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View Full Version : Anti-Flag fan's thoughts on signing to RCA records



OffspringHead
05-11-2008, 05:28 PM
MANY Anti-Flag fans claim that they have "Sold Out" This is why...

Anti-Flag signed to RCA Records. Those who don't know RCA, they include the Foo Fighters, Avril Lavigne, Christina Aguilera, Clay Aiken, Velvet Revolver etc.

Anti-Flag fans should know that back in the day A-F was against major record labels and big business and wrote numerous songs about it such as N.B.C (No Bloodthirsty Corporations).

If you listen to Anti-Flag from the 90's, they we're what most would call "real punk". They're very political band who "stood up for what they believed in"

If I had to say, Anti-Flag had fans that would fight in the name of A-F till the death. People looked at A-F as political idols more than just a band (This was very notable on thepeopleunited.com, Anti-Flag's forum). Anti-Flag also used to frequently post on TPU and keep in touch with their fans. They no longer do so.

If you listen to A-F's 2 newest albums (i actually enjoyed one of them), they're more on the poppy side and barely considered Punk.

Anti-Flag says they signed to RCA to broaden their influence on a bigger group of people. The bassist admitted it was for the cash as well.

For a band who is against big business and capitalism, it's kind of ironic they signed to such a large record label. What are your thoughts?

0r4ng3
05-11-2008, 06:11 PM
This is so 2005. Do their fans still even care that they've gone major?

OffspringHead
05-11-2008, 06:19 PM
This is so 2005. Do their fans still even care that they've gone major?

Lmfao yeah it is kind of old but whats the harm in bringing up another discussion?

And a lot of their fans did kind of give up on them. I still love A-F but not their newest album. I have mixed feelings on their signing to a major label.

nieh
05-11-2008, 06:20 PM
Just because someone doesn't agree with capitalism, that doesn't change the fact that they live under it and need money to get by.

0r4ng3
05-11-2008, 06:24 PM
I agree that their newest album was shit, but I don't think it was entirely because they signed to a major label.

OffspringHead
05-11-2008, 06:26 PM
I agree that their newest album was shit, but I don't think it was entirely because they signed to a major label.
Then why was it?

OffspringHead
05-11-2008, 06:27 PM
Just because a someone is doesn't agree with capitalism, that doesn't change the fact that they live under it and need money to get by.
Oh. They were "getting by" just fine. Though a Wal-Mart employee gets paid shit, they can jussssssssst get by. And they were making a hell of a lot more than a Wal-Mart employee.

Endymion
05-11-2008, 06:28 PM
Then why was it?

because punk is dead.

Autonomist
05-11-2008, 06:30 PM
What are your thoughts?

Anti-Flag are fucking shit. Who cares what label they're on?

OffspringHead
05-11-2008, 06:31 PM
because punk is dead.
Lmfao. Good point.

jacknife737
05-11-2008, 07:01 PM
1) Anti-Flag are just as "poppy" now, then when they were on an indie label, and they are still just as political.

2) Their newest album is the best thing they've ever released.

3) I'm not even going to point out the irony of discussing "selling out" on an Offspring board.

Little_Miss_1565
05-11-2008, 07:16 PM
Oh. They were "getting by" just fine. Though a Wal-Mart employee gets paid shit, they can jussssssssst get by. And they were making a hell of a lot more than a Wal-Mart employee.

God forbid a band not want to be stuck "just getting by" for their entire lives and, you know, live comfortably instead. But I'm sorry, bands should *want* to martyr themselves for your narrow definition of punk.

WebDudette
05-11-2008, 08:08 PM
I had a discussion with my friends about selling out a couple months ago.

It ended with me saying that I would sell my soul in a second and make any music a major label requested. If I really wanted I would just make a side project or something. Apparently my friends would never change their sound for money.

OffspringHead
05-11-2008, 08:35 PM
God forbid a band not want to be stuck "just getting by" for their entire lives and, you know, live comfortably instead. But I'm sorry, bands should *want* to martyr themselves for your narrow definition of punk.
Lmfao. You're a funny guy. You're getting SO defensive (probably because you're still fired up about our Green Day argument) when I admitted to still liking them (and one of their poppy albums) and have them as my Avatar. =OOOO Shocker.

