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Duskygrin
11-04-2006, 04:44 PM
. .

no_way
11-04-2006, 05:56 PM
If it's written by you, you should post it in this (http://offspring.com/forums/showthread.php?t=23806) thread. It's not my style. No clear subject and full of clichés. But I've always admired your wide vocabulary.

calichix
11-04-2006, 10:50 PM
everything you say comes straight out of a harlequin romance novel.

el_monkey
11-05-2006, 05:01 AM
greek > latin

JoY
11-05-2006, 06:36 AM
I used to love Greek. I just suck at it so much more than I suck at Latin. I was pretty good at Latin, until I lost interest, got behind & never did enough to catch up with the rest. that was the entire problem; I liked Greek muchos more, but I chose what was the easiest for me, therefore losing interest. I always need a challenge to feed my interest, so in the end I always end up getting bad results for what I find to be easy. plus, we had one extremely lousy teacher. & I mean extremely. it was the most demotivating experience I'll hopefully ever know.

either way, we had to choose an acient language (or pick both) at high school & I chose Latin. I figured it'd come in handy if one day I'd study medicine. I was just a puppy back then. aww. it, by the way, does come in handy every now & then.

0r4ng3
11-05-2006, 06:41 AM
The title implies that you're kissing on a dead person.

I'm just saying.

JoY
11-05-2006, 06:49 AM
unless, like, it's not to be taken literally.

0r4ng3
11-05-2006, 06:51 AM
Hence, I said "implies". I know what it means.

So why did I bother bringing it up? I know not.

JoY
11-05-2006, 07:57 AM
Latin has millions of exceptions to every rule. Greek is like Bach. it's mathematical. systematic. I loved that. but seeing I was terrible at all beta courses (math, physics, chemistry, biology being an exception), it wasn't surprising I was terrible at acient Greek aswell. & because I'd chosen courses that were for me very challenging, I didn't feel I needed to torture myself with acient Greek. (although, like I said, I liked it so much more than Latin)

the fact I was terrible at it, made me choose math, physics & chemistry. everything's like a puzzle. you feel like a minidetective solving a case. "what's that x", I loved that! before I wanted to become a doctor, I wanted to become a lawyer, also with the wish to place facts next to each other & compare them, untill you find out a certain truth. before that, I wanted to become a detective.

see? there's a motive in all of these future dreams. as a doctor you do the exact same as a detective; what really happened, what's the cause, how can we solve the situation. except it's depersonalised, which makes it.. human-friendlier. it isn't a matter of who's guilty of damage, but what's guilty of damage.

I'm off subject..
what bothers me in medicine, is that it attracts many anti-social geeks these days. people who will most likely end up in a laboratorium, studying cells. & this, when it's one of the most social studies out there. yes, math, physics, chemistry & biology are obligatory. Latin most certainly isn't. but one thing I believe; med students who took the effort to take a course of Latin, OR acient Greek (also many medical terms come from acient Greek) are students, I think, who have a natural interest & they didn't only do just the obligatory, they voluntarily did more than that. also philosophy is fucking fantastic when you study medicine. ethics control, or well, should control the entire medical scene. you want to do good, make people better, heal human bodies, then ethics is your friend. but philosophy isn't obligatory, or else we wouldn't have such a shitload of anti-social geeks in medicine.

even though hardly anything of my Latin courses has sticked, I think it's still somewhere in the back of my head proving itself to be useful. Latin definitely makes remembering medical terms a hell of a lot easier. & that also goes for acient Greek, although I dropped that course after two years. I don't think it should be obligatory, but I do think, that if medicine is where your interest truly lies, you should try to develop yourself in more ways than just the scientific way. & that goes for everything, that it's better not to limit yourself to the obligatory, basic knowledge you need for a certain study/profession.

we've entirely drifted off, haven't we, Maria? well, I started, not surprisingly.

killer_queen
11-05-2006, 08:28 AM
what bothers me in medicine, is that it attracts many anti-social geeks these days. people who will most likely end up in a laboratorium, studying cells. & this, when it's one of the most social studies out there. yes, math, physics, chemistry & biology are obligatory. Latin most certainly isn't. but one thing I believe; med students who took the effort to take a course of Latin, OR acient Greek (also many medical terms come from acient Greek) are students, I think, who have a natural interest & they didn't only do just the obligatory, they voluntarily did more than that. also philosophy is fucking fantastic when you study medicine. ethics control, or well, should control the entire medical scene. you want to do good, make people better, heal human bodies, then ethics is your friend. but philosophy isn't obligatory, or else we wouldn't have such a shitload of anti-social geeks in medicine.

