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DeAtHsTaR
02-28-2007, 10:45 PM
We’ve all heard the “official conspiracy theory” of the Death Star attack. We all know about Luke Skywalker and his ragtag bunch of rebels, how they mounted a foolhardy attack on the most powerful, well-defended battle station ever built. And we’ve all seen the video over, and over, and over, of the one-in-a-million shot that resulted in a massive chain reaction that not just damaged, but completely obliterated that massive technological wonder.

Like many Americans, I was fed this story when I was growing up. But as I watched the video, I began to realize that all was not as it seemed. And the more I questioned the official story, the deeper into the rabbit hole I went.

Presented here are some of the results of my soul-searching regarding this painful event. Like many citizens, I have many questions that I would like answered: was the mighty Imperial government really too incompetent to prevent a handful of untrained nerf-herders from destroying one of their most prized assets? Or are they hiding something from us? Who was really behind the attack? Why did they want the Death Star destroyed? No matter what the answers, we have a problem.

Below is a summary of my book, Uncomfortable Questions: An Analysis of the Death Star Attack, which presents compelling evidence that we all may be the victims of a fraud of immense proportions.


Uncomfortable Questions about the Death Star Attack


1) Why were a handful of rebel fighters able to penetrate the defenses of a battle station that had the capability of destroying an entire planet and the defenses to ward off several fleets of battle ships?

2) Why did Grand Moff Tarkin refuse to deploy the station’s large fleet of TIE Fighters until it was too late? Was he acting on orders from somebody to not shoot down the rebel attack force? If so, who, and why?

3) Why was the rebel pilot who supposedly destroyed the Death Star reported to be on the Death Star days, maybe hours, prior to its destruction? Why was he allowed to escape, and why were several individuals dressed in Stormtrooper uniforms seen helping him?

4) Why has there not been an investigation into allegations that Darth Vader, the second-ranking member of the Imperial Government, is in fact the father of the pilot who allegedly destroyed the Death Star?

5) Why did Lord Vader decide to break all protocols and personally pilot a lightly armored TIE Fighter? Conveniently, this placed Lord Vader outside of the Death Star when it was destroyed, where he was also conveniently able to escape from a large-sized rebel fleet that had just routed the Imperial forces. Why would Lord Vader, one of the highest ranking members of the Imperial Government, suddenly decide to fly away from the Death Star in the middle of a battle? Did he know something that the rest of the Imperial Navy didn’t?

http://www.websurdity.com/images/thepetbantha.jpg


6) How could any pilot shoot a missile into a 2 meter-wide exhaust port, let alone a pilot with no formal training, whose only claim to fame was his ability to “bullseye womprats” on Tatooine? This shot, according to one pilot, would be “impossible, even for a computer.” Yet, according to additional evidence, the pilot who allegedly fired the missile turned off his targeting computer when he was supposedly firing the shot that destroyed the Death Star. Why have these discrepancies never been investigated, let alone explained?

7) Why has their been no investigation into evidence that the droids who provided the rebels with the Death Star plans were once owned by none other than Lord Vader himself, and were found, conveniently, by the pilot who destroyed the Death Star, and who is also believed to be Lord Vader’s son? Evidence also shows that the droids were brought to one Ben Kenobi, who, records indicate, was Darth Vader’s teacher many years earlier! Are all these personal connections between the conspirators and a key figure in the Imperial government supposed to be coincidences?

8) How could a single missile destroy a battle station the size of a moon? No records, anywhere, show that any battle station or capital ship has ever been destroyed by a single missile. Furthermore, analysis of the tape of the last moments of the Death Star show numerous small explosions along its surface, prior to it exploding completely! Why does all evidence indicate that strategically placed explosives, not a single missile, is what destroyed the Death Star?

Convinced Yet? (http://www.websurdity.com.nyud.net:8080/2007/02/28/uncomfortable-questions-was-the-death-star-attack-an-inside-job/)

All About Eve
02-28-2007, 11:04 PM
Your lack of Star Wars knowledge is depressing.



1) Why were a handful of rebel fighters able to penetrate the defenses of a battle station that had the capability of destroying an entire planet and the defenses to ward off several fleets of battle ships?
They didn't; only a handful got by while the majority were kept at bay being slaughtered.


