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fischer
03-20-2007, 07:43 AM
Have you ever thought that you are a schizophrenic? or something like this. I mean have you ever had any suspicions?

Zeall
03-20-2007, 07:44 AM
Never, i've always been me, it's saddening...

wheelchairman
03-20-2007, 07:47 AM
If I was an undiagnosed schizophren, I don't think I would suspect myself of being the one who is mentally unstable.

Whiplash
03-20-2007, 07:48 AM
No, we never thought about it, But were pretty sure we are ourself.

Edit; BTW, I once saw the coolest T-shirt, on the front it said: I'm a schizofrenic.
And on the back it said: Me to!!

fischer
03-20-2007, 07:53 AM
lol, I want such T-shirt

Llamas
03-20-2007, 07:57 AM
No, we never thought about it, But were pretty sure we are ourself.

Edit; BTW, I once saw the coolest T-shirt, on the front it said: I'm a schizofrenic.
And on the back it said: Me to!!

Isn't that called multiple personality disorder? Schizophrenia is different, I'm pretty sure.

And no, if you have schizophrenia, you can't tell... so it's pretty much impossible to think you're schizophrenic.

fischer
03-20-2007, 08:03 AM
I am bad at medicine, but I think that Schizophrenia isn't the ilness when you feel yourself like two men. This is one of the consequences of schizophrenia, but you can be a schizophrenic without such feeling.

fischer
03-20-2007, 08:05 AM
Isn't that called multiple personality disorder? Schizophrenia is different, I'm pretty sure.

Yes, it's right, the previous answers aren't about this thread.

Llamas
03-20-2007, 08:06 AM
From wiki: Despite its etymology, schizophrenia is not synonymous with dissociative identity disorder, also known as multiple personality disorder or "split personality"; in popular culture the two are often confused.

So that shirt whiplash mentioned doesn't actually make sense.

Whiplash
03-20-2007, 08:08 AM
Isn't that called multiple personality disorder? Schizophrenia is different, I'm pretty sure.

And no, if you have schizophrenia, you can't tell... so it's pretty much impossible to think you're schizophrenic.


I always thought they were the same,schizophrenia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schizophrenia)

fischer
03-20-2007, 08:08 AM
And no, if you have schizophrenia, you can't tell... so it's pretty much impossible to think you're schizophrenic.

Why do you think so?

The Talking Pie
03-20-2007, 08:16 AM
I hate when people mistake schizophrenia for a split-personality disorder. The two have so little to do with each other.

Llamas
03-20-2007, 08:18 AM
Why do you think so?

Because how is it possible to tell you're having delusions? It's a delusion because it's not real but you think it is.

Sin Studly
03-20-2007, 08:27 AM
Have you ever thought that you are a schizophrenic?

I have long suspected that the entire Russian nation suffers from Schizophrenia.

fischer
03-20-2007, 08:30 AM
Because how is it possible to tell you're having delusions? It's a delusion because it's not real but you think it is.

How do you think Schizophrenia is more psychology problem or medicine?

Llamas
03-20-2007, 08:31 AM
Due to the fact that it can't be clinically diagnosed or treated, it's certainly psychological and not medical. Why?

fischer
03-20-2007, 10:43 AM
I think a psychological problems can start schizophrenia, but sometimes this illness can't be torn off from medicine. I think sometimes it has something with an intellectual deviation. I know that schizophrenia can start an intellectual deviation but I don't know if intellectual deviation can start schizophrenia.

RickyCrack
03-20-2007, 11:23 AM
schizophrenia is entirely biological, shut up. It's developed by a defect in the brain which comes from birth and later manifests itself in early adulthood.

fischer
03-20-2007, 11:26 AM
Not in all cases

Maleficent
03-20-2007, 11:30 AM
schizophrenia is entirely biological, shut up. It's developed by a defect in the brain which comes from birth and later manifests itself in early adulthood.

Agreed...


I think a psychological problems can start schizophrenia, but sometimes this illness can't be torn off from medicine. I think sometimes it has something with an intellectual deviation. I know that schizophrenia can start an intellectual deviation but I don't know if intellectual deviation can start schizophrenia.

if you don't have schizophrenia genes, you won't develop it. it can be trigered by somethin, as long as you have the gene


I think it's mixed up with multiple personalities because one of the symptoms is audituve hallucinations (sorry if the term is incorrect...I followed the course in french and had to translate the term...)

as a side not...I though the t-shirt mentionned earlier is hilarious!!

RickyCrack
03-20-2007, 11:30 AM
yes in all cases.

Jakebert
03-20-2007, 01:08 PM
Everything llamas has said is factually true, and fischer is wrong. The only thing I disagree with llamas on is that I do think that it's possible for someone to think they're schizophrenic if they're not. Someone with schizophrenia wouldn't think "hey, maybe I'm schizo", but I do think it's normal for an average person to think that they are.

Blackball_
03-20-2007, 01:09 PM
schizophrenia, like all other mental illnesses, as they are known to us today, are 110% bullshit. its all based on half truths, seems as ifs, sounds about rights, and lies.

not one shred of proof to show that its a legitimate disease, no test for it, and there hasnt been one single cure in the history of psychiatry. its all as unscientific as it gets.

for psychiatrists to call themselves doctors is a fucking disgrace to real practitioners of medicine.

Jakebert
03-20-2007, 01:25 PM
You're really, really stupid. Schizophrenia is not the same as depression or ADD where the line between the illness and someone having a bad day is so thin that people take advantage. I've been around schizophrenic people before, and it's unmistakable.

There are tests, and people know what causes it. Just because there's no way to fix it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. If so, that'd mean that down syndrom and dwarfism don't exist.

You're a fucking idiot.

0r4ng3
03-20-2007, 01:30 PM
You're a fucking idiot.
Yeah, what he said. Sure, there are some mental "diseases" that are totally overdiagnosed, but there are still many that can be proven by a biological change or chemical imbalance, and can be healed or controlled by medicine. Believe it or not, psychiatrists do have a purpose.

fischer
03-20-2007, 01:36 PM
You're a fucking idiot.

If someone aren't right in your opinion (or just aren't right) it doesn't mean that he is an idiot

Jakebert
03-20-2007, 01:39 PM
If someone aren't right in your opinion (or just aren't right) it doesn't mean that he is an idiot

1.) Stop using the "in your opinion" line. It means nothing. People's opinions can be stupid and ignorant, and that's not a valid excuse for saying something dumb.

2.) He's so factually incorrect that there's no way he's not an idiot.

Blackball_
03-20-2007, 01:41 PM
You're really, really stupid. Schizophrenia is not the same as depression or ADD where the line between the illness and someone having a bad day is so thin that people take advantage. I've been around schizophrenic people before, and it's unmistakable.

There are tests, and people know what causes it. Just because there's no way to fix it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. If so, that'd mean that down syndrom and dwarfism don't exist.

You're a fucking idiot.

