been going on for years with no sign of slowing. But don't act like it's cool not to care about it, and how dare you have the gall to make this a "liberal" or "democrat" issue. If you conservatives want to pat yourselves on the back for ridding Iraq of Saddam, don't pretend that it's not doublespeak to say Darfur isn't important.

Sin Studly
09-27-2006, 07:31 AM
I'm sure you don't know this, you know, since you're a guy and all, but rape is actually worse than death. At least with torture and murder it's over in a few minutes, at worse a few days

I've never believed this before, I've never said this so bluntly before, I've never ever imagined I'd actually have to.

But you're a fucking idiot.

Little_Miss_1565
09-27-2006, 07:33 AM
I've never believed this before, I've never said this so bluntly before, I've never ever imagined I'd actually have to.

But you're a fucking idiot.

Hm, I never imagined I'd have to say this either, but eat shit and die you fucking prick.

Sin Studly
09-27-2006, 07:36 AM
Okay, seriously. Two questions.

Question 1. Have you ever been raped?

Question 2.
IF 'YES'
- If it's so much worse than death, why haven't you killed yourself already?

IF 'NO'
- Then why are you capable of understanding it, but men ; who are just as capable of being raped ; are not?

Little_Miss_1565
09-27-2006, 07:40 AM
Yes, I have. And the only thing keeping me from killing myself most days is what it would do to my mother. There's nothing intrinsically keeping men from understanding this--the text of my original post was intended to be facetious--but from your initial response I'm going to guess that most men just don't want to understand.

Whiplash
09-27-2006, 07:48 AM
WOW, Sorry to hear that.:(

Sin Studly
09-27-2006, 08:05 AM
And what would being murdered do to your mother?

Believe me, I understand. I understand that rape is a shitty thing for anybody to go through. Worse than a shitty thing, a horrible thing. But then, I also understand that, as somebody who has never been raped or tortured, I can compare them with at least some degree of objectivity.

Now, I'll admit that some people get raped, and they withdraw, a large part of them dies inside, and their lives are basically ruined forever. But you're not even close to that, so don't bother pretending you are to shame me. You have sex, with men. You talk about having sex, with men. You talk about wanting children some day. You have plans for your future. You're not broken, you're not going to kill yourself anytime soon, and you know it.

Look at all the women who've been raped, and soldier on. They name their rapists in trials, they abort their rapebabies, they move on. Look at all the men who've been raped and soldier on. They do what it takes to survive, and usually they don't have counsellors or criminal justice or the privelege of blaming the opposite gender to help them, they have nothing more than a shank fashioned from newspaper and dried faeces. And although these victims will never truly forget what happened, they live with it. That's what happens in any traumatic experience. If a loved one dies, if you get tortured, if you get raped, if you get mugged on the street. Naturally some are more terrible than others, but rape isn't as high up on the list as, say, torture.

You think you feel violated being raped? Of course you do, and nobody is trying to minimise that. But there are worse things out there, and I refuse to believe you're so naive that you think there isn't. Torture lasts days, at the worst? Well, you're right, if you meant 'thousands of days'. Hell, even something as little as a broken nose lasts a lifetime.

Do you have any idea what North African torture entails? It's basically keeping people locked in a cell with no amenities, packed on top of each other, swimming in each others shit and piss and swarming with maggots and bacteria, then whenever the jailers get bored, they amputate something and seal it up with boiling tar. Anything capable of being amputated by machete. Hands, feet, ears, lips, noses. Then they throw them back into a hole full of the starving insane remnants of humanity to swim in dysentric shit some more. And it lasts decades. Could you sit through that for ten years and still give a fuck what your mother would think if you killed yourself? Could you even retain anything close to sanity? Because I know, without any doubt in the world, that I couldn't, and neither could any of the rape victims I know who are still living life.

I don't want to sound cold or callous, because I'm sure your pain is very real and it sucks and blah blah blah, but get some fucking perspective.

Little_Miss_1565
09-27-2006, 08:10 AM
I'll allow you're right about North African torture. But as far as everything you said about me is concerned, don't even pretend that you know me at all. You know what I post to this message board.

Sin Studly
09-27-2006, 08:18 AM
But as far as everything you said about me is concerned, don't even pretend that you know me at all. You know what I post to this message board.

Oh, I'm not pretending I know anything about you other than what you post to the board. The fact that you're posting on a message board at all instead of curled up in a corner screaming to yourself supports my opinion perfectly well.

Little_Miss_1565
09-27-2006, 08:26 AM
Ah, okay, so because I'm not locked away in an asylum somewhere completely out of my mind and screaming incoherently in between doses of Haldol means I'm perfectly fine. Don't take this the wrong way, but fuck you.