2) Why did Grand Moff Tarkin refuse to deploy the station’s large fleet of TIE Fighters until it was too late? Was he acting on orders from somebody to not shoot down the rebel attack force? If so, who, and why?
Tie fighters were already present due to the number of Star Destroyers around, plus Darth Vader led some from the Death Star. A few extra squadrons wouldn't have helped, really.


3) Why was the rebel pilot who supposedly destroyed the Death Star reported to be on the Death Star days, maybe hours, prior to its destruction? Why was he allowed to escape, and why were several individuals dressed in Stormtrooper uniforms seen helping him?
Because it was his friends dressed up as them?


6) How could any pilot shoot a missile into a 2 meter-wide exhaust port, let alone a pilot with no formal training, whose only claim to fame was his ability to “bullseye womprats” on Tatooine? This shot, according to one pilot, would be “impossible, even for a computer.” Yet, according to additional evidence, the pilot who allegedly fired the missile turned off his targeting computer when he was supposedly firing the shot that destroyed the Death Star. Why have these discrepancies never been investigated, let alone explained?
The force, lol.


7) Why has their been no investigation into evidence that the droids who provided the rebels with the Death Star plans were once owned by none other than Lord Vader himself, and were found, conveniently, by the pilot who destroyed the Death Star, and who is also believed to be Lord Vader’s son?
They had memory wipes after Vader's turn, and remember nothing of the Clone Wars.

All the other questions are just stupid. Those I quoted reflect lack of knowledge.

Paint_It_Black
03-01-2007, 12:19 AM
I actually thought it was quite entertaining.

I wonder where he dained it from?

All About Eve
03-01-2007, 02:36 AM
Actually, he posted a source this time.

wheelchairman
03-01-2007, 02:59 AM
AAE, you're not actually supposed to correct it. Some of the information (like who the men dressed in Stormtrooper Uniforms were) was deliberately left out to create a humorous feel...


Now I'm gonna say what we're all thinking. The Empire, were the fucking good guys.

Some things to think about.

1. The Jedis were a bunch of religious fundamentalist nutcases. I mean they were beyond nuts. They also believed they had a divine right to dispense justice.
2. Their fundamentalism also goes deep into history, I think it's Episode 2 or 3 where someone goes to their library and asks for a bit of information, because the library does not have this information the library concludes that this information does *not* exist. Wtf?
3. The Rebel Alliance wants to re-instate a monarchy. Their cause is not democracy, there is no mention of that intergalactic UN thing. Nope, they want some stupid princess to rule, with her weird hair. (And they also seem to want her to marry her brother, gross fuckers. What is this, ancient Egypt?)
4. The Empire brings peace and order to what was a very disorderly galaxy before the Empire. The Rebels want to destroy this.
5. Double plus bonus points for this one, Anakin Skywalker dies and that is a good thing. Padme does too (probably, I forget), also a good thing.

I think my case is pretty strong.

Paint_It_Black
03-01-2007, 03:33 AM
3. The Rebel Alliance wants to re-instate a monarchy.

Er, what? I think you're a bit confused on this one. And I didn't expect a pro-Empire speech from a commie.

But anyway, I'm a big fan of the Empire.

DeAtHsTaR
03-01-2007, 08:48 AM
blah
Wow, you don't understand the point of the post. And you thought I wrote it?

Sin Studly
03-01-2007, 08:50 AM
Star Wars is gay, and the Empire are obviously the good guys ; no amount of creepy bad-guy music can mask this.

F@ BANKZ
03-01-2007, 08:53 AM
that is apart from, dare i say it, the all powerful Impreial March:eek:

wheelchairman
03-01-2007, 11:38 AM
Er, what? I think you're a bit confused on this one. And I didn't expect a pro-Empire speech from a commie.


Princess Leia? Sounds like royalty to me!

An Emperor can of course be elected. Probably.

mrconeman
03-01-2007, 01:16 PM
You googled your name to come across that didn't you?

Paint_It_Black
03-01-2007, 03:16 PM
Princess Leia? Sounds like royalty to me!


Padme was a Queen, but it was an elected position. I'm certain Leia was something similar.

wheelchairman
03-01-2007, 03:27 PM
Padme was a Queen, but it was an elected position. I'm certain Leia was something similar.

