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View Full Version : Death penalty for Saddam Hussein



Stranger With Candy
11-05-2006, 02:04 AM
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6117910.stm

Tigger Army
11-05-2006, 02:20 AM
predictable

Not Ozymandias
11-05-2006, 02:36 AM
He won't be missed.

Tigger Army
11-05-2006, 02:39 AM
He won't be missed.

I doubt that. Though he won't be missed by me.

Amiralanal
11-05-2006, 03:53 AM
hanging, thats some nice shit

DexterWannabe
11-05-2006, 04:14 AM
i rather prefer choppin' off the head, BEHEADED!!!!!!!

Amiralanal
11-05-2006, 04:23 AM
i heard that you are conscious a couple of seconds after your head is separated from your body.

H1T_That
11-05-2006, 04:58 AM
I wonder if it will be shown on T.V

DexterWannabe
11-05-2006, 05:15 AM
i hope so, load up with popcorn and coke

Amiralanal
11-05-2006, 05:18 AM
I wonder if it will be shown on T.V

that would be fucking awesome.

DexterWannabe
11-05-2006, 05:20 AM
yep, but i guess it will only be on cabel

leo3375
11-05-2006, 08:05 AM
One: I am not surprised. There was no way he could have gotten a fair trial.

Two: Does anyone else think that timing of the verdict announcement was so that the Republicans could salvage more votes?

Three: Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11. Iraq had no WMDs. And evidence seems to suggest that Iran killed scores of Iraqi Kurds with toxic gas in the 1980s as an act of war. Plus, with Saddam dead, he can't say who provided the gasses that killed all those people (hint: the US was on Saddam's side in the Iran/Iraq War).

Amiralanal
11-05-2006, 08:07 AM
One: I am not surprised. There was no way he could have gotten a fair trial.

Two: Does anyone else think that timing of the verdict announcement was so that the Republicans could salvage more votes?

Three: Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11. Iraq had no WMDs. And evidence seems to suggest that Iran killed scores of Iraqi Kurds with toxic gas in the 1980s as an act of war. Plus, with Saddam dead, he can't say who provided the gasses that killed all those people (hint: the US was on Saddam's side in the Iran/Iraq War).

i think death is a very fair punishment for his crimes

killer_queen
11-05-2006, 08:19 AM
Mmm, I'm not sorry for him or anything but in this situation death penalty is just an unnecessary thing.

wheelchairman
11-05-2006, 09:00 AM
It might dampen the rebels. That's why I would execute him quite publicly if I were in charge.

HornyPope
11-05-2006, 09:17 AM
Lol he got sentanced for killing 148 men? That's "crimes against humanity"?

Mota Boy
11-05-2006, 09:25 AM
One: I am not surprised. There was no way he could have gotten a fair trial.
Are you suggesting that if he had gotten a fair trial he would've been found innocent?


Mmm, I'm not sorry for him or anything but in this situation death penalty is just an unnecessary thing.
This is one of the very few times I'd be for the death penalty, as he still poses a great danger even in prison, both as a figurehead for any Baathists and for the possibility that he could escape.

mrconeman
11-05-2006, 09:37 AM
Are you suggesting that if he had gotten a fair trial he would've been found innocent?
Exactly what I was about to say.
I agree with the death penalty for once...I never thought I'd see that, although I still disagree it should be a hanging, that's just harsh, couldn't it actually have a negative effect and strengthen the resolve of Saddam's supporters?
Making him a martyr with an un-fair death to them, and such?

killer_queen
11-05-2006, 10:12 AM
This is one of the very few times I'd be for the death penalty, as he still poses a great danger even in prison, both as a figurehead for any Baathists and for the possibility that he could escape.
Well, I didn't think about that. I didn't know there was a possibility that he can escape. I just think death penalty should only be used for dissuading people who can commit a same kind of crime. And if anyone has Saddam's ambitions, killing Saddam wouldn't stop him. It just would make people feel better and I think a person's life is more important than the others' feelings.

78 Water
11-05-2006, 11:09 AM
They're proably gonna make movies and books about it and everything.

"Is Saddam Hussein Sain?"

nieh
11-05-2006, 12:21 PM
Saddam Hussein? More like "So damn insane". ZING!

DexterWannabe
11-05-2006, 12:47 PM
that wasn't even funny

78 Water
11-05-2006, 02:34 PM
Dexter would think it's funny. You are so not true punx.

Venom Symbiote
11-05-2006, 03:27 PM
One: I am not surprised. There was no way he could have gotten a fair trial.

Erm, how was it not a fair trial? Mind clarifying?

I mean, not that he deserves a fair trial anyway...

But regardless, the trial was legit. How was it not?




Two: Does anyone else think that timing of the verdict announcement was so that the Republicans could salvage more votes?

Oh please. :rolleyes:



Three: Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11. Iraq had no WMDs. And evidence seems to suggest that Iran killed scores of Iraqi Kurds with toxic gas in the 1980s as an act of war. Plus, with Saddam dead, he can't say who provided the gasses that killed all those people (hint: the US was on Saddam's side in the Iran/Iraq War).

