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wheelchairman
01-23-2007, 04:42 PM
Now personally, I think the Turkish debate is rather stupid. Or so incredibly fucking played out that it's just fucking tiresome.

And yet one of the rare pieces of news that surprised me was about Dink (lol funny name.)

For those of you who don't know, Dink was the prominent journalist about Armenians, him being an ethnic Armenian living in Turkey. As we have seen on the bbs, Turks don't exactly love Armenians to say the least.

Anyways this very famous journalist, was shot and killed by a 17 year old Turk. Who had heard an internet rumor about this journalist. A comment having to do with regretting having Turkish blood because it was like dirt-water or something.

I just can't fathom the stupidity behind this action. I mean fuck, 17 year olds are stupid sometimes. And I just wanted to see one of our idiot Turkish members try and defend this.

Wolfbutter
01-23-2007, 05:27 PM
*waits for Sin Studly*

T-6005
01-23-2007, 05:49 PM
*waits for Sin Studly*
How many times have I seen this? It's pathetic.

XYlophonetreeZ
01-23-2007, 07:06 PM
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c119/XYlophonetreeZ/mrdink.jpg

Sin Studly
01-23-2007, 07:29 PM
Now personally, I think the Turkish debate...

What debate? Pope Urban II ; the earthly ombudsman of God the fucking Almighty said it was the duty of all persons to excise the Turkish cancer with sword and fire, to exterminate them without remorse, to the last man, woman and infant, to leave them as nothing more than a faint whisper of barely remembered history. To argue against the need to remove the Turk from existance is to argue against God Himself, who, as you may know, is omniescient, infallable, and has a penchant for turning the loved ones of people who doubt him into pillars of salt.

So the question is, do you really want to have Maartje turned into a pillar of salt before she's slung enough abortions to make it worth your while?

adombomb222
01-23-2007, 07:42 PM
Yea I was just about to post a thread about him, I just heard he was killed.


Last week saw another tragic turn in the fight for recognition of the 1915 Armenian Genocide as Hrant Dink a Turkish activist featured in the now playing SCREAMERS documentary was brutally murdered by a fellow Turk for his belief that Turkey and the rest of the world needs to recognize the past if there is to be any hope for a better future. Please follow the link below for an official statement from the director of SCREAMERS and dear friend of Hrant Dink, Carla Garapedian about this tragedy:

http://blog.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendID=124460353&blogID=221177047&MyToken=4391992e-0c44-4d39-8a68-7d7a4f97c148

HornyPope
01-23-2007, 09:38 PM
Ding ding ding ding!
Who's there?

zshabe
01-24-2007, 03:27 AM
Now personally, I think the Turkish debate is rather stupid. Or so incredibly fucking played out that it's just fucking tiresome.

And yet one of the rare pieces of news that surprised me was about Dink (lol funny name.)

For those of you who don't know, Dink was the prominent journalist about Armenians, him being an ethnic Armenian living in Turkey. As we have seen on the bbs, Turks don't exactly love Armenians to say the least.

Anyways this very famous journalist, was shot and killed by a 17 year old Turk. Who had heard an internet rumor about this journalist. A comment having to do with regretting having Turkish blood because it was like dirt-water or something.

I just can't fathom the stupidity behind this action. I mean fuck, 17 year olds are stupid sometimes. And I just wanted to see one of our idiot Turkish members try and defend this.

So we genocide armenians right ??? :) One 17 year old idiot killed Armenian rooted Turkish citizen and you pop up this stupid topic.

We are much more sorry than armenians. Thousands of Turks walked for him. Look at the link and tell how many of armenians saw that much people in a funeral ?? follow the link!!

http://www.milliyet.com.tr/2007/01/24/son/sondun02.asp

You should first try to give an answer for the following arguments

I do not believe armenians claims are true. I have reasons for that.

1. Armenians claim the genocide(!) took place in 1915 ??? What was happening in 1915 in Turkey ?? Firstly the country was at WW1 !! And How many of you know the Canakkale, the biggest war of WW1 ?? IT WAS IN 1915 ,250.000 Turks and 250.000 French + English + New Zealander had died!! And Canakkale was at the west coast of Turkey. Armenians claim genocide at the same time on the east side of Turkey!! How is it possible ? Do you understand the meaning of 250.000 Turkish citizen ?? The population of Turkey in 1934 was 10 million!!!! And in that war it self 250.000 of them died in 1915!!

