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Noodles
12-22-2004, 10:12 PM
I can't wait for Bush to fix Social Security the way he's fixed Iraq and the economy and the environment and terrorism. Then I'll really feel safe!

What kind of Social Security (government run program for the retired elderly) do you have in your country?

GreenTerror
12-22-2004, 10:20 PM
Bush just screwed everything all up.

Rilex
12-22-2004, 10:28 PM
You don't think about retirement, are you?

GreenTerror
12-22-2004, 10:30 PM
me or Noodles?
If you are meaning me:
I don't quite understand you post.
and
I will destroy you.

Noodles
12-22-2004, 10:47 PM
My Mom retired this year, and my Dad is retiring next year, long before Bush's actions (I should say Congress' actions, as per Bush) will take effect. But I also have kids, family, a shitload of friends, and a whole country that I care deeply about. This issue does concern me, and it should concern you, if you live in the US.

If you don't live in the US, then I'd like to know what kind of system you have for retirees in your country.

Rilex
12-22-2004, 11:11 PM
I think to answer these questions- you need to go to the heart of what this program was created for in the first place -it was never intended to be the sole source of retirement income for anyone- but simply insurance in case of massive failure of the stock system, etc. Enron would be a great example of social security being the safety net for all those that lost their other retirement savings in Enron.

Social Security was created after the great depression to insure those that saved wisely, but, to no fault of their own, lost everything to an economic catastrophe would still have something to eat and not lose their shelter.

I think THAT is where the reform needs to be- remove the extraneous disability for dependents etc from it, make it needs based.

Go back to what it was supposed to be- a safety net, and that is all.

Rilex
12-22-2004, 11:22 PM
As for mine country, we barely have a government. And only thing that they can organize is an ineffectual president selection…btw, "we" are still hosting some Hague convicts, who are receiving
Regular retirement from our government (How strange is that?!?!?)

offspringbaby2004
12-23-2004, 12:11 AM
this is some information i got on the social security system in Canada.

Almost all of today’s seniors receive income from Canada’s Public Pensions. Basic financial support is also available to survivors and to people who become too disabled to work and their children. Income Security Programs delivers these pensions and benefits through the Old Age Security (OAS) program and the Canada Pension Plan (CPP).

more info:
http://www.sdc.gc.ca/en/gateways/nav/top_nav/program/isp.shtml


~mandy~

tatiana
12-23-2004, 12:24 AM
I can't wait for Bush to fix Social Security the way he's fixed Iraq and the economy and the environment and terrorism. Then I'll really feel safe!

What kind of Social Security (government run program for the retired elderly) do you have in your country?

Hey...I haven't post anything yet since I became a member so "Hi" to all of you.
About Noodels's question: Russia has a goverment programm for retired. goverment collects money say from each of your paycheck all your life till your retired ( and it's good part of paycheck I'll say) and when you'll retire you should receive payments monthly. But by the time you will retire inflation e ats all those funds you've invested in your retirment plan and you'll end up with pretty much nothing. And as of that not bad enough, goverment has no funds to cover current payments so pretty much most of elderly gets payments say now they should have December payment and they will receive august payment. There is much more to this story about paychecks, sick days pays, maternity leave and etc but it's to long . I can go on and go on so if you want ask but it is way to long and depressing to just type it all at ones

Noodles is gay
12-23-2004, 04:13 AM
If you don't live in the US, then I'd like to know what kind of system you have for retirees in your country.


Hahaha! So you haven’t heard about England's supposed system!

Well basically; employers and workers must put aside their own money that they earn towards their pension (which should aim to be approx. 7 – 10% of a workers pay, apparently.) Then when they are forced into compulsory retirement at 65 they live off this money, which similarly to the bloke from Russia ^^ is paid back to them. Methinks they might get some from the government as well but it’s like a tiny amount, if any. There is now a massive shortage of money for elderly people, so the government, in it's infinite wisdom, have merely said for people to put more away whilst they're still working.

