PDA

View Full Version : Live Agenda



ArtificialLife
12-12-2006, 11:59 PM
Barring the self titled album and most of Ignition, name some songs you've never heard them play live that you just wish they would.

I have in fact attended an Offspring show in the early '90s where they played Beheaded, Tehran, Thousand Days, Burn It Up, Get It Right and more, however...

A few I've never heard live = Something To Believe In, Not The One, Change The World, Amazed, She's Got Issues, Denial Revisited, All Along, Living In Chaos, DUI, and several others (add to the list)!

This leads me to consider the reasons certain songs are omitted from live performances. I know that they scale the crowd's reaction to new songs they play, but some they just never attempt. Although Dex and company are very talented performers, they DO rely heavily on studio processing to maintain their signature sound.

Perhaps the songs they choose not to perform would lose something serious in the translation from studio to stage.

Tuning down a half step every show (which they do) should decrease the strain in Dexter's voice ... any other thoughts?

ArtificialLife
12-15-2006, 03:35 PM
Any thoughts?

Hypodermic_89
12-15-2006, 03:38 PM
.....What?

DexterWannabe
12-15-2006, 03:44 PM
i second that... WHAT?!?

ArtificialLife
12-15-2006, 11:29 PM
Sorry, I forgot y'all are in middle or high school still. Here's somethign on your level that you may be able to relate to. hehe, Dexter is hot and Offspring LIKE rulzzz!!! Any thoughts kiddies?

Hypodermic_89
12-16-2006, 02:11 AM
Sorry, I forgot y'all are in middle or high school still. Here's somethign on your level that you may be able to relate to. hehe, Dexter is hot and Offspring LIKE rulzzz!!! Any thoughts kiddies?
No, that's not the thing. And by the way, we're not kiddies and we hate people like OMGOFMGFOM DEXTERZZX HOTTZXXZX.. Fuck that.


I just didn't understand what the hell you meant with your post.

nightvision
12-16-2006, 02:36 AM
I can't really choose any songs that I'd like to hear 'cause there's lots of them. I just want to be suprised atleast one time. I've been to three shows and I haven't been suprised once.
Last time I saw them (2004) I actually made up a setlist before I went which included the songs I thought they'd play. I only missed by 2 songs.

Amiralanal
12-16-2006, 02:59 AM
Any thoughts?

idiot. of course we can fucking read. YOU are the noob here.
We just think your post was very unclear.

Llamas
12-16-2006, 03:05 AM
Sorry, I forgot y'all are in middle or high school still. Here's somethign on your level that you may be able to relate to. hehe, Dexter is hot and Offspring LIKE rulzzz!!! Any thoughts kiddies?

Wow, dude. Calm down. A lot of the people here aren't in middle or highschool, including myself. However, you did not propose a proper question in your initial post. After two read-throughs, it seems you want people to list songs they've never heard live. A third read implies that you want people to say why they think the band doesn't play certain songs.

In the future, keep things short and concise. "There are a lot of songs I've never heard the Offspring play live. I know some of them they have tried live and haven't gotten a great response to. However, some of them I don't think they've ever tried. Any thoughts as to why they have never tried certain songs live?"

This is, of course, assuming that I understood your post properly. If not, then you really need to rethink the structure of your initial post.

Props on using paragraphs this time. Definitely made it easier to get through, if not easier to understand.

Venom Symbiote
12-16-2006, 04:01 AM
ArtificialLife, don't come in here acting all condescending, you god-forsaken fucking newb. Half of the people here are highschoolers who don't know what they're talking about, but that's why we disregard everything they say. You've just put yourself in a position where we'll do the same to you.

As for the topic at hand, I've always found it pretty funny they don't seem to play any of Conspiracy aside from "Want You Bad". A shame, in my opinion. One of their more overlooked releases, it'd be nice to hear something other than its weakest track in a live setting.

(I know this isn't all-encompassing, they have played Co1 tracks live, so don't bother pointing that out - I know. It just seems they're pretty minimal, perhaps the least played of the "modern-Offspring" discs.)

ArtificialLife
12-17-2006, 11:54 PM
"Any thougts" would generally mean I'm not looking for a specific answer or input to a specific question. I know the post doesn't have one "clear point," which is how it was intended to be. I believe that the multiple ideas I addressed are very capable of sparking some interesting conversation.

Referring to my second post in this thread, to condescend was not my intent. I just find it frustrating how so many people choose to overlook a more "complex" post because it's "hard to understand." I didn't foresee it to be confusing. If it wasn't easily interpreted by the majority here, perhaps I'll reconsider how I construct my ideas in the future.

