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bighead384
08-01-2008, 04:39 PM
I haven't eaten meat for over 3 years now. I'm trying to understand how people who eat meat justify their decision. Since I usually hear nothing but stupid cliches and one liners when people try to argue this subject, I'm going to have to request that people refrain from doing that in this thread. I don't care if you think vegetarians are pretentious or anything beside the point like that, just explain in an intelligent way why you personally think it's okay to eat meat.

Ryder1234
08-01-2008, 04:47 PM
I eat meat, and I don't really have an opinion on it, but I don't think its ok to. I kinda want to be a vegetarian, but I feel like I need meat now.

Tijs
08-01-2008, 04:54 PM
I eat meat because I love the taste of dead, bloody animal in my mouth.

Also, I think it's an important part of food. It's unnatural to me not to eat meat. We have the teeth for it and we have the organs that process it. People have always eaten meat, replacing it with plants isn't that logical. Meat also played an important role in human-evolution, so why break that chain? Sure, I don't always agree on how the food-production works, but I can't do much about that. I don't buy any battery caged products though, that's just cruel. I much rather pay a bit more.

Sunny
08-01-2008, 05:17 PM
bighead, you kinda sound like a douche. just thought you should know.

i used to be a vegetarian for a while. i think the meat industry is absolutely repulsive (i prefer my food without a side of torture, thanks) i felt better (physically) not eating meat, and since i feel kinda shitty about swatting mosquitoes, using my money to support the slaughter of fuzzy things is a rather upsetting thought.

that being said, i quit a while ago. my husband had to cut out carbs almost entirely, and if you leave out carbs and meat, there's not a whole lot of tasty stuff left to eat. amirite? so we went back to eating dead stuff, and don't get me wrong, it is delicious. but i miss the sort of "light" feeling i had when i was a vegetarian. it definitely feels healthier.

i try to only purchase organic/free range/cage free meat products because 1) the quality is much higher and 2) at least my money goes to farms which make an effort to be humane.

i think claiming that being a vegetarian is "unnatural" is pretty ridiculous, considering the level of artifice that surrounds us (and that we ingest) consider the amount of overprocessed shit, preservatives and food coloring you consume daily, and then get back to me on the whole "natural order" bullshit.

Little_Miss_1565
08-01-2008, 05:18 PM
I lol'd, Tijs.

I was vegetarian for six years, until last March. I just realized that I no longer cared about not eating meat. So I would say that the most compelling argument for eating meat is "because someone wants to," and the most compelling argument for not eating meat is "because someone doesn't want to." Even when I was veggie, it wasn't an ethical issue, and I have a hard time with people who turn it into a moral crusade.

My bandmate wrote a book called The Shameless Carnivore in which he details his manifesto of meat eating--that people should recognize and respect that their food had a face, and not eat at shameful industrialized places like McDonalds. He respects vegetarians because many of them have recognized this and therefore choose not to eat meat. What he is against is people who like their meat all processed and stripped of everything so it doesn't look like that which it once was, i.e. McD's burger patties made from 250 different cows. It's a good narrative of a meat-eater, and, full disclosure, I appear in several narrative episodes (as "Vegetarian Sarah").

The Shameless Carnivore on Amazon (http://www.amazon.com/Shameless-Carnivore-Manifesto-Meat-Lovers/dp/076792651X/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1217636249&sr=8-1)

bighead384
08-01-2008, 05:21 PM
bighead, you kinda sound like a douche. just thought you should know.

Did anybody else get that out of my original post?

Little_Miss_1565
08-01-2008, 05:23 PM
Since you asked, yeah, kinda.

bighead384
08-01-2008, 05:27 PM
Ok? How? I mean, it's really no secret that it's very common to hear stupid bullshit about how it's wussy or stupid to not eat meat, right? So I just pointed out that I didn't want to hear any of that. I wasn't trying to say that most people who eat meat have stupid arguments.

Little_Miss_1565
08-01-2008, 05:31 PM
You're coming off as someone who looks down on people who eat meat and want them to justify why they do something that they just do. You could have said "I stopped eating meat three years ago and I'm curious why others choose to eat meat," instead of using judgmental language like "justify" and being defensive from the outset about your being a vegetarian.

Stylie
08-01-2008, 05:37 PM
Of course I eat meat.

bighead384
08-01-2008, 05:40 PM
You're coming off as someone who looks down on people who eat meat and want them to justify why they do something that they just do. You could have said "I stopped eating meat three years ago and I'm curious why others choose to eat meat," instead of using judgmental language like "justify" and being defensive from the outset about your being a vegetarian.

As a male, I've guarantee that I've gotten a lot more shit about being a vegetarian then you, so maybe I'm naturally a bit defensive about it. Seriously, maybe I was the slightest(and even that's a stretch if you ask me) bit defensive, but can't you cut me some slack based on your knowledge of common condescending views/attitudes about vegetarianism?

Little_Miss_1565
08-01-2008, 05:44 PM
As a male, I've guarantee that I've gotten a lot more shit about being a vegetarian then you, so maybe I'm naturally a bit defensive about it. Seriously, maybe I was the slightest(and even that's a stretch if you ask me) bit defensive, but can't you cut me some slack based on your knowledge of common condescending views/attitudes about vegetarianism?

By the way, the martyr mode? Not making you look like not-a-douche. Not only am I older than you, but I was vegetarian for longer, and in the Midwest for a good chunk of that time. Seriously, you're going to tell me what life experiences I've had? Defensively purporting to have suffered more than another is not the hallmark of a non-douche.

And yeah, I could cut you some slack, but condescending attitudes towards vegetarians are often times just as much brought on themselves or others due to their attitudes towards meat eaters. It goes both ways, and is a self-perpetuating cycle unless you break it by treating others' dietary choices with the same respect that you want to receive for your own.

Szandi
08-01-2008, 05:46 PM
I didn't eat meat...just soya...but I was weak and very skinny...after I sampled the salami..since I eat meat.
But I always ate hamburger. :D I don't know why. I liked that and I like that. I wasn't strong willed. but now I don't care.
I eat that what I like...meat or not meat. never mind.

Sunny
08-01-2008, 05:48 PM
bighead, with all due respect, cry me a river. oh what a hardship. my husband 1. is male and 2. used to be a vegetarian for 8 years - half of that in fucking TEXAS of all places - and somehow that didn't turn him into a whiny douche of epic proportions.

nieh
08-01-2008, 05:48 PM
I haven't eaten meat for over 3 years now. I'm trying to understand how people who eat meat justify their decision. Since I usually hear nothing but stupid cliches and one liners when people try to argue this subject, I'm going to have to request that people refrain from doing that in this thread. I don't care if you think vegetarians are pretentious or anything beside the point like that, just explain in an intelligent way why you personally think it's okay to eat meat.

I don't think vegetarians are pretentious, but I do think you're a douche for asking this question.

I feel the need to point out that I wrote the above reply before reading anyone else's replies and was pleasantly surprised to see other people say basically the same thing.

bighead384
08-01-2008, 05:57 PM
By the way, the martyr mode? Not making you look like not-a-douche. Not only am I older than you, but I was vegetarian for longer, and in the Midwest for a good chunk of that time. Seriously, you're going to tell me what life experiences I've had? Defensively purporting to have suffered more than another is not the hallmark of a non-douche.

And yeah, I could cut you some slack, but condescending attitudes towards vegetarians are often times just as much brought on themselves or others due to their attitudes towards meat eaters. It goes both ways, and is a self-perpetuating cycle unless you break it by treating others' dietary choices with the same respect that you want to receive for your own.

Males get more shit about being vegetarian, plain and simple, end of story.

Little_Miss_1565
08-01-2008, 05:57 PM
Alright, alright, c'mon now, let's not all jump on the namecalling bandwagon.

/mom

WebDudette
08-01-2008, 05:58 PM
Yes, you come of as a douche.

Anyway, I eat meat because I enjoy the taste. That is my number 1 objective while eating. Eating something that taste good. Also, meat does not have to be unhealthy by any means.

This is not to say I don't enjoy fruits and vegetable. I looooooove potatoes, I could probably eat them with every meal. And onions? I could eat those with every meal. Apples, all sorts of berries, peaches, nectarines. All good stuff.

How do you feel about vegans bighead?

Little_Miss_1565
08-01-2008, 05:58 PM
Males get more shit about being vegetarian, plain and simple, end of story.

Wow.

If you wanted to show mutual respect for what someone else was saying, you might have wanted to say "Men get a lot of shit about being vegetarian," instead of having to frame it to make yourself look like a put-upon martyr. If you can't see why this rubs other people the wrong way, I don't know what else to say to you.

bighead384
08-01-2008, 05:59 PM
You so amazingly naive it's ridiculous. What planet are you from?

Edit:I don't feel like arguing this again, but just so readers know, 1565 edited the above post after I responded.

Sunny
08-01-2008, 06:00 PM
i approve of the widespread use of "douche" in this thread. yes.

bighead384
08-01-2008, 06:01 PM
If you can't admit that males get more shit than females about being vegetarian, this conversation is over. Hell, it was stupid of me to post something like this here anyway.

0r4ng3
08-01-2008, 06:03 PM
Wow, this thread got hostile real fast. Anyway...

"Animals eat other animals. It's nature."
"That's not true! We taught a lion to eat tofu!"

Little_Miss_1565
08-01-2008, 06:03 PM
You so amazingly naive it's ridiculous. What planet are you from?

The one that everyone else is from, where the world doesn't solely revolve around what they think of themselves. Regardless of how much you have actually suffered, you cannot, repeat cannot, claim to have suffered more than another without knowing what their story is and knowing whether or not it is quantitatively true. Insisting upon doing so, well, don't ask why you might piss someone off with it.

And please, everyone, stop calling him a douche. What I said about the self-perpetuating cycle also applies to this.

Camilamazed
08-01-2008, 06:04 PM
Well, I eat meat because I was taught to since I was a child and I got used to it. I would like to stop eating meat though not because it's so cool to be a vegetarian, but because when I do not eat meat I feel my digestion works better and I do not feel so full. However, It's too late I think too quit because I like it.

:rolleyes:

Thomas
08-01-2008, 06:14 PM
Wow, this thread got hostile real fast. Anyway...

"Animals eat other animals. It's nature."
"That's not true! We taught a lion to eat tofu!"

Did anyone else catch the severe win of this post? No? Didn't get the reference? oh well...

Anyhoo, I eat meat and oh lordy, I love it. I have nothing against vegetatians or vegans at all. Frankly (no pun intended), it leaves more better cuts of steak for me. I am friends with a few vegetarians and we seem to be able to eat around each other pretty well.

The only thing I HATE is when they get on their high horse and start criticizing me for eating meat.

"I haven't eaten meat in 3 years"
"I haven't had a banana in a month. Don't see me bragging."



EDIT: .... I forgot what i was going to say. I'll re-edit this post once I remember what it was.

EDIT2: Now i remember. When I do eat meat, I really do respect the animal that died. I think that's a bit of a problem in the United States. I dunno if it's the Mexican in me or what, but I always have great respect for the animal that gave it's life to make that oh-so-delicious steak in front of me. It seems like in America we like to make the meat seem as far from the original creature as possible, possibly to relieve some guilt for how much we over-eat McDonalds and stuff (btw, I LOOOOOOVE Big Macs!). That's probably why Americans get really squeamish whenever we see a plate with the head of the animal still on it.

0r4ng3
08-01-2008, 06:17 PM
The only reason we don't eat human is because it tastes lousy.

lil_punk_rawker
08-01-2008, 06:18 PM
Ive been vegetarian for about 4 years now. Most people I meet are like 'OMG how can you do that, that's so cool!' I have had a few people who don't agree and stir me up for it but (I don't mean to offend anyone) but how much shit can you get for being vegetarian?
I mean, I had a few old guys making jokes and people offering me meat bc I am veggie but that's about it. Has anyone got any worse????

nieh
08-01-2008, 06:18 PM
The only reason we don't eat human is because it tastes lousy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hufu

bighead384
08-01-2008, 06:19 PM
Alright, I'm just gonna lay all my cards out on the table here...

