PDA

View Full Version : The music industry has started the second wave...



DeAtHsTaR
12-09-2006, 08:56 PM
...of shutting down tab sites. What the fuck is their problem???

Apathy
12-09-2006, 09:29 PM
Mxtabs, the only decent tab site, has been shut down for months.

mrconeman
12-09-2006, 09:34 PM
Mx was the best tab site going ultimate-guitar is pretty sweet though.
But wait, more sites are going down, or your like getting news thats older than Jesus?

Anyway, it pisses me off because when I was first learning tab sites were instrumental (excuse the pun) in my learning the guitar, I'm over them now mostly and can do most stuff by ear, but people just picking up guitar will be at a disadvantage without all the help the web can give.
And as pissy as it is, the music industry folk have every right, if the tabs are in an official tabs book, it's against copy right law.

Apathy
12-09-2006, 09:44 PM
ultimate-guitar has some decent stuff, but it's lost in the sea of shit they they also have.
Besides mx had pretty much everything. Ultimate-guitar is lacking in some areas bandwise, despite having tabs from almost everywhere.

And although I've been playing Bass for a number of years now, I still am terrible at tabbing by ear. So I rely on them heavily, unfortunately.

DeAtHsTaR
12-09-2006, 10:03 PM
Mxtabs, the only decent tab site, has been shut down for months.

About a year. And bassmasta was my favorite, it got shut down yesterday.

Apathy
12-09-2006, 10:04 PM
blah, that was the other one that I used.

total suckage, ferserious.

XYlophonetreeZ
12-09-2006, 11:16 PM
Last I checked, azchords is still up. That's what I've been using. Used to use taborama.

opivy21
12-10-2006, 09:11 AM
I've always used Ultimate-guitar and it's not going anywhere. It's too bad that the sites are getting shut down, but what can you do?

mrconeman
12-10-2006, 09:22 AM
Really though, theres nothing anyone can do about tabs, even if every single tab site on the net goes down, people will start putting their tabs on P2P programs like soulseek and people will download them just like they download their illegal music.

XYlophonetreeZ
12-10-2006, 11:26 AM
Yeah, and plus people should just save as many tabs as they want onto their computers. They'll all wind up back on the net for some amount of time at least.

0r4ng3
12-10-2006, 02:35 PM
I just visited BassMasta. They didn't exactly shut down, but they should've. They removed every single tab, but you can still search for them. It's weird.

coke_a_holic
12-10-2006, 03:36 PM
I've always used Ultimate-guitar and it's not going anywhere.

And it won't go anywhere: it's based in Russia, where, apparently, the music industry has no power, or something. Pretty awesome.

DeAtHsTaR
12-10-2006, 03:58 PM
The bass tab archive just got shut down a few minutes ago.

Funny thing is, they really have no legal grounds, it's all based on fear.

Apathy
12-10-2006, 03:59 PM
I just visited BassMasta. They didn't exactly shut down, but they should've. They removed every single tab, but you can still search for them. It's weird.

That's exactly what mx is doing.

Except, you can still see all the tabs that they have. But when you actually try and click on one to read it, it forwards you to some long letter about how they got shut down.

Edit: Yeah, it's really not illegal to have a tab site running. The Problem is, is that it's not technically legal either. If they went to court the tab site would probably lose thus they all are closing for fear of potentially being sued.

Little_Miss_1565
12-10-2006, 05:29 PM
Funny thing is, they really have no legal grounds, it's all based on fear.

Yes, they do. There's a lot of publishing money to be made in putting out tab books. If the tabs are available online, there's no incentive for people to buy their books. Same with downloading music.

Llamas
12-10-2006, 05:32 PM
But the difference between music and tabs being available online... well think of it this way.

You can get in trouble for photo copying a book and putting the copied pages online.

You can't get in trouble for writing up your own interpretation of the book and posting the pages online.

If you photo copied the pages of a tab book and posted them online, that's grounds for legal concern... but writing up your own interpretation can't be legally disputed.

Little_Miss_1565
12-10-2006, 05:39 PM
Tabs are more than an interpretation, though. With a book, you have something physical and tangible. You can't photocopy a song (and I mean the song itself, not the written music). Thus, 'interpretations' on such things are much more narrowly defined. Music and the music industry is one huge grey area to Washington, which works great for me when it's time to do my taxes, but less so for your average kid who wants to learn how to play that bitchen Metallica solo.

0r4ng3
12-10-2006, 05:48 PM
I think in that metaphor, photocopying the pages in the book is like using a p2p program. I don't think they should've closed down tab sites. That's like closing down the website for Sparknotes.

Someone explain this to me: why hasn't the music industry gone after lyrics sites yet? If they're going after tabs, they should go after lyrics. It's both or neither, in my opinion.

