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~!@#$_Rabble4life_$#@!~
09-02-2007, 08:06 PM
yah i Know it happned 8 years ago, but im pretty shure theres no thread, i just searched. but ya i just watched a video on it on youtube, and i think im gonna throw up, those guys were just sick. feel free to comment i cant talk no more about it

wheelchairman
09-02-2007, 08:13 PM
Holy crap that happened 8 years ago? :(

~!@#$_Rabble4life_$#@!~
09-02-2007, 09:16 PM
ya if you search you tube theres a show called "Zero Hour" and i know its got more than 8 parts because thats the highest i saw in related

SkunkIt
09-03-2007, 12:51 AM
Shoot the kids at school,
All in a bloody pool,
I'll show the teachers too,
'Cuz they can't tell me what to do,

* getting C's and D's
Saying "thanks and please"
Yer broke the golden rules,
Yer staying after school,

Life is real estate,
To the ones I hate,
Cops say you just refrain,
From squattin', drinkin', and hoppin' trains

Drink but don't drink this,
It aint beer it's piss,
Rock the 40oz.,
It's the change that counts,
When we get there on the train,
We'll get some booze and start again,

Living in the past, Goin' nowhere fast,
Jesus has a place for me,
A life of sin and infamy,

Droppin' out of school,
Teacher is a fool,
So yer run away,
Livin' day to day,

Doin' whatcha gotta do,
And what makes you happy too,

* Fallin' prey to drugs,
Sportin' body bugs,
Rock the 40oz.
It's the change that counts,

Just don't get locked up in jail,
'Cuz no ones gonna have the bail,
Takin' time to break the laws,
& then I'll lick my dirty paws,
Dodging all the lies I'm fed,
I'll live my life and then I'm dead

That didn't happen eight years ago, it happened six years ago, when I was 13. I remember, because I lived in Colorado and I was in high school, so some of my relatives called to see if me and my bropther were ok, even though we didn't go to that school.

Twinkle
09-03-2007, 07:17 AM
Wow. I remember that day. April 20, 1999, so yeah, that'd be about 8 years ago. I just remember being terrified of going back to my school...I was afraid it would happen to us. I was only 9, so I barely grasped how horrible the situation was and how it could have been prevented. Years later, I read a heartbreaking book called She Said Yes by the mother of one of the deceased students. Apparently, religion played a factor in the shooting, as Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold, the shooters, were atheists. The girl was shot because she said she believed in God. Columbine was a tragic event, and unfortunately, more of those tragedies have occurred since then. And as we all know, those shootings don't just take place in high schools, but college campuses as well. Recently, I read Nineteen Minutes by Jodi Picoult. It's a novel about a school shooting, and all the emotions that surround one. It even allows you to get into the shooter's mind. It's a great book. I'd recommend reading it to anyone. I think there's a movie, Elefant, that is loosely based on the Columbine event. The sad thing is, there were ways to prevent that shooting, but people waited too long to say anything, and that is the real tragedy. RIP: Cassie Bernall (which that book is about), Corey DePooter, Matt Kechter, Daniel Rohrbough, Isaiah Shoels, Lauren Townsend, Steve Kurnow, Kelly Fleming, Daniel Mauser, Rachel Scott, John Tomlin, Kyle Velasquez, Dave Sanders, Eric Harris, and Dylan Klebold.

nieh
09-03-2007, 07:39 AM
Apparently, religion played a factor in the shooting, as Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold, the shooters, were atheists. The girl was shot because she said she believed in God.

No, they would've shot the school up even if everyone else in the building was also atheist. They just thought asking "do you believe in god" was something badass sounding to ask before shooting someone. The sad thing about Columbine, and school shootings in general, (aside from the obvious, people dying) is that it could've been one of those blessings in disguise. It could've taught people that everyone has a breaking point and to start treating everyone, even the 'freaks' with at least some degree of respect. Instead people reacted to it by picking on people even more, singling out the goths and beating the shit out of them because they were afraid it would happen at their school too and somehow they believed that picking on someone MORE would somehow make them LESS likely to snap and start shooting. And then of course there's the typical finger pointing that comes with stuff like that where no one wants to accept that they could've prevented it and wants to throw blame at easy targets like video games or music.

wheelchairman
09-03-2007, 10:32 AM
Yeah Nieh really summed up everything sickening about people's concept of these shootings. That is I mean, that everyone chooses to ignore the obvious.

JohnnyNemesis
09-03-2007, 10:36 AM
Reading Twinkle's post honestly and truly annoyed the fuck out of me.