I know its not the same as depression or ADD, thank you. I too have been around many many differant people with schizophrenia in psychiatric hospital settings.

There are tests, hey? Plural? Show me just 1. I assume by the word tests you mean something irrefutable, like an x-ray would be for a broken limb. Schizophrenia DOES mean there is a physical abnormality, right? Thats whats being sold.

Of course i am not saying it doesnt excist because it hasnt been cured, but schizophrenia is a disorder, downs syndrome is funnily enough a syndrome. Differant, but but a syndrome is not something that is there or able to be cured. Dwarfism is a condition. Also an irrelevent comparison.

No need for the name calling. There are no points to be gained here, just discussion.

0r4ng3, there hasnt been one single cure of a mental illness. Ask any psychiatrist "how many have you cured?", watch them squirm, or lie. If a cure was made, you WOULD hear about it, and the pharmaceutical companys would see their profits go down the drain. It would be akin to curing the common cold. Also as for chemical imbalance, its never been proven, nor has their been any effort made to prove it. It sounds good, poor patients dont know any better, so they leave it at that.

fischer
03-20-2007, 01:45 PM
1.) Stop using the "in your opinion" line. It means nothing. People's opinions can be stupid and ignorant, and that's not a valid excuse for saying something dumb.

2.) He's so factually incorrect that there's no way he's not an idiot.

it's just your opinion that he is an idiot. You said " People's opinions can be stupid and ignorant and ...."

So I don't agree that he's so factually incorrect that there's no way he's not an idiot

0r4ng3
03-20-2007, 01:46 PM
0r4ng3, there hasnt been one single cure of a mental illness. Ask any psychiatrist "how many have you cured?", watch them squirm, or lie.
Yeah, I realized that. That's why I added the "or control" thing to it. With all medicine, cures for stuff are rarely found because that would be money lost if patients no longer had to pay for the medicine.

wheelchairman
03-20-2007, 01:48 PM
Your defence of him does not make him not an idiot. The guy is an idiot, who proves this buy buying into easily swallowed facts with very little basis in actual research. His source is most likely something from a scientologists book.

Furthermore the links in his signature prove he is an idiot, he considers pyramid schemes to be a smart way to make money. How fucking pathetic.

You too are an idiot. Opinions can be wrong when you confuse opinions for things like "beliefs, facts," etc. etc.

His opinion is based on incorrect factual data, making him a moron. You support him making you a moron.

Blackball_
03-20-2007, 01:54 PM
The guy is an idiot, who proves this buy buying into easily swallowed facts with very little basis in actual research. His source is most likely something from a scientologists book.

Furthermore the links in his signature prove he is an idiot, he considers pyramid schemes to be a smart way to make money. How fucking pathetic.
No research? Ive spent many weeks or even months worth researching psychiatry for hobby and personal reasons. Go look it all up for yourself, or retract your "moron" statement and plead ignorance.

Scientologist book? Nope, sorry. I dont follow any religion or cult. Got any new insults??

If you think thats a pyramid scheme, then you dont know how pyramid schemes work.

wheelchairman
03-20-2007, 01:55 PM
I know its not the same as depression or ADD, thank you. I too have been around many many differant people with schizophrenia in psychiatric hospital settings.

There are tests, hey? Plural? Show me just 1. I assume by the word tests you mean something irrefutable, like an x-ray would be for a broken limb. Schizophrenia DOES mean there is a physical abnormality, right? Thats whats being sold.


How would you define a mental disorder (and this is a disorder)? I'm no med student. My guess a mental disorder is defined by it's victims have similar afflictions in behavior and mental stability so as to suggest an underlying common denominator. That would be my guess.

Now does an illness need to have a physical presence to be considered a mental disorder? Again I'm no med student. For a mental disorder, I don't see why a discovered physical problem would need to be present...

However I am no med student, and you certainly are not one either. The laughable assupmtion that we can reject the decades of empirical research in areas we probably wouldn't understand is foolish. You're just some idiot bought off by fancy words and now trying to justify your opinions to other idiots. You have not tried backing a single thing you said.

wheelchairman
03-20-2007, 01:57 PM
No research? Ive spent many weeks or even months worth researching psychiatry for hobby and personal reasons. Go look it all up for yourself, or retract your "moron" statement and plead ignorance.

This is not scientific research. This is personal experience. Invalid.



Scientologist book? Nope, sorry. I dont follow any religion or cult. Got any new insults??
No, I'm grouping you with other nutcases because you're a nutcase.



If you think thats a pyramid scheme, then you dont know how pyramid schemes work.
It's exactly how a pyramid scheme works. None of you do any real work. But you all magically make money by recruiting members below you. Obviously he who makes the most money is the man at the top. And there is no clear reason why everyone would gain profit from it anyways. It's entirely unfeasable, and it's laughable that they have google ads on their site.

fischer
03-20-2007, 02:04 PM
Your defence of him does not make him not an idiot. The guy is an idiot, who proves this buy buying into easily swallowed facts with very little basis in actual research. His source is most likely something from a scientologists book.

Furthermore the links in his signature prove he is an idiot, he considers pyramid schemes to be a smart way to make money. How fucking pathetic.

You too are an idiot. Opinions can be wrong when you confuse opinions for things like "beliefs, facts," etc. etc.

His opinion is based on incorrect factual data, making him a moron. You support him making you a moron.

Firstly, I didn't read his reply, secondly, I didn't pay attention on the links. And at last, your words are out of sense I can also say You are an idiot, but I don't know you and you don't know me well to say such things.

I didn;t read the last replys here I just noticed about an idiot and I don't defence his opinion, I wanna say that only idiots like you can humiliate their opponent in the dispute thinking that they would win by saying this.

Blackball_
03-20-2007, 02:06 PM
How would you define a mental disorder (and this is a disorder)? I'm no med student. My guess a mental disorder is defined by it's victims have similar afflictions in behavior and mental stability so as to suggest an underlying common denominator. That would be my guess.

Now does an illness need to have a physical presence to be considered a mental disorder? Again I'm no med student. For a mental disorder, I don't see why a discovered physical problem would need to be present...

However I am no med student, and you certainly are not one either. The laughable assupmtion that we can reject the decades of empirical research in areas we probably wouldn't understand is foolish. You're just some idiot bought off by fancy words and now trying to justify your opinions to other idiots. You have not tried backing a single thing you said.

Behaviour? Stability? Go outside, is everyone suffering some evil pseudo-illness, or are they just differant? Of course it is the latter.

As for the physical presence, this would come under chemical imbalance. If there was something unique about how their brain restricted, flowed, lacked, balanced, their chemicals, then it would be measurable. They havent measured this on a "sick" OR "healthy" person. How can they define what a chemical imbalance would do? How unbalanced do you need to be? Why would a chemical imbalance cause so many differant illnesses [i think the DMS is up to 200?] How can they therefor sit someone down, talk to them, and without so much as weighing or measuring them, tell them that they have a chemical imbalance in their brain?