Little_Miss_1565
12-10-2006, 05:52 PM
I think in that metaphor, photocopying the pages in the book is like using a p2p program. I don't think they should've closed down tab sites. That's like closing down the website for Sparknotes.

Someone explain this to me: why hasn't the music industry gone after lyrics sites yet? If they're going after tabs, they should go after lyrics. It's both or neither, in my opinion.

They probably are going to go after the lyrics sites, especially when "lyrics" is the top overall Google hit ever (even more than BRITNEY SPEARS VAGINA).

Sparknotes isn't the book itself though--it's interpretation and commentary. If someone wanted to make a website where they describe a song ("So it starts off with ths chuggy DUN DUN DUNDUNDUN bit with distorted guitars, and then the bass kicks in and the drums come in two measures later"), which is basically what Sparknotes does with its summaries, then that would probably be legal.

wheelchairman
12-10-2006, 05:54 PM
Ever see the price of the tab book? They are outrageously expensive.

The music industry created the market for copying their shit by charging outrageous prices for cheap as shit products. And this is what happens when joe dumbshit figures out the internet.

Sucks for them, they should've had some foresight.

Little_Miss_1565
12-10-2006, 05:54 PM
Yeah, they should have, but they're a bunch of cheap money grubbing a-holes who pay their salaried employees fucking jack shit.

Homer
12-10-2006, 05:56 PM
I agree with ilovellamas, it's just an interpretation of a song. If someone doesn't feel that the interpretation of the song isn't exactly 100% correct, then they should get the official book. It's like downloading a really shitty quality mp3 file of a song off of the internet. And wouldn't it be legal if we changed one note in the song in our interpretations? I mean, it wouldn't then be the actual song, therefor it wouldn't actually be like the tab book. The whole thing is very stupid to me, and I think it's just a way of all those fuckers reminding people not to download their music...

Who actually buys those official tab books anyways?

Llamas
12-10-2006, 06:24 PM
Tabs are more than an interpretation, though. With a book, you have something physical and tangible. You can't photocopy a song (and I mean the song itself, not the written music). Thus, 'interpretations' on such things are much more narrowly defined. Music and the music industry is one huge grey area to Washington, which works great for me when it's time to do my taxes, but less so for your average kid who wants to learn how to play that bitchen Metallica solo.

You can't photocopy a song... that's when filesharing comes into play. Filesharing and photocopying tablature is what's illegal. Interpreting a piece of music as to how its played, the tabs, etc, is as much of an interpretation as spark notes. Spark notes doesn't just summarize books. They use quoted examples from text and try to tell you what it's about and analyze things. It's not any broader than coming up with tabs for what you think the song should be tabbed out as, as long as you're not photocopying pages from a tab book.

DeAtHsTaR
12-10-2006, 06:36 PM
Yes, they do. There's a lot of publishing money to be made in putting out tab books. If the tabs are available online, there's no incentive for people to buy their books. Same with downloading music.

True, but it hasn't been established in court that they're illegal. The problem is, the MPA/RIAA sends a letter to the site's ISP. The ISP, fearing legal action, immediately drops the site if they keep the tabs up, as they don't give a shit about the issue. And since all the sites are basically non-profit, they don't have the money to go to court about it.


kthxbai.

Little_Miss_1565
12-10-2006, 06:48 PM
You can't photocopy a song... that's when filesharing comes into play. Filesharing and photocopying tablature is what's illegal. Interpreting a piece of music as to how its played, the tabs, etc, is as much of an interpretation as spark notes. Spark notes doesn't just summarize books. They use quoted examples from text and try to tell you what it's about and analyze things. It's not any broader than coming up with tabs for what you think the song should be tabbed out as, as long as you're not photocopying pages from a tab book.

Quotes are a lot different from copying something wholesale. There's such a thing as "fair use," and quotations, especially for academic purposes, fall under the definition of fair use. There's nothing even remotely illegal about what Sparknotes does, and there is mountains of legal precedent to back that up. You may think that interpretation as to how to tab it out is just the same, but the music industry does not--and the industry is a lot bigger than you are.


True, but it hasn't been established in court that they're illegal. The problem is, the MPA/RIAA sends a letter to the site's ISP. The ISP, fearing legal action, immediately drops the site if they keep the tabs up, as they don't give a shit about the issue. And since all the sites are basically non-profit, they don't have the money to go to court about it.

And this is why there's no legal precedent stating outright that tabbing music is illegal. The industry wants it to be, but in order for there to be a legal precedent, something has to be challenged and there must be a ruling in a high court. all this takes time, energy, and most importantly, money. Until someone is stubborn enough to take the industry on, the industry is going to keep getting its way.

opivy21
12-10-2006, 07:25 PM
I think that it's stupid to shut down entire sites because a few people want to sell tab books. The vast majority of tabs you'll find on a tab site are by bands that don't have tab books and most likely do not care who knows how to play their songs. Whatever the legality of the whole situation is, it's dumb that places are getting shut down.