These aren't my opinions. These are apparently "fact" in regards to a lot of Anti-Flag fans. Anti-Flag were considered "Real Punk". Bands like The Offspring, Bad Religion, Strike Anywhere, Pennywise etc. are considered a branch of punk or considered to be pop-punk. Or "Poser Punk" as some hardcore "real" punk fans may say. In my opinion, All of these bands are "Punk", just a different form of it. Hell, Green Day was a form of punk and barely hanging onto that title in the view of some. I don't write these "rules". I'm just reporting them from a different stand point.

They were against corporations and big business and they signed to a major label. That's 100% fact. I could really care less how they want to live or what label they're signed to. I just won't listen to their new shit and stick to Mobilize and Die for your Government.

I'm not as much as a "close minded dick" as you're making me seem =)

OffspringHead
05-11-2008, 08:36 PM
I had a discussion with my friends about selling out a couple months ago.

It ended with me saying that I would sell my soul in a second and make any music a major label requested. If I really wanted I would just make a side project or something. Apparently they would never change their sound or money.
But Anti-Flag did change their sound. A lot.

0r4ng3
05-11-2008, 08:37 PM
I always figured that labeling something as punk or not was, in fact, the least punk thing of all. The entire genre's a contradiction, really.

I just wanted to put that out there, even if it's mostly irrelevant. Carry on.

OffspringHead
05-11-2008, 08:38 PM
1) Anti-Flag are just as "poppy" now, then when they were on an indie label, and they are still just as political.

2) Their newest album is the best thing they've ever released.

I have to say that's the first time I've ever heard that before. Haha.

ruroken
05-11-2008, 08:40 PM
Wait... people like Anti-Flag?

OffspringHead
05-11-2008, 08:43 PM
I always figured that labeling something as punk or not was, in fact, the least punk thing of all. The entire genre's a contradiction, really.

I just wanted to put that out there, even if it's mostly irrelevant. Carry on.
Not irrelevant at all. The whole point is that Anti-Flag were apparently so "Punk and Rebellious" that they contradicted themselves and signed to a major label.

But you are absolutely, positively, 100% correct. Punk is nothing but a contradiction. The "real" idea of "punk" is sounding like shit, wearing studs, and living in a box with the whole bullshit "Punk is a lifestyle not a genre." If that were so true, then why is the offspring and bad religion considered "punk" I'm pretty sure they just wear jeans and a t-shirt and go on stage.

These crazy fanatic punk kids are too into their image and having their favorite band that's addicted to heroin "sell out" that they will never shut the fuck up.

And then there's the every day "punk kid" that maybe wears an Offspring wristband, bad religion t-shirt and jeans and gets through everyday life without a problem. And they aren't as crazy about their band selling out.

And then there's the people in the middle of the extreme punk kid and everyday punk kid.

Image and selling out is such a bullshit thing it makes me sick to my stomach.

OffspringHead
05-11-2008, 08:44 PM
Wait... people like Anti-Flag?
LMFAOOOO!!

Autonomist
05-11-2008, 08:46 PM
Wait... people like Anti-Flag?

Fuck no...

SaiKYoU
05-12-2008, 03:45 AM
who cares?! i don't like what i've heard of the new album...

and this reminds me of one of the quotes from the beggining of the DVD of Americana...

"with great sales [of records] come great music labels"

it's just a natural process...

Bazza
05-12-2008, 03:58 AM
Whenever I listen to music the last thing I do is look at what label the artist is on. Why should that influence my opinion on whether it's good music or not. If it sounds great I listen to more, if sounds shit then I stop.

Don't judge a book by its cover etc...

HeadAroundU
05-12-2008, 05:31 AM
They grew up and their fans should as well. :)

The Terror State is my favourite album.

