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Zeall
01-16-2007, 05:09 AM
I just noticed that Sunny lives in New York, i bet that it's awsome to live there. I went on a college trip to NY during february a few years back and it was freezing, but i still didn't mind because i was enjoying the best holiday of my life there, so much to do in so little time

has anyone else been to NY? what's it like actually living there?

i definitely recommend going here for your next Holiday/Vacation

Nina
01-16-2007, 05:11 AM
I've never been there, but what I like about New York City is that people use public transportation a lot more than in other parts of the US (that's at least what I've been told), and that people actually...WALK. heh.

Zeall
01-16-2007, 05:13 AM
yeah, the subways are packed and it looked really cool, and at night time, the roads were a sea of yellow!

Tizzalicious
01-16-2007, 05:16 AM
I really wanna go there. Looks like my next trip to the US (or well, first, the 2 airports I've been to don't really count as visiting the US) will probably be the westcoast though :(

Bazza
01-16-2007, 05:17 AM
I've never been there, but what I like about New York City is that people use public transportation a lot more than in other parts of the US (that's at least what I've been told), and that people actually...WALK. heh.

That's a bit like London really, congestion charging makes it practically impossible to drive.

On the topic of New York I've never been (I've been passed the New York in England, a little village in the middle of nowhere), but I'd like to go. I can't even imagine what it's be like to be surrounded by skyscrapers. From what people have told me it is really impressive.

Sunny
01-16-2007, 05:20 AM
it's all fun and games until you go apartment hunting. or get on a bus/have to drive somewhere.

nah, it's awesome. i just wish the weather and the real estate market were slightly less insane.

the_GoDdEsS
01-16-2007, 05:20 AM
Now I have Frank Sinatra playing in my head.

Little_Miss_1565
01-16-2007, 07:01 AM
New York is a fucking bitch to live in. It's dangerous and expensive as fuck. If you're getting paid, then yeah it works. Otherwise, it's really hard to make it work. If you really want to live here, lose all romantic attachment NOW. You'll find a way to fall in love with the city for real on its own terms later.

JohnnyNemesis
01-16-2007, 08:25 AM
As far as I know, I'm the only one here born and raised in NY. Eat it, motherfuckers. PRNK N TRNSPLNTD PPLZ!!!

Prerequisite for living here: loss of soul, so that the area formerly occupied by your soul can be taken over by the city.

Little_Miss_1565
01-16-2007, 08:55 AM
Prerequisite for living here: loss of soul, so that the area formerly occupied by your soul can be taken over by the city.

And mad, mad amounts of cash.

Zeall
01-16-2007, 09:09 AM
And mad, mad amounts of cash.

*raises hand*
oo, oo, oo, i'm saving my wages up but i'm unsure what for yet, this can go on the list for distant future plans

Amiralanal
01-16-2007, 09:17 AM
ive been there. it was nice. I went to Rupert Jees hello deli(famous from the late show with david letetrman). I bought a t-shirt and got a photo taken with me and rupert.

0r4ng3
01-16-2007, 11:27 AM
I have never been to New York. Ever.

F@ BANKZ
01-16-2007, 12:07 PM
It's the place i want to go most in the word, well second to Tokyo. It looks kind of classy in a modern way. We were actually booked to go just after 9/11 but curcumstancs changed that.

Grabbal
01-16-2007, 12:09 PM
I'm thinking about going to school there after i'm done with college..

calichix
01-16-2007, 02:40 PM
NYC is my favorite city on the face of the erf. except they take telling it like it is to the extreme, which is why I could never live there. I enjoy people saying, "Have a nice day!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :) :D :p " and not really meaning it more than I enjoy a forthright "fuck off." I would be terrified of losing my bubbles living there. annnnd I'd get like every disease on the planet cause that place is crawling with attractiveness and I'd do every construction worker that hollered at me.

Jakebert
01-16-2007, 03:09 PM
I've only been there once, and while I thought it was a cool place to visit, I don't think I could live there.

