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goonadie1day
03-24-2007, 11:12 PM
I think this is really really really... sad. But i was watching HBO and this show came on and its about a brothel in Nevada (USA) and well the moral of the story...

prostitution is legal in Nevada.

What is your opinion on this?!

- -Lauren- -
03-24-2007, 11:17 PM
Well for some people, it's the only way to make money. It's a personal choice. That's how I see it.

JohnnyNemesis
03-24-2007, 11:21 PM
This is kind of common knowledge. It's not all bad, but there are often problems with the way it works and the factors that lead to women going into prostitution.

Rag Doll
03-24-2007, 11:28 PM
It's a personal choice.

Disagree.

Anyways, I'm against it being legal.

goonadie1day
03-24-2007, 11:28 PM
Well i mean i have lived in Idaho... but i never knew that prostitution was legal in Nevada.
(i should specify less than an hour from Jackpot NV)

I have read a bunch of stuff and the thing that strikes me as odd is this:

The circumstances in which prostitution is legal is kind of a catch 22. In a brothel you have to pay half of your money to the house, and pay room and board. Plus you have to pay for weekly std test (which im not objecting to) it just seems that the girls like... loose a lot of their money before its even theirs... and they have to pay taxes on top of that...

but i suppose it cant be that bad if a typical working girl makes typically 200,000 +

- -Lauren- -
03-24-2007, 11:36 PM
Disagree.


However, I do see how you disagree, as it is a pretty controversial topic. I didn't think it through. Girls easily can be forced into it.

JohnnyNemesis
03-24-2007, 11:38 PM
Of course, to some degree it is a personal choice, but with situations like this you have to look at the way people operate within a larger society. Is it really a completely individual thing? Is that even possible?

Most people would respond to those questions with "of course". They're wrong. Like I said, it's all personal to some degree, but never completely. Basically, I agree with Sam 100% as always.

Izie
03-25-2007, 12:25 AM
50$ extra for anal.

Endymion
03-25-2007, 01:25 AM
i think it's a horrid practice, but it shouldn't be the government's place to outlaw it.

Paint_It_Black
03-25-2007, 01:55 AM
Make money money, make money money.

They need to bring back Isabella Soprano. And someone needs to shoot Air Force Amy in the face. Uh, with a gun.

By the way, the show you're talking about is called Cathouse and showcases the Moonlight Bunny Ranch, owned by Dennis Hof. He's basically a sleazy, creepy version of Hugh Hefner, without the lovable grandfatherly charm. You know how in gangster movies you sometimes have the boss who seems friendly and kind but all your instincts tell you he's a psychopath? For me, that's Dennis Hof.

Anyway, fact is prostitution has been around forever and will be around forever. This basically makes the boring moral debate surrounding the issue null and void. Legalize it, regulate it, tax it.

And that show is pretty entertaining.

So where's preoccupado been lately?

JoY
03-25-2007, 05:01 AM
prostitution is legal in Nevada.

What is your opinion on this?!

...I'm from the Netherlands/Amsterdam.


& no matter how you feel about sex for sale, to pimps & hookers it's just normal every day business. the fact it's legal in my country, doesn't mean I should either become a whore or pimp, or should shag a prostitute. dude, it's definitely not for me, but for those who are in the business, I'm just fuckingly thankful it's legal here, which allows them to work under clean, safe circumstances; the women are protected against STDs, violence, rape, et cetera, & they have an actual workplace that isn't the street. you can't just import your women & put them behind the window in the red light district, because it's an actual occupation, being a prostitute. it's in every single way better.

JoY
03-25-2007, 05:04 AM
& for a lot of women it's not exactly a choice, by the way. legal, or illegal, it never fucking is. the large majority of women don't grow up, telling their mommies; "when I grow up, I wanna be a whore". there's a large group of single mothers without a single form of education, for instance, who need easy cash & it definitely makes more than working behind a counter in McDonald's.

JohnnyNemesis
03-25-2007, 08:07 AM
So where's preoccupado been lately?

I like you, Richard. A lot.

wheelchairman
03-25-2007, 08:18 AM
Yeah I guess the voices of reason have spoken. Outlawing it doesn't get rid of it, it just forces it underground. You can make things safer by having it legal and under government regulation.

And personally the issue doesn't stir me at all. I hate the people who percieve prostitutes as victims when prostitutes don't themselves see it that way. Help the people who want to be helped.

Obviously not talking about trading in women and sex slavery.

Llamas
03-25-2007, 08:18 AM
Richard's comment was actually my first thought upon seeing this thread... at first, I thought the old thread had just been resurrected. He should be here to spice up this thread a bit.

Llamas
03-25-2007, 08:20 AM
And personally the issue doesn't stir me at all. I hate the people who percieve prostitutes as victims when prostitutes don't themselves see it that way. Help the people who want to be helped.

Drug addicts and alcoholics often don't want to be helped. I'm not saying that I think your whole opinion is wrong, but I think that's bad reasoning.

wheelchairman
03-25-2007, 08:25 AM
Drug addicts and alcoholics often don't want to be helped. I'm not saying that I think your whole opinion is wrong, but I think that's bad reasoning.

Right but these aren't addicts to prostitution... My reasoning is thus fine...

Llamas
03-25-2007, 08:27 AM
They might be. People can be addicted to sex.

wheelchairman
03-25-2007, 08:35 AM
They might be. People can be addicted to sex.

Oh right excuse me. I forgot the moral issue to prostitution was that they were all horrible horrible sex addicts. These people just couldn't get there fix on sex, and had to sell sex in order to get more sex. sex. It even went so far as prostituion in order to get sex.

