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Thomas
06-28-2007, 10:44 AM
So I've heard a lot of his drumming, from Nirvana to QOTSA to Probot to Tenacious D, and I've yet to be impressed. Everybody keeps saying how amazing he is, but I've yet to be convinced that he's anything more than a mediocre drummer. Could someone PLEASE show me a video or a song where his drumming is anything spectacular, because I feel like I'm going crazy for not being impressed by him.

Llamas
06-28-2007, 10:48 AM
Dave Grohl annoys me. I'm biased (I hate Foo Fighters), but I really think his drumming is very average. I just always get this feeling that, since the rest of Nirvana was so bad at their instruments, Dave's averageness on drums sounded AMAZING in comparison. :P

opivy21
06-28-2007, 11:15 AM
I may just be speaking for myself, but I think that people who don't play drums are bad at judging the quality of drumming. I don't know the first thing about drums. As for Dave Grohl specifically, I think his drums with the Queens of the Stone Age sound hard but obviously I don't know if they really are or not.

Endymion
06-28-2007, 11:35 AM
hint: nothing played on popular radio requires any skill

endlesst0m
06-28-2007, 11:42 AM
Yeah, I think he might be a little over-rated too, but he does write really solid parts, and he fucking KILLS them when he records. I mean, he plays everything pretty much 100% perfect.

My biggest criticism of Grohl would be that his drumming isn't diverse at all. As far as songwriting goes, it's as if the only thing he does really well is write songs with that "90's alternative rock" drum sound. I can't really imagine him playing anything other than that sound, and I wonder if he can.

mrconeman
06-28-2007, 11:42 AM
He's amazing on drums for the same reason Kurt Cobain is amazing on guitar.
They played for Nirvana.








I considered leaving this post as just the above, but some people are retarded, so yes, I was being sarcastic in that neither of them are very good, but they were in a popular band.

H1T_That
06-28-2007, 11:59 AM
I generally agree. However on some songs i find his drumming to be first class. Thats not to say its not difficult drumming, it just sounds fucking ace. Examples of these songs are Tenacious D's Beelzeboss, and QOTSA no one knows.



Now let me say this again before people jump on me, I'm not saying these songs include difficult, technical drums, i'm just saying they sound great.

Thomas
06-28-2007, 12:08 PM
hint: nothing played on popular radio requires any skill

As true as that may be, there are a few exceptions, which people tend to overlook. Tool, whether you like them or not, are amazing musicians. Actually, from the top of my head, that's about it. Go you.



Yeah, I think he might be a little over-rated too, but he does write really solid parts, and he fucking KILLS them when he records. I mean, he plays everything pretty much 100% perfect.

My biggest criticism of Grohl would be that his drumming isn't diverse at all. As far as songwriting goes, it's as if the only thing he does really well is write songs with that "90's alternative rock" drum sound. I can't really imagine him playing anything other than that sound, and I wonder if he can.

He nails them because his parts are SOOO basic. You have to give him credit for writing parts that work for the song, but they just aren't that great aside from that.



I generally agree. However on some songs i find his drumming to be first class. Thats not to say its not difficult drumming, it just sounds fucking ace. Examples of these songs are Tenacious D's Beelzeboss, and QOTSA no one knows.



Now let me say this again before people jump on me, I'm not saying these songs include difficult, technical drums, i'm just saying they sound great.


I was actually listening to No One Knows while making this thread and I didn't hear anything special at all. Just basically quarter notes on the hi-hat with a basic 2-4 snare pattern. The only part that people MIGHT think is difficult was the roll he throws in the chorus or somewhere. I don't remember there, but they weren't even solid rolls, so I don't get it.

nieh
06-28-2007, 12:14 PM
In regards to popular music, he's one of the few drummers out there with any semblance of style at all. He's nothing special in when it comes to talent but the stuff he comes up with sounds cool to listen to when you compare him to most of the other drummers on the radio. Maybe that's because he was a drummer first and a songwriter second and his song-writing tends to include slightly less straight-forward drumming than your average band? I dunno.

HeadAroundU
06-28-2007, 01:39 PM
He is a very specific drummer and his drums have a special style and personality...he is unique...

I'm not his fan but I love 'Aero Zeppelin' drums.

Nineteen Seventy Nine
06-28-2007, 01:49 PM
Now, I don't know much about drum talent, but this is one of the only songs I've heard and liked where I really pay attention to the drums, and Dave Grohl happens to be drumming.

"Go With The Flow" by Queens of the Stone Age

http://youtube.com/watch?v=9nz6Rq1Pvh0

endlesst0m
06-28-2007, 02:46 PM
After watching that video, I remembered how Dave Grohl does a lot of big, well-placed snare accents that non-drummers love. That's probably part of why he's so popular.

Andy
06-28-2007, 02:54 PM
I don't care what you say and don't want to bother myself with reading your arguments. I like Grohl. I think he's a great modern drummer.

Yatesy
06-28-2007, 03:37 PM
I like his drumming but most of it's down to how hard he can hit them and makes them sound good rather than technical ability imo.

DeAtHsTaR
06-28-2007, 03:42 PM
hint: nothing played on popular radio requires any skill

Tool??? Possibly?

EDIT: Thomas beat me to it.

Endymion
06-28-2007, 03:54 PM
to those who said tool has talent: you are tools.

Llamas
06-28-2007, 03:58 PM
Now, I don't know much about drum talent, but this is one of the only songs I've heard and liked where I really pay attention to the drums, and Dave Grohl happens to be drumming.

"Go With The Flow" by Queens of the Stone Age

http://youtube.com/watch?v=9nz6Rq1Pvh0

The drumming is so repetitive! What is gripping about it? I seriously don't understand. :(

He's no better than Travis Barker.

Andy
06-28-2007, 04:01 PM
I hate Travis Barker. He's a showpony. OOOOOOH you can roll. WELL FUCKING DONE.

Llamas
06-28-2007, 04:02 PM
I don't like Barker, either. I don't think he's that good. But I think both drummers are slightly above the average MTV drummer.

Andy
06-28-2007, 04:06 PM
I think Grohl has got that charisma about his playing that only great no-nonsense rock and roll drummers have. But hey, it's all down to personal taste I guess. I'm sure that if people were to list a number of their favourite drummers I wouldn't think they were all that either.

nieh
06-28-2007, 04:14 PM
Travis Barker is a fantastic drummer. I just wish he would join better bands.

Llamas
06-28-2007, 04:30 PM
In regards to Danny Carey of Tool... I don't know how anyone could hear drumming like this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JVbFrl9wLBA and not think he's a very talented man. Or these solos http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HAg5-zn_qeA http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RUcdMva9RnQ

He's really the only drummer in the MTV or rock world that's ever impressed me. He's amazingly creative, writes drum parts that fit the songs perfectly, has amazing control and tempo, and uses dynamics more than any rock drummer I know of. More of the drummers I see that blow me away are in jazz or blues.

endlesst0m
06-28-2007, 04:41 PM
to those who said tool has talent: you are tools.

Tool doesn't have talent compared to who, you jackass?

Jakebert
06-28-2007, 04:58 PM
Tool is to progressive what Incubus is to alternative. It's easy rock music pretending to be intelligent. It's smart music for people that want to listen to smart music, but can't.

Anyway, I like Dave Grohl's style. I don't care if it's not amazingly technical or complicated. It sounds great, and at the end of the day, that's what matters.

HeadAroundU
06-28-2007, 05:01 PM
Listen bitches, that's pretty great. <3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WTzYPgju2HU

German Andres
06-28-2007, 05:01 PM
I love Grohl, I think he is a great drummer. Loved the way he played in Nirvana, and the way he does now.