No, they would've shot the school up even if everyone else in the building was also atheist. They just thought asking "do you believe in god" was something badass sounding to ask before shooting someone. The sad thing about Columbine, and school shootings in general, (aside from the obvious, people dying) is that it could've been one of those blessings in disguise. It could've taught people that everyone has a breaking point and to start treating everyone, even the 'freaks' with at least some degree of respect. Instead people reacted to it by picking on people even more, singling out the goths and beating the shit out of them because they were afraid it would happen at their school too and somehow they believed that picking on someone MORE would somehow make them LESS likely to snap and start shooting. And then of course there's the typical finger pointing that comes with stuff like that where no one wants to accept that they could've prevented it and wants to throw blame at easy targets like video games or music.

YES.

Tizzalicious
09-03-2007, 10:41 AM
Nieh is very right, and I couldn't agree with Ricky more.

You can't get into the shooters mind unless HE wrote the book. What the fuck.

Paint_It_Black
09-03-2007, 10:48 AM
Reading Twinkle's post honestly and truly annoyed the fuck out of me.

You could have just said "I read Twinkle's post".

Only a Christian would think that religion was a factor based on the facts presented in this case. And only the type of Christians who consider Atheists to be more or less the same as Satanists. A type of Christian all too prevalent in the good ol' US of A.

I read Twinkle's post.

Edit: Besides, everyone knows that Marilyn Manson and video games caused this tragedy. Global warming probably was involved too.

mrconeman
09-03-2007, 10:52 AM
I read Twinkle's post.
I genuinely hope this becomes one of those shiny golden bbs trends, because that was amazing.


And yeah, those books to me just sounded like severe idiots spouting opinionated bullshit based on their religious beliefs, trying to blame shitty situations like this on everything but the actual cause, oh and making some money.

JohnnyNemesis
09-03-2007, 10:53 AM
I genuinely hope this becomes one of those shiny golden bbs trends, because that was amazing.

I agree, no_way is fucking annoying.

Funny how I both started and ended that one. I are lame.

0r4ng3
09-03-2007, 10:58 AM
I are lame.
and girls ~gno it!!

Paint_It_Black
09-03-2007, 10:58 AM
And yeah, those books to me just sounded like severe idiots spouting opinionated bullshit based on their religious beliefs, trying to blame shitty situations like this on everything but the actual cause, oh and making some money.

It depends how you define "idiots". I'd like to dismiss them as such, yet they have an incredible talent when it comes to propaganda. They're frighteningly good at what they do.

mrconeman
09-03-2007, 11:02 AM
Oh, that's true. I would say it's the opinionated bullshit, and the spreading of it that's idiotic, rather than their uncanny ability to create it and do so.

JohnnyNemesis
09-03-2007, 11:06 AM
Plenty of idiots are good at what they do, though. I'd still call 'em idiots, personally. Most of the people I know around here think I'm anything but an idiot, and maybe I'm not, but there are plenty of things that "stupid" people can do a helluva lot better than I can. Blah blah blah, this is one of my classic "stating the obvious 'cause I wanna clarify something you already know" posts.

Paint_It_Black
09-03-2007, 11:14 AM
Well, I really just wanted to point out that idiots shouldn't be underestimated simply because they're idiots. It's a mistake to assume that idiotic people are also stupid. Again, this is tricky when it comes to definition, but I'm sure my point is clear.

wheelchairman
09-03-2007, 11:20 AM
I wouldn't call them idiots. I would call them and their readership, bottomfeeders. That's generally how I feel about it.

sKratch
09-03-2007, 11:24 AM
I still think goth fags should get beat up if they're goth fags.

JohnnyNemesis
09-03-2007, 11:25 AM
No one will ever understand how much I love that and all of your posts.

wheelchairman
09-03-2007, 11:30 AM
I still think goth fags should get beat up if they're goth fags.

I know this is a joke and I do agree. But do they become goths because they're already miserable and ostracized or are they miserable and ostracized because they are goths?

Not that I'm making a plea for them. It's just that bullying seems to be a more integral part of the American school system than that I've experienced in Europe. I don't remember ever seeing a goth in Denmark.

mrconeman
09-03-2007, 11:42 AM
In my experiance they become goths because they get into some 'darker' music than the mainstream, or the norm. So they think it's cool to wear black and chains and all the rest of it, and act like they are miserable. Then they get bullied for being 'weird'. But by this stage they've grown proud of their differences and are stubborn to change, so they take the rest of the goth persona too. Which leads to more bullying. A bit of a cycle really.

And I'm by no means saying that getting into dark/heavy music will ALWAYS lead to becoming a goth.

RickyCrack
09-03-2007, 11:44 AM
I'm already a respected member on the Linkin Park forums.