Sin Studly
03-25-2007, 08:55 AM
I still can't believe it's illegal everywhere else in America. You pack of vaginated puritans, next you'll be telling me casinos are illegal outside Nevada too.

goonadie1day
03-25-2007, 11:22 AM
50$ extra for anal.
o.o hahahah


Make money money, make money money.

They need to bring back Isabella Soprano. And someone needs to shoot Air Force Amy in the face. Uh, with a gun.

By the way, the show you're talking about is called Cathouse and showcases the Moonlight Bunny Ranch, owned by Dennis Hof. He's basically a sleazy, creepy version of Hugh Hefner, without the lovable grandfatherly charm. You know how in gangster movies you sometimes have the boss who seems friendly and kind but all your instincts tell you he's a psychopath? For me, that's Dennis Hof.

Anyway, fact is prostitution has been around forever and will be around forever. This basically makes the boring moral debate surrounding the issue null and void. Legalize it, regulate it, tax it.

And that show is pretty entertaining.

So where's preoccupado been lately?

Yes i do realize its called Cathouse... Dennis is a creep. I have HBO on demand so i watched all the old episodes....

Isabella Soprano is /retired/ and Air Force Amy is old and needs to /retire/ there was a Tyra Banks show about the cathouse... and she said she has slept with around ////20,000/// men o.O


& for a lot of women it's not exactly a choice, by the way. legal, or illegal, it never fucking is. the large majority of women don't grow up, telling their mommies; "when I grow up, I wanna be a whore". there's a large group of single mothers without a single form of education, for instance, who need easy cash & it definitely makes more than working behind a counter in McDonald's.

There is one lady who has retired since the show... Shelly Dushell who had a masters degree in politacal science and was also a realtor (sp?) I dont get that... there are other ways to make $$$$


I still can't believe it's illegal everywhere else in America. You pack of vaginated puritans, next you'll be telling me casinos are illegal outside Nevada too.

Ya know what. America in general is a buncha tight-asses. Nebraska was going to legalize gambling in our state... but lost by a few thousand votes. Which is gay... because Omaha is the biggest city here and part of Omaha is in Iowa and they call in 'Council Bluffs' and there are a shitton of casinoes there... and the parking lots are full on NEBRASKA license plates..... our state sucks some major ASS!

wheelchairman
03-25-2007, 11:38 AM
Ya know what. America in general is a buncha tight-asses. Nebraska was going to legalize gambling in our state... but lost by a few thousand votes. Which is gay... because Omaha is the biggest city here and part of Omaha is in Iowa and they call in 'Council Bluffs' and there are a shitton of casinoes there... and the parking lots are full on NEBRASKA license plates..... our state sucks some major ASS!

Did anyone understand any of this?

JohnnyNemesis
03-25-2007, 11:40 AM
Did anyone understand any of this?

I wish I hadn't.

Llamas
03-25-2007, 11:40 AM
It might have been easier to have said, "People from Nebraska drive to Iowa to gamble, because it's legal in Iowa". Or, at least I think that's what she meant...? English would help.

RickyCrack
03-25-2007, 11:41 AM
Did anyone understand any of this?

Gambling is not allowed in Nebraska, also women are not allowed outside after nightfall, and Young Goodman Brown just left for a hike into the forest.

Llamas
03-25-2007, 11:43 AM
rickycrack's post > my post. :(

goonadie1day
03-25-2007, 11:51 AM
Gambling is not allowed in Nebraska, also women are not allowed outside after nightfall, and Young Goodman Brown just left for a hike into the forest.

O.o ya know what... its Nebraksa i wouldnt be suprised if they passed that into state legistlature.

My state has had the most laws deemed unconstitutional by the Supreme court.


**Another Note** Im sorry im very bad at verbalizing my thoughts... so meh... you have to take that into consideration when reading my post!

Sin Studly
03-25-2007, 12:03 PM
**Another Note** Im sorry im very bad at verbalizing my thoughts... so meh... you have to take that into consideration when reading my post!

Yes, I always take somebodies verbal skills into account when reading what they've written.

Fucking idiot.

goonadie1day
03-25-2007, 12:06 PM
Yes, I always take somebodies verbal skills into account when reading what they've written.

Fucking idiot.

OMFG come the fuck on... i mean typing/verbalizing in GENERAL... fuck off

Whiplash
03-25-2007, 12:08 PM
OMFG come the fuck on... i mean typing/verbalizing in GENERAL... fuck off

Don't you mean OMFD??

Llamas
03-25-2007, 12:14 PM
OMFG come the fuck on... i mean typing/verbalizing in GENERAL... fuck off

Why do you post here in the off topic section?

Sin Studly
03-25-2007, 12:14 PM
OMFG come the fuck on... i mean typing/verbalizing in GENERAL... fuck off

Hint ; you have no fucking clue what the word "verbal" means.

Whiplash
03-25-2007, 12:27 PM
Seriously how the hell can you verbalize something on a forum.

goonadie1day
03-25-2007, 12:29 PM
Don't you mean OMFD??
Yes i mean O MY FUCKING DEXTER >.<

Why do you post here in the off topic section?

Because notice this topic is about prostitution... not about the Offspring?!



__________-back on topic-_____________
I think if prostitution was legalized nationally it would cut down on STD's because mandatory testing... ya kno?

Llamas
03-25-2007, 12:31 PM
Because notice this topic is about prostitution... not about the Offspring?!

No, I didn't ask why you posted THIS THREAD in the off topic section... I asked why you post here at all.

goonadie1day
03-25-2007, 12:35 PM
Because... i do. Because i like The Offspring... and so i post here. Do you have a problem?

Whiplash
03-25-2007, 12:37 PM
Then go post in the on topic section, thats her entire point.

JohnnyNemesis
03-25-2007, 12:38 PM
Unless this cat fight is gonna end in some nudity, I'd suggest cutting it short.