This thread just didn't work out the way I wanted it to. Hell, the reason I made this thread is because I'm starting to consider not being a vegetarian anymore, and here I am being considered one of the douchebag arrogant vegetarians. I guess I can kinda sorta see how in my first post I was slightly defensive. But vegetarians get a lot of shit, so I was just trying to keep out people who just want to give me shit for being a vegetarian. It's not about being a martyr, it's just plain true that you get a lot of shit if you don't eat meat. I shouldn't have said that I "guarantee" that as a male I've taken more shit about it (and god knows you guys pounced right on that opportunity), but I think it's pretty safe to say that's it's generally true that males are given a harder time about not eating meat.

Jakebert
08-01-2008, 06:19 PM
Yes, I eat meat, and I enjoy it. There's no big deep reason why I eat it, it's as simple as the fact that I like it. And if you choose not to eat meat for whatever reason, that's mighty fine too.

WebDudette
08-01-2008, 06:46 PM
bighead, why are you so stuck on getting shit for being a vegetarian?

I don't think anyone has called you out on that. I felt you were being condescending and slightly offensive with and a hint of 'better than thou' in your original post.

Also, sex is not the only factor that is included in being discriminated as a vegetarian. Family environment, if I was a vegetarian in this family I might just be disowned. Where you grew up, obviously vegetarians in New York are going to get less shit then vegetarians in Austin.

Back to the original topic, why do you think it is so wrong to eat meat? Is it a moral standing? Because I have no qualms about eating meat, and it is not because it is disguised as a hamburger patty. I've eaten and killed some game and plenty of fish. Or is it a health issue? I have a friend who stopped eating meat AGAINST his doctors advise because his dad died of heart complications that he thought might have been caused by meat. Yes, of course it is not as healthy as fruit but if it is prepared properly there is no reason to not eat it. Hell it has plenty of good nutritions.

I would also like to hear your thoughts on Vegans?

adombomb222
08-01-2008, 07:02 PM
If you don't eat meat, you're a pussy. Its as simple as that.

Really I don't care where my meat comes from nor how it must be obtained. It tasest good and thats all i need to know. Also there are other meat eaters in the world, so why is it so hard for people to eat meat... It is natural.

lost_nvrfound
08-01-2008, 07:11 PM
Alright, I'm just gonna lay all my cards out on the table here...

This thread just didn't work out the way I wanted it to. Hell, the reason I made this thread is because I'm starting to consider not being a vegetarian anymore, and here I am being considered one of the douchebag arrogant vegetarians. I guess I can kinda sorta see how in my first post I was slightly defensive. But vegetarians get a lot of shit, so I was just trying to keep out people who just want to give me shit for being a vegetarian. It's not about being a martyr, it's just plain true that you get a lot of shit if you don't eat meat. I shouldn't have said that I "guarantee" that as a male I've taken more shit about it (and god knows you guys pounced right on that opportunity), but I think it's pretty safe to say that's it's generally true that males are given a harder time about not eating meat.

My only problem with your posts is that EVERYONE gets shit for something. There is always something! So such an issue is really a nondiscussion. Like Oxygene going on about the shit he gets for being a "real punk" (without taking into account the fact that the golden years of punk pre-date his existence).

As far as eating meat, I don't feel the need to justify it. Its human nature. Many animals eat other animals. Some animals eat humans. Thats life.

Now my sister is a vegetarian. She irritates me like nothing else. Not the fact that she won't eat meat. Its that she initially stopped eating meat because when she didn't eat it, she felt better. But now she's all "PETA! OMG! Save the animals! Meat is murder!" And all the mumbo jumbo that goes along with it.

She's even gotten to the point of "I won't eat jello because gelatin comes from an enzyme in a cows stomach." This is true, but she doesn't have a single fucking clue about what she is talking about. If she'd do a little research and find out just how much she'd really have to give up in order to really go that route, she'd shut her ignorant mouth.

I don't care what you advocate as a person, but unless you take the time to really research the topic and understand exactly what it is that you are talking about, you're just wasting oxygen.

Little_Miss_1565
08-01-2008, 07:16 PM
She's even gotten to the point of "I won't eat jello because gelatin comes from an enzyme in a cows stomach." This is true, but she doesn't have a single fucking clue about what she is talking about. If she'd do a little research and find out just how much she'd really have to give up in order to really go that route, she'd shut her ignorant mouth.

I thought about doing that until I realized that I would have to give up Skittles and it was probably then that I should have realized that I didn't really care that much about being vegetarian. though I knew my main reason for sticking with it is because I dropped a ton of weight and went from being fat goth girl to hot goth girl. ;)

But, just a point of order, gelatin does not come from a cow's stomach. Rather, it is the result of boiling cow hooves and connective tissue.

lost_nvrfound
08-01-2008, 07:18 PM
I thought about doing that until I realized that I would have to give up Skittles and it was probably then that I should have realized that I didn't really care that much about being vegetarian. though I knew my main reason for sticking with it is because I dropped a ton of weight and went from being fat goth girl to hot goth girl.
HAHA! What kind of life is it without skittles?

adombomb222
08-01-2008, 07:20 PM
HAHA! What kind of life is it without skittles?


Don't dis Skittles... They are the rainbow!!

0r4ng3
08-01-2008, 07:25 PM
I'm pretty sure that was praise of Skittles. Because they're awesome.

nieh
08-01-2008, 07:27 PM
She's even gotten to the point of "I won't eat jello because gelatin comes from an enzyme in a cows stomach." This is true, but she doesn't have a single fucking clue about what she is talking about. If she'd do a little research and find out just how much she'd really have to give up in order to really go that route, she'd shut her ignorant mouth.

Gelatin is made from bones, which means an animal has to die for jello to exist. Even if it were just an enzyme from an animal's stomach that could be taken from them without killing them, avoiding things like that is what's considered being vegan, and yes, most people that go vegan know just how much they have to avoid.

adombomb222
08-01-2008, 07:29 PM
Its boraderline... I'll let it silde, this time.

Praise the Skittles and pass the ammunition!

GreenTerror
08-01-2008, 07:30 PM
If you don't eat meat, you're a pussy. Its as simple as that.

Really I don't care where my meat comes from nor how it must be obtained. It tasest good and thats all i need to know. Also there are other meat eaters in the world, so why is it so hard for people to eat meat... It is natural.

Agreed/basically what I would have said if I took the time to give a shit about justifying my food choices to other people.



She's even gotten to the point of "I won't eat jello because gelatin comes from an enzyme in a cows stomach." This is true, but she doesn't have a single fucking clue about what she is talking about. If she'd do a little research and find out just how much she'd really have to give up in order to really go that route, she'd shut her ignorant mouth.


Oh dear god with the Jell-O. It has collagen from the tissue in animals' joints or bones, not stomach enzymes. If that's the case, does she not drink milk, or eat cheese, anything with eggs like vegans?

Rag Doll
08-01-2008, 07:39 PM
I rarely eat meat. When I do, it's usually chicken....though every so often I'll get a craving for pepperoni pizza or my mom's homemade tacos. It isn't even so much that I feel bad for the animals (I do, I just hardcore try not to think about it because I get ridiculously upset)....it just isn't all that appealing to me.

Little_Miss_1565
08-01-2008, 07:45 PM
Gelatin is made from bones, which means an animal has to die for jello to exist. Even if it were just an enzyme from an animal's stomach that could be taken from them without killing them, avoiding things like that is what's considered being vegan, and yes, most people that go vegan know just how much they have to avoid.

*koff koff*



But, just a point of order, gelatin does not come from a cow's stomach. Rather, it is the result of boiling cow hooves and connective tissue.

IamSam
08-01-2008, 07:50 PM
Yes, I eat meat. I enjoyed some wonderful shrimp and lobster today. Tomorrow, I'm going to try my hand at making Pineapple Salsa Mahi Mahi.

GreenTerror
08-01-2008, 07:55 PM
They don't count fish/seafood as meat, though. Unless PETA changed the regulations for being vegetarian or something.

lost_nvrfound
08-01-2008, 07:58 PM
Gelatin is made from bones, which means an animal has to die for jello to exist.
If you'd read every post, you'd realize I had been corrected on this without the person trying to make me look like an ignoramous.

She's not vegan... just ignorant, but claiming to have vast knowledge and eating non dairy animal products without knowing. If she'd do a little research I wouldn't have a problem.

lost_nvrfound
08-01-2008, 07:59 PM
They don't count fish/seafood as meat, though. Unless PETA changed the regulations for being vegetarian or something.
It comes from an animal doesn't it? How could that not qualify as meat?

nieh
08-01-2008, 08:01 PM
*koff koff*

Yeah, I didn't read anything after his post before I hit reply. I need to stop doing that.

GreenTerror
08-01-2008, 08:02 PM
It comes from an animal doesn't it? How could that not qualify as meat?

Don't ask me, I have no fucking idea. That's what I figured, too. Fish, lobsters, shrimp = animals.

lost_nvrfound
08-01-2008, 08:11 PM
Don't ask me, I have no fucking idea. That's what I figured, too. Fish, lobsters, shrimp = animals.
Alas! The complexities of vegetarianism seem to be beyond me. I just don't get any of it. Its like, there are different levels of it that go beyond vegetarian and vegan. Like only eating white meat and fish makes you qualify as some type of vegetarian. If it weren't for bacon, I'd be one of those.

nieh
08-01-2008, 08:22 PM
I'm pretty sure being vegetarian normally implies you won't eat anything that means an animal had to die first (including fish, shrimp, etc.). However, a lot of people consider fish and shrimp to be fair game due to the fact that their nervous systems aren't as complex as mammals.

GreenTerror
08-01-2008, 08:25 PM
I Wiki'd it and Vegetarianism excludes fish/seafood from their diets, too, even the sub-categories of it. I remember every one of my friends who were vegetarians said that they could eat seafood. Maybe my friends were just dumb, then.

WebDudette
08-01-2008, 08:26 PM
I have a friend who is a vegan and really can't do much physical activity because of it. He gets light headed and is beyond skinny. Anyway, he eats gobstoppers like no other because its the only candy he can find, and he just chews them.

Little_Miss_1565
08-01-2008, 09:41 PM
I have a friend who is a vegan and really can't do much physical activity because of it.

Is your friend mildly retarded?

WebDudette
08-01-2008, 09:55 PM
Not at all, I just know that he get light headed after doing much of anything. He generally knows what he is talking about in most subjects and according to him it is because of his diet.

Maybe I missed something or do not remember the entire conversation.

Ninty Man
08-01-2008, 10:24 PM
Yes, I eat meat. That's because almost every mexican food-real mexican food, not the, sorry for say this, the garbage they sell in US as mexican food- has meat on it, like pork, cow and chicken, and goat... and rabbit, and turkey XD.

Little_Miss_1565
08-01-2008, 10:28 PM
Not at all, I just know that he get light headed after doing much of anything. He generally knows what he is talking about in most subjects and according to him it is because of his diet.

Maybe I missed something or do not remember the entire conversation.

I was trying to be funny, but seriously it's really not hard to be healthy while being a vegan, and healthy does not mean scrawny and lightheaded. Does he have food allergies and is restricted on what he can have?

WebDudette
08-01-2008, 10:32 PM
I don't believe so, I might ask him about it if I remember.

jacknife737
08-01-2008, 10:53 PM
I eat meat; I don't have any main justification for it, because i don't feel that i need one.

Endymion
08-02-2008, 12:00 AM
so my friend took me to this awesome restaurant in lakewood today. i had what was called the smokehouse: bbq chicken breast, bacon, ham, cheese, tomato and lettuce on a bun. it was amazing.

WebDudette
08-02-2008, 12:08 AM
We have a place here that is called Delux.

They have huge burgers with bacon, bleu cheese, apple roasted onions on amazing bread. It was amazing.

F@ BANKZ
08-02-2008, 12:22 AM
I'm not sure about free range products; people are dying in foreign countries because they cannot afford enough food to even survive and we are taking up an abundance of perfectly good farmland in order to make the animal's life more comfortable. Statistically there isn't even enough fertile land in the world to keep everybody alive anymore even if they had an equal share. I am not pro-factory farming by any standards, so I suppose that I believe a balance is in order (I should become vegan really but I wouldn't be able to eat semi-healthily with that sort of diet). If free-range farming is conducted on infertile land (I don't know if how often this is the case) then I don't see such a large problem with it.