I'm way too goth for this forum.

khaaaaan
09-03-2007, 11:52 AM
w0rd !

HeadAroundU
09-03-2007, 12:05 PM
And I'm by no means saying that getting into dark/heavy music will ALWAYS lead to becoming a goth.
Oh, noez. I better stop listening to AFI. :( :(

:( :(

JoY
09-03-2007, 12:12 PM
I know this is a joke and I do agree. But do they become goths because they're already miserable and ostracized or are they miserable and ostracized because they are goths?

Not that I'm making a plea for them. It's just that bullying seems to be a more integral part of the American school system than that I've experienced in Europe. I don't remember ever seeing a goth in Denmark.

I've asked myself the same question. I'd say it's a bit of a chicken/egg problem, but I do know from experience that in more depressing days, I suddenly understood the love some cherish towards dark depressing music quite a bit better. not completely, if you feel me, but better. if you feel singled out, isolated & cornered by a large group of people, your defense mode automatically kinda tells you to dislike whatever they like. it's kind of the only way you can get back at them, because it's not like you can actually change anything about a large group of people hating your guts, if it's not something you can control. so mainstream, popular stuff becomes a no no, childish shit like that. & if you can't group with the majority of people, be among them, whatever, I don't know how to explain this, without sounding like a total ridiculously childish teenager, you kind of hold on things & people that seem to be in the same category; singled out & possibly also miserable.

because, well, it's not like people actually choose, let alone like to be miserable.

wheelchairman
09-03-2007, 12:14 PM
I think some people are attracted to the idea of playing the rogue/martyr. You see it all the time here when people complain about a "bbs upper class" oppressing them.

Paint_It_Black
09-03-2007, 12:17 PM
because, well, it's not like people actually choose, let alone like to be miserable.

I'm not entirely sure that's always true. It seems like such an obviously correct statement, yet somehow I deeply disagree. Sometimes depression can feel like an old friend, and being miserable can feel like a safer choice than taking the immense risk involved in trying to be happy.

I'm reminded of a favourite lyric of mine: Now I've swam back down again it's worse than it was before; If I hadn't seen such riches I could live with being poor.

Plus there are obviously people who get off on physical pain. It's not hard to imagine people getting off on emotional pain either.

Kasavin
09-03-2007, 12:17 PM
because, well, it's not like people actually choose, let alone like to be miserable.

Well, not exactly, at least in my mind. A lot of people like being miserable; they like letting other people know it, so they can recognize and feel sorry for them. It's hard to explain, but some people just get a lot of satisfaction out of being miserable. They like feeling sorry for themselves and stuff like that. They like alluding themselves to the fact that, no matter what they do, no matter what happense, they will always be miserable and unhappy, so they must accept it to a certain extent.

JoY
09-03-2007, 12:28 PM
Per; well, that's true. but I guess that some people are just quicker to do that shit in some sort of defense against no particular attack at all, just if they've felt ignored too long & lack that sweet taste of attention. if some just don't seem to fit in, they start feeling offended & attacked & play the outcast that doesn't even want to hang with their "group", like they made a conscious choice to be a total miserable pile of loneliness dressed in dark clothes. it at least went that way here in high school & this place often reminds of high school.

you don't go playing the martyr, if you can be the hero & total stud. but if you can't be the hero/total stud, some choose to play the martyr, I suppose because it makes them feel less.. small. or meaningless. kind of a paradox, actually. but hey, it does seem to work in some ways for some people, because they do get some form of attention most of the time. even if it's just annoyance.

wheelchairman
09-03-2007, 12:32 PM
They probably think they are playing the stud. Then they just wonder why they can't seem to get chicks. Our media floods us with the stories of small people turning out to be exceptional (or more adequately said, discovered by someone else as being exceptional.) We got it from Star Wars to the Matrix. They're just waiting to be discovered.

Although I by no means mean that this includes all goths.

JoY
09-03-2007, 12:44 PM
Per; the more prone you are to feel small/meaningless, the more you will do to present yourself as an unique individual, I guess. much more unique, colourful & meaningful than all those "regular" people.

or, of course, if others really do make you feel small & meaningless enough. it's not like everyone who feels small, is someone just more likely to feel that way. I can imagine, if I think back to some of the complete total outcasts in my high school, that some of them never would've felt so worthless, if it wouldn't have been for endless confirmations of others that they actually were. & that some of them would've acted much more normally, if they hadn't been so isolated, tried so hard to be noticed & felt so "different", that they started to live up to the image.

edit; Richard, as for people who like to maintain a close friendship with misery; I don't know about you, but I usually only maintain close friendships with those I've known the longest, the best & the most intense. God knows I once would've said being happy is scary, because happiness can be fragile, but looking back I'd say being miserable was a whole lot more scary. & of course I'm still sometimes scared I'll lose everything that's going for me, hell, I regularly have nightmares about it, but at least now I'm scared to lose something I have. I used to be scared to never ever get to know what it even was.