2. Do you know how Greeks and Bulgarians got their freedom in 1800s ??? They naturally wait Ottomans getting weaker. They wait for the most weaker time and allied with English and French armies. And they provoked and killed many Turks, Turks killed many but finally they declared their independence with the help of English and French army. In order to get their freedom they have to kill many Turks, and they did. It is a rule and they did it, I understand it. So Armenians naturally tried to do the same thing. They allied with Russia. But in 1915 Turkish armies and Civilians stopped and sinked French and English navy. And they couldn't help Russia which had many problems inside. Armenians did'nt believe that Turks can stop the French And English alliance and attacked Turkish villages on the east of Turkey . (It was easier when the most of them was at the west coast in canakkale) But when the Turkish troops had a victory over English and French armies, Russia had a revolution and couldn't give the support that they promised to armenians. (Armenians helped russia in the mid 1800's against Ottomans which is proved by all historicians and Russia promised to pay back them in their indepence trial just like Greeks, Bulgarians and other balkan countries.) After that Armenians couldn't be successful without help and many of them died.

3. Armenians claim 1,5 million loss!!! :-) :-) Funniest thing!! They never reached 1,5 million in Turkey. Currently their total population is around 3 million. In 1915 Turkey's population was around 6 million!!!! 6 million and you re saying 1,5 million of them ,even more is armenian right ??? Hahaha!! Ridicolous!!! 1,5 million armenian, 2 million arab, 2 million balkanian, 2 million kurd and it is 7,5 million without Turks ??? Hahaha!! hohohohohooo, Please.....

4. Why do armenians refuse to open national archieves correspondingly?? Why do they refused it ?? Their Balls not enough!!

5. Why do they refused American and German historicans reports that are all saying "There is no Genocide ??"

6. Turks have the strongest era between 1400-1700!! If they have an intention to finish armenians, why don't they do it between these ages ?? You claim that, they did it in their weakest time in WW1 , in 1915 ??

7. Genocide can only commited by a country which has the power and authority. Ottomans existed between 1299-1918. And they claim Ottomans did it in 1915 while their lands surrounded by the alliance forces in WW1 and having their "To be or not to be" war ?? How does it sound to you ? Is it logical ? If you do not believe just look at your history books to see where were the Ottomans army in 1915?? How many of them died in that war in 1915 ?? Just have a look and talk after!!

Turks never had the intention of genocide , or asimilating any of them. They used to conquer the places, give that place's management to a people that they trust and collecting the tax . That was the way they manage the economy. While doing it they let minority free in their religion, language etc. That is why they remain alive for 600 years. If they made a pressure it was impossible.

Look at middle east today!! While those lands remain under the control of ottomans for almost 500 years, 3 big religions lived together without any war or problem.

Look at Turkish national teams today. Do you see any black man ? Any north african like Zidane , Thuram, etc. ?? Look at English and French national teams!! They occupied these places for 3-4 years , instead of 400-500 years, and they all asimilated, made them their slaves. We were on those lands not 3-4 years, but 400-500 years, Did you see any Zinedine Zidane, Thiery Henry, Thuram in our national teams?? Ottomans, Turks never had an asimilation or a slavery policy but most of the europeans did and you can easily see it if you look at their national teams!!

killer_queen
01-24-2007, 05:26 AM
What's worse is that comment about Turks isn't even real. I get tons of e-mails everyday which support hate for Armenians. But it's obvious that murder wasn't just about a 17 year old idiot getting angry and killing someone.

By the way, Dink was an awesome person. He was a friend of my dad and it's a real big loss. However he was stupid enough to say that Armenian genoicde didn't happen. I wonder what he thinks about it right now.

And zshabe, your reasons are stupid and not true. Just shut up.

zshabe
01-24-2007, 05:45 AM
And zshabe, your reasons are stupid and not true. Just shut up.


When you do not have enough knowledge , IQ , EQ , you absolutely have nothing to say !!

Europeans and armenians mostly do this way I think. When it comes to talk about the real facts , they run away and say "You are stupid, you are turk ,shut up,.."etc.

We officially asked to open national archieves correspondingly with armenians, but armenians ran away, europeans act like they didn't hear our proposal!!!