What does it matter if Iraq possessed chemical/nuclear/dirty weapons or not? Fuuuck. It's Iraq. The only problem with going in there is Cheney, Rumsfeld and Rice lied to us about their motives (not Bush, he's not smart enough). There was no problem whatsoever going into Iraq to kick some arse aside from the fact they came up with some bullshit story to sell it. If they had just said "Ok, Saddam's an evil prick, he needs to go", then fine. Anyone protesting that would just be a goddamn retard, for lack of a better description.


And as for the death penalty, hanging is harsh? Come on. What, you want them to lethally inject him or something, be humane? He was begging for a military firing squad, and they denied him because it was too merciful.

Lots of countries around the world still hang folks. I'd say for Saddam it's probably as justified a punishment as in any case that it happens.

Hanging is letting the guy get off easy, come on.

78 Water
11-05-2006, 03:37 PM
He should be BEAHEADED. And after that The Offspring would show up and play, you guessed it, PRETTY FLY FOR A WHITE GUY.

wheelchairman
11-05-2006, 03:56 PM
Saddam Hussein? More like "So damn insane". ZING!

Krusty the Klown in Iraq, you bastard. I have a long memory of the simpsons. Even though I haven't seen it in years.

ermdevi@tion
11-05-2006, 04:26 PM
Erm, how was it not a fair trial? Mind clarifying?

Think you could find an impartial judge in Iraq?

Venom Symbiote
11-05-2006, 04:37 PM
Impartial? It's Saddam.

Impartial is relative. As weird as that may sound.

wheelchairman
11-05-2006, 04:41 PM
Impartial? It's Saddam.



I believe that was his point. No one in Iraq would be impartial...

Autonomist
11-05-2006, 08:38 PM
Where was the trial held?

Venom Symbiote
11-05-2006, 09:16 PM
Baghdad...

SkunkIt
11-05-2006, 10:23 PM
i heard that you are conscious a couple of seconds after your head is separated from your body.

That's true, but hanging doesn't separate your head from your body, unless you're being hanged from a skyscarper, or something and you're dropped down with high speed and a weight in your hand, I guess.

But yes, If you cut the head off a chicken, It will run around for a while. I also heard the head is still concious for a few seconds, up to a minute or so. That reminds me of my uncle, who got his head cut off when a truck cut him off on the road and he had his head out the window. Just thinking about how that guy must of felt makes me shrug.

Tigger Army
11-05-2006, 11:03 PM
Dexter would think it's funny. You are so not true punx.


This is one of the very few times I'd be for the death penalty, as he still poses a great danger even in prison, both as a figurehead for any Baathists and for the possibility that he could escape.

yes cause the chance they'd let him escape is huuuuuuuuuge. Besides, killing him might make him a martyr I doubt that's a good thing.

Does anyone know:
Is death by hanging really standard in Iraq? Or did they choose this method because it resembles the way most nazileaders were executed after the Nurnberg trials?

Paint_It_Black
11-06-2006, 01:25 AM
I think he should have got probation with mandatory rehab sessions.

ninthlayer
11-06-2006, 01:28 AM
I think he should come hang out with me and be all eccentric grandfatherly.

the_GoDdEsS
11-06-2006, 02:05 AM
yes cause the chance they'd let him escape is huuuuuuuuuge. Besides, killing him might make him a martyr I doubt that's a good thing.

Does anyone know:
Is death by hanging really standard in Iraq? Or did they choose this method because it resembles the way most nazileaders were executed after the Nurnberg trials?

That was kinda my first thought too.

I've looked a little into it and it seems hanging is the most common.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Use_of_capital_punishment_worldwide#Asia
If you scroll down to Iraq and read the 91 and 92 external links.

"Under Saddam, hanging and the firing squad were common."

badtz
11-06-2006, 03:26 AM
Exactly what I was about to say.
I agree with the death penalty for once...I never thought I'd see that, although I still disagree it should be a hanging, that's just harsh, couldn't it actually have a negative effect and strengthen the resolve of Saddam's supporters?
Making him a martyr with an un-fair death to them, and such?

hem.. Any type of execution makes a man a martyr. And since death penalty existed, it never solved anything, never tought anything to anyone. It just breeds more lust for revenge and hate. Execute him won't make things any better. The shit Iraq's now in is only Bush's administration's fault, not Saddam's: first they wage a war against that regime that has no link to any terrorist organistaion, and though it was a dictature, it kept this part of Middle-East pretty calm.
And since when do the US care about democracy in the world? Haven't they established military dictatures all around the world during cold war and suported Iraq against Iran and then Iran against Iraq? I'm pretty sure they did. And do they really care about the violence they stir in Iraq now? Oil plants are surrounded by US forces but when it comes to protecting the citizens, no one's here or so few.
THAT DEATH PENALTY IS JUST ANOTHER BIG MISTAKE (or is it?) OF AMERICA!!

ermdevi@tion
11-06-2006, 10:26 AM
The British tabloids were as witty and eloquent as usual:

Link. (http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2-2006510450,00.html)

Venom Symbiote
11-06-2006, 02:00 PM
And since death penalty existed, it never solved anything

Except, oh, you know...ridding us of heinous criminals.

