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cool 2 hate 681
08-29-2008, 10:28 AM
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/aug/29/uselections2008.johnmccain1?gusrc=rss&feed=worldnews

discuss

Little_Miss_1565
08-29-2008, 10:39 AM
Watching her speech right now. I can see her appeal. She seems awesome, but she's still anti-choice, pro-gun, anti-gay.

Her son enlisted in the army on Sept. 11th of last year. I think that's incredibly lame to tout that, considering the war we're currently fighting in Iraq has nothing to do with 9/11.

She totally looks like Tina Fey.

Sunny
08-29-2008, 10:44 AM
Watching her speech right now. I can see her appeal. She seems awesome, but she's still anti-choice, pro-gun, anti-gay.


and she supports teaching creationism alongside evolution.

a total winner, in other words. i can see her appeal too, but i can't look past the fuckery she calls her "values".

Slim Pickens The Bomb Rider
08-29-2008, 10:56 AM
I hope the americans will use their head when they have to choose a new president, too bad most of them can't. The world doesn't need another Bush.

Little_Miss_1565
08-29-2008, 11:19 AM
I hope the americans will use their head when they have to choose a new president, too bad most of them can't. The world doesn't need another Bush.


I agree with you that the world doesn't need another Bush, but how about a less moronic stance on stupid Americans considering none of them are on this forum?

hshduppsnt
08-29-2008, 11:31 AM
seems, as the democrats put it, a "hail mary" choice. they're totally hoping this will pull the clinton supporters but she really has no business being in the executive branch. Poor stance on important issues and a complete lack of anything on others. Well, she'll get her chance to prove she belongs on the ticket but I have a feeling those debates against Biden will be interesting. Have to say, I didn't see this pick coming... and it probably will prove disastrous for them :) (at least I hope it will)... she sounds like the typical right wing bullshit... just plays more into the "do you want four more years of bush" attack the democrats will have going.

arak0r
08-29-2008, 11:48 AM
:rolleyes:
how much you wanna bet the choice is in part to appeal to those women that are still disgruntled with hillary not being democratic candidate?

edit: hah, looked at the article, and its one of the first things mentioned, go figure

hshduppsnt
08-29-2008, 11:49 AM
^ I think that decision will backfire. The dems will probably vote for the Dems anyway and those who aren't, and are considering voting rep now that Clinton is out, probably were naturally more conservative and going to vote rep anyway so this choice doesn't change that. Essentially, I'm looking forward to this blowing up in their faces.

jacknife737
08-29-2008, 12:32 PM
To be honest I’m actually surprised they picked her, considering she’s a fucking scumbucket**. Despite her views on abortion/creationism/the war, ect, I still don’t think she’s going to play well with the GOP base, do they think southern Baptists are going to vote for a women? Plus i don't think this is going to gain them any dem voters, like hshduppsnt mentioned. She's nothing more than any the other GOP hack, just with a pretty face.

**Sarah Palin is under investigation
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/7/22/185110/659

http://community.adn.com/adn/node/127456

Jebus
08-29-2008, 12:37 PM
She was dubbed "Sarah Barracuda" by opponents when she was mayor of the town of Wasilla, Alaska, resurrecting a nickname she earned as a state champion high school basketball player, according to the Almanac of American Politics.
Obama Vs Palin free throw contest!

Slim Pickens The Bomb Rider
08-29-2008, 12:43 PM
I agree with you that the world doesn't need another Bush, but how about a less moronic stance on stupid Americans considering none of them are on this forum?

I'm not saying all of them are stupid. And I'm not talking about people on the forums. It's just that most of the americans are known as not so smart.
A few examples:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJuNgBkloFE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BWCPAXgrm2U
I'm concerned if these people have to vote...

Little_Miss_1565
08-29-2008, 12:52 PM
seems, as the democrats put it, a "hail mary" choice. they're totally hoping this will pull the clinton supporters but she really has no business being in the executive branch.

I totally see right through the GOP trickery plus her own invited comparisons to Hillary -- saying that getting one woman into one of the highest offices in the nation is the same as getting another one up there is reductionist and offensive, not to mention pretty fucking misogynist to boot. Palin and Clinton have nothing in common but two X chromosomes and motherhood.


I'm not saying all of them are stupid. And I'm not talking about people on the forums. It's just that most of the americans are known as not so smart.
A few examples:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJuNgBkloFE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BWCPAXgrm2U
I'm concerned if these people have to vote...

