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View Full Version : Politicians say the darndest things!



Sunny
10-16-2007, 04:48 PM
i found this oldie-but-goodie on my sister-in-law's facebook.

"Without God, there is no virtue because there is no prompting of the conscience. Without God we are mired in the material, that flat world that tells us only what the senses perceive. Without God there is a coarsening of the society. Without God democracy will not and cannot long endure. And that, simply, is the heart of my message: if we ever forget that we are One Nation Under God, then we will be a nation gone under." - Ronald Reagan

discuss.

SaiKYoU
10-17-2007, 07:20 AM
"if we ever forget that we are One Nation Under God, then we will be a nation gone under"

something similar said a guy who "ruled" my country from 1939 fo 1978...

Sin Studly
10-17-2007, 07:54 AM
To be fair on him, that might have been prompted by mobs of anarchists torturing priests and nuns to death.

And Sunny, weak. This thread needs some Zhirinovsky for some awesome quotage.

HeadAroundU
10-17-2007, 09:06 AM
So, what's that "God"? :D

The shadow
10-20-2007, 05:54 PM
Well, I'm not a very religious person myself, but I think he was right. I do believe religion is necessary in any democracy, especially modern ones; mainly because democracy requires people to believe in it just like religion requires absolute faith in God in order to make the system work. Democracy, communism, fundamentalism, they all break apart whenever people stop believing the system they're living in is the only one able to guarantee their future happiness, so a country whose citizens don't even pray regularly and don't commit themselves strong enough to their beliefs can't expect to have enough faith in democracy to overcome the hard times that might, and usally will, dissapoint them.

Now, I'm not defending extreme interpretations of Reagan's words, nor extremely religious people, nor am I saying we as a society should pray more and stuff; I'm merely saying a certain balance must be achieved and religion must not be regarded as useless in politics and specially in government.

And I'm not comparing Democracy with other political systems either, I'm comparing it with the feeling that has been able to maintain religion for houndreds of thousands of years: to believe in the system, to believe in something, to believe in a promise, to believe you're on the right path and "they" are not.

wheelchairman
10-20-2007, 07:13 PM
I've never met an American who believed in it's political system. I mean they believe it exists and that it does things.

But most people are downright cynical. And I can't say I blame them.

The shadow
10-20-2007, 08:09 PM
I like to think that there are a lot of people left still believing in the system, but most of the time I would be happy if people at least understood how their government works, or should work.

wheelchairman
10-20-2007, 08:19 PM
I like to think that there are a lot of people left still believing in the system, but most of the time I would be happy if people at least understood how their government works, or should work.

But believing has nothing to do with it. This isn't Santa Claus. There is much more involved in preserving a system than mainting a belief. Or else the government would try much harder to prove that it cares what we think. Instead of shitting all over us. Do you truly belief in the US Government? That they have our best interests at heart? That they care about the things we care about? That we as a nation from coast to coast can function as a single entity with the same morals and views of right and wrong?

No that's foolish. The government won't collapse if people stopped believing, or else they would try so much harder to get people voting. Politics would be simplified and explained to people, and people would become engaged in th system. The divide between Washington D.C. and the country, the government and the people is enormous.

No that faith is meaningless. There are other explanations for the preservation of this system and the collapse of others. (Mainly that this one seems to have a higher rate of satisfaction.) Actually, I would reverse that. (Mainly that this one seems to have a lower-rate of dissatisfaction.) And that low-rate is what would prevent a revolt? But was there a revolt in the former Soviet Union? Some places yes.

No, you're theory makes no sense. Faith should have nothing to do with government.

Sin Studly
10-21-2007, 10:12 PM
Blah blah blah boring, can we get some Zhirinovsky up in here? He offered to have Condoleeze Rice packraped by a barracks full of soldiers to her face for fucks sake. You think Reagan saying something midly zealous and bigoted can compare in any way whatsoever to asking the Secretary of State of the world's most powerful nation if she wants a train of foreigners ploughing her?

The shadow
10-22-2007, 09:45 PM
Yes, the US government does not have its people's interests at heart. Yes, they don't care what you care. Yes, the US does not work as a single entity. I know I tend to be idealistic, but I maintain what I said.

I didn't say faith in the system acts as the sole supporter of it. Most governments won't collapse if people don't care what their government does in their name; in fact, some might actually get stronger precisely because of that lack of interest. I said faith is necessary to make the system work as it should. Some systems fail if they don't work as they should in the early stages of their implementation, like communism, but some develop in a way that allows an elite to run the show as they please, like representative democracy.

Now, preservation of the system?. That's not a difficult thing to do: "...mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed.", but to make the system work?. I say faith in the system is a good way to start. I know it sounds foolish because its hard to believe that just because I like to think it might work, then it will. But how are you going to build a real democracy without a major dosis of idealism?.

Faith has a place in government. A balance between pragmatism and idealism can be achieved, and they are both necessary.

I accept I could be wrong, as idealistic people usually are when they have to face real problems in the real life, but that's what I believe in.

skaterpunke
10-23-2007, 11:58 AM
we all need to read between the lies. personaly, i think we need someone like che guvara to free us from this shitty government

wheelchairman
10-23-2007, 12:10 PM
Faith has no inherent place in government. Perhaps a government can earn faith, but I haven't seen one yet that would inspire that in me. And people who put their faith in government freak me out a bit.

skaterpunke, you make me shudder...so much.

JohnnyNemesis
10-25-2007, 11:16 AM
we all need to read between the lies. personaly, i think we need someone like che guvara to free us from this shitty government

Greatest fucking post I've ever read, by far. Holy shit.

XYlophonetreeZ
10-25-2007, 02:54 PM
Oh man. Skaterpunke says the darnedest things!