To those who replied on topic, thanks. I enjoy your input.

rlplaymaker
12-18-2006, 07:25 PM
Any thoughts?

i understood what you meant, man. I agree, there are some songs that they just never play live. Or at least very rarely.....im still living for the day they start playing some of the better splinter songs live.....lightning rod and the noose most notably. there are others.

Oxygene
12-18-2006, 07:41 PM
The Noose they do play live, infact they played it right after neocon, the way they should after the opening sequence :)

Actually there are some songs they don't play live ever, mostly because now they travel with a big crew, and lots of preperation is required to play a song (program lights, sound etc), so it doesn't really make sense. The reason they don't play s/t songs anymore, is because they played virtually only those from since the very begining to untill after ignition came out, Dexter said they just got so fucking tiered of them, they're glad to play other songs. Doesn't work out so well for us...
Since the majority of people who see them are seeing them for the first time, and want to hear the songs they enjoy, their hands are pretty much tied. I don't think it has anything to do with what would be lost in translation, none of their songs rely so much on the studio, like editing, and effects, and vocals and stuff, that they wouldn't be enjoyable, with a well rehearsed live performance. From what I understand they pretty much decide together which songs to play, and Greg arranges the setlists.
As for playing everything tuned lower, I'm pretty sure almost everyone does that, it makes sense, plus dexter is no pavarotti, although he has DRAMATICALLY improved in the past few years... plus he writes the best songs in the world, for the best band in the world so who gives a shit anyway? :)

Jakebert
12-19-2006, 04:45 AM
His initial post wasn't that hard to understand. You don't have to ask a straight out question when you talk to someone in person, do you? No. He was just trying to start a conversation. It's pretty easy to understand.

And Venom attacking someone for being condescending made me lolz.

Anyway, I think it has less to do with studio processing than them simply just playing what the public wants to hear. They seem to try to mix the setlist evenly between fan favorites and hits. As for them not going with older material anymore, I think they just got bored with it. It happens. I can't really blame them. I wouldn't want to be playing the same songs for my entire career.

I think the reason some aren't even attempted is because they just don't want to play those ones live. I don't see a song like "Denial, Revisited" fitting well at an Offspring concert.

As for Dexter's voice, yeah, it sucks live a lot of times. He has trouble hitting high notes without studio processing now, but that doesn't stop him from trying, so I really don't think it's that.

Oxygene
12-19-2006, 04:13 PM
As for Dexter's voice, yeah, it sucks live a lot of times. He has trouble hitting high notes without studio processing now, but that doesn't stop him from trying, so I really don't think it's that.

He doesn't need studio processing or studio gear like an intonator to hit the high notes, he just needs to do borin excecises and go to a vocal coach to get this shit right all the time, and since his art is about mood, not ability to hit high notes everytime, it really isn't worth the effort.

Llamas
12-19-2006, 08:14 PM
He doesn't need studio processing or studio gear like an intonator to hit the high notes, he just needs to do borin excecises and go to a vocal coach to get this shit right all the time, and since his art is about mood, not ability to hit high notes everytime, it really isn't worth the effort.

Oxy, honestly, though, everyone has a vocal range. It's nature. You can take all the lessons you want, but if you're for instance a tenor, you're never going to be able to hit all the alto notes, no matter how many lessons you take. Some people have speculated that they think Dexter may have taken lessons before, if not currently, and he still can't hit the notes.

Little_Miss_1565
12-19-2006, 08:19 PM
What I don't get is why he writes himself melodies that he can't sing properly. Sing it with feeling, sure, but if you're seriously flat it's not going to sound good no matter how much you mean it.

Paint_It_Black
12-19-2006, 08:24 PM
Sorry, I forgot y'all are in middle or high school still. Here's somethign on your level that you may be able to relate to. hehe, Dexter is hot and Offspring LIKE rulzzz!!! Any thoughts kiddies?

Uh, listen to different music if you want a different average fanbase. You could also try considering something as simple as people just didn't like your thread. Yeah.

Llamas
12-19-2006, 08:25 PM
I've honestly wondered that myself. He sounds fine on record, with the production. But live? I've seen them once, and have a lot of live recordings... the guy can just not hit those notes, and it's definitely disappointing.

Also, I loved the intro vocals on Head Around You. I wish Dexter would sing an octave lower like that more often. Not most of the time, because it's not his signature sound, but I'd love to hear more of that. He can control his voice much better in an octave that he's not stretching his vocal chords in.