We all are, DexterB, but the fashionableness of American bashing is pretty much not okay.

hshduppsnt
08-29-2008, 12:54 PM
I totally see right through the GOP trickery plus her own invited comparisons to Hillary -- saying that getting one woman into one of the highest offices in the nation is the same as getting another one up there is reductionist and offensive, not to mention pretty fucking misogynist to boot. Palin and Clinton have nothing in common but two X chromosomes and motherhood.


lets just hope more people are smart enough to recognize that. I think they will.

HeadAroundU
08-29-2008, 12:56 PM
A woman? Is she ready to lead? :D

Rag Doll
08-29-2008, 01:06 PM
eugh. I had been saying all morning, "he's gonna pick a woman to try to steal clinton votes, he's gonna pick a woman...". the mens kept saying he never would. five minutes after the mens leaves the house, it gets leaked....and i was right! ha.

um. i hope people dont vote just because she's a woman. because she does NOT have women's interests at heart at all. plus, they wanna bash obama as inexperienced? please. she has even LESS experience than he does! and god, mccain is so old....if he died SHE would be president. and i am a feminist and i want a female president, but i want a capable female president. sigh.

Slim Pickens The Bomb Rider
08-29-2008, 01:18 PM
We all are, DexterB, but the fashionableness of American bashing is pretty much not okay.

You must find it annoying and I understand. Sorry but americans don't have a good reputation in this world, and it won't get any better... A great nation like America has to show the rest how things must be done, and they're not quite doing that. Starting a war with no reason, not cooperating in a change for a better climate, provoking russia by building a rocket shield in Poland,.... for possible attaks from Iran. Yeah right. It's time for a change, and now is the time for the americans to use their common sence

jacknife737
08-29-2008, 01:22 PM
So despite the fact she's a corrupt hack, this really was a poor choice for Mcain. He's no longer going to play the experience card, and the media is already calling him out on his "ploy for Hillary voters", does his campaign really think that dem women are going to vote for Palin simply for her gender, even though she is pro-choice?

nieh
08-29-2008, 01:35 PM
So despite the fact she's a corrupt hack, this really was a poor choice for Mcain. He's no longer going to play the experience card, and the media is already calling him out on his "ploy for Hillary voters", does his campaign really think that dem women are going to vote for Palin simply for her gender, even though she is pro-choice?

They had a group of people on the Daily Show (maybe Colbert?) the other night who were already saying they were voting for McCain over Obama despite being democrats who were backing Hillary. The fact that he's now appointed a woman his running mate means he's probably going to get at least a bit of a bump as a result, though not necessarily a very big one.

jacknife737
08-29-2008, 01:42 PM
They had a group of people on the Daily Show (maybe Colbert?) the other night who were already saying they were voting for McCain over Obama despite being democrats who were backing Hillary. The fact that he's now appointed a woman his running mate means he's probably going to get at least a bit of a bump as a result, though not necessarily a very big one.

Oh, i'm not going to deny that; but i still think the media is blowing this whole rift between Hillary supporters and Democratic party way out of proportion. The "PUMAS" (hillary supporters) held this "massive" rally at the convention, where like 60 people showed up. Their power of a voter block is being grossly overstated.

Sunny
08-29-2008, 01:42 PM
here's some scary shit:

http://www.hillaryis44.org/

http://guerillawomentn.blogspot.com/

i'm hoping these people are just a tiny, tiny minority and not representative of Hillary's supporters in general. auuugh :X

jacknife737
08-29-2008, 01:44 PM
here's some scary shit:

http://www.hillaryis44.org/

http://guerillawomentn.blogspot.com/

i'm hoping these people are just a tiny, tiny minority and not representative of Hillary's supporters in general. auuugh :X

Oh, i know, those people are batshit crazy. However, i think it was Colbert, a few weeks ago did a segment on them, apparently only like 10 regular posters make up 80% of the comments on that site.

Jakebert
08-29-2008, 01:58 PM
The whole controversy over this is retarded. Yeah, it's obviously a plot to get Clinton supporters, but lets not forget that Palin is very conservative and her stances on the issues are exactly what the conservative base SHOULD want to hear.

Yet, they still come out against her for seemingly no reason whatsoever. I used to disagree with calling the Republican party sexist as a whole, but I'm starting to shy away from that opinion based on their reaction to her nomination.

XYlophonetreeZ
08-29-2008, 02:03 PM
Nice, McCain. Way to insult women voters by thinking they'll vote for any random woman on any random ticket. Her youth and charm will be good for his campaign, but really what else is there to her? I knew he was gonna pick a strong social conservative and I thought he might pick a woman. Guess he got both.

I can't wait to see Biden wreck her shit in the debate.