Llamas
06-28-2007, 05:03 PM
Tool is to progressive what Incubus is to alternative. It's easy rock music pretending to be intelligent. It's smart music for people that want to listen to smart music, but can't.

I find that people who say this know next to nothing about Tool and haven't actually listened to them besides hearing a couple singles on the radio. I love progressive rock and metal. I know many bands within the genres, and I believe that Tool is very high up there. Their more recent albums are extremely intelligent and convoluted, and their progressive songs are incredible. If you listen to the singles like Stinkfist, Aenima, or Schism, then I can easily see why someone would think the quoted statement. But Tool is one of those bands that can't be judged on a song or two. That'd be like saying "Pink Floyd is boring crap. I've heard Another Brick in the Wall."

There is nothing easy about the majority of the music Tool plays.

HeadAroundU
06-28-2007, 05:12 PM
I listened to '10 000 days' yesterday. It was 'meh', a few good moments. They should cut their songs in half.

Llamas
06-28-2007, 05:26 PM
By the way, I just wanted to clarify.

I don't think that not being into Tool means you haven't listened to them. I obviously accept that some people just don't like them. However, claiming they aren't talented is just false, unless your definition of "talent" has nothing to do with mastery of song writing and instrument playing. Most people who claim they aren't talented, or are just simple rock that tries to be deep haven't really listened to them. I wasn't trying to say, "If you don't like Tool, you just don't get it", as most of their fan base seems to believe.

Endymion
06-28-2007, 05:37 PM
off hand? most anyone. do you want to see better dumming weasel walter comes to mind: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SA5NY621Nv0 or maybe zach hill: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-plG6mmyI_I or gabe serbian: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y74VmUBtmNs . for all around better music, you can see john zorn's naked city: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=osRYBITEZ-w or maybe the flying luttenbachers: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHPFBxruoHg

nieh
06-28-2007, 05:47 PM
Tool tend to make music that's complicated for the sake of being complicated. Half the music on their albums is just a few simple notes, riffs and rhythms repeated over and over again while having constantly shifting time signatures and making the slightest little changes to the riff that don't affect anything at all because it still ends up sounding exactly the same throughout the whole 10 minutes they waste playing it. It doesn't progress, it doesn't build, it just sits there creating moods that smarter bands are able to create while actually writing SONGS to go with them. That's not to say ALL their stuff is that way. When they actually take the time to write songs, they can be pretty decent but in those instances it's really not that much more complicated than...say...Soungarden, just a lot longer.

Llamas
06-28-2007, 05:47 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SA5NY621Nv0
That guy was just playing a bunch of 16th notes on various parts of the kit. And I dunno if 16th notes is correct, because the band wasn't actually together.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-plG6mmyI_I
Fast =/= good. That was really boring. :-/



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y74VmUBtmNs
That was very, very good drumming for the style of music. I would not say it's better than Danny Carey's drumming, just different, due to a very different style. But that guy is good.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=osRYBITEZ-w
I had to x that video out after 10 seconds of seeing that guy make faggy noises with such a beloved instrument. :(

...and youtube decided to act gay before I could watch the last video. :P

Jakebert
06-28-2007, 05:52 PM
I find that people who say this know next to nothing about Tool and haven't actually listened to them besides hearing a couple singles on the radio. I love progressive rock and metal. I know many bands within the genres, and I believe that Tool is very high up there. Their more recent albums are extremely intelligent and convoluted, and their progressive songs are incredible. If you listen to the singles like Stinkfist, Aenima, or Schism, then I can easily see why someone would think the quoted statement. But Tool is one of those bands that can't be judged on a song or two. That'd be like saying "Pink Floyd is boring crap. I've heard Another Brick in the Wall."

There is nothing easy about the majority of the music Tool plays.

I have a good friend who is obsessed with them. I've heard a good 95% of their music, and have made tons of attempts to get into them. I still think that they're an incredibly overrated attempt at being pretentious that fails most of the time. Nieh summed it up very well by saying that the songs are just complicated for the sake of being complicated. They have some good songs, and they're good technical musicians, but most of the time that's all that they are, and it seems that they lack a lot of the ability to write actual songs.

bouncingcoles
06-28-2007, 06:21 PM
So I've heard a lot of his drumming, from Nirvana to QOTSA to Probot to Tenacious D, and I've yet to be impressed. Everybody keeps saying how amazing he is, but I've yet to be convinced that he's anything more than a mediocre drummer. Could someone PLEASE show me a video or a song where his drumming is anything spectacular, because I feel like I'm going crazy for not being impressed by him.

Dave grohl's drumming when Nirvana first hit it big was much different then anything else that was around at the time. thats why his drumming is considered amazing. i admit i get sick of people kissing his ass all the time.

DeAtHsTaR
06-28-2007, 07:30 PM
to those who said tool has talent: you are tools.

I don't like their music much either, but it takes an idiot to say they're not talented musicians.

Thomas
06-28-2007, 07:35 PM
Tool tend to make music that's complicated for the sake of being complicated. Half the music on their albums is just a few simple notes, riffs and rhythms repeated over and over again while having constantly shifting time signatures and making the slightest little changes to the riff that don't affect anything at all because it still ends up sounding exactly the same throughout the whole 10 minutes they waste playing it. It doesn't progress, it doesn't build, it just sits there creating moods that smarter bands are able to create while actually writing SONGS to go with them. That's not to say ALL their stuff is that way. When they actually take the time to write songs, they can be pretty decent but in those instances it's really not that much more complicated than...say...Soungarden, just a lot longer.

I disagree. They have a lot of those elements in their songs. Just from the top of my head, the song Parabola progresses, builds tension, and releases. It also changes melody, maybe key signature, but I'm not sure. I'll have to listen to it again. And throughout all this changing, they still retain the same mood and are very musical about everything. And that's just one song.


off hand? most anyone. do you want to see better dumming weasel walter comes to mind: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SA5NY621Nv0 or maybe zach hill: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-plG6mmyI_I or gabe serbian: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y74VmUBtmNs . for all around better music, you can see john zorn's naked city: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=osRYBITEZ-w or maybe the flying luttenbachers: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHPFBxruoHg


Weasel Walter- no musicality at all. Just throwing a bunch of notes in there
Zach Hill- rolls. whatever.
Gabe Serbian- Good at choking cymbals, but not much more than that
Naked City- Not bad, but definitely not at Danny Carey's level. I could do most of that stuff myself.
Flying Luttenbachers- garage band drumming. nothing special.

Yeah, some of it wasn't too bad, but Danny Carey tops them all.








Just for the record, Tool fans are possibly even worse than Nirvana fans, and although Danny Carey and Maynard are talented individuals, the other two just don't cut it. I listen to them for the drumming, lyrics, and vocals. I can understand not liking them, but claiming that they aren't talented musicians makes you look like one of those people that refuses to listen to anything mainstream only because it is mainstream, not because of the music's quality. And it's also understandable if you don't like the way they write music. It's not for everybody.

DeAtHsTaR
06-28-2007, 07:39 PM
Thomas, did you just say that Tool's bass player sucks? That's just not true at all.

Yet I still don't like their music...

nameless
06-28-2007, 08:07 PM
I was actually listening to No One Knows while making this thread and I didn't hear anything special at all. Just basically quarter notes on the hi-hat with a basic 2-4 snare pattern. The only part that people MIGHT think is difficult was the roll he throws in the chorus or somewhere. I don't remember there, but they weren't even solid rolls, so I don't get it.[/QUOTE]


the verses may be a bit basic but he plays for the song, some people would play more technical and supposed "creative" parts but what he played sounds fine. no doubt a lot of people would slag him off if he tried something really fancy and out of the ordinary and tell him he should have kept it simple. maybe he did try something else but the others or the producer wanted the final version done a certain way.

you say there is only one part that might be difficult but could you really get that song down to a decent standard to a click track?! maybe you can and fair play but you cant really dismiss someones playing as just being basic.

he is a musician, he probably went in and jammed the song with them and maybe helped structure parts, i dont think it is the type of song you just get given and asked to lay a part down to. he played for the song which is all that matters rather than stamping his own authority on it!

