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mrconeman
04-06-2007, 05:53 PM
If you entered this topic thinking that I was seriously asking this question and wanted to give an opinion on which is better, leave, and then die.

Generally, I've been finding myself defending both genres against giant elitists on both sides, and I'm fucking sick to death of musical elitists. So I'm going to rant on the topic for awhile.

Firstly, people need to get out of this Rap vs Rock mentality. It's stupid beyond measurement. On both sides.

Secondly, what you hear on the radio is not the fucking pinnacle of any genre. Now, people judge music based on what they've heard this is natural, but you've only heard the the radio, and as I've already established this is not grounds to judge anything with even the slightest shred of accuracy.

And I've got to say, its the rock and especially metal fans who are worse for it, in general rap fans I know who dislike rock music, simply say they don't like it, and move the fuck on. Rock and especially metal heads fucking moan, and moan with their self richeous bullshit and make retarded claims like rap/rnb/hip hop has no substance, musically or lyrically. This makes me want to stab people. If they took the time to even fucking scratch the surface of the genres they so despise they'd realize that almost 100% of the time in the case of metal music, and quite a bit with rock music too, a rapper will without doubt have better lyrics and a hell of alot more substance than "I ride through the plains on my mighty steed, slaaaaay thaaaaa draaagooonzzzzz".

k. Now back to radio representation. And this is a point that when I make to rock fans they just start crying and talking bullshit trying to get around it. They judge entire genres based on radio and tv representation, they should really look at the so called rock music that gets represented on the radio, its all crap too, you get emo bands, or Linkin Park, in general substanceless and soulless crap. If they can look past the fact that on the surface, rock music and metal would be utter shit, what the fuck gives them the right to judge another genre based on its media surface?

If you take the time to dig a little deeper into either genre you get a faaaar better view of what its all about, and then you'll have the equipment and the right to judge what you actually think.

I'm just saying people judge far too quickly and ignorance fucking annoys me. I mean am I alone here? To clarify, I'd call myself alot more of a rock fan than a rap fan, but I do occasionally listen to it, and shit, to another mans standard (I.E an actual rap fan). I'm listening to the over-represented mainstream rap. It's just that I'm not retarded enough to attempt any kind of musical genre superiority. Its music, its subjective.
...this thread wasn't made so I could track out an argument with some metal head (Venom, shut up). It was because I genuinely needed to rant that out. People just need to agree with me and I'll feel better.
Go.

RickyCrack
04-06-2007, 08:12 PM
tl ; dr

This is only valid if said post isn't worth reading, however, I do support you not saying more than 4 letters.

RickyCrack
04-06-2007, 08:44 PM
Once again, a matter of opinion.

It's my opinion that it's a fact that you are not funny and steal joeks..

Jakebert
04-06-2007, 08:53 PM
I want to add to the thread, but mrconeman basically said everything that needs to be said. Great post.

coke_a_holic
04-06-2007, 09:06 PM
i like rock mor rap is crap w/o tha c!

0r4ng3
04-06-2007, 09:09 PM
yea ino rite its like retrads atempting poetry! lol dats wut tha letterss stand 4!

Edit: country suxx 2!

Jakebert
04-06-2007, 09:13 PM
u wut i h8? i h8 wen i listen 2 da offspring at skool n da wigers tell me that tey r ghey wen rap is gay n 4 fagz. fukin wigers.

Apathy
04-06-2007, 09:37 PM
yea ino rite its like retrads atempting poetry! lol dats wut tha letterss stand 4!

Edit: country suxx 2!

i herd that country pluss rap = craplol.

I hate elitists too, but sometimes I find myself acting like one. Not in this specific sense, but more like a indie>mainstream kind of way, and I think most people who listen to music frequently would agree with me there anyway.

Jakebert
04-06-2007, 09:44 PM
I think that's different though, because you're not bashing a genre or anything. Indie doesn't necessarily mean a certain genre, it just means independant. Bashing rap is someone bashing a whole genre.

