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JoY
01-31-2007, 01:30 PM
I saw your picture. ah yes, new years eve. I understand it must be very tiring to stay up late that one night a year, that you celebrate the beginning of the next, without the help of a chemical substance. *friendly smile*

do you know what causes red eyes in pictures?
the iris of the eye is a substantial part, that doesn't let a lot of light pass, but the pupil is basically the hole through which the light falls in. the light of the camera's flash falls into the pupils, through the lens, to eventually reach the retina, on which the light reflects with a red colour from the bloodvessels that nourish the eye.

the size of the pupil is controlled by the constriction & dilation of the iris & not so much the pupil, which is logical, seeing I just explained the pupil pretty much is a hole. if you think logically, you'll understand contraction of the iris causes the pupil to dilate (functional in the dark to let as much light fall in as possible) & dilation of the iris causes the pupil to contract (when in bright light, this protects the retina). relaxants cause your iris to relax & therefore your pupil to contract. someone on heroin for instance has pinpoint pupils, meaning as tiny as it fucking gets. stimulants cause the iris to contract & therefore the pupil to dilate.

as I just explained, the red eyes in pictures are caused by light reflecting on the retina behind the pupil. meaning the red you can see in your eyes in that particular picture is entirely your very own pupil. the dude on your right (left for the viewer) has smaller red eyes with a darker shade of red. the much lighter shade of red in your eyes would mean your eyes are less nourished with blood & that bloodvessels, that nourish the eye, are less on the surface. vasoconstriction would cause this. well done. very well done. now there are two options, knowing you were going out & the recreational use of the following substances; cocaine or methamphetamines, under the name of speed.

knowing nightlife, you & your budget a little & seeing the people/surrounding, I think it's a lot more likely you had been eating out of the meth-jar. because cocaine really really, really attracts a snobbish rich-kid crowd & I don't take you for such a type.

meth(yl)amphetamines (but this entire story pretty much goes for cocaine, too) cause euphoria & a happy feeling by acting directly on the brain's reward mechanism, making it very addictive. imagine that; you're taking speed & you get the feeling you're doing something really, really right. that's meth playing tricks on your brain. methamphetamines cause a secretion of high levels of the neurotransmitters norepinephrine & dopamine, which stimulates braincells of the sympathic nervesystem.

the sympathic nervesystem stimulates about every function & muscle in your entire body, except those of the metabolic tract (bowels, stomach, et cetera); those are in fact inhibited. the effect of meth therefore resembles the typical epinephrine-provoked fight-or-flight response, that is induced by possibly life-threatening situations (what we call an "adrenaline rush");
- heart rate goes up (heart muscle is stimulated to more & stronger contractions),
- vasoconstriction is stimulated (like I said; almost every muscle constricts, also in arterial walls - this is, by the way, why entire chunks of the noses in cocaine addicts disappear)
- blood pressure goes up (more blood is pumped around per time unit through constricted vains, since they're also under the influence of the sympathic nervesystem)
- metabolic tract is inhibited, eliminating appetite & potentially causing nausea & diarrhea (that's why you can express fear by the expression "shitting yourself").
- hyperglycemia; too high bloodsugar level, that causes the insulin level to go through the roof.

adrenaline rushes bring you in a state in which every muscle (except those of the metabolic tract, because what do you need food for when your life is in danger?) is tensed, ready for action, so you are ready to either run, or fight. that's why it's called the fight/flight response. it usually passes so quickly, because it only becomes active in emergencies that require a completely alert state & a quick response. as soon as the situation is solved one way or the other, your body stops the response as quickly as possible. do you understand why?

do you understand what hypertrophic cardiomyopathy is? it's the pathologic (disease inducing) state of a thickened heartmuscle. it causes disruptions of the electrical functions of the heart (contracting) & can cause obstruction of the bloodflow to the heart itself (causing a heartattack), or to the body.

with the effects of meth in mind that I just explained, you can imagine this is what the result would look like, if you took meth day in day out. hypertrophic cardiomyopathy is caused by a request/offer dismatch. that's why professional sportsmen mostly get this disease. the body requests more oxygen/blood (for more activity), than the heart pumps around; heart starts contracting stronger & more frequently to supply the body with blood, logically also asking more of its own muscle cells.