Not Ozymandias
08-29-2008, 06:11 PM
I'd hit it.

Sunny
08-29-2008, 06:40 PM
I'd hit it.

http://vpilf.com/ ?

;p

Mota Boy
08-30-2008, 02:55 AM
Now, this pick has the potential to go any which-a-way. But for now... I like it. I like it a lot. It's an incendiary bomb right into the middle of the Hillary crowd. On one hand, Sarah Palin stands against everything in which they believe. on the other hand, Sarah Palin is a woman. That's it, that's all, that's all there is. I believe this has the potential to rip the PUMA PAC apart faster than you can say... shit, it's too late for me to be witty. Anyway, this, I believe, has the potential to lay them bare for what they are - the anti-Obama crowd is now faced with a bold acknowledgment that they're divorcing themselves from their values in a fight for gender. Palin - a laughably inexperienced woman brought in as a stand-in to woo Hillary supporters - is so far against anything Hillary stood for that to choose her is to admit that this is about sexism - that this is about wanting a woman - any woman - and displaying a willingness to betray all else in which you claim to believe.

I think some will rush headlong into the idea of Palin, but then... Oh, but then...

I think there's a real danger of a few of 'em suddenly seeing "misogyny" everywhere, as they did during the primary. I can just hear it now "Oh, experience wasn't an issue with Barack Obama, but now that it's a WOMAN..." but at the same time, the people that threw themselves behind the smart, tough, experienced candidate now suddenly have to wake up and go "Wait, this is the person representing my gender?" And (possibly) see it for a fraud.

Not just that, but add this to the mix - Hillary has worked her ass of for nigh a decade - if not longer - to get as far as she got. And then some governor, not halfway through her first term, from a state of 600,000 - a mayor of a town of under 10,000 - just suddenly gets thrust into the spotlight? Where's the battle? Where's the struggle? What has she done to deserve it, aside from holstering a vagina? (and let's be honest here - do you think McCain would have chosen a first-term male governor from a non-swing state? Possible, but... Just imagine how Hillary feels. Just imagine putting your life into this one enormous goal, failing spectacularly, and then watching this little thinks-she's-so-hot bitch step in and say "Ta-da! If you liked Hillary, you're going to love me! Gather round, my little ceiling cracks, and help your new leader break through!" Oh-ho-ho. If Obama had to goad Hillary into supporting him before this incident, I imagine now he'll be doing what he can to control her assault. And the Hillary crowd will have to choose between Hillary and their stated values, and this new chick.

The best part is that there's nothing the Obama campaign or the Democrats have to do. The media, as much as loathe their coverage of presidential campaigns, will pick this apart. How often do you have to hear in the news that John McCain picked a woman so you'd vote for him before you start to suspect that maybe he didn't pick her because he thought it was a woman's time?

Much like McCain's courtship of Palin - one meeting in February and one phone call a week ago - the GOP is going to experience the story arc of a Vegas marriage - a couple days drunk on possibility, patting themselves on the back and thinking HAHA! WE GOT A HOT CHICK!! OBAMA'S SUNK NOW!! before reality settles in and they realize that they're in it for the long haul with... well, we'll just have to see how a hockey mom hacks it on the national stage.

The Search Button
08-30-2008, 05:15 AM
MILF.

Yep, that's my contribution for American politics.

XYlophonetreeZ
08-30-2008, 10:49 AM
I think what it boils down to is this. McCain picked a running mate in the interest of getting elected. Obama picked a running mate in the interest of the next 4-8 years.

wheelchairman
08-30-2008, 12:07 PM
I would disagree, both McCain and Obama picked running mates that had qualities and appeal that they lacked. Pretty strategic on both their parts.

Sunny
08-30-2008, 12:31 PM
i don't think these choices are alike at all. McCain's move is purely a publicity stunt designed to appeal to disgruntled Hillary voters. Obama's move is strategic, obviously, but it's evident that the reasoning behind is deeper than "ha! take that!".

Biden brings actual relevant experience to the ticket. Palin brings her XX chromosomes.

wheelchairman
08-30-2008, 12:37 PM
Well the thing that the McCain lacked that the Obama campaign had was novelty, something new and different and groundbreaking. Bringing in a woman he now has that. From what I gather she's also deeply conservative (that's from what I gather, I haven't really bothered to look into it.*) Which may help motivate those conservatives who people were afraid might just stay on their couch instead of voting for McCain.

And Joe Biden? What does he have? Well he has the experience credential that Obama would need, he has the down to earth appeal to balance off the claims that Obama is an elitist celebrity. He's essentially the solution to the majority of Obama's criticisms.