I repeat Turkish governments proposal : If your balls enough ( I know you don't have it killer queen!!:) ) come and open the national archieves correspondingly and discuss it with historicans even infront of the televisions !!!

adombomb222
01-24-2007, 08:07 AM
zshabe, keep you're bullshit genocide denying propaganda in the thread its meant to be in!

zshabe
01-24-2007, 08:42 AM
zshabe, keep you're bullshit genocide denying propaganda in the thread its meant to be in!

Hahahaha I give facts, reasons and you can only say that!!!! Ok I'll go to other topic!! :)
But look at the previous replies and even the first comment on this topic, you'll see that I am not the one taking this topic into genocide tale!!!

You believe what you want to believe!!

Just like any ignorant human being!!! Keep on walking!!

wheelchairman
01-24-2007, 10:05 AM
1. Armenians claim the genocide(!) took place in 1915 ??? What was happening in 1915 in Turkey ?? Firstly the country was at WW1 !! And How many of you know the Canakkale, the biggest war of WW1 ?? IT WAS IN 1915 ,250.000 Turks and 250.000 French + English + New Zealander had died!! And Canakkale was at the west coast of Turkey. Armenians claim genocide at the same time on the east side of Turkey!! How is it possible ? Do you understand the meaning of 250.000 Turkish citizen ?? The population of Turkey in 1934 was 10 million!!!! And in that war it self 250.000 of them died in 1915!!

2. Do you know how Greeks and Bulgarians got their freedom in 1800s ??? They naturally wait Ottomans getting weaker. They wait for the most weaker time and allied with English and French armies. And they provoked and killed many Turks, Turks killed many but finally they declared their independence with the help of English and French army. In order to get their freedom they have to kill many Turks, and they did. It is a rule and they did it, I understand it. So Armenians naturally tried to do the same thing. They allied with Russia. But in 1915 Turkish armies and Civilians stopped and sinked French and English navy. And they couldn't help Russia which had many problems inside. Armenians did'nt believe that Turks can stop the French And English alliance and attacked Turkish villages on the east of Turkey . (It was easier when the most of them was at the west coast in canakkale) But when the Turkish troops had a victory over English and French armies, Russia had a revolution and couldn't give the support that they promised to armenians. (Armenians helped russia in the mid 1800's against Ottomans which is proved by all historicians and Russia promised to pay back them in their indepence trial just like Greeks, Bulgarians and other balkan countries.) After that Armenians couldn't be successful without help and many of them died.

3. Armenians claim 1,5 million loss!!! :-) :-) Funniest thing!! They never reached 1,5 million in Turkey. Currently their total population is around 3 million. In 1915 Turkey's population was around 6 million!!!! 6 million and you re saying 1,5 million of them ,even more is armenian right ??? Hahaha!! Ridicolous!!! 1,5 million armenian, 2 million arab, 2 million balkanian, 2 million kurd and it is 7,5 million without Turks ??? Hahaha!! hohohohohooo, Please.....

4. Why do armenians refuse to open national archieves correspondingly?? Why do they refused it ?? Their Balls not enough!!

5. Why do they refused American and German historicans reports that are all saying "There is no Genocide ??"

6. Turks have the strongest era between 1400-1700!! If they have an intention to finish armenians, why don't they do it between these ages ?? You claim that, they did it in their weakest time in WW1 , in 1915 ??

7. Genocide can only commited by a country which has the power and authority. Ottomans existed between 1299-1918. And they claim Ottomans did it in 1915 while their lands surrounded by the alliance forces in WW1 and having their "To be or not to be" war ?? How does it sound to you ? Is it logical ? If you do not believe just look at your history books to see where were the Ottomans army in 1915?? How many of them died in that war in 1915 ?? Just have a look and talk after!!

Look at Turkish national teams today. Do you see any black man ? Any north african like Zidane , Thuram, etc. ?? Look at English and French national teams!! They occupied these places for 3-4 years , instead of 400-500 years, and they all asimilated, made them their slaves. We were on those lands not 3-4 years, but 400-500 years, Did you see any Zinedine Zidane, Thiery Henry, Thuram in our national teams?? Ottomans, Turks never had an asimilation or a slavery policy but most of the europeans did and you can easily see it if you look at their national teams!!

Zshabe, thank you for responding and not being a complete lunatic.

However I disagree. Your first link there is pretty useless because I can't read Turkish. For all I know it says that the entire Armenian minority living in Turkey was walking down those streets.