I've already said too much here and I really don't care to discuss this any further.

Sin Studly
09-27-2006, 08:30 AM
I didn't say you're perfectly fine. Believe me, I sympathise and all. You've obviously been through an utterly shitty experience, you're never going to forget it, you're never going to get over it, and it sucks.

But forgive me if I maintain the position that there are things our fellow human beings could do to any of us that would make rape look like a holiday retreat.

Mota Boy
09-27-2006, 08:33 AM
Um, no, Mota. Sure, some people are saying "OMFG America invade Darfur!" But, the real heart of the issue is that if the Bush administration is going to say 'Let's invade Iraq because Saddam is a ruthless dictator" and yet refuse for YEARS to say that what's going on in Darfur is a genocide is hypocritical at best.
Oh, of course. What I'm saying is that, supposedly, Iraq was invaded under the same pretenses (or, if you believe likewise, still invaded with the inherent ability to acheive the same result) as... people's reasons for wanting to invade Darfur. Personally, I think asking for American involvement (which some people do) is hypocritical either way.


if memory serves this is the first instance that the UN has classified as genocide and then all but refused to act.
At what point has the UN ever acted on a genocide? It sent troops into East Timor, but only after the Indonesian government allowed it to, after the violence had already ended. NATO, a regional power, acted to stop violence in the Balkans. I don't believe the UN has ever actively intervened in an active genocide. It had a limited presence in Rwanda, but what tiny amount the troops did there was mostly outside of their mandate. Essentially, I think that sending in any troops would mean picking sides in a civil war. Even if there is one demonstrably "bad" side, I don't think the UN would be keeping the peace as much as fighting a war against a sovereign people that don't want a foreign presence. Look at the result in the Congo, in Somalia, in Rwanda, in the Ivory Coast (I think, one of those places). In all, UN troops were targeted by local groups, and in all cases the UN pulled out because peacekeepers don't fight wars.


But don't act like it's cool not to care about it, and how dare you have the gall to make this a "liberal" or "democrat" issue. If you conservatives want to pat yourselves on the back for ridding Iraq of Saddam, don't pretend that it's not doublespeak to say Darfur isn't important.

I don't think not caring about it is cool. I think it's incredibly uncool. I state multiple times that it's awesomely hip. Hell, MTVU is totally gay for Darfur. This is just a facetious outburst where I proclaim how much of an asshole I am because I don't care about the cause of the moment. The liberal use of the word "liberal" was just me running with my chance to be a conservative douche. You know I'm a total dirty hippie at heart.

It's just that I feel my right to not care is under assualt, and I'm terrified that one day I'm going to go down to volunteer for the local Democratic senate candidate and some hot female staffer is going to start talking about the poor orphans of Darfur and my cover's going to be blown when I expose myself as an insensitive prick because, when it comes to people dying on the other side of the world in situations where I feel that intervention will be ineffective or worse, I just don't care.

HornyPope
09-27-2006, 09:29 AM
I would wholly support an international volunteer brigade in the manner of Spanish and Abyssinian wars. Let them who care serve their conscience.

Sin Studly
09-27-2006, 09:35 AM
And hopefully end up in the aforementioned amputee shit-tanks. Great.

HornyPope
09-27-2006, 09:44 AM
It's a risk. I would take it upon myself if the fighting occured of anywhere significance to me.

0r4ng3
09-27-2006, 10:55 AM
I agree that the genocide should stop and et cetera, but I think it's pretty bullshit for someone to only believe that because MTV told them so.

I can understand dressing a certain way because it's popular, listening to a certain band or type of music because everyone else does, and other stuff like that. But I don't think anyone should have a certain "opinion" because everyone else thinks so and it's cool.

If you're gonna follow something, at least make sure you know why you're following it. Having the moral high ground just because it's cool and hip is, in my opinion, worse than having the low ground.

ninthlayer
09-27-2006, 03:35 PM
Haldol
I read this as Hadlol.

And that's my contribution to this thread.

HeadAroundU
09-27-2006, 04:24 PM
I've already said too much here and I really don't care to discuss this any further.
arghh 1565, I'm sorry about it.

This is not the best place to talk about such a sad things that happened to you. There is a private messaging for this stuff. There is a lot of bad people on the internet. Not that Justin is bad (he is awesome) but you should find the right people to talk about it.

Don't ever do this again. :(

JohnnyNemesis
09-27-2006, 04:50 PM
- Then why are you capable of understanding it, but men ; who are just as capable of being raped ; are not?