No biggie. :rolleyes:

JohnnyNemesis
11-06-2006, 02:12 PM
Rock the Casbah!

Apathy
11-06-2006, 03:33 PM
That reminds me of my uncle, who got his head cut off when a truck cut him off on the road and he had his head out the window. Just thinking about how that guy must of felt makes me shrug.

That's a terrible story, but It does make me wonder, why in the hell did he have his head sticking out of the window anyway?
And if his body did still remain able to do things for a few seconds after he was decapitated, I wonder if he pulled over?

As for Saddam, this entire thing was very interesting because They really haven't tried a infamous dictator before. Mussolini was trampled to death, and Hitler committed suicide.

I can't actually form an opinion on the subject. I don't agree with the Death Penalty, but for what he did Life in Prison does still seem like letting him off easy.

sKratch
11-06-2006, 06:35 PM
I mean, not that he deserves a fair trial anyway...

What does it matter if Iraq possessed chemical/nuclear/dirty weapons or not? Fuuuck. It's Iraq. The only problem with going in there is Cheney, Rumsfeld and Rice lied to us about their motives (not Bush, he's not smart enough). There was no problem whatsoever going into Iraq to kick some arse aside from the fact they came up with some bullshit story to sell it. If they had just said "Ok, Saddam's an evil prick, he needs to go", then fine. Anyone protesting that would just be a goddamn retard, for lack of a better description.

As far as that first part goes, try and draw a line between who "deserves a fair trial" and who doesn't. Besides running into a lot of problems with that, what the fuck is the point of "establishing democracy" in Iraq (wow I hate saying that) if you don't extend equality under law to everyone? If you don't think that's an issue then I'm not even going to go there with you.
EDIT:
And the second part... Yeah, nation building is like totally the best idea in the world! Let's go fix Africa! And Asia too maybe! There's so many bad dudes out there, let's kick 'em out.

Except, oh, you know...ridding us of heinous criminals.

No biggie. :rolleyes:

Once again, if your view of the judicial system is that its role is to remove criminals from society and detain them as punishment, rather than to rehabilitate them, then there's not much point in me saying anything. I don't feel bad about Saddam being executed, and would go so far as to say that I agree with it, but in general I'm not a fan of the death penalty.

Tigger Army
11-06-2006, 11:14 PM
Except, oh, you know...ridding us of heinous criminals.

No biggie. :rolleyes:

true, concidering there are no criminals anymore today!


I can't actually form an opinion on the subject. I don't agree with the Death Penalty, but for what he did Life in Prison does still seem like letting him off easy.

You think picking up the soap in the conditions of an Abu Ghraib prison is 'letting him off easy'?

ninthlayer
11-07-2006, 12:20 AM
THAT DEATH PENALTY IS JUST ANOTHER BIG MISTAKE (or is it?) OF AMERICA!!
You heard it here first folks, the United States invented the death penalty.

SkunkIt
11-07-2006, 12:47 AM
That's a terrible story, but It does make me wonder, why in the hell did he have his head sticking out of the window anyway?
And if his body did still remain able to do things for a few seconds after he was decapitated, I wonder if he pulled over?

As for Saddam, this entire thing was very interesting because They really haven't tried a infamous dictator before. Mussolini was trampled to death, and Hitler committed suicide.

I can't actually form an opinion on the subject. I don't agree with the Death Penalty, but for what he did Life in Prison does still seem like letting him off easy.

He was driving a truck and he pulled over and checked to see If he had a flat tire, by sticking his head out the window. That's when another truck passed by him, chopping off his head. His friend found his body in the car, then his head several miles down the road.

I disagree with the death penalty for regular criminals and murderers, but If you've seen some of the behading videos, hand chopping, etc. It's pretty easy to want to have this guy hung. Personally, I think he should of been hung from a skyscaraper by his testicles and fallen on a spike in the ground. Although, they should of tortured him more, also. This guy chopped people's heads off, If they said one bad thing about mohammed and cut off people's hands If they were hungry and stole a piece of bread.

I saw some Persian news footage while my dad was watching, of people being executed or having their hands cut off for an islamic crime and It disturbed me for a while, but just imagine hundreds If not thousands of people who are now dead or have no hands because of him.

ermdevi@tion
11-07-2006, 03:22 AM
Eh, what makes you think he did these things? Do you think a President would have time to direct punishments to individual citizens? Did you know he maintained a basically secular state in Iraq?

It is the new constitution of Iraq which now explicitly states that freedoms showcased in the constitution cannot conflict with Islamic morality.