As you may have guessed I do not eat meat. Ethical issues, I was eating ham one day and thought about how it had been an animal, and then became gradually less keen day by day.

Oxygene
08-02-2008, 01:38 AM
You guys don't eat meat...

You guys are all pussies, when you raw meat, then you can say you aren't a vegetarian.

Shit like this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steak_tartare make you meat eaters :)

Anyway on the serious side, I know this is a one liner but if all the other arguments are wrong, this is still right:

I didn't climb to the top of the food chain to graze the fields.

In other words, we are the species at the very top of the food chain. How is it natural we don't consume some of the food we were engineered by nature to consume? It is natural for primates to consume some meat, some consume more than others (gorillas who we are a lot like - according to some, the most like - consume a great deal less than chimps), but we have the digestive tract the teeth etc. The only real question (and the only real moral question) here is how MUCH meat can one consume. Over consumption is the only valid issue here. I know that's a bitch to all you current and ex mindless veggies(operative word mindless.. not all veggies are mindless, before my ass gets handed to me by the PC police). Also this - I feel better bullshit is all in your head. If it makes you feel better, because you hardwired yourself to feel better that's fine. Whatever floats your boat, be happy.. but don't use words like "justify" eating meat, and don't make pseudoscientific assumptions about health.

By the way, if you wanna go the "holier than thou" route I suggest you buy the entire package http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fruitarianism

Would help with the credibility.

bighead384
08-02-2008, 02:01 AM
but don't use words like "justify" eating meat, and don't make pseudoscientific assumptions about health.

Petty argument again here, but I straight up don't understand the issue with my use of the word "justify". As far as I know, it doesn't necessarily indicate a condescending tone...that's not what I was going for anyway. I had to look it up, and it just means basically "to explain". And that's all I was looking for.

Sunny
08-02-2008, 04:11 AM
aw, damn, i go to sleep and the thread fills up with retards. ;(

adombomb222
08-02-2008, 08:59 AM
They don't count fish/seafood as meat, though. Unless PETA changed the regulations for being vegetarian or something.

You take your eating habits from PETA?

Sunny
08-02-2008, 09:02 AM
do you know how to read? she basically agreed with you a few posts up.

HornyPope
08-02-2008, 09:14 AM
I thought about doing that until I realized that I would have to give up Skittles and it was probably then that I should have realized that I didn't really care that much about being vegetarian. though I knew my main reason for sticking with it is because I dropped a ton of weight and went from being fat goth girl to hot goth girl. ;)


What's really important is you kept your big tatas in the process.

JohnnyNemesis
08-02-2008, 09:27 AM
After reading this thread, I take back everything I say about people generally not being idiots.

Wait...

Tizzalicious
08-02-2008, 10:32 AM
I rarely eat meat. When I do, it's usually chicken....though every so often I'll get a craving for pepperoni pizza or my mom's homemade tacos. It isn't even so much that I feel bad for the animals (I do, I just hardcore try not to think about it because I get ridiculously upset)....it just isn't all that appealing to me.

This is exactly how I feel about meat.

I don't really like it, so I don't eat it much. The meat I do like, I eat, but I do not like to think about the fact that I'm actually eating an animal, because I lose my apetite right away if I do.

I used to LOVE Wiener Schnitzel, especially the real ones in restaurants in Austria. Whenever we'd go there, and I ordered, my dad would start talking about how how saw a pig walking in the back of the restaurant, to put me off my food. Sad thing is, it worked too.

Whenever I make a meal with meat in it, I usually dump half of mine on Per's plate.

Little_Miss_1565
08-02-2008, 10:35 AM
I Wiki'd it and Vegetarianism excludes fish/seafood from their diets, too, even the sub-categories of it. I remember every one of my friends who were vegetarians said that they could eat seafood. Maybe my friends were just dumb, then.

Very yes. Vegetarians who eat seafood are pescatarians, though they often have to just say they're vegetarians because people don't understand what pescatarian means.


You guys don't eat meat...

Dude, read the thread. Most people posting here have said they do eat meat.


Petty argument again here, but I straight up don't understand the issue with my use of the word "justify". As far as I know, it doesn't necessarily indicate a condescending tone...that's not what I was going for anyway. I had to look it up, and it just means basically "to explain". And that's all I was looking for.

We're not talking about dictionary meaning here, it's the implied attitudes that go with it. If you don't feel it important to pay attention to what words imply, please do not ever be surprised again when what you say pisses people off for reasons you do not understand.


What's really important is you kept your big tatas in the process.

Kind of. I was a DDD at my heaviest, and now I'm down to a single D. Life is pain. :(

wheelchairman
08-02-2008, 12:18 PM
"because someone wants to,"


Yeah this would be my "justification". Although I like how people believe they have a right to make people justify their dietary choices.

I miss the days when people didn't stick their noses into other peoples business. Did those days ever exist?

The most compelling argument for vegetarianism is all the antibiotics in our meat weakens our immune system. But it just tastes so good. If we could afford it we'd probably by ecological (organic..?) meat. But on our measly income that's just silly.

OffspringFreakess
08-02-2008, 02:36 PM
i don't eat meat. tommorow will be one year of vegetarianism! hahah.


i do eat some fish (tuna, mostly) and shrimp occasionally. and i do eat eggs and cheese and most dairy. i like soymilk better than regular milk. but i'll drink both.

i do have small trouble getting the nutrients i need. i take medication and i'm quite clueless about taking different vitamins and other supplements along with it, in case some crazy reaction comes by.

Tijs
08-02-2008, 02:49 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Muvz6OnY4O8

Betty
08-02-2008, 04:11 PM
Meat eh?

Well, I guess because I like it for one, and I could use the "it's a part of evolution and is therefore 'natural'" argument too.

But healthwise, I think it's easier, and maybe better. I mean, you can be a healthy vegetarian. But if you're going for the healthiest possible diet available, then I think you could do it better (or at the very least, easier) by incorporating meat (I can't completely back this statement up so I could be wrong, but it seems right). Most people aren't going for the healthiest diet available anyway though, so that point doesn't always hold water. And it didn't for me when I used to use it either, cause I wasn't the healthiest, but I was pretty decent.

But I've been eating extremely healthy for about 9 months now, both to be healthier and to lose fat. (It's awesome, getting great results for both!) And I got on this big weightlifting kick, so I guess I started eating like a bodybuilder. Lots of meals, lots of protein. Fewer carbs, pretty much no refined carbs, more good fats. And it would be extremely difficult to get as much protein as I take in without meat. On an average day, I'll have an egg with my breakfast, and meat for two meals... maybe a small salmon fillet and 1/2-1 chicken breast. Then I'll have yogourt, cottage cheese, nuts, beans, and whey powder in addition to that for a few snacks/meals. A vegan definitely couldn't do it. You'd be left with nuts, beans, and soy, which would be really hard. And what I've read suggests that soy is less effective as a protein source, but I haven't seriously researched it.

But there are a gazillion issues with healthiness anyway, so it's hard to make a perfect case for any diet choice. You should drink milk for calcium and for protein but you shouldn't drink milk cause it's pumped full of hormones, and you should eat salmon for protein and omega 3's, but you shouldn't cause it contains too many heavy metals... so what to really do and what is really best? I'm still working on figuring it all out.

Little_Miss_1565
08-02-2008, 10:06 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Muvz6OnY4O8

Dear Tijs,

I love you.

Love always,
1565.


. A vegan definitely couldn't do it. You'd be left with nuts, beans, and soy, which would be really hard. And what I've read suggests that soy is less effective as a protein source, but I haven't seriously researched it.

There are actually more vegan bodybuilders than you might think. Actually, I think reading an interview with Davey Havok introduced me to the idea, which I wholeheartedly did not believe so I did some Googling and found out it was so. And that dude is riiiiipped.

Betty
08-02-2008, 10:21 PM
Goodness, now that you quote me, it sounds terrible. "A vegan would have a much more difficult time of it..." is definitely more what I meant. And I was trying to keep the whole post pretty positive.

Yeah, I've heard about a bunch too, and that it works out for them reasonably well. It's pretty impressive... it's hard enough eating healthy with every available option... Hell, I can't even imagine being lactose intolerant (my sincerest sympathies) cause I eat so much dairy for protein. I think I'd be okay to give up ice cream, milk, etc, tastewise, cause I don't absolutely love the stuff, but the cheese would break my heart.

Little_Miss_1565
08-02-2008, 10:24 PM
I was lactose intolerant (lactarded) for a while there but somehow forced myself to get over it. That is how much I love cheese. Mmmm, cheese.

I still drink soy milk though. Regular milk tastes disgusting to me now.

Betty
08-02-2008, 10:29 PM
Cheese and chocolate are two things I will never give up, ever, for any reason. I buy expensive stuff, and it helps get me through the day.

My roommate's big on the soy milk. She drinks this one type, vanilla flavour something or other. It's pretty good, I'd agree. I just don't drink much milk period. Used to just buy huge bottles of Nestle Quik and do chocolate milk like a little kid, but had to cut that out so now I put milk in my coffee or a smoothie every once in a while and that's about it.

RODNEYMULLEN
08-02-2008, 10:49 PM
I'm not a vegetarian, but i do feel bad about eating meat. I just love it so much. I don't eat at kfc or any of that shit though.

Llamas
08-02-2008, 11:01 PM
If you can't admit that males get more shit than females about being vegetarian, this conversation is over. Hell, it was stupid of me to post something like this here anyway.

It was very stupid of you to have made this thread, yes. But saying that men GENERALLY get more shit about it than females automatically means that YOU get more shit than 1565 is just STUPID. Women generally live longer than men, but one of my female friends died at the age of 21 while a male friend of mine is still alive at 23. Come on...


Alright, I'm just gonna lay all my cards out on the table here...

This thread just didn't work out the way I wanted it to. Hell, the reason I made this thread is because I'm starting to consider not being a vegetarian anymore, and here I am being considered one of the douchebag arrogant vegetarians. I guess I can kinda sorta see how in my first post I was slightly defensive. But vegetarians get a lot of shit, so I was just trying to keep out people who just want to give me shit for being a vegetarian. It's not about being a martyr, it's just plain true that you get a lot of shit if you don't eat meat. I shouldn't have said that I "guarantee" that as a male I've taken more shit about it (and god knows you guys pounced right on that opportunity), but I think it's pretty safe to say that's it's generally true that males are given a harder time about not eating meat.

A better way to have gone about it would be to say things like, "I know people have negative attitudes toward vegetarians a lot of times, so please keep your negativity out of this thread." Telling people they need to justify why they do something is very much implicate that you believe their beliefs are worthless and can't be argued for.

The worst part of this is that I'm wasting my time responding to this. bighead has proven over and over that he doesn't want intelligent conversation... he wants arguments. That's why he hasn't responded to a single post in this thread where someone actually DID explain their beliefs, which is what he originally asked.

WebDudette
08-02-2008, 11:33 PM
Haha, I forgot about DxH.

His arms are HUGE.

bighead384
08-03-2008, 12:02 AM
It was very stupid of you to have made this thread, yes. But saying that men GENERALLY get more shit about it than females automatically means that YOU get more shit than 1565 is just STUPID. Women generally live longer than men, but one of my female friends died at the age of 21 while a male friend of mine is still alive at 23. Come on...



A better way to have gone about it would be to say things like, "I know people have negative attitudes toward vegetarians a lot of times, so please keep your negativity out of this thread." Telling people they need to justify why they do something is very much implicate that you believe their beliefs are worthless and can't be argued for.

The worst part of this is that I'm wasting my time responding to this. bighead has proven over and over that he doesn't want intelligent conversation... he wants arguments. That's why he hasn't responded to a single post in this thread where someone actually DID explain their beliefs, which is what he originally asked.

That ain't what happened. Nice try.