Little_Miss_1565
05-12-2008, 08:54 AM
Lmfao. You're a funny guy. You're getting SO defensive (probably because you're still fired up about our Green Day argument) when I admitted to still liking them (and one of their poppy albums) and have them as my Avatar. =OOOO Shocker.

I'm a lady, mister, and don't you have a funny opinion of yourself to think that I care about an argument that I left because it was too stupid to let live. Also, I don't know what you're talking about with your avatar because it's Anal Cunt, not Green Day. OMFG trupunx!


These aren't my opinions. These are apparently "fact" in regards to a lot of Anti-Flag fans. ...I don't write these "rules". I'm just reporting them from a different stand point.

Sorry...still opinions.


I'm not as much as a "close minded dick" as you're making me seem =)

Except for the part where you are, especially when it comes to putting words in my mouth.

JohnnyNemesis
05-12-2008, 09:04 AM
*sigh*

There's nothing wrong with signing on to a major label and judging a band solely on that is ridiculous. Or, rather, if there is anything wrong with signing on to a major label the decision is still kinda no one's business but their own.

Being disappointed in a notable difference in the actual music based on their switch to a major? I can understand that, and I'd be angry too (oh why hello there Sing the Sorrow!). But trying to make judgments about these people based on the decision is ridiculous. They can do whatever they want, and maybe they should just get their dough and live comfortably. Either way, they certainly shouldn't base their decisions on narrow definitions of what punk actually is.

I will say that if they rant against big business and capitalism while signed to RCA records, that's not something "ironic" as you suggest. It's downright hypocrisy and no one should be sugarcoating it. And that has nothing to do with whether something is "punk" enough for one person or another, but has everything to do with not being a fucking idiot.

The main thing I'm saying is that no one should be stressing this decision, that's all.

bouncingcoles
05-12-2008, 10:11 AM
when i first heard they joined a major label i was kinda pissed because its totally going against what they sing about. But at the same time it makes sense cause they can reach more people and make some more money which i cant falt them for. Perhaps i would do the same thing. For blood and empire or whatever is decent and i was surprised when i heard it cause it just sounded like a regular anti flag cd instead of some way overproduced shit album like what AFI did. But bright lights of America is a really poor album and i have barely heard any good reviews about it. Anti flag were the best when the terror state came out. Thats when i do recall their live shows being the best too.

bouncingcoles
05-12-2008, 10:13 AM
And even though people give anti flag shit for being on a major label no one mentions that rage against the machine are on a major label too and have been since 1992. And that goes against what they sing about too.

JohnnyNemesis
05-12-2008, 10:32 AM
Yeah, except no. Everyone always talks about RATM being on a major and pretty much no one respects them.

H1T_That
05-12-2008, 11:53 AM
Why do people still give a fuck about any of this?

Good music is good music, regardless of how much the band makes, what they used to stand for, which label they are on, or what some teenage rebel thinks his favourite band should do.

"punk"....What the fuck are you people, 12? Grow the fuck up.

OffspringHead
05-12-2008, 12:08 PM
I'm a lady

My bad.


Also, I don't know what you're talking about with your avatar because it's Anal Cunt, not Green Day. OMFG trupunx!

It was Anti-Flag and i changed it last night.

These are just open debates about music. I'm not gonna cuss and freak out with you anymore cause idk you and i never will =)
I can see why you got mad at Green day (sorta) but not this argument

JohnnyNemesis
05-12-2008, 12:10 PM
Why do people still give a fuck about any of this?

Good music is good music, regardless of how much the band makes, what they used to stand for, which label they are on, or what some teenage rebel thinks his favourite band should do.

"punk"....What the fuck are you people, 12? Grow the fuck up.

I pretty much agree, but I still think that if you come out with a song called "No Bloodthirsty Corporations" and then sign on to a major label, you're gonna have to deal with the backlash and probably even deserve it.

Still, they do also deserve a space where their opinions can change and grow over the years without having to deal with this kinda crap.

H1T_That
05-12-2008, 12:23 PM
but I still think that if you come out with a song called "No Bloodthirsty Corporations" and then sign on to a major label, you're gonna have to deal with the backlash and probably even deserve it.