She was elected Rebel Princess, daughter of a Queen?
I refuse to believe it. She was an autocrat. Yay empire!

All About Eve
03-01-2007, 04:23 PM
Wow, you don't understand the point of the post. And you thought I wrote it?
Of course I understood the point. I just don't like factual inaccuracies. It was indeed funny. And no, I didn't think you wrote it, I was just pointing out to Richard that you gave due credit.

And the Empire had the right idea with it's no nonhuman policies. Who wants icky Bothans and Mon Calamari all over the place anyways?

Edit: Leia was a senator, and adopted daughter of Senator Organa, and secretely a rebel leader.

wheelchairman
03-01-2007, 04:36 PM
Edit: Leia was a senator, and adopted daughter of Senator Organa, and secretely a rebel leader.

And a princess, daughter of a Queen. How is that not hereditary? :(

All About Eve
03-01-2007, 04:39 PM
1) Her mother had long stopped being a queen when she died
2) The former regime had ended either way.

DeAtHsTaR
03-01-2007, 04:41 PM
You googled your name to come across that didn't you?

NO.....Haha that completely blew by me. (The fact that my name is deathstar and I posted this)

wheelchairman
03-01-2007, 04:42 PM
This still doesn't explain the whole Princess part of her title.

Yes I know it's probably George Lucas who is the world's worst story-writer. But This makes about as much sense as Annakin strangling Padme after turning to the dark side to save her.

Paint_It_Black
03-01-2007, 05:22 PM
Edit: Leia was a senator, and adopted daughter of Senator Organa, and secretely a rebel leader.

Right.


This still doesn't explain the whole Princess part of her title.

True. I don't know why the fuck she's a princess, but I do know that no one was even aware her mother was a Queen, and her mother was not a Queen in the regal sense.

Anyway, it's not a damn monarchy now drop it!



Yes I know it's probably George Lucas who is the world's worst story-writer. But This makes about as much sense as Annakin strangling Padme after turning to the dark side to save her.

That's not as good as Padme dying from losing "the will to live". Right after giving birth. Some sort of dark side induced post partum depression?

0r4ng3
03-01-2007, 05:25 PM
That's not as good as Padme dying from losing "the will to live". Right after giving birth. Some sort of dark side induced post partum depression?
http://biggercheese.com/comics/0675.png

Paint_It_Black
03-01-2007, 05:29 PM
Do you have an awesome comic for every occasion imaginable?

0r4ng3
03-01-2007, 05:31 PM
Yes. Yes I do.

wheelchairman
03-01-2007, 05:45 PM
Ah here is the article that first turned me to the dark side. I didn't know it was still up, I had tried to find it a year ago. :/

The Case for the Empire
From the May 16, 2002 Daily Standard: Everything you think you know about Star Wars is wrong.
by Jonathan V. Last
12/26/2002 12:00:00 AM

STAR WARS RETURNS today with its fifth installment, "Attack of the Clones." There will be talk of the Force and the Dark Side and the epic morality of George Lucas's series. But the truth is that from the beginning, Lucas confused the good guys with the bad. The deep lesson of Star Wars is that the Empire is good.

It's a difficult leap to make--embracing Darth Vader and the Emperor over the plucky and attractive Luke Skywalker and Princess Leia--but a careful examination of the facts, sorted apart from Lucas's off-the-shelf moral cues, makes a quite convincing case.

First, an aside: For the sake of this discussion, I've considered only the history gleaned from the actual Star Wars films, not the Expanded Universe. If you know what the Expanded Universe is and want to argue that no discussion of Star Wars can be complete without considering material outside the canon, that's fine. However, it's always been my view that the comic books and novels largely serve to clean up Lucas's narrative and philosophical messes. Therefore, discussions of intrinsic intent must necessarily revolve around the movies alone. You may disagree, but please don't e-mail me about it.

If you don't know what the Expanded Universe is, well, uh, neither do I.

I. The Problems with the Galactic Republic

At the beginning of the Star Wars saga, the known universe is governed by the Galactic Republic. The Republic is controlled by a Senate, which is, in turn, run by an elected chancellor who's in charge of procedure, but
has little real power.