The same goes for both of them. I don't see much of a difference.

* On that note I just got a letter saying that my vote was audited and that I am no longer entitled to that priviledge fucking ouch.

XYlophonetreeZ
08-30-2008, 12:39 PM
I would disagree, both McCain and Obama picked running mates that had qualities and appeal that they lacked. Pretty strategic on both their parts.
But it's not just about balancing qualities, it's also about general competence. How is Sarah Palin generally competent? I'd be perfectly comfortable with Joe Biden as president, but Palin? I just don't know. In terms of competence, McCain could have done a lot better. Like Sunny said, it's primarily a stunt and primarily related to gender. Of course it's strategic, but what good is she going to do if their ticket wins? Biden brings decades of foreign policy experience and a strong record of fighting for workers' rights. Palin has been mayor of a town of 8,000 people and barely been governor. At least with Biden there's reason to believe he will actually do a bit of good beyond this November. Biden could be a very valuable resource to Obama once in the Oval Office as an advisor and a consult. What does Palin know that McCain doesn't?

To me, Biden was a good pick all around, strategically and practically. He will help Obama in office. I think with him, the fact that he also balances his qualities out pretty well is just an added bonus whereas with Palin it's the entire reason she was picked.

wheelchairman
08-30-2008, 12:45 PM
Oh I'm not saying that Palin is as capable or more capable of holding office than Biden. I'm saying she's capable as a campaign strategy. At least the reasoning is. I of course agree that Biden is someone that I have more confidence in. That wasn't however what I was talking about.

Sunny
08-30-2008, 12:58 PM
well, what you were saying is that you don't see much of the difference between the two. my point is, the #1 difference here is that Biden is actually qualified and would be capable of doing the job he's running for. yes, his working class background alleviates some of the issues brought up by Obama's opponents, but at the end of the day, picking him doesn't look like a desperate, last resort move, because Biden is experienced and qualified, not just some random working class dude brought in to appeal to voters.

wheelchairman
08-30-2008, 05:01 PM
That's actually not what I'm saying. I clarified that in the post directly above yours.

Sunny
08-30-2008, 09:19 PM
i thought you meant "Obama's and McCain's reasoning behind their VP choices is the same, which is to supplement their tickets with qualities the candidates themselves lack". correct me if i'm wrong?

wheelchairman
08-30-2008, 10:11 PM
Yes and you responded with how it looks like to you... When I was talking about how the same reasoning can be applied to why both were chosen...

Mota Boy
08-31-2008, 01:53 AM
Similarities - both make up for a perceived weakness in each candidate.

Differences - Biden's strengths not only help out Obama's campaign, but also benefit a potential Obama administration.

I think that merely focusing on the similarities, to the exclusion of the glaring difference, is merely to be contrarian. Yes, one could certain make the case in both instances for a politically strategic motive in choosing the candidate, but the glaring difference is that, with Obama, you can also make a case for a more substantive choice (the perceived weaknesses of Obama were also perceived weaknesses of an Obama administration - were Obama to tap another outsider with little foreign policy experience it would steepen the learning curve in their first months/years in the White House), whereas with McCain, the opposing argument is incredibly weak. Palin brings with her a willingness to clean up Washington and the Party but... how the fuck does she plan on doing that as a vice president? It's one thing to fire a bunch of people as governor of Alaska, dealing with Washington D.C., from a position with as little leverage as the office of VP, well...

Plus, McCain's entire contact history with Palin is meeting her once in February, then calling her last Sunday to give her the job. Re-fucking-diculous.

Sunny
08-31-2008, 11:31 AM
Similarities - both make up for a perceived weakness in each candidate.

Differences - Biden's strengths not only help out Obama's campaign, but also benefit a potential Obama administration.

I think that merely focusing on the similarities, to the exclusion of the glaring difference, is merely to be contrarian. Yes, one could certain make the case in both instances for a politically strategic motive in choosing the candidate, but the glaring difference is that, with Obama, you can also make a case for a more substantive choice (the perceived weaknesses of Obama were also perceived weaknesses of an Obama administration - were Obama to tap another outsider with little foreign policy experience it would steepen the learning curve in their first months/years in the White House), whereas with McCain, the opposing argument is incredibly weak.