SkunkIt
11-07-2006, 03:28 AM
Not the president, his followers. And yes, he did get some people to cut the hands off some guys. They showed It on the news. Same as the beaheading, killings and islamic crimes. You won't see alot of the footage on most news channels, because It's probably too graphic and would give you nightmares for a while. I'm guessing you can find this stuff on rotten.com too, if you actually wanna see It, but i'm not sure If I can find you the news report showing these killings and hand choppings. We have sattelite getting channels from Middle Eastern countries.

Paint_It_Black
11-07-2006, 04:44 AM
Saddam's no worse than the rest of them. Hang them all or let him go. I vote for the first option.

JoY
11-07-2006, 06:06 AM
i heard that you are conscious a couple of seconds after your head is separated from your body.

when someone's braindead, it's possible for the heart to beat on for a couple of minutes. when your heart stops, it's possible to not be braindead for even a longer period of time. (I'd have to look that up, but I thought at least a couple of hours) so the heart seperated from the brain/brain seperated from the heart, can still function for a (very) limited period of time, yes.

the concept of consciousness is very complicated, because the definition is incredibly unstable (of how much do you need to be aware to be conscious?) & no one also knows exactly how consciousness exists. after your head is seperated from your body, you stop getting signals from your body - the rates at which your organs function, the position your limbs are in... every interaction between the two is cut off. so it's impossible to be aware of one's own body & thus not really possible to experience a total form of consciousness after your head is being seperated from your body, because every form of consciousness produced by the interaction between brain & the rest is gone.

it's not like a decapitated person - body lying on one end of the knife, head on the other - will be as conscious to for instance say; "hey Pete, what you doin here?"

..that was one extremely weird image. *walks off*

JoY
11-07-2006, 06:18 AM
Mmm, I'm not sorry for him or anything but in this situation death penalty is just an unnecessary thing.

isn't it always?

death penalty is generally seen in America as the ultimate punishment, but I imagine years & years of imprisonment in a small cell without any comforts, untill the day you finally do actually die, would be much worse.

I understand there isn't enough room to bring that into practice, but still I find the death penalty a ridiculous punishment. killing a murderer, not becoming a murderer in effect, because it's not "unlawful", makes absolutely no sense to me. you'd say it has more to do with the concept of killing a person - ending the life of a human being.

every society agrees that this concept is unacceptable, can't be tolerated & that it harms & endangers society without question. but America is the only (Western) one thinking that actually killing a person suddenly is justified when it functions as a punishment for, for instance, another kill. that it's, aside from all morals, values & laws that society has, still a-okay to make exceptions on who can kill who for what.

what's up with that? honestly, how seriously do you take the morals & values that tie a society, your society, together as a group, if you make exceptions like these? & how are others supposed to take that shit seriously, then? I'd say it's pretty demoralising, but that's just me.

Tonza
11-07-2006, 11:15 AM
They're trying to prevent killing by killing...Where's all scence?!? I don't say that Saddam was a good person but imo life-time jail would've been even for him. He would've had time time to think what he has done.

Melissa_ab90
11-17-2006, 06:28 PM
Saddam's no worse than the rest of them. Hang them all or let him go... I agree... moreover, that's unfair... What a modern age!! what a democratic system!!!... they're just playing and trying to be God, 'cause they got ''power''(money and guns)

ninthlayer
11-17-2006, 06:44 PM
I think he should come hang out with me and be all eccentric grandfatherly.
That's a very good point Sean.

Tigger Army
11-18-2006, 02:29 PM
They're trying to prevent killing by killing...

Killing against murder is like fucking for virginity! lawlz

Llamas
11-18-2006, 03:57 PM
Killing against murder is like fucking for virginity! lawlz

like in Saved!? But no. Fucking for god, haha.

Venom Symbiote
11-18-2006, 04:42 PM
I still don't get the big deal, here.

He's alive, he's a threat. He's dead, he's still a threat as a martyr I guess, a trigger to incite more violence. But hey, just because there's a risk you mean you're not going to fight something?

It needs to be done. The lesser of two potentially harmful choices.

Tigger Army
11-19-2006, 12:20 PM
and how is not applying the death penalty the same as 'not fighting something'?

Venom Symbiote
11-19-2006, 01:45 PM
Because he's always a threat as long as he's in a prison somewhere.

Maybe he is dead, too, martyrdom or whatever, but there's gotta be a line. There's a point where you've gotta make a decision and just do it.

Paint_It_Black
11-19-2006, 03:05 PM
Honestly though, how could he ever be a threat in prison? His incarceration could be used as a constant reminder of our victory.

Venom Symbiote
11-19-2006, 04:52 PM
Piss off a whole bunch of his supporters to the point of raising the efforts of their violence, I would guess. As long as he's alive, they're going to be determined to act for his cause, right?

If he's dead, it's even more of a moral blow.

wheelchairman
11-19-2006, 05:19 PM
Because they aren't a culture that puts a whole lot of store into Martyrdom?

Paint_It_Black
11-19-2006, 07:18 PM
As long as he's alive, they're going to be determined to act for his cause, right?

Uh, what cause? We're not discussing Osama here.


