PDA

View Full Version : Venezuela



Mota Boy
03-03-2008, 07:18 PM
So, anyone following what's going on in northern South America? A few days ago, the Columbian army attacked a FARC position about a mile inside the Ecuador border (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7274038.stm). Apparently, both Ecuador and Venezuela went apeshit, with Chavez vowing to send ten dividsions to the Columbian border and speak of war.

Now to me, that's all sorts of what the fuck right there. Yes, border violations are serious business, but threatening war against a country for attacking inernal rebels? And now we get this (http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601086&sid=aMPbNS8tsmVo&refer=latin_america). Which makes life that much more interesting.

Iran:Hezbollah::Venezuela:FARC

At this point, it's hard to know what to trust. Personally, the fact that FARC "is looking to buy 50 kilos of uranium and get involved in international terrorism" is almost suspiciously terrifying/playing right into US hands. And the very concept is laughable - making a nuclear weapon is simply not something that a rebel group can accomplish. It's like that scheemer friend of yours from middle school who swears he can get a fake I.D. Still, it's not a charge that can be ignored, especially with Chavez's suspiciously over-the-top sabre-rattling on this incident, and his persistent paranoia regarding Washington. (Would the US be happy if he were gone? Yes. Would it rely on internal subterfuge to overthrow him? Quite possibly. Would it invade? Hell no.) Oh, and the Columbians also claim to find documents linking Ecuador's president to FARC. So South American politics are about to get a bit more interesting.

wheelchairman
03-04-2008, 02:09 PM
Suspicious over the top sabre rattling?

I wouldn't call it that. It's what Chavez always does. And there are clear ideological reasons for it as well. The leader of the Bolivarian Revolution couldn't be seen to helplessly watch his Colombian compañeros be attacked like that.

Also 10 divisions is something like 5,500 Venezuelan troops on the border. Of course some anger on Chavez's part is justified. He's been trying to arrange negotiations. He got hostages held by FARC released as a sign of good faith to Uribe. Then Uribe went and did this. (Which was the logical thing to do for Uribe, negotiations can still go back the same way at some point in the future, so no real opportunity was lost.)

The idea is that FARC would use the uranium to make a Dirty Bomb (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dirty_bomb) out of it. This seems unlikely that FARC would try this. If FARC had uranium it would be for the negotiating table. However the idea of FARC prioritizing uranium seems a bit absurd.

punker
03-05-2008, 07:30 PM
colombia's army didnt just attacked a FARC position, they killed the second person in command of the FARC, is the hardest hit the army ever had on them


Also 10 divisions is something like 5,500 Venezuelan troops on the border. Of course some anger on Chavez's part is justified. He's been trying to arrange negotiations. He got hostages held by FARC released as a sign of good faith to Uribe. Then Uribe went and did this. (Which was the logical thing to do for Uribe, negotiations can still go back the same way at some point in the future, so no real opportunity was lost.)

is more like 9000 soldiers, plus tanks and aircrafts.
the negotiations were just a whole novel chavez made up to try and get FARC out of the terrorist list, those hostages releases weren´t just good human will showed by them.

about those documents, they seem pretty cheap evidence to me, they were recovered from a perfect computer in a campament that was bombed, and dont have any signatures or anything to rely on, like to say those are real, if you want to read them (and know some spanish) they're here (http://www.eltiempo.com/conflicto/noticias/ARCHIVO/ARCHIVO-3985321-0.pdf)

as much as I hate uribe, I support him on this one, there's no reason (legal) why correa should have allowed to keep that campament on their border and i´m glad that fucker got killed.

HornyPope
03-06-2008, 10:52 PM
Under a thousand men per devision? That's pretty pathetic. I hope it's only because it's not combat-ready devisions.

The shadow
03-07-2008, 08:59 PM
Under a thousand men per devision? That's pretty pathetic. I hope it's only because it's not combat-ready devisions.

Actually, it's ten batallions, not divisions. They're combat-ready, air-supported, artillery-supported, armored and some are special forces.

I think the strongest (and most ignored) ideological force in Latin America is nacionalism. The presence of foreign troops, no matter the size and objectives, is seen almost unanimously as unacceptable. This caused such a deproportionate reaction by Correa, not that he has any means to back his words anyway. Chávez is just dumb. I think Uribe handled it the best, and I support all operations of this type launched against the FARC.

Half the things Chávez does are politically motivated (like the hostages' negotiations), the other half are just crazy and stupid impulsive actions by a power-hungry third world populist tyrant (like the troop deployment).

Anyway, the crisis is over. An almost funny show of hipocrisy at the Group of Río summit ended it. War was a long shot from the beginnig anyway.

Also, as a personal thought, what a ridiculous man Ortega is.

HornyPope
03-08-2008, 07:19 AM
Actually, it's ten batallions, not divisions. They're combat-ready, air-supported, artillery-supported, armored and some are special forces.

Is this armour and artillery operated by the ten batallions in question, or by support units that aren't included in the count?

punker
03-08-2008, 07:38 PM
Anyway, the crisis is over. An almost funny show of hipocrisy at the Group of Río summit ended it.
My thoughts exactly when I saw uribe shaking chavez and ortega's hands, not so much with Correa, because he had the I-still-hate-you face when uribe came to him, and he also said that the conflict was over, but he still thinks colombia made a huge mistake.