^ what i wanted to say, only better. <3

Jebus
08-31-2008, 11:54 PM
oshi...Fuck my values. I'm voting republican.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v255/Savemejebus/1220247504949.jpg

arak0r
09-01-2008, 01:24 AM
anyone else hearing some kind of crazy shit involving her last child she had (the one with downs) and her oldest daughter? some kind of creepy shit there. ie, she was supposedly 7 months pregnant
http://media.adn.com/smedia/2008/03/09/01/307-3504041.standalone.prod_affiliate.7.jpg
in this picture here.

at teh same time her daughter was out of school for several months with "mono" and the doctor attending the birth of the child isnt with that hospital any longer, and in fact tehres no record at all of the child there.. i mean maybe its just some crazy coincidences but i dunno, she certainly doesnt look pregnant there (thats from supertuesday, she had the kid shortly after)

arak0r
09-01-2008, 01:42 AM
http://img364.imageshack.us/img364/4628/sarahpalinla4.png

then there is this. lawl

F@ BANKZ
09-01-2008, 04:35 AM
Margret Thatcher, who lived off four hours sleep a day, had extreme difficulty in merely attaining her seat in parliament because she was the mother of two children. Although I don't consider this the most important of all issues, five children, one of which has Down's-Syndrome are going to have to either engulf the vice-president's time or be neglected by their mother.

coke_a_holic
09-01-2008, 01:15 PM
http://www.hotchickswithdouchebags.com/2008/08/honorary-hot-chick-with-douchebag-of.html

Honorary Hot Chick with Douchebag of the Month: McCain/Palin


Not since the Bush/Quayle pairing of 1988 have a douche and a hot chick run for office together.

For crotchety oldbag whining, for telling me to get off his lawn, and for picking a former beauty queen as his #2, John McCain earns this month's honorary HCwDB of the Month.

Politicalbags aren't my favorite subject around here, mainly because so few of them actually snag attractive hotties.

Proving the adage that Washington really is Hollywood for ugly people, as well as for conceptually douching it up rather than featuring physical markers of douchebaggery, Politicalbags tend to bore me.

But for today's idiotic selection, lets give John McCain a hearty douche of the month award. You've earned it, old wrinkly guy. Not to mention dumping your first wife for a 24 year old beer heiress. Your history of wonky douchitude is a long and inglorious one, Keating #5.

And yes, Sarah Palin, you are the milfy librarian hott that revs my motorboat even at your advanced age. And while my lust for your sharp librarian looks may be a sexist invalidation of all that you've accomplished professionally, I really don't have to worry. Because you haven't really accomplished anything professionally.

I love everything.

jacknife737
09-01-2008, 01:17 PM
I suspect that she's a secret Muslim.

SaiKYoU
09-01-2008, 01:34 PM
so her 17 year old daughter is pregnant...

they gotta punch new holes in the Bible belt...

Llamas
09-01-2008, 01:35 PM
http://www.hotchickswithdouchebags.com/2008/08/honorary-hot-chick-with-douchebag-of.html

Honorary Hot Chick with Douchebag of the Month: McCain/Palin



I love everything.

God, that was awesome.

jacknife737
09-01-2008, 02:13 PM
so her 17 year old daughter is pregnant...

An article, if anyone is interested. Can't wait to see her explain this to the social cons from the heartland.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/02/us/politics/02PALINDAY.html?_r=1&hp&oref=slogin

Jakebert
09-01-2008, 05:35 PM
The father is obviously John Edwards.

Little_Miss_1565
09-01-2008, 11:58 PM
This NY Times article (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/02/us/politics/02vetting.html?pagewanted=2&_r=1&em) mentions that Palin was, for a couple years, a member of the Alaskan Independence Party. A party that, in all seriousness, occasionally pushes for a secession vote.

It's also been suggested among all the rumors and innuendo that McCain is pissed the party wouldn't let him name Joe Lieberman as his runningmate and is intentionally trying to torpedo the party from the inside.

jacknife737
09-02-2008, 12:26 AM
It's also been suggested among all the rumors and innuendo that McCain is pissed the party wouldn't let him name Joe Lieberman as his runningmate and is intentionally trying to torpedo the party from the inside.

Nothing would make me happier. It's also been suggested on a couple more liberal leaning blogs (ie Kos) that Palin may even drop out, but i highly doubt it. Still, that Alaskan Independence Party thing is just going to keep getting bigger, same with the alleged corruption charges.

Little_Miss_1565
09-02-2008, 12:38 AM
Nothing would make me happier. It's also been suggested on a couple more liberal leaning blogs (ie Kos) that Palin may even drop out, but i highly doubt it. Still, that Alaskan Independence Party thing is just going to keep getting bigger, same with the alleged corruption charges.

First, saying Kos is liberal leaning is like saying the sky on a clear day tends to be blue. ;)

I'm confused on the corruption charges, actually. She fired someone for not firing someone who was related to them by marriage, right?