Homer
06-28-2007, 08:53 PM
off hand? most anyone. do you want to see better dumming weasel walter comes to mind: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SA5NY621Nv0
Didn't watch.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-plG6mmyI_I
Every drummer can bang the drums quickly. You can make anything sound good with a professional kit.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y74VmUBtmNs
Getting better, but still, banging the drums is easy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=osRYBITEZ-w
The best one on the list.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHPFBxruoHg
Good drummer, but not the best.

Posting one of these videos would have been fine.

Thomas
06-28-2007, 08:58 PM
Thomas, did you just say that Tool's bass player sucks? That's just not true at all.

Yet I still don't like their music...

Well, I know I've said this in other thread, but I don't know a whole lot about guitar and bass, so what I said was based on how prominent and significant they are to their music.




the verses may be a bit basic but he plays for the song, some people would play more technical and supposed "creative" parts but what he played sounds fine. no doubt a lot of people would slag him off if he tried something really fancy and out of the ordinary and tell him he should have kept it simple. maybe he did try something else but the others or the producer wanted the final version done a certain way.

you say there is only one part that might be difficult but could you really get that song down to a decent standard to a click track?! maybe you can and fair play but you cant really dismiss someones playing as just being basic.

he is a musician, he probably went in and jammed the song with them and maybe helped structure parts, i dont think it is the type of song you just get given and asked to lay a part down to. he played for the song which is all that matters rather than stamping his own authority on it!

It sounds fine, yes, but it doesn't show that he's a above drummer, which is the issue that I brought up in the first place.

Jakebert
06-28-2007, 09:00 PM
I don't like their music much either, but it takes an idiot to say they're not talented musicians.

Technical skill is not the same as being able to write a good song. Tool lack that ability most of the time.

Thomas
06-28-2007, 09:05 PM
Technical skill is not the same as being able to write a good song. Tool lack that ability most of the time.

I think that depends on what appeals to you. Personally, I love the way they write songs. I love the way they usually start off relatively soft and build tension until the final release when they go all out. I can understand how one wouldn't like Maynard's style, but it all just amazes me.

nieh
06-28-2007, 09:48 PM
Are you going strictly in regards to technical ability? You seem to take style and personal preference into account when you talk about drummers. Like, I've seen you mention in other threads that you think John Bonham and Neil Peart are some of the best drummers ever, but there's tons of people that grew up practicing to those guys and were able to play along to everything they did note for note by the time they were 12 and just got better from there. Don't get me wrong, those two are very talented and were very influential, but the bar has been pushed way beyond them when it comes to technicality in the same sense that the bar has been pushed way beyond Jimi Hendrix in regards to guitar. If you compare Danny Carey to an average death metal drummer, he'll come up short on the technical end (some of them sound like robots) even if you prefer his style. Anyways, here's some drummers I prefer listening to over Danny Carey, regardless of whether or not they're actually better:

Dillinger Escape Plan - 4th Grade Dropout (http://download.yousendit.com/D323CF62117799C5)
Dillinger Escape Plan - Destro's Secret (http://download.yousendit.com/A732213349836623)
Dillinger Escape Plan - Weekend Sex Change (http://download.yousendit.com/A8BFDA8B1C247294)

Dismemberment Plan - Sentimental Man (http://download.yousendit.com/E7F95F5D46F31733)
Dismemberment Plan - Time Bomb (http://www.yousendit.com/download/bWJxQk01bWd3TGcwTVE9PQ)
The Dismemberment Plan - The Other Side (http://download.yousendit.com/116CFC7F5820744E)

Mr. Bungle - Carry Stress in the Jaw (http://download.yousendit.com/0B93D24243A5FABB)
There's others, but I'm tired and it's late. Also, Tool were pretty much my favorite band in high school. Now I can't listen to a whole album of theirs without wanting to kick someone. There are bands that are much more technically proficient than they are, and there are bands that are a lot more consistent songwriters in the mood/metal stuff than they are, so there's really no point for me to listen to them anymore.

Ninty Man
06-28-2007, 10:24 PM
I have to agree with thomas about Grohl:

He's nothing special... in fact, I play hard and fast, and I know I need to improve.

A better modern drummer???

Brooks and Chad Wackerman
Josh Freese
Atom Willard
Adam Carson

And more oldies:

Terry Bozzio
Alex Van Halen

But Grohl isn't good

All About Eve
06-28-2007, 10:27 PM
Tool tend to make music that's complicated for the sake of being complicated. Half the music on their albums is just a few simple notes, riffs and rhythms repeated over and over again while having constantly shifting time signatures and making the slightest little changes to the riff that don't affect anything at all because it still ends up sounding exactly the same throughout the whole 10 minutes they waste playing it. It doesn't progress, it doesn't build, it just sits there creating moods that smarter bands are able to create while actually writing SONGS to go with them. That's not to say ALL their stuff is that way. When they actually take the time to write songs, they can be pretty decent but in those instances it's really not that much more complicated than...say...Soungarden, just a lot longer.
This is what I wanted to say.


A better modern drummer???

Josh Freese
Atom Willard

Are you fucking kidding?
I think it boils down to, Grohl is good at his style of drumming which is made for whatever band he's playing with at the time. So in that sense, he is a 'good' drummer, because he fits and sounds good. If he were to do something Portnoy-esque in the middle of a QotSA song, it would be skillfully awesome, but wouldn't flow well.

Thomas
06-29-2007, 12:31 AM
Are you going strictly in regards to technical ability? You seem to take style and personal preference into account when you talk about drummers. Like, I've seen you mention in other threads that you think John Bonham and Neil Peart are some of the best drummers ever, but there's tons of people that grew up practicing to those guys and were able to play along to everything they did note for note by the time they were 12 and just got better from there. Don't get me wrong, those two are very talented and were very influential, but the bar has been pushed way beyond them when it comes to technicality in the same sense that the bar has been pushed way beyond Jimi Hendrix in regards to guitar. If you compare Danny Carey to an average death metal drummer, he'll come up short on the technical end (some of them sound like robots) even if you prefer his style. Anyways, here's some drummers I prefer listening to over Danny Carey, regardless of whether or not they're actually better:

Dillinger Escape Plan - 4th Grade Dropout (http://download.yousendit.com/D323CF62117799C5)
Dillinger Escape Plan - Destro's Secret (http://download.yousendit.com/A732213349836623)
Dillinger Escape Plan - Weekend Sex Change (http://download.yousendit.com/A8BFDA8B1C247294)

Dismemberment Plan - Sentimental Man (http://download.yousendit.com/E7F95F5D46F31733)
Dismemberment Plan - Time Bomb (http://www.yousendit.com/download/bWJxQk01bWd3TGcwTVE9PQ)
The Dismemberment Plan - The Other Side (http://download.yousendit.com/116CFC7F5820744E)

Mr. Bungle - Carry Stress in the Jaw (http://download.yousendit.com/0B93D24243A5FABB)
There's others, but I'm tired and it's late. Also, Tool were pretty much my favorite band in high school. Now I can't listen to a whole album of theirs without wanting to kick someone. There are bands that are much more technically proficient than they are, and there are bands that are a lot more consistent songwriters in the mood/metal stuff than they are, so there's really no point for me to listen to them anymore.

Oh, I know there are better drummers out there. There just aren't many in mainstream rock music. I'll listen to those guys later (I'm going to bed right now) but have you heard of Jojo Mayer? The man is fucking inhuman. He's taken Buddy Rich's techniques to the next level. Look him up on youtube.

