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Scythe Death
12-09-2007, 10:44 AM
In other words, what's the hardest song cover you can play?

I play guitar.

The hardest song that I can say that I can play right is "Thank You for the Venom" of My Chemical Romance. The opening riff was difficult to figure out.

Other songs I can assure I can play right are "Unholy Confessions" from Avenged Sevenfold and "Lip Gloss and Black" from Atreyu from some others.

There are other songs thta would be harder than Thank You for the Venom, but I can't play right (or mediocrely) or I don't know the song completely. This includes classicals like Summer of the Four Seasons, etc.

SkunkIt
12-09-2007, 11:00 AM
The most difficult cover I ever had to play, was....No song I ever played as difficult, because I always figured it out. I mainly play classical piano. I'm better by ear than I am with sheet music, but I can play sheet music, too.

Scythe Death
12-09-2007, 11:04 AM
The most difficult cover I ever had to play, was....No song I ever played as difficult, because I always figured it out. I mainly play classical piano. I'm better by ear than I am with sheet music, but I can play sheet music, too.

Well, what would be the most advanced song you can play?

SkunkIt
12-09-2007, 11:10 AM
Advanved? I'm not sure what you mean by that, but I've played "Minuet in G" and "Fur Elise" by Beethoven, "'Rondo Alla Turc" by ear, "Canon In D" by Pachelbel, etc. I can't say they were difficult.

The Talking Pie
12-09-2007, 12:17 PM
The opening solo to Metallica's No Remorse. Though that's more a matter of speed than difficulty.

mrconeman
12-09-2007, 05:35 PM
No such thing.
You can't compare difficulty with any real accuracy across a range of genres.

noodlesfan
12-09-2007, 05:39 PM
No such thing.
You can't compare difficulty with any real accuracy across a range of genres.

Sure you can.

coke_a_holic
12-09-2007, 05:40 PM
Uh, if you count the jazz band, then the parts I have to play in Wind Machine, composed by Count Basie, is probably the most difficult, if solely because it's nearly impossible on guitar.

mrconeman
12-09-2007, 06:57 PM
Sure you can.
Not really.

German Andres
12-10-2007, 07:12 AM
The opening solo to Metallica's No Remorse. Though that's more a matter of speed than difficulty.


Excellent song. I think it`s rather difficult (I can`t play it right now, but I think that with a couple of weeks of proper practice I won`t have problems). Its very similar to all the other solos from Kill`em all

DirtyYeso
12-10-2007, 02:07 PM
TKAA, I Choose... on guitars

Llamas
12-13-2007, 10:14 PM
Coneman, of course, is right. I was trying to think of what the hardest song is that I've played... and I thought, well maybe I can define that by how much time I've spent learning a song? But then I was like, a longer song is obviously going to take more time, even if it's not as hard... some songs are easy most of the way through, but have maybe 2 or 3 measures that just fuck me up... also, I'd say that I've played by far the hardest material on saxophone, but have spent much more time learning songs on guitar, because I'm not nearly as good at guitar. So this is pretty much impossible for me to answer.

Little_Miss_1565
12-13-2007, 11:22 PM
I used to be able to do Jeff Buckley's version of "Hallelujah," but that was ages ago and I've forgotten most of it. If I sat down with a guitar, capo, and some tabs I could probably muddle through it again. But that song was pretty impressively difficult if I remember right.

My great regret of my guitar playing days was that I didn't learn enough metal.

mrconeman
12-14-2007, 07:18 AM
Another thing is that...how do you compare difficulty anyway, I mean especially with a song that's like, hard as hell, but you've been playing it for a very long time, so you have it mastered with perfection, and thus you play it fairly easily, to a song that is of moderate difficulty, but you've only just learned it, so it may be a bit of a struggle, you know?

I dunno, I just don't agree with listing things by difficulty, it just seems to bring up that horrible "music is a competition" mindset that I absolutely hate, especially among guitar players.

Anyway, the only song giving me trouble at the minute is Black Rose by Thin Lizzy.
It has a crazy fast mid section, it's really awesome. I kind of play my way through it, but I definitely need to improve on it. The rest of the song I can do.
Here it is, just for kicks, the riff borrows from traditional Irish melodies, it's just a fantastic tune:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=8oB2ccK1ji8
The bit I'm struggling with starts at 4:23.

The Talking Pie
12-14-2007, 10:04 AM
I used to be able to do Jeff Buckley's version of "Hallelujah," but that was ages ago and I've forgotten most of it. If I sat down with a guitar, capo, and some tabs I could probably muddle through it again. But that song was pretty impressively difficult if I remember right.

I love that song. For me, the hardest part to get on guitar was the chorus.