Llamas
01-16-2007, 03:17 PM
I've never been there, but what I like about New York City is that people use public transportation a lot more than in other parts of the US (that's at least what I've been told), and that people actually...WALK. heh.

The reason for all the public transportation is because they have to. Really, they drive as much as anywhere else in the US... but only so many cars can fit on the streets. Their stoplights and intersections are always jammed up with people laying on their horns, and then people who don't have cars walk or take public transportation because that's their only option. Plus, since they have no nature besides central park, and it's almost all covered in concrete, everything's really close together so you CAN walk.

Personally, I'd rather have to pollute the environment a little with a car than to have all the nature covered up. :( Sorry, I have this weird hate for NYC, and it's much more involved than this, lol. I've been to Chicago, and that was as big a city as I'd ever want to live even close to. Minneapolis is the biggest city I could ever live in.

Prox
01-16-2007, 03:25 PM
I was there when the city had that huge black out, it was terrible.

Lodat225
01-16-2007, 03:42 PM
As far as I know, I'm the only one here born and raised in NY. Eat it, motherfuckers. PRNK N TRNSPLNTD PPLZ!!!

Prerequisite for living here: loss of soul, so that the area formerly occupied by your soul can be taken over by the city.

The Bronx (Or was it Queens?)? It's alright.

I've been there... well, New York, New York as in Manhattan. The Big Apple. That's it. It was pretty cool but i doubt that is the best place to go to in New York. I wish i lived there.
__________________

Mota Boy
01-16-2007, 03:58 PM
New York is an awesome city, and a great backdrop for adventure. There are few better locations that are that primed for storytelling, though it's easier to be swept along by the city than to make it your own.

Bazza
01-16-2007, 04:10 PM
I was there when the city had that huge black out, it was terrible.

If you ever go to the cinema regualry and see the Orange mobile advert you'll get really really sick of hearing about that blackout. "Sometimes it takes us to switch off to switch on" wtf, god I hate that ad.

JohnnyNemesis
01-16-2007, 04:14 PM
The reason for all the public transportation is because they have to. Really, they drive as much as anywhere else in the US... but only so many cars can fit on the streets. Their stoplights and intersections are always jammed up with people laying on their horns, and then people who don't have cars walk or take public transportation because that's their only option. Plus, since they have no nature besides central park, and it's almost all covered in concrete, everything's really close together so you CAN walk.

That's just Manhattan, and some of them there things are general...not all of NYC. The main part of it, sure, but that's quite different from the rest.

Mota Boy
01-16-2007, 04:22 PM
Yeah, one of my best friends is from Long Island (though I'm pretty sure both parties fervently insist that isn't New York) and she hops in her car to, I shit you not, drive a block from our apartment.


Oh man, I was in New York when the monster snowstorm hit and if that wasn't magic, I don't know what is.

Llamas
01-16-2007, 05:06 PM
That's just Manhattan, and some of them there things are general...not all of NYC. The main part of it, sure, but that's quite different from the rest.

Gotcha. I assumed as much, since NYC is a huge city... is Manhattan the equivalent of a downtown?

Rag Doll
01-16-2007, 09:16 PM
new york is ok. i was born and raised 20 minutes away in new jersey, so i've been to nyc many many times. i enjoy being able to go home from it when i have tired of it. and it is indeed expensive as fuck. i might be moving there in a few years, which freaks me out. eeeek expensive.

JohnnyNemesis
01-16-2007, 10:07 PM
Gotcha. I assumed as much, since NYC is a huge city... is Manhattan the equivalent of a downtown?

Not quite, but sortakindayes. Each borough is pretty big in itself, so we each (Bronx, Queens, Brooklyn) have our own locations that would be similar to what would be considered a "downtown" elsewhere. But Manhattan itself has its own uptown and downtown...and since there's so much going on in Manhattan, there's a known and commonly referenced location for pretty much everywhere (upper west side, lower east side, etc.)