If he's dead, it's even more of a moral blow.

You mean, even more likely to piss them off? Didn't you just contradict yourself?

JoY
11-20-2006, 02:07 AM
I think he did.

arak0r
11-20-2006, 02:38 AM
eh, fuck the death penalty

Bazza
11-20-2006, 02:23 PM
The British tabloids were as witty and eloquent as usual:

Link. (http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2-2006510450,00.html)

Trust The Sun to come out with something like that!

I heard the execution will be on TV as a pay per view thing.

78 Water
11-20-2006, 06:36 PM
Trust The Sun to come out with something like that!

I heard the execution will be on TV as a pay per view thing.

Really? That sounds really strange to me, getting profit from showing someone die. But I bet it would work.

Bazza
11-21-2006, 05:07 AM
Really? That sounds really strange to me, getting profit from showing someone die. But I bet it would work.

I think it's because it'll be shown on an arabic channel, which we don't normally get, so they've probably decided to air it on the internet as pay per view, or something along those lines.

Grabbal
11-21-2006, 11:57 AM
gonna pull that back

calichix
11-21-2006, 12:00 PM
Not a smooth move.

Grabbal
11-21-2006, 01:15 PM
Trust The Sun to come out with something like that!

I heard the execution will be on TV as a pay per view thing.

That's sick

78 Water
11-21-2006, 01:34 PM
I know, it's like Saw but a little more tame.

Venom Symbiote
11-21-2006, 02:06 PM
Meh, I'd pay.

Again, it's Saddam. It's not sick when you're talking about ol' murderer-since-he-was-a-teenager Grandpa himself.

78 Water
11-21-2006, 04:22 PM
Even though it is not sick to put someone to death who dearley deserves it, I say it is still quite sick to cash off of watching someone die, and to make an event out of it, even if they were bad or not.

Venom Symbiote
11-21-2006, 04:34 PM
How do you figure?

It's still a celebration, right?

78 Water
11-21-2006, 04:38 PM
Saddam Hussein's death is being rioted in some parts of Iraq.

Nina
11-22-2006, 10:48 AM
And if anyone has Saddam's ambitions, killing Saddam wouldn't stop him.

That's all I'm thinking.

Venom Symbiote
11-22-2006, 02:32 PM
Meh, it doesn't matter what his supporters think.

We (Westerners and current Iraqi administration) are the ones determining what happens here. We decide, fuck the violent supporters of the old regime.

wheelchairman
11-22-2006, 03:28 PM
Meh, it doesn't matter what his supporters think.

We (Westerners and current Iraqi administration) are the ones determining what happens here. We decide, fuck the violent supporters of the old regime.

You really are fucking stupid. It's called Politics. You control nothing if you can't control the populace.

Venom Symbiote
11-23-2006, 02:40 PM
No one can control that populace, they behave like fucking animals.

JoY
11-23-2006, 02:44 PM
you just confirmed Per's point.

& I'm hoping you realise you're as much part of it, as everybody else. you seem like a cocky guy, it could very well be you consider yourself "above the populace".



Once again, if your view of the judicial system is that its role is to remove criminals from society and detain them as punishment, rather than to rehabilitate them, then there's not much point in me saying anything. I don't feel bad about Saddam being executed, and would go so far as to say that I agree with it, but in general I'm not a fan of the death penalty.

exactly my sentiments.<3

Venom Symbiote
11-23-2006, 03:14 PM
you seem like a cocky guy, it could very well be you consider yourself "above the populace".

Above the Iraqi populace blowing shit up and shooting folks because they don't agree with a decision?

Yup, I'm above that. Above them.

wheelchairman
11-23-2006, 03:25 PM
No one can control that populace, they behave like fucking animals.

Saddam seemed to have them pretty cowed. And he used like 1/10th the military forces we're using.

JoY
11-23-2006, 03:25 PM
Venom; your ignorance towards every single foreign culture, that isn't Western & therefore slightly different than the one you know, is mindblowing - time & time again.

Edit: you still haven't managed to back this one up:
"We (Westerners and current Iraqi administration) are the ones determining what happens here. We decide, fuck the violent supporters of the old regime."
but I'm assuming you realised immediately after posting/after Per's post how ridiculous that statement was.

wheelchairman
11-23-2006, 03:26 PM
Above the Iraqi populace blowing shit up and shooting folks because they don't agree with a decision?

Yup, I'm above that. Above them.

Because Australians didn't just have a series of violent racial riots?

Venom Symbiote
11-23-2006, 03:36 PM
That was caused by a series of bashings and gang-rapes by the Lebanese.

We retaliated.

Not saying it was right, but it was caused by Middle-Easterners. Small point you seemed to omit.

JoY
11-23-2006, 03:45 PM
amazing. you're a discriminating, indifferent, bigoted, ignorant, uncultured, intolerant, cocky Australian. you must be so proud. the misplaced arrogance is unbe-fucking-lievable.

Bazza
11-23-2006, 03:54 PM
cocky Australian

That goes for all Australians.