JoY
09-03-2007, 12:47 PM
I am just WAITING for someone to walk in with a sad face & post; "yeah, that's just like me!:( "

lolz, martyr.

khaaaaan
09-03-2007, 12:50 PM
Yeah, that's just like me!:(


Khaaaaan delivers.

JoY
09-03-2007, 12:59 PM
tnk u. :)

nieh
09-03-2007, 01:01 PM
So basically what Bella's trying to say is that with some positive reinforcement, Noodlesfan could become positive member of society.

Paint_It_Black
09-03-2007, 01:04 PM
with some positive reinforcement, Noodlesfan could become positive member of society.

I almost thought that once, before I actually paid some close attention to him.

Endymion
09-03-2007, 02:11 PM
it's no wonder that kids shoot up schools when (thanks to douchebags like rabble) they'll have more space in history books than caesar.

Betty
09-03-2007, 02:26 PM
I'm so glad that I'm past that whole elementary school/high school phase. Not that I ever really bought into it, but I had to co-exist with it.

That's going to be one of the really frustrating things about raising kids. Having to observe all of the cruel stupid ways that kids judge other kids and all of the superficiality that comes with it, without being able to control any of it. And it'll have to be a balance between raising my kids to become unique individuals and not care what others think, and helping them to fit in to an extent because no matter how great a person you are, kids will ostracize you if you're too different.

Little_Miss_1565
09-03-2007, 02:57 PM
LOL, I just realized that Endy and Ninthy are fagtwinz. 3sum?

Anyway, as it seems I'm the only recovering goth here, I'll weigh in about why I went the way of black clothes and lots of eyeliner. I was always the weird kid in class. My mom is an artist and comes from a family of artists and musicians and that's the side I take after, my dad left when I was 12, boo hoo *cutes wrists*. I was really insecure since no one but my mom seemed to think that anything I liked to do was worthwhile, like make music and arty things and listen to the Cure. If my classmates weren't going to like me for whatever reason, why not get really self-consciously weird and do all I can to freak them out? Then, seeing other weird freaky kids at school, we'd immediately have something in common and could easily make friends. Of course, I had the misfortune of being a trouble goth kid when Columbine happened. That sucked.

The only hitch to that is that goth kids, even to other goth kids, are fucking annoying. By the time I was a senior in high school, I'd pretty much outgrown it. But, I still listen to all that music and love every fucking second of it. Hail Satan.

JoY
09-03-2007, 03:40 PM
So basically what Bella's trying to say is that with some positive reinforcement, Noodlesfan could become positive member of society.

no, just less miserable. maybe. or he just is this way & then, well, whatever. everyone fills the spot of some kind of role in society, but a lot of people don't have such a comfortable position that they can choose what spot that is. but no matter what position you end up in, it's always the easiest to end up doing what is expected from you in that position. if it's something you had the liberty to choose, yeah sure, no hassle. but if you happen to be seen as the total freakshow, adjusting to that picture, living up to the expectencies, makes it a whole lot easier to live with the fact you've been forced to take that position in social life. it's that, or fighting the image people have of you. & even if the image people have of you doesn't suit you, it can be a whole buttload of work to make that clear to them.

edit; & sometimes positive reinforcement is not giving a positive reaction to something positive someone does/accomplishes, like the "wow kewl4u" reaction. sometimes you just don't want people to be surprised that you could even do that, but you want them to nod & think they think you had it always in you. at least, that's how it often works for me. sure I like to surprise people, but only, or mostly when I've also surprised myself.

killer_queen
09-03-2007, 04:22 PM
Plus there are obviously people who get off on physical pain. It's not hard to imagine people getting off on emotional pain either.
Oh, there are, there certainly are a lot of people like that. First I read about one in one of Steinbeck's novel and thought it couldn't be real. Unfortunately I met a girl like that in high school and I can't think of a moment that I spent without thinking about slapping her. When she couldn't find something tofeel terrible about she remembered the awful things that have happened to her and kept on being miserable. If you meet someone like that the best thing to do is running away.

Some people claim that I do it too but that's not true. I do that sort of things to get attention from my family.

dexandnoodles
09-03-2007, 04:41 PM
you guys heard of the bailey one right? yep..i was in that one..