Yeah, but as someone (possibly you??) touched on earlier, thats more about being hypocritical than "omg selloutz!"

nieh
05-12-2008, 12:30 PM
I pretty much agree, but I still think that if you come out with a song called "No Bloodthirsty Corporations" and then sign on to a major label, you're gonna have to deal with the backlash and probably even deserve it.

They seriously have a song with that title? I can see why that would bother people for their hypocrisy, but as I said before, I have no problem with people generally being against capitalism but realizing that they still live under it. They have every right to take advantage of the system to make their lives more comfortable, even if they dislike the system itself.

Sunny
05-12-2008, 12:33 PM
oh noes faux punx selloutz!

i basically agree with what's been said before by Sarah and Ricky. as long as they sound good, who gives a shit? and if they don't sound good, then criticize the sound, not the band's decision to sign to a big label. as Sarah pointed out... i believe fans need to pull their heads out of their asses and realize bands are *people*, not some kind of pUnX mArtYrS for the elusive "cause". they might be against the corporate structure and the concept of capitalism, but they live in a capitalist society and have their own interests to watch out for. if you expected them to turn down the money so that a few underage punx can keep idolizing them and their commitment to the "cause", then lol at you.

in other words, just like the tag i added... cry moar.

Vera
05-12-2008, 01:00 PM
I saw a documentary on punk where somebody basically stated, punk can never be forever because to prolong is to kill its idea. Punk's about getting out there, playing music, not caring if you don't know how to play very well yet, just getting your voice heard for the love of music. Independent punk movement doesn't just come from anti-commercialism, it's a part of that whole grassroots thing where you release stuff on your own because you don't stand a chance with the industry itself.

Real creativity and inspiring thoughts, politically, socially, can come out of that sort of punk movement.

But it can't be forever. You're bound to get better, sound better, and your thoughts and world view will develop, as well. You're going to get older, start a family, and suddenly it's not financially possible to focus so much on playing punkrock. You'd be struggling to survive if you did that.

On the other hand, I tip my hat to the bands who don't want to risk their integrity by signing onto a bigger label and keep doing their thing on the independent side. It can't be easy but it's their choice to make, and if they want to keep it up, more power to them.

You could also argue that you can only really fight the system from the inside. But honestly, I don't really care. If they turn out a bunch of hypocrits, so be it. As long as the music is good, I don't think the fans oughta complain.

But punk fans haven proven themselves some of the most narrow-minded people ever. Sometimes you gotta "look punk", other times you shouldn't make any money at all, hell, fans label other fans sell-out fans dare somebody admit they listen to a band who *are* making money.

(I should point out, saying punk isn't forever isn't really true; punk isn't forever for somebody in particular, but it seems like punk continues to inspire new fans, new people, and they continue coming out with new stuff. Some of that new stuff may be repeating the old stuff, but the point of punk, I guess, is just to get those kids making music their own way. Some of them will make it, some won't, but as long as they enjoy it, it doesn't really matter.)

coke_a_holic
05-12-2008, 01:23 PM
Anti-Flag is hilarious. I've seen them live twice by accident and their politics are really, really boring. They're a band, their job is to make money, the whole "fuck the man!" thing is really profitable, so the man will sell messages against itself to make that money, and Anti-Flag is just clueless enough to agree to do it while being smart enough to make a great deal of money off it.

I'm still confused that people actually like them, though.

Jesus
05-12-2008, 01:33 PM
I will say that if they rant against big business and capitalism while signed to RCA records, that's not something "ironic" as you suggest. It's downright hypocrisy and no one should be sugarcoating it. And that has nothing to do with whether something is "punk" enough for one person or another, but has everything to do with not being a fucking idiot.

Bah, disagreed. Heard this type of argument too many times from global warming deniers. Other context , argument is the same.


They seriously have a song with that title? I can see why that would bother people for their hypocrisy, but as I said before, I have no problem with people generally being against capitalism but realizing that they still live under it. They have every right to take advantage of the system to make their lives more comfortable, even if they dislike the system itself.
Indeed. And it helps to get the message out. RATM or SOAD are probably the biggest examples of that.

jacknife737
05-12-2008, 01:35 PM
I'm still confused that people actually like them, though.