JohnnyNemesis
04-07-2007, 02:07 AM
Wait, what the fuck? I posted in this thread earlier but I can't find my post. Anyway, I generally agree (lawl) and love you, mrconeman, for saying the shit I've lost the patience to say.

BurningSnake
04-07-2007, 12:24 PM
Rap and those hiphop crap are only for bitches that got no sense in music
I mean is talking fucking fast with no rthm at all is consider music?
or those boombox thing? I mean im a rock fan and i dont friggin get that music
whats so great bout hiphop crap anyway?
well i can tell ya 1 thing da girls are friggin hot to see if yknow what i mean hehehehehehehe........

Llamas
04-07-2007, 12:47 PM
1 time diz guy wuz playing dat rpa shit in mi clazz n i got pissed n put on da offy!!! n den he was pizzed and tol da teecher!! ROFL!

also, burningsnake, please read the original post.

0r4ng3
04-07-2007, 12:55 PM
u know wut they say, u cant spell rape witout rap!!1

JohnnyNemesis
04-07-2007, 01:00 PM
Fucking win.

Endymion
04-07-2007, 01:04 PM
http://www.csulb.edu/~rjames/classic/50cent.jpg

H1T_That
04-07-2007, 03:19 PM
*nods to the points brought up in this thread*

mrconeman
04-07-2007, 06:50 PM
I feel much better now.

Forza
04-08-2007, 10:59 AM
Rock music is technically more accomplished than rap. Rap is usually a beat with talking sometimes combined with some fancy singing and effects. Not an extensive use of the available instruments. And as I'm not a lyrics guy, I couldn't care less what they say. I miss the really catchy melodies and the guitarsolo's in rap. In fact, there is not much to rap at all. It's pretty much crap.

Llamas
04-08-2007, 11:06 AM
You're ignoring how difficult it is to improvise. It's not "talking". If you think that rap is easy, then you must think that the greatest names in Jazz had no talent. No, they're not exactly the same, but doing improv with your voice is much like doing it with a horn. Creating vocals for rap songs takes a lot more talent than making vocals for rock songs. In the end, the genres require equal amounts of talent.

mrconeman
04-08-2007, 11:11 AM
Rock music is technically more accomplished than rap. Rap is usually a beat with talking sometimes combined with some fancy singing and effects. Not an extensive use of the available instruments. And as I'm not a lyrics guy, I couldn't care less what they say. I miss the really catchy melodies and the guitarsolo's in rap. In fact, there is not much to rap at all. It's pretty much crap.


If you entered this topic thinking that I was seriously asking this question and wanted to give an opinion on which is better, leave, and then die.
kthx.

As Llamas said, both require talent, different forms of it, but talent and skill none the less. If you can't accept that rap music has alot of substance, then you're ignorant, and stupid.

Forza
04-08-2007, 11:15 AM
I didn't say anything about substance.

Llamas
04-08-2007, 11:16 AM
Would be great if you addressed my post instead of ignoring it.

mrconeman
04-08-2007, 11:19 AM
there is not much to rap at all.

I didn't say anything about substance.

Retarded much?

Forza
04-08-2007, 11:30 AM
Retarded much?

Musically, that is. Retarded = win, isn't it?

Llamas
04-08-2007, 11:35 AM
You're still ignoring my post... wow, you're really useless.

Forza
04-08-2007, 11:45 AM
Oh, I didn't see that. Musically improvising is a higher good for me than improvising vocally. As I said, I'm not a lyrics/vocals guy.

Llamas
04-08-2007, 11:55 AM
The voice is a musical instrument...

and it's one thing to say you don't care about lyrics in music. That's fine. But to say that one is more accomplished than the other just because you prefer one is just retarded.

wheelchairman
04-08-2007, 12:02 PM
I find rap to be far better than metal. Not rock, but definitely metal. I don't appreciate guitar wank. However most rap I find on the radio to be ridiculous. And a lot that's not as well. But when I find rap that I really like, well then I really like it.