Llamas
12-10-2006, 08:42 PM
Quotes are a lot different from copying something wholesale. There's such a thing as "fair use," and quotations, especially for academic purposes, fall under the definition of fair use. There's nothing even remotely illegal about what Sparknotes does, and there is mountains of legal precedent to back that up. You may think that interpretation as to how to tab it out is just the same, but the music industry does not--and the industry is a lot bigger than you are.

I wasn't arguing that my opinion is more important than the RIAA or whoever. I wasn't saying that the industry is even wrong. You misread my argument or something, because I was saying that there was no legal action that could be taken. These people can't get sued or anything for posting tabs because it's not legally copyright infringement. I also wasn't arguing that sparknotes does anything illegal. You seem to put a lot of words in my mouth.

All About Eve
12-10-2006, 08:50 PM
But they CAN get sued, and even if they can't actually get fined for it, it still takes money/time/energy/effort etc to prove it, and none are willing to go through that.

Little_Miss_1565
12-10-2006, 09:08 PM
You misread my argument or something, because I was saying that there was no legal action that could be taken. These people can't get sued or anything for posting tabs because it's not legally copyright infringement. I also wasn't arguing that sparknotes does anything illegal. You seem to put a lot of words in my mouth.

It's not specifically NOT copyright infringement, either. Like I said earlier, a lot having to do with music industry copyright protection and the internet is an extremely large grey area, and there is no legal precedent to test the definition of copyright infringement as to online guitar and bass tablature. Also like I said earlier, they don't HAVE to get sued, because merely the threat of a lawsuit seems to be enough to get them to cave. As Orange just said, they can get sued, and if someone decides to someday go to the trouble and expense to challenge the industry, they will be sued. I find it interesting that you're arguing that no legal action can be taken, because clearly, legal action IS being taken. Once lawyers are involved and serving cease-and-desist letters shutting these websites down, it's legal action. It doesn't matter if I or anyone doesn't think this is right, because it's the way things are, and a lot of people here seem to confuse what's legally possible with what's good and right.

I wasn't saying you were saying Sparknotes is doing anything illegal. I was merely poking very large holes in your use of Sparknotes as an example of a site doing similar things.

DeAtHsTaR
12-10-2006, 10:07 PM
As Orange just said, they can get sued, and if someone decides to someday go to the trouble and expense to challenge the industry, they will be sued.
When did Orange say that? I found one post by him in this thread, and it doesn't say that....unless I'm really that tired.

Little_Miss_1565
12-10-2006, 10:11 PM
But they CAN get sued, and even if they can't actually get fined for it, it still takes money/time/energy/effort etc to prove it, and none are willing to go through that.

^that one.

Woops, I'M the tired one. It was AAE.

JohnnyNemesis
12-10-2006, 10:18 PM
especially when "lyrics" is the top overall Google hit ever (even more than BRITNEY SPEARS VAGINA).

I refuse to believe it.

Little_Miss_1565
12-11-2006, 05:39 AM
Google releases its top search terms at the end of every year. Watch for it!

0r4ng3
12-11-2006, 10:50 AM
^that one.

Woops, I'M the tired one. It was AAE.
Oh darn, I was basking in the false credit.

If it's any consolation, I was so thinking it.

wennes
12-14-2006, 11:43 AM
Yeah, and plus people should just save as many tabs as they want onto their computers. They'll all wind up back on the net for some amount of time at least.

onde que eu encontro musica

Sinister
12-14-2006, 11:55 AM
Guys, stop whining. Get GuitarPro, get a MIDI file, import it. You have your tab and you can even edit it.

EMehl6
12-14-2006, 12:18 PM
911tabs.com is great. It has its own tabs, and pools from different tab sites all over the internet. It hasn't been shut down yet, and it's pretty much exactly like what MXtabs layout wise.

Apathy
12-16-2006, 07:53 PM
911tabs.com is great. It has its own tabs, and pools from different tab sites all over the internet. It hasn't been shut down yet, and it's pretty much exactly like what MXtabs layout wise.

Except that there's pop-ups and ads everywhere, Almost all of the tabs have errors in them because of the sheer amount of them, and despite having thousands of tabs still has very limited songs by my favorite bands.


Guys, stop whining. Get GuitarPro, get a MIDI file, import it. You have your tab and you can even edit it.

Does that sort of thing work for a bass? And if so, how do I go about importing it or whatever?

I'm really not even sure what you mean, but I think you're implying that it "listens" to the song and gives you a tab for it which I would absolutely love.