Jakebert
08-03-2008, 12:07 AM
It sure seems like that's what happened, and I know it isn't just llamas and I that think that.

bighead384
08-03-2008, 12:11 AM
Been busy dealing with people trying to bullshit me. Anmd no one said anything besides that they don't care. So shut your mouth up ya slob.

Oxygene
08-03-2008, 12:29 AM
Dude, read the thread. Most people posting here have said they do eat meat.

Dude read the rest of the post. I was joking around saying anyone who doesn't eat uncooked raw ground beef with raw eggs is still a fruity vegetarian. I was kidding / joking / having fun.

My POV is that eating meat is natural.

Eating nothing but tons processed McDonalds shit isn't.

There should be a healthy balance we should strive for. Being on any end of the extreme is stupid IMHO. Or if it comes naturally to you, fine.. but it only applies to you.

Something like that :)


Kind of. I was a DDD at my heaviest, and now I'm down to a single D. Life is pain. :(

So you should be Big_Miss_1565 :) Poseur =)

Oxygene
08-03-2008, 12:35 AM
The most compelling argument for vegetarianism is all the antibiotics in our meat weakens our immune system. But it just tastes so good. If we could afford it we'd probably by ecological (organic..?) meat. But on our measly income that's just silly.

Keep in mind tho that that is a very north american specific problem. Or no that's a lie, but the scale of it is. I mean here where I live you have very easy access to both mass produced and organic. People still make it blah blah blah. In fact if you buy the cheapest like out in the market or at your local butcher shop, you can very easily buy organic shit. I think it's pretty much the same throughout the rest of Europe.

Although we also have "bio" or "organic" stores that are more expensive, but not crazy differences.

Oxygene
08-03-2008, 12:41 AM
It was very stupid of you to have made this thread, yes. But saying that men GENERALLY get more shit about it than females automatically means that YOU get more shit than 1565 is just STUPID. Women generally live longer than men, but one of my female friends died at the age of 21 while a male friend of mine is still alive at 23. Come on...

It is I think generally true that men get more shit for something like that.. I mean men will tolerate and put up with a whole lot as long as there is the chance of getting some pussy.

Of course it doesn't mean that badhead get more shit than 1565 you are absolutely right it is just STUPID.

And you were also right how he never reacted to anything.

I think I stated a very valid argument, and a suggestion about what the real question should be (how much and what kind of meat we eat), no reaction.

Paint_It_Black
08-03-2008, 01:43 AM
I guess I can kinda sorta see how in my first post I was slightly defensive. But vegetarians get a lot of shit, so I was just trying to keep out people who just want to give me shit for being a vegetarian. It's not about being a martyr, it's just plain true that you get a lot of shit if you don't eat meat. I shouldn't have said that I "guarantee" that as a male I've taken more shit about it (and god knows you guys pounced right on that opportunity), but I think it's pretty safe to say that's it's generally true that males are given a harder time about not eating meat.


If you had said this sooner, and not said some unfortunate things later, I think people would be going much easier on you.

Fact is you did sound like a douche at first, but I would suggest that we all ignore that now. It's been pointed out enough, and you made a slight concession towards acknowledging it yourself.

I'll accept that as a vegetarian you may have got a "lot of shit". You say you did, and I have no reason to doubt it. I can understand that would become highly irritating and make you defensive about the subject. If you're this defensive about it though I'd suggest not voluntarily bringing the subject up, but that's your choice.

Like some people have said though, part of the reason why vegetarians get some shit thrown their way is because of all the preachy vegetarians out there. We carnivores don't particularly like having our morality questioned because of what we have for lunch. And like someone said, this becomes an ugly cycle of criticism.

I love to eat meat. Absolutely love it. Is it healthy? I don't really care to be honest. Is it morally right? I don't know. Everyone needs to decide that for themselves. It's not my job to answer that question for you, and it's not your job to answer it for me. This comes back to simply respecting other peoples right to make their own decisions.

I'll admit that I personally can't "justify" eating meat on a philosophical level. If I had no other food options I'd happily kill an animal myself and eat it, because that would be a case of need. Since I do not need meat in the society I live in I do wonder if I am behaving ethically in supporting the meat industry. I used to tell myself that I'm not killing the animal so I'm not to "blame". Eventually I came to believe that's a bullshit argument. Someone out there is killing animals because he/she knows that I will buy it if they do. That puts the blood on my hands. This bothers me intellectually, because I've sort of reached the conclusion that I should give up meat. But emotionally I just don't seem to actually care. I like eating meat and don't intend to stop. So essentially I've reached the conclusion that I should care but I've accepted that I just don't. Most importantly of all though, I do not feel that everyone else should reach the same conclusions. It has to be whatever feels right to you.

Anyone like Star Trek? An interesting fact from Star Trek is that Vulcans do not eat meat. They consider it to be barbaric. I would not be surprised to see most humans eventually come to this conclusion, because I do believe that it is somewhat illogical to kill animals and devour their flesh when we don't need to. Of course, that's only illogical if you also believe that all life has value. If you think that a cow only exists for our benefit then you won't ever reach this same conclusion.

If I was raised in a society where vegetarianism was more common I'd perhaps have become one. But, as it is now, I only think that eating meat is wrong. I don't feel that it's wrong. I can't explain that anymore clearly, and hopefully most people will understand what I mean.

I should note that I have a tendency to think far too much, and I waste a lot of time analyzing issues like this in my head for no real purpose. Ah well, I get a kick out of it.

By the way, my wife switched to buying only organic food whenever possible, and buying only animal products that were certified as cruelty free or whatever it's called. I make some degree of effort to do the same thing when money allows. My wife has now become a vegetarian, for a mix of both practical and personal reasons. I can say that she's become a lot healthier and lost an amazing amount of weight in a short time. In large part I would say that this is because she no longer is eating fast food, so it's not that going vegetarian has inherently made her healthier, it's just taken away many of the extremely unhealthy options. She also tried being vegan, though she found that so impractical that she only attempts a vegan diet when eating at home.

At this time I have no plans to follow her down that path. If I do try it would only be as a temporary measure to lose weight in the same way she has done.

There, I tried to give you a really detailed and respectful answer to your initial post. I hope you might consider being less defensive here from now on.

Oh, and by the way, I agree with you that male vegetarians probably get more shit than female vegetarians. Eating meat is often considered a masculine trait. A man that chooses to not eat meat may seem less of a man to certain people. But then again, a man who chooses to not sleep around or not drink large amounts of alcohol may also be considered less of a man. The point is to ignore the opinions of idiots.

You know, I do have to spoil this a little by saying that the only male vegetarian I know later decided he is also a homosexual. You're not a homo, are you?

I'm kidding. Relax.

Offspring-Junkie
08-03-2008, 02:24 AM
Lol :D

calichix
08-03-2008, 05:25 AM
I stopped eating meat when I was a little kid like 8 or 9 after hearing about the way livestock is treated and seeing a slaughterhouse. I'm not bleeding heart about it anymore but meat just stopped being food. I've tried to eat it but it makes me gag. I recently started eating fish again but even that gives me a mini heartattack if the eyes are left on or something. Personally, I'm mildly embarrassed by my vegetarianism and feel like a wuss every time I get misty eyed during California Cows commercials. They've just got such big ol eyelashes and it's chickens if you raise them like pets will wait by the door for you to come home they're just like puppies. All the growth hormones, torture, no exposure to sunlight, chopped off limbs/beaks, etc etc is excessive cruelty for the sake of convenience that I don't want to be a part of but if you can hack it, you can hack it.

wheelchairman
08-03-2008, 08:14 AM
Keep in mind tho that that is a very north american specific problem. Or no that's a lie, but the scale of it is. I mean here where I live you have very easy access to both mass produced and organic. People still make it blah blah blah. In fact if you buy the cheapest like out in the market or at your local butcher shop, you can very easily buy organic shit. I think it's pretty much the same throughout the rest of Europe.

Although we also have "bio" or "organic" stores that are more expensive, but not crazy differences.
Ah well here it's the "bad" meat from Germany that we don't want polluting our health. However it wouldn't surprise me that the higher EU regulations regarding everything means that our meat isn't slowly plotting our collective death.

Butcher's here are for high quality meat, however it's been discovered that you can get the same quality meat for like a third of the price if you go to a Halal butchers. Smaaart.



Anyone like Star Trek? An interesting fact from Star Trek is that Vulcans do not eat meat. They consider it to be barbaric. I would not be surprised to see most humans eventually come to this conclusion, because I do believe that it is somewhat illogical to kill animals and devour their flesh when we don't need to. Of course, that's only illogical if you also believe that all life has value. If you think that a cow only exists for our benefit then you won't ever reach this same conclusion.

This is the only part of your post I skimmed. (Actually I just read it, but at FIRST).

disclaimer_07
08-03-2008, 08:18 AM
I eat meat. Bad me.

adombomb222
08-03-2008, 08:25 AM
I just don't get meat flavored food products: ramen, tofu and rice, amongst others. From where I stand thatís just fucked up... It's like, "Yea I'm a vegetarian, but I love the taste of meat, so I put that flavoring in my food." That's basically saying, "I like the taste of HUMAN but I know it's wrong, so I just put that flavoring in my food."

And if you've acquired the taste for meat... then wouldn't you have had to eaten meat before?

bighead384
08-03-2008, 08:35 AM
I just don't get meat flavored food products: ramen, tofu and rice, amongst others. From where I stand thatís just fucked up... It's like, "Yea I'm a vegetarian, but I love the taste of meat, so I put that flavoring in my food." That's basically saying, "I like the taste of HUMAN but I know it's wrong, so I just put that flavoring in my food."

And if you've acquired the taste for meat... then wouldn't you have had to eaten meat before?

Vegetarianism really has nothing to do with taste. Also, I know that the meat flavored Ramen nooodles are made with real meat.

Sunny
08-03-2008, 08:38 AM
I just don't get meat flavored food products: ramen, tofu and rice, amongst others. From where I stand thatís just fucked up... It's like, "Yea I'm a vegetarian, but I love the taste of meat, so I put that flavoring in my food." That's basically saying, "I like the taste of HUMAN but I know it's wrong, so I just put that flavoring in my food."

And if you've acquired the taste for meat... then wouldn't you have had to eaten meat before?

what's your point exactly? most vegetarians have eaten meat before. many think it's tasty. and?

nieh
08-03-2008, 08:39 AM
I just don't get meat flavored food products: ramen, tofu and rice, amongst others. From where I stand thatís just fucked up... It's like, "Yea I'm a vegetarian, but I love the taste of meat, so I put that flavoring in my food." That's basically saying, "I like the taste of HUMAN but I know it's wrong, so I just put that flavoring in my food."

And if you've acquired the taste for meat... then wouldn't you have had to eaten meat before?

All vegetarians have eaten meat before. It's not like people are born vegan and aren't allowed to be breast fed as babies as a result, it's something that's decided by them at some point during their life.

Little_Miss_1565
08-03-2008, 09:25 AM
Haha, I forgot about DxH.

His arms are HUGE.

And you just want him to hold you and bury your face in his muscular chest because it just makes you feel so SAFE, dogg, amirite?



So you should be Big_Miss_1565 :) Poseur =)

No moar hope 4 bettar dayz :(


I just don't get meat flavored food products: ramen, tofu and rice, amongst others. From where I stand that’s just fucked up... It's like, "Yea I'm a vegetarian, but I love the taste of meat, so I put that flavoring in my food." That's basically saying, "I like the taste of HUMAN but I know it's wrong, so I just put that flavoring in my food."

Everyone else seems to have gotten the other "WTF?" part of this post already, but like Bighead said, the meat flavorings in ramen are from real meat and vegetarians do not eat it. When I was veg, I would throw some vegetable boullion in a pot with 2 cups of water and throw in the ramen noodles with maybe some veggies and tofu once the water was boiling. That shit was good. So it didn't taste like meat, so it's really weird of you to say that.

The other thing is tofu and rice. Tofu doesn't taste like anything; the whole point of making it is to make it taste like tamari/soy sauce, curry, whatever else, and it has such a nice texture (and heartier textured if you slice it up and freeze it before you use it). So again, no meat flavoring, so it's weird of you to say that.