Mota Boy
09-02-2008, 12:50 AM
Oh, I'd say there's a good possibility she will. I mean, can you imagine what this next week is going to do to her family? Her daughter is going to be on the fucking cover of every grocery-aisle magazine next week. Who knows how the base will react - the more this drags out, you know there is a certain percentage conservatives that think it would be best for her to, well, be focused on her family. And you know the party elites have to be embarrassed as all get-out to be forced to pretend this was a wise choice, a good decision for the country, as opposed to a crude and rather blatant attempt to woo the cuntry.

The best part - if Palin drops out, McCain will have to pick someone at least as conservative, or else the evangelicals, 'specially the ones that finally coughed up all that dinero, are going to be incensed and stay home. So the available pool of good talent is going to be even smaller than it was (just about zero) during McCain's previous selection of talent.

Of course, there are also ways in which this could work out for her - it depends on what the narrative will be. But the latest round of shit coming out - she headed up Ted Steven's PAC, more troopergate and abuse of power, she was before the Bridge to Nowhere before she was against it, she was a member of the fucking Alaska Independence Party (?), her own mother-in-law is talking of voting against her (as if the Palin Thanksgiving dinner wasn't going to be awkward enough), she was all for Pat Buchanan and against Israel (and McCain's been heavy on a-courtin' the Jews).

Christ, this is too good. This is too fucking good. I mean, I could totally see the Republican Party attempting to use jujitsu on this like they usually do (if the media narrative becomes "can the spunky hockey mom do it?" we're in trouble), but this is a giant clusterfuck and I fucking love it. And it's only been one weekend! There's too much shit on her to report at once - the field of news is more fertile than even the Palin women.

I swear though, once the Republicans try to get righteously indignant and start talking about "sexism" and play that card ten times stronger than they ever claimed Barack played the race card, I may have to choke a bitch, the bitch in this case being Karl Rove.

jacknife737
09-02-2008, 12:53 AM
I'm confused on the corruption charges, actually. She fired someone for not firing someone who was related to them by marriage, right?

That's the gist of it. Palin had a Public Safety Commissioner fired. The Commissioner claims he was dismissed since he failed to fire Palinís former brother in law, a State Trooper (who is having a custody battle with Palinís sister). The most interesting thing is that the results of the investigation will be due out just prior to the election.

Edit: Wow, Wikipedia even has an article on it http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alaska_Public_Safety_Commissioner_dismissal

Mota Boy
09-02-2008, 12:59 AM
Corruption - Palin's sister was going through a nasty divorce. She hired a private detective to dig up shit on the man and presented it to the Director of Health and Safety (or something) and said he should fire the cop. The cop wasn't fired, and soon he found himself sacked, then replaced with someone so incompetent they resigned after two weeks on the job.

Palin claimed that she had nothing to do with it. Then it came out that her husband and half a dozen aides called the man a total of two dozen times to pressure him to fire the cop. He even recorded some of the calls. Palin then claimed that they may have done so, but none of it was done with her knowledge. In a couple days, the fired dude is going to testify that Palin spoke with him personally, pressuring to fire her brother-in law.

I mean really, the only downside I see to this is that I'll be too busy working for a foregone conclusion to read the right's increasingly-hilarious case for this woman. Just yesterday, Cindy McCain claimed that Palin was experienced because she'd been on the PTA and lived close to Russia. It's like the Republican party agreed that it was fucked anyway and should instead give America the gift of high-quality satire.

Little_Miss_1565
09-02-2008, 01:03 AM
I swear though, once the Republicans try to get righteously indignant and start talking about "sexism" and play that card ten times stronger than they ever claimed Barack played the race card, I may have to choke a bitch, the bitch in this case being Karl Rove.

As much as I'm in Bam's corner for the election, Hillary was subjected to truly outrageous (and not in the Jem way) sexism in her run. I still don't think she's the right candidate and I think Barack would have clinched the nomination regardless. But Rove is the one who's basically responsible for the ages-long smear campaign on her in Washington that has resulted in everyone being so polarized against her and also made her not the right candidate for me. Though not all of the sexism towards Hillary was from the Republicans (and some of the nastiest was from other Democrats), it would be not only ridiculous but fucking unbelievable for any of the GOP to try and claim sexism now.

But, the comments bodysnarking on her and her daughter trying to ascertain bump status, etc. are crass and sexist.

Big ups to Bam for taking the high road and telling Kos et all to suck it. If it weren't a historic election for the personnel, it would be for that. I never would have thought a classy presidential race were possible less than 5 years after the Kerry swift-boating.

