PDA

View Full Version : Diverse/Cohesive



HeadAroundU
07-16-2008, 08:09 AM
How do you like The Offspring's direction of doing the albums with diverse songs? I mean Splinter and RFRG. In my opinion, RFRG is even more diverse. So it escalated.

I appreciate diversity as long as album flows well. RFRG has songs that are completely from different worlds. And I'm not talking only about ballads. Other songs sound different as well. Splinter is ok, I guess, but it has some really bizzare songs. It's short so it probably just appears to be compact.

They should inspire themselves with AFI's Sing the Sorrow or Incubus' A Crow Left of the Murder. Those are long and cohesive albums but there's still a lot of things going on. I'm not saying that Dexter should sing like a fag. But he should learn how make songs with the same "mother".

Rooster
07-16-2008, 09:01 AM
I think their new album is their most diverse yet, but it still has THEIR sound (well, maybe song Rise and Fall is the exception, but i still like it). And that's how it should be.

Stylie
07-16-2008, 09:02 AM
I think their new album is their most diverse yet, but it still has THEIR sound (well, maybe song Rise and Fall is the exception, but i still like it). And that's how it should be.

Yep. RAFRAG is their most diverse album, and I think that's great.

dff_punk
07-16-2008, 09:21 AM
Yep. RAFRAG is their most diverse album, and I think that's great.

On the contrary, which album of theirs is the most cohesive.. that is the question. And I cant really tell which one... Americana in mind, but not sure.

Stylie
07-16-2008, 09:53 AM
On the contrary, which album of theirs is the most cohesive.. that is the question. And I cant really tell which one... Americana in mind, but not sure.

That's hard to say. I don't know, really...

Out on Patrol
07-16-2008, 11:38 AM
On the contrary, which album of theirs is the most cohesive.. that is the question. And I cant really tell which one... Americana in mind, but not sure.

The Offspring (aka Self Titled)

It's their more diverse album.
It's different, it isn't neither bad nor good.

But I still think i prefer something more cohesive, but, on the other hand, it's good the "variety" of sound.

disclaimer_07
07-16-2008, 11:45 AM
(well, maybe song Rise and Fall is the exception, but i still like it).

Because it has a close resemblance to American Idiot?

disclaimer_07
07-16-2008, 11:51 AM
On the contrary, which album of theirs is the most cohesive.. that is the question. And I cant really tell which one... Americana in mind, but not sure.

Self Titled.

IamSam
07-16-2008, 12:24 PM
Self Titled.

Smash. Imo.

To answer the question, both. Which they have done very well with RAFRAG. I enjoy their branching out, however I would like to see more cohesion ala Ixnay/Co1. I don't care what anyone says, Co1 is a very cohesive album.

Rooster
07-16-2008, 12:48 PM
Because it has a close resemblance to American Idiot?

It just gives me some kind of a different vibe. I like the song the more i listen to it, though :D

Yes, it has similar rhytm like American Idiot, but at least riffs are different, while GD almost copied their song from Dillinger Four (almost the same riffs and very similar structure). But let's not make another Offspring/Green Day comparison here, there's already a whole thread about it on the boards.

But on the other hand, i just don't know why, Rise and Fall reminds me on the hidden track on Greatest Hits CD (Next To You). Does anyone else have the same feeling?

IamSam
07-16-2008, 01:04 PM
But on the other hand, i just don't know why, Rise and Fall reminds me on the hidden track on Greatest Hits CD (Next To You). Does anyone else have the same feeling?

The drum work maybe?

Rooster
07-16-2008, 01:13 PM
The drum work maybe?

Maybe... it might have something to do with the way guitars sound (not the melody, the sound), too... But it's deffinitely not the rhytm, it's different...

Free?
07-16-2008, 01:50 PM
The interesting thing is that RAFRAG while being most diverse album has a strong concept of "Rise and Fall, Rage and Grace".

chriiis
07-16-2008, 02:11 PM
The interesting thing is that RAFRAG while being most diverse album has a strong concept of "Rise and Fall, Rage and Grace".

True!

I think that only one cohesive album is the Selftitled, Ignition only a bit and Smash too.

F@ BANKZ
07-16-2008, 05:29 PM
I think after Rise and Fall, one more diverse album would probably work nicely, provided it is done correctly as there is nothing worse than a varied album that is terrible, but I cannot see that from The Offspring.