Whiplash
03-25-2007, 12:40 PM
Unless this cat fight is gonna end in some nudity, I'd suggest cutting it short.


I'd make some pictures for you but my camera is broken.........o wait you mean the two girls.....

Llamas
03-25-2007, 12:42 PM
Because... i do. Because i like The Offspring... and so i post here. Do you have a problem?

No problem. I was asking why you post in the off-topic section.. because the off-topic section isn't about the offspring... you either can't figure out what it means, or you're avoiding it... since I've asked three times and you still haven't answered my question.

wheelchairman
03-25-2007, 12:43 PM
No problem. I was asking why you post in the off-topic section.. because the off-topic section isn't about the offspring... you either can't figure out what it means, or you're avoiding it... since I've asked three times and you still haven't answered my question.

Because this is a non-offspring related thread and she can post that here if she wants to. Quit being a bitch.

Sin Studly
03-25-2007, 12:48 PM
I think if prostitution was legalized nationally it would cut down on STD's because mandatory testing... ya kno?

No, I don't kno. Legalised prostitution brothels generally have very high standards of girls, and high prices to cover the medical tests, paychecks, cleaning products, land rental, taxes, contraceptives, etc. etc. $1,000 a trick is not uncommon. The type of girls who work legally would generally not be on the game at all if prostitution was illegal ; and if they were, they'd be working in upscale illegal escort services which kept only clean girls because their business thrived on their good reputation.

Meanwhile, there's still plenty of cheap illegal street whores turning tricks to get their next fix of meth and spreading the pox all over the place.

Rag Doll
03-25-2007, 12:50 PM
I think if prostitution was legalized nationally it would cut down on STD's because mandatory testing... ya kno?

Do you mean STDs in the general public? Or just among pros?

I don't think it would do much for the general public overall. In order to do that, schools need to teach safe sex...amongst other things.

goonadie1day
03-25-2007, 01:02 PM
Do you mean STDs in the general public? Or just among pros?

I don't think it would do much for the general public overall. In order to do that, schools need to teach safe sex...amongst other things.

Well i totally agree with you. What is this bullshit about teaching abstinance? O.o are they aware of what high schoolers do with each other? Anyways i know that not all teenagers mess around... its just that teaching safe sex would benefit those who do. It would cut down the rate of teen pregnancy and std's in general.

I think it would cut down std's everywhere... because one hooker with an std who doesnt use protection can spread it to all her tricks/johns and they take it where? To the gen. public or back home to their wifes.


No, I don't kno. Legalised prostitution brothels generally have very high standards of girls, and high prices to cover the medical tests, paychecks, cleaning products, land rental, taxes, contraceptives, etc. etc. $1,000 a trick is not uncommon. The type of girls who work legally would generally not be on the game at all if prostitution was illegal ; and if they were, they'd be working in upscale illegal escort services which kept only clean girls because their business thrived on their good reputation.

Meanwhile, there's still plenty of cheap illegal street whores turning tricks to get their next fix of meth and spreading the pox all over the place.

o.O ok what i mean... is that if prostitution was legal... in all 50 states... then that would force those little crack junkies on the corner to loose most of their cliental. I mean think like this... would you rather go to a legal brothel where you know that girls are clean or are you going to get a blow job from this:
http://www.estatevaults.com/bol/images/%20%20before%20and%20after.jpg
*not saying you are the kind who buys hookers...

Because this is a non-offspring related thread and she can post that here if she wants to. Quit being a bitch.
XD

No problem. I was asking why you post in the off-topic section.. because the off-topic section isn't about the offspring... you either can't figure out what it means, or you're avoiding it... since I've asked three times and you still haven't answered my question.

Because i can... and you making it obvious that is pisses you off gives me more insentive. MMK!?

Sin Studly
03-25-2007, 01:04 PM
o.O ok what i mean... is that if prostitution was legal... in all 50 states... then that would force those little crack junkies on the corner to loose most of their cliental. I mean think like this... would you rather go to a legal brothel where you know that girls are clean or are you going to get a blow job from this:

And think like this. Legal brothel = $400-$2000

Blow job on the corner = $25

No, they won't take away their clientele.

JohnnyNemesis
03-25-2007, 01:05 PM
would you rather go to a legal brothel where you know that girls are clean or are you going to get a blow job from this

The problem is that 99% of people are gonna say "whichever I can afford"...which would be the corner, not the legal brothel.

HornyPope
03-25-2007, 01:18 PM
I believe the correct term is "sex workers".

0r4ng3
03-25-2007, 04:16 PM
It took every ounce of my will to avoid making a "white collar workers" joke.

Lodat225
03-25-2007, 04:23 PM
Suck a cheetas dick!

goonadie1day
03-25-2007, 04:55 PM
It took every ounce of my will to avoid making a "white collar workers" joke.

what stopped you?

Llamas
03-25-2007, 04:57 PM
Every ounce of his will...

Paint_It_Black
03-25-2007, 07:26 PM
I like you, Richard. A lot.

You like everyone a lot, you slut. But ok, let's do it. Be gentle though, I haven't even been with a black woman before.



And personally the issue doesn't stir me at all. I hate the people who percieve prostitutes as victims when prostitutes don't themselves see it that way. Help the people who want to be helped.

Exactamundo dude.


there was a Tyra Banks show about the cathouse

Yeah I saw it, it was hilarious. A model acting all superior to a bunch of whores. By the way, the women that work there are always going in and out of "retirement" or "vacation". It doesn't really mean anything. They'll come back when they want to earn loads more easy cash.

goonadie1day
03-25-2007, 07:42 PM
Yeah I saw it, it was hilarious. A model acting all superior to a bunch of whores. By the way, the women that work there are always going in and out of "retirement" or "vacation". It doesn't really mean anything. They'll come back when they want to earn loads more easy cash.