1. To your first claim. You say that it was impossible that the Turkish army could have killed 1 million Armenians. However the Turkish goverment says that it did kill about 300,000. So you are obviously exaggerating, or the Turkish government lies. Your government claims it killed 300,000 during various battles, and that the Armenians killed about just as much Turks. So you can assume that Turkey had at least a 1/3rd again as much troops there. Thus making your original claim to be an exaggeration. Or else making the Turkish government liars.

2. Now you claim that the unaided Armenians did die by Turkish occupation of their land....

3. I never made a claim to how many had died. In fact, I never even really talked about the Armenian genocide in this thread. I just said Dink did. And a 17 year old idiot killed him. I would like some sources for your numbers though. Neutral sources plz.

4. I don't know. Why would I care? Maybe they did. It's probably because you are both wrong. The German Military Attaché of the area stated that the Turkish government had begone the annihiliaton of all ethnic Armenians in the area of Transcaucasia. And by British diplomatic estimates in the area, the Armenian casualties against Turkey were probably close to 600,000 to 800,000. Obviously Turkey is trying to say they killed less. And obviously Armenia is trying to say they killed more. But I think it's rather obvious the Genocide did happen. You just didn't kill 1,5 million.

5. German historical reports say it did happen.

The Turks have embarked upon the "total extermination of the Armenians in Transcaucasia...The aim of Turkish policy is, as I have reiterated, the taking of possession of Armenian districts and the extermination of the Armenians. Talaat's government wants to destroy all Armenians, not just in Turkey but also outside Turkey. On the basis of all the reports and news coming to me here in Tiflis there hardly can be any doubt that the Turks systematically are aiming at the extermination of the few hundred thousand Armenians whom they left alive until now
^ Dadrian, History of the Armenian Genocide, p. 349

6. It doesn't matter when they were strongest. It matters when it will be most advantageous and whatnot. It's the benefits and the cost...

7. Yes it does seem logical. In fact, most of the academic community thinks it happened....

You might as well ask yourself then. How many Jews play on the German national football team? That logic is terrible...

killer_queen
01-24-2007, 01:17 PM
When you do not have enough knowledge , IQ , EQ , you absolutely have nothing to say !!

Europeans and armenians mostly do this way I think. When it comes to talk about the real facts , they run away and say "You are stupid, you are turk ,shut up,.."etc.

We officially asked to open national archieves correspondingly with armenians, but armenians ran away, europeans act like they didn't hear our proposal!!!

I repeat Turkish governments proposal : If your balls enough ( I know you don't have it killer queen!!:) ) come and open the national archieves correspondingly and discuss it with historicans even infront of the televisions !!!
You are right, I don't have balls. But at least I do know a few things about my country. I don't just believe anything I read, I believe what I see. And what I see is pure racism. Turks can't stand the idea of living with Armenians, Kurds, etc and don't want to see a tiny little part of their culture in their lives. You might fool the foreigners with saying "omg, thousands of people were at his funeral" and giving links but I'm not buying that. I live in Turkey and fortunately I'm smart enough not to believe that my country isn't the best as they taught us in primary school.

zshabe
01-25-2007, 01:03 AM
Zshabe, thank you for responding and not being a complete lunatic.

However I disagree. Your first link there is pretty useless because I can't read Turkish. For all I know it says that the entire Armenian minority living in Turkey was walking down those streets.

Hahahaha , Entire Armenian minority!!! hahaha do you really believe waht your saying ?? Then use this link!!!! http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,3-2562688.html

1. To your first claim. You say that it was impossible that the Turkish army could have killed 1 million Armenians. However the Turkish goverment says that it did kill about 300,000. So you are obviously exaggerating, or the Turkish government lies. Your government claims it killed 300,000 during various battles, and that the Armenians killed about just as much Turks. So you can assume that Turkey had at least a 1/3rd again as much troops there. Thus making your original claim to be an exaggeration. Or else making the Turkish government liars.


Army situated in west coast and armenians were at the east. They tried to do what Greeks and Bulgarians do. But they couldn't get support from russia. They attacked Turkish villages, killed many and died many. While the most of the army was in the west coast, civilians defend themselves and killed many on the east. Turkish government moved these people to a safer places which is also mentioned in British National Archieves. ( Look at the arguments in other topic, Big lie armenian genocide)

2. Now you claim that the unaided Armenians did die by Turkish occupation of their land....

"Of their land" Where was their land ??? I explained here the model that armenians tried. They tried to do the same thing as Balkanians did, all civilians riot and finally they declared their independence.