Nina
01-17-2007, 05:20 AM
I guess my point didnt come across. I know why not everyone uses their car in NYC, but I like the fact that people got over it, and use public transportation, because I hate the idea of everyone having their own car, driving to their workplace, then driving back home....I just think the human interaction is missing in such cities. Germany (and other European countries) is (are) not like that at all.

Bazza
01-17-2007, 05:24 AM
All the commuters I've seen in London are miserable, be it going to or from work. Going on the London Underground everyone is miserable, and if you are having a jokey conversation with a friend people will stare and give you dirty looks. I don't see any human interaction, but then I guess I don't have to endure the crappy travel conditions that they do everyday.

Nina
01-17-2007, 05:48 AM
Germany is different. I've never been to Berlin but I've been to many other big cities and since buses are very commonly used it Germany and since I use them, I can assure you that people arent "unfriendly" all the time. I've used the bus all my life; I just like that all kinds of people in Germany use the bus. It's not for the "poor" at all. It's a very, very common thing. People dont look....miserable. :/
I dont use trains as often, but I also use those...and it's the same.

I basically really dislike that everyone in north America needs to have a car. I understand the reasoning behind it, but I dont like it.

Little_Miss_1565
01-17-2007, 05:51 AM
I guess my point didnt come across. I know why not everyone uses their car in NYC, but I like the fact that people got over it, and use public transportation, because I hate the idea of everyone having their own car, driving to their workplace, then driving back home....I just think the human interaction is missing in such cities. Germany (and other European countries) is (are) not like that at all.

There is way, way too much human interaction in NYC. There was a woman last night on the train who I think was trying to panhandle but when she got to the car I was in she just started screaming, half in Spanish, half in English, about how the car was empty. Then she got out at my stop and sat on the bench and continued berating everyone on the train for not being populated enough. Didn't ask for money.

North America in most instances is really spread out and without a good public transit infrastructure. I drove everywhere in Brooklyn until my car was stolen just because it's tough to get around within Brooklyn on public transportation.

Sunny
01-17-2007, 06:00 AM
shit... that really blows about your car. :(


and yeah, it's goddamn hard to get around brooklyn without one. we no longer have a car... and we've been looking at some sweet lofts.. but fuck, they're nowhere near any subways. unless the "G" train counts.. which it doesn't really. :/

Rag Doll
01-17-2007, 08:36 AM
I drove everywhere in Brooklyn until my car was stolen just because it's tough to get around within Brooklyn on public transportation.

holyshit, your car got stolen? =(

Little_Miss_1565
01-17-2007, 11:11 AM
Yup. Not long after the meetup. :(

Sin Studly
01-17-2007, 11:30 AM
I personally refuse to live in any city that has more than 1.5 million people.

Llamas
01-17-2007, 12:18 PM
That sucks, Sarah. :( Like really really sucks.

I dunno, Nina. I mean, it's cool that you're into the bus/public transportation thing... but I'm sure Americans would get used to it anywhere if we had to do it. Perosonally, I don't always prefer to be surrounded by people. And bussing? Well, most of the time it's okay... but like Sarah was saying, sometimes it's beyond scary. It depends on what bus you take, but I've seen men break into nasty fights on busses before right in front of me on my way home. I've become accustomed to bussing/biking/walking, but I absolutely adore driving. I really miss my car a lot, because there's just something serene about it... but that's off topic. Honestly, though, sometimes the bus or walking is just not right for me because it's not always good for me to be interacting that much. Plus, I really love the idea of NOT living in the city. I want to live outside of the city someday, where you have to travel a good 20 minutes to get to the city. I love nature and I want a big yard so I can garden... and getting a property like that in the city is just ridiculously expensive.

Really, it's all personal opinion. Public transportation is great, and I'm a big advocate of it... but I couldn't spend the rest of my life living in an area where I never drove at all.

wheelchairman
01-17-2007, 12:53 PM
I don't think Nina was criticising Americans. We have no need for public transport in the same way Europeans do. We're a far more spread out population, with enough resources that even teenagers can afford cars.