Id like to see some empirical research, please. This is the same establishment that used to think you could throw "madness" out of someone by spinning them round for hours and hours.. or that thought the person would snap out of it if they tried to drown them repeatadly. There was no basis behind what they done then, and it would be laughed at now if it wasnt so tragic. History does have a habit of repeating itself under differant packaging.

0r4ng3
03-20-2007, 02:07 PM
...I can also say You are an idiot, but I don't know you and you don't know me well to say such things.

...idiots like you...
I know it's not really relevant to the argument, but still, I just felt like pointing this out.

fischer
03-20-2007, 02:11 PM
I know it's not really relevant to the argument, but still, I just felt like pointing this out.

sorry, I wasn't kept to answer the same....but I know that it's just a words and I don't know him...

JohnnyNemesis
03-20-2007, 02:11 PM
I know it's not really relevant to the argument, but still, I just felt like pointing this out.

It's okay, he's schizophrenic. He believed both things at different times!

Blackball_
03-20-2007, 02:13 PM
This is not scientific research. This is personal experience. Invalid.


No, I'm grouping you with other nutcases because you're a nutcase.


It's exactly how a pyramid scheme works. None of you do any real work. But you all magically make money by recruiting members below you. Obviously he who makes the most money is the man at the top. And there is no clear reason why everyone would gain profit from it anyways. It's entirely unfeasable, and it's laughable that they have google ads on their site.
No, there is no scientific research, and YOU should research into why there isnt any. Ive done it already. I am not here to cite sourses and name names. This is a forum, not a frecking encyclopedia. I am going to post facts and opinions. Which is which is going to be very simple for any intelligent person to seperate.

I am a nutcase in with other nutcases? Thats a pretty big assumption. I hope youre as open minded to new facts as you are with other peoples ideas and beliefs. Somehow I doubt this.

Pyramid schemes, theres an initial outlay. This, there is not. Pyramid schemes, only the top guy gets the money, this, not. I was "involved" in the last one, and no way near any "top", yet I made plenty. Next ??

JohnnyNemesis
03-20-2007, 02:14 PM
I am going to post facts

And we're going to believe that what you're saying is factual...why?

wheelchairman
03-20-2007, 02:16 PM
Behaviour? Stability? Go outside, is everyone suffering some evil pseudo-illness, or are they just differant? Of course it is the latter.
Oh I agree there should be room for the unnormal. However I think it's foolish to assume that mental disorders simply do not exist. The people who go in to seek councilling because of delusional problems should simply be shut away because they are only suffering from "not being normal enough"-disorder?


As for the physical presence, this would come under chemical imbalance. If there was something unique about how their brain restricted, flowed, lacked, balanced, their chemicals, then it would be measurable. They havent measured this on a "sick" OR "healthy" person. How can they define what a chemical imbalance would do? How unbalanced do you need to be? Why would a chemical imbalance cause so many differant illnesses [i think the DMS is up to 200?] How can they therefor sit someone down, talk to them, and without so much as weighing or measuring them, tell them that they have a chemical imbalance in their brain?
I believe diagnosis happens based on the personal experience of the one describing the symptoms and with what the doctor has noticed. You seem to think there is something wrong with this?



Id like to see some empirical research, please. This is the same establishment that used to think you could throw "madness" out of someone by spinning them round for hours and hours.. or that thought the person would snap out of it if they tried to drown them repeatadly. There was no basis behind what they done then, and it would be laughed at now if it wasnt so tragic. History does have a habit of repeating itself under differant packaging.
You seem to think that the treatment of these people is cruel then? As for empirical research, I assume there are several hundred studies on the phenonomen of schizophrenia. Or are you questioning this and that there has never been a study?

I ask you for some some valid data behind your conclusions, you offer personal experience. I ask you for scientific research and you offer nothing. You're an ignorant preaching to the ignorant. This is so pathetic.

wheelchairman
03-20-2007, 02:19 PM
No, there is no scientific research, and YOU should research into why there isnt any. Ive done it already. I am not here to cite sourses and name names. This is a forum, not a frecking encyclopedia. I am going to post facts and opinions. Which is which is going to be very simple for any intelligent person to seperate.
In any discussion with a nature such as this, you need to validate your information. Or else I will say that everything you call "facts" is completely made up bullshit and unscientific. Oh wait.. that's what I'm already doing.



I was "involved" in the last one, and no way near any "top", yet I made plenty. Next ??
Another fact?

Blackball_
03-20-2007, 02:19 PM
And we're going to believe that what you're saying is factual...why?Dont need to. Do or dont. Its no bother to me. I was adding my experience and knowledge to this thread. Like all things in life, take it or leave it. Many unfortunate people seem to think you should take it or ridicule it.

fischer
03-20-2007, 02:20 PM
It's okay, he's schizophrenic. He believed both things at different times!

wow, I am another one, no one hasn't said me before. I know you'll share with me your pills and we'll treat from shizo together. ;)

JohnnyNemesis
03-20-2007, 02:21 PM
Fair point, but...no offense, but why the fuck should we give a shit about what you're saying if it's just a "take it or leave it" situation? When it comes down to facts, believability is a little more important than in another kind of discussion.

Lodat225
03-20-2007, 02:25 PM
No, not really. I don't know anybody who has that really...

Blackball_
03-20-2007, 02:30 PM
Oh I agree there should be room for the unnormal. However I think it's foolish to assume that mental disorders simply do not exist. The people who go in to seek councilling because of delusional problems should simply be shut away because they are only suffering from "not being normal enough"-disorder?


I believe diagnosis happens based on the personal experience of the one describing the symptoms and with what the doctor has noticed. You seem to think there is something wrong with this?


You seem to think that the treatment of these people is cruel then? As for empirical research, I assume there are several hundred studies on the phenonomen of schizophrenia. Or are you questioning this and that there has never been a study?

I ask you for some some valid data behind your conclusions, you offer personal experience. I ask you for scientific research and you offer nothing. You're an ignorant preaching to the ignorant. This is so pathetic.

People should not be shunned away, but if you read diagnostic manuals or guidelines, you would see how utterly vague diagnostic guidelines are. Same person, same list of symptoms, same doctor, differant day.. would likely end up with differant diagnosis. Subjective and entirely dependant on the mood of the dr and influenced by whatever artical he read in a journal that day.

Am i thinking methods to cure or contain by psychiatry is cruel? of course I am. Ever been on SSRIs, anti-psychotics, anticonvulsants or stimulators? Not to mention surgery and electric shock therapy. Cruel isnt even the word. All to treat something they have no proof of existing.

I said it already, I am not here to give you everything you want to know. I already done it for myself, and if you want to debate this properly, then I suggest you should do the same.

I am NOT saying there are people that arent in real distress, as I have seen it on a daily basis. However what we already have in place is by no way ethical, scientific, and the success rate of even recovery is appalling.