Little_Miss_1565
12-19-2006, 08:35 PM
I know, right? His voice sounds fuckin' *killer* there, and in the verses to "Amazed" and the beginning of "Pay the Man."

Apathy
12-19-2006, 08:57 PM
I strongly agree with the last two posts.

Not really sure why this thread spawned so much tension, as I thought the opening post was relatively clear...

Anyway, I'd really love to hear Nitro, All Along, and No Brakes. I have seen recordings of these songs before, but never actually listened to them.
When I saw them in 05 they played Get It Right. Dexter hit the vocals spot on too, he had the same kind of drawl/slurry voice that was on some ignition songs.

Venom Symbiote
12-19-2006, 09:04 PM
But "Pay The Man" isn't him singing unaided, right? Isn't it through some kind of distorter? Probably not a good example to use of his lower singing sounding good, since they could probably edit that a thousand ways to sound more clean.

Little_Miss_1565
12-19-2006, 09:10 PM
It's not a distorter, they just took out a lot of the low frequencies in the EQ so it sounds thinner.

ArtificialLife
12-19-2006, 11:58 PM
I remember some time ago I came across an interview and Dexter was asked why he chooses the vocal range he does. Of course he has a natural range to begin with, but even Dexter admitted he takes it to a difficult degree. His answer had somethign to do with liking the sound he gets on record by pushing his limits. I too think this adds to the energy and emotion of the songs. However, making records where you consistantly push your vocal limits from song to song can sometimes cause problems on the stage, whether or not you're tuned down a half-step.

And as LittleMiss mentioned, the verses of Amazed, the intro to Head Around You, etc. are very powerful and sound great. They carry just as much emotion, and exemplify how the correct use of vocal variation can enhance a song in many ways.

Jakebert
12-20-2006, 04:45 AM
I think a lot of it has to do with his age. When he was younger, he could hit those notes easily. But, I think he's gotten worse with age.

Oxygene
12-20-2006, 12:30 PM
Oxy, honestly, though, everyone has a vocal range. It's nature. You can take all the lessons you want, but if you're for instance a tenor, you're never going to be able to hit all the alto notes, no matter how many lessons you take. Some people have speculated that they think Dexter may have taken lessons before, if not currently, and he still can't hit the notes.

Yeah I know, but the high notes he hits in the studio are ones he can hit anyway. I understand that it's fun to always challange whatever I say for the hell of it, but I never said he can hit any note in the world. And I've heard him live at places where he was in tip-top shape vocally and hit the notes.. that isn't usually the case, and the reason he can't hit the high notes doesn't have so much to do with his vocal range, but more so with his hearing believe it or not (I also took vocal lessons for quite sometime, so I know what I'm talking about), the fact that the notes are at the borders of his limits, does however make it harder for him, but someone with a trained voice and great hearing can hit his highest/lowest note in a snap no matter what the conditions (after warming up obviously), and no matter what that note is, despite the fact that they can't go a half a note higher/lower due to biological limitations...

Oxygene
12-20-2006, 12:35 PM
Also, I loved the intro vocals on Head Around You. I wish Dexter would sing an octave lower like that more often. Not most of the time, because it's not his signature sound, but I'd love to hear more of that. He can control his voice much better in an octave that he's not stretching his vocal chords in.

That I 10000% agree with, that intro is one of the coolest things on the record.. and that's the only part of the recorrd I can sing without having to go an octave (or two) lower... :)

Little_Miss_1565
12-20-2006, 03:37 PM
And I've heard him live at places where he was in tip-top shape vocally and hit the notes.. that isn't usually the case, and the reason he can't hit the high notes doesn't have so much to do with his vocal range, but more so with his hearing believe it or not.

Oh, I believe it, I just did a show this past weekend with a sinus infection and I ended up cutting most of my harmony vocals because I just couldn't hear well enough to tune properly. But I've definitely seen times where he just wasn't making it to those notes. Clearly he can sing high--"Me and My Old Lady" makes my nuts hurt in sympathy, and I don't even have nuts. But when there's osmethign thaqt I often have trouble with in my band, I change it around so that it's something I can consistently (or at least, most of the time) nail.

Oxygene
12-20-2006, 05:13 PM
Oh, I believe it, I just did a show this past weekend with a sinus infection and I ended up cutting most of my harmony vocals because I just couldn't hear well enough to tune properly. But I've definitely seen times where he just wasn't making it to those notes. Clearly he can sing high--"Me and My Old Lady" makes my nuts hurt in sympathy, and I don't even have nuts. But when there's osmethign thaqt I often have trouble with in my band, I change it around so that it's something I can consistently (or at least, most of the time) nail.