Scores of thousands of planets are represented in the Galactic Senate, and as we first encounter it, it is sclerotic and ineffectual. The Republic has grown over many millennia to the point where there are so many factions and disparate interests, that it is simply too big to be governable. Even the Republic's staunchest supporters recognize this failing: In "The Phantom Menace," Queen Amidala admits, "It is clear to me now that the Republic no longer functions." In "Attack of the Clones," young Anakin Skywalker observes that it simply "doesn't work."

The Senate moves so slowly that it is powerless to stop aggression between member states. In "The Phantom Menace" a supra-planetary alliance, the Trade Federation (think of it as OPEC to the Galactic Republic's United Nations), invades a planet and all the Senate can agree to do is call for an investigation.

Like the United Nations, the Republic has no armed forces of its own, but instead relies on a group of warriors, the Jedi knights, to "keep the peace." The Jedi, while autonomous, often work in tandem with the Senate, trying to smooth over quarrels and avoid conflicts. But the Jedi number only in the thousands--they cannot protect everyone.

What's more, it's not clear that they should be "protecting" anyone. The Jedi are Lucas's great heroes, full of Zen wisdom and righteous power. They encourage people to "use the Force"--the mystical energy which is the source of their power--but the truth, revealed in "The Phantom Menace," is that the Force isn't available to the rabble. The Force comes from midi-chlorians, tiny symbiotic organisms in people's blood, like mitochondria. The Force, it turns out, is an inherited, genetic trait. If you don't have the blood, you don't get the Force. Which makes the Jedi not a democratic militia, but a royalist Swiss guard.

And an arrogant royalist Swiss guard, at that. With one or two notable exceptions, the Jedi we meet in Star Wars are full of themselves. They ignore the counsel of others (often with terrible consequences), and seem honestly to believe that they are at the center of the universe. When the chief Jedi record-keeper is asked in "Attack of the Clones" about a planet she has never heard of, she replies that if it's not in the Jedi archives, it doesn't exist. (The planet in question does exist, again, with terrible consequences.)

In "Attack of the Clones," a mysterious figure, Count Dooku, leads a separatist movement of planets that want to secede from the Republic. Dooku promises these confederates smaller government, unlimited free trade, and an "absolute commitment to capitalism." Dooku's motives are suspect--it's not clear whether or not he believes in these causes. However, there's no reason to doubt the motives of the other separatists--they seem genuinely to want to make a fresh start with a government that isn't bloated and dysfunctional.

The Republic, of course, is eager to quash these separatists, but they never make a compelling case--or any case, for that matter--as to why, if they are such a freedom-loving regime, these planets should not be allowed to check out of the Republic and take control of their own destinies.

wheelchairman
03-01-2007, 05:46 PM
II. The Empire

We do not yet know the exact how's and why's, but we do know this: At some point between the end of Episode II and the beginning of
Episode IV, the Republic is replaced by an Empire. The first hint comes in "Attack of the Clones," when the Senate's Chancellor Palpatine is granted emergency powers to deal with the separatists. It spoils very little to tell you that Palpatine eventually becomes the Emperor. For a time, he keeps the Senate in place, functioning as a rubber-stamp, much like the Roman imperial senate, but a few minutes into Episode IV, we are informed that the he has dissolved the Senate, and that "the last remnants of the Old Republic have been swept away."

Lucas wants the Empire to stand for evil, so he tells us that the Emperor and Darth Vader have gone over to the Dark Side and dresses them in black.

But look closer. When Palpatine is still a senator, he says, "The Republic is not what it once was. The Senate is full of greedy, squabbling delegates. There is no interest in the common good." At one point he laments that "the bureaucrats are in charge now."

Palpatine believes that the political order must be manipulated to produce peace and stability. When he mutters, "There is no civility, there is only politics," we see that at heart, he's an esoteric Straussian.

Make no mistake, as emperor, Palpatine is a dictator--but a relatively benign one, like Pinochet. It's a dictatorship people can do business with. They collect taxes and patrol the skies. They try to stop organized crime (in the form of the smuggling rings run by the Hutts). The Empire has virtually no effect on the daily life of the average, law-abiding citizen.

Also, unlike the divine-right Jedi, the Empire is a meritocracy. The Empire runs academies throughout the galaxy (Han Solo begins his career at an Imperial academy), and those who show promise are promoted, often rapidly. In "The Empire Strikes Back" Captain Piett is quickly promoted to admiral when his predecessor "falls down on the job."