I believe that the band now being in a diverse period, but I don't think it will last forever, I think that one day they will go back to basics with an solid Ignition/Smash sounding album. Which genre I prefer generally is hard to say. The cohesive sound of Smash is my preference over the diverse sound of Ixnay, although particularly now that the band has entered so much new territory for them to take a step back at this stage would probably ruin the charm of the next album.

I have to say I like the balance a lot. Too much variety is silly: Ixnay gets a little silly (although is good enough to get away with it). Another thing about it is that it does have three or four very dark songs so it has cohesive elements. Too much cohesivity on the other hand could obviously get repetitive.

So in short: I think and hope the next album will be diverse but (dare I say it) if there are any beyond that they should consider sticking mostly to one sound.

Ps. The way I see it is that:
Diverse= Ixnay, Americana, Splinter, Rise and Fall
Cohesive= S/T, Ignition, Smash, Conspiracy of One
For new Offspring it is difficult to say though (minus Rise and Fall).

IamSam
07-16-2008, 05:31 PM
I'll be honest. I look for them to do their one last record on Columbia and then move to a smaller label where they will do maybe one more album that is a little blast from the past. Maybe not.

One thing is for sure though: They better release a B-side album.

F@ BANKZ
07-16-2008, 05:49 PM
Sorry to digress but I must say that I hope with all my strength that The Offspring make albums and keep going for at least another 10 years; they have managed to get four out in that time before, although I think it is more important that they take their time. Whereas I probably would not wish to see the band wither, fifty/fifty-five is not old for a man. Rise and Fall by itself shows age does not have such a potent effect so suddenly, in fact, look at Fix You, it can be a virtue.

The problem they have is that it might have difficulty shaking this 'Pretty Fly white guy' image people unfairly have of them, maybe Rise and Fall was the beginning of this. Certainly a heavier, slightly more cohesive album this time around would help the old cloud of time wash awa... Never mind.

Ps Mk.II: As for moving to a smaller label, I think that would be a good idea. The band has enough loyal fans to make money whatever they do and I think this would be benificial to the music, especially (not wishing to sound monotonous) if they are going to go for a cohesive sound. Is it possible that Dexter could put out a record on Nitro?

Out on Patrol
07-16-2008, 07:51 PM
Sorry to digress but I must say that I hope with all my strength that The Offspring make albums and keep going for at least another 10 years; they have managed to get four out in that time before, although I think it is more important that they take their time. Whereas I probably would not wish to see the band wither, fifty/fifty-five is not old for a man. Rise and Fall by itself shows age does not have such a potent effect so suddenly, in fact, look at Fix You, it can be a virtue.

The problem they have is that it might have difficulty shaking this 'Pretty Fly white guy' image people unfairly have of them, maybe Rise and Fall was the beginning of this. Certainly a heavier, slightly more cohesive album this time around would help the old cloud of time wash awa... Never mind.

Ps Mk.II: As for moving to a smaller label, I think that would be a good idea. The band has enough loyal fans to make money whatever they do and I think this would be benificial to the music, especially (not wishing to sound monotonous) if they are going to go for a cohesive sound. Is it possible that Dexter could put out a record on Nitro?

1) Heavier... HEAVIER??? Do you think it's heavier?? We can consider songs 1 2 4 5 as "heaviers", but, the album heavier?? I disagree..

2) I agree with this. The idea of puttin out a record on Nitro came to me a few days ago, while listening to them. I think it'd be better for their music.

jacknife737
07-16-2008, 08:10 PM
If the band were ever to return to an indie, my money would be on Fat Wreck, the guys are friends with Mike and co, plus it would be big enough to handle a release the size of a new Offspring record. I think Dexter wants to keep Nitro as his own thing, a place to put out music he likes, not his own stuff. Nitro is not a very large label, and i doubt it would have the resources to release and distribute an album by the band the size of the Offspring.

Thomas
07-16-2008, 10:27 PM
I don't care what anyone says, Co1 is a very cohesive album.