I obviously dont have any answers, but to the thread starter: ANYBODY can be diagnosed with ANYTHING at any time.

fischer
03-20-2007, 02:33 PM
Ok, it's time for hospital to close! Stop your discussions! Good bye and see you tomorrow!

Blackball_
03-20-2007, 02:33 PM
Fair point, but...no offense, but why the fuck should we give a shit about what you're saying if it's just a "take it or leave it" situation? When it comes down to facts, believability is a little more important than in another kind of discussion.You dont.. Its kind of simple. I dont particularly care if someone ive never seen met nor conversed with reads, doesnt reads, ridicules, etc. what I am saying. All iam saying is heres what I know.. if youre interested, take it. If youre interested, but dont believe it, go look it up yourself.. if you dont care, fine. I am not losing any sleep over anything.

Blackball_
03-20-2007, 02:36 PM
In any discussion with a nature such as this, you need to validate your information. Or else I will say that everything you call "facts" is completely made up bullshit and unscientific. Oh wait.. that's what I'm already doing.


Another fact?Nature such as this? Didnt realise some members here put such an importance on this place.

As for the last bit, caught any big 'uns recently? You would only be happy with that fact until I showed you a bank statement and 2 forms of ID.

JohnnyNemesis
03-20-2007, 02:37 PM
You dont.. Its kind of simple. I dont particularly care if someone ive never seen met nor conversed with reads, doesnt reads, ridicules, etc.

I understand that and respect it completely.

...it also defeats the purpose of posting in the first place though.

T-6005
03-20-2007, 02:40 PM
Did someone ask for facts? (http://www.offspring.com/forums/showpost.php?p=269200&postcount=1)

Maleficent
03-20-2007, 02:41 PM
I obviously dont have any answers, but to the thread starter: ANYBODY can be diagnosed with ANYTHING at any time.

not true. Some diseases are caused by genes and if you don't have the gene, you're not getting the disease...schizophrenia is one of them. Though if you do have the gene, it can be triggered by anything really...

I have seen (in one of my psychology books) pictures of scans of two different brains - one of a non-schizophrenic person and one of a schizophrenic person....the activity of the brain were clearly different...though one of my friends has my book for the semester and I don't remember which brain had the most acitivity and where...

RickyCrack
03-20-2007, 02:43 PM
I know lots of facts that are liek, "omg mental illnesses exist." So who's facts reign supreme now?

Blackball_
03-20-2007, 02:53 PM
not true. Some diseases are caused by genes and if you don't have the gene, you're not getting the disease...schizophrenia is one of them. Though if you do have the gene, it can be triggered by anything really...

I have seen (in one of my psychology books) pictures of scans of two different brains - one of a non-schizophrenic person and one of a schizophrenic person....the activity of the brain were clearly different...though one of my friends has my book for the semester and I don't remember which brain had the most acitivity and where...I too have seen the scans. What it probably didnt take into account (or atleast advertise) is that the brain with schizophrenia has probably had an intake of medication. The way the medication works, literally, is by killing brain cells, giving you that short happy sort of feeling you get when you drink alcohol. Thus the need to take it a couple of times daily or else youre gonna be on a big downer. I would like to see a scan of a healthy brain, and that of a chronic schizophrenic that hadnt been treated with anything.

As for your first point, psychologists, psychiatrists, etcetera, would all love there to be a gene, else their entire professions would be obsolete. The few studies that have shown their to be a gene have been shown to be weak or flawed, such as not allowing for nature or nurture scenarios.

wheelchairman
03-20-2007, 02:56 PM
I said it already, I am not here to give you everything you want to know. I already done it for myself, and if you want to debate this properly, then I suggest you should do the same.


Here is the crux of your argument. You've done all the research, you just do not wish to back up anything you say, but people should believe you. Your opinion is simply worthless at this point. Not only because you're an idiot, but you don't bother to back up a single thing you say, you just continue to re-iterate the same point. I pity anyone who wastes their time believing you, but there is no more I can do to point out that you have no foundation for your opinions.

Maleficent
03-20-2007, 03:19 PM
The way the medication works, literally, is by killing brain cells, giving you that short happy sort of feeling you get when you drink alcohol. Thus the need to take it a couple of times daily or else youre gonna be on a big downer.

You are confusing depression with schizophrenia...
schizophreniac have too much of one hormone (I forget the name...and I don't want to look like an idiot naming the wrong one) the levels of that same hormone can skyrocket when a person takes cocaine and the likes...(which is why some people turn schizo after abusing those drugs)

as far as the genes thing, well I'm just repeating what I learned in my psychology classes...
so yeah it must be wrong...:D

RickyCrack
03-20-2007, 03:22 PM
I too have seen the scans. What it probably didnt take into account (or atleast advertise) is that the brain with schizophrenia has probably had an intake of medication. The way the medication works, literally, is by killing brain cells, giving you that short happy sort of feeling you get when you drink alcohol. Thus the need to take it a couple of times daily or else youre gonna be on a big downer. I would like to see a scan of a healthy brain, and that of a chronic schizophrenic that hadnt been treated with anything.

As for your first point, psychologists, psychiatrists, etcetera, would all love there to be a gene, else their entire professions would be obsolete. The few studies that have shown their to be a gene have been shown to be weak or flawed, such as not allowing for nature or nurture scenarios.

You're a fucking moron. They way lithium works (the most common medication given to schizophrenics) is by blocking certain hormones which are over abundant in the synapses of the brain. Also lithium helps the brain synapses absorb other hormones produced by the brain which the synapse itself is blocking. Lithium does not kill brain cells.

2ndly the presence of a schizophrenic gene would allow immense cannon fodder for a nature/nurture argument. The fact that a gene would be present in a child to produce schizophrenia would give any B.F. Skinner believer a raging hardon. Also that people with schizophrenia have previous members of the family with the same condition shows that the disease is infact biological. There has not been a recorded case of schizophrenia where the patient's medical history did not contain a series of the disease within the family.

Maleficent
03-20-2007, 03:35 PM
There has not been a recorded case of schizophrenia where the patient's medical history did not contain a series of the disease within the family.

that's what I meant by 'having the gene'
as in genetic...

though...I don't know if they give lithium to schizophrenics? I thought they gave lithium to people with depression...

Whiplash
03-20-2007, 03:36 PM
From wiki:

Lithium salts such as lithium carbonate (Li2CO3), lithium citrate, and lithium orotate are mood stabilizers. They are used in the treatment of bipolar disorder, since unlike most other mood altering drugs, they counteract both mania and depression. Lithium can also be used to augment other antidepressant drugs. It is also sometimes prescribed as a preventive treatment for migraine disease and cluster headaches.

RickyCrack
03-20-2007, 03:57 PM
that's what I meant by 'having the gene'
as in genetic...

though...I don't know if they give lithium to schizophrenics? I thought they gave lithium to people with depression...

It works for both depression and schizophrenia because it balances the amount of hormones through the synapse receptors. Although more commonly used to schizophrenia as it's way more powerful. Depression usually is caused by a minor misbalance, whereas schizophrenia is just hormones gone wild.