seeing the heart is one big muscle.. contracting more & stronger requires more of the entire heart. more activity means more oxygen is needed, which is in the form of blood, that the heart itself has to pump to itself through coronary arteries, that are tight around the heart to supply it with blood. the heart is only supplied with blood in between contractions, because a contraction momentarily thickens the heart so much, it obstructs the coronary arteries.
imagine a heart is pumping reeeally fast & barely relaxes between contractions...

do the math.

imagine the difference between how you normally are & what you're like when you've taken.. "a little something to keep you going". you're more active, you're hyper, getting quite a work-out in the mean time, if you know what I mean (& you know what I mean). your muscles will require more oxygen, the heart was already activated to pump more frequently with more force, so basically it can't do much more than that. the poor thing needs blood for itself too & it doesn't get any during contractions.

you don't eat, because a stimulant kills appetite. this while such active muscles could certainly use a little something for their metabolism to get energy... the funny thing is, your bloodsuger is high, so insulin is released like mad, trying to lower it again, stealing away the one possible thing that at that moment could give enough energy for your muscles.

blood pressure goes up, so your body tries to get rid of fluids to lower the pressure, causing you to pee more. as I mentioned you're likely to feel nausia & have diarrhea from putting your metabolic tract on hold, meaning you're likely to lose a lot of fluid through either one of those pathways. you are problably drinking alcohol, causing you to dry out even more. malnutricion (your metabolic tract is shut off & you're not hungry) causes an electrolyte imbalance, that also causes you to dry out. besides that (most importantly), you sweat like a freaking pig from dancing like a maniac.
in short; the door for dehydration is as you see very, very wide open.

I wanted to ask you if before reading this post, you knew any of this.


itís funny, the things you can know from seeing a picture. *smiles*

Grabbal
01-31-2007, 01:32 PM
You must be damn well educated!!

Whiplash
01-31-2007, 01:38 PM
And i had one damm great evening.

But i'm not addicted to it. (speed) I used it for thats night and that night only. I'm thinking about ussing it again on queensday.

And all the effects you wrote about are right:

I feld really really happy and i wanted to be friends with just about anybody.
and i was dancing like a moron, wich i ussually never do.

Duskygrin
01-31-2007, 01:39 PM
& you looked good

I was thinking of you, bella, today, yesterday & the day before. I'm in a bioinformatics class for the whole week, dealing with DNA, RNA, ribosomes, Nucleotid/ proteic sequences etc. It all is beyond me. Only 2 days more to go & I'll go back to finance, my domain.

JoY
01-31-2007, 01:44 PM
And i had one damm great evening.

But i'm not addicted to it. (speed) I used it for thats night and that night only. I'm thinking about ussing it again on queensday.

And all the effects you wrote about are right:

I feld really really happy and i wanted to be friends with just about anybody.
and i was dancing like a moron, wich i ussually never do.

I remember a costudent & acquaintance of mine felt the same. exactly the same, actually. he was celebrating carnaval & I hope he aswel had one "damm great evening", because it was his last. =)

Endymion
01-31-2007, 01:45 PM
how many people did you sissykick that night?

Whiplash
01-31-2007, 01:46 PM
He OD'd? wow that sucks.
I'm sorry to hear that. Trust me that is never going to happen to me, i know its easy to say that. But i just know.

Whiplash
01-31-2007, 01:47 PM
how many people did you sissykick that night?

I didn't really feal like fighting at all.

JoY
01-31-2007, 01:47 PM
You must be damn well educated!!

I may certainly hope so, because this is what I'm trying to study. ;p

Duskygrin
01-31-2007, 01:48 PM
euh whiplash stop the meth or I'll never ever speak to you again... sorry it's final

Grabbal
01-31-2007, 01:54 PM
I may certainly hope so, because this is what I'm trying to study. ;p



Well you're my idol then cause that's what I wanna study later, but I'm not sure if I'm gonna get in..