I'm not going to say something about it because you said all the thing that must be said and I don't want to go off topic and all but I agree with the every word you said. Especially about the philosophy lessons.

And all these talking made me want to learn ancient Greek. I've always wanted to learn a language just for myself and for fun. Not something like that helps me to find a better job (like German, French, etc). Russian was the first thing on my mind. But I guess reading all those Russian classics is not that necessary. I hope I can find someone to teache me.

JoY
11-06-2006, 02:24 AM
Maria, "what's the translation to [...]" is barely as cool & puzzle-like as "what's the gravity force on this matter". you solve mathematical questions, you calculate them & you weigh certain numbers against each other, 'solving a case'. there are different kinds of knowledge & questions.

what you said about law, the exact same goes for medicine. you have to use medical terms among 'collegues', that barely anyone else understands. you of course have sworn secrecy. if someone has pain around the navel & as time goes by, the pain goes to the lower right side of the belly, it's likely to be an appendicitis.

we've made a standard (law) for what's right & what's wrong. but we've also made a standard for what's health & what's sickness, & that standard is just like laws different for every culture & society. we've standardised human health, like it's a mathematical question. law is the same; it's standardised human behaviour. you can't standardise anything that's human, but still these two studies do nothing but, to ensure our safety. both law & medicine try to discriminate between how it's supposed to be & how it's not supposed to be. medicine strives for health, law for justice. ethics therefore play an enormous part in both studies.

symptoms lead you to a differential diagnosis, multiple possibilities, which with extra information (also from lab tests etc) may lead to the ultimate diagnosis. when someone tells me about certain symptoms, I think about what possibilities are out, which are in & my suspicions go into a certain direction. I try not to exclude possibilities & keep an open mind for new material for proof. ("exhibit A...", lolz) it has about the exact same procedure as solving a case in law.

casus (lolz, Latin): a bankrobber is brought into a hospital, because after the attempted robbery went wrong, he shot himself. the clerk & the pregnant woman at the counter he shot, right before he shot himself, are brought in aswell. who do you think the doctor will operate first?

the one with the highest indication. the one who needs help the most, purely physically seeing. a doctor should be entirely objective & can not choose who he wishes to treat & who he leaves to bleed to death in the hallway. everyone has the right to get medical treatment. even murderers, rapists, even if they got injured on the 'job'... just like a lawyer sometimes (depending on the specialisation) needs to defend a criminal, purely because they have the right to defend themselves & to be defended.

this bankrobber I first talked about is lying on the operationtable & you're operating him the best you can. he's only partially anaesthetised (use your imagination on where he shot himself, it obviously wasn't his head) & suddenly tells you he indeed was robbing that bank, but that he's also raped four little girls. what happens next, you think? absolutely nothing. the operating doctor has no right to call the police as he's sworn secrecy (the oath of Hippocrates - Greek!). there are exceptions to the rule of secrecy, for instance when someone's life is directly in danger, but you become stuck in a complicated web of rules, laws, medical boards, et cetera, as soon as you step outside the laws based on the oath of Hippocrates. I think medicine is the only profession anyway, that has such a close connection to law, that it has it's own lawsystem with set of laws.

but enough with the comparisons. law isn't my thing at all. human behaviour is even more abstract than human health. I mean, what the fuck is justice anyway? bad health can be a factor in bad behaviour & bad behaviour can be a factor in bad health. so if you want to start on one end of that circle, the most objective one.. I guess medicine's where it's at. in medicine you identify the possible disease, instead of someone who possibly commited a crime. as I said before, it's depersonalised law - seeing what's caused harm & damage. identifying the disease, et cetera. suppose you're wrong, then I'd rather be wrong in saying someone has a pneumonia, than being wrong accusing an innocent someone of a crime.

boy, I've drifted off like WHOA & I'm late for school. *giggle*

killer_queen, a friend of mine is an acient Greek teacher (uh yes. I know weird people). I could ask her to give you advice over the internet, or something? I don't know. I still have my old Greek books, shall I look what books I started off with, so you can check if they exist in Turkish? whatever you do, no matter if you're going to be good at it, or not, acient Greek is seriously interesting, especially if you like math.

killer_queen
11-07-2006, 03:40 AM
Well, I'd love to know what books you used. They're in Dutch, right? Maybe I can find them in English, I'm not hopeful about finding them here.
And about your friend, it sounds fantastic but I'll start learning in summer so there's no need to hurry about it. Lots of thankyous for the help.