EDIT: I'm really upset the Daily Show wasn't on tonight and I won't miss tomorrow night for the world.

EDIT 2: Re: Pledge of Allegiance: "If it was good enough for our founding fathers, it's good enough for us." (http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/9/1/13152/11620/160/581558) True story, once I was at a school board meeting and some old pepaw got up to say that classes in a student's native language needed to be stopped because "If English was good enough for Jesus, it's good enough for them."

Mota Boy
09-02-2008, 01:20 AM
Though not all of the sexism towards Hillary was from the Republicans (and some of the nastiest was from other Democrats), it would be not only ridiculous but fucking unbelievable for any of the GOP to try and claim sexism now.Almost as ridiculous and fucking unbelievable as to run Obama ads laced with images of the Antichrist and then to play coy about it and accuse other people of overreacting when called out on it? How about dressing up people in shirts with "INS" emblazoned on them, arming them with cameras and sending them out to heavily Hispanic districts to take pictures of people going to the polls on election day? How about calling up black neighborhoods to inform them that people with outstanding warrants and parking tickets will be arrested if they show up to the polling place?

It's going to come. Were I Rove, I'd use the craziest of the former HRC supporters as surrogates to play it up - former Democrats that have gone so far around the bend they can only see the world through the prism of sexism in the media. Honestly, PUMAs are the new 9/11 Truthers. There certainly may have been sexism in the media during the primaries (I was out of the country and not paying too much attention to the news), but I doubt it was as widespread as claimed. What with the billions of words being written about this campaign every day, it's very, very easy to pick out the ones that can appear sexist and focus on those, to the point you start to see sexism everywhere, all the time, and see the world as dominated by it, particularly in the day of the internet when you can have thousands of people discovering and passing on and aggregating the most egregious instances, ignoring the vast majority of the clean coverage because that's not the story. In my opinion, some HRC supporters got so caught up in this narrative that... well, we've lost 'em. By "we" I don't mean "the Democratic Party", I mean "rational human beings". It's scary - it's really, really scary - because it's not something that depends on intelligence or being secluded from outside information but rather the opposite, it just depends on falling into one of these internet networks that cherry-pick news and interpret it within this bubble, within this common filter, that choose their own explanations for events and piece together their own narratives from the near-limitless supply of information out there and come to set these certain fundamental assumptions about the nature of the world into stone...

But anyway, it'll be really, really fucking interesting to see what happens if/when Hillary starts campaigning for Barack and going up against her former backers.

Little_Miss_1565
09-02-2008, 09:41 AM
Yes, the PUMAs are insane, but their retardation and overreaction doesn't change the fact that yes, there really was a lot of sexism. And yes, there has been a lot of racism involved too but that's standard GOP fare. Remember McCain's black child? Of course they're playing just as dirty now--McCain's principles, if present, are extremely questionable. So it's not that I'm overlooking the incredible feats of racism committed against Barack in this campaign, it's just that I expected them because the GOP is the most fucked up set of individuals ever. And this is coming from someone who is a fiscal conservative, states-rights type who will never vote Republican because of the people involved.

Mota Boy
09-02-2008, 11:42 AM
I never said anything about racism directed against Obama in the media. Hell, I think much of that is overblown too. There are much larger problems with the media than gender or racial bias, and it's those issues that people should be aware of. I honestly think discrimination is a red herring for what really goes on. Just an example - during the primary run, Hillary was cast as the candidate of "experience" while Obama was the rookie. Thus, any perceived gaffe or mistake that he made was played up in the media to further this narrative, while Hillary's mistakes were ignored because they didn't fit the story.

Don't get me wrong - there are narratives that "unfairly" help Obama or hurt McCain too, but that's just the first one that leaps to mind.

Mota Boy
09-02-2008, 11:52 AM
Oh, and I know Barry said it's totally off-limits, but for the latest "What the fuck?" twist in the tale of Trig Palin...

[First, a cast of characters.

Sarah Palin - running for VP
Bristol Palin - her daughter
Levi - Bristol's boyfriend
Trig Palin - baby, supposed Sarah Palin's, but rumored to be Bristols]

Levi's sister's MySpace (http://suchandrika.wordpress.com/2008/09/02/archive-of-sarah-bristol-trig-palin-myspace-pictures/) apparently, well... fucking refers to Trig as part of her family, and Sarah Palin as the "mother in law". The tabloids are eating this up.

