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View Full Version : Who do you think is the worst American president ever?



Jack the Tripper
10-21-2006, 06:24 PM
I felt like making a thread since I haven't for a while, so I'm going to. Sorry if you don't like it, but you're not going to like every thread anyways.

Sinister
10-21-2006, 06:57 PM
anarkyyy!!!!!!11111oneoneone.

Actually, George W Bush.

XYlophonetreeZ
10-21-2006, 07:38 PM
My votes went to Jackson, Buchanan, Hoover, Kennedy, Johnson, Nixon, and Bush II.

JohnnyNemesis
10-21-2006, 07:42 PM
Bush II: Revenge of Bush gets an early vote. And he still has two years to get worse!

Night
10-21-2006, 09:25 PM
George W. Bush, I think:)

0r4ng3
10-21-2006, 09:27 PM
I would say Dubya, but I know that's like voting for The Offspring in a favorite band poll here*. I need some time to think about this question.

Edit: *and I know the same people would vote for both, for the same reasons.

In a world without leeeeeeeaaaderrrrrrsssss...

Tigger Army
10-22-2006, 02:56 AM
I don't know them all and I don't know all the things they did, so I honestly can't pick a worst one.

wheelchairman
10-22-2006, 04:39 AM
I voted Reagan.

Tigger Army
10-22-2006, 05:54 AM
how could Kennedy have gotten more votes than Johnson though

Vera
10-22-2006, 06:20 AM
Ooooh ticky box! *ticks away maniacally*

Endymion
10-22-2006, 11:58 AM
FDR and LBJ.

78 Water
10-22-2006, 12:05 PM
John Adams because he passed the Alien and Sedition Acts.

JohnnyNemesis
10-22-2006, 12:10 PM
I voted Reagan.

I agree to the fullest.

Kathy
10-22-2006, 12:51 PM
It's obvious...G.W.B.!

nieh
10-22-2006, 01:21 PM
how could Kennedy have gotten more votes than Johnson though

Because he died. What kind of pussy president is that?

Tigger Army
10-22-2006, 01:48 PM
Because he died. What kind of pussy president is that?

I think a few others with less votes died aswell though :)

Nineteen Seventy Nine
10-22-2006, 03:11 PM
My votes went to Lincoln because he's overrated, McKinley because he was just a baby-kisser/hand-shaker, and Nixon and George W. for the obvious reasons.

wheelchairman
10-22-2006, 03:49 PM
My votes went to Lincoln because he's overrated, McKinley because he was just a baby-kisser/hand-shaker, and Nixon and George W. for the obvious reasons.
Lincoln was the worst because he was overrated? I don't follow the logic. Being overrated makes him the worst president ever? And if McKinley was just a populist who made no changes, then perhaps he was a mediocre president, but above those making negative changes. Nixon I could agree with you, but there were certainly some good things he did. And yeah I agree with you on the current pres. But I don't think current presidents should be in historical polls. The propaganda of the time might influence people's views. Then again the victors of the past might influence the books of history, so I guess it doesn't matter.

Endy, you like Hamilton? Not that he was a president, but I imagine those who don't like FDR and LBJ were those who would like Hamilton.

Venom Symbiote
10-22-2006, 07:47 PM
Bush Jr. and Reagan are not the worst U.S. Presidents. What, are you people retarded?

Reagan was essentially awesome. And Bush ain't the smartest cookie in the jar, but he's not the great Anti-Christ people make him out to be, either.

0r4ng3
10-22-2006, 07:49 PM
Bush 2.0 Beta may not be as bad as everyone makes him out to be, but that doesn't mean he's by any means a good president.

Jakebert
10-22-2006, 08:09 PM
Warren Harding or Herbert Hoover.

JohnnyNemesis
10-22-2006, 09:18 PM
Reagan was essentially awesome.

Untrue.


And Bush ain't the smartest cookie in the jar, but he's not the great Anti-Christ people make him out to be, either.

This is one of those cases where the masses ARE right. Just cause he's made out to be horrible doesn't mean he's not. He is the fuckin' antichrist.

XYlophonetreeZ
10-22-2006, 09:42 PM
James Buchanan was factually the worst president who ever lived. I get furious if I so much as think about him for too long, and the guy died over 100 years ago. Never before has another president shown so much plain apathy towards the country. He did essentially NOTHING to prevent secession, and any half-assed efforts he did make were miserably ineffective. It is a fact that the Civil War would not have happened if almost any other man were in office. Buchanan just sat around hoping for a compromise that was obviously never gonna happen. I hate James Buchanan.

Another tidbit: Buchanan once vetoed a bill that would have enhanced education systems and is on record as saying "There are already too many educated people in this country." Also, when Lincoln first took over as president, Buchanan told him "If you are as happy entering the presidency as I am in leaving it, then you are truly a happy man."

I would disagree that Lincoln is overrated, even if solely for the reason that he had the near-impossible task of cleaning up the mess that Buchanan left him.

coke_a_holic
10-22-2006, 10:30 PM
The answer is William Henry Harrison.


Though Reagan and Nixon sucked, too.

wheelchairman
10-22-2006, 11:00 PM
[QUOTE=Venom Symbiote;910867

Reagan was essentially awesome. [/QUOTE]
In what way? He worked very hard to make life difficult for those with little money. Even going as far as shutting down institutions for children from messed up backgrounds. He might've had a good sense of humor, but that's about as far as the "good" goes.

Mark_Bryan_420
10-23-2006, 09:37 AM
Why would our foundin' presidents be numbered? They were NOWHERE NEAR as bad as the ones from LBJ on!

Mark_Bryan_420
10-23-2006, 09:46 AM
Because he died. What kind of pussy president is that?
BECAUSE HE DIED?! That's ridiculous! He was the last decent democrat to hold the Oval Office! The Marilyn Manroe scandal was irrevelent,concernin' the good things he did! He won the Cuban Missile standoff,issued $500 million in U.S. Treasury notes to help bring down the national debt,he wanted to pull the only 1,000 troops out of Vietnam,'til Johnson came in and reversed it,he was HATED by the CIA which sabotaged the U2 Spyplane over Russia and was gonna DISBAND them with the stroke of a pen,and yes he was a pot smoker who was gonna legalize it in '64! Plenty of reasons why they assassinated him. :mad:

Mark_Bryan_420
10-23-2006, 09:51 AM
Bush 2.0 Beta may not be as bad as everyone makes him out to be, but that doesn't mean he's by any means a good president. Good point,though I might point out that Prescott Bush joined the SKULL&BONES in 1917,Bush Sr. in '48 and himself in '68,but even then,he was a better candidate than Kerry,who joined in '68.

Not Ozymandias
10-23-2006, 10:51 AM
The correct answers are Filmore, Buchanan, Grant, Wilson, Hoover, Carter and Bush II.

Not Ozymandias
10-23-2006, 10:53 AM
FDR
You're fired.


C'mon now, overrated is one thing, but worst? Can you honestly imagine Jimmy Carter or George Bush's idiot son dealing with an economic depression or waging a World War?

JohnnyNemesis
10-23-2006, 12:35 PM
irrevelent

Say this out loud for massive lolz.

Llamas
10-23-2006, 12:52 PM
I voted solely for ulysess grant. he didn't do ANYTHING for our country. he just got wasted every day and then got so fat that he got stuck in his own bathtub. how can you think GWB was worse than that?

Killer Dwarf
10-23-2006, 12:54 PM
In what way? He worked very hard to make life difficult for those with little money. Even going as far as shutting down institutions for children from messed up backgrounds. He might've had a good sense of humor, but that's about as far as the "good" goes.

Reagan ended the cold war. He is one the best IMHO.

Killer Dwarf
10-23-2006, 12:55 PM
I voted solely for ulysess grant. he didn't do ANYTHING for our country. he just got wasted every day and then got so fat that he got stuck in his own bathtub. how can you think GWB was worse than that?

I think it was Taft that got stuck in the bathtub.

0r4ng3
10-23-2006, 12:56 PM
No, I think it was Grant. Taft was known for being fat, but he never got stuck in any tub.

Killer Dwarf
10-23-2006, 12:59 PM
http://www.classroomhelp.com/lessons/Presidents/taft.html

The heaviest president at 332 pounds, Taft struggled all his adult life with a weight problem. He got stuck in the White House bathtub and had to have an oversized version brought in for his use.

Jakebert
10-23-2006, 01:00 PM
I'm pretty sure it was Taft.

wheelchairman
10-23-2006, 01:07 PM
Reagan ended the cold war. He is one the best IMHO.

He didn't end it. He just happened to be there.

Llamas
10-23-2006, 01:14 PM
damn. it was taft who was the fatty. grant was still a jumbo piece of shit, though.

JohnnyNemesis
10-23-2006, 01:17 PM
Yeah, Taft was a real fatass. I hooked up with a girl last year, and somehow we got on the subject of old presidents, and after I made a bajillion jokes about how fat he was, she tells me that she's a direct descendent of his, and she wasn't lying. She was all pretending she wasn't bothered and shit.


Reagan ended the cold war. He is one the best IMHO.

lol, you're from Kansas.

Killer Dwarf
10-23-2006, 01:21 PM
lol, you're from Kansas.

Nothing gets by you Sherlock.

Tigger Army
10-23-2006, 02:04 PM
Reagan ended the cold war. He is one the best IMHO.


He didn't end it. He just happened to be there.

indeed, if anything Reagan was only a puppet who acted to be something like a president. If you want to give someone credit for ending the cold war Gorbatsjov would've been a better option. Ofcourse the cold war was already ending much earlier, probably after the Cuba crisis already. Perhaps it took up till Reagan to definitely end everything but giving him credit for it is like giving ME credit for making the Euro our currency.