Public transport in the states, and it's quality, depends heavily on the location.

Also, Europeans have cars....

Llamas
01-17-2007, 12:54 PM
I know she wasn't criticizing anyone. I didn't mean to sound like I thought she was.

And I know Europeans have cars. :P They're just less common there.

wheelchairman
01-17-2007, 01:02 PM
No..they aren't less common. The reason why cars are so restricted is not because Europeans care about air pollution. (oh some fags do). But mostly there is a lack of space for everything. Gas stations, storage, parking spots. At least in the cities. Everyone in every countryside pretty much has a car.

So yeah Europe = too many cars. America doesn't have such space restrictions so you might actually find that European streets feel much more crowded (actually you probably will. I did.)

Llamas
01-17-2007, 01:05 PM
Oh interesting. When I said common, I meant that the proportion of people with cars in Europe is smaller than in the US. Here, everyone gets their license, and kids expect to get a car when they're 16. It doesn't seem like that's the case in Europe. Obviously I haven't been there yet, but that's my impression.

Tizzalicious
01-17-2007, 01:09 PM
I think it's just less common here to get a car when you are young, and just turned 18 (or whichever age you have to be in the particular country), because it's very expensive to take lessons. Eventually most people do get their license though.

Nina
01-17-2007, 01:41 PM
Oh interesting. When I said common, I meant that the proportion of people with cars in Europe is smaller than in the US. Here, everyone gets their license, and kids expect to get a car when they're 16. It doesn't seem like that's the case in Europe. Obviously I haven't been there yet, but that's my impression.

Hm, I dont really think so. If I had to guess I'd say that 95% of people my age who I know got their license right after or shortly before they turned 18, which is the same in America (just different age). I'm an exception, and that's because I dont have the 2000€ for a license.

Llamas
01-17-2007, 02:31 PM
Just seems weird to me that everyone is able to afford that much money for a license right away... I dunno, I guess I can't speak until I actually see it for myself. I've just been told by a lot of people from Europe who came here that it's less common to have a car because there are so few places to park, plus they're just not as necessary there. But I'm speaking from what I've been told, not from what I've seen. So I'll just stop for now. :)

the_GoDdEsS
01-17-2007, 02:39 PM
I dont have the 2000 for a license.

For the love of God! We get ours for 260 - 440 and that's actually expensive (especially if you're a student) for us now because they are EU recognised licences. It used to be cheaper. 2000 is hell, even if German standards are different. Well, your wages are seven or up to ten times higher but for a student it's a different story.

the_GoDdEsS
01-17-2007, 02:40 PM
Just seems weird to me that everyone is able to afford that much money for a license right away...

Parents? Personally I don't know anyone who done theirs at the age of 18 from their own pocket.

Llamas
01-17-2007, 02:47 PM
Parents? Personally I don't know anyone who done theirs at the age of 18 from their own pocket.

Oh, I figured parents. But I mean, getting braces is around the same cost as that. A lot of kids get them, but not nearly all. I know a lot of people who couldn't afford them and went without... seems likely to me that a lot of people wouldn't get licenses if it wasn't absolutely necessary, because of the cost.

Here, it costs a few hundred dollars to take the driver's ed class. I don't know the total cost, but I think it's around $300 total. Not too bad, but I *still* know people who didn't want to pay that and still don't have their licenses. Plus in the US it seems more necessary to get a license. I dunno. It's just weird.

Tizzalicious
01-17-2007, 02:54 PM
In Holland the exam alone is about 200 euro (about $260 ) and then you need lessons, and most likely you need to take the exam more than once, because they seem to fail everyone.

And for braces we have dental insurance.