Yeah, but needles to say you have different options... for one dexter doesn't need to sing harmonies, he isn't bother by them, he gets a very loud mix of his own voice and lead guitar into his 3 monitors (the rest is a fairly balanced mix of what's left). Plus he also has in-ears in sometimes (most of the time), so he's probably alot better covered than you in this sense. Plus the biggest difference, is he doesn't need to prove he is good anymore, to anyone, he can write the song, and if he can nail it in the studio and get away with it live, it's perfect for him... then again he can't dick around live and you can :)

Venom Symbiote
12-20-2006, 05:56 PM
Yeah, I think it's more of a thing to do with on a good day, he can hit those notes. He's not writing out of his range for the record, knowing he'll have difficulty doing it in a live situation. He can make it, but it's just that he wouldn't want to go much higher than that, it's about his limit.

Speaking of actual studio work, I know a lot of people don't seem to like the "Next To You" cover (I'm not one of those, I love their version), but what do you all think about the vocals there? His high note just gets me every time there, "Rock on!".

Little_Miss_1565
12-20-2006, 07:33 PM
Yeah, but needles to say you have different options... for one dexter doesn't need to sing harmonies, he isn't bother by them, he gets a very loud mix of his own voice and lead guitar into his 3 monitors (the rest is a fairly balanced mix of what's left). Plus he also has in-ears in sometimes (most of the time), so he's probably alot better covered than you in this sense. Plus the biggest difference, is he doesn't need to prove he is good anymore, to anyone, he can write the song, and if he can nail it in the studio and get away with it live, it's perfect for him... then again he can't dick around live and you can :)

Aren't we all on the same side? Besides, you're describing in great detail the many tools at Dexter's disposal to be able to hear himself and tune everything properly, because as you said, hearing matters a great deal to that, and yet he still has trouble with it sometimes, so you're not really helping him out. He can't dick around live, but yet you say he doesn't have to prove anything to anyone so if he can get away with something live even if it's far from perfect it's fine. Wouldn't you say the reason he can't dick around live is because he does have to prove something? My example of my show was just to show that I understand how hearing can affect singing. But every musician always has to prove themselves--at the beginning, to prove that they can do it and that they deserve it, and once up there, to prove that they deserve to be there. Bad shows happen. I know that better than anyone. No one is attacking Dexter. We say and discuss these things out of love. Relax, man!

Llamas
12-20-2006, 10:40 PM
Plus the biggest difference, is he doesn't need to prove he is good anymore, to anyone, he can write the song, and if he can nail it in the studio and get away with it live, it's perfect for him...

I hate this attitude. :-/ You're a professional musician. What you do for your career is perform for people and make way more money than it's worth. You should be putting your all into every single performance, not seeing what he can get away with at shows.

ArtificialLife
12-20-2006, 11:31 PM
Yeah, I think it's more of a thing to do with on a good day, he can hit those notes. He's not writing out of his range for the record

A lot of it comes down to how you choose to define a vocal range. Does it mean what notes you can hit on a good day? Or what notes you can consistently reach?

I believe it is the latter. Especially being a "professional" vocalist needing to perform on a nightly basis, if there are certain notes you can only hit on a good day, then they are out of your range.

Assuming this is true, then Dexter does write out of his range on the record (not all songs, but many).

At a great performance, Dexter hits every note perfectly on stage, but keep in mind this is while being tuned down. I don't believe this would be accomplished if they took the stage in standard tuning.

Oxygene
12-21-2006, 02:42 AM
Aren't we all on the same side? Besides, you're describing in great detail the many tools at Dexter's disposal to be able to hear himself and tune everything properly, because as you said, hearing matters a great deal to that, and yet he still has trouble with it sometimes, so you're not really helping him out. He can't dick around live, but yet you say he doesn't have to prove anything to anyone so if he can get away with something live even if it's far from perfect it's fine. Wouldn't you say the reason he can't dick around live is because he does have to prove something? My example of my show was just to show that I understand how hearing can affect singing. But every musician always has to prove themselves--at the beginning, to prove that they can do it and that they deserve it, and once up there, to prove that they deserve to be there. Bad shows happen. I know that better than anyone. No one is attacking Dexter. We say and discuss these things out of love. Relax, man!