No metal bands really connect to me on that level. However far many more rock bands do. But also folk bands and whatever as well.

As far as musical elitists go. They should all be shot, seriously. Especially people I know. :(

p.s. why johnny, why not delete spam?

Llamas
04-08-2007, 12:06 PM
It's hard for me to say which I prefer, since there are so many types of metal. There are also a few types of rap, as well, but some types of metal I can't stand, others I love. Stuff like Metallica... I prefer rap... stuff like mudvayne and static x, I prefer metal. Or Tool. I connect with metal, depending on what it is. I almost never lyrically connect with any rap (minus a few rappers). It really just depends for me. I actually think I find it harder to find a really good rapper than to find a really good metal band, but it might just be because I'm a white girl. :P

endlesst0m
04-08-2007, 05:08 PM
I've debated this subject on these forums many times...

All I can say is, it bothers me when people try to say that rap isn't music and requires no talent. But there's not a single other genre in music that puts lets emphasis on melody, which is unargueably the most enjoyable part of music. Does that mean rap is an inferior genre? No, of course not, because it still has all the elements of music, no matter what anybody tries to say. It's just less interesting to a lot of people because the melodies aren't as important to the song as in other genres.That's the main reason I think a lot of people don't like rap. But instead of figuring that out and explaining it intelligently, they just say "rap sux it all sounds the same" which is stupid.

Then again I think another reason a lot of white people don't like rap is because they can't relate to the lyrics. For example, "Gym Class Heroes" has these songs about Myspace and popular emo bands, and white kids seem to love that group. That's a big factor too, but I think it's more of the first reason I mentioned.

Llamas
04-08-2007, 05:13 PM
The vocal line in rap IS the melody. There's nothing about a rap vocal that makes it less of a melody than a rock vocal. So your point is kind of invalid there.

And there isn't a majority of people in the world who love rock and hate rap. It's quite balanced.

endlesst0m
04-08-2007, 05:15 PM
The vocal line in rap IS the melody. There's nothing about a rap vocal that makes it less of a melody than a rock vocal. So your point is kind of invalid there.

And there isn't a majority of people in the world who love rock and hate rap. It's quite balanced.

NO. I hate it when people think that. In fact, I was thinking about responding to your previous post but for some reason I didn't.

It's not a vocal melody unless they're SINGING different NOTES. Period.There's nothing you can say to overcome that.

0r4ng3
04-08-2007, 05:16 PM
The vocal line in rap IS the melody. There's nothing about a rap vocal that makes it less of a melody than a rock vocal. So your point is kind of invalid there.
That may be the case, but most people don't see that. Hence, they refer to it as "talking fast". Honestly, I sometimes have a problem hearing melody in most rap songs.

Edit: What ^ he said. Notes, and such.

Llamas
04-08-2007, 05:23 PM
NO. I hate it when people think that. In fact, I was thinking about responding to your previous post but for some reason I didn't.

It's not a vocal melody unless they're SINGING different NOTES. Period.There's nothing you can say to overcome that.

Oh my god. I studied music for many years. A melody is a succession of "events" that happen in a line or order, and not all at once. Or, you can even reference a dictionary... "the linear structure of a piece of music in which single notes follow one another"

I really really hate it when people claim that a rap line is not a melody. I'd like to see a qualified reference you have that proves that a melody is required to have distinctive notes, because that's radical.

endlesst0m
04-08-2007, 05:42 PM
Oh my god. I studied music for many years. A melody is a succession of "events" that happen in a line or order, and not all at once. Or, you can even reference a dictionary... "the linear structure of a piece of music in which single notes follow one another"

I really really hate it when people claim that a rap line is not a melody. I'd like to see a qualified reference you have that proves that a melody is required to have distinctive notes, because that's radical.

True, you got me on a technicality(I took music theory in college, and apparently wasn't paying attention when the teacher said that any fucking series of sound is a melody). But that still doesn't change the fact that rap lines are typically monotonous. And I'm hesistant to just lump monotonous rap lines into the same category as vocal melodies that actually use scales and a variety of notes, although now I see that TECHNICALLY, I have no choice but to.