Yea... i dont get how people could do that though ya know? I mean it bothers me that they on average have 8 'parties' a day... and work for months at a time... thats.... um... alot of sex.

And yea.. some of the creepy people... could you imagine?

And Dennis Hof is like disgustingly sleezy makes me sick to think those girls *fight* for his attention... ew ew ew!

Paint_It_Black
03-25-2007, 09:59 PM
Yea... i dont get how people could do that though ya know? I mean it bothers me that they on average have 8 'parties' a day... and work for months at a time... thats.... um... alot of sex.


Yeah...I don't get how people can flip burgers for minimum wage, ya know? I mean it bothers me that I know people who work 60 or more hours a week just to keep living in a shitty apartment and keep their piece of crap car barely running.

I'd...um...rather be having a lot of sex.

And making shitloads of money.

T-6005
03-25-2007, 10:06 PM
This thread is gay.

calichix
03-27-2007, 05:50 AM
I just got back from Amsterdam and I didn't feel so safe anywhere as I did in the Red Light District. Rape wouldn't be as big an issue if sex was always available. I'm all for it. There are farrrrrr worse ways of making money than legal prostitution.

Little_Miss_1565
03-27-2007, 05:57 AM
Rape wouldn't be as big an issue if sex was always available.

Point of order: rape isn't about sex and the lack of it.

calichix
03-27-2007, 06:34 AM
I beg to differ! yeah, rape is about power etc. etc.. still, there would be a drastic decrease in it if prostitution was approached as business everywhere.

Llamas
03-27-2007, 06:35 AM
I've never seen any statistics proving that rape happens less in places where prostitution is legal... I'm pretty sure the numbers are about the same.

Zeall
03-27-2007, 06:41 AM
One would assume that because there are more prostitutes that there would be less rape because sex would be much easier get which is a good theory, but it could also be argued that because there are more girls out there, in the rapists mind the police would have a hard time tracking down "just another prostitute" if you understand where i'm coming from

both sides of the discussion raise good points and are very arguable indeed

Whiplash
03-27-2007, 06:43 AM
Why would they wanne track down the prostitute? It's most likelly she's the one who reported it to the police, They wanne track down the rapist.

Zeall
03-27-2007, 06:46 AM
Why would they wanne track down the prostitute? It's most likelly she's the one who reported it to the police, They wanne track down the rapist.

well, i just thought that there might be lots of reported cases of rape/abuse etc. too much for the oplice to handle

Whiplash
03-27-2007, 06:49 AM
Not that i know of, at least not in the Netherlands. Prostitutes here all have a big red button that, once pushed, send a distress call to the nearest police station and officers rush to the scene. and there are always a couple of officers in the area.

Sin Studly
03-27-2007, 06:50 AM
One would assume that because there are more prostitutes that there would be less rape because sex would be much easier get which is a good theory, but it could also be argued that because there are more girls out there, in the rapists mind the police would have a hard time tracking down "just another prostitute" if you understand where i'm coming from

both sides of the discussion raise good points and are very arguable indeed

Legal prostitutes work in brothels or rub'n'tugs where there's always a very large, very brutal man with a pair of metal knuckles and a lead-weighted sap in a nearby room ; and in escort agencies where the customer's personal details are known to the agency. You only get to rape and murder streetwalkers, and street soliciting is illegal even in places where prostitution isn't.

If you try to rape a legal 'sex worker', you'll get all gimped up.

Zeall
03-27-2007, 06:51 AM
Not that i know of, at least not in the Netherlands. Prostitutes here all have a big red button that, once pushed, send a distress call to the nearest police station and officers rush to the scene. and there are always a couple of officers in the area.

fair enough then, it's illegal here but there are quite a few in certain parts of the city, and i myself assumed that if it were to be legalised (sp?) then it would get out of control

Zeall
03-27-2007, 06:52 AM
If you try to rape a legal 'sex worker', you'll get all gimped up.

Good to know <_< >_>

joking, honestly i didn't know that street prostitutes were illegal in alot more places than i thought

Sin Studly
03-27-2007, 07:01 AM
Street soliciting is illegal everywhere in the developed world.

Zeall
03-27-2007, 07:09 AM
Well, at least i'm a little more informed about the world around me, thanks

Little_Miss_1565
03-27-2007, 08:25 AM
I beg to differ! yeah, rape is about power etc. etc.. still, there would be a drastic decrease in it if prostitution was approached as business everywhere.

No, because again, rape is not about sex. No one goes out raping because they can't get any. If it's just some action someone is after, there is always somewhere to find it, whether it's a friendly friend or a pro. Rape is about power, straight up. There's a reason most people know their attacker.


I've never seen any statistics proving that rape happens less in places where prostitution is legal... I'm pretty sure the numbers are about the same.

Word.

JoY
03-27-2007, 09:18 AM
better yet, I think the acceptance of prostitution here in the Netherlands in some cases makes people value sex less, like "it's not such a big deal, quit your whining, this goes into that & let's get on with it". I don't know. maybe I'm still trying to make up excuses for why I ever involuntarily had sex. to put it nicely.

Sin Studly
03-27-2007, 09:25 AM
Listen to 1565 if you're going to talk about the motivation for rape. Rape is about power, with the orgasm being like the cherry on the cake. It's not as simple as "one person wants sex, one person doesn't" except in specific situations which involve people so far removed from any type of environment or societal norms we're used to that we couldn't possibly begin to understand what makes their mind work.

People who like to rape aren't gonna be satisfied with a hooker.