Yeah we are, and I'm relaxed.. I'm just saying things are different for you and him, and I don't expect him to always hit the high notes, besides even when he's off you can barely notice live.. you have to be listening for it.. and in recording it really doesn't matter to me.

Oxygene
12-21-2006, 02:47 AM
I hate this attitude. :-/ You're a professional musician. What you do for your career is perform for people and make way more money than it's worth. You should be putting your all into every single performance, not seeing what he can get away with at shows.

First of all.. he has a life, and I don't expect him to sacrafice everything to hit every note. He isn't a session musician or an opera singer, those are the ones that need to have it on the money all the time.. he is the lead singer of the offspring and song writer (the best in the world as far as I'm concerned), plus punk rock shows are about alot more then high notes hit and smooth harmonies and what not. It's about fun and great songs, and the entertainment value of an Offspring show is second to none, thus he is actually doing what you expect of him. If these things really matter to you, then the question why aren't you a backstreet boys fan is begging to be asked.. shit they hit every note, and it's 5 of them, and they did put all their LIVES into just the group (esp in the begininng).. these things aren't important to me.. yeah he needs to try hard, but he's never gonna be a pavorotti, and I don't expect him to be either, I like him fine the way he is...

Oxygene
12-21-2006, 02:48 AM
At a great performance, Dexter hits every note perfectly on stage, but keep in mind this is while being tuned down. I don't believe this would be accomplished if they took the stage in standard tuning.

Dude it's half a note.. that's jack shit. You should think of it this way.. in the studio they play half a step tuned up, to make the album even more badass :)

Jakebert
12-21-2006, 04:41 AM
First of all.. he has a life, and I don't expect him to sacrafice everything to hit every note. He isn't a session musician or an opera singer, those are the ones that need to have it on the money all the time.. he is the lead singer of the offspring and song writer (the best in the world as far as I'm concerned), plus punk rock shows are about alot more then high notes hit and smooth harmonies and what not. It's about fun and great songs, and the entertainment value of an Offspring show is second to none, thus he is actually doing what you expect of him. If these things really matter to you, then the question why aren't you a backstreet boys fan is begging to be asked.. shit they hit every note, and it's 5 of them, and they did put all their LIVES into just the group (esp in the begininng).. these things aren't important to me.. yeah he needs to try hard, but he's never gonna be a pavorotti, and I don't expect him to be either, I like him fine the way he is...

No, he should have it on the money all the time. His job is singing and playing guitar in a band, so therefore, he should do it right. It's not like he's some guy playing in a bar band on the weekends for fun, this is a professional who's performing in front of millions of hopeful fans. If he doesn't get it right, then the entertainment value of the show goes down. To some people, like myself, when I go see a band, their enjoyment level is based mostly on how well the band performs, not the concert atmosphere, lighting, and stage effects. If the band is doing something wrong, then I'm not going to have as much fun as I would if the band did it right.

And, you bring up that it's a punk rock show, but it's different than that. In a little shithole club where it's some small band who isn't notable for vocal harmonies, then being off key is fine because it's not important to the song. But one of the key elements to the Offspring's music is their vocal hamronies. And if those aren't pulled off right, the songs aren't the same.

The Backstreet Boys thing was just plain dumb. Just because someone wants some degree of professionalism in the music they listen to doesn't mean that they want to listen to the Backstreet Boys.

Oxygene
12-21-2006, 09:05 AM
No, he should have it on the money all the time. His job is singing and playing guitar in a band, so therefore, he should do it right. It's not like he's some guy playing in a bar band on the weekends for fun, this is a professional who's performing in front of millions of hopeful fans. If he doesn't get it right, then the entertainment value of the show goes down. To some people, like myself, when I go see a band, their enjoyment level is based mostly on how well the band performs, not the concert atmosphere, lighting, and stage effects. If the band is doing something wrong, then I'm not going to have as much fun as I would if the band did it right.

Again it's how you define the things you are talking about. IMHO his #1 job is writing the best songs in the world, and to most people, their enjoyment level is based on which songs are played live, not wether or not higgins hit every harmony note. If your enjoyment level is based on how well the band performs, I have no clue, why you thought the BSB example was dumb.


And, you bring up that it's a punk rock show, but it's different than that. In a little shithole club where it's some small band who isn't notable for vocal harmonies, then being off key is fine because it's not important to the song. But one of the key elements to the Offspring's music is their vocal hamronies. And if those aren't pulled off right, the songs aren't the same.

I personally think the use of harmonies within offspring's music doesn't even have a major role, their music is based on catchy but ripping tunes, and awesome lyrics, vocal harmonies are among many many instruments they use, it's by no means a key element, as far as my love of their music is conserned. And actually yes it is a punk rock show, the best venue to see the offspring at is still the little 200 person shit hole clubs, not the big arenas.


The Backstreet Boys thing was just plain dumb. Just because someone wants some degree of professionalism in the music they listen to doesn't mean that they want to listen to the Backstreet Boys.

No it wasn't dumb, you aren't talking about "some degree of professionalism" you are talking about "perfectionism" ("He should have it on the money all the time"), and groups like BSB were about vocal perfectionism (amongst other things, like dance moves, and looks)... rock and roll bands never were, sure everyone tries hard, some more than others, but as long as you've got cool tunes, and a good heart, and can sing on key, you have nothing standing in your way.

Llamas
12-21-2006, 09:07 AM
First of all.. he has a life, and I don't expect him to sacrafice everything to hit every note. He isn't a session musician or an opera singer, those are the ones that need to have it on the money all the time..
Wait, session musicians and opera singers are supposed to put their everything into their work, but the singer of a very famous pop/punk band isn't supposed to? That just doesn't add up.


plus punk rock shows are about alot more then high notes hit and smooth harmonies and what not. It's about fun and great songs, and the entertainment value of an Offspring show is second to none, thus he is actually doing what you expect of him.
As jakebert said, the offspring is not a typical punk show. It's huge concert venues with people paying upwards of $30 a ticket. Not a bunch of kids cramming to a basement for a $2 cover, with the band leaving splitting $50 among themselves.


If these things really matter to you, then the question why aren't you a backstreet boys fan is begging to be asked.. shit they hit every note, and it's 5 of them, and they did put all their LIVES into just the group (esp in the begininng)..
What? This is the worst analogy ever. I actually greatly respect the fact that the backstreet boys and nsync have a lot of musical talent in their voices. I also used to be fans of each group when I was younger. Their music is just not my thing anymore. Just because someone is an amazingly talented musician puts a lot of time into their performance doesn't make me a fan. Again, worst analogy ever.


these things aren't important to me.. yeah he needs to try hard, but he's never gonna be a pavorotti, and I don't expect him to be either, I like him fine the way he is...
Who's expecting him to be Pavorotti?? I never claimed that Dexter isn't a good enough singer, or that he needs to take lessons to become a god of the stage. I said that, if he CAN do it, he should. If he is able to hit all the notes at some shows, there's no reason he shouldn't be doing it at ALL the shows. That's just being lazy.

Oxygene
12-21-2006, 09:17 AM
Wait, session musicians and opera singers are supposed to put their everything into their work, but the singer of a very famous pop/punk band isn't supposed to? That just doesn't add up.

Yeah their jobs is to sing the operas as famous composers of those pieces dreamed them up, and sessions musicians are paid to hit the notes they are told. Dexter's job is basically being Dexter (writing, playing guitar, singing etc.), and he seems pretty good at it. The thing that differfentiates him from the rest is his art, not his vocal skills. I'm not saying he should sing off key, but if it happens no big deal...


As jakebert said, the offspring is not a typical punk show. It's huge concert venues with people paying upwards of $30 a ticket. Not a bunch of kids cramming to a basement for a $2 cover, with the band leaving splitting $50 among themselves.

Just because it isn't your typical punk show it still is a punk show... and I've seen them twice in small clubs for small covers (not 2 but 3 pounds so big deal)


What? This is the worst analogy ever. I actually greatly respect the fact that the backstreet boys and nsync have a lot of musical talent in their voices. I also used to be fans of each group when I was younger. Their music is just not my thing anymore. Just because someone is an amazingly talented musician puts a lot of time into their performance doesn't make me a fan. Again, worst analogy ever.

No if you want "all notes all the time" your looking in the wrong genre of rock music. Sure there are singers that perform perfectly in this genre too, but that's never what this was about... and they are still the exception


Who's expecting him to be Pavorotti?? I never claimed that Dexter isn't a good enough singer, or that he needs to take lessons to become a god of the stage. I said that, if he CAN do it, he should. If he is able to hit all the notes at some shows, there's no reason he shouldn't be doing it at ALL the shows. That's just being lazy.

No it isn't being lazy, it's either having a good night or not.. it depends on lotsa stuff. blah...

Jakebert
12-21-2006, 04:57 PM
Again it's how you define the things you are talking about. IMHO his #1 job is writing the best songs in the world, and to most people, their enjoyment level is based on which songs are played live, not wether or not higgins hit every harmony note. If your enjoyment level is based on how well the band performs, I have no clue, why you thought the BSB example was dumb.

You're right, a big part of his job is writing good songs. And part of what makes a song good is whether or not he can perform it well. If he's writing a song in a certain key, then he should be able to hit that key with minimal problems instead of constantly having to reach and struggle to hit notes.

And you're actually saying that a band's live performance shouldn't be based on how well they perform? What the hell kind of concerts have you been to? And you're right, it is based on what songs they play, and how they play them. What you're saying is that a band can completey suck ass live, and you'd still like them if they play songs that sounded good on their albums.


I personally think the use of harmonies within offspring's music doesn't even have a major role, their music is based on catchy but ripping tunes, and awesome lyrics, vocal harmonies are among many many instruments they use, it's by no means a key element, as far as my love of their music is conserned. And actually yes it is a punk rock show, the best venue to see the offspring at is still the little 200 person shit hole clubs, not the big arenas.

You say harmonies aren't important, but then go on to say that the catchiness is what makes them good. The harmonies are the main factor in the Offspring's catchiness, and one of the few things that critics give them a lot of credit for. And it's the one thing that they're really good at, because let's face it, they aren't amazing musicians in a technical sense.

And there's a huge difference between a band who plays nothing but clubs and a band that plays clubs in between arena shows. Arena shows can cost anywhere from 20-45 dollars, sometimes higher. For 30 bucks a ticket, the band better play well. If Dexter can't hit the right notes because he purposely writes songs out of his natural range, then people have the right to complain when they've spent that kind of money on a concert.


No it wasn't dumb, you aren't talking about "some degree of professionalism" you are talking about "perfectionism" ("He should have it on the money all the time"), and groups like BSB were about vocal perfectionism (amongst other things, like dance moves, and looks)... rock and roll bands never were, sure everyone tries hard, some more than others, but as long as you've got cool tunes, and a good heart, and can sing on key, you have nothing standing in your way.

It's not perfectionism to ask a singer to live up to the standards they set. If a singer does something on an album, they should be able to at least come close live. And from a lot of the live Offspring stuff I've heard/seen, Dexter has trouble doing this.

And, the whole point we've been making, is that Dexter is off key. I hate to be a jerk, but seriously: can you even read? Because every post has essentially been about that, and now you're doing a 180 and saying that he should be on key.

Llamas
12-21-2006, 06:26 PM
I was going to reply to oxy's post... but jakebert said it for me, word for word.

Oxygene
12-22-2006, 06:17 AM
You're right, a big part of his job is writing good songs. And part of what makes a song good is whether or not he can perform it well. If he's writing a song in a certain key, then he should be able to hit that key with minimal problems instead of constantly having to reach and struggle to hit notes.

I see it differently.. I think he should make the song the best he can, and if he can't hit the highest notes on some off nights, the studio recording of the song shouldn't have to suffer, and it still should be the best he can make it. He shouldn't make it easy on himself, just because sometimes he won't be able to hit those notes.


And you're actually saying that a band's live performance shouldn't be based on how well they perform? What the hell kind of concerts have you been to? And you're right, it is based on what songs they play, and how they play them. What you're saying is that a band can completey suck ass live, and you'd still like them if they play songs that sounded good on their albums.

Yeah, and you were saying the same thing, when you trashed the bsb example.. you tell me what's wrong with their performance per se? Nothing, but it still blows cock for some reason.. that reason is ART. or more the lack of it.. I've been to quite a few concerts, and I believe I've seen enough (of both the offspring and other bands) to know what I'm talking about. No I'm not saying a band can completly suck ass live, but the offspring don't suck ass live, as far as I'm concerned, and according to what I consider "sucking ass live".. if your definition of suck ass live is what the offspring are doing, then I guess according to your high standards it's more then acceptable to me for a band to suck ass live. What I'm saying is it doesn't matter if some notes are off key sometimes, and the songs shouldn't have to suffer because of that.


You say harmonies aren't important, but then go on to say that the catchiness is what makes them good. The harmonies are the main factor in the Offspring's catchiness, and one of the few things that critics give them a lot of credit for. And it's the one thing that they're really good at, because let's face it, they aren't amazing musicians in a technical sense.

First off I never gave a fuck about what critics think. Most of the time the majority of peopel don't even know where the harmonies are, and harmonies don't have alot to do with melody. The melodies Dexter thinks up are catchy, and that's what makes them unique (that's why they sound good even with a monophone ring tone). The harmonies they use are nothing special standard "terc" or whatever harmonies most of the time, they arne't amazing musicians in a technical sense, and the only thing that makes them different is their songs and lyrics, not their harmonies, or drumbeats or anything of that sort.


And there's a huge difference between a band who plays nothing but clubs and a band that plays clubs in between arena shows. Arena shows can cost anywhere from 20-45 dollars, sometimes higher. For 30 bucks a ticket, the band better play well. If Dexter can't hit the right notes because he purposely writes songs out of his natural range, then people have the right to complain when they've spent that kind of money on a concert.

Yeah there is, but that difference isn't called "punk". And if the people want perfect vocals they shouldn't go to an offspring show and spend money


It's not perfectionism to ask a singer to live up to the standards they set. If a singer does something on an album, they should be able to at least come close live. And from a lot of the live Offspring stuff I've heard/seen, Dexter has trouble doing this.

He not only is able to come close live he can nail it live, so this argument is bogues, and dismessed completly.


And, the whole point we've been making, is that Dexter is off key. I hate to be a jerk, but seriously: can you even read? Because every post has essentially been about that, and now you're doing a 180 and saying that he should be on key.

I'm saying he is on key sometimes, and he's off other times, and I'm saying it's no big deal, everyone has good days and bad days, this isn't the opera, it's a punk rock show, if you want vocal perfectionism go see justin timberland...

I was gonna write the same thing for iramlammmas but I figured this one says it perferctly too...

ArtificialLife
12-23-2006, 10:36 PM
Dude it's half a note.. that's jack shit.

Not jack shit. Tuning down a half step makes a HUGE difference when it comes to being able to hit notes.

To really get a good idea of it, try singing along (loudly as if you were performing) to The Kid's Aren't Alright, Americana style. Then find a live recording where they are tuned down a half step and sing along. It's a HELLVA lot easier.

Oxygene
12-24-2006, 03:37 AM
Not jack shit. Tuning down a half step makes a HUGE difference when it comes to being able to hit notes.

To really get a good idea of it, try singing along (loudly as if you were performing) to The Kid's Aren't Alright, Americana style. Then find a live recording where they are tuned down a half step and sing along. It's a HELLVA lot easier.

I've done it live for an audience (many many many times).. and we tried tuning half a step down during rehearsals, didn't make much of a difference.. I know what I'm talking about. It can help, but it's not like blasphemy. It might be different for others tho... I haven't really discussed this many other vocalists. Maybe it makes it alot easier for you.. for me it's no big difference, then again, my highest note is pretty fucking low, since my range is very VERY deep (unfourtunatly), so my voice isn't really good for offspring songs, I have to do them atleast one sometimes two octaves lower. The only thing I can sing in the same range is like the begining of head around you, and stuff like that.

ArtificialLife
12-24-2006, 11:48 PM
I've done it live for an audience (many many many times).. and we tried tuning half a step down during rehearsals, didn't make much of a difference.. I know what I'm talking about. It can help, but it's not like blasphemy. It might be different for others tho... I haven't really discussed this many other vocalists. Maybe it makes it alot easier for you.. for me it's no big difference, then again, my highest note is pretty fucking low, since my range is very VERY deep (unfourtunatly), so my voice isn't really good for offspring songs, I have to do them atleast one sometimes two octaves lower. The only thing I can sing in the same range is like the begining of head around you, and stuff like that.


That's interesting, with a voice like that maybe you should cover some Social D songs, no Offspring! I've been in a band for almost 15 years now, and my range maxes out at Dexter's live range.

I cannot hit most of the notes in standard tuning (as on record), but can sing them rather flawlessly when tuned down a half step (like The Offspring in concert). It really does make a huge difference to me. But as you said, perhaps it varies per vocalist.

WebDudette
12-25-2006, 12:02 AM
Agenda Suicide?

Oxygene
12-25-2006, 04:37 AM
That's interesting, with a voice like that maybe you should cover some Social D songs, no Offspring! I've been in a band for almost 15 years now, and my range maxes out at Dexter's live range.

I cannot hit most of the notes in standard tuning (as on record), but can sing them rather flawlessly when tuned down a half step (like The Offspring in concert). It really does make a huge difference to me. But as you said, perhaps it varies per vocalist.

Actually people always said I sound like Jello Biafra or Jack Grisham... but we never wanted to cover their songs...

Little_Miss_1565
12-25-2006, 08:46 AM
Agenda Suicide?

Like a cast shadow.

Best Christmas present ever--someone *reading my mind*!