Llamas
01-17-2007, 02:58 PM
In Holland the exam alone is about 200 euro (about $260 ) and then you need lessons, and most likely you need to take the exam more than once, because they seem to fail everyone.
That's interesting. I've always thought the road test here was too easy and they pretty much pass everyone. I consider myself a decent driver now (though I tend to be really really cautious), but when I got my license, I really think I shouldn't have passed. I was a very bad driver, and it just scares me how easy it is to get a license. However, failing everyone is the flip side and can be really annoying. Someone needs to design a *good* road test.


And for braces we have dental insurance.
Yeah, I don't really know how that works here. I don't know if dental insurance covers braces here, and if it does, it doesn't always. My parents paid it out of pocket, which I can't believe they did (though I really needed it). I'm just saying, that a lot of people here go without braces because of the cost, so it's just hard for me to believe that nearly everyone would get a license when they're that expensive, ya know?

Lodat225
01-17-2007, 02:59 PM
I think it's just less common here to get a car when you are young, and just turned 18 (or whichever age you have to be in the particular country), because it's very expensive to take lessons. Eventually most people do get their license though.

Huh? Expensive for a license? Are you crazzzzzzzzzzy?

Llamas
01-17-2007, 03:01 PM
Huh? Expensive for a license? Are you crazzzzzzzzzzy?

Oh. My. God. Please shut up.

Lodat225
01-17-2007, 03:09 PM
Hey. Licenses don't cost anything here, do they? If they do, aren't they just like 200?

Edit: She was talking about lessons. Oooh!

Llamas
01-17-2007, 03:11 PM
You don't just like, show up and get the license. You have to take the class/lessons, and then take the test. That costs money. Also, SHE DOESN'T LIVE IN THE UNITED STATES. Things are different in various countries.

Lodat225
01-17-2007, 03:23 PM
Dude, i know how getting a license is. And no, it's not much.

Also, yeah, i know.

SkunkIt
01-17-2007, 03:24 PM
I keep suggesting to my family we go to New York or Europe for a vacation, but they wanna go to Australia. Ha ha.

Tickets are so expensive. :(

Llamas
01-17-2007, 03:26 PM
Dude, i know how getting a license is. And no, it's not much.

Also, yeah, i know.

If you know she lives in a different country, don't realize that the costs and processes are probably DIFFERENT than they are here, and it doesn't make sense to call her crazy when you don't know how it is there?

Lodat225
01-17-2007, 03:28 PM
Just chill. You shouldn't have replied from the beginning. You're right. Ok, i was wrong.

Llamas
01-17-2007, 03:35 PM
lol, you are so ridiculous.

the_GoDdEsS
01-17-2007, 03:41 PM
I can't believe it's so hard to see that lodat is feeding on the attention and everyone getting all riled up over little things he says.

Llamas
01-17-2007, 03:44 PM
I've just become immune to it and gotten to the point where I know what he's doing but I just don't care anymore, honestly.

the_GoDdEsS
01-17-2007, 03:46 PM
Yeah, is better to just skip it though unless you want pages of useless things to wade through when you're trying to read topics.

Llamas
01-17-2007, 03:49 PM
True.

Anyway, here's a question. So, I'm gonna be in Austria in a few weeks. I have a Wisconsin driver's license... if I decided I wanted to stay in Austria for a long while, and wanted to buy a cheap car, how would the driver's license thing work? I can't just use my Wisconsin license, can I? Do I have to take the driver's test and all that? I dunno if anyone would know this... maybe Per would?

Dr. Shadow
01-17-2007, 03:54 PM
If you are planning to live there a long while, then yes, you have to renew your license.

the_GoDdEsS
01-17-2007, 03:54 PM
All I know is that all EU members have the same licence and can drive around. For you this (http://www.austria.info/xxl/_site/us/_area/417406/_subArea/417457/_subArea2/417770/index.html) might be relevant.

Llamas
01-17-2007, 03:57 PM
If you are planning to live there a long while, then yes, you have to renew your license.

Well... what do you mean by "renew"?