+1000000

Conspiracy of One, although has 2 (count 'em, 2) weak tracks is the most cohesive and stable album they've ever released. I think if they replaced Original Prankster with Huck It, then there would be very little question that it would be considered on par with Ixnay on the Hombre, especially if they marketed it more as the concept album that it is. It's really a shame that the first two singles were crap and when they tried releasing a really good song from it (Million Miles Away) everyone was already bored of it. The album flows MUCH better than any other album they've released.


As for this latest album and future albums, I think it's good that they are releasing more diverse albums, but I wouldn't want them to write something diverse for the sake of being diverse. If they happen to be in a PUNK RAWK mood for a few months and only write songs like that, I would much prefer an album like ignition than to have them force a diverse album. On the flipside, if they are in one of those Barry Manillow/Michael Bolton moods for a few months and only write slower tracks, I would prefer that to them forcing out more harder songs (fortunately, I don't think we have to worry about that).

Personally, I can picture these guys being around for quite some time. I saw Rush live recently and despite their age, they were putting out just as much energy, if not more, than in their younger years, and that's some freaking difficult music to be continuously writing for 30 years. Shoot. Even artists like Van Halen, Ozzy Osbourne and the Rolling Stones are going strong, and look at the abuse those guys have brought upon themselves. The Offspring are all very lively guys and it's obvious that they take very good care of themselves, much unlike all these other artists who have been pumping themselves full of chemicals for decades and can still put out amazing live performances. Rise and Fall, Rage and Grace really shows us how, despite their age (which, relatively speaking, is still pretty young), they can really come together and put out an album that is just as good, if not better, than their albums from their "prime". They even seem to get along really well, so I expect to see these guys around for many years to come.

</novel>

Bipolar Bear
07-16-2008, 10:42 PM
Diverse albums have a larger chance of being liked by anyone, but have a lesser chance of being COMPLETELY liked by anyone. Since I liked Offspring's old style, I would completely love any cohesive album they'd make if it followed their style. However, and although I do appreciate change, there are 2 or 3 songs on RAFRAG which I dislike.

Thomas
07-16-2008, 10:43 PM
Good points, but, for the love of God, change your signature.

Bipolar Bear
07-16-2008, 10:48 PM
Good points, but, for the love of God, change your signature.

Haha yeah it's starting to make me dizzy too.

Budzy
07-17-2008, 12:18 AM
Diverse? Cohesive?
mind dumbing it down a bit for us?
i dont know what they mean. so i picked cohesive.

IamSam
07-17-2008, 12:21 AM
Diverse? Cohesive?
mind dumbing it down a bit for us?
i dont know what they mean. so i picked cohesive.

Diverse: Many different things or sounds
Cohesive: The ability of the songs to fit together well or crumble and fall.

Budzy
07-17-2008, 12:28 AM
Diverse: Many different things or sounds
Cohesive: The ability of the songs to fit together well or crumble and fall.

cheers.
damn shoulda picked diverse. hahaha

Stylie
07-17-2008, 02:47 AM
Yep, I really hope that they will still rock in many, many years. They have the energy.

Out on Patrol
07-17-2008, 12:20 PM
Diverse albums have a larger chance of being liked by anyone, but have a lesser chance of being COMPLETELY liked by anyone. Since I liked Offspring's old style, I would completely love any cohesive album they'd make if it followed their style. However, and although I do appreciate change, there are 2 or 3 songs on RAFRAG which I dislike.


This is a phrase that resumes the truth.
You should use it as your signature!

You're right man!

Cohesive albums may be liked by less people, but those who like it, like the whole "thing".

ps: I chose cohesive

ps2: I also think CO1 is cohesive, even though we can find some "different" sounds, such as Living in a Chaos, Special Delivery, Vultures,etc. Even though those different sounds we can hear in the album, it is cohesive and follows a pattern.
I prefer that kind of albums. Not the ones who just look like songs put together.

Bipolar Bear
07-17-2008, 12:51 PM
This is a phrase that resumes the truth.
You should use it as your signature!

You're right man!

Cohesive albums may be liked by less people, but those who like it, like the whole "thing".

ps: I chose cohesive

ps2: I also think CO1 is cohesive, even though we can find some "different" sounds, such as Living in a Chaos, Special Delivery, Vultures,etc. Even though those different sounds we can hear in the album, it is cohesive and follows a pattern.
I prefer that kind of albums. Not the ones who just look like songs put together.