And while it's a small point, the Empire's manners and decorum speak well of it. When Darth Vader is forced to employ bounty hunters to track down Han Solo, he refuses to address them by name. Even Boba Fett, the greatest of all trackers, is referred to icily as "bounty hunter." And yet Fett understands the protocol. When he captures Solo, he calls him "Captain Solo." (Whether this is in deference to Han's former rank in the Imperial starfleet, or simply because Han owns and pilots his own ship, we don't know. I suspect it's the former.)

But the most compelling evidence that the Empire isn't evil comes in "The Empire Strikes Back" when Darth Vader is battling Luke Skywalker. After an exhausting fight, Vader is poised to finish Luke off, but he stays his hand. He tries to convert Luke to the Dark Side with this simple plea: "There is no escape. Don't make me destroy you. . . . Join me, and I will complete your training. With our combined strength, we can end this destructive conflict and bring order to the galaxy." It is here we find the real controlling impulse for the Dark Side and the Empire. The Empire doesn't want slaves or destruction or "evil." It wants order.

None of which is to say that the Empire isn't sometimes brutal. In Episode IV, Imperial stormtroopers kill Luke's aunt and uncle and Grand Moff Tarkin orders the destruction of an entire planet, Alderaan. But viewed in context, these acts are less brutal than they initially appear. Poor Aunt Beru and Uncle Owen reach a grisly end, but only after they aid the rebellion by hiding Luke and harboring two fugitive droids. They aren't given due process, but they are traitors.

The destruction of Alderaan is often cited as ipso facto proof of the Empire's "evilness" because it seems like mass murder--planeticide, even. As Tarkin prepares to fire the Death Star, Princess Leia implores him to spare the planet, saying, "Alderaan is peaceful. We have no weapons." Her plea is important, if true.

But the audience has no reason to believe that Leia is telling the truth. In Episode IV, every bit of information she gives the Empire is willfully untrue. In the opening, she tells Darth Vader that she is on a diplomatic mission of mercy, when in fact she is on a spy mission, trying to deliver schematics of the Death Star to the Rebel Alliance. When asked where the Alliance is headquartered, she lies again.

Leia's lies are perfectly defensible--she thinks she's serving the greater good--but they make her wholly unreliable on the question of whether or not Alderaan really is peaceful and defenseless. If anything, since Leia is a high-ranking member of the rebellion and the princess of Alderaan, it would be reasonable to suspect that Alderaan is a front for Rebel activity or at least home to many more spies and insurgents like Leia.

Whatever the case, the important thing to recognize is that the Empire is not committing random acts of terror. It is engaged in a fight for the survival of its regime against a violent group of rebels who are committed to its destruction.

III. After the Rebellion

As we all know from the final Star Wars installment, "Return of the Jedi," the rebellion is eventually successful. The Emperor is assassinated, Darth Vader abdicates his post and dies, the central governing apparatus of the Empire is destroyed in a spectacular space battle, and the rebels rejoice with their small, annoying Ewok friends. But what happens next?

(There is a raft of literature on this point, but, as I said at the beginning, I'm going to ignore it because it doesn't speak to Lucas's original intent.)

In Episode IV, after Grand Moff Tarkin announces that the Imperial Senate has been abolished, he's asked how the Emperor can possibly hope to keep control of the galaxy. "The regional governors now have direct control over territories," he says. "Fear will keep the local systems in line."

So under Imperial rule, a large group of regional potentates, each with access to a sizable army and star destroyers, runs local affairs. These governors owe their fealty to the Emperor. And once the Emperor is dead, the galaxy will be plunged into chaos.

In all of the time we spend observing the Rebel Alliance, we never hear of their governing strategy or their plans for a post-Imperial universe. All we see are plots and fighting. Their victory over the Empire doesn't liberate the galaxy--it turns the galaxy into Somalia writ large: dominated by local warlords who are answerable to no one.

Which makes the rebels--Lucas's heroes--an unimpressive crew of anarchic royals who wreck the galaxy so that Princess Leia can have her tiara back.

I'll take the Empire.

http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/001/248ipzbt.asp?pg=1

All About Eve
03-01-2007, 05:48 PM
You have to recognize though, that the Emperor's reign was far from what Dooku had invisioned, or at least promised.