Llamas
01-31-2007, 02:01 PM
Bella, I used to have the typical internet-doubt about your credibility on the medical side. You just won my complete belief, and heart. <333

JoY
01-31-2007, 02:07 PM
He OD'd? wow that sucks.
I'm sorry to hear that. Trust me that is never going to happen to me, i know its easy to say that. But i just know.

he felt so euphoric that night, he took a couple more than just one. anyway, that probably wasn't even most of the problem. he pushed himself over the edge by a) drinking too much alcohol with it, b) partying real wildly. he dehydrated, ended up dying in his own vomit.

it's said in his defense that he took bad quality stuff... well, a lot of that goes around & yes, that would indeed make it slightly less his own fault. but on the other hand, he should've anticipated on the knowledge there's so much bad stuff on the market. fuck, everyone knows that. even if it was bad quality & he couldn't have known that it was (reliable source, kind of pills..), he's a retard for putting his life in danger for one single "damm great evening".

it's also incredibly retarded, that he thought everything I just wrote down, that he knew only too well (third year med student), didn't apply to him. everyone always thinks it doesn't apply to them & that in their case it'll be different & end differently. I see you do, obviously.

if I ever have to tell you "I told you so", you won't be there to say it to, so just in case I'll just say in advance that I told you so. & if anything ever goes wrong now, I hope you realise you'd be not just a retard, but an informed retard.

JoY
01-31-2007, 02:33 PM
Bella, I used to have the typical internet-doubt about your credibility on the medical side. You just won my complete belief, and heart. <333

aw, thank yous.<3

sometimes I know stuff, that I assume have a certain effect on the body & I try to explain every pathologic mechanism, but then, when looking more closely into it, I find it influences mechanisms in a whole different way, having either the same, a slightly, or a whole different effect. so yeah, I fuck up quite a few times, thanks to my incomplete knowledge of things & false/unlogical/unpractical reasoning.

I do look more into things that I try to explain to others & when I've got a feeling I'm off, I try to find out how/why I could be incorrect & correct myself, even if just for myself.

so.. don't believe me on everything just yet. :p


Whiplash, I have to ask you this; did you read everything, or just the part about being euphoric & hyper? if you did.. read everything.. what is your reaction to it, I was wondering. & did you know any of this, except the euphoric & hyper part, BEFORE ever taking speed? or did you just decide to take speed, without even being aware of what it does, what causes its effects & the possible consequences?

Llamas
01-31-2007, 02:39 PM
hehe, I don't accept everything at face value, of course. ;) I just mean, you've proven that you atleast know what you're talking about and not just pulling stuff off the internet or something, you know?

Little_Miss_1565
01-31-2007, 02:57 PM
He OD'd? wow that sucks.
I'm sorry to hear that. Trust me that is never going to happen to me, i know its easy to say that. But i just know.

LOLOLOLOLOLOL. Everyone who has ever died from it said that.

JoY
01-31-2007, 02:59 PM
@ Bri; even if I'm wrong, I do know for most part what I'm talking about. or at least some part, that seems to be of value. you can be sure of that, because I wouldn't start discussing it in the first place, if I didn't. ;p

I'm almost certain that everything I said must be somewhere on the internet. I don't know how thoroughly it'd be explained & how reliable it'd be, but generally you can definitely find this info on the internet.

I find it cute that you think I didn't use any sources, because I did use the internet for the spelling of "hypertrophic cardiomyopathy" in English.:o LOLZ! but all of this theoretic jazz thank god is not too complicated & pretty simple. & I find it pretty useful, especially in night life. not like I would think for instance; "oh that kid's dehydrated, because...*all mechanisms*....", but I'd instantly know if he'd taken a stimulant & then consider the possibilities of dehydration, intoxication & such.

Llamas
01-31-2007, 03:09 PM
haha, no, I figured you would use the internet for sources. Nevermind. :-P I don't really know how to explain my thought process...

JoY
01-31-2007, 03:25 PM
I was thinking about what you said. maybe it's because I detected symptoms & used those for my basis, reasoning/argumenting from that information, in this one specific case, being Whiplash.

Whiplash; answer plz? if you're offline now, when you're back?

Llamas
01-31-2007, 03:40 PM
I was thinking about what you said. maybe it's because I detected symptoms & used those for my basis, reasoning/argumenting from that information, in this one specific case, being Whiplash.

Precisely, my dear. :) You win the pizza trophy.

JoY
01-31-2007, 03:41 PM
pizza!! you know I luv pizza.<33

JoY
01-31-2007, 03:52 PM
LOLOLOLOLOLOL. Everyone who has ever died from it said that.

that's either because they know so much about it, they think they'll be smarter than any of the kids that ever ODed (overestimating oneself = stupid & leads to doing stupid things), or they know too little.

in the case of the guy I knew, it was definitely the first option. in the case of Whiplash, I'm pretty certain it's the latter. which is a shame, because I just tried to fully inform him & then he vomits those words out on the table.

but honestly.. how can you put something in your body, that has such a massive effect on your physical & mental state, without knowing & wanting, DYING, to know what establishes the effect & what consequences exactly that could have?

Little_Miss_1565
01-31-2007, 06:47 PM
Well, that you would lay it out for Whiplash so completely yet he would still be so retarded to come back with that, he might not be far from the first category as well.

JohnnyNemesis
01-31-2007, 06:53 PM
ZOMG OLD SCHOOL POST:

Whiplash is a stupid sissykicking faggot.

Bazza
01-31-2007, 06:53 PM
Can someone please give me a v short veriosn of whats going on because i really havent got the time to read! sorry!

0r4ng3
01-31-2007, 06:54 PM
ZOMG OLD SCHOOL POST:

Whiplash is a stupid sissykicking faggot.
ZOMG EVEN OLDER SCHOOL POST:

pathfinder is a stupid sissykicking faggot.

Tizzalicious
01-31-2007, 07:11 PM
In short: Whiplash, you're an idiot.

Bazza
01-31-2007, 07:14 PM
hehe, I'm guessing whiplash is rather like:
http://www.icsd.k12.ny.us/esp/Caroline/emiller/images/TCmuseum/troll.JPG

killer_queen
02-01-2007, 02:34 AM
Oh. My. God. Now I love Bella more than I love House.

Whiplash
02-01-2007, 05:12 AM
Whiplash; answer plz? if you're offline now, when you're back?

I knew of all the crap it does to you. rapid heart beats and that kind of stuff.
I know its a retarded and stupid thing to do, but i did it anyway.
I always want to try stuff before bashing it. But you guy's all think i'm some kind of junkie who uses it every day. I'm not that was the first time i ever used it, and i don't know if i will use it again. I don't know what the future brings.

Zeall
02-01-2007, 05:40 AM
I always want to try stuff before bashing it.
That's why people think you're an idiot, in this case, you may have only been able to try it once.

JoY
02-01-2007, 06:19 AM
Gulsah, I love you too, girl. unconditionally.<3


I knew of all the crap it does to you. rapid heart beats and that kind of stuff.
I know its a retarded and stupid thing to do, but i did it anyway.
I always want to try stuff before bashing it.

yeah, but I imagine that if you think; "hey! causes rapid hearbeat", the following thought to that is; "oh okay, so what?" & that it pretty much stops there, if you don't understand the underlying cause of that & the processes that establish it. & not; "oh noes, rapid heartbeat! tachycardia causes a number of pathologic processes & risks!"

you know it's a stupid thing to do, but you did it anyway. because.. because you want to try everything, from which it is known for a fact it's bad for you & a stupid thing to do.. to find out for yourself it indeed is bad for you & a stupid thing to do.. well, that logic works. in puberty, when you're 14. I could tell you to try bleach next time, but I think you're a good kid, so never mind.

just admit right away that you were curious & that you thought it'd be cool & don't try to act like you're super open minded, for "giving speed a chance" before bashing it. would you give someone with Down syndrom a shot in a relationship, because you're so open minded, you'd try everything before ever concluding it's not a good idea?

Endymion
02-01-2007, 06:50 AM
I always want to try stuff before bashing it.

try suicide.

Whiplash
02-01-2007, 07:08 AM
Joy:

Offcourse i was curious, aren't we all?
And about the down syndrome: Maybe i should have explaind better, I'm wasn't talking about relationships or sexuallity. For instance i would never be with a guy just to find out what it would be like, I would never be with a guy at all.

Zeall
02-01-2007, 07:09 AM
Offcourse i was curious, aren't we all?


no, no we are not, i never EVER want to try speed, EVER!

Grabbal
02-01-2007, 07:16 AM
Haven't you ever seen movies about this??

Whiplash
02-01-2007, 07:27 AM
no, no we are not, i never EVER want to try speed, EVER!

Not about drugs, about everything in life.

Zeall
02-01-2007, 07:34 AM
Not about drugs, about everything in life.

Everything in life includes drugs, which i don't want to do...

JoY
02-01-2007, 07:53 AM
Joy:

Offcourse i was curious, aren't we all?
And about the down syndrome: Maybe i should have explaind better, I'm wasn't talking about relationships or sexuallity. For instance i would never be with a guy just to find out what it would be like, I would never be with a guy at all.

I wasn't necessarily talking about relationships, or sexuality either. I was talking about the concept of trying things, because you have to have experienced something to know you shouldn't do it. do you feel the same about cocaine, or heroin?
yes? why?
no? why not?
these are pretty basic questions, babe. questions you should ask yourself before doing something like methamphetamines.

sorry I'm being such a moral knight in shining armor, but to me it's completely ridiculous that people claim they try things, for the absolute pseudo-reason that they somehow don't want to assume science & the masses are right by saying it's bad for you, but that they have to figure it out for themselves. that's so hardcore rawkstar, like, whoa.. like, you tried it & it like, messed with your heart frequency? NO WAY! so, like, it actually RLY dos htat???!11

I hope you see I'm not trying to send out the message you should never, ever, ever, EVER use speed in your entire life. (Edit; although I personally don't think I ever will) I want to know if you knew what the fuck you were doing & what made you decide to use methamphetamines for the first time. if there was any logical track of thoughts behind it. I'm trying to tell you that if/when you try it, you should at least think it through a little, because it's a pretty big deal. & you know that, because wasn't that the reason you removed that picture?

you probably heard a few things about meth, were curious about what the effects you heard about would feel like & you satisfied your curiosity now, didn't you? I mean, that's a track of thoughts I can remotely follow & also kinda understand.

what is utter bullshit, is that you did it, because you're so open minded & rebellious that you didn't want to "judge" speed like "the rest of us". because there's no "judging" speed. speed sucks, period. it's not some personal judgement/opinion, or your own little research/study that could lead to surprising, mindblowing, eye-opening findings & discoveries. the health effects are just simple facts.

this earth is not your personal laboratory. there's no need for "heroic" behaviour by testing everything to know what the effect is. there are people in this world that do that work for you- smart people, educated people. but also dumb people, who end up dying in a pile of vomit on carnaval. be glad & embrace it.

JoY
02-01-2007, 07:59 AM
Everything in life includes drugs, which i don't want to do...

& sexuality, & relationships. but I'll let that point pass.

Whiplash; plz read my superlong, moralistic, boring post & respond, because for some reason I put some time & effort into it. thx in advance.

Whiplash
02-01-2007, 08:03 AM
I've did read it, And you're true on many points. I'm not some rebbelious teen that doesn't give a shit about what the world thinks of him. I'll never use heroin or xtc. I know its the opposite of what i just said, But i have my borders.

JoY
02-01-2007, 08:13 AM
exactly, now we're getting somewhere.

why do you think of heroin & XTC differently than speed?

did you once think the same way about speed?
what changed your mind & made you cross a line you once drew for yourself?

or why did you always consider speed differently than heroin & XTC?
what made you draw a line between speed on one hand & heroin & XTC on the other?

as I said, basic questions that at least I would normally ask myself, before getting myself into something that's that big of a deal. you did remove that picture, so it's not exactly like you think of it lightly, either. on one hand I bet you found it kind of cool of yourself that you took a step to the "darker" side & tried it. on the other I think in the back of your head you knew, that it's a big enough of a deal, that a person like me would call you on it.