And again with rice. Julia Child says never to cook anything in just plain old water, so my mom taught me to make pasta and rice and everything with chicken boullion. It makes everything much more tasty. But, since chicken boullion is made from actual chicken, I changed that to vegetable boullion when I was vegetarian. Everything was still incredibly tasty. So no meat flavoring, weird of you to say that, etc.

What I've noticed in this thread, adombomb, is that your replies continually make it sound like you know what you're talking about when the truth is you don't know the first thing about what you're passing judgment on. What gives?


It's not like people are born vegan and aren't allowed to be breast fed as babies as a result

Point of order -- breast milk is considered vegan because it is voluntarily given, since humans are able to communicate consent to other humans etc. The bizarre vegan parents who ended up killing their children by trying to make them be raw foodists/hardxcore vegan from birth and denied them breast milk are crazy, not vegan.

Szandi
08-03-2008, 10:18 AM
"All vegetarians have eaten meat before."

My cousin never eat meat. His mom didn't give him meat. And now He say that he doesn't eat a dead animal.:rolleyes:

sKratch
08-03-2008, 10:56 AM
I eat meat because I think it's delicious, and I consider it to be an important part of my diet. When I cook, I generally try to buy higher quality meats, but organic is too fucking expensive for my grad student budget. That goes for milk, eggs, etc too. That's the plain truth of it.

Betty
08-03-2008, 05:37 PM
You're a grad student now? Geez, I feel like we're so outta touch.

adombomb222
08-03-2008, 09:28 PM
Everyone else seems to have gotten the other "WTF?" part of this post already, but like Bighead said, the meat flavorings in ramen are from real meat and vegetarians do not eat it. When I was veg, I would throw some vegetable boullion in a pot with 2 cups of water and throw in the ramen noodles with maybe some veggies and tofu once the water was boiling. That shit was good. So it didn't taste like meat, so it's really weird of you to say that.

The other thing is tofu and rice. Tofu doesn't taste like anything; the whole point of making it is to make it taste like tamari/soy sauce, curry, whatever else, and it has such a nice texture (and heartier textured if you slice it up and freeze it before you use it). So again, no meat flavoring, so it's weird of you to say that.

And again with rice. Julia Child says never to cook anything in just plain old water, so my mom taught me to make pasta and rice and everything with chicken boullion. It makes everything much more tasty. But, since chicken boullion is made from actual chicken, I changed that to vegetable boullion when I was vegetarian. Everything was still incredibly tasty. So no meat flavoring, weird of you to say that, etc.

What I've noticed in this thread, adombomb, is that your replies continually make it sound like you know what you're talking about when the truth is you don't know the first thing about what you're passing judgment on. What gives?


Well obviously I was not aware that the ramen seasoning was made with meat. And Iíve actually read the ingredients to both the noodles and soup base and it does contain ďbeef fatĒ. And like I said, I was not aware of that.

I am however aware of that tofu doesnít taste like anything. I also know seasoning are added, and when Iíve used it or have had it before it was cooked with beef, pork, lamb, chicken and sausage, the flavor of those meats were transferred into the tofu. Iíve also had it with out meats cooked with it and it had chicken flavoring. As with rice itís the same thing. Also Rice A Roni is something I eat, which I wasnít aware it contained beef products as well. (After reading the ingredients I found it contains ďdried beef brothĒ.) So Iíve come to the conclusion that most, if not all, meat flavored seasonings contain some kind of meat product. I was not aware of this fat before.

Now one the few vegetarian meals I have had soy based imitation beef product that tasted like beef (as well as rubber). This is where I got the notion that vegetarians' regularly eat meat-flavored foods. Which is way I find it odd/funny that vegetarians would eat meat-flavored products. And I know Dan wouldnít eat anything that had meat or meat products in it, and his parents are supportive, so I know for a fact that those meals did not contain meat products, and they did have meat flavored seasonings.

Iíve made few posts in here, not many too serious in fact. My first post was crude and childish. I believe my next few were about skittles? And then I was making a point about PETA. And my last post I do apologies for my arrogance since I wasnít aware that those seasonings had meat products in them. And I may not fully understand vegetarianism or the life style, but I have not made any health comments like I have before in a similar thread, because I donít know the health issues/benefits involved in the life style. Iíve only made sarcastic remarks and observations (observations which were under notions that have now been proven incorrect) in this thread.

Little_Miss_1565
08-03-2008, 09:39 PM
Not wanting to eat meat for ethical, practical, or any other reason doesn't stop someone from thinking that meat tastes good in and of itself, so why would it be weird?

adombomb222
08-03-2008, 09:47 PM
I don't exactly know how to put it in words? Why would you want to eat something that tastes like something you don't want to eat? This goes back to the human thing, would you think it was weird if someone were to eat human flavored ramen? And the reason I use human in this example is because most of society sees that as a taboo. I'm not a vegetarian but Iíd think vegetarians would see eating meat as a taboo. I'm just saying, to me, it seems like thereís something morally or philosophically odd about that, not wrong, just odd.

Little_Miss_1565
08-03-2008, 09:56 PM
Vegetarians don't see eating meat as a taboo. It's a choice, a personal one, and certainly a privileged choice to be able to decide not to eat something. That's also something that played into my decision to start eating meat again -- wanting to be able to eat anything that someone put down in front of me.

adombomb222
08-03-2008, 10:06 PM
Well then that statement would be directed to extreme vegetarians whom spread their agenda everywhere.

And donít get me wrong, just because I donít care how my meat is obtained doesnít mean I donít care about the cruelty involved. Iíd love to see animals slaughtered in a more humane way. Like Canadaís KFCís recently signed an agreement to only use chicken that meat certain criteria of slaughtering. That fact I picked up from Rise Against and their animal rights campaign.

TheUnholyNightbringer
08-04-2008, 12:31 AM
Yes, I eat meat, and I enjoy it. There's no big deep reason why I eat it, it's as simple as the fact that I like it. And if you choose not to eat meat for whatever reason, that's mighty fine too.

This.

That is all.

Vera
08-04-2008, 12:48 AM
Richard - Vulcans not eating meat might be inspired by high-caste Hindus being vegetarian, too. Often lower castes try to reach ritual purity by adopting Brahmin (highest caste) customs, such as being vegetarian.

wheelchairman
08-04-2008, 04:22 AM
That makes sense, Gene Roddenberry was a pretentious hippy douche so he would've been interested in dorky stuff like that :p

Paint_It_Black
08-04-2008, 07:52 AM
Vera, something like that crossed my mind too. I don't know much about Hindus, but somehow I ended up reading about them on wikipedia recently. That certainly wasn't why I originally went to wikipedia. I probably never even finished researching what I went there for. Damn links, can't resist, must click.

The best thing Roddenberry ever did for Star Trek was die. Wait, Ozymandias doesn't still post here does here? If so I'm deleting that last part.

Oxygene
08-04-2008, 08:44 AM
Actually meat doesn't really have it's own unique flavor, it's more the texture and nutritional value it holds, and how full you feel.

You need to spice the shit out of it, to make it taste good soo.... blah :)

Plus can vegan girls swallow? :)

Nina
08-04-2008, 09:34 AM
I like eating meat and don't intend to stop. So essentially I've reached the conclusion that I should care but I've accepted that I just don't. Most importantly of all though, I do not feel that everyone else should reach the same conclusions. It has to be whatever feels right to you.


That sums it up for me perfectly.

Also, a while ago I discovered that I like fish much more than I used to think. Now it has really grown on me.

Jakebert
08-04-2008, 09:48 AM
I don't get vegetarians who eat chicken and fish. Why not just go for the best of both worlds and eat penguin?

0r4ng3
08-04-2008, 09:53 AM
I would eat penguin if Morgan Freeman narrated.

Jesus
08-04-2008, 10:23 AM
I've started to eat less meat, but that's basically only for climate change considerations. "Animal reasons" don't make much sense to me given the amount of ants etc I kill on a daily basis or the pleasure I get from killing a mosquito that has annoyed me (then again, I try to avoid "cruelty meat" or halal meat for torture reasons).

Little_Miss_1565
08-04-2008, 10:26 AM
I don't get vegetarians who eat chicken and fish.

Those people aren't vegetarians. What is there to get?


(then again, I try to avoid "cruelty meat" or halal meat for torture reasons).

Aren't halal rules like kosher rules in that the meat is often of better quality and killed humanely?

Jesus
08-04-2008, 10:35 AM
Aren't halal rules like kosher rules in that the meat is often of better quality and killed humanely?
Sadly no. The general practice here (and in most of the developped world I guess) is stunning the animal to an instant dead. With Halal meat the stunning isn't done, the throat of the animal gets cut and the animal has to bleed to dead. I know what I would prefer myself.

Jakebert
08-04-2008, 10:41 AM
Those people aren't vegetarians. What is there to get?

I was just trying to make a penguin joke. :(

WebDudette
08-04-2008, 12:09 PM
I went to grade school with a girl who once said 'I'm a vegetarian, I just have to eat meat twice a week for vitamins and nutrients.'

Pretty sure that means you just eat a lot of fruits and vegetables.

Also, I had vegetarian pizza last night, it was soggy and kind of old but still amazing. Tomatoes, spinach, cheese.

wheelchairman
08-04-2008, 06:12 PM
The best thing Roddenberry ever did for Star Trek was die. Wait, Ozymandias doesn't still post here does here? If so I'm deleting that last part.

It's true. I like TNG but the latter seasons were sooo much better. Even the first couple of seasons of DS9 (actually haven't gotten further than season 3 of DS9 but from memory I recall Voyager being pretty kickass. At least in the semi-latter seasons.)

Llamas
08-04-2008, 10:05 PM
I was just trying to make a penguin joke. :(

I can say I honestly giggled at your penguin joke. All is not lost.

Paint_It_Black
08-05-2008, 05:26 AM
It's true. I like TNG but the latter seasons were sooo much better. Even the first couple of seasons of DS9 (actually haven't gotten further than season 3 of DS9 but from memory I recall Voyager being pretty kickass. At least in the semi-latter seasons.)

Voyager definitely picked up as it progressed, but you have to sit through the early ones to fully appreciate it all.

DS9 is my favorite, excluding Enterprise. DS9 probably has the least Roddenberry influence of them all. In fact, I've heard it said that they intentionally crammed it full of themes that Roddenberry never allowed. Such as major conflict between permanent characters, and technology having a bad side. There's war, genocide, betrayal, and officers disregarding protocols in even ways Kirk wouldn't have considered. It's got the finest writing and best characters of all the Trek shows. It's the show that made me a Trek fan to begin with.

DS9 is also the least popular Star Trek show amongst Trekkies, making me somewhat less nerdy by loving it. Maybe.

yellow
08-05-2008, 05:38 AM
I haven't eaten meat for over 3 years now. I'm trying to understand how people who eat meat justify their decision. Since I usually hear nothing but stupid cliches and one liners when people try to argue this subject, I'm going to have to request that people refrain from doing that in this thread. I don't care if you think vegetarians are pretentious or anything beside the point like that, just explain in an intelligent way why you personally think it's okay to eat meat.

I eat meat all the time. Steak and potatoes oneof my favorite meals. I believe that animals play the role of being a food source. They sacafice their lives for the greater good. I bless, appreciate and am thankful to all of the animals are farmed for human benefit.

Sunny
08-05-2008, 05:53 AM
dude, honestly, i don't care if you eat meat or not, but your "appreciation" and "blessings" stuff is ridiculous.

animals aside, i own some goods that were probably made by child workers, i own some jewelry that probably perpetuated the exploitation of miners, and i'm not exactly proud of it, but i'm not going to go around spouting shit like "i appreciate the sacrifice and back-breaking labor of these workers, really, i do, my thoughts are with them". my appreciation and blessings (read: condescension) are not worth shit to these people, because my money actively contributed to their misery. really now.

Paint_It_Black
08-05-2008, 05:58 AM
I have no problem with the bless and appreciation. If that's his religious view (and I'm guessing it's religious) I can tolerate that no problem. But the sacrifice part is retarded. It makes it sound like they voluntarily give their lives for our culinary enjoyment.