Thanks!
Unfortunately my signature is already filled with words of wisdom.

KrispyNotKrunchy
07-23-2008, 09:14 PM
IMO, Americana is the most cohesive, with the obvious exception of Pretty Fly and Get a Job. The rest of the songs have a similar energy. No Brakes, Walla Walla, Kids Aren't Alright... And Americana is my favorite Offspring album before RAFRAG. However, I think that is just luck because they hit my taste in music right on the nose.

A more diverse album, like Splinter, which has some fast moving songs (The Noose, Head Around You), some epic songs (Lightning Rod, Race Against Myself), and then it seemed like a buttload of throwaway songs (Neocon, Da Hui, When You're in Prison, Worst Hangover Ever) and is my least favorite album.

So, I'd have to go with cohesive as long as its not too poppy.

KrispyNotKrunchy
07-23-2008, 09:17 PM
I think Splinter might have been more successful WITHOUT Neocon, Worst Hangover Ever, Da Hui, or ESPECIALLY When You're in Prison. Even at 8 songs they could have called it an "extended" EP.

jacknife737
07-23-2008, 10:31 PM
I think Splinter might have been more successful WITHOUT Neocon, Worst Hangover Ever, Da Hui, or ESPECIALLY When You're in Prison. Even at 8 songs they could have called it an "extended" EP.

How would removing an intro suddenly make the album more "successful", or do you mean just better liked?

My opinion was that if the band cut out a few songs and released the Splinter EP, it would have gone down as one of the greatest efforts in the band's history, so it looks as if we may actually agree. Although i don't really see what people have against Neocon, it's only an intro.

Out on Patrol
07-24-2008, 09:38 AM
Neocon rocks!!! :cool:

Is a perfect song for an intro. Besides, it's followed by The Noose. That's excellent.

It would've been better without Da Hui, When You're In Prison, and maybe Hangover.

I like Hangover, but it doesn't fit in with the rest of the album...

Stylie
07-24-2008, 09:43 AM
Neocon rocks!!! :cool:

Is a perfect song for an intro. Besides, it's followed by The Noose. That's excellent.

It would've been better without Da Hui, When You're In Prison, and maybe Hangover.

I like Hangover, but it doesn't fit in with the rest of the album...
Yeah, Hangover is cool.
...but I really don't understand the thing with When You're In Prison. What a lame song that is. :/

RageAndLov
07-24-2008, 12:11 PM
A cohensive album is a better album i think. i like to look at an album as one whole piece, not 12 different parts. american idiot is a very cohensive album, and that is the reason it is so good! (no matter what other green day haters think). splinter would be maybe as good as AI if it was a cohensive album, with songs that matched the other, not some dark songs and some funny light hearted silly songs.



I think Dexter wants to keep Nitro as his own thing, a place to put out music he likes, not his own stuff. Nitro is not a very large label, and i doubt it would have the resources to release and distribute an album by the band the size of the Offspring.

yeah, just like S/T

RageAndLov
07-24-2008, 12:12 PM
I think Splinter might have been more successful WITHOUT Neocon, Worst Hangover Ever, Da Hui, or ESPECIALLY When You're in Prison. Even at 8 songs they could have called it an "extended" EP.

Extended Extended Play? :p

jacknife737
07-24-2008, 02:19 PM
yeah, just like S/T

The 1994 edition was distributed by Epitaph records, and by the time the 2001 edition was released there really wasn't a huge demand for it. An album the size of RAFRAG would kill Nitro's resources; there should be no question about that.

MOTO13
07-24-2008, 03:03 PM
Splinter was probably the most cohesive. Every song pretty much sucked. Seriously though, Ignition is easily their most cohesive album to date.

RageAndLov
07-24-2008, 03:57 PM
The 1994 edition was distributed by Epitaph records, and by the time the 2001 edition was released there really wasn't a huge demand for it. An album the size of RAFRAG would kill Nitro's resources; there should be no question about that.

yeah, i know :p
but he also said that dexter wouldn't release anything he had made himself, but he rereleased S/T though.
But you've got a point there.

Out on Patrol
07-24-2008, 04:32 PM
The 1995 Self Titled was released by Nitro Records & Epitaph

ps: Splinter cohesive??? :confused: