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Camilamazed
12-17-2006, 09:15 PM
1) Does salesmen mean liars?

2) Does "stare into the sun mean" hypnotized? I thought of that because of the following line(I stood and watch them....)

3) Is "bag of tricks" a magic set or is there a different meaning for that on the song?

4) Is this song about government vs people?


"You don‘t want to change the world
Like you say
You‘re in it for yourself
No one else"
You‘re ready
Saving yourself
You‘re gonna change the world
You‘re ready
Saving yourself
You‘re gonna change the world"

Are they talking about the same subject here? I mean "you" referring to a single person or group of people?

:)

Venom Symbiote
12-17-2006, 10:14 PM
Salesmen means salesmen. Suits. People so focused on the bottom line they forget to live, ruining themselves in the process.

"Stare into the sun" means "stare into the sun". Self-destruction.

Bag of tricks. Like a...secret weapon or some such. A trick up your sleeve. A "bag of tricks", yeah, like a magician or whatever else.

Is it about Government? Possibly. It's one of those vague songs that you can take it as you will. It's theorized he wrote it about Brett and the showdown with Nitro though. That's more than likely the intended reading, but, like most of Ixnay, it's vague enough to make your own conclusions.

adombomb222
12-18-2006, 07:50 PM
Yet again, we have another meanings thread, no that I it bad in any way. Change The World, an excellent choice.

I believe salesman is actually referring to a salesperson, or a big corporation.

As in the song Staring At The Sun, I believe this line has the same romanticized effect, like Staring At The Sun, this line is, to me, understood at look at lust, pride, money – things we cannot not have. And that it is basically destroying us. He watches them as they destroy them selves, with the understanding that most people believe that salesmen are evil and out for them selves, and therefore their actions are, intern destroying everything they have worked for.

This line goes back to the salesmen thing, salesmen are clever when they sale things, or promote something, their “bag of tricks” is the idea that they have power over use.

I don’t believe that this song has to do with government, more paying it to the man.

You, is a complex word, as used in this song I believe it has to do with a group of people.

Little_Miss_1565
12-18-2006, 08:16 PM
1) Does salesmen mean liars?

In a way yes, and in a way no. Venom is right in that salespeople get so focused on the money coming in that they forget what makes a good and decent life. Salesmen also try to sell people on just about anything in favor of making a quick dollar. There's an idiom that goes "he/she is so slick he/she could sell ice to the Eskimos," meaning that someone can trick anyone into buying something that they absolutely do not need. Thievery, really.


2) Does "stare into the sun mean" hypnotized? I thought of that because of the following line(I stood and watch them....)

Think forward a bit to "Staring at the Sun", too. Was it Galileo who went blind looking at the sun through a telescope? It's an image of doing something with the intent of learning or doing something for the greater good but really does nothing but hurt you.


3) Is "bag of tricks" a magic set or is there a different meaning for that on the song?

It's a figure of speech based on a magic set. Like a sarcastic, "yeah, let's see you pull a rabbit out of your hat now," meaning no one believes the illusion anymore.


4) Is this song about government vs people?

"You don‘t want to change the world
Like you say
You‘re in it for yourself
No one else"
You‘re ready
Saving yourself
You‘re gonna change the world
You‘re ready
Saving yourself
You‘re gonna change the world"

Are they talking about the same subject here? I mean "you" referring to a single person or group of people?

:)

Only Dexter could really say for sure. I guess it could be about that, but more generally it seems to me like it's about witnessing a conflict for power between two people or entities.

Llamas
12-19-2006, 12:29 AM
Since I think that Little Miss has done the best job of explaining it so far, I'm just going to make comments on her post.


In a way yes, and in a way no. Venom is right in that salespeople get so focused on the money coming in that they forget what makes a good and decent life. Salesmen also try to sell people on just about anything in favor of making a quick dollar. There's an idiom that goes "he/she is so slick he/she could sell ice to the Eskimos," meaning that someone can trick anyone into buying something that they absolutely do not need. Thievery, really.
I've never heard that eskimo line before, but I like it. I've probably heard a variation on it somewhere along the line, I'm sure. Anyway. When I hear the first line of this song, I picture a bunch of car salesmen outside, staring at the sun while they wait for customers to come into the lot to make their first sale of the day. I think this description of what Dexter means by "salesmen" is accurate, as they're all competing with eachother and with their customers to make the best sale. They don't care about other people, but only themselves and how much money they can make.



Think forward a bit to "Staring at the Sun", too. Was it Galileo who went blind looking at the sun through a telescope? It's an image of doing something with the intent of learning or doing something for the greater good but really does nothing but hurt you.
I wouldn't have expected you to know this, but that idea that Galileo went blind by looking at the sun through his telescope is a very false myth. He actually went blind much much later in life (like... 25 years after his research was completed) from cataracts and glaucoma. I won't get into detail on him, though, because it doesn't matter. Regardless, the idea still stands. I never thought of that line in a way meaning "doing something for the greater good but hurting yourself". However, I don't think Dexter is saying that these salesmen are trying to do something for other people. I think that he believes that they claim and tell other people that they want to "save the world" - that they have good intentions - but instead, they just want to make their sale, no matter what. No matter who they hurt.



It's a figure of speech based on a magic set. Like a sarcastic, "yeah, let's see you pull a rabbit out of your hat now," meaning no one believes the illusion anymore.
This is true, but I also think of it as poker. A trick is a poker term, and if you have a bag of tricks, it's a way of saying that you're cheating. You have a bunch of tricks that you're pulling out to win the game, even though you're hurting others by cheating.




Only Dexter could really say for sure. I guess it could be about that, but more generally it seems to me like it's about witnessing a conflict for power between two people or entities.
I tend to think it's just commentary on people who are and think like salesmen. People who pretend they care about others, but really just want to further themselves in their lives. However, very true that only Dexter could answer this.

I often wonder (I know we can never know unless Dexter told us) if songs like this - which seem very subjective and more just commentary on a general idea - were written by Dexter about a conflict he had with an individual or group. I mean, it's written as though there wasn't, but I just wonder if, maybe Dexter is better at writing social commentary, and writes even personal songs like that. I know this has nothing to do with the song meaning, but it's just a thought. :)

Camilamazed
12-19-2006, 07:22 PM
Thank you all. Specially Venom that has finally done something without being sarcastic or something.. You really made my day Venom. :)

Yeah, I think I'm able now to put the song into other words. Although in Portuguese "Salesmen" will sound a little bit strange. But I'll use your explanation anyway.

I want to let you know that I always tell people that I translate the songs with your help. I don't take the credits myself.

=]

Little_Miss_1565
12-19-2006, 07:38 PM
Although in Portuguese "Salesmen" will sound a little bit strange.

In Spanish, I think it's "vendedor." Does that help?

Venom Symbiote
12-19-2006, 07:40 PM
Thank you all. Specially Venom that has finally done something without being sarcastic or something.. You really made my day Venom. :)

Awww. How sweeeeet. Stop making these threads now.

( :D )

Camilamazed
12-19-2006, 07:48 PM
In Spanish, I think it's "vendedor." Does that help?

Yeah, that's the word. But in the translation of the whole part it'll sound weird. I'll try anyway.


Awww. How sweeeeet. Stop making these threads now.

( :D )


What about helping me whenever I have problems with the words?

:D

Venom Symbiote
12-19-2006, 07:50 PM
I don't wanna.

Tell you what: if you teach me how to speak Micronesian, then you have yourself a deal, Missy.

Camilamazed
12-19-2006, 07:52 PM
I don't wanna.

Tell you what: if you teach me how to speak Micronesian, then you have yourself a deal, Missy.

Deal!

:cool:

adombomb222
12-19-2006, 08:02 PM
So you're not analyzing the songs, just finding different words to translate them?

Venom Symbiote
12-19-2006, 08:09 PM
She wants to clarify the meanings of the songs for all of the non-English speaking folks who happen to like the band.

Damn foreigners! :p Dexter's gotta stop wooing them all with the "whoas".

Little_Miss_1565
12-19-2006, 08:11 PM
So you're not analyzing the songs, just finding different words to translate them?

Yes. Both she and I have said this multiple times. She's translating them.

Camilamazed
12-20-2006, 05:42 AM
Yeah. I understand the general meaning of most of the songs. I'm translating them into Portuguese and there are several expressions in English (Also Phrasal Verbs) that simply don't exist in Portuguese. And As soon as I finish translating them into Portuguese, I'm going to try to translate them into Spanish.

:)