DeAtHsTaR
06-29-2007, 02:17 AM
There's this local drummer named Corey Groves, and he's the best drummer I've ever heard, he's up there with Neil Peart. This guy is going somewhere. Haha he has like 12 taums (3 are roto-taums), 15 cymbals of all shapes and sizes, cowbells, two bass drums, and..I just can't describe his playing. I need to get a video of him next time I see him.

Llamas
06-29-2007, 05:06 AM
Tool tend to make music that's complicated for the sake of being complicated. Half the music on their albums is just a few simple notes, riffs and rhythms repeated over and over again while having constantly shifting time signatures and making the slightest little changes to the riff that don't affect anything at all because it still ends up sounding exactly the same throughout the whole 10 minutes they waste playing it. It doesn't progress, it doesn't build, it just sits there creating moods that smarter bands are able to create while actually writing SONGS to go with them. That's not to say ALL their stuff is that way. When they actually take the time to write songs, they can be pretty decent but in those instances it's really not that much more complicated than...say...Soungarden, just a lot longer.

First of all, I honestly would like to hear how you define "complicated for the sake of being complicated". I've done a lot of thinking about that concept, and I can't really think of any music that is naturally complicated. Do you listen to any music from the Classical era? Do you think that music was just "naturally" complicated, or do you think it was also forced?

If you really think that any of their 10 minute songs sound the same all the way through, I have a hard time believing you've actually listened to them. Any of their songs that are of that length don't even sound like the same song from beginning to end. It doesn't progress? Again, I'm left thinking you've never actually listened to one of those songs. I agree that the intros for some of the songs get long, and unless you're into the theme of the song and the point it's trying to make, the intro really seems to drag. But to say it doesn't change the entire way through besides little subtle changes is dumb.

And on the note of subtle changes, I love how they use those. I love listening to the intros for the long songs and listening for the different moods created by changing such minor things. This is also a thing I love about classical music. No, I'm not comparing Maynard to Gustav Holst, at they're worlds apart, but I sometimes find similar pleasures in Tool as I find in certain classical artists.


I have a good friend who is obsessed with them. I've heard a good 95% of their music, and have made tons of attempts to get into them. I still think that they're an incredibly overrated attempt at being pretentious that fails most of the time. Nieh summed it up very well by saying that the songs are just complicated for the sake of being complicated. They have some good songs, and they're good technical musicians, but most of the time that's all that they are, and it seems that they lack a lot of the ability to write actual songs.


Technical skill is not the same as being able to write a good song. Tool lack that ability most of the time.

I'm pretty sure that all Thomas and I were arguing was the technical skill portion of talent. I don't care if you think Tool can write a good song. I don't care if you hate their music. My point all along was that calling Danny Carey *not talented* is just incorrect.


lol @ ninty man's contributions.

bouncingcoles
06-29-2007, 07:24 AM
[QUOTE=Ninty Man;1024067]I have to agree with thomas about Grohl:

He's nothing special... in fact, I play hard and fast, and I know I need to improve.

A better modern drummer???

Brooks and Chad Wackerman
Josh Freese
Atom Willard
Adam Carson

i wouldnt put adam carson on that list. he isnt THAT good.

bouncingcoles
06-29-2007, 07:27 AM
Technical skill is not the same as being able to write a good song. Tool lack that ability most of the time.

If tool cant write good songs then why do they have a huge following. just because they dont write straight forward verse chorus verse chorus songs doesnt mean they are bad songs. im not a huge tool fan but i know they have more skill and writing songs then any other shitty metal band out their right now.

Llamas
06-29-2007, 07:45 AM
I hate it when morons are on my side. :(


If tool cant write good songs then why do they have a huge following.
Yeah, and Britney Spears had a huge following. And so does Simple Plan. That's a HORRIBLE argument.


just because they dont write straight forward verse chorus verse chorus songs doesnt mean they are bad songs.
This argument is invalid because nobody here said that Tool sucks because they don't do verse chorus verse, or that their music wasn't simple enough.

I think Tool is very talented, but both your arguments blow.

Jakebert
06-29-2007, 09:52 AM
If tool cant write good songs then why do they have a huge following. just because they dont write straight forward verse chorus verse chorus songs doesnt mean they are bad songs. im not a huge tool fan but i know they have more skill and writing songs then any other shitty metal band out their right now.

I could name tons of metal bands that have better songwriting and technical skill than Tool.

You're right though, Tool is the only band to ever do anything besides verse-chorus-verse. That's totally original to them, because genres like progressive rock and post-rock obviously don't exist.

In case you didn't get my sarcasm, tons of bands do the same breaking the formula thing, and do it a lot better than Tool does. I love bands that break that formula.


I think that depends on what appeals to you. Personally, I love the way they write songs. I love the way they usually start off relatively soft and build tension until the final release when they go all out. I can understand how one wouldn't like Maynard's style, but it all just amazes me.

Like I mentioned above, there are tons of bands that do it a lot better than Tool does. Godspeed You! Black Emporer has completly perfected that style of tension.

All About Eve
06-29-2007, 10:13 AM
Porcupine Tree do a lot of the same stuff Tool does; broken formulas, switching time signatures, etc. But they don't do it just because they can. They do it because it adds to the song.

That_Guy91
06-29-2007, 10:36 AM
Wait, you don't think Josh Freese is better than Dave Grohl?

Thomas
06-29-2007, 10:52 AM
Porcupine Tree do a lot of the same stuff Tool does; broken formulas, switching time signatures, etc. But they don't do it just because they can. They do it because it adds to the song.

I think it actually really adds to the song when Tool does it. Odd meters are usually put into the music to create tension, whether the listener realises it or not. People are accustomed to hearing 4/4, 12/8, or 6/8 songs and nothing more because that's what usually flows best. By having 9/8 and 7/8 bars, the listener usually ends up being pulled into the song because of this tension, whether the listener realises it or not. Tool are actually masters of this because they play songs in odd meter but make it flow so well, that the listener half the time doesn't even realise they are listening to a song in an odd meter. For example, the song Schizm, to me, felt like it was simply in 4/4 at first because I didn't pay that much attention. I just noticed how well they made the song flow and assumed it was 4/4 because that's what our ears are trained to listen for. Once I finally started breaking the song down, I realised that the intro is in two bar phrases, the first bar being in 5/8 and the second being in 7/8.

I think my point came across as a little vague, but I hope you all understand what I mean.



Like I mentioned above, there are tons of bands that do it a lot better than Tool does. Godspeed You! Black Emporer has completly perfected that style of tension.

But because you think another band executes it better, does it mean that Tool doesn't execute it well?



Wait, you don't think Josh Freese is better than Dave Grohl?

I was wondering about that, too.

Jakebert
06-29-2007, 01:06 PM
But because you think another band executes it better, does it mean that Tool doesn't execute it well?

The reason I think they do it better is because I don't think Tool does it well at all. The tension that Tool tries to build is barely there, so it just comes off as incredibly repetitive.

DeAtHsTaR
06-29-2007, 01:26 PM
Yeah, and Britney Spears had a huge following. And so does Simple Plan. That's a HORRIBLE argument.
I think a better way to argue it that he should have said would be "They still have a huge following after 15 years"

nieh
06-29-2007, 02:03 PM
I think a better way to argue it that he should have said would be "They still have a huge following after 15 years"

Metallica.

DeAtHsTaR
06-29-2007, 02:32 PM
Metallica.

Metallica's 80s' stuff was fucking amazing. If you disagree, you don't like metal.

coke_a_holic
06-29-2007, 02:57 PM
I don't like metal, then.