Sin Studly
11-23-2006, 03:58 PM
Venom Symbiote is the type of discriminating, indifferent, bigoted, ignorant, uncultured, intolerant, shackle-nigger that makes me proud to be Australian.

wheelchairman
11-23-2006, 04:02 PM
That was caused by a series of bashings and gang-rapes by the Lebanese.

We retaliated.

Not saying it was right, but it was caused by Middle-Easterners. Small point you seemed to omit.

And you could say that Iraqis are blowing shit up, oh because some foreign army is on their soil, selling their assets, imprisoning their people, and butchering any semblance of normality.

But you can also chose to ignore that as well.

JoY
11-23-2006, 04:15 PM
That goes for all Australians.

now you made me wonder if you deliberately chose to be the exact same.

thumbs up for Per. doh.

Sin Studly
11-23-2006, 04:17 PM
thumbs up for Per. doh.

Just wait till he's sharing a cell with us.

Venom Symbiote
11-23-2006, 04:18 PM
Hey, I'm not patriotic in the slightest. I hate us almost as much as I hate them.

Just calling it as I see it.

JoY
11-23-2006, 04:40 PM
but still you tried to justify history in your country's advantage, when you didn't do the same for Iraq;


That was caused by a series of bashings and gang-rapes by the Lebanese.

We retaliated.

Not saying it was right, but it was caused by Middle-Easterners. Small point you seemed to omit"

Justin, with his commie ass? never.

Sin Studly
11-23-2006, 04:43 PM
From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs.

We need his tight man-cunt, and we have the ability to take it.

Sarevok
11-23-2006, 11:36 PM
Kill The President

Federation
11-28-2006, 01:42 AM
i got told there not doing it now :O

EMehl6
11-29-2006, 11:11 AM
I'd like to make a point to all the anti-Iraq war people in this thread.

You all say that most Iraqis are opposed to US occupation there, and from what you are fed by the liberal media, I can see where you get that from. But, I know this to be untrue, as I know a few soldiers that have been to Iraq, and they say quite the opposite. You fail to realize that media lives off shock value, and if they weren't twisting the stories towards what they want you to believe, they wouldn't get that shock value, and wouldn't have a story. Now, before you say something about the firebombings and suicide bombings occuring in Iraq, I'd like to point out that that is the very thing I'm referring to. These things happen, because, it's the Middle East, and as much as you're going to call me uncultured and insensitive, the people over there are animals. Killing innocent people and blowing themselves up in the name of God? And on top of that, they say the same god that Christians and Jews believe in, which is a much more compassionate god that does not condon killing is His name. You can't sit there and tell me those people aren't animals. My point is, its a much more controlled and welcoming environment over there than you have been told by the wonderful media.

I'd also like to make a statement to those who said that the war in Iraq was made on false pretenses dealing with WMD's. False pretenses my ass. We know damn well Saddam had them. Do I need to remind you all of Chemical Ali? Saddam had thousands upon thousands of his own people massacred with mustard gas, and you're going to sit there and tell me he didn't have WMD's? The scary thing is, we waited too long and Saddam was able to get rid of them, and now we have no idea where they are. They may very well be in Syria now, and their leader is far more crazy than Saddam. I choose to blame the liberals for that.

This is how it plays out:
If we didn't go into Iraq, and Saddam once again used his WMD's, we would have never heard the end of it. Why didn't you go into Iraq? Why did you let this happen? Why did you let Saddam keep power?
We did go into Iraq, and this is what we get: Iraq had no WMD's. Why did you invade? They posed no threat.
The democratic party, more specifically liberals, feed off fear and what is bad for a nation.

As for the hanging of Saddam, I saw that coming from the begining of the trial. Not surprising in the slightest. This will be a celebration of sorts for the Iraqi people, because executions are public events in many Middle Eastern countries, and hangings are done without hoods as well. Now, I don't condone the death penalty, because I don't see how we have a right to chose who lives and who dies, because two wrongs don't make a right, but in this case it really doesn't bother me.

I feel that I made my statements in a civil manner, so please, those of you that choose to respond to what I have said, please do so in an intelligent, civil manner. Don't attack me without backing up what you say and make yourself look like a baffoon.

wheelchairman
11-29-2006, 11:44 AM
I'd like to make a point to all the anti-Iraq war people in this thread.
And don't worry, I will not insult your person one bit like you feared was possible. We tend to differentiate between people who make paragraphs, and thos who don't. (Only half joking actually.)



You all say that most Iraqis are opposed to US occupation there, and from what you are fed by the liberal media, I can see where you get that from. But, I know this to be untrue, as I know a few soldiers that have been to Iraq, and they say quite the opposite. You fail to realize that media lives off shock value, and if they weren't twisting the stories towards what they want you to believe, they wouldn't get that shock value, and wouldn't have a story. Now, before you say something about the firebombings and suicide bombings occuring in Iraq, I'd like to point out that that is the very thing I'm referring to. These things happen, because, it's the Middle East, and as much as you're going to call me uncultured and insensitive, the people over there are animals. Killing innocent people and blowing themselves up in the name of God? And on top of that, they say the same god that Christians and Jews believe in, which is a much more compassionate god that does not condon killing is His name. You can't sit there and tell me those people aren't animals. My point is, its a much more controlled and welcoming environment over there than you have been told by the wonderful media.