Killer Dwarf
10-23-2006, 02:12 PM
indeed, if anything Reagan was only a puppet who acted to be something like a president. If you want to give someone credit for ending the cold war Gorbatsjov would've been a better option.


There are many books written on it and quite a few Ph.d's admit they both had a lot to do with it. I remember the Democrats saying that we "don't want to make them mad, so be quiet Reagan". Just like today they don't want to make the terrorists mad. History repeats itself again...

Not Ozymandias
10-23-2006, 09:01 PM
The USSR was slowly dying for a long time, Reagan just happened to be around when it finally died. He did his part to help that, but then so did every president from Truman onward.

wheelchairman
10-24-2006, 02:15 AM
There are many books written on it and quite a few Ph.d's admit they both had a lot to do with it. I remember the Democrats saying that we "don't want to make them mad, so be quiet Reagan". Just like today they don't want to make the terrorists mad. History repeats itself again...

How old are you?

From what I've read, the only historians who believe Reagan had any direct influence in the fall of the Soviet Union, are Republican historians. This wasn't the first time in history that the US took an aggressive economic strategy against the USSR, nor was it the first time the Soviet Union faced a major economic crisis (it was born out of one.)

The cause of changes inside the Soviet Union, should probably be looked for inside the Soviet Union. Although most experts don't really know exactly what caused the fall, it was likely a number of things.

Who the American president was at the time, and what he did, was neither new nor particularly different.

Killer Dwarf
10-24-2006, 07:51 AM
From what I've read, the only historians who believe Reagan had any direct influence in the fall of the Soviet Union, are Republican historians.

Who the American president was at the time, and what he did, was neither new nor particularly different.

Well, you know what they say about opinions, everyone's got one.

Steerpike
10-24-2006, 08:42 AM
George Bush has got the most votes? Well there is a suprise.

JohnnyNemesis
10-24-2006, 09:53 AM
Well, you know what they say about opinions, everyone's got one.

Yeah, and you know what they say about idiots?

They say that you're one of them.

wheelchairman
10-24-2006, 10:32 AM
Well, you know what they say about opinions, everyone's got one.

It's not an opinion. I'm asking you to back up your belief that Reagan caused the fall of the USSR. Because I think that's a pretty stupid belief.

Killer Dwarf
10-24-2006, 10:36 AM
It's not an opinion. I'm asking you to back up your belief that Reagan caused the fall of the USSR. Because I think that's a pretty stupid belief.

LOL, I already said you are a waste of time...

wheelchairman
10-24-2006, 10:41 AM
Yeah everyone really agreed, and people sure think you are a winner now.

Killer Dwarf
10-24-2006, 10:42 AM
Yeah, and you know what they say about idiots?

They say that you're one of them.


Wow, how articulate you are. I don't have the time to get into a pissing contest with either of you, because it's a waste of time. Do a little reading outside your comfort zone, if you want to learn more.

wheelchairman
10-24-2006, 11:00 AM
Wow, how articulate you are. I don't have the time to get into a pissing contest with either of you, because it's a waste of time. Do a little reading outside your comfort zone, if you want to learn more.

Wait a minute, you're the one referring directly to Republican Historians, and yet we're the ones who are blindly following ideological guidelines? Are you a joke?

Killer Dwarf
10-24-2006, 11:02 AM
Wait a minute, you're the one referring directly to Republican Historians, and yet we're the ones who are blindly following ideological guidelines? Are you a joke?

LOL, boy you can't stand it can you. I told you already you are pointless to talk to. Do a google to find all the books on the subject.

wheelchairman
10-24-2006, 11:04 AM
LOL, boy you can't stand it can you. I told you already you are pointless to talk to. Do a google to find all the books on the subject.

Not particularly. If you had proven me wrong, then I would be a little angry. Right now I just feel obligated to make sure no one takes you seriously, so that your incorrect views don't get picked up.

0r4ng3
10-24-2006, 11:17 AM
Do a google to find all the books on the subject.
Anyone else feeling lots of deja vu here?

XYlophonetreeZ
10-24-2006, 11:27 AM
Dwarf, how much time are you wasting by telling him over and over that he's a waste of time?

Or would it waste more time to search for actual credible sources to support your point? Because then I agree with you. Cuz it doesn't exist.

You'd do better to say he's NOT a waste of time, moron. If your claims really had any credibility then it would be easy to present some support for your points. It would hardly take any time. But you've refused to provide any credible support whatsoever, which, if you're really so sure your correct, should logically be very easy to do and not at all time-consuming. Right?

What are you trying to accomplish by avoiding any kind of discussion? It's clearly not some kind of nonconfrontational peacekeeping bullshit you're trying to pull by refusing to argue politics with wcm- anyone can see you've got no qualms tough-talking and acting like a dick in general. So it's safe to assume that you really are just a closed-minded twat, and that deep down, you know you're wrong and that you'd lose miserably if you actually had the balls to attempt to support your argument.

Killer Dwarf
10-24-2006, 11:53 AM
Dwarf, how much time are you wasting by telling him over and over that he's a waste of time?

.

Point taken, I wouldn't mind debating you or anybody else with a valid idea, but I already tried talking to that dumbass. But everytime I did he would change my arguments to help make his arguement seem true. I haven't seen any proof from him either.

Killer Dwarf
10-24-2006, 11:58 AM
anyone can see you've got no qualms tough-talking and acting like a dick in general.

Please show me the posts where I was tough-talking and acting like a dick in general.

Killer Dwarf
10-24-2006, 12:05 PM
RONALD REAGAN was widely eulogized for having won the cold war, liberated Eastern Europe and pulled the plug on the Soviet Union. Margaret Thatcher, Joe Lieberman, John McCain, Charles Krauthammer and other notables offered variations of The Economist's cover headline: "The Man Who Beat Communism."


these are but a few...

http://www.slate.com/id/2102081/

http://www.nationalreview.com/flashback/dsouza200406061619.asp

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2004/6/11/123141.shtml

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ronald_Reagan

http://www.ccc.nps.navy.mil/si/2004/aug/knopfAUG04.asp

http://www.brookings.edu/views/articles/talbott/20040801.htm

Killer Dwarf
10-24-2006, 01:05 PM
Wait a minute, you're the one referring directly to Republican Historians, and yet we're the ones who are blindly following ideological guidelines? Are you a joke?

This is EXACTLY what I'm talking about (wchairman). I never said anything about Republican historians.... YOU did! And yet you just say I was referring directly to them. This is why it is impossible to debate you. You make up your own facts to fit your argument.

Original prankstA
10-24-2006, 02:03 PM
harrison, clinton, and the bush's

opivy21
10-24-2006, 03:59 PM
I voted Warren G. Harding.

This guy didn't like him either (talking about his public speaking) :

"He writes the worst English that I have ever encountered. It reminds me of a string of wet sponges; it reminds me of tattered washing on the line; it reminds me of stale bean soup, of college yells, of dogs barking idiotically through endless nights. It is so bad that a sort of grandeur creeps into it. It drags itself out of the dark abysm of pish, and crawls insanely up the topmost pinnacle of posh. It is rumble and bumble. It is flap and doodle. It is balder and dash."

wheelchairman
10-25-2006, 02:18 AM
Point taken, I wouldn't mind debating you or anybody else with a valid idea, but I already tried talking to that dumbass. But everytime I did he would change my arguments to help make his arguement seem true. I haven't seen any proof from him either.

That's because I'm not presenting a historical scenario. Why the fuck would I need proof?


RONALD REAGAN was widely eulogized for having won the cold war, liberated Eastern Europe and pulled the plug on the Soviet Union. Margaret Thatcher, Joe Lieberman, John McCain, Charles Krauthammer and other notables offered variations of The Economist's cover headline: "The Man Who Beat Communism."


these are but a few...

http://www.slate.com/id/2102081/

http://www.nationalreview.com/flashback/dsouza200406061619.asp

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2004/6/11/123141.shtml

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ronald_Reagan

http://www.ccc.nps.navy.mil/si/2004/aug/knopfAUG04.asp

http://www.brookings.edu/views/articles/talbott/20040801.htm

What are you, a child? Take a day in a history class and you'll learn articles are not valid sources. That knocks out everything but the ccc.nps.navy site(which I kept because it is your only qualified link), and the wikipedia entry (srsly?).
The Center for Contemporary Conflict, however concludes that Reagan was 1 of 4 factors in the fall of the Soviet Union. And none of those factors seem to involve the Soviet people. Which seems stupid.

The wiki entry only mentions Margaret Thatcher's quote on Reagan winning the cold war, and says nothing about him winning anything else (except the presidency and governancy.)



This is EXACTLY what I'm talking about (wchairman). I never said anything about Republican historians.... YOU did! And yet you just say I was referring directly to them. This is why it is impossible to debate you. You make up your own facts to fit your argument.


There are many books written on it and quite a few Ph.d's admit they both had a lot to do with it. I remember the Democrats saying that we "don't want to make them mad, so be quiet Reagan". Just like today they don't want to make the terrorists mad. History repeats itself again...

You clearly use way too much thought on party-line. And I'll stand firm. The only historians who say Reagan won the cold war, are republicans.

Please, call me a waste of time again, after I've so thoroughly de-bunked your opinion.

Tigger Army
10-25-2006, 03:35 AM
George Bush has got the most votes? Well there is a suprise.
That's because most of these people barely know the others existed or what they did (except maybe a few positive things). I don't know much about over half of these people so I chose not to vote at all. I am however interested in reading on what grounds people choose one president over another (which explains me being in this topic). Sadly most mention the obvious things (and thus Bush 2)


Not particularly. If you had proven me wrong, then I would be a little angry. Right now I just feel obligated to make sure no one takes you seriously, so that your incorrect views don't get picked up.

no need to make sure of that, Killer Dwarf does that himself by ignoring arguments against his arguments. Rather in the same fashion as Mark(something)420 except with a lot less cursing.