HeadAroundU
06-29-2007, 03:45 PM
This thread makes me sad. I think it's excessively off topic. Grohl is a fucking pop-format-song drummer.

I wouldn't laugh at Ninty Man's drummers. Adam Carson is fucking brilliant on Sing The Sorrow. Oh, how I love Josh Freese. Grohl is in this category, I'm not his huge fan but it's obvious why he is loved, he has very strong personality and his drums are dominant on songs. Yeah, there are some differences between those 3 drummers but it's basicaly the same category.

We all know how Endymion is very "Hitler" about music. So it's pretty stupid to argue with him. But I have to admit that Zach/Hill's speed is impressive. It made me smile.

That Tool conversation is annoying. Llamas, I coincidentally listened to Tool the day before, at that time...so I just threw my opinion...

All About Eve
06-29-2007, 07:53 PM
Freese is good, but he's not significantly better than Grohl.

That_Guy91
06-29-2007, 08:10 PM
I'd say he is. I haven't listened to all of Grohl's stuff, but to me, he comes off as kind of generic.

Ninty Man
06-29-2007, 08:35 PM
This thread makes me sad. I think it's excessively off topic. Grohl is a fucking pop-format-song drummer.

I wouldn't laugh at Ninty Man's drummers. Adam Carson is fucking brilliant on Sing The Sorrow. Oh, how I love Josh Freese. Grohl is in this category, I'm not his huge fan but it's obvious why he is loved, he has very strong personality and his drums are dominant on songs. Yeah, there are some differences between those 3 drummers but it's basicaly the same category.

We all know how Endymion is very "Hitler" about music. So it's pretty stupid to argue with him. But I have to admit that Zach/Hill's speed is impressive. It made me smile.

That Tool conversation is annoying. Llamas, I coincidentally listened to Tool the day before, at that time...so I just threw my opinion...


Hey... personally, I think that Carson's style fits EVERYTHING he plays... and he studies jazz... and men... when you study jazz, you have a great and creative drummer just like Carson is...

Freese IS TOTALLY OVER OF GROHL... I must quote his contribution to drum nation VOL 1...he totally OWNS GROHL ASS

IN fact

http://www.drummerworld.com/drummers/Josh_Freese.html

Listen Lagerborg... after that... Grohl is like me... a n00b drummer.

Atom discussion is apart... I think he's good... NOT THAAAAT good... but hey, he plays with style... not the generic boring crap Grohl plays.

Wackerman Brothers: Hey... one played with terry bozzio, the other one plays with tenacious D, Bad religion and is Vandals first choice to sustitute Freese

As I said... I saw Carson live... and he's fucking great... and with style... totally awesome...

And even Ron Welty is better that Carson...

All About Eve
06-29-2007, 08:37 PM
I think Grohl has a lot more style than Freese. Freese has to change to whatever band he's playing with. Grohl's bands are all along the same vein, so he sticks to his style. I know Grohl is overrated, and Freese is good, but I don't think Freese is anything spectacular, especially when compared to Grohl.

I mean, look at the bands Freese is most noted for playing for. The Vandals? A Perfect Circle? There's not anything technically overwhelming about either of those bands.

Ninty Man
06-29-2007, 08:41 PM
I think Grohl has a lot more style than Freese. Freese has to change to whatever band he's playing with. Grohl's bands are all along the same vein, so he sticks to his style. I know Grohl is overrated, and Freese is good, but I don't think Freese is anything spectacular, especially when compared to Grohl.

I mean, look at the bands Freese is most noted for playing for. The Vandals? A Perfect Circle? There's not anything technically overwhelming about either of those bands.

YOU GOTTA BE FUCKING KIDDING ME

http://www.drummerworld.com/drummers/Dave_Grohl.html

LISTEN... just listen to the crap of grohl... I CAN DO THAT, AND I HAVE 7 MONTHS PLAYING DRUMS!!!

And... damn, I fucking hate to prove something again

http://www.drummerworld.com/drummers/Josh_Freese.html

LISTEN... again.. LISTEN

Freese has style... the his own style is that he can play anything, with anyone, anytime. He don't needs to be some KINDA MUSIC drummer... he plays everything and everyone... and you can note it... Fuck, he even play with Sting, and he's in tour with NIN.

Grohl is Overrated, Freese totally rape's Grohl ass. PERIOD

Jakebert
06-29-2007, 08:43 PM
Metallica's 80s' stuff was fucking amazing. If you disagree, you don't like metal.

All of the die-hard metalheads that I know hate Metallica...

Ninty Man
06-29-2007, 08:48 PM
All of the die-hard metalheads that I know hate Metallica...

In my country my friend call them Mierdallica, that is like Shitallica

All About Eve
06-29-2007, 08:54 PM
LISTEN... just listen to the crap of grohl... I CAN DO THAT, AND I HAVE 7 MONTHS PLAYING DRUMS!!!
This means nothing. At all.

Freese has style... the his own style is that he can play anything, with anyone, anytime. He don't needs to be some KINDA MUSIC drummer... he plays everything and everyone... and you can note it... Fuck, he even play with Sting, and he's in tour with NIN.
Neither NiN OR Sting/Police have ever had overwhelming drummers. I think NiN actually used a drum machine for a while.

Grohl is Overrated, Freese totally rape's Grohl ass. PERIOD
I know Grohl is overrated, but Freese isn't that much better.

Compare any average QotSA song to any Vandals or A Perfect Circle song.

Ninty Man
06-29-2007, 09:08 PM
This means nothing. At all.
Nah... nothiing :rolleyes:


Neither NiN OR Sting/Police have ever had overwhelming drummers. I think NiN actually used a drum machine for a while.
I didn't said that... I just point the versatility of Freese


I know Grohl is overrated, but Freese isn't that much better.

Compare any average QotSA song to any Vandals or A Perfect Circle song.

I did that... and Freese is better. MUCH better, creative and with his own cach&#233;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JHUhEmp38ks

Thomas
06-29-2007, 10:48 PM
Neither NiN OR Sting/Police have ever had overwhelming drummers. I think NiN actually used a drum machine for a while.

I know Grohl is overrated, but Freese isn't that much better.

Compare any average QotSA song to any Vandals or A Perfect Circle song.

Okay, I just wanted to say that Sting's drummers (with both the police and his solo work) have always been extremely amazing and extremely overlooked. I don't know how long Freese has been playing with Sting, but I've yet to hear a song sung by Sting that didn't have amazing drum parts. The drummer for The Police is one of the most over-looked drummers of all time. The whole NIN argument shouldn't count, either, because of how recently he joined the band.



ANd as for QUOTSA vs the Vandals or A Perfect Circle, Josh Freese has Grohl beat out BY FAR. I haven't heard too much from the Vandals, but what I have heard has blown me away. ANd A Perfect Circle's drum parts aren't overly spectacular, but still much better than anything Grohl could ever do. Grohl's drumming is extremely generic. It fits the music, but it's still very simple and generic.



btw, drummerworld.com is an excellent place to go to when looking up drummers.

Thomas
06-29-2007, 10:52 PM
I did that... and Freese is better. MUCH better, creative and with his own caché

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JHUhEmp38ks

Yeah, that video basically sums it up. I've seen it before. Look especially at the end. He's not just doing fast rolls anymore. He's diddling between his toms and his bass drums (there's a word for it, but I can't remember at the moment). I have learned that technique (trying to play the solo in Rush's Tom Sawyer) and getting it to that speed is something that not many drummers can do, especially to have it come out that incredibly clean and precise.

nieh
06-29-2007, 10:56 PM
Warren Fitzgerald is a surprisingly impressive guitarist as well.