Sunny
08-05-2008, 06:05 AM
well, it's my religious belief that expressing phony appreciation while doing nothing to alleviate the suffering you "appreciate" is nothing but giving your own ego a handjob.

pardon my crudeness.

and yeah, i don't think we can talk about "sacrifice" if the being in question didn't consent to being sacrificed. if i ever stumble upon a particularly giving chinchilla that would LOVE to warm my ass as a part of a fur coat... well, i'll let you know.

Oxygene
08-05-2008, 07:55 AM
well, it's my religious belief that expressing phony appreciation while doing nothing to alleviate the suffering you "appreciate" is nothing but giving your own ego a handjob.

pardon my crudeness.

and yeah, i don't think we can talk about "sacrifice" if the being in question didn't consent to being sacrificed. if i ever stumble upon a particularly giving chinchilla that would LOVE to warm my ass as a part of a fur coat... well, i'll let you know.

I think it's a bit arrogant to think you can actually contribute to alleviate the suffering. But that's just my take on it. I think that's true mental masturbation.
IE talking about how wrong child labor and sweatshops are, from the comfort of our western homes is real easy. But when you crunch the numbers and you realize, that those who work at sweatshops usually make over average salaries in the areas they are working, and it's their only surefire way of survival. It becomes a whole other story.

I'm not attacking you I'm just saying the whole thing is way too utterly fucked up for us to be able to change it on a micro level.. perhaps even a macro level!

Besides everything is made in a china now anyway...

Sunny
08-05-2008, 08:04 AM
I think it's a bit arrogant to think you can actually contribute to alleviate the suffering. But that's just my take on it. I think that's true mental masturbation.
IE talking about how wrong child labor and sweatshops are, from the comfort of our western homes is real easy. But when you crunch the numbers and you realize, that those who work at sweatshops usually make over average salaries in the areas they are working, and it's their only surefire way of survival. It becomes a whole other story.

I'm not attacking you I'm just saying the whole thing is way too utterly fucked up for us to be able to change it on a micro level.. perhaps even a macro level!

Besides everything is made in a china now anyway...

i agree with you on some level, but here's the thing: say i want diamond earrings. i research it. i become aware that most diamonds come from questionable sources and there is a lot of exploitation involved. i have two options: decide that i don't really care that much, i want something sparkly, and buy it anyway - or decide that i care too much and would feel bad about the exploitative nature of the industry, and not buy the thing. from my perspective, both options are OK, because they are honest. however, if i buy the earrings and continue waxing poetic about how i appreciaaate the sacrifice the African children made so that i could wear something sparkly, and my blessings are with them as i wear my earrings... well, that's just disingenuous.

Oxygene
08-05-2008, 08:15 AM
i agree with you on some level, but here's the thing: say i want diamond earrings. i research it. i become aware that most diamonds come from questionable sources and there is a lot of exploitation involved. i have two options: decide that i don't really care that much, i want something sparkly, and buy it anyway - or decide that i care too much and would feel bad about the exploitative nature of the industry, and not buy the thing. from my perspective, both options are OK, because they are honest. however, if i buy the earrings and continue waxing poetic about how i appreciaaate the sacrifice the African children made so that i could wear something sparkly, and my blessings are with them as i wear my earrings... well, that's just disingenuous.

I understand.. you have a point more against the "appreciate the sacrifice" bullshit.. I grant you that. The thing is, if you won't buy it someone else will, so why not buy it. Ya know?

HornyPope
08-05-2008, 08:23 AM
i agree with you on some level, but here's the thing: say i want diamond earrings. i research it. i become aware that most diamonds come from questionable sources and there is a lot of exploitation involved. i have two options: decide that i don't really care that much, i want something sparkly, and buy it anyway - or decide that i care too much and would feel bad about the exploitative nature of the industry, and not buy the thing. from my perspective, both options are OK, because they are honest. however, if i buy the earrings and continue waxing poetic about how i appreciaaate the sacrifice the African children made so that i could wear something sparkly, and my blessings are with them as i wear my earrings... well, that's just disingenuous.

Baby steps. First you have to challenge your values system and realize what's wrong and what's right, then you preach to everybody your new-found morals and only then, slowly, it becomes something you do yourself almost unconsciously. Isn't it how it works? You start with what's safe and easy...

Sunny
08-05-2008, 08:27 AM
Oxy - you're right, it's the "sacrifice" shit that bothers me.

regarding your other point, i think it's ok for a person to question the industry they support by spending their money. granted, a lot of it is about personal satisfaction, privilege and yes - ego stroking. ;p
a lot of activism and stuff like that is based on a desire for moral superiority, which is totally understandable and human.. right? we all want to feel like we're better/more aware than others. it's not necessarily a bad thing, especially if good things come out of it.

regarding shopping and ethics, you pick your battles, i guess. i know people who will not drink coffee unless it's certified fair trade. i'm not one of those people. lol. then again, i wouldn't spend my money on a fur coat, but i wear leather/shearling boots (although I don't send my phony-ass blessings to the sheep who will die for my next pair of Uggs).




Baby steps. First you have to challenge your values system and realize what's wrong and what's right, then you preach to everybody your new-found morals and only then, slowly, it becomes something you do yourself almost unconsciously. Isn't it how it works? You start with what's safe and easy...

true, but it's also the first step on the path to complacency. honestly, you or me thinking good thoughts towards creatures who died for our benefit is a purely selfish act, unless we take it a step further. and if we don't want to take it a step further, which is fine too, what's the point in thinking good thoughts in the first place?

yulka
08-05-2008, 09:56 AM
eating meat is a crime to animals
we killed them in a cruel way
just to eat them? please....

anyways, it's a crime
don't matter how you think
it's a crime
i'm a veggie and a animal rights activist

but who listens to us anyways?

adombomb222
08-05-2008, 10:32 AM
No one... So stop spreading your propaganda.
But you won’t because you’re all little persistent bastards.

Also where the hell do you get off saying killing animals is a crime?

HornyPope
08-05-2008, 10:40 AM
true, but it's also the first step on the path to complacency. honestly, you or me thinking good thoughts towards creatures who died for our benefit is a purely selfish act, unless we take it a step further. and if we don't want to take it a step further, which is fine too, what's the point in thinking good thoughts in the first place?

I agree, but I want to ask: how long did it take you to go from thoughts to action?

ad8
08-05-2008, 10:45 AM
eating meat is a crime to animals
we killed them in a cruel way
just to eat them? please....

anyways, it's a crime
don't matter how you think
it's a crime
i'm a veggie and a animal rights activist

but who listens to us anyways?

Hm... so every cat, hawk, fish or even frog is a murder since they also kill other beings to get food and survive? I agree that the majority of animals is mistreated by people, especially the ones that get to die for our food. But I don't agree that we can't kill them because it would be a crime. People need to eat meat. That is how nature works. And raising animals to provide the food for people is just a way to make sure you survive.

IamSam
08-05-2008, 12:31 PM
Personally this is what I think: If we are animals (which many people think we are) then what is wrong with us killing and eating animals when it happens in the wild all the time? What's the difference between us killing a cow to eat and a lion taking down a buffalo, suffocating it? Or a croc ripping and drowning its prey?

Just thoughts.

Little_Miss_1565
08-05-2008, 12:47 PM
I hope everyone who's coming into this thread to say stupid shit about loving killing things and eating them doesn't ever bother to complain when someone else says meat is murder. Jesus. It goes both ways.

Llamas
08-05-2008, 01:57 PM
Personally this is what I think: If we are animals (which many people think we are) then what is wrong with us killing and eating animals when it happens in the wild all the time? What's the difference between us killing a cow to eat and a lion taking down a buffalo, suffocating it? Or a croc ripping and drowning its prey?

Just thoughts.

First of all, it's further than "thinking" we are animals; scientifically speaking, humans ARE animals. It's a scientific fact.

Second of all, the argument is that we are far more evolved than a lion. A lion takes down a buffalo because it doesn't have the option to eat tofu and drink soy milk. It's about evolution, and I agree with that aspect. One argument I hear a lot is that human kind is constantly moving toward non-violence, little by little, and there's no real reason left to continue violence toward animals.

I can see that perspective just fine, and don't argue with it. However, I do like to eat meat, and I guess I'm just another asshole who says, my contribution makes no difference in the grand scheme- I stop eating meat, and it doesn't stop animals from dying.

Alison
08-05-2008, 02:13 PM
I haven't eaten meat in nearly 3 years. Moral reasons.

yulka
08-05-2008, 02:21 PM
okay i'll stop doing my propaganda
but i mean, just stop a second to think about the animal who was killed for you to enjoy your food
and as south parks and kyle puts it:
"it's a baby cow"

bighead384
08-05-2008, 02:45 PM
I can see that perspective just fine, and don't argue with it. However, I do like to eat meat, and I guess I'm just another asshole who says, my contribution makes no difference in the grand scheme- I stop eating meat, and it doesn't stop animals from dying.

True, some vegetarians cross the line into preaching and pretentiousness. But if meat eaters have nothing to say except something that boils down to "I don't care", then why do they demand that vegetarians are forbidden from even once reminding them about what they are really doing when they eat meat, or suggesting that they live without it?

Think about how other people are treated in political or ethical arguments when they say " I don't care". Why is this any different?

So maybe it can go both ways...but I understand the vegetarian side a lot more in most cases.

HornyPope
08-05-2008, 03:39 PM
I hope everyone who's coming into this thread to say stupid shit about loving killing things and eating them doesn't ever bother to complain when someone else says meat is murder. Jesus. It goes both ways.

*holds hands with Sarah*

Let's all agree that extremism is bad on all sides.

brian.offspring
08-05-2008, 03:46 PM
I haven't eaten meat for over 3 years now. I'm trying to understand how people who eat meat justify their decision. Since I usually hear nothing but stupid cliches and one liners when people try to argue this subject, I'm going to have to request that people refrain from doing that in this thread. I don't care if you think vegetarians are pretentious or anything beside the point like that, just explain in an intelligent way why you personally think it's okay to eat meat.

i eat meat every day . .
i couldn't live without it, we eat a lot of meat in Argentina . .
it's not bad to eat meat, we are omnivorous . . . no? (i think i've wrote the right word)

and why you don't eat meat? i mean, why don't you do it anymore?

Llamas
08-05-2008, 04:23 PM
True, some vegetarians cross the line into preaching and pretentiousness. But if meat eaters have nothing to say except something that boils down to "I don't care", then why do they demand that vegetarians are forbidden from even once reminding them about what they are really doing when they eat meat, or suggesting that they live without it?

Think about how other people are treated in political or ethical arguments when they say " I don't care". Why is this any different?

So maybe it can go both ways...but I understand the vegetarian side a lot more in most cases.

I'd just like to start off by saying that, when you make intelligent posts, you can do a good job. I wish you'd do this more often.

And you're right. If an omnivore just says, "Pffft I don't care! I'll eat meat cause whatev!" he/she shouldn't really care if someone tells them they're wrong. I'd imagine it going like:
"You know, I personally am vegetarian. I think it's a much better lifestyle and it's important to treat animals well."
"Hey! I don't care! *Eats a cow.*

Obviously, the side of being vegetarian is going to carry a lot more caring- you choose to be vegetarian, and you make big changes in your life to do so; an omnivore is living just as normal, very likely doesn't care. A vegetarian shouldn't really be expected not to care, either, as he/she is working against the odds. It's also stupid, because people who are omnivores usually don't want others to be omnivores for good reasons; it's usually like "omg stop being such a pussy and be a man."

Now, neither side should be preachy, of course. Pointing it out to someone more than once is unnecessary, as is airing videos about caged chickens at my University's dining room or trying to trick veggies into eating meat.

IamSam
08-05-2008, 04:54 PM
First of all, it's further than "thinking" we are animals; scientifically speaking, humans ARE animals. It's a scientific fact.

Second of all, the argument is that we are far more evolved than a lion. A lion takes down a buffalo because it doesn't have the option to eat tofu and drink soy milk. It's about evolution, and I agree with that aspect. One argument I hear a lot is that human kind is constantly moving toward non-violence, little by little, and there's no real reason left to continue violence toward animals.