Point taken, I wouldn't mind debating you or anybody else with a valid idea, but I already tried talking to that dumbass. But everytime I did he would change my arguments to help make his arguement seem true. I haven't seen any proof from him either.

debating anyone with valid ideas? Then you choose to call a whole damn lot ideas invalid.

Which reminds me: why didn't you answer when your age was asked? you didn't reacted to that at all. Not with a fuck you, not with a 24 (or whatever your age is), not even with: that's entirely irrelevant, you just cut it out of the quotation (together with some other things in the original post) and replied to one or two things he said.

Killer Dwarf
10-25-2006, 07:13 AM
You guys just need to realize there are opinions other than your own. It looks like you both got bend out of shape because you heard something evidently you never heard before.

Killer Dwarf
10-25-2006, 07:18 AM
Not particularly. If you had proven me wrong, then I would be a little angry. Right now I just feel obligated to make sure no one takes you seriously, so that your incorrect views don't get picked up.

OMG, I pity the fool with a different view on Reagan than yours. Yes go out and protect the stupid people that can't make their own minds up. Because Mr. Man has all the answers !!!

OMG

RickyCrack
10-25-2006, 07:58 AM
You guys just need to realize there are opinions other than your own. It looks like you both got bend out of shape because you heard something evidently you never heard before.


OMG, I pity the fool with a different view on Reagan than yours. Yes go out and protect the stupid people that can't make their own minds up. Because Mr. Man has all the answers !!!

OMG

Ouch, owwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww, oucccccccchhhhhhhhhhhhhh.

The hypocrisy is hurting my head.

Killer Dwarf
10-25-2006, 08:00 AM
Which reminds me: why didn't you answer when your age was asked? you didn't reacted to that at all. Not with a fuck you, not with a 24 (or whatever your age is), not even with: that's entirely irrelevant, you just cut it out of the quotation (together with some other things in the original post) and replied to one or two things he said.

Who cares what my age is? More importantly, do you guys share the same brain? It's kind of funny that you both seem to think age is important. Why do you want to know the answers to his questions? Do you finish each others sentences when you're in the room at the same time?

Killer Dwarf
10-25-2006, 08:40 AM
That's because I'm not presenting a historical scenario. Why the fuck would I need proof?


Well neither was I. OMG you need to get a life. As I stated before your diatribe. It was my opinion. Then you got all crazy-eyed demanding proof for what I believe. come on. This is truly pathetic.

JohnnyNemesis
10-25-2006, 10:04 AM
I'm all for everyone having their own opinions and all, but the fact that you've repeated the word "opinion" a bajillion times with no worthy attempts to actually back up your opinion says something about how fucking stupid you are.

wheelchairman
10-25-2006, 10:23 AM
Well neither was I. OMG you need to get a life. As I stated before your diatribe. It was my opinion. Then you got all crazy-eyed demanding proof for what I believe. come on. This is truly pathetic.

See you claim to remember the Reagan era, so I gave you some slack, seeing as you might be older and deserve that. But then you do stupid things like confusing opinions with things that are clearly not opinions. "It is my opinion that Reagan won the cold war." No, that is not an opinion, that is a belief. It is a statement of history that can be verified by checking different sources (any, in fact.) If you had said "Reagan was fuckin' A." Then that would be an opinion. "The holocaust killed Jews" Not an opinion. "Jews are dicks." Opinion. "Hitler had a mustache and kicked Poland's ass." Not an opinion." "Hitler looked funny and was the greatest general of all time." Opinion.

Very fucking simple. Unless you are 13-16. Then I forgive you. However I fear you are not.

Tigger Army
10-25-2006, 10:26 AM
Who cares what my age is? More importantly, do you guys share the same brain? It's kind of funny that you both seem to think age is important. Why do you want to know the answers to his questions? Do you finish each others sentences when you're in the room at the same time?

Read my post again, then reread your own post (as quoted above) and show me where I said I wanted to know the answer to the question 'what is your age' I did want to know why you deleted it from your quotation and didn't answer it. Also I asked: why you did that same thing with other sentences (or complete points) from other people's post.

To answer your other questions regarding my brain and the one wheelchairman has: I can assure you mine and WCM are two different brains. Infact we've never met before or even spoken on the internet besides on this forum. So I think it's safe to say we don't share the same brain. (Though WCM could've send it to me back in the days he delivered mail I guess). As for finishing eachother sentences when in the same room... Well, we'll see if we'll ever get in the same room in the first place.

wheelchairman
10-25-2006, 10:27 AM
Micha however was a total douche for not visiting us in Amsterdam, wtf man?

Tigger Army
10-25-2006, 10:28 AM
Micha however was a total douche for not visiting us in Amsterdam, wtf man?

I would've if I had been in the country :( You guys choose the only week I was away!

Killer Dwarf
10-25-2006, 10:47 AM
Which reminds me: why didn't you answer when your age was asked? you didn't reacted to that at all. Not with a fuck you, not with a 24 (or whatever your age is), not even with: that's entirely irrelevant, you just cut it out of the quotation (together with some other things in the original post) and replied to one or two things he said.


Read my post again, then reread your own post (as quoted above) and show me where I said I wanted to know the answer to the question 'what is your age' I did want to know why you deleted it from your quotation and didn't answer it.

there it is. If you didn't care what my age was, you wouldn't care if I answered it or not. Are you done bitchin' yet? Or is there something else you want to cry about? That I didn't do A or B but I did C, yada yada yada.

Killer Dwarf
10-25-2006, 10:54 AM
But then you do stupid things like confusing opinions with things that are clearly not opinions. "It is my opinion that Reagan won the cold war." No, that is not an opinion, that is a belief. It is a statement of history that can be verified by checking different sources (any, in fact.) If you had said "Reagan was fuckin' A." Then that would be an opinion. "The holocaust killed Jews" Not an opinion. "Jews are dicks." Opinion. "Hitler had a mustache and kicked Poland's ass." Not an opinion." "Hitler looked funny and was the greatest general of all time." Opinion.


Belief and opinion are the same this is just semantics. Good God, now you have a problem with the word opinion?

Websters view of opinion.
Opinion:
2 a : belief stronger than impression and less strong than positive knowledge b : a generally held view

Tigger Army
10-25-2006, 10:56 AM
there it is. If you didn't care what my age was, you wouldn't care if I answered it or not. Are you done bitchin' yet? Or is there something else you want to cry about? That I didn't do A or B but I did C, yada yada yada.

sigh... you really don't get it... never mind then...

Killer Dwarf
10-25-2006, 11:03 AM
I'm all for everyone having their own opinions and all, but the fact that you've repeated the word "opinion" a bajillion times with no worthy attempts to actually back up your opinion says something about how fucking stupid you are.

Um, okay, and you're known as the brainiac in the crowd you run with?
Let me see if I understand your theory. Somebody used opinion, lets see here, I'm not sure what bajillion is but lets guess its about...... 12 times and that translates to (pardon my french here), "fucking stupid". Okay got it.

I see you just used opinion 3 times in your statement. By your calculations you are 25% of the way to "fucking stupid". From the posts I've read from you, that is a step up for you. I can see why you are the brainiac in your circles.

Jeff316
10-25-2006, 11:40 AM
It seems to me if your a Democrat it would be George w Bush and if your a Repubilcan it would be Bill Clinton. I'd have to say it would be Bill.Bill didn't do anything but fuck other chicks.While bush actually does something.Even if it's not to anybody's liking.But whoever is president is probably going to be hated anyway I mean isn't that what anarchy is anyway.

RickyCrack
10-25-2006, 11:54 AM
It seems to me if your a Democrat it would be George w Bush and if your a Repubilcan it would be Bill Clinton. I'd have to say it would be Bill.Bill didn't do anything but fuck other chicks.While bush actually does something.Even if it's not to anybody's liking.But whoever is president is probably going to be hated anyway I mean isn't that what anarchy is anyway.

Yea, other than creating the best economy America has known, ever, Bill Clinton didn't do shit. Also the fact that he was a major factor in trying to create peace for Israel and Palestine. If there was a race for any sort of peace between those 2 Bill Clinton is the closest in anyway of had been being able to win said race.

0r4ng3
10-25-2006, 11:57 AM
That whole scandal was blown way the fuck out of proportion. Even if he could have done more, it was because of being distracted by unnecessary bullshit related to said scandal. Sorry I can't be more specific, but I think the general idea is there.

Killer Dwarf
10-25-2006, 12:59 PM
Bill didn't do anything but fuck other chicks.While bush actually does something.


As much as I don't like the Clintons... Bill did a good job with welfare reform. And if anybody asks me for proof on my opinion or to backup my belief I'm simply going to deny I said anything...

JohnnyNemesis
10-25-2006, 01:21 PM
Let me see if I understand your theory. Somebody used opinion, lets see here, I'm not sure what bajillion is but lets guess its about...... 12 times and that translates to (pardon my french here), "fucking stupid". Okay got it.

No, you DIDN'T get it, you fucking tool. It's not using the word "opinion" that makes you fucking stupid, it's using it while constantly running away from engaging in any type of valid intellectual discussion or argument that makes you fucking stupid.

Eat dick.

Killer Dwarf
10-25-2006, 04:58 PM
No, you DIDN'T get it, you fucking tool. It's not using the word "opinion" that makes you fucking stupid, it's using it while constantly running away from engaging in any type of valid intellectual discussion or argument that makes you fucking stupid.