I wouldn't say you are insensitive. I would say you are a racist. It's an understandable view point, they are (in my opinion, and this may make me a chauvinist) a less developed area of the world. And they have all the trappings that go with that. Second, my source of information may be the medias, yours is your soldier friends. Both sources have very limited scopes. I would like to think that the Danish media has not nearly as much restrictions on it as the American media does.

Be that as it may, it seems to have gone down the shitter, if the media is any clue at all. Americans are just simply not good at occupying places either. I lived in the house of a man who used to work for the British military for a while. And he kept listing the mistakes Americans made while patrolling and things like that. (Mistakes they made in Bosnia, he hasn't been to Iraq.) Did I mention all the military heads who seem to think it's gone down the shitter? Sure, your two soldier buddies may think it's nice and contained down there. But it's hard to take their word for it as well. Especially since American soldiers tend not to like Iraqis (fair enough, if I was in Iraq, I wouldn't like them either.)



I'd also like to make a statement to those who said that the war in Iraq was made on false pretenses dealing with WMD's. False pretenses my ass. We know damn well Saddam had them. Do I need to remind you all of Chemical Ali? Saddam had thousands upon thousands of his own people massacred with mustard gas, and you're going to sit there and tell me he didn't have WMD's? The scary thing is, we waited too long and Saddam was able to get rid of them, and now we have no idea where they are. They may very well be in Syria now, and their leader is far more crazy than Saddam. I choose to blame the liberals for that.

When speaking of WMD's we mean nuclear missiles. He had no such thing or they would've been found. The entire pretense of the believe that they might have had nuclear weapons was false (something about coil sizes.) There would've been some trace of where they had gone, had he had any. There would've been clear testing (like with North Korea). Face it, it's been what? 3 years now, and we've found nothing. It's time to admit that there was none.



This is how it plays out:
If we didn't go into Iraq, and Saddam once again used his WMD's, we would have never heard the end of it. Why didn't you go into Iraq? Why did you let this happen? Why did you let Saddam keep power?
We did go into Iraq, and this is what we get: Iraq had no WMD's. Why did you invade? They posed no threat.
The democratic party, more specifically liberals, feed off fear and what is bad for a nation.

No offence, but there is no relevance to this statement. It just seems to be a rant against democrats. Also republicans use fear just as much as democrats, or bank advertisements, it's called marketing, and it's what draws the most.



As for the hanging of Saddam, I saw that coming from the begining of the trial. Not surprising in the slightest. This will be a celebration of sorts for the Iraqi people, because executions are public events in many Middle Eastern countries, and hangings are done without hoods as well. Now, I don't condone the death penalty, because I don't see how we have a right to chose who lives and who dies, because two wrongs don't make a right, but in this case it really doesn't bother me.
I haven't met a single person who cared either.

opivy21
11-29-2006, 01:29 PM
To say that everyone in the Middle East are animals because of the actions of a small group of people is way too broad of a generalization. It's also a little bit stupid.

You can't say that these frequent terrorist attacks would be happening if the U.S. wasn't in Iraq. The numbers have been going up ever since we went over there.

EMehl6
11-29-2006, 01:39 PM
When speaking of WMD's we mean nuclear missiles. He had no such thing or they would've been found. The entire pretense of the believe that they might have had nuclear weapons was false (something about coil sizes.) There would've been some trace of where they had gone, had he had any. There would've been clear testing (like with North Korea). Face it, it's been what? 3 years now, and we've found nothing. It's time to admit that there was none.

I know there was never nuclear weapons in Iraq, but my definition of a WMD, and it seems to me I'm not the only one, is any weapon that can cause mass causualites and still effect the populous long after it's been used. (I.E. Agent Orange; Nukes, as you said; Mustard Gas; Seron Gas; etc.)

EMehl6
11-29-2006, 01:40 PM
To say that everyone in the Middle East are animals because of the actions of a small group of people is way too broad of a generalization. It's also a little bit stupid.

You can't say that these frequent terrorist attacks would be happening if the U.S. wasn't in Iraq. The numbers have been going up ever since we went over there.

I wasn't referring to everyone in the Middle East as animals, but there are a lot of people in the Middle East that are extremist animals.

Venom Symbiote
11-29-2006, 01:48 PM
There are a lot of Western people who are fucking animals, too.

But for once I'm partially siding with you, here. This shit needs to stop, and what, we're going to stop fighting the people who are animals just because some of them over there aren't? God no. It's an unfortunate but necessary sacrifice.

wheelchairman
11-29-2006, 01:55 PM
I know there was never nuclear weapons in Iraq, but my definition of a WMD, and it seems to me I'm not the only one, is any weapon that can cause mass causualites and still effect the populous long after it's been used. (I.E. Agent Orange; Nukes, as you said; Mustard Gas; Seron Gas; etc.)