Wait, what the how?

ninthlayer
09-27-2006, 04:56 PM
I thought it was bold as fuck for 1565 to drop that. She was asked directly about it and responded without flinching and without throwing it out as a "Pity me!" crutch.

But focusing simply on her experience and not what she actually said (as were doing now) is ludicrous and takes away from the discussion at hand, so don't be like that HAU.

JN - Think prison/bruisers.

JohnnyNemesis
09-27-2006, 05:00 PM
I agree, kudos to her for that, and apologies for what happened, though that doesn't help any, of course.

And yeah, now I know what you're talking about with the prisons, etc. There's a huge difference between her experience, what she mentioned in Darfur, and what happens in prison though, but now I see.

ninthlayer
09-27-2006, 05:14 PM
Like anything on this forum will stay on topic for more than a few posts at a time. You mod Other Bands, you should know this already.

Back to what Justin/Sarah were talking about:
While there are extremes that exist that would be more hellish than rape, I still view it as one of the most vile things a person can do to another person. I'm not chivalrous by any means, but the mere thought/mention of that shit sends me into a rage. It's hard to convey my thoughts on rape without sounding generic and played out, but to think about someone violating the girls that I care about is enough in and of itself to instill some dormant protective feeling I have. Rehabilatation isn't enough, not by a long shot. A rapist deserves to face retribution.

I just can't even get into this subject, it bums me the fuck out way too fucking fast and everything I write loses composure.

sKratch
09-27-2006, 10:50 PM
Rape is bad, torture is bad, genocide is bad, mmmkay?
There are countless flaws in comparing them, or for that matter, trying to establish an absolute worst. But I guess that's not even the topic of discussion any more, huh?
Uhh.. am I an asshole for not even knowing what's goin on in Darfur?

Sin Studly
09-28-2006, 02:41 AM
There's a huge difference between her experience, what she mentioned in Darfur, and what happens in prison though, but now I see.

A huge difference, sure. But is it a relevent difference?

ninthlayer
09-28-2006, 03:17 AM
Uhh.. am I an asshole for not even knowing what's goin on in Darfur?
Hi, I believe that you're in my sea going vessel.

Sin Studly
09-28-2006, 04:09 AM
I'm vaguely aware of what's happening there, but only because I have some friends who lived/fought there. Their war-stories are fun and all, but I still don't really give a shit about what's happening there.

Duskygrin
09-28-2006, 06:16 AM
This thread was the laugh of the millenium. I nearly locked my jaw.

edit: I think I did lock it...

JohnnyNemesis
09-28-2006, 09:48 AM
A huge difference, sure. But is it a relevent difference?

I think it is relevant, though the extent to which it is relevant can be argued.
Still, I personally don't think it makes much sense, or is right, to question Sarah's experience and compare trauma to trauma when it always plays out so differently for people.

Comparing rape indifferent contexts leads to too much stickiness, but wouldn't you say the reason behind the rape counts for something, and as a result, there is a relevant difference?

Sin Studly
09-28-2006, 10:02 AM
Still, I personally don't think it makes much sense, or is right, to question Sarah's experience and compare trauma to trauma when it always plays out so differently for people.

I didn't start the whole 'rape is worse than torture' thing, I just disagreed strongly. And while I'll agree that it's absolutely ridiculous to claim that anyone can pick out an 'absolute worst', since reactions to and degrees of all things vary vastly from case to case, any torturer who can't do anything worse to a person than rape needs to find a new career/hobby.


but wouldn't you say the reason behind the rape counts for something, and as a result, there is a relevant difference?

That works on an individual level, but are you saying that on the whole, the reasons for rape in prison are inherently different than outside prison?

Mark_Bryan_420
09-28-2006, 11:38 AM
Yes, I have. And the only thing keeping me from killing myself most days is what it would do to my mother. There's nothing intrinsically keeping men from understanding this--the text of my original post was intended to be facetious--but from your initial response I'm going to guess that most men just don't want to understand.
You have my condolonces concernin' what happened to you! As far as men not understandin', I understand it rarely happens to men,and yes I sometimes wonder what it would be like if the tables were turned. But there is the story of Lot who was made drunk by his daughters and raped by both of them to preserve seed. After Sodom and Gommorah were destroyed,both women were stupid enough to believe there were no men left,when all they had to do was go to uncle Abraham's household! One of the sons was named Ammon,so I believe the people of Jordan spring from him. Don't mean to get carried away here,just to point out that these things HAVE happened before.

JohnnyNemesis
09-28-2006, 11:45 AM
Cram it and choke on your lies and myths, churchy.