I might add that’s just your opinion, I think I responded adequately. But again, that is just my opinion. I'm sure some people would disagree, but again that is just their opinion.

JohnnyNemesis
10-25-2006, 07:44 PM
Even I have to admit it; that was a good comeback.

Sin Studly
10-25-2006, 11:25 PM
Lincoln, that motherfucker.

Three hunned thousand Yankees,
Lay stiff in Southern dust,
We got three hunned thousand,
Afore they conquered us,
They died of Southern fever,
And Southern steel and shot,
I wish it was three million,
Instead of what we got,

XYlophonetreeZ
10-26-2006, 12:10 AM
Point taken, I wouldn't mind debating you or anybody else with a valid idea, but I already tried talking to that dumbass. But everytime I did he would change my arguments to help make his arguement seem true. I haven't seen any proof from him either.
The funny thing here is that in my post I called you both a moron and a twat. JohnnyNemesis has called you an idiot and a "fucking tool." The fact here is that wheelchairman has been the most civil person towards you here. And all he's asked you to do is present credible data. And you lash out at him? Go figure.

And for the record, you have been acting like a dick.

LOL, boy you can't stand it can you. I told you already you are pointless to talk to. Do a google to find all the books on the subject.And that, by the way, was in response to a very good question that wheelchairman asked.

Killer Dwarf
10-26-2006, 07:07 AM
The funny thing here is that in my post I called you both a moron and a twat. JohnnyNemesis has called you an idiot and a "fucking tool." The fact here is that wheelchairman has been the most civil person towards you here. And all he's asked you to do is present credible data. And you lash out at him? Go figure.

And for the record, you have been acting like a dick.
And that, by the way, was in response to a very good question that wheelchairman asked.

OMG, if you don't want to believe Reagan didn't end the cold war you can believe that, if you want to believe I live on the moon you can believe that too. I don't care what you believe. Again, like I've said at least 3 times already, that was my opinion. From my view, it is a widely held belief that Reagan ended the cold war. Now you have to understand there are other people that don't believe that. And I could give a rat's ass one way or the other. All I know I stated my opinion and I could care less what yours is.

I can see you are very worried that I answer the question from the man...
Well send him a sympathy letter or go to his house and bring him flowers. If you are so worried about him buy him a present, kiss him, hug him, I don't know, but I can see you have a special bond with him, that most men would be embarrassed to have. Don't let anybody tell you you're different. YOU are special and can sniff out a dick anywhere!

wheelchairman
10-26-2006, 10:39 AM
Generally, believing in a historical event is not supposed to be equivalent to believing in Santa Claus. But that's how you make it sound...

wheelchairman
10-26-2006, 10:54 AM
Belief and opinion are the same this is just semantics. Good God, now you have a problem with the word opinion?

Websters view of opinion.
Opinion:
2 a : belief stronger than impression and less strong than positive knowledge b : a generally held view

It doesn't matter what Webster's said, this is subject specific vocabulary. We're talking about history. So in that sense, when we say belief we are talking about what we believed happened. We believe in the actions of the past, and use sources to confirm our belief. Reagan winning the cold war is a belief, not an opinion.

It's not even about disagreeing anymore, I'm trying to get you to understand that there is a difference. Reagan is one of the best, is an opinion. Winning the cold war is a belief. You see the fundamental difference, yes?

Killer Dwarf
10-26-2006, 11:05 AM
It doesn't matter what Webster's said, this is subject specific vocabulary. We're talking about history. So in that sense, when we say belief we are talking about what we believed happened. We believe in the actions of the past, and use sources to confirm our belief. Reagan winning the cold war is a belief, not an opinion.

It's not even about disagreeing anymore, I'm trying to get you to understand that there is a difference. Reagan is one of the best, is an opinion. Winning the cold war is a belief. You see the fundamental difference, yes?

Actually I don't. You need to call Websters and tell them you have a new definition of opinion, so you can win the argument. (please re-read this)
Winning the cold war is a fact. So you think the cold war is still going on?

Maybe you need to read the definition on opinion again... and again.
opinions and beliefs are the same.

Websters again... Please read about the synonyms below and then cut and paste to forehead.

Entry Word: opinion
Function: noun
Text: 1 an idea that is believed to be true or valid without positive knowledge <my opinion is that such interference was unnecessary>
Synonyms belief, conviction, eye, feeling, judgment (or judgement), mind, notion, persuasion, sentiment, verdict, view

This is sooooo funny I'm showing this post to the guys at work...

Steerpike
10-26-2006, 11:11 AM
OMG, if you don't want to believe Reagan didn't end the cold war you can believe that, if you want to believe I live on the moon you can believe that too. I don't care what you believe. Again, like I've said at least 3 times already, that was my opinion. From my view, it is a widely held belief that Reagan ended the cold war. Now you have to understand there are other people that don't believe that. And I could give a rat's ass one way or the other. All I know I stated my opinion and I could care less what yours is.

I can see you are very worried that I answer the question from the man...
Well send him a sympathy letter or go to his house and bring him flowers. If you are so worried about him buy him a present, kiss him, hug him, I don't know, but I can see you have a special bond with him, that most men would be embarrassed to have. Don't let anybody tell you you're different. YOU are special and can sniff out a dick anywhere!

OMG- you could care less, homophobe?

EDIT: I also took the liberty of reading back to the start of the argument in order to appear less of a pedant. Your argument failed from the moment you posted.

XYlophonetreeZ
10-26-2006, 01:54 PM
OMG, if you don't want to believe Reagan didn't end the cold war you can believe that, if you want to believe I live on the moon you can believe that too. I don't care what you believe. Again, like I've said at least 3 times already, that was my opinion. From my view, it is a widely held belief that Reagan ended the cold war. Now you have to understand there are other people that don't believe that. And I could give a rat's ass one way or the other. All I know I stated my opinion and I could care less what yours is.

I can see you are very worried that I answer the question from the man...
Well send him a sympathy letter or go to his house and bring him flowers. If you are so worried about him buy him a present, kiss him, hug him, I don't know, but I can see you have a special bond with him, that most men would be embarrassed to have. Don't let anybody tell you you're different. YOU are special and can sniff out a dick anywhere!

I'm going to ask for help on this one. This goes out to anyone else on the board: did anybody think Killer Dwarf's post made any sense? I'm trying to understand it. Yes, I can clearly see that he's on some kind of high horse and is attempting sarcasm and failing. But beyond that I'm pretty much lost.

And I'll say it's true that many people today respect Reagan. He's universally respected by neoconservatives. But still, all you've done is get extremely defensive when anyone claims that Reagan was just in the right place at the right time. Like, strangely defensive. You're being so defensive about this that it's honestly just fuckin' WEIRD.

Nineteen Seventy Nine
10-26-2006, 01:57 PM
Lincoln was the worst because he was overrated? I don't follow the logic. Being overrated makes him the worst president ever? And if McKinley was just a populist who made no changes, then perhaps he was a mediocre president, but above those making negative changes. Nixon I could agree with you, but there were certainly some good things he did. And yeah I agree with you on the current pres. But I don't think current presidents should be in historical polls. The propaganda of the time might influence people's views. Then again the victors of the past might influence the books of history, so I guess it doesn't matter.

Yes, Lincoln didn't deserve the vote, because he certainly wasn't the worst and that was something I ignored. I voted for McKinley because he didn't do anything good except get shot. That gave Roosevelt the presidency and he started the Progressive Era, an important time in American history. I'm sure there was some other presidents who didn't do much either, but I actually knew McKinley's story and I found it disapointing.

wheelchairman
10-26-2006, 02:56 PM
Actually I don't. You need to call Websters and tell them you have a new definition of opinion, so you can win the argument. (please re-read this)
Winning the cold war is a fact. So you think the cold war is still going on?

Maybe you need to read the definition on opinion again... and again.
opinions and beliefs are the same.

Websters again... Please read about the synonyms below and then cut and paste to forehead.

Entry Word: opinion
Function: noun
Text: 1 an idea that is believed to be true or valid without positive knowledge <my opinion is that such interference was unnecessary>
Synonyms belief, conviction, eye, feeling, judgment (or judgement), mind, notion, persuasion, sentiment, verdict, view

This is sooooo funny I'm showing this post to the guys at work...

Okay. Children are taught this in grade school, but I guess you weren't paying attention. Dictionaries, even websters, use the most common definitions. There is a reason why. Because if a dictionary used every definition of a word, in every possible context for every possible field of study, there wouldn't be one big enough. There is a reason why translator's have not on webster's dictionary, but a dictionary for cooking, a dictionary for business, a dictionary for science, a dictionary for different kinds of sciences, a historical dictionary etc. etc. etc.

I mean seriously, how dull can you be? Do you truly think that Reagan winning the cold war is an opinion? Is believing in Santa Claus an opinion? Or believing in God an opinion?

And seeing as you don't care, I'm touched I'm in your signature. The depth you go to not care is amazing. You couldn't care less, could you?

Killer Dwarf
10-26-2006, 03:11 PM
And seeing as you don't care, I'm touched I'm in your signature. The depth you go to not care is amazing. You couldn't care less, could you?

Well, I meant, that I don't care what you believe, err opinion,, errr whatever.
I just thought it was funny that you have a higher knowledge of the English language than Websters. When you said opinion and belief are not the same, when in the dictionary is says they are the same. God you are good material.

wheelchairman
10-26-2006, 03:16 PM
Well, I meant, that I don't care what you believe, err opinion,, errr whatever.
I just thought it was funny that you have a higher knowledge of the English language than Websters. When you said opinion and belief are not the same, when in the dictionary is says they are the same. God you are good material.
Opinion is not a verb.