Venom Symbiote
03-01-2007, 07:56 PM
Someone's been watching Clerks.

WebDudette
03-01-2007, 08:10 PM
Clerks? It's basically Farenhiet 9-11 but Bush and Twin Towers were replaced with Darth Vader and the Death Star. I thought it was pretty funny.

DeAtHsTaR
03-02-2007, 07:08 AM
I love all the Star Wars nerds in here disputing the facts.

Paint_It_Black
03-02-2007, 08:45 AM
I love all the Star Wars nerds in here disputing the facts.

How do you define a Star Wars nerd?

mrconeman
03-02-2007, 10:42 AM
Indeed, indeed.
I could dispute alot of points in this thread, it doesn't make me a Star Wars nerd, it means I've seen the films a few times and payed attention.

F@ BANKZ
03-02-2007, 12:01 PM
Requirements to be a star wars nerd...

*you have bought several star wars "fact" books
*you don't actually watch the films anymore
*you live in a small hole with just an internet connection, your star wars books and yourself
*You noticed the irony of me posting this using stars instead of bullet points

Bazza
03-02-2007, 12:04 PM
And, not forgetting:

*you dress up as a Jedi at the weekend and for any Star Wars film release

All About Eve
03-02-2007, 12:53 PM
See, I do none of those, and still know a lot about the movie. I've read a couple of the expanded universe novels, but that's because they're well written, the fact that they're Star Wars related means nothing.

Not Ozymandias
03-02-2007, 01:00 PM
How do you define a Star Wars nerd?
Anyone who includes the last 3 movies in their argument.

Paint_It_Black
03-02-2007, 05:01 PM
In my experience it's the real Star Wars nerds who like to pretend the prequels never happened.

As a casual fan of Star Wars I greatly prefer the new ones.

DeAtHsTaR
03-02-2007, 05:16 PM
The special effects in Attack of the Clones reminds me of the old Godzilla movies. Horribly fake. Episode III was really good though.

ninthlayer
03-02-2007, 05:18 PM
How do you define a Star Wars nerd?
Anyone that posts a thread about Star Wars on a message board. Hrmm.

Oh, and something I've always wondered: Dain, ctrl+v or right-click?

Paint_It_Black
03-02-2007, 05:32 PM
Fuckin' sigged.

Control v, in case you're wondering.

DeAtHsTaR
03-02-2007, 06:06 PM
Anyone that posts a thread about Star Wars on a message board. Hrmm.

Oh, and something I've always wondered: Dain, ctrl+v or right-click?
Well, I right-click and go to paste, just out of habit. Why?

EDIT: Hahahaha good one! But I posted a fucking source.

WebDudette
03-02-2007, 08:51 PM
In Episode III they used transition effect from Windows Movie Maker every chancethey had.

Paint_It_Black
03-02-2007, 08:55 PM
In Episode III they used transition effect from Windows Movie Maker every chancethey had.

So? That's kind of a Star Wars tradition.

WebDudette
03-02-2007, 08:58 PM
Is it? I only really noticed it in the third one.

All About Eve
03-02-2007, 09:04 PM
Not just that, but using cheap methods to produce cheesy yet fairly spectacular results.

F@ BANKZ
03-03-2007, 06:08 AM
Movies in order of best to worst, agreed by me and my history teacher who is a serious self-confessed star wars nerd.

1: 4
2: 5
3: 3
4: 6
5: 2
6: 1

And the top 3 are a dillion times better than the bottom 3, though episode 6 wasn't aweful.

mrconeman
03-03-2007, 06:16 AM
Factually incorrect.
The original three own the latest three just purely on the basis that Harrison Ford > Fucking everyone.

Paint_It_Black
03-03-2007, 07:51 AM
For fuck sake, don't start debating which ones are best.

H1T_That
03-04-2007, 07:45 AM
1. The Jedis were a bunch of religious fundamentalist nutcases. I mean they were beyond nuts.

I've been saying this since i first saw Star Wars like, 10 years ago.

khaaaaan
03-04-2007, 11:12 AM
In Episode III they used transition effect from Windows Movie Maker every chancethey had.

They did that in every single SW movie.