It’s too early for me to explain properly, so someone is bound to correct me. :p

NB. Noodles don't get offended by my name; it was in jest and the archaic sense of the word.

Zee
12-23-2004, 04:22 AM
Pensions provide security in different situations of life:

The earnings-related pension insurance applies to all work carried out in Finland, and a pension may accrue from all work.

The employee’s and the self-employed person’s pension is mostly an earnings-related pension. They can also receive a national pension, if the amount of the earnings-related pension remains small.

The statutory earnings-related pension insurance provides security for old age, in the event of incapacity for work, death of the breadwinner and unemployment of an ageing person.


The pension accrues separately from each contact of employment, as a rule by 1.5 per cent of the wages from employment that has lasted for a year. For persons who have reached the age 60, the accrual rate is 2.5 per cent.

At the beginning of 2005, the pension acts will be amended, and the pension will, for example, be calculated on the basis of the earnings from the entire career instead of separately for each contract of employment. There will also be amendments to the pension benefits.

There you go.

nao
12-23-2004, 07:12 AM
My country has social security called a welfare pension system.
We paying fixed money from 20 years old. Then, we will be entitled to pension at 65 years old. (The age of retirement of my country is said to be 65 years old. But in Japanese society, it's difficult to keep on working that age. :( )I have paid the welfare pension and the national pension. But when we become 65 years old, I say with my friends that we can't get a pension.Because pension provision age isn't become early.

Kitten
12-23-2004, 07:23 AM
From the impression I get of the pension system over here, if you had a certain amount of money from superannuation or something like that, you are not eligible till that is gone, then the government will support you. Add to that they get concessions for both transport and medical, and I think they can get a subsidy for utilities. I would have to ask my grandmother on the weekend for specifics, but thats the general impression I get from it.

sKratch
12-23-2004, 09:11 AM
My country doesn't have social security because the government siphoned all of the social security funds to various endeavors such as war.

Satanic_Surfer
12-23-2004, 03:05 PM
Well Noodle boy and the rest of you....
There's been too much talk around the world about the great growing welfare in Sweden, our prime minister proudly claims it to be the worlds "fastest growing" welfare system of it's kind.
In the Capitalist society we live in, the one with money will have the welfare, that is the way it is and the way it seems to be.
In Sweden, such as most of the other countries around the world, the official age of retirement is 65. That decision was made by rich capitalists sometime after the Second World War, who were worried that their workers would have too much to say.
The "right" for workers to retire at the age of 65 quickly came up, overhere in Sweden, every tenth person has retired before reaching the age of 65 though. While the people who work through all their lifes til they get old enough, hardly get enough of money to afford to pay rent.
Through the years of working, some small amount is put away in order to pay your own pension.
But as if that situation werent enough. Not only state owned companies can save your money for you, but anyone who wants can do it for you and if you're unsure of what you're getting yourself into, you might find out some small line on a beaurocrat paper telling you that you at least have to be 99 years of age before you even will see those money.
No... the problematic situation doesnt end here.

A certain amount of your money (i think it was 15 - 25%) has to, by law, be put in big companies, often multinational ones, wich means that since all these countries in Europe does that, USA is making a fortune on that.
Many of the low paid workers in Europe has realized what is going on though and some sort of boycot has evolved, people are simply not interested in handing away their money into multinational companies such as Coca Cola Company who kill workers in far away countries located here and there in the middle east where there are no laws on such kind of treatment, if the workers even have the slightest interest in joining a union.
Or Nike who produce their shoes in North Korea where most of the workers work all days long with minimum paid (even by North Korean standards) where the price of producing one shoe is about 40 American cents, think of that next time you pass by a shoe store and see the prices of Nike shoes!