Websters is a dictionary, I am an English teacher. One cannot contain knowledge, and the other delivers. But what I am telling you now, is simple fucking common sense. I believe, if you own a copy of websters, they will tell you the same, in the first few pages, or the last. My copy does, it is however, a decade old now.

Now answer my question. You pussyfoot around the issues whenever you are cornered, and I've been ignoring it, but it's bad style on your part.

Is believing in God an opinion? Santa Claus?

coke_a_holic
10-26-2006, 07:16 PM
LOLOL Who was the smelliest president?

"The Odor" Roosevelt!


...That's my dad's all-time favorite joke ever.


EDIT: someone had to raise the mood a bit here, what with all the fighting, etc.

Killer Dwarf
10-26-2006, 07:26 PM
Websters again... Please read about the synonyms below and then cut and paste to forehead.

Entry Word: opinion
Function: noun
Text: 1 an idea that is believed to be true or valid without positive knowledge <my opinion is that such interference was unnecessary>
Synonyms belief, conviction, eye, feeling, judgment (or judgement), mind, notion, persuasion, sentiment, verdict, view


Opinion is not a verb.

This reminds me of a car wreak, you can't simply just look away, you watch, you can't help it.
Part of me wants him to just shut up, but other part says, this is too much fun.

That_Guy91
10-26-2006, 07:48 PM
This reminds me of a car wreak, you can't simply just look away, you watch, you can't help it.
Part of me wants him to just shut up, but other part says, this is too much fun.

This might not have been obvious enough for you, but did you ever think he might be talking about the post he quoted?

wheelchairman
10-26-2006, 10:59 PM
This reminds me of a car wreak, you can't simply just look away, you watch, you can't help it.
Part of me wants him to just shut up, but other part says, this is too much fun.

Now we've come to the part of the debate where you can no longer reason on a simple logic level, so you're trying to miscredit me by attacking my person in an ad-hominem logical fallacy.

And doing a bad job at it too, since I was clearly referring to your use of "opinion" in your post. I don't know why you care so much. But if you want people's respect here, or if you don't want their abject contempt, you should start debating on an adult level.

QuietNightKing
10-27-2006, 01:26 AM
Bush II. is the worst I've ever seen :)

Tigger Army
10-27-2006, 07:48 AM
LOLOL Who was the smelliest president?

"The Odor" Roosevelt!


...That's my dad's all-time favorite joke ever.


EDIT: someone had to raise the mood a bit here, what with all the fighting, etc.
for that you deserve a hug *hug*


Bush II. is the worst I've ever seen :)

perhaps. But how many presidents have you seen?

JohnnyNemesis
10-27-2006, 07:50 AM
Yeah, it's funny how Killer Dwarf is so incredibly reliant on the dictionary that he thinks it's hilarious for anyone to challenge it. Fucking moron.

H1T_That
10-27-2006, 08:06 AM
Why is Herbert Hoover there....didn't he invent the vaccuum cleaner?

the_GoDdEsS
10-27-2006, 08:44 AM
Well, I meant, that I don't care what you believe, err opinion,, errr whatever.
I just thought it was funny that you have a higher knowledge of the English language than Websters. When you said opinion and belief are not the same, when in the dictionary is says they are the same. God you are good material.

You are missing a crucial point here. Dictionaries are collections of words out of context.

JohnnyNemesis
10-27-2006, 11:42 AM
You are missing a crucial point here. Dictionaries are collections of words out of context.

Quoted and enlarged because it's an extremely important point that shouldn't be missed.

78 Water
10-27-2006, 12:34 PM
Lincoln was a good president, but I guess some people don't like him because he basically won because of luck. the people that were going to vote for Douglas, some went to Brecenridge and Bell, and in the North, went to Linlcoln, so he won. I guess because there were more opennents he actually won.

Killer Dwarf
10-28-2006, 07:32 AM
You are missing a crucial point here. Dictionaries are collections of words out of context.

This isn't about definitions... If the dictionary says opinions and beliefs are the same, then they must be the same (synonyms). When WCM says opinions and beliefs are NOT the same, it makes you wonder about his objectivity.

I guess this is the crux of my argument against WCM.


But then you do stupid things like confusing opinions with things that are clearly not opinions. "It is my opinion that Reagan won the cold war." No, that is not an opinion, that is a belief.
HUH?



Please read about the synonyms below and then cut and paste to forehead.

Entry Word: opinion
Function: noun
Text: 1 an idea that is believed to be true or valid without positive knowledge <my opinion is that such interference was unnecessary>
Synonyms belief, conviction, eye, feeling, judgment (or judgement), mind, notion, persuasion, sentiment, verdict, view


So what does he do when proved wrong?


It doesn't matter what Webster's said, this is subject specific vocabulary.

You can't debate people who refuse to take into account facts. I guess facts to WCM just get in the way when trying to make a point. If the guy doesn’t believe Webster’s knows what it’s talking about then how in the world is he ever going to believe me?



I mean seriously, how dull can you be? Do you truly think that Reagan winning the cold war is an opinion?
Yep

WCM, is it okay for me to believe that Reagan ended the cold war?
Is it okay for me to have a different than yours?

If not, these two words are for you. sieg heil

the_GoDdEsS
10-28-2006, 07:38 AM
This isn't about definitions... If the dictionary says opinions and beliefs are the same, then they must be the same (synonyms). When WCM says opinions and beliefs are NOT the same, it makes you wonder about his objectivity.


Jesus Christ, but certain synonyms are not interchangeable. Some of them might carry a very similar or almost the same meaning, but they are used differently according to context. WCM was completely right.

Killer Dwarf
10-28-2006, 07:44 AM
Jesus Christ, but certain synonyms are not interchangeable. Some of them might carry a very similar or almost the same meaning, but they are used differently according to context. WCM was completely right.

Oh god! now you to? Then why do we even have a dictionary?

wheelchairman
10-28-2006, 07:47 AM
For everyday spellings and definitions. Anyone who believes it's the omnipotent definition of the English language and usage however, is a moron.

Killer Dwarf
10-28-2006, 07:50 AM
For everyday spellings and definitions. Anyone who believes it's the omnipotent definition of the English language and usage however, is a moron.

opinion / Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[uh-pin-yuhn] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation

–noun 1. a belief or judgment that rests on grounds insufficient to produce complete certainty.

Point blank an opinion is a belief. Hell its the first definition!

Killer Dwarf
10-28-2006, 07:52 AM
opinion / Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[uh-pin-yuhn] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation

–noun 1. a belief or judgment that rests on grounds insufficient to produce complete certainty.

Point blank an opinion is a belief. Hell its the first definition!

I'm going to go on record here. Opinion and belief are the same, this is a FACT.

the_GoDdEsS
10-28-2006, 07:56 AM
A small piece of advice: stop it. We're both language teachers and anybody with at least a little common sense can see that you are making an idiot out of yourself. It is highly embarrassing. I feel sorry for you. Idiot.

XYlophonetreeZ
10-28-2006, 07:56 AM
I just realized this guy is 40. Hahahaha.

0r4ng3
10-28-2006, 07:57 AM
I'm going to go on record here. Opinion and belief are the same, this is a FACT.
An opinion is a certain kind of belief. Read past the first few words of the definition.

the_GoDdEsS
10-28-2006, 07:58 AM
I just realized this guy is 40. Hahahaha.

Oh.my.God. I would have said he's 14.

0r4ng3
10-28-2006, 07:59 AM
A part of me thought he was 36. Why, I'll never know...

wheelchairman
10-28-2006, 07:59 AM
I'm going to go on record here. Opinion and belief are the same, this is a FACT.

You never answered my previous question. Is God an opinion?

Killer Dwarf
10-28-2006, 08:00 AM
You never answered my previous question. Is God an opinion?

no it is not

Killer Dwarf
10-28-2006, 08:03 AM
Oh.my.God. I would have said he's 14.


Now I'm intrigued, why 14?

That_Guy91
10-28-2006, 08:03 AM
no it is not

But it is a belief?

Killer Dwarf
10-28-2006, 08:04 AM
But it is a belief?

No, it is an idea.

That_Guy91
10-28-2006, 08:05 AM
No, it is an idea.

So you've seen Dogma, then?

Killer Dwarf
10-28-2006, 08:06 AM
So you've seen Dogma, then?

No I have not.

That_Guy91
10-28-2006, 08:08 AM
No I have not.

Sorry, I thought that would be the only way anyone would be fucking stupid enough to say god's not a belief.

Killer Dwarf
10-28-2006, 08:11 AM
Sorry, I thought that would be the only way anyone would be fucking stupid enough to say god's not a belief.

So you believe in god?

wheelchairman
10-28-2006, 08:12 AM
No, it is an idea.

So God is not a belief? What about Santa Claus?

Do you realize what kind of stupid trap you've led yourself into with your dogmatic dictionary thumping?

That_Guy91
10-28-2006, 08:13 AM
So you believe in god?

No. I never said I believed in god, I just said that god is a belief.

Killer Dwarf
10-28-2006, 08:14 AM
No. I never said I believed in god, I just said that god is a belief.


EDIT: oops

Killer Dwarf
10-28-2006, 08:16 AM
So God is not a belief? What about Santa Claus?

Do you realize what kind of stupid trap you've led yourself into with your dogmatic dictionary thumping?

To hell with dictionaries?

wheelchairman
10-28-2006, 08:33 AM
To hell with dictionaries?

No. Just quit being so dogmatic. What is with you and taking it to extremes? Dictionaries are useful for definitions and spellings. It's rather elementary to realize that it doesn't include all possible definitions for all possible situations.