Jebus
03-27-2007, 10:10 AM
Backtracking a bit...I still don't understand why prostitution isn't by the most part a personal choice (excluding sex slavery). I mean we're all a victim of circumstances and our environment and I'd hate to think that completely gets rid of our free will/choice. Is being a drug dealer or working at Mcdonalds not a personal choice simply because they're poor with no education and had no other skills? Of course it is. I don't see how that's any different with prostitution. My mom came to the US illegaly with no money, but somehow managed to survive working and going to school at the same time without whoring her self out.

Should I feel pity for the drug dealer and the Mcdonalds employee for having a lousy jobs? Heck no. Should I feel pity for the prostitute? Well, that's a bit different, but I'm still not going to pity the fact that she made a stupid decision (which is where the perosonal choice comes in).

Just to make things clear, my point only stands in places like in the US or any other "economically healthy" country.

JoY
03-27-2007, 10:26 AM
was she a single mother then?

sure, circumstances can force you in a position that you don't have many options & don't have much choice, & sure, that still doesn't take away the fact you still DO have a choice. but how much of a choice, though. & if you associate with the wrong people, because it's the only way to get by at that time, then how much of a choice do you have then?

& it's pretty naive to think that in any "economically healthy" country it shouldn't be necessary to be in such desperate need of money, you enter prostitution. in every single "economically healthy" country there are still large numbers of people, who don't have a penny to spend, who don't have a job, who don't have a roof over their head, who don't have running water (well, actually, that's a situation that doesn't exist here, unless someone's homeless, but it does in the US).... if you can't even afford water, how do you think someone's going to afford food.. for a whole family?? & sure, sure, they've gotten themselves in a bad place, in a bad situation, they should've worked harder, & they once had a choice & just made all the wrong decisions, right? well, what if you were born in a "home"/"household" like that..

your mother may have not had an education at that time, but she sure was packed with enough brains & made the right contacts, whatever, to figure it out. don't assume because she struggled her way out of it, everyone can. because for your mother, there are ten thousands of others waiting in line, hoping, praying & working for a better life.

Lodat225
03-27-2007, 11:00 AM
Listen to 1565 if you're going to talk about the motivation for rape. Rape is about power, with the orgasm being like the cherry on the cake. It's not as simple as "one person wants sex, one person doesn't" except in specific situations which involve people so far removed from any type of environment or societal norms we're used to that we couldn't possibly begin to understand what makes their mind work.

People who like to rape aren't gonna be satisfied with a hooker.

Unless the hooker doesn't want anal and gets forced.

Jebus
03-27-2007, 11:15 AM
No, she wasn't a single mother at the time, but it's not like she worked completely just for herself. She regularly sent a large amount of her wages to her family (parents, brothers, and sisters) back in El Salvador. Eh, I don't mean to make my mother sound like the holy grail of being able to do anything if you just work hard enough. Just giving an example.


well, what if you were born in a "home"/"household" like that..
Well, it's kind of hard to answer that question without trying to map out that person's entire life. My point is that it is possible, which is why I used my mother as an example. Maybe I'm just too much of an optimist.

I do see your point though. I know prostitution isn't a decision that is taken by someone lightly. Sometimes you're in a situation fucked up enough that you don't even know that you have other options.

Little_Miss_1565
03-27-2007, 11:24 AM
Unless the hooker doesn't want anal and gets forced.

The question is not whether or not people get rough with pros, because clearly, they do and it's been discussed in this thread. The question is would someone who <3's rape stop raping others if he has access to legal prostitutes. And the answer is no.

Paint_It_Black
03-27-2007, 02:08 PM
I know prostitution is a decision that is taken by someone lightly.

I'm gonna have to disagree with you there, but in general you're making a point I alluded to earlier.

calichix
03-27-2007, 02:15 PM
The question is would someone who <3's rape stop raping others if he has access to legal prostitutes. And the answer is no.


How eloquently put. <33

Although I still think prostitution rulz and there's no place safer than with a bunch of post-ejaculate men ;)

wheelchairman
03-27-2007, 02:44 PM
Could we get some actual research on rape and it's motivations. All we get are people re-iterating their opinions.

My premonition is that it's probably some combination of the two. I find it hard to believe there are 100% certainties in this field.

Llamas
03-27-2007, 02:53 PM
Well here's a pie chart that proves that rapists most often know/are close with the victims
http://www.rainn.org/images/statistics/perptovic05.gif

According to the 1997 Sex Offenses and Offenders study (PDF, 216KB), Bureau of Justice Statistics, U.S. Department of Justice:

* About four out of ten sexual assaults take place at the victim's own home. Two in ten take place in the home of a friend, neighbor or relative. One in ten take place outside, away from home. And about one in 12 take place in a parking garage.
* More than half of all rape/sexual assault incidents were reported by victims to have occurred within one mile of their home or at their home.
* 43% of rapes occur between 6 pm and midnight. 24% occur between midnight and 6am. The other 33% take place between 6am and 6pm.

Little_Miss_1565
03-27-2007, 02:54 PM
Could we get some actual research on rape and it's motivations. All we get are people re-iterating their opinions.

It's not an opinion.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=rape+causes

wheelchairman
03-27-2007, 02:59 PM
Oh I'm sorry, the famous reference: Google.

Llamas
03-27-2007, 03:03 PM
It's not an opinion.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=rape+causes

No offense (obviously, I agree with you in here), but that post was a little Mark Bryan-ish. :P

JohnnyNemesis
03-27-2007, 04:13 PM
Could we get some actual research on rape and it's motivations.

There's TONS of it though, and it's been echoed here. I'm struggling to remember these books I read in one of my Sociology courses a few years ago, but I'll let you know when I go home again (I'm on campus) and look through my old books.

wheelchairman
03-27-2007, 04:21 PM
Thanks Johnny that'd be great.

Confirming Bri's pie chart. I read once that the majority of rapes happened between acquaintances, and usually in rather wealthy neighborhoods.