I'm sure Bella will know the details, this is just my basic understanding of psychological illnesses.

Maleficent
03-20-2007, 04:00 PM
It works for both depression and schizophrenia because it balances the amount of hormones through the synapse receptors. Although more commonly used to schizophrenia as it's way more powerful. Depression usually is caused by a minor misbalance, whereas schizophrenia is just hormones gone wild.


oh ok! I guess you learn something everyday! :)

Llamas
03-20-2007, 04:21 PM
Blackball, stop it please. Researching psychology for a few WEEKS or MONTHS is nothing. I studied biology/the brain for years and took several courses in psychology. Psychological disorders exist, and it's just plain stupid and ignorant to say that something doesn't exist unless you can see it. I can't see Pluto, but I know it's there. Just shut up already.

Paint_It_Black
03-20-2007, 10:21 PM
I only read the first three pages of this crap and I got to say I'm amazed by the ignorance and stupidity of some people. Yeah, I know, I've been here for years...but still. Good job.

Edit: Now I read all of it. For fuck sake Blackball, shut the fuck up already.

fischer
03-21-2007, 12:09 AM
What do you think about this page (http://schizophreniaforum.org/)

JoY
03-23-2007, 06:24 AM
No, we never thought about it, But were pretty sure we are ourself.

Edit; BTW, I once saw the coolest T-shirt, on the front it said: I'm a schizofrenic.
And on the back it said: Me to!!

that only works for MPD. schizo's don't think they're multiple persons, or whatever everyone always seems to think. logically being multiple characters in one person is called Multiple Personality Disorder (though it's gotten a different name recently). schizo's percieve objects & persons that aren't there from anyone else's viewpoint. so they possibly hear voices, see tables, people, whatever, that isn't really there.

Llamas
03-23-2007, 06:27 AM
that only works for MPD. schizo's don't think they're multiple persons, or whatever everyone always seems to think. logically being multiple characters in one person is called Multiple Personality Disorder (though it's gotten a different name recently). schizo's percieve objects & persons that aren't there from anyone else's viewpoint. so they possibly hear voices, see tables, people, whatever, that isn't really there.

This has already been covered, sweetie. ;)

JoY
03-23-2007, 06:38 AM
schizophrenia, like all other mental illnesses, as they are known to us today, are 110% bullshit. its all based on half truths, seems as ifs, sounds about rights, and lies.

not one shred of proof to show that its a legitimate disease, no test for it, and there hasnt been one single cure in the history of psychiatry. its all as unscientific as it gets.

for psychiatrists to call themselves doctors is a fucking disgrace to real practitioners of medicine.

hahahahaha, what??!

everything proves it's a legitimate disease. the definition of disease is a (physical or mental, if there's even a difference) state, that gets in the way of functioning properly in society. if you don't understand the definion of sickness, health & disease, don't even begin to talk about it.

on a PET scan, you can see very well the fundamental differences in brain activity. the same goes for ADD, which is exactly the same as ADHD, except it expresses itself through mental hyperactivity & not so much physical hyperactivity. so it depends on the person's character how ADHD expresses itself. with schizophrenia you can also see differences in brainstructure.

there's no cure, because we understand only about 10% of all functions of the brain as an organ. we understand there's a default in the brain of schizo's, but we can't fix it yet. but there exists treatment, that is in at least 5% of the cases effective (not much, but it's something) & in 20% of the cases makes it a whole lot better, even possible to live with.


You're really, really stupid. Schizophrenia is not the same as depression or ADD where the line between the illness and someone having a bad day is so thin that people take advantage. I've been around schizophrenic people before, and it's unmistakable.

There are tests, and people know what causes it. Just because there's no way to fix it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. If so, that'd mean that down syndrom and dwarfism don't exist.

You're a fucking idiot.

depression often is a result of dysfunctional neurotransmitters/hormones. just dysfunctional signaling in the brain. that's why there exists treatment on a medical basis in the first place. the same goes for ADHD/ADD, but that I already explained.


Edit; about the PET scan; if medication would influence PET scans, they'd form a control group to make the research valid. medicine = science & one of the first fundamentalistic grounds science rests on, is reliable (specific & sensitive), valid (giving relevant results) research, longitude, with control groups, standardised & double checked. NOTHING is accepted by the scientific world that's called medicine, before it's been researched in a scientific way.

besides that, the medication for schizophrenic patients doesn't influence PET scans, as far as I know. like it matters, because PET scans are now used (in the places where they have PET scans, which unfortunately are rare) to diagnose schizophrenia. yes. diagnose. you don't plug in loads of medication as treatment before setting a fucking diagnosis.

besides that, schizophrenia, ADHD/ADD and depression (depending on the form of depression) are all genetic. meaning that if you have a relative with the disease/disorder, your chances to get it are dramatically increased. a normal person has a chance less than 0.8% of getting schizophrenia. someone with a parent with schizophrenia has a chance that's about 35-40%. this very obviously directs to a real, physical default. for you, who doesn't know how science works, Blackball; that's a significant difference, that's so huge, it can be used as evidence. anywhere in the scientific scene.


also, what RickyCrack said about signaling is overal correct.
signaling anywhere in the body happens through chemicals, either hormones, or neurotransmitters, & their existence, effect, function & possible dysfunction can be traced & registered. basically your whole body is one big bundle of signals (or else not much would function at all), with the brain being it's control room. so yes, besides tumors, bleedings, infections (viral/bacterial) like any other organ could possibly suffer from, the brain has a special list of disorders/diseases, purely caused by defaults in signaling. if you don't get this, or if you deny this.. you've reached the status of being an enormous moron.

JoY
03-23-2007, 06:39 AM
This has already been covered, sweetie. ;)

so I read later on. whoops! & you covered it pretty fucking nicely, chika. but anyway, I hate it when people confuse the two.

Llamas
03-23-2007, 06:49 AM
so I read later on. whoops! & you covered it pretty fucking nicely, chika. but anyway, I hate it when people confuse the two.

It's cool. :) And I also hate it when people confuse them. I really am not even sure why they're so often confused... they're pretty different.

JoY
03-23-2007, 06:59 AM
Jekyll & Hyde = MPD. *love*

I guess people confuse them, because in both cases we're talking about percieving entire personalities that don't really exist. but in MPD it's the person himself, who becomes the other personality, that is percieved by his surrounding, & in schizophrenia it's the patient who percieves the other person as if it's reality, while his surrounding doesn't percieve it. it's either way a dismatch between what the patient percieves & what the surrounding percieves, & both of them involve another person(ality).

Little_Miss_1565
03-23-2007, 07:05 AM
not one shred of proof to show that its a legitimate disease, no test for it, and there hasnt been one single cure in the history of psychiatry. its all as unscientific as it gets.

for psychiatrists to call themselves doctors is a fucking disgrace to real practitioners of medicine.