Thanks for the link, Sim. I'll have to check that out. It probably won't be super important until I decide if I'm staying there for some time, but I figure it's good to gather information sooner than later.

Bazza
01-17-2007, 04:41 PM
True.

Anyway, here's a question. So, I'm gonna be in Austria in a few weeks. I have a Wisconsin driver's license... if I decided I wanted to stay in Austria for a long while, and wanted to buy a cheap car

How cheap? Because I'd seriously make sure it's a half decent car. I not too sure about on the continent, but here in the UK cheap cars almost certainly mean expensive repair bills. Also I'd look into tax/MOT(legally required car checks) rulings (required in the UK and most likely on in Europe, though I'm not 100%). And then you have insurance to look into as well.

HornyPope
01-17-2007, 09:38 PM
I think the reason no one drives is because of the lack of parking, not the actual congestions. Going in congestions is still bearable, we all have to do it in rush hours sometimes, but it's the inability to just leave your car because every parking spot is fucking taken. Well unless you pay 20$ for private, or whatever is the price in New York.

Hey Mota Boy, how's your experience with Chinese traffic? Shanghai was the prominent example I think, or somewhere in that urban-bed, of horrendous traffic in China. Worst in the world?

T-6005
01-17-2007, 09:44 PM
Malaysia has the worst traffic jams I've ever experienced. It's so long and happens so often that it's kind of a cultural experience when you go there.

Tizzalicious
01-18-2007, 02:11 AM
True.

Anyway, here's a question. So, I'm gonna be in Austria in a few weeks. I have a Wisconsin driver's license... if I decided I wanted to stay in Austria for a long while, and wanted to buy a cheap car, how would the driver's license thing work? I can't just use my Wisconsin license, can I? Do I have to take the driver's test and all that? I dunno if anyone would know this... maybe Per would?

We actually just discussed this with Per's mom the other day, so I'll answer while Per is still asleep.

You need to have a certain amount of hours, I don't know how many though, but it shouldn't be too hard to research. You wouldn't need lessons though, I think, if yours isn't valid you could probably just take a test. And hopefully pass :P

Llamas
01-18-2007, 02:19 AM
But... driving on the LEFT SIDE OF THE ROAD?? I mean, wtf??! I think I'd need to take lessons just for that! :p

But thanks for the info. :)

the_GoDdEsS
01-18-2007, 02:28 AM
Left? In Austria? Huh?

Tizzalicious
01-18-2007, 02:29 AM
Eh. They only do that in the UK.

the_GoDdEsS
01-18-2007, 02:30 AM
And a few other countries :P

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Driving_on_the_left_or_right

Tizzalicious
01-18-2007, 02:32 AM
And a few other countries :P

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Driving_on_the_left_or_right


In Europe, I meant :P

the_GoDdEsS
01-18-2007, 02:33 AM
Whoops, yes.

I just <3 wiki maps.

Llamas
01-18-2007, 02:44 AM
Oh, weird. I probably knew that only the UK did that in Europe, too. My friend mentioned driving on the left to me tonight, though, and I'm so gullible. :p But Sim comes through with another useful link. ;) Weird that the right-driving is so randomy dispersed.

Tizzalicious
01-18-2007, 02:49 AM
I think the countries that drive on the left all used to belong to England, I'm not sure if it's all of them, but definitely a lot of them.

You might wanna do some more research on Austria//Europe in general, because it seems to me that you have a whole lot of ideas about it that aren't exactly true.

the_GoDdEsS
01-18-2007, 02:50 AM
Read up the history in that link if you're interested. It has some nice explanations. My country only started driving on the right in the 30s after us being a Nazi puppet state.

And agreed with what Tizz said, research if you still have time so you don't end up shocked.

Nina
01-18-2007, 02:53 AM
You might wanna do some more research on Austria//Europe in general, because it seems to me that you have a whole lot of ideas about it that aren't exactly true.