JoY
12-15-2007, 08:14 AM
The most difficult cover I ever had to play, was....No song I ever played as difficult, because I always figured it out. I mainly play classical piano. I'm better by ear than I am with sheet music, but I can play sheet music, too.

pretty much the same for me. I don't have much sheet music to provide me with anything in my genre & that suits me. in gypsy music there's pretty much no sheet music at all, which is sometimes irritating, because you don't get any guidelines & that provides an amount of freedom, that can either make you very good at a certain song, or totally fuck it up. you have absolutely nothing to start with, besides your hearing, that tells you how the song goes. but at the same time I like it a whole lot better than the days I played classical in orchestras, which simply requires a level of accuracy you can't achieve without ever laying an eye on the sheet music.

there's nothing about playing by ear that's by definition "better" than playing from sheet music, though. at least, that's my experience. as in, it doesn't make you a better musician & it doesn't predict how well you play. you can just as well brilliantly learn a song from sheet music & master it so well, you achieve the liberty to use crazy techniques, or more emotional nuances that give it a higher level of difficulty than it originally had & that make it sound much more awesome than if you'd merely play what's on paper.

I like the way playing by ear provides a certain level of liberty; whatever isn't determined for you, you can determine yourself. if you've never seen the sheet music to a song, you automatically play it whichever way works in your head. while when you've already seen the sheet music, you tend to play it the way you remember it was written down. sheet music kind of sets the rules on how to play a song, on where to put crescendos & decrescendos, which fingers to use, et cetera. it's a restriction.

at the same time that liberty can become a pain in the hole, as I said, & playing by ear also paradoxally limits you; if you don't have many sources for a song & you play from auditive memory, you tend to play it the exact way you heard & know it. you usually try to make it sound like the way you remember it in your head. while when you've never heard it before & only have the sheet music to it, you can interpret what the sheet music tells you whichever way you like.

music is restricted. because we wrote it & we are restricted. I love it when musicians find a way to partly undo themselves of that restriction. in my book, that's exactly what makes a great musician.


Advanved? I'm not sure what you mean by that, but I've played "Minuet in G" and "Fur Elise" by Beethoven, "'Rondo Alla Turc" by ear, "Canon In D" by Pachelbel, etc. I can't say they were difficult.

I can't say I find those very difficult, or advanced. but hey, you can have trouble learning something (relatively) simple like Pachelbel's Canon & play something that's (relatively) more complicated like Chopin's Nocturnes like it's a piece of cake. it kind of depends on which area your skills are developed in & what music "grabs" you. it's easier to learn something you're passionate about & eager to learn, than a song that doesn't particularly interest you & that doesn't make much emotion in you surface.


No such thing.
You can't compare difficulty with any real accuracy across a range of genres.


Sure you can.

no, you can't. it depends on the genre, which skills you're well developed in & which you are less developed in, what you're passionate about & are eager to learn, if you're technical player, or put lots of emotion in your playing, & if you define "difficulty" by techniques, or playing it passionately.

playing passionately can be as difficult as techniques, if not more in certain cases. you can put a lot of work in learning a song that's technically difficult, but you can put as much work, if not more, in making a relatively simple song sound like it's yours, like it exposes a piece of yourself, your most inner, personal self.

JoY
12-15-2007, 08:36 AM
I love that song. For me, the hardest part to get on guitar was the chorus.

songs you love are always the hardest to play, no matter the level of difficulty. because you want to get them *exactly* right. for the song, like you owe it to the song & to the artist/composer. I imagine you're a little like me in this aspect, that you would feel free to say you're fine at something you play ok, when you have no intention to play it any better, because you don't feel the obligation to do the song great justice - & that you would feel guilty about saying you're good at something you actually *are* good at, when you feel the song is so great & awesome, you just never feel like you do it justice.

I just said it's easier to learn a song you're passionate about, because it makes you eager to learn. objectively, factually, I do think that's true. like, it stimulates & motivates you more, so you probably will learn to play it decently within less time & in a bit more time become better at it than you normally are at songs you don't love as much. but I think subjectively it most often is the other way around, because it makes you demand more of yourself. maybe even more than you can, which can become very frustrating.

mrconeman
12-15-2007, 08:40 AM
no, you can't. it depends on the genre, which skills you're well developed in & which you are less developed in, what you're passionate about & are eager to learn, if you're technical player, or put lots of emotion in your playing, & if you define "difficulty" by techniques, or playing it passionately.

playing passionately can be as difficult as techniques, if not more in certain cases. you can put a lot of work in learning a song that's technically difficult, but you can put as much work, if not more, in making a relatively simple song sound like it's yours, like it exposes a piece of yourself, your most inner, personal self.

Thanks2u for eliminating any need for me to elaborate on what I meant. You got to exactly what I was getting at.

JoY
12-15-2007, 09:38 AM
hey, no problem.:)



I dunno, I just don't agree with listing things by difficulty, it just seems to bring up that horrible "music is a competition" mindset that I absolutely hate, especially among guitar players.


it's among players of every instrument. it's why I never went to the conservatory, because I knew I would have to perform according to definitions of "good" that aren't my own & that I would have to compete. it's musical death, for serious. I need to have the freedom to do things my own way in the area of music, or I can't be passionate. & if I'm not passionate, I can't be good. I personally enjoy playing music, irrespective of how other people play & how good they are. all that other people can show me is how it also can be played & how I can get better. I strive for becoming better than I am, not for becoming better than they are, because they have no role in my ways of expressing myself & my reasons for playing the violin.