But this begs the question that it was more likely those women who would be willing to report such abuses to an authority figure like the police.

An interesting aspect would be whether or not the man considered it rape. Probably not. Some clearly did, like the author of Soul On Ice.

None of this really corresponds with intent though. Was it for sexual gratification or was it for power.

JohnnyNemesis
03-27-2007, 04:27 PM
Eldridge Cleaver (Soul on Ice) is fuckin' psycho, and his reasons for raping women were both fascinating and sickening. Unfortunately, too many people overlook his real point for fear that they'd be justifying his behavior, but his point was that he raped black women to "practice" raping white women (which he did, as you know, as a way to access whiteness as a sort of tangible privilege)...and that no one even cared when he raped black women. His point was that he was a scumbag, and that so was the rest of white society at the time for only caring once white women were in danger. Anyway, in his case it was quite explicitly about power and sexual gratification was secondary. It's all horrible though.

Anyway, one of the books I read were surprising in that it was just so rare that rapes had anything to do with sexual gratification. One book I read was about the psychological studies in the area, but the other was just a collection of anecdotes from convicted and a few reformed rapists and their reasons were so interesting. I'll let you check out the work yourself sometime once I get can the info to you.

goonadie1day
03-27-2007, 04:31 PM
Ok this is my 2 cents...

I think (after having talked to several legal sex workers) that it takes a special kind of person to do what they do. In, as im told, most cases sex isnt the aim as to why their parties come to them, they need/desire to have a certain kind of attention that only a woman could provide... that doesnt have to mean sex but for many it does.

I have become ok with it. However, i could never do that, sex scares me. (Dont Ask)... anyways people do what they do because they chose to do so. In some cases yes i do realize people are forced into the business but those are the sad circumstances and if they really want help there are places to go and people to reach out to.

Street corner hookers however are another subject. In the US (Nevada) you have to have a clean record and such to become a legal sex worker. Those girls on the street are the girls who most likely have a drug habbit to support. I really think thats the saddest thing, to waste yourself in drugs. There is a difference between being addicted to crack or smoking a joint with your friends on the weekend... a huge difference...

Anyways... as far as rape is concerned.

Rapists need to practive *self control* and not do that shit. The ones who cant get any arent out there raping people they are the geeks that created the computer or work for M$... hahaha ok jk... stereotyping... sorry.

The ones who are rapist are not going to be those who are just to damn shy to go to the bar and socialize. Face it... you could get laid at anytime... go to a bar. If you /cannot/ get any... you dont have high standards... get the first lady who you find that is plastered out of her mind.

Thats my opinion.

Speakeasy
03-27-2007, 04:40 PM
Consensual sex and monogomy just don't agree with what our bodies were meant to do. If I had it my way the pack leader would beat all the other males up and lay around with the women all day. This would be me, obviously.

Speakeasy
03-27-2007, 04:40 PM
Oops I almost forgot, no fat chicks.

HornyPope
03-27-2007, 04:44 PM
However, i could never do that, sex scares me.

HAHAHAHAHA did you get raped?

Mota Boy
03-27-2007, 04:58 PM
As has been mentioned, prostitution will happen no matter what. It's merely a matter of whether or not it should be regulated. If it's regulated, the prostitutes are taken better care of, STD transmission is cut down immensely and the "product" is contained to certain districts, behind closed doors. If it's illegal, the entirety of the profits go to criminals, most often organized ones. And putting large sums of money into the hands of organized criminals really isn't my idea of good policy.

Granted, as it has been mentioned, legalized prostitution doesn't entirely erase the illegal method, but it does significantly undermine it's customer base.

Personally, my mind's constantly blown that porn is legal but prostitution isn't. If I pay you to fuck me, it's illegal, but if I pay you to fuck a stranger, and I film it and sell it to other strangers, it's perfectly OK. I can't see how that makes sense.

goonadie1day
03-27-2007, 05:04 PM
HAHAHAHAHA did you get raped?

NO! It just... scares me... i mean i have *moral issues* and i just... its a long long long story!

Rag Doll
03-27-2007, 07:50 PM
http://www.promotetruth.org/vs/index.htm
http://www.wao.org.my/news/20040108talkp_rape.htm
http://www.kidshealth.org/teen/safety/safebasics/rape_what_to_do.html
http://www.cityofmesa.org/police/literature/rape.aspx
http://209.85.165.104/search?q=cache:iufFkrzUEf8J:www.illinoisattorneyge neral.gov/women/5_Rules_Card.pdf+%22rape+is+about+power%22&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=4&gl=us
http://www.ccasa.org/documents/Rape_Myths_&_Facts.pdf
http://www.sarcoregon.org/sexual_assault_myths.asp

all of those sites say rape is about power and control, not sex. if i still had all the documents from my politics&sex class last semester, i'd send them to you, Per...but i dont =\

Jebus
03-27-2007, 07:59 PM
I'm gonna have to disagree with you there, but in general you're making a point I alluded to earlier.
That was a typo. I meant to say isn't.

Paint_It_Black
03-27-2007, 08:53 PM
That was a typo. I meant to say isn't.

Don't worry, that was obvious.



Personally, my mind's constantly blown that porn is legal but prostitution isn't. If I pay you to fuck me, it's illegal, but if I pay you to fuck a stranger, and I film it and sell it to other strangers, it's perfectly OK. I can't see how that makes sense.

I've been saying exactly the same for years. I've asked so many people to explain it to me and no one has ever succeeded.



Rapists need to practive *self control* and not do that shit.

Awesome.

JohnnyNemesis
03-27-2007, 09:15 PM
get the first lady who you find that is plastered out of her mind.

Um, you do realize that this legally counts as rape, right?