Ninty Man
06-29-2007, 11:21 PM
Yeah, that video basically sums it up. I've seen it before. Look especially at the end. He's not just doing fast rolls anymore. He's diddling between his toms and his bass drums (there's a word for it, but I can't remember at the moment). I have learned that technique (trying to play the solo in Rush's Tom Sawyer) and getting it to that speed is something that not many drummers can do, especially to have it come out that incredibly clean and precise.

I have to agree with you... for the second time O_O

I mean... I can't tell if I'm better that Grohl... but fuck... I can do that Queen of the stone ages part that he does... and that's not precisely good

Andy
06-30-2007, 09:49 AM
As far as I am concerned, Josh Freese is the best all-around drummer in the world today.

Thomas
06-30-2007, 10:05 AM
As far as I am concerned, Josh Freese is the best all-around drummer in the world today.

Do you mean most versatile? If that's the case, then yes.


I think Jojo Mayer has everyone beat, though.

DeAtHsTaR
06-30-2007, 11:40 AM
All of the die-hard metalheads that I know hate Metallica...

I know a lot that hate Metallica, but if you ask them if they like Kill 'Em All and Ride the Lightning, most of them will say yes.

This is, of course, not the metalheads that only listen to death metal.

EDIT: Here, listen to these songs and say they're not metal.

Fight Fire with Fire (http://youtube.com/watch?v=xjlgUx7_aN0) (Ride the Lightning) Possibly the heaviest song of the era. Just wait for the full band to come in. If this isn't thrash, then neither is Slayer.

Dyer's Eve (http://youtube.com/watch?v=KdOH0PLfa8o) (...And Justice for All) Yes, it has terrible production.

Motorbreath (http://youtube.com/watch?v=LCwDJSFqag8) (Kill 'Em All) Kind of a punk-ish track. Sorry this is the only video I could find of the album version.

nameless
06-30-2007, 08:47 PM
i undertsand peoples perception of dave grohls playing but i think just as you havent been playing for years and years and can apparently already play his parts, its still harsh to label them basic and simple.

i know its not exactly the same thing but im sure many of you wouldnt consider yourselves guitarists but could still play songs by the offspring. nobody jumps on their backs for being simple and basic, at the end of the day it works for the band. im not trying to start a new debate, its just a point in the argument.

fair enough he is not rattling round the kit like josh freese does with the vandals but they are different sounds in terms of the bands. im sure if you all broke down josh freeses parts with the vandals you may find they arent that out of the ordinary, its just how he works them into the song.

i dont see it matters that his parts are apparently basic, the main thing is that they work. i highly doubt there are people here that could have gone and done that session with queens of the stone age. actually rehearsing the song, getting the parts tight, then recording them. maybe im wrong but there must be a few here who just play along with a cd at home, roughly keeping time with it and not paying much attention to actual technique, then feel they can play the song. as i say, im not judging you all and may well be wrong.

it comes down to what works, people may consider tool and DEP to be over the top but their sound works for them.

bands obviously like what he does with his parts as he has done a lot of recording, fair enough, not on the same scale as josh freese but he must be doing something right. it all comes down to opinions i know, but everything isnt necessarily black and white, for example, the parts are simple, therefore he cant be that good. i know part of the point of the thread was about him being overated but as a musiciam he is working with a band and producer and it cant be all about him strutting his stuff at every given opportunity. if he worked with a band like the vandals where there is more freedom in the songs who knows what he may come up with!

Jakebert
06-30-2007, 09:23 PM
I know a lot that hate Metallica, but if you ask them if they like Kill 'Em All and Ride the Lightning, most of them will say yes.

This is, of course, not the metalheads that only listen to death metal.

EDIT: Here, listen to these songs and say they're not metal.

Fight Fire with Fire (http://youtube.com/watch?v=xjlgUx7_aN0) (Ride the Lightning) Possibly the heaviest song of the era. Just wait for the full band to come in. If this isn't thrash, then neither is Slayer.

Dyer's Eve (http://youtube.com/watch?v=KdOH0PLfa8o) (...And Justice for All) Yes, it has terrible production.

Motorbreath (http://youtube.com/watch?v=LCwDJSFqag8) (Kill 'Em All) Kind of a punk-ish track. Sorry this is the only video I could find of the album version.

All of those metalheads I know hate their early albums as much as anything else they did. And they aren't just metalheads that listen only to death metal.

I never once said it wasn't metal, I just said that most metalheads consider it crap.

mrconeman
06-30-2007, 09:41 PM
Metallica's 80s' stuff was fucking amazing. If you disagree, you don't like metal.
You're an immeasurable moron. I'm no metal head, but I do like the odd bit of metal, and I heavily disagree that any early Metallica can be described as "amazing" in anyway. It's fairly standard metal, I mean I actually enjoy some of it, but in a way that I know it's nothing special musically at all.

That and Jakebert is entirely correct, all of the real die hard metal heads I know think Metallica were the first sell-out shitty Metal band. This is of course not what I think, I think they're pretty stupid, but to say that a metal head doesn't like metal because he dislikes Metallica is far more so.

in conclusion, you're an immeasurable moron.

That_Guy91
06-30-2007, 10:19 PM
nameless, your points would be good if we were just Grohl-bashing in general, but the thread was originally about technical skill. I don't think it's been argued whether or not his parts fit the music, but that wasn't the point.

Ninty Man
06-30-2007, 10:26 PM
i undertsand peoples perception of dave grohls playing but i think just as you havent been playing for years and years and can apparently already play his parts, its still harsh to label them basic and simple.

i know its not exactly the same thing but im sure many of you wouldnt consider yourselves guitarists but could still play songs by the offspring. nobody jumps on their backs for being simple and basic, at the end of the day it works for the band. im not trying to start a new debate, its just a point in the argument.

fair enough he is not rattling round the kit like josh freese does with the vandals but they are different sounds in terms of the bands. im sure if you all broke down josh freeses parts with the vandals you may find they arent that out of the ordinary, its just how he works them into the song.

i dont see it matters that his parts are apparently basic, the main thing is that they work. i highly doubt there are people here that could have gone and done that session with queens of the stone age. actually rehearsing the song, getting the parts tight, then recording them. maybe im wrong but there must be a few here who just play along with a cd at home, roughly keeping time with it and not paying much attention to actual technique, then feel they can play the song. as i say, im not judging you all and may well be wrong.

it comes down to what works, people may consider tool and DEP to be over the top but their sound works for them.

bands obviously like what he does with his parts as he has done a lot of recording, fair enough, not on the same scale as josh freese but he must be doing something right. it all comes down to opinions i know, but everything isnt necessarily black and white, for example, the parts are simple, therefore he cant be that good. i know part of the point of the thread was about him being overated but as a musiciam he is working with a band and producer and it cant be all about him strutting his stuff at every given opportunity. if he worked with a band like the vandals where there is more freedom in the songs who knows what he may come up with!

Bleh, you know that a drummer isn't good when he repeats over and over the same...

except for welty, cause we know what is the deal with offspring

DeAtHsTaR
06-30-2007, 10:34 PM
Welty isn't that good. Tehran was the best drumming he ever did, and the drumming in that song was made up by James Lilja.

bd007h
06-30-2007, 11:04 PM
Grohl at about the age of 19-20:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JTNACbdcjsg

Maybe not the greatest, but he's still pretty damn good.

mrconeman
07-01-2007, 07:04 AM
Grohl at about the age of 19-20:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JTNACbdcjsg

Maybe not the greatest, but he's still pretty damn good.

The best thing about this videos was pausing it 1:12 and looking at the bottem right corner of the screen.

That solo was in no way great at all, it was just playing the exact same thing, only at speed.

also, shirt, no shirt, different shirt. He must have done that exact thing three gigs in a row, euw.