Killer Dwarf
10-28-2006, 08:38 AM
No. Just quit being so dogmatic. What is with you and taking it to extremes? Dictionaries are useful for definitions and spellings. It's rather elementary to realize that it doesn't include all possible definitions for all possible situations.

I know it doesn't include all possible definitions. But what about the ones that are already in there? Did you see the first definition for opinion? It said it was a belief. Doesn't the first one count?

That_Guy91
10-28-2006, 08:43 AM
I know it doesn't include all possible definitions. But what about the ones that are already in there? Did you see the first definition for opinion? It said it was a belief. Doesn't the first one count?

All possible definitions for all possible situations.

Killer Dwarf
10-28-2006, 08:48 AM
All possible definitions for all possible situations.

So you believe that opinion and belief are not the same in the situtation WCM suggested?

That_Guy91
10-28-2006, 08:49 AM
So you believe that opinion and belief are not the same in the situtation WCM suggested?

Yep .

Killer Dwarf
10-28-2006, 08:51 AM
Yep .

So you agree with me then that they are the same?

That_Guy91
10-28-2006, 08:52 AM
So you agree with me then that they are the same?

I meant yes, I agree with him.

HeadAroundU
10-28-2006, 08:53 AM
Killer Dwarf, you are a fucking idiot.

JohnnyNemesis
10-28-2006, 09:43 AM
Oh god! now you to? Then why do we even have a dictionary?

Holy SHIT. No way are you this fucking stupid, I'm convinced. You have to be acting.

wheelchairman
10-28-2006, 12:43 PM
I know it doesn't include all possible definitions. But what about the ones that are already in there? Did you see the first definition for opinion? It said it was a belief. Doesn't the first one count?
Of course it counts. But it is not the same definition in every situation. So while the first definition counts for the general use of the word. It certainly does not count in this situation. Don't you see that? That's why you get messed up with regards to when people ask is Santa Claus an opinion? Or is the Holocaust? Is the Holocaust an opinion?

I asked the age question because I didn't believe you were in your forties. Maybe 20's, but not forties. This kind of arrogant stupidity is just beyond belief. I still don't think you are 40.

Killer Dwarf
10-28-2006, 01:09 PM
I asked the age question because I didn't believe you were in your forties. Maybe 20's, but not forties. This kind of arrogant stupidity is just beyond belief. I still don't think you are 40.

So that is your opinion then. Because you believe its not true.
So that is your belief then. Because your opinion is different.

Hmmm sounds like they might have the same definition to me.

Killer Dwarf
10-28-2006, 01:10 PM
WCM, I'm done, lets just agree to disagree on opinion/believe.

wheelchairman
10-28-2006, 02:04 PM
So that is your opinion then. Because you believe its not true.
So that is your belief then. Because your opinion is different.

Hmmm sounds like they might have the same definition to me.

At times they are interchangeable, but that does not mean at all times. Christ... *slams head against wall*.

Sim pointed that out a page ago I think.

Duskygrin
10-28-2006, 02:36 PM
I don't want to sound opinionated, but I'll poke in for a few moments. Some acceptions differ: "my opinion of you has reached its nadir" couldn't be replaced with "my belief of you...". But if you think the earth is flat, it's an opinion as well as a belief. It's erroneous, but it's an opinion, it needn't be right.

No two words are perfect synonyms.

Ninty Man
10-28-2006, 07:28 PM
George Bush... and maybe Lincoln... WHAT?

Killer Dwarf
10-29-2006, 12:34 AM
But then you do stupid things like confusing opinions with things that are clearly not opinions. "It is my opinion that Reagan won the cold war." No, that is not an opinion, that is a belief.

I will try again. Tell me exactly what is wrong with my statement "it is my opinion that Reagan won the cold war". This is the statement that started all the brouhaha. So tell me exactly how that is a belief and not an opinion.

Because I can reword it to, "Reagan won the cold war, but that is just my opinion".

wheelchairman
10-29-2006, 02:18 AM
Because I can reword it to, "Reagan won the cold war, but that is just my opinion".

But it still doesn't work because that is not an opinion. Christ.

JohnnyNemesis
10-29-2006, 02:32 AM
Because I can reword it to, "Reagan won the cold war, but that is just my opinion".


That's more of an interpretation of events than an opinion.

Killer Dwarf
10-29-2006, 07:44 AM
But it still doesn't work because that is not an opinion. Christ.

Well its certainly not a fact.

You can't be serious. There is no way you are an English teacher. Look in the dictionary. Opinion says its a belief. Belief says it’s an opinion. They both are synonyms. You need to read the definition for synonyms.

How can a statement be a belief and not an opinion? How can a statement be an opinion and not a belief? They are the same thing!

It is my opinion that the American Civil War caused a divided still seen the the country today.
It is my opinion that WWI was the war to end all wars.

Duskygrin
10-29-2006, 07:51 AM
Thanks to Lewis Carroll, the argument can easily be settled... Didn't Humpty Dumpty say "when I use a word, it means exactly what I choose it to mean, neither more nor less"?

That_Guy91
10-29-2006, 08:39 AM
Well its certainly not a fact.

Not everything falls under fact or opinion. For example-

"God exists"

Fact? No.

Opinion? NO.

Duskygrin
10-29-2006, 08:52 AM
Well it does look like an opinion to me.

0r4ng3
10-29-2006, 10:38 AM
Believing in God is not an opinion. It is what it is; believing. However, saying something like "Our God is an awesome God", now that's an opinion.

Duskygrin
10-29-2006, 11:03 AM
Believing in God is a belief. A belief in God.

However, you can be of opinion that there is a god. Would I make so bold as to point out the difference between believing in God & believing there is a god? the former is exclusively a belief, the latter an opinion/belief.

wheelchairman
10-29-2006, 02:03 PM
Well its certainly not a fact.

You can't be serious. There is no way you are an English teacher. Look in the dictionary. Opinion says its a belief. Belief says it’s an opinion. They both are synonyms. You need to read the definition for synonyms.
We discussed this. They aren't perfect matches. You can switch them sometimes, but not all the time. Right now we are talking about fundamental history. An event. We could use your version of "opinion". But then you'd still have to verify it. You wanna know why? Because the English language has that distinction for opinion. This isn't opinion like "I like something and I don't need to prove it." This is opinion like "I believe something happened." Which then needs verification, and the cop-out "that's just my opinion" no longer works.

Do you understand that? I'm guessing not.


How can a statement be a belief and not an opinion? How can a statement be an opinion and not a belief? They are the same thing!
Not all the fucking time. The way you want to use opinion, does not make it the opinion as in preference, but opinion as belief. Still requiring proof in belief, and not your copout. Is it understood if I explain it in these terms?



It is my opinion that the American Civil War caused a divided still seen the the country today.
It is my opinion that WWI was the war to end all wars.
In this case, you cannot say "but that's just my opinion!". Do you know why? Because you are putting it into historical fact. Which needs a basis or explanation. It's not personal opinion, but social. A social fact perhaps in the Dirkheimian sense, but not really.

Please say you understand.

Killer Dwarf
10-29-2006, 04:31 PM
Please say you understand.
No, I can't.

Reagan ended the cold war.
Is this statement an opinion, belief; opinion and belief, or fact?

I don't understand why it matters if its a historical reference or not.

Since you are the English teacher. Give me an example of an opinion, but not a belief. And also one where it is a belief, but not an opinion.
Since these two words are synonyms I don't think you can.

JohnnyNemesis
10-29-2006, 04:43 PM
This is like angsty2006 or something.

wheelchairman
10-29-2006, 04:43 PM
No, I can't.

Reagan ended the cold war.
Is this statement an opinion, belief; opinion and belief, or fact?

I don't understand why it matters if its a historical reference or not.

Since you are the English teacher. Give me an example of an opinion, but not a belief. And also one where it is a belief, but not an opinion.
Since these two words are synonyms I don't think you can.
I already did. GOD. SANTA CLAUS. You cannot say God is an opinion. But he certainly is a belief. Same goes for the other guy. Christ.

History, is the study of sources. Everything in history is guesses made on sources. This is why it's important. Nothing in history is truly factual. Sure we have very educated guesses, especially when recording technology gets better through time. But that's why we've avoided using fact so far. This is why it's important. If you believe it, you are then claiming that it happened. And I disagreed with you, so I asked for sources. It isn't an opinion because an opinion of this matter presupposes that something happened. You can certainly believe it though, no matter what I say against it.

Reagan ended the cold war. Belief.
Reagan handled the cold war in the best possible way. Opinion.

You see the difference?
Keeping in mind the importance of history in this debate?

That_Guy91
10-29-2006, 04:44 PM
It's like NOAMR, but with words.

Llamas
10-29-2006, 04:51 PM
I think the best way to define the difference between a belief and an opinion is that an opinion is a type of belief that is held with a lot of confidence but without substantial proof of any sort. Opinion is a sub-group of belief. You can state an opinion with "I believe", but the two are not synonymous.

Killer Dwarf
10-29-2006, 05:04 PM
I think the best way to define the difference between a belief and an opinion is that an opinion is a type of belief that is held with a lot of confidence but without substantial proof of any sort. Opinion is a sub-group of belief. You can state an opinion with "I believe", but the two are not synonymous.

But they are synonyms. Look at it in the dictionary.

JohnnyNemesis
10-29-2006, 05:09 PM
But they are synonyms. Look at it in the dictionary.


Are you actually gonna read what people are saying, or just keep repeating the same bullshit?

Dictionaries are to be used critically, not trusted blindly. For fuck's sake, the thirteen year olds in this thread understand that, why can't you?

Killer Dwarf
10-29-2006, 05:11 PM
Reagan ended the cold war. Belief.
Reagan handled the cold war in the best possible way. Opinion.