Rag Doll
03-27-2007, 09:17 PM
oh holy fuck, i didnt even read that post. shitty.

sKratch
03-27-2007, 10:01 PM
what the fuck happened here...

goonadie1day
03-27-2007, 10:13 PM
Awesome.

Wow... im flattered... 2nd time as a signature... still no one has explained this to me.

I was trying to say that since it is so much about control... control yourself instead of raping someone.



Um, you do realize that this legally counts as rape, right?

Thats not what i meant! Let me further my explanation. Typically people at the bar who are plastered have lowered their inhabitions... i mean to take the drunken lady home... you know?

Like, "Hey you fat drunk lady, you should come home with me"
Fat drunk lady, through beer goggles sees someone sexy, "Ok..."

Not in the sence of rape. Thats what i meant^^^ to say.

_______

Anyways rape is a touchy subject. It doesnt really matter what the motives are... because sometimes it could be about sex... and sometimes about control... and sometimes taking things that you cannot have... etc.

JohnnyNemesis
03-27-2007, 10:15 PM
Thats not what i meant! Let me further my explanation. Typically people at the bar who are plastered have lowered their inhabitions... i mean to take the drunken lady home... you know?

That's exactly what I was talking about. Sex with a drunken woman is legally defined as rape.

goonadie1day
03-27-2007, 10:17 PM
That's exactly what I was talking about. Sex with a drunken woman is legally defined as rape.

Oh wow... thats... wow. I didnt know that. Look you taught me something. :)
But i mean here is my question... most of the time that my friends go bar hopping they are looking to get drunk... and laid... how does that work exactly if its rape?

Paint_It_Black
03-28-2007, 12:46 AM
That's exactly what I was talking about. Sex with a drunken woman is legally defined as rape.

Where and how? That's just too ridiculous.

JoY
03-28-2007, 03:34 AM
That's exactly what I was talking about. Sex with a drunken woman is legally defined as rape.

oh my god.

oh my god.

oh my god.

hahahahahaha, that just doubled the amount of people I could've put behind bars.

I have a medicine book about this jazz. it says the majority of women is raped by someone they know & not just someone they know, but someone they know well, very well. someone they even care about & someone that's so close to them, victims often don't report it to protect the person. this is why rape statistics can never be accurate. in case of their partner, victims often don't fight back a whole lot out of fear to hurt the partner, hope that he will listen & stop, & because they don't feel like they could, like they're mentally capable of hitting the person. those type of victims often get back with their rapist, because they feel they were "in on it", like they had a share in what happened, they want to make it undone by forgiving him & the ending of the relationship was too abrupt to grasp. rapists often don't feel like rapists, because their image of rape is that it's something done by a stranger grabbing a girl out in the streets, dragging her behind a bush & then doing his thing.

for Bri, in reply to her PM; it's a textbook situation.

killer_queen
03-28-2007, 03:35 AM
That's exactly what I was talking about. Sex with a drunken woman is legally defined as rape.
What about men? Is it legal to have sex with drunken men? If it is not...I don't know, it would be stupid.

And Richard, do you still want me to drink as much as I can on the plane when we will meet?

JoY
03-28-2007, 03:36 AM
drunken men can't get it up, lololololol.
except for my boyfriend, but he wouldn't mind if I "raped" him.

Whiplash
03-28-2007, 03:40 AM
drunken men can't get it up, lololololol.
except for my boyfriend, but he wouldn't mind if I "raped" him.

Thats soooo not true, ok i admit it takes a little longer. But when it's up it's staying up.;p

JoY
03-28-2007, 03:42 AM
why did I know I would get these kind of replies...

Whiplash
03-28-2007, 03:44 AM
*giggles*

Thats just men defending there honour...........even though i'm still a boy.

killer_queen
03-28-2007, 03:46 AM
drunken men can't get it up, lololololol.
except for my boyfriend, but he wouldn't mind if I "raped" him.
I wouldn't mind if you raped me either. Just..you know, keep that in mind.

Paint_It_Black
03-28-2007, 04:24 AM
And Richard, do you still want me to drink as much as I can on the plane when we will meet?

Sure, your people are pretty cool with the whole "rape" thing, right?

This suddenly reminds me of a girl who went to my highschool. She took a trip to Turkey with her family when she was 13 or so and met a Turkish guy who was like 20. They "fell in love" and blah blah blah...anyway, she returns to the UK and he comes with, at which point he's quickly arrested for statutory rape. Oh, and it turned out she was pregnant too. Probably the most interesting thing to happen at my school, and was pretty big national news for a while. They both ended up back in Turkey I think and she spewed out a few more kids.

I thought it was funny 'cause she was so incredibly fug. Like, wtf, who'd risk jail to hit that? That was when I realized Turkish girls must be incredibly hideous, and it also explained the whole face covering thing.

I'm sure Gulsah is the exception.

wheelchairman
03-28-2007, 05:24 AM
http://www.promotetruth.org/vs/index.htm
http://www.wao.org.my/news/20040108talkp_rape.htm
http://www.kidshealth.org/teen/safety/safebasics/rape_what_to_do.html
http://www.cityofmesa.org/police/literature/rape.aspx
http://209.85.165.104/search?q=cache:iufFkrzUEf8J:www.illinoisattorneyge neral.gov/women/5_Rules_Card.pdf+%22rape+is+about+power%22&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=4&gl=us
http://www.ccasa.org/documents/Rape_Myths_&_Facts.pdf
http://www.sarcoregon.org/sexual_assault_myths.asp

all of those sites say rape is about power and control, not sex. if i still had all the documents from my politics&sex class last semester, i'd send them to you, Per...but i dont =\
Awesome. I'll look at this tonight.

JohnnyNemesis
03-28-2007, 07:49 AM
Where and how? That's just too ridiculous.