Blackball, I would really really love to know where you're doing your research. If you were doing this in a college library, I would love to know which college so I can write to the boards asking for their accredation to be revoked. Take a single class in college on psychiatry and mental disorders and you would know that you're factually incorrect. The definition of a disorder does not include the ability to cure it. I have a chronic physical disorder, doesn't mean I'm not in pain 90% of the time because there's no fucking blood test for it. There's no cure for depression, just ways of managing it so people can still function in society. Yet depression still exists. Same with schizophrenia--and for fuck's sake, dude, if you had ever met someone with schizophrenia, you would fucking know it's 100% totally real.


So I don't agree that he's so factually incorrect that there's no way he's not an idiot

There's no way anyone who subscribes to reality would not immediately know that Blackball is 200% factually incorrect. If this were a legal trial, it would be called jury nullification--emotions getting in the way of consideration of facts, and then judgment is made based on emotional rather than considering facts at hand.


]How can they therefor sit someone down, talk to them, and without so much as weighing or measuring them, tell them that they have a chemical imbalance in their brain?

Id like to see some empirical research, please. This is the same establishment that used to think you could throw "madness" out of someone by spinning them round for hours and hours.. or that thought the person would snap out of it if they tried to drown them repeatadly. There was no basis behind what they done then, and it would be laughed at now if it wasnt so tragic. History does have a habit of repeating itself under differant packaging.

It's called a PET scan, as Bella said.

The medical research journals are full of empirical research on schizophrenia and every other mental disorder. Ever tried reading one of those?


Am i thinking methods to cure or contain by psychiatry is cruel? of course I am. Ever been on SSRIs, anti-psychotics, anticonvulsants or stimulators? Not to mention surgery and electric shock therapy. Cruel isnt even the word. All to treat something they have no proof of existing.

I obviously dont have any answers, but to the thread starter: ANYBODY can be diagnosed with ANYTHING at any time.

If I'm not exhibiting the symptoms of dissociative identity disorder, I can't be diagnosed with it. A doctor can come in and tell me I have it all he wants, but he's fucked on the second and even third opinion. So, you are again factually incorrect.

There's not one set of theraputic criteria because we don't understand the brain fully. At least it's better than it was even 50 years ago when doctors just didn't care that they didn't know enough. That medicine's outlook on treating mental patients has changed dramaticaclly over time does not mean the disorders aren't real. Techniques and research change all the time.


I too have seen the scans. What it probably didnt take into account (or atleast advertise) is that the brain with schizophrenia has probably had an intake of medication. The way the medication works, literally, is by killing brain cells, giving you that short happy sort of feeling you get when you drink alcohol. Thus the need to take it a couple of times daily or else youre gonna be on a big downer. I would like to see a scan of a healthy brain, and that of a chronic schizophrenic that hadnt been treated with anything.

See other posts on how meds do not kill brain cells and make you high. A PET scan of a schizophrenic would probably be done when they weren't medicated, or if they were it would be a sedative just to get them to lie still long enough for the scan to be complete, and sedatives don't radically change the chemical makeup of your brain. Schizophrenics are frequently treated with Haldol, and for all the side effects of that drug, patients dont' get addicted to it as you're describing.

Blackball, this entire thread is one big you trying to force the entire world into an extremely narrow point of view. Is it because you can't comprehend it any way outside the narrow area you've definied? Just accept that there's a whole lot of the world that exists outside where you can see and understand right now.

fischer
03-23-2007, 07:09 AM
When I started this thread, I didn't think that it would be "Black Ball against others about Shizophrenia" =))

JoY
03-23-2007, 07:22 AM
you know, some people write/type & think faster than a sentence per five minutes. it helps if you know what you're talking about.

that was in reply to "how much time did it take you to write out that post" in weird English.

the reason I started studying medicine is because I wanted to become a psychiatrist. the more you know about psychiatry, the more it dazzles you. the list of disorders one can have in any organ in the body is huge, but it's split up effectively in another list of specialisations. the brain is the control room of the body with a gigantic amount of "switches", that can be dysfunctional, but only psychiatry as a branche of medicine focusses on that. the consequences are difficult to grasp when one of the many functions the brain has doesn't work as it should. they're huge in comparison, because of the brain's important role in the body.

the most important part about medicine is viewing the brain as an organ as any other. but it's such tricky fucking business, because it's immensely complicated & difficult to know & understand. as I said, we only know about 10% of the brain & already a massive list of diseases, disorders & symptoms have been tracked down & identified in the little thing. I have no idea, the further I get into my studies, if I ever want to set foot in an area that's this unexplored & in which every tiny difference can have huge consequences. I don't know if we even want to identify any more disorders. no matter how many people can be helped by identifying their very real sickness, society maybe should be treated first, before any more diseases/disorders are added to the list. because society fucking sucks when it comes to this aspect & no one could have made that any clearer, than our friend Blackball.

another edit; Blackball, psychiatrists aren't psychiatrists untill they've successfully finished medicine (automatically gives you the title "doctor") & another long specialisation in psychiatry. in the Netherlands it takes upto over 11 years of university to become a psychiatrist.

fischer
03-23-2007, 07:30 AM
thanks, I know;)

goonadie1day
03-23-2007, 08:14 AM
There quite possibly be people on this baord that are skitzophrenic... after all its something like 1:4 have a diagnosed mental disorder and 1:3 have an undiagnosed mental disorder...

Anyways no skitzophrenia is not Multiple personality although is is a disassociative personality disorder... in other words ones mind is not concurrent with the real world.

A LOT of people have a form of DPD ranging from Bipolar Disorder, Body Dismorphic Disorder, Skitzophrenia, and i cant think of anything else right off the top of my head... oh yea... multiple personality disorder....

Anyways... if you have any form of a DPD you wouldn't be able to recognize it as a problem... you would just feel sad and act irrational although you would most likely perceive it as a depressed feeling and everyone ELSE if acting irrational...

fischer
03-23-2007, 08:16 AM
you know, some people write/type & think faster than a sentence per five minutes. it helps if you know what you're talking about.

that was in reply to "how much time did it take you to write out that post" in weird English.

Sarcasm ? No, I don't wanna say anything sarcastic in the answer to you. I am tired of this. Everyone can say what he want in the internet. This hasn't any sense. I can say if you don't like my English shut up, but it would be better to say nothing. ;)

wheelchairman
03-23-2007, 08:17 AM
That's the problem isn't it. If the definition of mental disorder gets as large as to the fact that 1/3 of the population has it, then it's not a disorder. That's so fucking pathetic.

It's like Alcoholics Anonymous making up the definition of alchoholic to include everyone who's ever blacked out while drinking. Hello 90% of all college students.

But you are probably operating on rumor and hearsay anyways.