I can see that perspective just fine, and don't argue with it. However, I do like to eat meat, and I guess I'm just another asshole who says, my contribution makes no difference in the grand scheme- I stop eating meat, and it doesn't stop animals from dying.

I agree with your first two points. However I do think that just because we are more highly evolved doesn't mean we lose the right to kill. I myself am a conservationalist. Conservation is about conserving a population of animals so they don't die nasty deaths of disease and famine. There have been times where populations of antelope have been too big and they starve. What's a worse death: Heart pierced by a bullet or starving to death?

I digress.

I can see humanity slowly moving towards non-violence, but I still believe that because of our evolved state, we should be placed in charge of protecting and safeguarding populations of animals.

I eat meat because I like the taste. I'm mainly a fish eater because of how healthy it is. That doesn't stop me from eating beef however. I think hunting and fishing is very sporting, if done correctly. I mainly buy my meat, however, because my luck fishing and hunting is poor. (0 animals killed in a hunt, 4 fish taken and not released in my 10 years of fishing).

Sunny
08-05-2008, 04:57 PM
No one... So stop spreading your propaganda.
But you won’t because you’re all little prescient bastards.


perhaps you should learn what certain words mean before you misuse them and make yourself look like a total moron. just a thought.


People need to eat meat. That is how nature works. And raising animals to provide the food for people is just a way to make sure you survive.

people don't need to eat meat. people *like* to eat meat. we can survive just fine without it, though.


Think about how other people are treated in political or ethical arguments when they say " I don't care". Why is this any different?

it's a personal choice. "reminding" people that you think their personal choice is wrong is rude and presumptuous. i don't think i'd have any friends if i ran around preaching to people about their lifestyle choices.


I agree, but I want to ask: how long did it take you to go from thoughts to action?

a while, of course. i think there is a difference, however, between "thinking good thoughts and considering taking action when i feel ready" and "thinking good thoughts in order to alleviate any moral doubts i might have, as if thinking good thoughts made any difference".

bighead384
08-05-2008, 05:31 PM
it's a personal choice. "reminding" people that you think their personal choice is wrong is rude and presumptuous. i don't think i'd have any friends if i ran around preaching to people about their lifestyle choices.


You would apply this same logic to a lifestyle choice that was made simply because you don't care?

bighead384
08-05-2008, 06:00 PM
I agree with your first two points. However I do think that just because we are more highly evolved doesn't mean we lose the right to kill. I myself am a conservationalist. Conservation is about conserving a population of animals so they don't die nasty deaths of disease and famine. There have been times where populations of antelope have been too big and they starve. What's a worse death: Heart pierced by a bullet or starving to death?

I digress.

I can see humanity slowly moving towards non-violence, but I still believe that because of our evolved state, we should be placed in charge of protecting and safeguarding populations of animals.

I eat meat because I like the taste. I'm mainly a fish eater because of how healthy it is. That doesn't stop me from eating beef however. I think hunting and fishing is very sporting, if done correctly. I mainly buy my meat, however, because my luck fishing and hunting is poor. (0 animals killed in a hunt, 4 fish taken and not released in my 10 years of fishing).

I don't know much about conversationalists, but the way you're presenting it, it seems like the only reason a conversationalist eats meat is to prevent problems that result from overpopulation. But how do you know that all the animals that you eat are in danger of overpopulation in the area you live? Do you actually look it up?

Sunny
08-05-2008, 06:04 PM
You would apply this same logic to a lifestyle choice that was made simply because you don't care?

here's the thing: i don't care if someone doesn't care. it's their food habits, their morals, and if you believe eating meat is a sin or bad karma or something, well, that's theirs too. i'm not going to embark on a mission to "convert" people. if someone expresses interests in the ethics of the meat industry or animal rights, i'm happy to point them towards relevant sources. otherwise, i have no desire to bring it up unless it comes up.

Jules69
08-05-2008, 06:06 PM
I love meat, even lamb!!

Little_Miss_1565
08-05-2008, 06:21 PM
*holds hands with Sarah*

Let's all agree that extremism is bad on all sides.

Kum-bay-yah, my lord...

IamSam
08-05-2008, 06:32 PM
I don't know much about conversationalists, but the way you're presenting it, it seems like the only reason a conversationalist eats meat is to prevent problems that result from overpopulation. But how do you know that all the animals that you eat are in danger of overpopulation in the area you live? Do you actually look it up?

Or do I look out my window and see a herd of 800 antelope lying down and dying in my front yard? (True answer/story)

If a population becomes too low, hunting is suspended because obviously the population couldn't deal with it, or there is another issue at hand.

Take the wolf for example. It use to be illegal to kill one. Then it became only legal to kill one if you caught it killing your stock (horse, cow, sheep etc). Now they are possibly going to start organizing hunts of wolves because they've become a menace to society.

Also, take bison. Bison were an endangered species. Now, because the herds have grown to a very good level, hunting has been opened to help thin out the herds to help with disease control, the main disease being Brucellosis. Brucellosis is a disease that causes bison to abort their calves, which is not good for the population. This disease can also spread to cattle, dogs, and humans. In humans it can cause chronic flu like symptoms.

Conservationists also make sure there is a healthy population and that it won't get too low. If the population gets to low, then studies are called in and hunts called off. Right now, Montana is attempting to bring back many native species of fish after overfishing throughout this past half century. Some species are illegal to catch and some streams are even off limits to anglers.

That's my 2Ę on conservation.

As for feed animals (fish farms, cattle, turkeys, etc) I don't feel too bad. Their population is high, they live short abundant lives, and I don't find their deaths cruel except in certain circumstances. I mainly count my blessings that I have something to eat on my plate instead of being picky if it came out of the ground or tromped around on it.

bighead384
08-05-2008, 06:37 PM
conSerVationalists

otherwise your post raises a gentle smile

That's funny...I spellchecked that word after copying it directly from IamSam's posts, and it changed it into that. I swore I changed it back though...

IamSam
08-05-2008, 06:51 PM
That's funny...I spellchecked that word after copying it directly from IamSam's posts, and it changed it into that. I swore I changed it back though...

Because I spelled it wrong in the first place because I was thinking faster than I could type. My bad. It should be 'conservationist', not conservationalist.

0r4ng3
08-05-2008, 07:48 PM
I just saw this article. It's an amusing coincidence.

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/article1517629.ece

Where's the beef?

Ryder1234
08-05-2008, 07:52 PM
So that's where Mcdick's get their beef.

Little_Miss_1565
08-05-2008, 09:23 PM
another amusing coincidence -- I was shopping at the Chinese market near my house and found bull pizzle in the freezer case. Pizzle meaning penis. Beef, McDick's, get it?

Ryder1234
08-05-2008, 09:26 PM
Yuuumm... :p ;)

KHWHD
08-05-2008, 09:27 PM
another amusing coincidence -- I was shopping at the Chinese market near my house and found bull pizzle in the freezer case. Pizzle meaning penis. Beef, McDick's, get it?

Barf. I get it.

Little_Miss_1565
08-05-2008, 09:34 PM
Haha. Apparently it enhances virility. Though my friend who wrote the book on meat eating that I've mentioned already in this thread ate pizzle for his research and said it tasted terrible and totally grossed him out. This is a man who loved rocky mountain oysters ("balls in your mouth!").

Ryder1234
08-05-2008, 09:46 PM
ate pizzle for his research and said it tasted terrible and totally grossed him out.

Yeah, I would imagine... :p:rolleyes:

Lizardus
08-05-2008, 10:42 PM
The real question here is, do you prefer pig or pork?

Vera
08-06-2008, 02:12 AM
Wow, I had no idea "pizzle" was Chinese for penis. You learn something new every day!

Alex101
08-06-2008, 05:18 PM
What kind of stupid question is this? Of course I eat meat!

Jakebert
08-06-2008, 05:23 PM
You don't win friends with salad.

Little_Miss_1565
08-06-2008, 10:47 PM
You don't win friends with salad.

And here I thought tossing salad was how you get LOTS of friends.

ZING!

TheJakes84
06-05-2012, 07:36 AM
I eat a well-cooked meal of meat. Nothing raw nor bloody just don't enjoy the animals to be chopped off, as long as I am not a vegan because vegetarians are strict dieters. At my house is always a carne asada aka mexican bbq and it's great with gringo bandito.

Baldwin
06-05-2012, 01:16 PM
What I've learned from this thread

- bighead is actually a candy-ass liberal CENSORSHIP. Who knew?
- Being an insecure meat-eater with a guilt complex actually makes you more annoying than being an evangelical vegan, somehow. When did this happen?
- Sarah's awkwardly phrased offer to toss some salads shut down the discussion for like, four years. Poor Sarah.
- The majority of the bbs has shitty taste in food, as well as music.
- Oxygene is a hypocritical UNICORN for impugning people's masculinity for eating their meat cooked, while praising a fancy DOWN WIT MODZ dish so soaked in sauces, capers and onions you can't even taste the meat. Seriously, is it even possible to have tasted tatar steak and still consider it masculine?
- iPunk needs to learn to read dates.
- Pizzle is Chinese for penis, and it tastes as bad as everything else the Chinese think is magic.

Little_Miss_1565
06-05-2012, 02:27 PM
- Sarah's awkwardly phrased offer to toss some salads shut down the discussion for like, four years. Poor Sarah.

:(:(:(

Also: o hai i fixed ur post 4 u

KickHimWhenHe'sDown
06-05-2012, 09:33 PM
What I've learned from this thread

- bighead is actually a candy-ass liberal CENSORSHIP. Who knew?
- Being an insecure meat-eater with a guilt complex actually makes you more annoying than being an evangelical vegan, somehow. When did this happen?
- Sarah's awkwardly phrased offer to toss some salads shut down the discussion for like, four years. Poor Sarah.
- The majority of the bbs has shitty taste in food, as well as music.
- Oxygene is a hypocritical UNICORN for impugning people's masculinity for eating their meat cooked, while praising a fancy DOWN WIT MODZ dish so soaked in sauces, capers and onions you can't even taste the meat. Seriously, is it even possible to have tasted tatar steak and still consider it masculine?
- iPunk needs to learn to read dates.
- Pizzle is Chinese for penis, and it tastes as bad as everything else the Chinese think is magic.
You're my new favorite person here. You're so blunt. My turn! Insult me!

Tracey90
06-06-2012, 04:28 AM
Hi!
As for me, I used to eat meat for my whole but gave up 2 years ago. I thought I'd be craving for pork after some time but surprisingly I don't really want it even when I catch a smell of bacon.
However I'm not going to keep my man without met, I think everyone should eat what they like. I hope you agree with me.

Cheers

TheNooseIsFalling
06-06-2012, 04:38 AM
Hi!
As for me, I used to eat meat for my whole but gave up 2 years ago. I thought I'd be craving for pork after some time but surprisingly I don't really want it even when I catch a smell of bacon.
However I'm not going to keep my man without met, I think everyone should eat what they like. I hope you agree with me.

Cheers

Slightly creepy

samseby
06-06-2012, 07:28 AM
http://boredmaiden.files.wordpress.com/2011/05/no_meat.jpg%3Fw%3D230%26h%3D300
Does it make me feel "better"? Physically & emotionally: Yup, I definitely guess so ;) not to mention the fact that I pay much more attention after having gone veggie to what I'm actually eating now that I read all the labels.

Lizardus
06-06-2012, 03:37 PM
^Vaginatarian.

Alien Invader
06-07-2012, 02:00 PM
http://boredmaiden.files.wordpress.com/2011/05/no_meat.jpg%3Fw%3D230%26h%3D300
Does it make me feel "better"? Physically & emotionally: Yup, I definitely guess so ;) not to mention the fact that I pay much more attention after having gone veggie to what I'm actually eating now that I read all the labels.

I read all the labels, too, and I'm very picky about what I put in my shopping cart, and I am a meat eater. So being a vegetarian and paying attention to what you eat are not necessarily connected. But I guess statistically vegetarians generally pay more attention to what they eat.

KickHimWhenHe'sDown
06-08-2012, 04:56 PM
I love meat. I can't imagine being a vegetarian.