Look it up, it's true. To be clear though, it's not just any drunken woman or person, but any woman unable to fully and coherently give consent, as any sexual situation where one party does not give consent to the sexual act is rape. So that covers an incredibly large amount of drunken situations too, though obviously not ALL of them; it all depends on how that person feels.

I don't think it's ridiculous at all, actually. I think anything else would be kind of ridiculous.


drunken men can't get it up, lololololol.

qft :(

killer_queen
03-28-2007, 08:11 AM
Rickyyyy, why are you ignoring me? :(

JoY
03-28-2007, 08:58 AM
I wouldn't mind if you raped me either. Just..you know, keep that in mind.

I will, I so will.

JohnnyNemesis
03-28-2007, 09:51 AM
What about men? Is it legal to have sex with drunken men? If it is not...I don't know, it would be stupid.

And Richard, do you still want me to drink as much as I can on the plane when we will meet?


Rickyyyy, why are you ignoring me? :(

Sorrrrrrrrrries, I didn't mean to! I don't know the answer to the question you asked, but the answer to the question you want to ask but didn't is YES GULSAH I WILL MAKE LOVE TO YOU.

Jebus
03-28-2007, 11:01 AM
Rickyyyy, why are you ignoring me? :(
Speaking of whores...

Oh hi, Gulsah!

Paint_It_Black
03-28-2007, 04:17 PM
Look it up, it's true. To be clear though, it's not just any drunken woman or person, but any woman unable to fully and coherently give consent, as any sexual situation where one party does not give consent to the sexual act is rape.

Well, that totally changes it. You made it sound before that simply being in a state of drunkeness was enough to make it rape. Of course any situation in which one party does not consent can be classified as rape. But it's generally going to require being VERY intoxicated before someone loses the ability to consent.

It is still ridiculous to say all sex with a drunk person is rape, which is how it previously sounded.

JohnnyNemesis
03-28-2007, 04:50 PM
But it's generally going to require being VERY intoxicated before someone loses the ability to consent.

Legal definitions and reality are two separate things, but they converge in really crazy ways.

It doesn't matter whether one actually does lose the ability to consent or not, it matters whether the person says they lost the ability or not.

In that sense, this:


It is still ridiculous to say all sex with a drunk person is rape

Is iffy.

Paint_It_Black
03-28-2007, 11:08 PM
In that sense, any sex without impartial witnesses is iffy.

JoY
03-29-2007, 05:42 AM
you'd like that, wouldn't you?

Paint_It_Black
03-29-2007, 06:26 AM
Not at all, I prefer my witnesses to be very...um...partial?

Llamas
03-29-2007, 06:27 AM
Only amputees?

Paint_It_Black
03-29-2007, 06:28 AM
Nothin' better than a well placed stump.

JoY
03-29-2007, 06:46 AM
Not at all, I prefer my witnesses to be very...um...partial?

..I was talking about you being the witness.

Ime
03-29-2007, 07:21 AM
Meh, prostitution......It puts bread on the table.

Sin Studly
03-29-2007, 07:51 AM
People should go to the municipal office to sign a dated, signed, countersigned and witnessed contract of consent every time they do the dirty. Otherwise the male is a rapist.

Paint_It_Black
03-29-2007, 08:03 AM
But the man may have intimidated the woman into going along. So it's still iffy.

JoY
03-29-2007, 08:05 AM
language is a bitch, outspoken words = automatically miscommunication.

where's Wittgenstein when you need him.

JohnnyNemesis
03-29-2007, 08:21 AM
Nothin' better than a well placed stump.

Mmm. Tell me more.

Mota Boy
03-29-2007, 08:25 AM
In that sense, any sex without impartial witnesses is iffy....which is why Q'uranic law requires four witnesses for infidelity, which also includes rape.

See? God thought of everything.

Llamas
03-29-2007, 08:30 AM
But the man may have intimidated the woman into going along. So it's still iffy.

Well, how about the woman goes to sign the contract BEFORE she meets the man. Then he couldn't have persuaded cause he didn't know her!

JoY
03-29-2007, 08:47 AM
the sad thing is.. there would be women stupid enough to do that.

"well uhm let's see, I don't who he is yet.. but he has loads of cash, drives a BMW, has shiny black hair & dark eyes... he wears excellent suits & has no problem whatsoever spending shitloads of money on me, my desire for fashion & jewelry...."

atually.. that's pretty smart. a man would have to meet those terms of the contracts, BEFORE he would ever legally get a chance to get in the sack with her.

Paint_It_Black
03-29-2007, 08:54 AM
Which brings us nicely back to prostitution.

goonadie1day
03-29-2007, 02:15 PM
Something everyone should watch (http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=1612708682)!

Its about sexual consent... it pretty funny... or so i think!




People should go to the municipal office to sign a dated, signed, countersigned and witnessed contract of consent every time they do the dirty. Otherwise the male is a rapist.

Little_Miss_1565
03-29-2007, 06:36 PM
This is a portion of an essay I read in school called "A Plea for Eros" that has stuck in my mind for awhile.


A few years ago a friend of mine gave a lecture at Berkeley on the femme fatale, a subject he has been thinking about for years. When I met him, he was a graduate student at Columbia University, but now he is a full-fledged philosopher...He is Belgian but lives in Paris, a detail significant to the story, because he comes from another rhetorical tradition--a French one. When he finished speaking, he took questions, including a hostile one from a woman who demanded to know what he thought of the Antioch ruling--a law enacted at Antioch college, which essentially made every stage of a sexual encountar on campus legal only by verbal consent. My friend paused, smiled, and replied "It's wonderful. I love it. Just think of the erotic possibilities. 'May I touch your right breast? May I touch your left breast?'" The woman had nothing to say.