"Reagan ended the cold war" can be an opinion too.
Because somebody may say Reagan didn't have anything to do with it.
One person believes Reagan did, that is his opinion while your opinion it was somebody else.

Again since the dictionary says they are both synonyms "the same or have similiar meanings". I will never agree with you.
Lets just leave it at that? You have an opinion of opinion which differs from my opinion of opinion.

Killer Dwarf
10-29-2006, 05:12 PM
Are you actually gonna read what people are saying, or just keep repeating the same bullshit?

Dictionaries are to be used critically, not trusted blindly. For fuck's sake, the thirteen year olds in this thread understand that, why can't you?

I'm pretty sure you don't even know what we are talking about. If you do please state why the original statement is wrong.

JohnnyNemesis
10-29-2006, 05:23 PM
I don't need to go back to the origin of the argument to point out that refusing to pay any attention to what anyone says and constantly repeating the fact that a certain dictionary classifies two words as synonyms when you're too careless to actually use the dictionary rather than uncritically absorb whatever it says makes no sense.

Llamas
10-29-2006, 05:24 PM
Even if you look in a dictionary, the definitions are different.

Opinion: the view somebody takes about an issue, especially when it is based solely on personal judgment

Belief: acceptance by the mind that something is true or real, often underpinned by an emotional or spiritual sense of certainty

Just because something is listed in a dictionary as a synonym doesn't mean they are the same thing. "Scream" "Squeal" and "Yell" are synonyms, but they are not the same things. You are misdefining "synonym" as meaning things are exactly the same.

Duskygrin
10-30-2006, 02:10 AM
Ppl who tend to criticize dictionaries are usually wrong. But Killer-Dwarf, you're wrong as well. At least 5 entries will be entered for each word, "belief" & "opinion", under the dictionary. Only on one entry, one particular acception, will belief be a synonym for opinion, & vice-versa. When belief is meant to signify "credence", or when opinion is used as a synonym for "esteem", then belief & opinion cease to be synonyms. They're not interchangeable for every acception, only one.

Capisce?

ninthlayer
10-30-2006, 03:33 AM
Critical reading is a life skill.

I'd also like to point out how hardcore That_Guy91 is, because word on the street is that he's an atheist. up teh fucking punx indeed.

Killer Dwarf
10-30-2006, 02:10 PM
Here is an excellent resource, which explains both words and it also explains synonyms. I never said they are interchangeable, but they both have similiar meanings.

http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/belief
http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/opinion

Tigger Army
10-31-2006, 01:38 PM
didn't you say they were the SAME? that's a lot different than similar

Llamas
10-31-2006, 02:22 PM
How can a statement be a belief and not an opinion? How can a statement be an opinion and not a belief? They are the same thing!


I never said they are interchangeable, but they both have similiar meanings.

hmm, curious. you lost this argument pretty badly.

JohnnyNemesis
10-31-2006, 03:37 PM
ilovellamas for the undisputable win.

Jack the Tripper
10-31-2006, 07:52 PM
Herbert Hoover got a lot of votes. What did he do?
(I'm just a kid, I don't know too much about politics.)

Thomas
10-31-2006, 07:59 PM
didn't you say they were the SAME? that's a lot different than similar

I found this post to be exceptionally ironic/funny.




And i couldn't tell you who the worst president is yet. I haven't studied them all. In my AP US History class, we've only gotten to Taylor. So far, though, Jackson seems to be quite the jackass.

Llamas
10-31-2006, 08:19 PM
I think it's pretty unfair to vote for george washington. He was the first ever and had nothing to go on. He had* nobody prior to learn from, and because of that I think he was a pretty good president.

As for GWB, I think it's dumb that he's "winning" this poll by so much. I'm not saying nobody should have voted for him, but I have this strong feeling that a lot of* people picked him because he's currently the president and a lot of people don't know/care much about previous presidents. Is he really THAT much worse than EVERY SINGLE other president??


* = edit. I sux @ spling.

JohnnyNemesis
10-31-2006, 08:25 PM
Is he really THAT much worse than EVERY SINGLE other president??

I know what you're saying because I agree with it, but the scariest fact is that even if you look at things objectively, even the clearheaded might respond with a shockingly resounding YES. He's so exceptionally bad that, historical context or no, you can point out that he's among the worst presidents/human beings of all time.

Thomas
10-31-2006, 08:28 PM
I think it's pretty unfair to vote for george washington. He was the first ever and had nothing to go on. He nobody prior to learn from, and because of that I think he was a pretty good president.

As for GWB, I think it's dumb that he's "winning" this poll by so much. I'm not saying nobody should have voted for him, but I have this strong feeling that a lot people picked him because he's currently the president, and a lot of people don't know/care much about previous presidents. Is he really THAT much worse than EVERY SINGLE other president??

Actually, I think George Washington should be among the best presidents of all time (Polk was slightly better, though). He stood up for his country and didn't put personal interest ahead of the common good for the United States (he was asked to run fooffice for a third term, but he refused [he would hae won, too]).

XYlophonetreeZ
10-31-2006, 09:15 PM
ISo far, though, Jackson seems to be quite the jackass.
He was indeed. But he's widely revered because (a) he did things that, no matter how brutal, shaped the way our country is formed today. To acknowledge anything wrong with the way we got here causes history textbook editors the whole nation over to be saaaaaaaad:( . So they're doing a favor for the kids today! We don't want the next generation of patriotic Americans to be saaaaaad!:( :confused: . And (b) Indians aren't seen as a real minority these days. Who gives a shit if he was responsible for the Indian Removal Act/Trail of Tears/Deaths of thousands of Indians?

Although to be fair, you could say Van Buren was equally responsible for enforcing the Indian Removal Act. Some shitty Rage-Against-the-Machine-ripoff band I discovered back in the glory days of piracy (Audiogalaxy FTW RIP) had some song called "$20 Bill," and the lyrics were something like "If Hitler were on the $20 Bill, how would teh Jewz feel???" And while that's a gross exaggeration, it's still kind of a good point. That said, I don't think it's fair to protest or do anything stupid until we hear actual Indians (word is they still exist!) complaining.


Actually, I think George Washington should be among the best presidents of all time (Polk was slightly better, though).
I'm torn when it comes to Polk. In a way I have tons of admiration for him because he was arguably our most efficient president ever. He accomplished literally everything he ever set out to accomplish. However, he's probably even more guilty of being a big fat meaniehead in the name of Westward Expansion than Jackson.

Oh yeah, and w00t for getting this thread back on topic.

Killer Dwarf
11-01-2006, 11:37 AM
didn't you say they were the SAME? that's a lot different than similar

Is it?
http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/synonyms

Can anyone show me a sentence that is a belief, but not an opinion?

coke_a_holic
11-01-2006, 12:05 PM
Killer Dwarf, why don't you go find something else to do? You've clearly lost, there's no point in even bothering to throw your last word in. Just leave.

Killer Dwarf
11-01-2006, 12:10 PM
Killer Dwarf, why don't you go find something else to do? You've clearly lost, there's no point in even bothering to throw your last word in. Just leave.

Huh? If this is soooo easy, give me a statement that is a belief and not an opinion.

the_GoDdEsS
11-01-2006, 12:17 PM
Is it?
http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/synonyms


You're an idiot. Seriously.

Killer Dwarf
11-01-2006, 12:23 PM
You're an idiot. Seriously.

I figured as much. Personal attacks. But (wait let me look again) nope, she sure can't come up with a statement that is a belief and not an opinion. I've had over five people tell me that this is 3rd grade stuff. But they can't find a sentence that proves their theory. If I'm the idiot, why can't you supply the statement?

JohnnyNemesis
11-01-2006, 12:44 PM
Is it?
http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/synonyms

Can anyone show me a sentence that is a belief, but not an opinion?

FOR THE LOVE )F( I;pvoh;fgsdljkzhbgjvsfhblo

JESUS FUCKING CHRIST!!!
]pogfvp'onbig;erfjp'ngrdfihbgrofvbgrsf

How many times are you gonna ask that, and how many times are people going to have to show you a sentence that is a belief and not an opinion before you stop asking?

Just fucking die. DIE. Seriously, choke on a Cheeto, chug bleach, hang yourself, just do someting. FUCKING DIE, YOU PIECE OF SHIT.

RickyCrack
11-01-2006, 12:47 PM
If I'm the idiot, why can't you supply the statement?

Because you're a faggot, and we don't like faggots. :mad: :mad: :mad:

XYlophonetreeZ
11-01-2006, 12:48 PM
Oh yeah, and w00t for getting this thread back on topic.

No more hope 4 better dayz.:( :( :( :(

Killer Dwarf
11-01-2006, 12:50 PM
Wouldn't it be easier to show me the sentence?

78 Water
11-01-2006, 01:48 PM
How could you guys say that Uleysess S. Grant was the worst president? He won the fucking Civil War.

wheelchairman
11-01-2006, 01:54 PM
GOD. SANTA. TOOTH FAIRY. HOLOCAUST.

None of these things are opinions.

Tigger Army
11-01-2006, 02:01 PM
How could you guys say that Uleysess S. Grant was the worst president? He won the fucking Civil War.

Being a good general doesn't mean you're a good president. Eisenhower showed that I think


Is it?
http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/synonyms

Can anyone show me a sentence that is a belief, but not an opinion?

my point (as you should have known concidering what I quoted) was that similar and exactly the same are two different things. You just made two contradicting points.

Killer Dwarf
11-01-2006, 02:17 PM
GOD. SANTA. TOOTH FAIRY. HOLOCAUST.

None of these things are opinions.

Neither are they beliefs, or for that matter complete sentences.

If you use those by themselves they are ideas, I guess.