Whiplash
02-01-2007, 08:16 AM
Speed is nothing compared to heroin, and i think xtc is just waaaay to dangerous because you should only take one per night but i don't trust myself to take only one. So i don't use that either.

And i did use speed because it was avaible to me that night.

JoY
02-01-2007, 08:32 AM
heroin indeed is a much bigger deal than speed, so I'll label that thought as pretty logical.

the chemical name of XTC (& oh yes, I so looked that one up) is 3,4-methylenedioxy-N-methylamphetamine. hey wait, that's funny, because somehow "methylamphetamine" sounds very familliar to me. rrright, so it's speed, but with a litle sumthinsumthin extra to increase the effect, while possibly adding a few to it.

now, personally I know the effects of stimulants in pretty good detail, but I don't know a whole lot about the exact differences between stimulants. especially not if they have similar properties. I was wondering, do you?

as far as I can see the additional effects have to do with XTC not only stimulating the secretion of neurotransmitters that act on the sympathic nervesystem, but also inhibiting the re-uptake of them, causing a much longer & probably stronger effect.

so you can only take one XTC pill, while you can take more than one pill of speed, & you don't trust yourself to know & follow that limit. this is what you said. do you think, that you can limit the amount of speed you take, when you can't trust yourself with something else? personally.. I don't. do you think you can limit yourself when it comes to your alcohol intake, obviously more than you would normally, because you've been taking speed? personally, I don't. both alcohol & speed make you overestimate yourself. you think you can handle more, et cetera. so where is that invisible limit of yours?

if cocaine had been available that night, would you have taken it? it's also a stimulant. or would snorting anything be too much of a hassle?

Whiplash
02-01-2007, 08:36 AM
I did snort the speed. I never used pills.

Xtc is about ten times stronger then speed.( i used pep a thined down version of speed) With xtc you just want to keep taking more, and i didn't have that with speed. I took a couple of key's, together they formed maybe half a line.

JoY
02-01-2007, 09:38 AM
you're answering like, only half of my questions.

did you, or did you not ever think differently about speed, than you do now?
what changed your view in a way, that you decided to take speed?

why do you think it'd be that way with XTC, that you'd only end up taking more? after all, you never tried it, right?
probably because you're informed by someone who'd know.
why do you take that person's word for it, when you haven't tried it yourself & didn't take the word of people who have informed you in the past on the dangers of speed?

do you think you can limit your alcohol intake sufficiently, while you're euphoric & super selfconfident of both alcohol & speed?
do you think you can make a good judgement on how much is too much & how far is too far, when you've been drinking & snorting? after all, you can't possibly know how much is too much & how far is too far, until it's too late, am I right?

my question concerning cocaine still stands, especially now it appears you'd been snorting that shit.

wheelchairman
02-01-2007, 10:53 AM
He tried it once, it doesn't seem regular. Sure, he was lame enough to brag about it, but so what. I personally don't think I'd try speed, but there are several hard drugs I want to try at least once. Obviously surrounded by people I trust and whatever. I don't see what he did as being such a big deal. The guy just wanted attention.

JoY
02-01-2007, 12:19 PM
as I said, it's not like I'm trying to send out the message to never ever, ever, ever, EVER try anything like this stuff, or something, in a fashion like; "drugs are baadd mmkay?", but I wanted to know if he knew the exact effects before taking them & what made him decide to take them in the first place. it's interest mingled with some sort of misplaced feeling of concern. sure, why do I care, snort speed, do whatever the fuck you wish to do with your life. but at least know what you're doing & put a little thought into it.

now somehow, for some reason.. I had a hunch, wrong or right, that he could use some info & evaluation for the next time he might take some. I wanted to make him retrospetively think about it. don't ask me why, it's not like I'm on a mission of some sort here (although it maybe looks like it), but I thought; "hey, he's a good kid. whatever, he tries speed, but it'd suck if it'd ever end up badly." if this topic entirely wasn't necessary; well, good! if it was, then I hope this has been remotely useful. what can I say?

Whiplash
02-01-2007, 11:37 PM
Sure it was usefull, and i do appreciate what you're doing. I didn't know it was going to be such a big deal for you guy's. I didn't expect everyone to judge me on it.

But bella, Thanks ;)