Mark_Bryan_420
09-28-2006, 11:48 AM
Shut the fuck up! This doesn't concern you! I can speak up if I want!

Duskygrin
09-28-2006, 11:50 AM
Men will be more likely to get raped by men.

HeadAroundU
09-28-2006, 11:57 AM
I thought it was bold as fuck for 1565 to drop that. She was asked directly about it and responded without flinching and without throwing it out as a "Pity me!" crutch.

But focusing simply on her experience and not what she actually said (as were doing now) is ludicrous and takes away from the discussion at hand, so don't be like that HAU.
She has the balls indeed but it wasn't necessary at all and I consider this whole conversation embarrassing. I'm disappointed in Justin arguing about what's worse with the too-long-didn't-read post but I still love him for his awesome expressing. Justin's right but it's creepy to talk about it. For the 1565, well she was arguing with the pwning machine who has the "No dad" thread and who is "always" right. I can't believe that she told him/us that so easily. It reminded me of Whiplash and you talking about pills and condoms. It was so easy to get info from him.

I'm like that and not going to change. Like I said, I find this whole discussion ludicrous and saying that "I was raped" in the worthless discussion in the retarded public forum is something I can never get.

Little_Miss_1565
09-28-2006, 11:58 AM
Shut the fuck up! This doesn't concern you! I can speak up if I want!

But it does concern me, since your comment was directed at me. So please allow *me* to tell you to shut the fuck up, churchy. You don't know what you're talking about.

Little_Miss_1565
09-28-2006, 12:00 PM
She has the balls indeed but it wasn't necessary at all and I consider this whole conversation embarrassing. I'm disappointed in Justin arguing about what's worse with the too-long-didn't-read post but I still love him for his awesome expressing. Justin's right but it's creepy to talk about it. For the 1565, well she was arguing with the pwning machine who has the "No dad" thread and who is "always" right. I can't believe that she told him/us that so easily. It reminded me of Whiplash and you talking about pills and condoms. It was so easy to get info from him.

I'm like that and not going to change. Like I said, I find this whole discussion ludicrous and saying that "I was raped" in the worthless discussion in the retarded public forum is something I can never get.

HAU, I was asked the question directly and I answered directly. I did not come right out and say it. I said my piece on Darfur, Justin asked me a question, I answered. If you could stop giving Justin a rimjob for two seconds, you might be able to read better. I'm not ashamed that I'm a survivor, and fuck you for saying that I should be.

Duskygrin
09-28-2006, 12:08 PM
There's rape & rape... one can't put all rapes in the same basket... there's rape & assault & battery, rape where the victim didn't know what was happening to them & didn't seem to care (usually minors), rape when the person wakes up to find out they were raped, ...

Mark_Bryan_420
09-28-2006, 12:11 PM
But it does concern me, since your comment was directed at me. So please allow *me* to tell you to shut the fuck up, churchy. You don't know what you're talking about.
I wasn't talkin to you,but JOHNNY BOY! As for YOU, I was offerin my condolonces!

Mark_Bryan_420
09-28-2006, 12:11 PM
Men will be more likely to get raped by men.

In jail,mostly!:rolleyes:

Mota Boy
09-28-2006, 12:31 PM
If anyone needs me, I'll be beating my head against a wall.

JohnnyNemesis
09-28-2006, 12:43 PM
Oh cheer up, you knew all along that there were only so many places this thread could go.

Sin Studly
09-29-2006, 03:37 AM
She has the balls indeed but it wasn't necessary at all and I consider this whole conversation embarrassing. I'm disappointed in Justin arguing about what's worse with the too-long-didn't-read post but I still love him for his awesome expressing. Justin's right but it's creepy to talk about it. For the 1565, well she was arguing with the pwning machine who has the "No dad" thread and who is "always" right. I can't believe that she told him/us that so easily. It reminded me of Whiplash and you talking about pills and condoms. It was so easy to get info from him.

I'm like that and not going to change. Like I said, I find this whole discussion ludicrous and saying that "I was raped" in the worthless discussion in the retarded public forum is something I can never get.


HAU, I was asked the question directly and I answered directly. I did not come right out and say it. I said my piece on Darfur, Justin asked me a question, I answered. If you could stop giving Justin a rimjob for two seconds, you might be able to read better. I'm not ashamed that I'm a survivor, and fuck you for saying that I should be.

1565. He's not saying you should be ashamed, he's saying you should keep a lid on it because I'm going to constantly bring it up in tasteless and inappropriate ways to try and hurt you.

L'ubo. I'm not going to. I asked a straightfoward question, she answered in a straightfoward way. End of story.