EDIT: And without starting a debate about the best SW movie I will simply state the fact that ESB was better than RTJ which was better than ANH which was better than ROS which was better than AOC which was waaaaay better than TPM which was horrible pile of steaming buffalo diarea shit in George Lucas' head. But I loved it in '99 when I was 11.

Endymion
03-05-2007, 09:17 AM
more importantly:

kirk vs picard

Paint_It_Black
03-12-2007, 07:15 PM
Sisko.

Hmm, or anyone but Janeway.

ninthlayer
03-13-2007, 04:12 AM
Scott Bakula

Manic Subsidal Boy
03-13-2007, 05:15 AM
For fuck sake, don't start debating which ones are best.

I know eh

10 FUcks

Lodat225
04-05-2007, 08:18 PM
Pfft, posers. I own the Star Wars Holiday Edition.

0r4ng3
04-05-2007, 08:22 PM
You did not just bump this thread just to say that.

I meant that to be an angry sentence, but in the context of the thread it looks like I'm trying the Jedi mind trick.

Wait, Holiday Edition? What's that one like?

Lodat225
04-05-2007, 08:39 PM
I just did. Oh yeah. Didn't know it was old, excuse me. Plus, i find it funny.

It's mind-boggling amazing.

Nina
05-31-2007, 09:32 AM
I have a lot to say, but I cant sort out my thoughts just yet. So I'll start with bits and pieces:



Whatever the case, the important thing to recognize is that the Empire is not committing random acts of terror.


This is how I see it: Lucas is a horrible director and made many mistakes. I think he tried to show the audience that their crimes ARE somewhat random (example to follow) but he did a shitty job and it comes off incorrectly.
One indication for why the Empire commits random acts of terror is the way Darth Vader kills Lieutenant/Captains every time they do something he considers a mistake. Often it's not even their fault. There is no compromise: they'll instantly get executed for it.
I also disagree with the entire paragraph that deals with the elimination of an entire planet. They even kind of say that it's random. They explicitly say in the movie that they chose the planet because they know it's Leia's home planet. How can someone possibly argue that they chose the planet because they might have been weaponed? Okay, they might have, and she might have lied, but that doesnt change the fact that they eliminated the planet because of Leia.

mrconeman
05-31-2007, 04:23 PM
Girls talking knowingly about star wars make me swoon.
/swoon

Andy
05-31-2007, 04:31 PM
You want to be careful there; swooning is bad for the knees.

GBH2
06-13-2007, 06:35 PM
Wait, Holiday Edition? What's that one like?

everyone's decked out in santa hats and they infiltrate the death star while everyone is asleep and leave presents.

wheelchairman
06-14-2007, 03:23 AM
This needs to be debunked!!





This is how I see it: Lucas is a horrible director and made many mistakes. I think he tried to show the audience that their crimes ARE somewhat random (example to follow) but he did a shitty job and it comes off incorrectly.
He's terrible. My parents had some guy visiting that had a script in pre-production actually. (he's a total nerd, we talked on a level about nerdy things that most couldn't follow.) He says the star wars films are guilty of the textbook examples of terrible dialogue.



One indication for why the Empire commits random acts of terror is the way Darth Vader kills Lieutenant/Captains every time they do something he considers a mistake. Often it's not even their fault. There is no compromise: they'll instantly get executed for it.
That's not actually that bad. They are fighting against terrorists and should someone fail it could actually mean that other people will die. This is an intense situation that can room no mistakes. Sure it might not be their fault, but it might be their responsibility. An important difference.



I also disagree with the entire paragraph that deals with the elimination of an entire planet. They even kind of say that it's random. They explicitly say in the movie that they chose the planet because they know it's Leia's home planet. How can someone possibly argue that they chose the planet because they might have been weaponed? Okay, they might have, and she might have lied, but that doesnt change the fact that they eliminated the planet because of Leia.
Well she's a Princess (of this planet) and head of the rebel alliance, you would assume this is where she started and that this is her base.

All About Eve
06-14-2007, 07:30 AM
Actually, Alderaan had done a planetary disarming, and were neutral to both sides for the most part.

/nerd

wheelchairman
06-14-2007, 10:09 AM
Actually, Alderaan had done a planetary disarming, and were neutral to both sides for the most part.

/nerd

Yeah, officially!