American companies are trying their best to keep up the money fluids from people around the world.
George W Bush did a good try by claiming that "In the war on terrorism, you're either with me, or against me." The good thing is that in Europe, about everyone knows that the word "terrorism" has not got the meaning that Mr Bush believes it does, we dont see people who were borned in poor countries, or who were not born white, as "terrorists".
By that, yes, i do mean that the war on terrorism and especially the war on Iraq and the rest of the middle east, is nothing but a huge Capitalist project to feed the money hungry on the poor. Bush is by that view, a great racist, racism is very unliked around Europe too.
While pensionaries never gets seen or heard, and the rest of the weak are slaughtered in religious names, there will always be militant actions against the source of injustice.
In fact, the only party in Sweden who has their political interests closest to the Bush regime, is National Socialist Front (NSF, a Nazi party).
Only different is what they call themselves... the Bush Conservatives and the Nazis.
After all, it is a scary thought, but both of them are leading wars against the weak and the retired workers with ordinary workers starving-pension are certainly a part of those so called "weak ones", it is a pity that the world is led by economical interests... but oh so ironic... it feels like we're struggeling against ourselves.

Nicole
12-24-2004, 01:55 AM
In Australia we have Centrelink, which is government funded. As far as aged pensioners go, if they don't have enough put away they can go on a part-pension or a full pension. I think they normally get around $12,000AU a year.

As far as I know, they're trying to get rid of it because we're having too many population problems and don't have enough young people to support the old people.

T-6005
12-24-2004, 02:04 AM
In France, a large part of your salary is taken away for public endeavors, of which one is pension. The richer you are, the higher percentage of your money the government takes. Retirement age is 60.

Of course, there's going to be massive problems, methinks. French people work the least number of hours a week, apparently. Plus there's long breaks and such, and a lot of benefits. But yeah, anyways, I believe that the original system works the way I said.

Over here in Japan, I'm not so sure but I think someone went over it.

Marion
12-26-2004, 05:13 AM
Our system is really awful just now and has just been debated. The executive wants to keep it the same, most pensioners too poor to eat. They have offered free travelling throughout scotland but not until 2006, at the moment they can travel locally for nothing. they get a grant to help with heating at the end of the year. There is a different system that the exec don't want in if you go to www.snp.org and click on campains you can see it there. there is also one to impeach blair over the war but cant remeber where it is.

Noodles is gay
12-26-2004, 05:16 AM
there is also one to impeach blair over the war but cant remeber where it is.

Hahaha, it'd never work though. He'd call Bush as a witness and then get away with 'diminished responsibility' damn it would be fun though. :D

Jhonny
12-26-2004, 07:16 AM
aah, usa, what a funny stupid dangerous country someplaces.
retirements in sweden, age : 65, get money you worked for and all your savings and live happy until you die.
something like that.

RXP
12-26-2004, 08:22 AM
The baby boon generation is gonna tear a whole in any economy. In the UK over half our population is over 50. We're gonna be the ones supporting them. Oh well.

noodler
12-26-2004, 05:51 PM
Is everyone familiar with the term 'pension?'

If not, that is the term given to a retired person's weekly allowance[at least in UK and Ireland]

Anyway here there is state pension for everyone who has worked most of their live which is paid for out of combined taxes. However is is barely subsistance and therefore people are advised to have a personal pension scheme to combine it with.

However a huge problem in Europe[not so much Ireland but Germany] is that there are too mnay old people[due to increased standards of living/health care etc] and not enough families having more then one kid thereofre there is less money available for pensioners and so tax rates are getting higher.

The EU have proposed that all member states have a universal tax rate and pension scheme which in theory would mean people like me in Ireland being taxed a huge amount to pay for elderly people in Germany's pension.

Sorry for the economic rant. [My other BA subject is Economics]



WHOOPS SORRY RXP, I DIDNT SEE YOUR POST THERE. PRETTY MUCH EXPLAINS WHAT I SAID IN 25% OF THE SPACE.

SicN Twisted
12-26-2004, 11:06 PM
I heard on NPR a few days ago that Sweden is #1 in the world for social security. I don't know exactly how they do it there, but every citizen gets a free personal aid upon retirement. Bush is driving social security backward and backward - his measures and basically forcing old people to take care of themselves.

RXP
12-27-2004, 01:43 AM
The EU have proposed that all member states have a universal tax rate and pension scheme which in theory would mean people like me in Ireland being taxed a huge amount to pay for elderly people in Germany's pension.