Neil Patrick
06-15-2012, 05:40 AM
Yes I do but not poke because as to the research, it is not clean because it has some germs on the meat so I avoid poke.

TheJakes84
06-15-2012, 07:07 AM
What I've learned from this thread
- iPunk needs to learn to read dates.


What did I ever do to you?

Is that a personal insult?

Trust, I'm not even fucking offended by zero means.

WebDudette
06-15-2012, 07:09 AM
you sure sound offended.

Llamas
06-15-2012, 07:09 AM
Yes I do but not poke because as to the research, it is not clean because it has some germs on the meat so I avoid poke.

Dude, step it up. This spam is just not up to par with most of the stuff we get lately. You just look pathetic!

0r4ng3
06-15-2012, 07:11 AM
Yes I do but not poke because as to the research, it is not clean because it has some germs on the meat so I avoid poke.
I too avoid PokeMeat. Who knows where that Pidgey has been??

julabard
06-22-2012, 05:04 AM
I eat meat, my father is a butcher, so i've grown up in a world of guts!
I could be a vegetarian though, eating meals of only sprouts and peas would be rad!

Mechagodzilla2
06-23-2012, 07:13 PM
I eat meat because it tastes good.

KickHimWhenHe'sDown
06-24-2012, 01:09 PM
Yes, I and Jucky eat meat.
I don't think you have a single post that doesn't contain the word "Jucky"

KickHimWhenHe'sDown
06-24-2012, 04:08 PM
Jucky is my boyfriend.
This makes sense now.

yellow
06-24-2012, 05:43 PM
Yes. Meat and potatoes are my favorite. Filet mignon. Rack of lamb, chicken.

RageAndGrace
03-24-2013, 12:13 AM
I was a vegetarian for a total of about 3.5 years. I chose vegetarian to be cruelty free and also in an effort to improve my health and decrease my weight. Being cruelty free is a total plus, and I lost a lot of weight, but unfortunately I also lost nearly all of my hair. I didn't know it was my veggie diet until long after I was diagnosed with vitamin deficiencies, and supplements and shots did not restore the vitamins and protein I was not ingesting from meat.
Soy protein is okay, but has additives that I get sick from, usually MSG, so I would not ever eat it.
Reluctantly I went back to eating meat. I still need supplements from the damage done to my system. I am a little heavier than I want to be, but I prefer to have hair and not look sick.
Everyone is different, everyone should not look the same, but even in nature animals rely upon meat to sustain their protein metabolizing bodies. Your body is built to break down protein whether you provide it or not, and it will substitute with your own hair, cartilage, bones if you don't put some into it.

huckit
03-24-2013, 04:06 AM
Zero meat here.

And NO, it ain't because I give a flying fuck about the animals. However, I do give a shit about my health and what I put in my body!
People care more for what type of fuel they put in their cars, than what type of "fuel" they put in their bodies these days!!

I've never felt better physically - Have not touched meat for the past 5+ yrs. Have ran three marathons since, and not too shabby of a time either :)

KickHimWhenHe'sDown
03-24-2013, 01:41 PM
And NO, it ain't because I give a flying fuck about the animals.
That's the spirit!

Even if meat is somehow completely unhealthy, I'd rather have 70-80 years in my life of eating the delicious animals than 100 years of munching on leaves.

Llamas
03-24-2013, 02:39 PM
Even if meat is somehow completely unhealthy, I'd rather have 70-80 years in my life of eating the delicious animals than 100 years of munching on leaves.

I'm not a vegetarian (I rarely buy meat to cook at home, and most of my meals at home are meatless, but I'll eat what other people serve me, and I'll eat meat sometimes when I go out to eat or share with friends), but when people say things like this, it makes me really sad that the person hasn't had really good meatless food :( As someone said in this thread, meat itself doesn't even have much flavor - you have to season the crap out of it. There are meals that are only saved with some meat, but there are even more meals that simply don't need meat because they're so delicious as they are. One of the best burgers I've ever had was made without meat. And no, it wasn't soy or tofu. :P

RageAndLov
03-24-2013, 02:53 PM
http://sadpanda.us/images/1490920-HJKJHZV.jpg

huckit
03-25-2013, 12:03 AM
Brilliant - I love it.
I hate meat :) but that's still brilliant!

Alison
03-25-2013, 04:34 AM
Agree with Llamas.

It is sad when people think that all vegetarians eat is leaves and a few vegetables.

I used to love meat when I ate it, but I don't miss it at all anymore, because what I eat now is great, and I'm not missing out. A lot of the different meals I eat now way outdo anything with meat. And besides, these days there are so many meat substitutes that it barely makes much difference (although I prefer to eat homemade meals).
Even my mom says that since I became vegetarian, it has really opened up a lot of new meals to her, and she would happily eat a vegetarian meal over the usual roast chicken most days.

_Lost_
03-25-2013, 06:13 AM
I have this great distaste for handling raw meat, so I rarely cook with meat at all. Not to mention, it has an incredibly short shelf life. One of the greatest burgers I've ever had was a black bean burger(no meat). Soooooooooooo good. I make a ton of foods at home with eggs and beans and such for protein. Nom nom nom.

I do, however, love me some bacon. Don't think I could live without it. I have yet to find a suitable substitute.

KickHimWhenHe'sDown
03-25-2013, 06:35 AM
I'm not a vegetarian (I rarely buy meat to cook at home, and most of my meals at home are meatless, but I'll eat what other people serve me, and I'll eat meat sometimes when I go out to eat or share with friends), but when people say things like this, it makes me really sad that the person hasn't had really good meatless food :( As someone said in this thread, meat itself doesn't even have much flavor - you have to season the crap out of it. There are meals that are only saved with some meat, but there are even more meals that simply don't need meat because they're so delicious as they are. One of the best burgers I've ever had was made without meat. And no, it wasn't soy or tofu. :P
I suppose I just haven't been fed a good meatless meal before. I enjoy a wide range of meats, some with flavor (squirrel, game bird, deer, etc), and some with not so much natural flavor (beef, pork).
I won't knock something until I try it though. I'm not going to go out seeking a meatless meal, but I'll gladly eat one if presented with the chance.

WebDudette
03-25-2013, 06:57 AM
It's also sad that people think just because the meat they've had is tasteless, all of it is. Yeah, the chicken from Safeway is pretty tasteless, but that's not good chicken.

bighead384
03-25-2013, 07:36 AM
It's also sad that people think just because the meat they've had is tasteless, all of it is. Yeah, the chicken from Safeway is pretty tasteless, but that's not good chicken.

I never really got that shit back when I ate meat. I generally would always expect the sauce to carry most of the flavor with very little care as to the quality of the meat (provided it's at least decent). And I'm from the northeast where snobby degos have influenced the standards and expectations of quality.

Llamas
03-25-2013, 02:28 PM
It's also sad that people think just because the meat they've had is tasteless, all of it is. Yeah, the chicken from Safeway is pretty tasteless, but that's not good chicken.

I've had a lot of very high quality chicken, pork, and steak, organically grown (like, directly from the local farm) and quite expensive. Unseasoned, it has little flavor. Need spices and/or sauces. There are plenty of other foods besides meat that also need seasoning or sauce, but there are quite a few dishes without spices or sauces I'd rather eat that an unseasoned piece of meat.

wheelchairman
03-25-2013, 02:51 PM
Here's the main problem with vegetarians (and pretty much everyone else). Unless you're Bear Grylls you don't have a diet interesting enough to be worthy of conversation, and like 99.9% of diet-based conversational topics, no matter what your diet is (or isn't), its been talked to death a thousand times.

If someone says they are vegetarians and your first reaction is to say "I love meat", fucking staple your lips shut cause you're the most boring person in the room.

If you're a vegetarian and your first reaction is to find any excuse possible to bring it up; well see the sentence above.

If you're anything in-between, fuck you asshole, no one cares.

wheelchairman
03-25-2013, 03:01 PM
Voyager definitely picked up as it progressed, but you have to sit through the early ones to fully appreciate it all.

DS9 is my favorite, excluding Enterprise. DS9 probably has the least Roddenberry influence of them all. In fact, I've heard it said that they intentionally crammed it full of themes that Roddenberry never allowed. Such as major conflict between permanent characters, and technology having a bad side. There's war, genocide, betrayal, and officers disregarding protocols in even ways Kirk wouldn't have considered. It's got the finest writing and best characters of all the Trek shows. It's the show that made me a Trek fan to begin with.

DS9 is also the least popular Star Trek show amongst Trekkies, making me somewhat less nerdy by loving it. Maybe.

Now back on topic. In the 5 intervening years between this post and my reply, I'll say that DS9 was a favorite of mine after having finished the entire franchise.

Then when I finished it again I switched back to Voyager. Its pretty much solid from Episode 1 until the episode before the last one.

Voyager's series finale was that series' "Encounter at Far-Point Station". That is to say, awful and non-sensical. Seriously (Spoi... Fuck you, this is a 5 year late reply to a show that ended 14 years ago, if THIS post spoils the ending then GOOD, I'm glad), seriously though, Voyager gets back to the alpha quadrant inside an exploding Borg cube 'somehow'. Fuck you Hewitt-Wolfe, I know you wrote it, this has ANDROMEDA all over it.uuuuuuuugggggghhhh

Thank God I steered conversation back on track. Also I can't wait to read Memory of Light. Took upon myself the task of re-reading the entire series last january. Am now on The Gathering Storm. I wish I could tag T-6005 and PiB.

wheelchairman
03-25-2013, 03:15 PM
That's the spirit!

Even if meat is somehow completely unhealthy, I'd rather have 70-80 years in my life of eating the delicious animals than 100 years of munching on leaves.

And now you can never, ever criticize smokers.

WebDudette
03-25-2013, 06:01 PM
I've had a lot of very high quality chicken, pork, and steak, organically grown (like, directly from the local farm) and quite expensive. Unseasoned, it has little flavor. Need spices and/or sauces. There are plenty of other foods besides meat that also need seasoning or sauce, but there are quite a few dishes without spices or sauces I'd rather eat that an unseasoned piece of meat.

I suppose you're right, I rarely if ever eat meats without at least salt and/or pepper. Though, I think I could say the same thing for most meals. I eat lots of vegetarian and vegan dishes, but I always use at least some kind of oil, butter, salt, or pepper.

Llamas
03-25-2013, 06:17 PM
I suppose you're right, I rarely if ever eat meats without at least salt and/or pepper. Though, I think I could say the same thing for most meals. I eat lots of vegetarian and vegan dishes, but I always use at least some kind of oil, butter, salt, or pepper.

Right, I'm on dissing meat at all. I just don't understand the idea that a meal is lame/bland without it, since meat itself is pretty bland without seasoning and such. And yeah, most meals need some sort of seasoning, for sure.

Jakebert
03-25-2013, 08:13 PM
If you think steak needs salt or seasoning to be good you've never eaten a steak that's been cooked correctly. There is absolutely no debate on that either, sorry.

WebDudette
03-25-2013, 08:16 PM
I always pepper steak before grilling it, should I skip that the next time I have a good cut?

Jakebert
03-25-2013, 08:42 PM
I'd give it a shot.

Cooking steak right is difficult, to the point where I admit I have trouble doing it and fuck it up a lot. The biggest thing is to never ever cook it beyond medium, and even that's pushing it, because the more you cook it the more flavor it loses. This is also why thicker steaks are better because it's easier to not accidentally overcook them.

WebDudette
03-25-2013, 08:46 PM
I try for medium rare, a little closer to rare.

cool 2 hate 681
03-30-2013, 12:10 PM
I do eat meat mostly in a sandwich or a hamburger

wheelchairman
04-05-2013, 11:19 AM
Fuck you, cool2hate881.

cool 2 hate 681
04-05-2013, 12:38 PM
Fuck you, cool2hate881.

fuck you elitist asshole

wheelchairman
04-05-2013, 12:55 PM
fuck you elitist asshole

Ouch, I sure learned my lesson. Tell me, do you also put lettuce in said sandwiches/burgers? Any other fascinating things we can learn about you? I bet your status updates are amazing.