Killer Dwarf
11-01-2006, 02:21 PM
GOD. SANTA. TOOTH FAIRY. HOLOCAUST.

None of these things are opinions.

God is real.
That statement can be a belief. To an atheist it is definitely an opinion.

wheelchairman
11-01-2006, 02:27 PM
No, they are all beliefs. It is not an opinion to an atheist, it is just simply not a belief that the atheist pursues.

They might be ideas, but that is a ridiculous point to bring up, when they are clearly beliefs. You know, things people believe in? And they aren't opinions. God is not an opinion, but he is a belief. Got it?

So they are not interchangeable terms. Quit being so fucking retarded.

JohnnyNemesis
11-01-2006, 02:30 PM
Neither are they beliefs, or for that matter complete sentences.

Yes, they are beliefs. And yes, they are complete sentences.

Killer Dwarf
11-01-2006, 02:48 PM
No, they are all beliefs. It is not an opinion to an atheist, it is just simply not a belief that the atheist pursues.

They might be ideas, but that is a ridiculous point to bring up, when they are clearly beliefs. You know, things people believe in? And they aren't opinions. God is not an opinion, but he is a belief. Got it?

So they are not interchangeable terms. Quit being so fucking retarded.

Why do you refuse to post an example? I've asked three times and yet you never post one? Show me a sentence.

Killer Dwarf
11-01-2006, 02:50 PM
GOD. SANTA. TOOTH FAIRY. HOLOCAUST.




Yes, they are beliefs. And yes, they are complete sentences.


It may contain a noun, but do you see a verb?

JohnnyNemesis
11-01-2006, 02:52 PM
That wasn't a serious question, was it? Cause if so, you're just REALLY stuck on your elementary school education.

Killer Dwarf
11-01-2006, 02:53 PM
God is real.

Atheist says, "that is your opinion not mine".


No, they are all beliefs. It is not an opinion to an atheist, it is just simply not a belief that the atheist pursues.

Duskygrin
11-01-2006, 02:54 PM
Oh my God. I don't believe I knew what laughing was till now.

P.S.: notice that "oh my God" written just above? On no account are you to suppose that phrase may make up a sentence. Coz you might be right.

the_GoDdEsS
11-01-2006, 02:55 PM
It may contain a noun, but do you see a verb?

That is called a minor sentence. Stop grasping at straws. You're thick as shit.

JohnnyNemesis
11-01-2006, 02:55 PM
God is real.

You're a fucking idiot.

Duskygrin
11-01-2006, 02:57 PM
Wait, wait! Do no discourage him! More non-verbal sentences (some of them are, can you spot them?):

Killer-Dwarf. Your gob. Shut it. Thanks.

wheelchairman
11-01-2006, 03:07 PM
Why do you refuse to post an example? I've asked three times and yet you never post one? Show me a sentence.

Why does it have to be sentences? Why do you refuse to acknowledge that God is a belief, and NOT an opinion? That your point is null-void. And that you are wrong.

JohnnyNemesis
11-01-2006, 03:09 PM
That is called a minor sentence.

The girl from Slovakia knows more about English than you do, Killer Dwarf.

wheelchairman
11-01-2006, 03:14 PM
God is real.

Atheist says, "that is your opinion not mine".
We're not talking about his existance. We're talking about God. The noun. He is still a belief.

However should we take your point. "That is your opinion, not mine." That is still a different form of opinion than the one you are talking about and the one you were holding.

When it comes to historical action, you cannot claim an action is an opinion. That's retarded. You do see that right? I mean you can't be so fucking retarded as to not have comprehended that? So while you can add "it's my opinion that Reagan won the cold war". It is still not the same kind of opinion as Red is better than green. You understand this yes? You aren't completely fucking retarded, are you?

Killer Dwarf
11-01-2006, 03:26 PM
Yes, they are beliefs. And yes, they are complete sentences.


That is called a minor sentence. Stop grasping at straws. You're thick as shit.

Can you read? I said complete sentences. A one word sentence is not a complete sentence. DOH!

Killer Dwarf
11-01-2006, 03:29 PM
You understand this yes? You aren't completely fucking retarded, are you?

You can't handle people having different opinions that you can you?
So you have to call them retarded? See this is why its pointless to debate you. I really don't care. I understand opinion and belief to be the same. You don't, great! Like I really care if you understand it or not.

wheelchairman
11-01-2006, 03:33 PM
It's not that you have a different opinion. It's that you're so stubborn it's become ridiculous. You dodge or flatout ignore points that prove you wrong. You bring in irrelevant points (like the importance of a full sentence) and you simply choose not to understand basic historical concepts.

So yes, you are completely retarded. I tried to be polite you to you. But you are a drooling moron who shouldn't have the right to vote. It's amazing you can use a computer.

JohnnyNemesis
11-01-2006, 04:07 PM
Can you read? I said complete sentences. A one word sentence is not a complete sentence. DOH!

Yes, it is, actually. Certain types of complete sentences are classified as a "minor sentence". They're just short.

Fucking idiot.

HeadAroundU
11-01-2006, 04:54 PM
hahahah
Killer dwarf, you are an idiot!
That's a complete sentence, actually. :D

GBH2
11-01-2006, 06:38 PM
John Adams, to get back to the question.

Killer Dwarf
11-01-2006, 08:49 PM
So yes, you are completely retarded. I tried to be polite you to you. But you are a drooling moron who shouldn't have the right to vote. It's amazing you can use a computer.

You have been "polite"? I must have missed that post. Let’s see, in this polite post you managed to call me both retarded and a drooling moron.

Okay to sum it up. "Reagan is one of the best Presidents ever", but again that is just my opinion.
I would like to thank duskygrin. She was the only one to agree with me.


Well it does look like an opinion to me.

coke_a_holic
11-01-2006, 09:15 PM
Belief: I can't BELIEVE that you're this stupid.

Opinion: You are one of the stupidest people that has ever been born.

While the opinion is held true by many people in this case, it's not always that homogenous.

HeadAroundU
11-01-2006, 09:37 PM
*turns on killer dwarf's logic*
coke, but you can't use the word "believe" when you want to show him what's "belief".
Show me another belief!!!!!11:mad:

Tigger Army
11-01-2006, 11:02 PM
John Adams, to get back to the question.

on what grounds?

the_GoDdEsS
11-02-2006, 06:01 AM
You have been "polite"? I must have missed that post. Let’s see, in this polite post you managed to call me both retarded and a drooling moron.


Invalid. He said he "tried to be polite". As you can see, the verb tried is in the past simple tense which refers to an action in the past. So saying "in this polite post" is quite moronic. Your comprehension of the English language saddens me.

78 Water
11-02-2006, 07:03 PM
We all know that this argument is going absolutely nowhere. When one side says something, the other side counters, and it will keep going on until one side decides to stop. Killer Dwarf is aparently losing, but it doesn't look like he will back out anytime soon.

grunge
11-03-2006, 04:43 AM
No shit how many presidents is america had

78 Water
11-03-2006, 05:26 PM
No shit how many presidents is america had

...What?...

Anyway, my vote also goes to Millard Fillmore and Franklin Pierce.

SkunkIt
11-03-2006, 05:43 PM
LOL, boy you can't stand it can you. I told you already you are pointless to talk to. Do a google to find all the books on the subject.

MB420 II ten characters.

Tigger Army
11-04-2006, 12:07 AM
...What?...

Anyway, my vote also goes to Millard Fillmore and Franklin Pierce.

On what grounds?

(Just out of curiousity, I know exactly 0 about both of them)

JoY
11-04-2006, 05:29 AM
Killer Dwarf, why don't you just accept the fact you're a disaster on legs?

Llamas
11-04-2006, 06:09 AM
Okay, dude. When you have an opinion about something, you feel a certain way about something. When you believe something, you think that something exists or a state exists. Knowing the difference is important because when people treat beliefs like opinions people tend to do two things. The first is that they discard the consequences of the possibility that the belief is right. The second is that they overlook possible solutions that can be found by addressing the beliefs underlying an opinion.

If I say that I like Linux, it is an opinion. If I say that despite the fact that I like Linux, Microsoft Windows is currently the better operating system for desktops, that is a belief. People can try Linux and Windows for themselves and if they can do the things they want to do easier in Linux than Windows then Linux is the better operating system. “Linux is the better operating system,” says something about the operating system. “I like Windows,” says something about me. Statements of beliefs similar to “You’d be better off if you stopped smoking,” are often dismissed as opinions, when it is a belief that if examined by the person to whom the statement is directed, may help them that person have a healthier life.

78 Water
11-04-2006, 10:01 AM
saying that you like linux isnt and opinion. It's a fact that you like Linux. An opinion would be saying that Linux is good.

wheelchairman
11-04-2006, 11:16 AM
I thought it was clear that her preference of Linux was the opinion, not the act of the preference.

78 Water
11-04-2006, 03:49 PM
I thought it was clear that her preference of Linux was the opinion, not the act of the preference.

Nope ......

Llamas
11-06-2006, 04:03 AM
looks like killer dwarf realized his defeat and left...

bouncingcoles
11-07-2006, 04:25 PM
washington was definetly the worst. haha

F@ BANKZ
11-15-2006, 10:55 AM
I don't get it someone American tell me what Washington did wrong, from what hear he was a damn good person, but that's just our british interpritaion i've never studied america much

Llamas
11-15-2006, 12:44 PM
He chopped down the cherry tree, duh!

Jack the Tripper
11-16-2006, 05:57 PM
He chopped down the cherry tree, duh!

No he didn't. That stroy's a lie, ironically made up to make kids not lie.

T-6005
11-16-2006, 06:25 PM
No he didn't. That stroy's a lie, ironically made up to make kids not lie.
Fucking stroys, them.