3. I never made a claim to how many had died. In fact, I never even really talked about the Armenian genocide in this thread. I just said Dink did. And a 17 year old idiot killed him. I would like some sources for your numbers though. Neutral sources plz.

( Please look at the Biritish National archieves That I publishen in Big lie: Armenian Genocide topic)

4. I don't know. Why would I care? Maybe they did. It's probably because you are both wrong. The German Military Attaché of the area stated that the Turkish government had begone the annihiliaton of all ethnic Armenians in the area of Transcaucasia. And by British diplomatic estimates in the area, the Armenian casualties against Turkey were probably close to 600,000 to 800,000. Obviously Turkey is trying to say they killed less. And obviously Armenia is trying to say they killed more. But I think it's rather obvious the Genocide did happen. You just didn't kill 1,5 million.

Armenian minority has lived in peace and welfare under Turkish rule. According to Dr Andrew Mango, "Their prosperity grew until, by the middle of the 19th century, they became one of the richest communities of the Ottoman empire, prominent not only in trade and professions, but also in the service of state....Armanian nationalism did nor become a political force until after the defeat at the hands of the Russians in 1878. Armenian nationalists aimed at creating an Armenian state in an area which had a predominantly Muslim and largely Turkish population." (Dr. Andrew Mango's speech given on March 15, 2001 )

5. German historical reports say it did happen.

^ Dadrian, History of the Armenian Genocide, p. 349

"The genocide allegation is further discredited by Great Britain's unavailing attempt to prove Ottoman officials of war crimes. It occupied Ottoman territory, including Istanbul, under the 1918 Mudros Armistice. Under section 230 of the Treaty of Sevres, Ottoman officials were subject to prosecution for war crimes like genocide. Great Britain had access to Ottoman archives, but found no evidence of Armenian genocide. Scores of Ottoman Turks were detained on Malta, nonetheless, under suspicion of complicity in Armenian massacres or worse. But all were released in 1922 for want of evidence." (Bruce Fein, An Armenian and Muslim Tragedy? Yes! Genocide? No!)

"171 countries do not recognize an Armenian genocide. Only 10 countries do recognize.

On May 19, 1985, a total of 63 scholars from various American universities sent a letter to the U.S. House of representatives opposing the House Joint Resolution 192 which defines the events of 1915 as genocide.

To name a few renowned historians who believe that there's no such thing as Armenian genocide; Bernard Lewis (Princeton University), Justin McCarthy (University of Louisville), Gilles Veinstein (College de France), Stanford Shaw (UCLA), J.C. Hurewitz (Columbia University), Heath Lowry (Princeton University), Guenter Lewy (University of Massachusetts), Roderic Davison (Central European University), Jeremy Salt (University of Melbourne), Malcolm Yapp (University of London), Rhoads Murphey (University of Birmingham)..."

6. It doesn't matter when they were strongest. It matters when it will be most advantageous and whatnot. It's the benefits and the cost...

I tried to show their way of living here. If they have an intention to genocide these ages would be the right time

7. Yes it does seem logical. In fact, most of the academic community thinks it happened....


You might as well ask yourself then. How many Jews play on the German national football team? That logic is terrible...

May be but my aim was here to show Ottomans never had an asimilation policy. And my point is, in the stage of dissolution, the genocide possibility of an empire which never had even an asimilation policy!!


And killer queen you lie when you are saying the ones who walked after Hrant Dink's funeral was not Turk.

adombomb222
01-25-2007, 06:51 AM
Hahahaha I give facts, reasons and you can only say that!!!! Ok I'll go to other topic!! :)
But look at the previous replies and even the first comment on this topic, you'll see that I am not the one taking this topic into genocide tale!!!

You believe what you want to believe!!

Just like any ignorant human being!!! Keep on walking!!

No what you posted before (and posting now) is a list of bullshit that does not belong in the theard. The [Turkish] man who was killed by a brainwashed Turkish kid, is who/what this thread is about. Just because he reported on the Genocide, does not mean you can deny it here as well.

the_GoDdEsS
01-25-2007, 07:25 AM
Sooo, are you friends with any Armenians?

zshabe
01-25-2007, 03:09 PM
Sooo, are you friends with any Armenians?

Yes I had Armenian friends. I have some closed armenian friends but the sad thing is this increasing tension effected our relations negatively. We didn't even confess the reality each other, but we surely feel it.

XYlophonetreeZ
01-25-2007, 11:25 PM
Next time vote chicken.