I know that with my mentality I can't become a pro, because in musical business you're required to be better than others, "better" according to their definitions. that's the entire job description. but it's not my intention to earn my living with music. I've always loved to do it & I don't want to kill my own passion competing with others. that's not the way I look at my studies, at medicine for instance either, let alone the way I feel towards music. I couldn't be good at either one, if I did.

killer_queen
12-15-2007, 11:38 AM
there's nothing about playing by ear that's by definition "better" than playing from sheet music, though. at least, that's my experience. as in, it doesn't make you a better musician & it doesn't predict how well you play. you can just as well brilliantly learn a song from sheet music & master it so well, you achieve the liberty to use crazy techniques, or more emotional nuances that give it a higher level of difficulty than it originally had & that make it sound much more awesome than if you'd merely play what's on paper.
Thank God, someone is aware of this. I never play by ear and somehow people think it's because I'm not talented (this will sound like bragging but, I really am talented). I'm just used to play songs from sheet music. Anyone can play by ear after a short training, it's just a matter of choice. But noooo, all of my friends, relatives brag about how they are good at playing by ear.

Anyways, any song can be easy if you have talent and if you practice enough. The important thing is feeling the song, I think. I always say that you can't be good at music if you are not an emotional person. If you don't give a fuck about nuances and stuff like that(don't know what they are called in English) you cannot truly say that you are good at it. Shortly, I'm all with Bella and coneman.

SkunkIt, how long have you been playing piano? Because I never thought Turkish March was easy. My teacher made me play that song at least 500 times although ı did not make even one mistake while playing it. Are you sure that you don't play a simple version of it?

German Andres
12-15-2007, 05:08 PM
hey, no problem.:)



it's among players of every instrument. it's why I never went to the conservatory, because I knew I would have to perform according to definitions of "good" that aren't my own & that I would have to compete. it's musical death, for serious. I need to have the freedom to do things my own way in the area of music, or I can't be passionate. & if I'm not passionate, I can't be good. I personally enjoy playing music, irrespective of how other people play & how good they are. all that other people can show me is how it also can be played & how I can get better. I strive for becoming better than I am, not for becoming better than they are, because they have no role in my ways of expressing myself & my reasons for playing the violin.



Amen for that, that was awesome

JoY
12-16-2007, 07:08 AM
Thank God, someone is aware of this. I never play by ear and somehow people think it's because I'm not talented (this will sound like bragging but, I really am talented). I'm just used to play songs from sheet music. Anyone can play by ear after a short training, it's just a matter of choice. But noooo, all of my friends, relatives brag about how they are good at playing by ear.


well, it's not a matter of choice & not everyone can play by ear with a little bit of training, or you'd be able to do it. but not everyone can play well from sheet music, or I'd be able to do it. it's just what you find the easiest & most comfortable, like an instinct, like I automatically pick up a pen with my left hand & can't write with my right hand. it's pretty much where your personal talent lies.

my auditive memory kicks ass, while my ability to read from sheet music.. doesn't. it's also like this in school & university; I learn from hearing, I'm terrible at learning from books. always have been. I can't explain how it works, which is why I sucked at teaching the violin. I expected my students to repeat after me. I would play a short melody & I thought they could then do the same. or that they could hear exactly when they were off, without me telling them, or if I played it correctly after them. but, though it works that way for me, it doesn't work like that for everybody.

I can learn music from sheet music, though. but then I play it from sheet music first & remember what it sounds like to play it from auditive memory the next time. or I already know what it sounds like & use sheet music as my guideline for playing it correctly.

I love that playing by ear is my skill & it has significantly enlarged my repertoire, because I'm able to play what I hear & play what I have on sheet music. technically I'm not such a fantastic violinist, though. I haven't had lessons in over 10 years. friends of mine, who studied hard for it, who don't have the ability to play by ear, but developed their techniques from sheet music, play much much better than I ever will. they are talented, in different ways than I am. maybe they can't repeat a melody after hearing it once or twice, but they are fantastic at what they do & by far musically superior to me.


Amen for that, that was awesome

thanks buddy.

shatskater
01-15-2008, 04:43 AM
In other words, what's the hardest song cover you can play?

I play guitar.

The hardest song that I can say that I can play right is "Thank You for the Venom" of My Chemical Romance. The opening riff was difficult to figure out.

Other songs I can assure I can play right are "Unholy Confessions" from Avenged Sevenfold and "Lip Gloss and Black" from Atreyu from some others.

There are other songs thta would be harder than Thank You for the Venom, but I can't play right (or mediocrely) or I don't know the song completely. This includes classicals like Summer of the Four Seasons, etc.

yeah I play unholy confessions and lipgloss and black. I agree, they are relatively challenging songs. the first breakdown in lipgloss messes me up. ugh. and the my chem song. i wanted to learn it. but i digress.