EU is gay. Tax harmonisation is gay. Most things the EU do are fucking stupid promoting a Europe while letting the 3rd world rot. They talk about the yanks doing the same yet EU does it too.

The best thing that could happen is redistribute income, increase tax on the higher income earners. 60% I say. But those middle classes would hate that, cunts.

Satanic_Surfer
12-27-2004, 04:03 AM
If you click back a page or two, you'll find my input on Sweden's retirement pension.
Not a very bright optimistic one, but there is one at least.
Over here in Sweden we're concerned about our grandparents of course... but that is just why we think they deserve better... they for example never get the hospital treatments they require.
All the hospitals really do for them is to lend them a bed in a room with white walls and let them lay there and rot until the state takes back the money they worked for, through all their lives.
It's disgusting how pensionaries are treated in Sweden, they deserve better!
If this fucking country is number 1 in having a good pension system... i feel a real big pity for the rest of you guys... your futures look dark!

noodler
12-28-2004, 06:39 PM
Well RXP I complete disagree with you and think maybe you miss the point of the EU project.

IN 1971 when Ireland joined the EU we were classed as a third-world country-30 years later we are as First world as any country per pound.

This is thanks to huge grants which we got from the German,French and British. During the last few years we finally became net contributors. And last year we took in more poor states in Eastern Euroope which will be a drain on our economies until they become as economically strong as us.

As a person whose country has benefitted hugely I must find in favour of the EU.

wheelchairman
12-28-2004, 07:06 PM
The economic high in Ireland won't last.

Ireland has the highest difference between Rich and Poor in the entire EU. (Even the conservatives acknowlegde this). Your economic growth, was really only growth for a certain section of the population, especially since you had to kill off your fishing trade.

And as most of the trade in Ireland is from foreign companies, out of every 25 euros of profit they make, only 1 euro stays inside Ireland, the rest is repatriated.

Satanic_Surfer
12-28-2004, 08:18 PM
So do like us guys in Sweden, sell weapons illegally to countries that are in war at the moment for 25 years (and still going)!
Trust me, Pakistan, North Korea and USA are all crazy about having more! :D
Though Ireland sounds to me, like a peaceful place. It amazes me that you guys even HAVE a Conservative party.
In Sweden we kick out anyone who's Conservative to avoid corruption and descrimination.
Our most right winged party you can see are the Moderates... but they're bad enough sometimes.
Though... there are 3 smaller (yet unfortunatelly growing) parties in Sweden wich are based on Conservative thinking.
Those are the Sweden Democrats, the National Democrats and the National Socialist Front.

PresidentKiller
12-30-2004, 12:06 PM
If you don't live in the US, then I'd like to know what kind of system you have for retirees in your country.

None. And that's true. Our stupid governor gives some money to the elderly, but that's just because he needs votes for the elections in 2006.

greencows12
12-30-2004, 04:42 PM
bush is a big huge douche bag. he turned osama bin laden into saddam heussin. He can't handle social security, he can't even pay the soldiers. time magazine voted him person of the year. He should of been asshole of the year. bush is a cunt that doesn't know what he's doing.

bdexterholland
01-19-2005, 09:46 AM
Hey Noodles...
Here in Brazil, we don´t have many programs like these you´re talking
except when some national organizations starts one...
...here we have a big problem with the "money distribuiton". Lot of people is under a "poor line" (I don´t know how tosay this in english cause i don´t cleared my english course) one demostration here is GloboTV´s Criança Esperança, we send donates by fone and GloboTV send all money for ho´s need...

...Bye!!!

wheelchairman
01-19-2005, 02:15 PM
The problem with the Worker's Party that is in power in Brazil, is that they are following the neo-liberal economic policies of the IMF and the WB to the letter. I believe it was a former head of the WB who has become one of it's biggest critics, saying that the policies just fail and that the smartest routes are those of India, China, or South Korea. (although the South Korea option really isn't available anymore.)