JoY
03-23-2007, 08:26 AM
goonadie1day; ...you're sharing nothing new at this stage of the conversation.

what's the norm we set for mankind anyway, when everyone's different? what's normal, what's health, what's sickness, when even the definition of death wasn't established untill a few decades ago? when do you properly function in a society & is it even a good thing when you live in a society that's so full of flaws?

anyone & everyone is a potential patient. the status of patient is connected to medicine & doctors, although doctors can just as much be patients as anybody else. people here form a representable group of the world's population. if 1 out of 4 is diagnosed with a psychiatric/psychologic disorder & 1 out of 3 is yet to be diagnosed.. then that's how the world's population these days is. which brings me to the definition of sickness, illness, disease & health & the sickness, illness, disease & health of this society. it's a repetive circle that'll never end.

JoY
03-23-2007, 08:35 AM
That's the problem isn't it. If the definition of mental disorder gets as large as to the fact that 1/3 of the population has it, then it's not a disorder. That's so fucking pathetic.

It's like Alcoholics Anonymous making up the definition of alchoholic to include everyone who's ever blacked out while drinking. Hello 90% of all college students.

But you are probably operating on rumor and hearsay anyways.

that also has to do with the ways it is diagnosed, obviously.

if you look into empirical research & the sensitivity (people who have the disorder & are diagnosed as having the disorder) vs. specificness (people who don't have the disorder & who are diagnosed as not having the disorder), you'll find that not a single scientific test, no matter how well developed & based on facts, is 100% sensitive & 100% specific. a test that's 100% sensitive & 50% specific would identify a lot more people with the disease/disorder, than there actually, factually are. even tests for cancer don't reach a percentage that could give a 100% certaincy on the question if you have cancer, or not. it's all fucking statistics.

focussing on improving tests/research would be a good idea, but that's accompanied by exactly identifying the causes & consequences on a miniscule level of every disorder/disease, or else you can't develop a test of such a level of reliability.

Little_Miss_1565
03-23-2007, 12:49 PM
1 in 3 or 1 in 4 people having some kind of psychiatric disorder doesn't mean that they all have the same one, so no reason to get up in arms. Schizophrenia is still relatively rare. Get upset about the overdiagnosis of ADD/ADHD.

wheelchairman
03-23-2007, 01:15 PM
Nah, I just don't believe that 25-33% of the population have psychotic disorders. That's as likely as 50% of kids having ADD.

goonadie1day
03-23-2007, 03:11 PM
1 in 3 or 1 in 4 people having some kind of psychiatric disorder doesn't mean that they all have the same one, so no reason to get up in arms. Schizophrenia is still relatively rare. Get upset about the overdiagnosis of ADD/ADHD.


Nah, I just don't believe that 25-33% of the population have psychotic disorders. That's as likely as 50% of kids having ADD.

Those 1:4 diagnosed are typically diagnosed with DEPRESSION... its that common. Im not talking about the things like skitzophrenia...

also typically the most commonly undiagnosed mental health issue... DEPRESSION or Post partum depression....

and yes i agree with the abusive over diagnosis of add/adhd

Little_Miss_1565
03-23-2007, 03:18 PM
Nah, I just don't believe that 25-33% of the population have psychotic disorders. That's as likely as 50% of kids having ADD.

In America? Believe it.

goonadie1day
03-23-2007, 03:28 PM
In America? Believe it.

Isnt that kind of sad and fucked up? I mean there are SO MANY PROBLEMS IN AMERICA and everyone is like... idono even know how to say what i want to say!:mad: :(

RickyCrack
03-23-2007, 03:34 PM
One in four people also have an STD, so therefore statistically only 1 out of 3 people dosn't have a mental disorder or a burnination in their urethra?

goonadie1day
03-23-2007, 04:43 PM
One in four people also have an STD, so therefore statistically only 1 out of 3 people dosn't have a mental disorder or a burnination in their urethra?

HAHAHA

Im pretty sure im goona prefer the mental disorder over and incurable std.

I would rather be suffering and not know any better... than fucking itching my va-jayjay all the damn day long!

JoY
03-23-2007, 04:49 PM
Isnt that kind of sad and fucked up? I mean there are SO MANY PROBLEMS IN AMERICA and everyone is like... idono even know how to say what i want to say!:mad: :(

Americans make their own problems. can't handle a child, it's whining & superactive & it wants to play with you when you don't feel like horseback riding? there you go, it must be ADHD.

it's estimated by world wide psychiatry, that 1 out of 15 children/adults has got ADHD. in America, 1 out of 5 children is diagnosed with it. all at a young age. in the Netherlands 1 out of 30 is diagnosed with it, most of them at a later age, because ADHD didn't even exist here until recently.

JoY
03-23-2007, 04:53 PM
HAHAHA

Im pretty sure im goona prefer the mental disorder over and incurable std.

I would rather be suffering and not know any better... than fucking itching my va-jayjay all the damn day long!

you don't realise the chronic character & constant dismatch with society, the feelings of insecurity, low self esteem & depression that can come of that, do you?

goonadie1day
03-23-2007, 04:59 PM
you don't realise the chronic character & constant dismatch with society, the feelings of insecurity, low self esteem & depression that can come of that, do you?

Yes i do. I suffer from BiPolar disorder and chronic depression. I would rather deal with what i've got then get a fucking std...


Americans make their own problems. can't handle a child, it's whining & superactive & it wants to play with you when you don't feel like horseback riding? there you go, it must be ADHD.

it's estimated by world wide psychiatry, that 1 out of 15 children/adults has got ADHD. in America, 1 out of 5 children is diagnosed with it. all at a young age. in the Netherlands 1 out of 30 is diagnosed with it, most of them at a later age, because ADHD didn't even exist here until recently.


Oh i totally agree with you there. It makes me very sad to think how many kids are fucked up in the head because they have abondonment issues because there parents didnt want to deal with them and their 'kidness' I mean thats what they are calling ADD/ADHD... its just a child being a child... most of the time. Now i will admit i know ONE person who truly has ADHD and he is like... whoa holy mother of god loud and insane and just he doesnt get it... unless he is on medication... and then he acts more reserved and controlled... ya know?

wheelchairman
03-23-2007, 05:20 PM
In America? Believe it.

Hardly. I've lived there too as you might recall. It's just some pitiful (in the literal, original sense of the word) form of individualism.

JoY
03-24-2007, 02:48 AM
Yes i do. I suffer from BiPolar disorder and chronic depression. I would rather deal with what i've got then get a fucking std...