I don't really listen to them due to politics, i just think they're a really, really catchy pop-punk band

JohnnyNemesis
05-12-2008, 01:38 PM
Bah, disagreed. Heard this type of argument too many times from global warming deniers. Other context , argument is the same.

What ?!

Jesus
05-12-2008, 01:50 PM
What ?!

Most obvious one: Al Gore is a hypocrite cause he goes around flying on his plane, driving around with all his security people, eating meat (yeah PETA did this) all at the same time preaching to fight against global warming. What a hypocrite.

Simply because you are politically against something, doesn't mean that you can/should act the way you preach when you are trying to reach your goal in current society. That's more paradoxal than hypocritical imo.
Bah, just that practice what you preach argument annoys the crap out of me. It all depends on the cirumstances, context , cause, goals etc.

H1T_That
05-12-2008, 01:53 PM
Most obvious one: Al Gore is a hypocrite cause he goes around flying on his plane, driving around with all his security people, eating meat (yeah PETA did this) all at the same time preaching to fight against global warming. What a hypocrite.



Thats the worst argument ever....


are you seriously fronting this towards your point....??

JohnnyNemesis
05-12-2008, 01:56 PM
Oh. Wow. Pretty much just...wow. I'm not touching that one with a ten foot pole.

Sunny
05-12-2008, 01:58 PM
wow, this thread just achieved a whole new level of OMFG WTF BBQ.

good job guys!

Jesus
05-12-2008, 02:25 PM
Thats the worst argument ever....

I agree. Just like most practice what you preach arguments are.

H1T_That
05-12-2008, 02:27 PM
I agree. Just like most practice what you preach arguments are.

I think you've misunderstood...

Jesus
05-12-2008, 02:29 PM
I think you've misunderstood...

What do you mean?

I don't consider Al Gore a hypocrite if you thought that, just like I don't consider Anti Flag hypocrites.

H1T_That
05-12-2008, 02:32 PM
*notices you edited your post*

hmmm.

Jesus
05-12-2008, 02:36 PM
*notices you edited your post*

hmmm.

Yes I added "/should".

Edit/ I really fail to see the issue: JohnnyNemesis said anti flag were hypocrites for singing against corporations and capitalism while being signed to RCA. This is a typical 'you should practice what you preace' agument. I disagree with such arguments, cause they are a bit nutty in most contexts (end justifying means, cause I guess anti-flag want political change, if this gets'm more attention all the power to them). Just like when global warming deniers use them against Al Gore. Sorry for focussing on global warming, I'm just writing a paper on the attacks on Gore; so that's all that's in my head now.

Little_Miss_1565
05-12-2008, 02:47 PM
I can see why you got mad at Green day (sorta) but not this argument

It always pisses me off when people shit on younger fans because I was one and I don't think anyone would accuse me of being a fairweather fan today, and I won't apologize for defending a 12 year old's right to be here and at shows.

I'm not pissed at you in this argument, I'm just dumbfounded that someone who isn't 13 would take "punk rock" so seriously in the year 2008, let alone be so singlemindedly dedicated to ignoring facts presented in counterargument.

OffspringHead
05-12-2008, 04:06 PM
It always pisses me off when people shit on younger fans because I was one and I don't think anyone would accuse me of being a fairweather fan today, and I won't apologize for defending a 12 year old's right to be here and at shows.

I'm not pissed at you in this argument, I'm just dumbfounded that someone who isn't 13 would take "punk rock" so seriously in the year 2008, let alone be so singlemindedly dedicated to ignoring facts presented in counterargument.
Well, You were right about a few things in our Green Day argument but about 90% of the things you presented I had a back up to. Read my last post to ilovelamas. I feel i was a bit more clear in that post than i was with you and nieh. But if you wanna just forget about it and stop arguing then it's whatever.

And I do fight to the death. But I do admit when im wrong :D