I just wanted to say the same :[

About the driver's license again, the test itself costs a few hundred euro already, and in Germany you HAVE to take a specific amount of classes, and if you dont, you cant do the test. One class (45min?) costs 50 if you are lucky. You usually have two classes at a time...I guess you can figure out how much that costs if you consider that you need to take those (I dont know how many exactly, so I better not say a number). My boyfriend paid 1500, and that was almost three years ago.

Llamas
01-18-2007, 02:54 AM
Most of the things that I am wrong about aren't really important, though, and will be cleared up once I'm there. Plus I'm going to be living with other international students for six months, so we'll be able to discuss things as we learn them. I've only been studying German for a little over a year, and have only been interested in going abroad for like 9 months... so while I decently understand in theory how to deal with other cultures and people from other cultures, I know that I don't know a lot of things about Austria or Europe. Really, though, things like which side of the street people drive on isn't important for me to know, especially before I get there (if I ever did get a car there, it would be after quite a while... like atleast a year).

edit: nina, if it's that kind of money for me to get a license in Austria, even when I already have an American license, I won't ever get one there. That is just not worth it.

Nina
01-18-2007, 02:56 AM
No no. I have no idea what you as a "tourist" can do to get a license. I was talking in general terms.

Bazza
01-18-2007, 02:59 AM
A quick cheat to get round spending loads of money:

Come to the UK for a week, have a bit of practice (if it is true about the left-hand side) take the test (if you already drive then you should have the skills already), get a European licence. There's no rules on how many lessons you need, so it wouldn't cost a huge amount, although it seems like a bit of a crazy way of doing it.

Llamas
01-18-2007, 02:59 AM
I know, I was just saying that if it's anywhere near that cost for a non-citizen who has an American license, it won't ever happen. If I can get by without a license, it's not worth the money.

Llamas
01-18-2007, 03:01 AM
Read up the history in that link if you're interested. It has some nice explanations. My country only started driving on the right in the 30s after us being a Nazi puppet state.

bty, did you notice the second map on that wiki article? There are countries that used to drive on the right and now drive on the left. Massive wtfs.

the_GoDdEsS
01-18-2007, 03:06 AM
We're just trying to make sure you don't end up surprised. Customs are different in many European countries. Austrians are for example big on politeness. In fact, I totally suggest you read the Wikitravel page for Austria. Wikitravel has super useful and comprehensive guides, tips and warnings.

the_GoDdEsS
01-18-2007, 03:06 AM
bty, did you notice the second map on that wiki article? There are countries that used to drive on the right and now drive on the left. Massive wtfs.

Yep, I've had a look at it too. Is fun finding out why or how it changed.

Llamas
01-18-2007, 03:12 AM
We're just trying to make sure you don't end up surprised. Customs are different in many European countries. Austrians are for example big on politeness. In fact, I totally suggest you read the Wikitravel page for Austria. Wikitravel has super useful and comprehensive guides, tips and warnings.

I actually have heard that. My friend, Adam, went to the city I'm going to for an entire year, and he told me a lot of things about how people act there (and scared me of the dialect!). I'll check the Wikitravel thing, too.

I know I'm going to be surprised about a lot, though, and I expect to go through culture shock. Like I said, I know how things will go in theory. I understand all the steps of culture euphoria, shock, acceptance, assimilation, etc, etc. Again, it's all theory. My goal was to understand what I'm going to feel and go through when I get there, so I have made myself very aware that things are going to be crazy and I won't understand a lot. I just know that theories and such will stick with me better than facts, which I will quickly forget.


Yep, I've had a look at it too. Is fun finding out why or how it changed.

It said why countries went from right to left?? I missed that... I saw why some countries switched, but not those weird outliers.

the_GoDdEsS
01-18-2007, 03:17 AM
Haha, you're right. Knowing something in theory is completely different than when you are confronted with reality. But it sure as hell is going to be exciting and full of crazy at least at the beginning.