Oh i totally agree with you there. It makes me very sad to think how many kids are fucked up in the head because they have abondonment issues because there parents didnt want to deal with them and their 'kidness' I mean thats what they are calling ADD/ADHD... its just a child being a child... most of the time. Now i will admit i know ONE person who truly has ADHD and he is like... whoa holy mother of god loud and insane and just he doesnt get it... unless he is on medication... and then he acts more reserved and controlled... ya know?

most STD's are curable, if you discover them in time. HIV, herpes & HPV are kind of exceptions. & then there's hepatitis B. at least you can avoid them by safe sex & being careful who you shag with. the annoying thing is that you're double screwed when you get an STD. by the person you got it from & by the fact you've got an STD. & your own contribution to getting a STD is unmistakeble. I imagine that taking responsibility for your own behavior & consequences must be a total bitch.

mental disorders have a multicausal background most of the times. a lot of the times there's a predisposition & then all it needs is an optional trigger. there isn't always a predisposition, though. anyway, you can avoid things that increase the chance of triggering a mental disorder, like certain psychoactive drugs, addictive substances & even mindgames.

if you can control a mental disorder with medication, you're unfortunately one of the lucky ones. if you can step away from your own contribution to your own disease & the things you can control, but that take more effort than in a normal situation, drop all responsibility on a supposed predisposition, your medication, treatment & doctor... then I imagine you could live without feelings of guilt & stupidity/responsibility for your behavior, which would possibly possitively effect your self esteem.

but it'd also prevent you from putting work & effort into living with it, dealing with it, functioning with it & basically improving yourself. because hey, you can't help it, right? if you blame everything that's worsened by your disorder fully on your disorder, then you're denying the control you have over yourself. which would probably.. negatively effect your self esteem. & in the mean time your functioning wouldn't improve in any way.
I couldn't imagine a worse feeling than laying your whole character, behavior, personality, responsibility in the hands of a disorder you happen to have. like you are nothing but the disorder & don't have a character, personality of your own & can't control yourself. it'd only emphasise your symptoms & problems, & you would welcome them with open arms, because you are the disorder & the disorder is you & there's nothing you can do about it.

if you're the type of person that would rather feel helpless, than taking responsibility for all the things you do more or less control, then I feel as sorry for you, as you feel for yourself. aww.

Duskygrin
03-24-2007, 09:46 AM
There's a greek song called schizophrenia. I remember it like the plague.

goonadie1day
03-24-2007, 04:27 PM
most STD's are curable, if you discover them in time. HIV, herpes & HPV are kind of exceptions. & then there's hepatitis B. at least you can avoid them by safe sex & being careful who you shag with. the annoying thing is that you're double screwed when you get an STD. by the person you got it from & by the fact you've got an STD. & your own contribution to getting a STD is unmistakeble. I imagine that taking responsibility for your own behavior & consequences must be a total bitch.

mental disorders have a multicausal background most of the times. a lot of the times there's a predisposition & then all it needs is an optional trigger. there isn't always a predisposition, though. anyway, you can avoid things that increase the chance of triggering a mental disorder, like certain psychoactive drugs, addictive substances & even mindgames.

if you can control a mental disorder with medication, you're unfortunately one of the lucky ones. if you can step away from your own contribution to your own disease & the things you can control, but that take more effort than in a normal situation, drop all responsibility on a supposed predisposition, your medication, treatment & doctor... then I imagine you could live without feelings of guilt & stupidity/responsibility for your behavior, which would possibly possitively effect your self esteem.

but it'd also prevent you from putting work & effort into living with it, dealing with it, functioning with it & basically improving yourself. because hey, you can't help it, right? if you blame everything that's worsened by your disorder fully on your disorder, then you're denying the control you have over yourself. which would probably.. negatively effect your self esteem. & in the mean time your functioning wouldn't improve in any way.
I couldn't imagine a worse feeling than laying your whole character, behavior, personality, responsibility in the hands of a disorder you happen to have. like you are nothing but the disorder & don't have a character, personality of your own & can't control yourself. it'd only emphasise your symptoms & problems, & you would welcome them with open arms, because you are the disorder & the disorder is you & there's nothing you can do about it.

if you're the type of person that would rather feel helpless, than taking responsibility for all the things you do more or less control, then I feel as sorry for you, as you feel for yourself. aww.

Thats not what i mean though. I dont feel helpless. My disorder is controllable, yes it stinks somethimes because you get these spurts of feeling helpless but there isnt a person alive who at one point in there life wont feel that way.

I dont think its possible for me to blame me being bipolar/depressed on anyone. It happend a really long time ago (when i was diagnosed). Its not like i go around wallowing in self-pity... because i dont. Its just i know what being bipolar is like. For me is has been able to be controlled with minimal medication and counselling.

I say i would rather have this because i know what to expect and how to control it and what i need to avoid doing that can trigger me. However i wouldnt want to trade my disorder/disease for another one... because that would mean that i would have to learn how to control it. Ok so made i shouldnt have specifically said an STD... its just that was the example given.

Mental disorders in a lot of cases are controllable if diagnosed properly. Its the same with all disorders and diseases.

Would you rather have what you know and are familiar with or something foreign and unknown to you?!

JoY
03-24-2007, 07:31 PM
*shrugs* once you're diagnosed with whatever, it's no longer unknown. there's enough information floating around on about anything you need to know & if it's not at hand, you just buy yourself a freakin' book. in the case of STDs the origin is relatively pretty fucking easy to figure out. anyway, comparing the problems, symptoms & treatment that come with any STD to a mental disorder, especially on an individual level, is like comparing trousers to peanutbutter. comparing any disease to another & the individual consequences is nuts anyway.

you don't really seem to realise how lucky you are, that in your case your problem is under control & can be controled with medication. the cause behind problems like insomnia, depression, things like that is hard to figure out & that makes those problems incredibly difficult to treat effectively. like, more often they just try jazz on you & see if it works & that kinda functions as a tool to diagnose the exact problem with. if it works, then the problem lies in those chemicals that you take extra doses of. if nothing works, then the risk exists you'll get overmedicated & end up being a drugstore on legs.

if you would realise we know only about 10% of the brain, you would understand that there are more disorders/diseases that house in the mind that we don't understand, than we do understand. that leaves a LOT of people, who can't be fully treated effectively & who will always feel misplaced, lonely, misunderstood & isolated. & not until you're diagnosed with something, you can't really be tagged as sick, because the sickness is unknown. that's why there are so many container terms in medicine floating around, grouping people together with similar symptoms, desperately attempting to grasp the individual background of their problems.

goonadie1day
03-24-2007, 10:17 PM
I dont think i clearly stated my point to you.

I should not have generalized it to std's. I would rather have my disorders... because i know how to treat them. I know what to expect. And further more i fully realize the power/effect of my medications and disorders.

Yes i do comprehend that their are a lot of undiagnosed mental disorders. I have been to support groups and such. It varies with everyone. I do realize how fortunant i have been to be able to be treated with minimal medication.

Anyways i think we should agree to disagree... i dont feel like arguing/speaking about mental disorders or any other diseases. Because you know what... disorders/diseases vary in everyone. It effects us all differently. One cant be generalized as the worst... i guess is my point!

JoY
03-25-2007, 05:52 AM
Anyways i think we should agree to disagree... i dont feel like arguing/speaking about mental disorders or any other diseases. Because you know what... disorders/diseases vary in everyone. It effects us all differently. One cant be generalized as the worst... i guess is my point!

apparently we agree on that, because I'd already made that point.