JohnnyNemesis
04-08-2007, 05:53 PM
This thread has become the opposite of what it was supposed to be.

German Andres
04-08-2007, 06:40 PM
Well, I love rock (the old rock), but I hate rap. In my opinion, all the songs are the same, they talk about the same and they sound the same. I`m not trying to hurt anyone`s feelings, I know thet a lot of people like rap, I`m just saying what I think:D

endlesst0m
04-08-2007, 06:43 PM
Well, I love rock (the old rock), but I hate rap. In my opinion, all the songs are the same, they talk about the same and they sound the same. I`m not trying to hurt anyone`s feelings, I know thet a lot of people like rap, I`m just saying what I think:D

Oh okay. As long as you say "In my opinion".

Llamas
04-08-2007, 06:50 PM
Well, I love rock (the old rock), but I hate rap. In my opinion, all the songs are the same, they talk about the same and they sound the same. I`m not trying to hurt anyone`s feelings, I know thet a lot of people like rap, I`m just saying what I think:D

Ricky just made a very good point right before your post. Please read it.

coke_a_holic
04-08-2007, 08:11 PM
http://youtube.com/watch?v=27zhsc_O508

All About Eve
04-08-2007, 08:43 PM
I generally agree.

Although I like a lot of metal, I stay the fuck away from metal heads because of how pretentious they are. I'm pretentious too, but in the way guys like Jakebert are; I think the stuff I like is better, h8 on the sux, but don't judge stuff I don't actually know about.

JohnnyNemesis
04-08-2007, 08:46 PM
http://youtube.com/watch?v=27zhsc_O508

Oh fuck yes.

coke_a_holic
04-08-2007, 08:55 PM
Oh fuck yes.

I've been listening to that cd fucking nonstop this week.

JohnnyNemesis
04-08-2007, 08:57 PM
It's amazing!

*sews your asshole shut and keeps feeding you and feeding you*

Jakebert
04-08-2007, 09:15 PM
I generally agree.

Although I like a lot of metal, I stay the fuck away from metal heads because of how pretentious they are. I'm pretentious too, but in the way guys like Jakebert are; I think the stuff I like is better, h8 on the sux, but don't judge stuff I don't actually know about.

Yeah, I don't listen to a lot of metal, therefore I stay out of discussions about it, and don't try to say who sucks and who doesn't, unless of course it's like Metallica or something like that. I do the same thing with rap, and I think everyone in that situation should be doing the same thing: admit that you know nothing about it, and you shouldn't be judging it.

T-6005
04-08-2007, 09:38 PM
This thread wasn't gay.

But then it got gay.

I almost always agree with mrconeman, and where I don't at least I can amicably disagree - particularly on matters of taste and style and such. But when dealing in generalities like this, there are only 3 sides. The close-minded idiots, the overwhelmingly tolerant, generally good-natured people who try and explain the obvious to the former group, and the periphery of people who've seen the argument many times before and prefer to ridicule the idiots than to attempt to batter through their thick walls of overbearing, moronic superiority.

Then there's the mysterious 4th group that agrees but generally keeps quiet. Like me. The reason for our existence is that we can have really bad taste in music at times, and therefore stay out of most discussions about taste.

0r4ng3
04-08-2007, 09:47 PM
Then there's the mysterious 4th group that agrees but generally keeps quiet. Like me. The reason for our existence is that we can have really bad taste in music at times, and therefore stay out of most discussions about taste.
I'm part of that group, but mostly because I suck at arguing. If I were more vocal about it, I know I would be such an elitist.

coke_a_holic
04-08-2007, 10:49 PM
It's amazing!

*sews your asshole shut and keeps feeding you and feeding you*

*put a hanger on the stove and lets that shit sit there for like a half hour, takes it off and sticks it in your ass slow like sssssssss*

Harnum
04-11-2007, 05:36 AM
Most intelligent thread and poster in a long time. Up with da repz!