To clarify, I'm not bashing Dave, I don't think he sucks, hes a pretty solid rock drummer, but most people and especially Nirvana fans annoy the shit out of me when they say stupid shit like hes the greatest drummer ever, simply because he played for Nirvana, or throws a few nice fills in a couple Queens of the Stone Age songs.

H1T_That
07-01-2007, 07:41 AM
The best thing about this videos was pausing it 1:12 and looking at the bottem right corner of the screen.



BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

What a total legend.

Thomas
07-01-2007, 09:17 AM
That solo had nothing difficult about it. That wasn't even that fast (which many people think defines a good drummer), so I don't understand why people are drooling over him.

Llamas
07-01-2007, 09:29 AM
If anything, that video makes me like Dave Grohl less.

I don't like him, but I believe he's at least better than in that video.

Andy
07-01-2007, 09:32 AM
The best thing about this videos was pausing it 1:12 and looking at the bottem right corner of the screen.

Love it. Love it. Love. It.

Jakebert
07-01-2007, 09:35 AM
I had a feeling bd007h would show up in this thread, defending blandness in all it's glory.

Thomas
07-01-2007, 09:53 AM
I had a feeling bd007h would show up in this thread, defending blandness in all it's glory.

I remember way back when he used to always claim that Dave Grohl was some kind of God. I think I proved him wrong every time, but I don't remember.

Jakebert
07-01-2007, 10:16 AM
I remember when I said Third Eye Blind sucks, and he posted the lyrics to like 4 songs and kept going "how can you say THIS sucks?!?!?!" even though the lyrics were incredibly generic.

Llamas
07-01-2007, 10:29 AM
lol! I kinda like Third Eye Blind's first album... the last three songs were well written. But posting LYRICS to prove they're a good band??? Their lyrics are total shit... the second worst part about them, right after their live performances.

Thomas
07-01-2007, 11:50 AM
I wonder if that's why he hasn't been here as much lately.

bd007h
07-01-2007, 02:10 PM
I wonder if that's why he hasn't been here as much lately.

No, I've just found better things to do with my time.

coke_a_holic
07-01-2007, 02:20 PM
Lurk moar.

EDIT: Besides, everyone knows that Jeff Rosenstock (http://www.quoteunquoterecords.com/qur002/13.mp3) is the best drummer.

JohnnyNemesis
07-01-2007, 02:21 PM
I love Dave Grohl, but I don't think he's particularly talented in any one area; he's just really good at lots of different things, and the results are pretty awesome (I still love the Foo Fighters even though I never listen to them. That self-titled album still blows my fucking mind).

But yeah, I feel cheated in this thread because no Dave Grohl thread is complete without a bd007h blowjob :(

Oh, and that video was fucking awesome. 1:12 ftw.

HeadAroundU
07-01-2007, 03:28 PM
Freese IS TOTALLY OVER OF GROHL... I must quote his contribution to drum nation VOL 1...he totally OWNS GROHL ASS

IN fact

http://www.drummerworld.com/drummers/Josh_Freese.html

Listen Lagerborg... after that... Grohl is like me... a n00b drummer.
Yeah, Lagerborg is delicious.

But you are an idiot. You'll never ever be like Grohl, you'll never ever sell that many records and you'll never ever be able to create so egocentric, mind-blowing and "simple" hard-hitting stuff.

You can play 'In Bloom' on your shitty drums but you will never ever be able create such a unforgettable drums.

nameless
07-01-2007, 03:57 PM
nameless, your points would be good if we were just Grohl-bashing in general, but the thread was originally about technical skill. I don't think it's been argued whether or not his parts fit the music, but that wasn't the point.

not every drummer throws all their technical ability and musical knowledge into songs and everything they do. i see your point but you could argue the same thing about loads of other drummers as well!

people kept saying they could play all the parts he does, you may feel i went off topic but i was just trying to prove their are factors that shaped his recordings, personally i like what he did on know one knows and think its a good standard.

just because he doesnt strut his stuff with all his techincal skill doesnt mean he cant play to a decent standard!

Jebus
07-01-2007, 04:06 PM
EDIT: Besides, everyone knows that Jeff Rosenstock (http://www.quoteunquoterecords.com/qur002/13.mp3) is the best drummer.
Moar of this plz! It's been a while since I've heard so much awesome blast through my speakers.

mrconeman
07-01-2007, 04:27 PM
Yeah, Lagerborg is delicious.

But you are an idiot. You'll never ever be like Grohl, you'll never ever sell that many records and you'll never ever be able to create so egocentric, mind-blowing and "simple" hard-hitting stuff.

You can play 'In Bloom' on your shitty drums but you will never ever be able create such a unforgettable drums.
This was as retarded as the post it de-bunked.

H1T_That
07-01-2007, 04:31 PM
God, i love coneman.

That_Guy91
07-01-2007, 07:35 PM
not every drummer throws all their technical ability and musical knowledge into songs and everything they do. i see your point but you could argue the same thing about loads of other drummers as well!

people kept saying they could play all the parts he does, you may feel i went off topic but i was just trying to prove their are factors that shaped his recordings, personally i like what he did on know one knows and think its a good standard.

just because he doesnt strut his stuff with all his techincal skill doesnt mean he cant play to a decent standard!

Well, the thread is about people's opinions of his technical ability based on those recordings. Thomas was saying that people thought Grohl was an amazing drummer from listening to his work with Nirvana and other published material. For all we know, he could be an amazing drummer, but we're using what we have heard, and you can't just assume he's better than that just because you hope so.

And just for the record, nobody said he was bad (except ninty man). The point was that he's overrated.

T-6005
07-01-2007, 07:43 PM
Who plays the beginning of Queens of the Stone Age - Song For The Dead?

I don't care how technically awesome it is (because it's not), but that is one of my favorite drum parts ever. The placing of everything just makes me get into the song before the main part's ever started.

Llamas
07-01-2007, 07:45 PM
The placing of everything just makes me get into the song before the main part's ever started.

I totally read that as "man's parts" and I loled.... it's late.

bd007h
07-01-2007, 07:48 PM
Who plays the beginning of Queens of the Stone Age - Song For The Dead?

I don't care how technically awesome it is (because it's not), but that is one of my favorite drum parts ever. The placing of everything just makes me get into the song before the main part's ever started.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=L7tCTQkOSi8

I believe he did the studio recording too


Here's QOTSA's current drummer Joey Castillo playing it with them in 2003:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=V9QeIxwfBes

Jakebert
07-01-2007, 07:49 PM
No, I've just found better things to do with my time.

Oh, you've found another place to be a virgin?

Oh, and just to keep this post not completely off topic, I really like Steve Shelley from Sonic Youth's style. It's not mindblowingly technical or anything, but it sounds good.

coke_a_holic
07-01-2007, 07:52 PM
Moar of this plz! It's been a while since I've heard so much awesome blast through my speakers.

It's all for free! I've bumped my own thread twice for him, but no one will listen! The band is Bomb The Music Industry!, the song is King Of Minneapolis pts. III and IV. It's really just one guy, a guitar, synthesizer and a drum machine, but the new cd will have a real band. He's my hero. http://www.offspring.com/forums/showthread.php?t=28241&highlight=btmi

HeadAroundU
07-01-2007, 08:04 PM
This was as retarded as the post it de-bunked.
Thanks for the great contribution to this thread. :rolleyes:

That_Guy91
07-01-2007, 08:20 PM
Thanks for the great contribution to this thread. :rolleyes:

Trust me, it was better than yours.

Llamas
07-01-2007, 09:18 PM
I was surfing around youtube looking for a certain version of Malaguena, and ended up coming across some Blast! videos... and the moment I started watching this one, I thought of this thread. I thought about making a separate thread for Blast!, but I thought for now I'll just post it here.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=186Fdc59tWY&mode=related&search=

For those of you who don't know what Blast! is, it's kind of like professional marching band. Like big division 1 US marching bands, it's about 60% about show and 40% about music. This video is just a "battery battle", and a lot of it again is show, which is totally amazing. But the drumming abilities of these guys is mind boggling. I wish I could play snare like that. And I need to see Blast! again sometime...