But Mustard Gas wasn't a threat to us. And you can surely agree with me that we can't invade every shitty dictatorship out there, it's not our job and it'd be a thankless one nonetheless.

What about nerve gas?

EMehl6
11-29-2006, 01:59 PM
But Mustard Gas wasn't a threat to us. And you can surely agree with me that we can't invade every shitty dictatorship out there, it's not our job and it'd be a thankless one nonetheless.

What about nerve gas?

That's why I put the 'etc' at the end, because I didn't feel like listing them all.

But personally, I do feel that those things were a threat, because if we gave him long enough, he would've found a way to get them into the US or one of the many other countries he hated.

wheelchairman
11-29-2006, 02:01 PM
No he wouldn't have. That's ridiculous. Surely you have a better comprehension of international politics than what you learned on the playground. He wouldn't attack America, because America would invade him. Oh he sure would talk about it, but then again what better way to get his populace behind him? An American hating populace.

EMehl6
11-29-2006, 02:09 PM
No he wouldn't have. That's ridiculous. Surely you have a better comprehension of international politics than what you learned on the playground. He wouldn't attack America, because America would invade him. Oh he sure would talk about it, but then again what better way to get his populace behind him? An American hating populace.

I didn't know you could learn internation politics on the playground. Damn, I missed out...

Anyway, I wouldn't put anything past that crazy bastard. He very well may have, we just didn't let it go that far. About his American-hating populace, they really aren't American hating. They only came off that way before we invaded because if they didn't they would be killed by the secret police. If you can find an unbiased poll, may God help you with that, you'd find that a most of the Iraqi population likes America. Remember how quickly the civilians destroyed billboards, statues, and what ever else was representative of Saddam when we took Baghdad?

wheelchairman
11-29-2006, 02:21 PM
I didn't know you could learn internation politics on the playground. Damn, I missed out...

Anyway, I wouldn't put anything past that crazy bastard. He very well may have, we just didn't let it go that far. About his American-hating populace, they really aren't American hating. They only came off that way before we invaded because if they didn't they would be killed by the secret police. If you can find an unbiased poll, may God help you with that, you'd find that a most of the Iraqi population likes America. Remember how quickly the civilians destroyed billboards, statues, and what ever else was representative of Saddam when we took Baghdad?

Saddam wasn't crazy. If he was he never would've retained power for so many decades.

They do hate America. It's nothing personal, and it's not on virtue of our nationality either (strange yes). I'll put it to you that the majority believe that the states are controlled by the jews and that Americans hate Arabs.

You talk about unbiased polls, but it seems that the only polls that aren't unbiased are the ones that support your viewpoint. A viewpoint based on the experiences of American soldiers, who obviously wouldn't have much contact with those Iraqis who hate Americans.

When it comes down to it, the clearest sign of unhappiness with the changes is the increased amount of bombings in Iraq, this is the middle East, but this is not the West Bank. Not to mention the creation of a civil war.

That is simply the nature of occupations. Even the most succesful never go completely right (The Japanese blame the USA for their entrance into WW2, what?). Iraq is far less succesful than Japan. Hell the talk of pulling out, not to mention what appears to be a crumbling alliance seems to hint to a Vietnam like pull-out, let's be happy however, that it isn't a new Vietnam.

EMehl6
11-29-2006, 02:25 PM
Saddam wasn't crazy. If he was he never would've retained power for so many decades.

They do hate America. It's nothing personal, and it's not on virtue of our nationality either (strange yes). I'll put it to you that the majority believe that the states are controlled by the jews and that Americans hate Arabs.

You talk about unbiased polls, but it seems that the only polls that aren't unbiased are the ones that support your viewpoint. A viewpoint based on the experiences of American soldiers, who obviously wouldn't have much contact with those Iraqis who hate Americans.

When it comes down to it, the clearest sign of unhappiness with the changes is the increased amount of bombings in Iraq, this is the middle East, but this is not the West Bank. Not to mention the creation of a civil war.

That is simply the nature of occupations. Even the most succesful never go completely right (The Japanese blame the USA for their entrance into WW2, what?). Iraq is far less succesful than Japan. Hell the talk of pulling out, not to mention what appears to be a crumbling alliance seems to hint to a Vietnam like pull-out, let's be happy however, that it isn't a new Vietnam.

How do you figure soldiers wouldn't have much contact with the Iraqis that hate America. Those are the ones they're fighting.

As for the whole Vietnam thing, thank God.

wheelchairman
11-29-2006, 02:35 PM
Oh yes the one's they're fighting. But they don't know them nor get to converse often. Don't forget that for everyone that fights there is a proportionately larger amount that sympathises with them.

EMehl6
11-29-2006, 02:39 PM
Yeah, you got me there. I'm out of political energy for now. It was nice having a civil conversation with someone on here for once, and about politics, which makes it even more amazing.