IMF= International Monetary Fund (or is it foundation, this is all from things I've read in Danish)
WB= World Bank.

Revolver-2005?
01-19-2005, 04:50 PM
meh...bush breakfast = oil orange juice, with a side of freshly squeezed iraqis, and for the maincourse he has Americas economy!

Well i dont like bush, he ruins everything, he ruins the world

Izie
01-20-2005, 12:11 PM
I believe it was a former head of the WB who has become one of it's biggest critics,

(Jesus)
Joseph Stiglitz, meh *runs off to study law* :-/

Linda
01-20-2005, 06:37 PM
I can't wait for Bush to fix Social Security the way he's fixed Iraq and the economy and the environment and terrorism. Then I'll really feel safe!



It just cracks me up how everyone is so quick to critisize, when in all reality, if any of you were in charge, things would be even more fucked up than they are now.

the original pyro
01-23-2005, 03:50 AM
It just cracks me up how everyone is so quick to critisize, when in all reality, if any of you were in charge, things would be even more fucked up than they are now.

thats why we elect people who we believe would be better. I'm sure a fifty year old former governor with connections would make a much better president than a 16 year old with a computer. But saying Bush is better than a minor is hardly a compliment. We've seen better presidents, and that is why so many critisize bush. He is too inept for the position he holds.

The privitization of social security, as proposed by bush, is ultimately an abolision of the program entirely. May I be the first to say what we need most in this country is to RAISE TAXES. Especially on the upper class who benefitted too much from taxcuts and increased the gap between rich and poor.

lost_nvrfound
01-23-2005, 08:05 PM
hey noodles (i just said hi to noodles, holy shit, that kicks ass)

bush is an asshole (and a moron... but u already kno both of these things so why did i evn bother saying it? the world may nvr kno... but anyways)...i personally think he's going to raid the social security instead of trying to fix it... all that money sitting there and he and his overly rich cronies aren't profiting from it... he's probably (in my opinion) going to try and siphon off as much money as he can towards his best interests and eventually try and eliminate it all together... he doesn't care if tons of ppl starve without it so long as he's rolling in green

...when will the pro-bush ppl see past bush's lies?... some ppl r so nieve (sp)

SicN Twisted
03-12-2005, 12:01 PM
France was rated to have the best healthcare in the world, and it's social security isn't far beyond. Unfortunately, France is horrible, disgusting public bathrooms and third world prisons.

SicN Twisted
03-12-2005, 01:36 PM
Prisons aren't just overcrowded, they're disgusting and unsanitary. I did some time in Fleury and I felt like I was in Libya.

SicN Twisted
03-13-2005, 11:16 AM
No, but violent gang wars, rampant open drug use, guards on gang payrools, and routine beatings aren't regular to the western world. Goddamn, American prisons are a hell of a lot better, and they're no cakewalk. Although I think international prison reform has gotta happen sometime.

Kitten
03-14-2005, 04:28 AM
Tricky question. Depending on which part of the US you're talking about. Whereas boors & churls are ubiquitous in Kangoo-land. Leastwise, as gathered from TV reports.

Maria

If you are going to say things about other countries, get it right. I am assuming you are trying to type kangaroo land.

KappaWing
03-14-2005, 07:39 AM
The privitization of social security, as proposed by bush, is ultimately an abolision of the program entirely. May I be the first to say what we need most in this country is to RAISE TAXES. Especially on the upper class who benefitted too much from taxcuts and increased the gap between rich and poor.

Negative. Bush's privatization plan will solve our social security problems. The real problem here is you Democrats. You're the nieve ones. You think anything that comes from Bush = bad. And I'm not gonna argue about that because that's usually the case. But Bush came up with something good here. This is once in a lifetime, and even though the Republicans are selfish in their motives, the Democrats are equally guilty of their cynicism towards any Rebpublican agenda.

Bush's plan will actually make people & buisnesses more responsible for their post-retirment income, and it will benefit the rich. But so what? they earned it. I say GO BUSH 2008!!! Wait, a prez can only serve two terms right? Damn.