But yeah. I'd like to see Dave Grohl do that. ;) I'm just being an ass. But srsly.

T-6005
07-01-2007, 09:32 PM
Mr I posted the video.

I didn't watch it, but I wouldn't know who it was even if I did. Please give me a name.

bd007h
07-01-2007, 11:09 PM
Mr I posted the video.

I didn't watch it, but I wouldn't know who it was even if I did. Please give me a name.


It was Dave Grohl

Homer
07-02-2007, 12:53 AM
Just recently I've discovered Assaf Seewi (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bxrQXabBxvY). I can't describe it... it's just... too awesome.

Anyways, yeah, I don't understand why people think Dave Grohl is amazing, and if you're looking for a drummer in the same area as Grohl, I recommend Brooks Wackerman (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Nb3BpB-aZU). Watch at around 3:15 of that video if you don't want to bother with the rest. Anyways, yeah, I learned a lot of stuff from his drumming.

Jebus
07-02-2007, 04:32 AM
So yeah, I agree with Thomas. Don't see why Dave is looked upon with such grandiose admiration when there's tons of better drummers. I'll admit that he does fit in perfectly for the type of stuff he plays and he does it quite well, but I think that's where the problem lies. His niche doesn't really require him to play "outside the box" and I don't think anybody should really expect him to since it wouldn't fit. Actually, it seems like it's more of a problem with mainstream music in general than with Grohl specifically.

Oh, I don't think I've whored or even mentioned Dream Theater in months, so I need to catch up to my whoring quota.

The thing I've noticed and like about Mike Portnoy, is that he doesn't play straight forward beats as much as he plays along with the melodies for whatever song he's playing.
Like here. He doesn't really play fast at all, but his overall drumming is just really interesting to listen to.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qu_ikrNN780
(This is just the first part of the song Change of Seasons. You could search for the remaining three parts if you want to)


and here's this little solo bit he does at the end of Finally Free that I've always liked. Starts at 1:30.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0b5AuXPAT9k

nieh
07-02-2007, 11:03 AM
I disagree. They have a lot of those elements in their songs. Just from the top of my head, the song Parabola progresses, builds tension, and releases. It also changes melody, maybe key signature, but I'm not sure. I'll have to listen to it again. And throughout all this changing, they still retain the same mood and are very musical about everything. And that's just one song.

Have you ever paid attention to Soundgarden? I don't mean to sound pompous with that question, I meant it sincerely. I only started really paying attention to them in the last couple months. Anyway, Black Hole Sun is the only hit song of theirs that's in straight 4/4 time. The Day I Tried to Live is in 15/8, Fell on Black Days is in 6/8, Spoonman switches between 7/4 and 4/4, and in regards to non-hits, the second half of Face Pollution has more time changes than I'm able to keep track of. I never noticed how odd their time signatures were until it was pointed out to me because they sound totally natural. None of that really matters though because Jesus Christ Pose is in straight 4/4 and it still builds and intensifies better than any Tool song.

Llamas
07-02-2007, 11:32 AM
I really, really like Soundgarden. They had a lot of talent, and used time signatures very well. I don't think Tool uses time signature changes BETTER than Soundgarden, but they both use them differently to create very different moods. I'd say both use them equally within a song.

The difficulty of the time sig changes in Tool songs is greater than that in Soundgarden songs, though. Soundgarden did use strange time signatures, but I can't think of any songs that went through 4 or 5 time signatures in one song, and jumped around between clashing time signatures (which Tool somehow makes sound flowing).

Soundgarden didn't really use dynamics much. Most of their songs were pretty much the same dynamic the whole way through. Sure, there are bridges or solos or such that are a bit quieter, but they're only quieter because less instruments are playing. They're not really dynamic.

The tensions, releases, and goosebumps I feel from Tool songs are partially created by time signatures, yes, but many things play together. Just the TS's wouldn't do it. Time sigs, key changes (which Soundgarden doesn't stick out to me as using), huge dynamic changes, etc, etc, etc all work together. Yes, other bands do this, and I doubt anyone was trying to say that no other bands do this. I don't think that Tool is the best band ever, or that the members of the band are the greatest musicians ever, so I'm still not sure why people are trying to prove that there are bands that are better.

mrconeman
07-02-2007, 01:27 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=186Fdc59tWY&mode=related&search=


O.K I now need to re-evaluate all things I've ever known in comparison to this. That was amazing.

T-6005
07-02-2007, 01:49 PM
That was indeed pretty cool, although I didn't get into it until about 4 minutes in.

Llamas
07-02-2007, 02:10 PM
Yeah, it takes a while. The initial guy with the snare is cool, but if it was just gonna be 9 minutes of that... I'da x'd it. But my favorite part is the blindfolded part where they all switch kits while blindfolded and know where the drums are exactly and such.

nameless
07-02-2007, 04:24 PM
Well, the thread is about people's opinions of his technical ability based on those recordings. Thomas was saying that people thought Grohl was an amazing drummer from listening to his work with Nirvana and other published material. For all we know, he could be an amazing drummer, but we're using what we have heard, and you can't just assume he's better than that just because you hope so.

And just for the record, nobody said he was bad (except ninty man). The point was that he's overrated.

i dont really assume hes better and hope that he is. i feel some of the criticism in other peoples posts along the lines of, well i can do that, its not difficult etc. were harsh and theres more to music than that. but fair play, i see what your saying about the thread, i just dont totally agree with the opinions of him people have posted.

Ninty Man
07-08-2007, 09:08 PM
Yeah, Lagerborg is delicious.

But you are an idiot. You'll never ever be like Grohl, you'll never ever sell that many records and you'll never ever be able to create so egocentric, mind-blowing and "simple" hard-hitting stuff.

You can play 'In Bloom' on your shitty drums but you will never ever be able create such a unforgettable drums.

LOL... maybe I won't be famous... but I can kick his ass anytime

HeadAroundU
07-09-2007, 06:22 AM
Trust me, it was better than yours.
Did you already come out of your brother's shadow?

LOL... maybe I won't be famous... but I can kick his ass anytime
LOL, you can't. You are an idiot.

Oh, and this thread needs more of Dream Threater, drum battles and shit like that. :rolleyes:

All About Eve
07-09-2007, 07:29 AM
Oh, and this thread needs more of Dream Threater, drum battles and shit like that. :rolleyes:
I'm not familiar with Dream Threater.

Thomas
07-09-2007, 08:26 AM
Yeah, Mike Portnoy is extremely good drummer. I just don't think he's as good as everyone says.

That_Guy91
07-09-2007, 08:36 AM
Did you already come out of your brother's shadow?

I know, the fact that my brother posts here makes me wrong.

Thomas
07-09-2007, 11:37 AM
And twice the loser of anyone else here.

That_Guy91
07-09-2007, 01:41 PM
:'( .

Ninty Man
07-09-2007, 10:22 PM
Did you already come out of your brother's shadow?

LOL, you can't. You are an idiot.

Oh, and this thread needs more of Dream Threater, drum battles and shit like that. :rolleyes:


Yes, I can, and you're a lametard XD

BTW: Portnoy is great... but he is not better that Bozzio

Thomas
07-09-2007, 10:28 PM
:'( .

You aren't helping your case much.

Endymion
07-09-2007, 11:28 PM
yes he is, he's amazing and awesome rolled into one. you? you're a turd sandwich.

JohnnyNemesis
07-09-2007, 11:57 PM
with tomato like in the original prankster video! oh SNAP!