As for the dialect, Austrians are pretty awful with dialects. But if you stay there for a longer time you'll get used to it fast. Especially if accents stick on you easily.

Bazza
01-18-2007, 03:20 AM
I was just wondering, how the hell do they switch the sides of the road when you go across the border into a different country? Is there some sort of crazy junction?

Llamas
01-18-2007, 03:22 AM
Haha, you're right. Knowing something in theory is completely different than when you are confronted with reality. But it sure as hell is going to be exciting and full of crazy at least at the beginning.
Honestly, that's what excites me the most. I've been to many parts of the US, and things differ, but in the long run, it's all pretty much the same. I'm really excited to go somewhere that's really different (though not as different as, say, South America or eastern Africa... because I know I wouldn't be prepared to deal with that kind of change). And part of the excitement is not knowing what to expect. I dunno, I'm weird. Haha.


As for the dialect, Austrians are pretty awful with dialects. But if you stay there for a longer time you'll get used to it fast. Especially if accents stick on you easily.

Oh, accent... bah, my professors always rip on me for my accent in German. and when I moved from Wisconsin to Minnesota, I never actually picked up the Minnesotan accent. :( I can identify accents, but I just can't speak with them. I guess that's good in that I pronounce things very flatly and by the book, but it's bad because I can't assimilate. My German accent sounds like I'm an American speaking German, haha. It's bad. I'm taking an immersion course when I get there, so I can try to get accustomed to their dialect and all that... but yeah, I've heard they're pretty insane about dialects.

the_GoDdEsS
01-18-2007, 03:29 AM
Hrm, then specialise on phonetics classes or specifically ask the professors whether you could attend those. Could help you a lot. My German was almost accentfree except I could not do one of their "r"s or was not sure about it until I stayed in Germany. There I immitated them pretty fast and since then been able to pass/be mistaken for a native speaker. Once you're there I'm sure your accent will improve. If not in classes, find friends and make them teach you and practise.

HornyPope
01-18-2007, 09:41 AM
Malaysia has the worst traffic jams I've ever experienced. It's so long and happens so often that it's kind of a cultural experience when you go there.

But isn't that mostly due to arhaic roads and circulating transport that shouldn't belong there? A friend told me the same about his experience in Mumbai iirc where elephants and goats and vehicules and bicycles share the same crappy roads. China stands out because it has the worst all-vehicule traffic. I think! Could have my perceptions wrong here...


As for the driving in Europe, more specifically Austria, I was considering driving myself and from what I could make out with the agent in his broken english (thank god he spoke any at all) during my trip in Vienna, I was allowed to drive with my Canadian licence if I had it for more than two years apperantly. I'm assuming the same applies to Americans. What you can't do is rent a car, however, until you're 25, unless you find an agency that does, which I wasn't able personally (then again I only called few random companies in a phone book). I can also personally tell you, Llama, that buying a "cheap used car" probably won't be as easy as in America. Not the same market. They have less cheap cars rotating hands, people are less inclined to buy a car and sell it a few months later. Euros tend to hold on to cars longer. Not saying you can't get lucky...

T-6005
01-18-2007, 09:53 AM
But isn't that mostly due to arhaic roads and circulating transport that shouldn't belong there? A friend told me the same about his experience in Mumbai iirc where elephants and goats and vehicules and bicycles share the same crappy roads. China stands out because it has the worst all-vehicule traffic. I think! Could have my perceptions wrong here...
China has horrible inner-city traffic.

EDIT - I can only speak from going to Hong Kong and Beijing. I have no idea about the traffic anywhere else on the mainland.

But you are wrong about Malaysia - no goats or elephants on their roads, just cars, and the roads aren't inherently worse than any other roads. There's just a way that they manage to all get themselves into traffic jams at pretty much any time of day.

HornyPope
01-18-2007, 09:59 AM
Well I didn't mean these two animals specifically, but point taken. I was assuming Malaysia has a much worse infrastructure than you say it was. Wow it has gone a long way since the WW2 period.