Andy
09-02-2008, 12:58 PM
I'm pretty hilariously ignorant about American politics, but Palin's pregnant daughter is pretty hot.

jacknife737
09-02-2008, 01:07 PM
Levi's sister's MySpace (http://suchandrika.wordpress.com/2008/09/02/archive-of-sarah-bristol-trig-palin-myspace-pictures/) apparently, well... fucking refers to Trig as part of her family, and Sarah Palin as the "mother in law". The tabloids are eating this up.

Goddamn this is getting entertaining. They should have their own reality tv series.

Llamas
09-02-2008, 02:34 PM
I'm currently at a point of being annoyed by a lot of extreme liberals. With the RNC going on a couple miles from where I live, and on the same block as where I work, things have been hectic, sure. But the way the protesters acted yesterday... holy shit. Republicans got off their buses, headed toward the Xcel center, and got sprayed in the eyes with toxins. Seriously?? I support the anti-war march going through St. Paul this week, but what is wrong with people? Trying to stop the convention from happening by hurting people? My God.

Anyway, McCain messed up big time. I mean, the extreme liberals were having a really hard time digging up dirt on him. Most of the dirt they found was pretty uninteresting... unlike the dirt the extreme conservatives found on Obama. But then Palin steps up, and in 3 days there's more dirt about her than on Obama. She's a train wreck.

Rag Doll
09-02-2008, 02:38 PM
Anyway, McCain messed up big time. I mean, the extreme liberals were having a really hard time digging up dirt on him.

Seriously? Like....seriously?

Llamas
09-02-2008, 02:40 PM
Seriously? Like....seriously?

The fact that I'm an Obama supporter, and have heard about 10x as much crap about him than about the person I'm "against" says to me it's been harder. Well, to dig up valid stuff, anyway.

Jakebert
09-02-2008, 03:40 PM
Today I heard Rush Limbaugh say that liberals don't respect strong, independent women.

He'snot even trying to not sound like a hypocrite anymore.

Mota Boy
09-02-2008, 05:10 PM
So anyway... (http://thepage.time.com/2008/09/02/mccain-aide-obama-camp-being-sexist-in-palin-attacks/)

Little_Miss_1565
09-02-2008, 06:04 PM
Will someone please figure out what the GOP is taking and make that shit illegal?

sKratch
09-02-2008, 07:56 PM
I didn't know until I think a few years ago what the fuck the GOP was ;o

Llamas
09-02-2008, 10:36 PM
haha wow, that didn't take long...

wheelchairman
09-02-2008, 11:51 PM
I didn't know until I think a few years ago what the fuck the GOP was ;o

Me neither. :( I finally looked it up on wikipedia I think at some point.

arak0r
09-03-2008, 01:03 AM
grand old partay

Mota Boy
09-03-2008, 01:13 AM
I know. :( The riot police really need to just start breaking some kneecaps and shit.

America needs a Tiananmen sometime soon, these kids are a fucking scourge.Oh I know - it seems like every day there's another violent mob out on the street corner in cities and towns all across America, rather than something like this happening at sporadic, very rare occasiona at specific, symbolic events, much like it does everywhere else in the world.

Jebus
09-03-2008, 01:42 AM
Oh god. I want to punch this guy (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1r8rnlwRubw)so bad.

randman21
09-03-2008, 03:17 AM
Oh god. I want to punch this guy (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1r8rnlwRubw)so bad.

Who, Tucker Bounds? I just want to cuddle him, stroke his head, and let him know everything will be alright. That was rough.

SaiKYoU
09-03-2008, 04:06 AM
Oh god. I want to punch this guy (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1r8rnlwRubw)so bad.

i thought he was a gonna start crying...

Little_Miss_1565
09-03-2008, 09:17 AM
Sarah Palin doesn't like the Jews or anyone that doesn't accept Jesus. (http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/9/3/10452/19058/669/584124)

There goes Florida.

Vera
09-03-2008, 09:18 AM
http://syndicated.livejournal.com/sinfestfeed/425904.html

Sinfest ftw.

IamSam
09-03-2008, 02:30 PM
Oh god. I want to punch this guy (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1r8rnlwRubw)so bad.

Haha...'don't belittle her' after he just belittles Obama...funny.

SaiKYoU
09-03-2008, 03:55 PM
Sarah Palin doesn't like the Jews or anyone that doesn't accept Jesus. (http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/9/3/10452/19058/669/584124)

There goes Florida.

wow, I laughed a lot...

at least the KKK vote is secured...

XYlophonetreeZ
09-03-2008, 05:32 PM
Oh god. I want to punch this guy (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1r8rnlwRubw)so bad.
I'm not a Palin apologist, but that reporter was blatantly biased. As for whoever said he belittled Obama, that's his job. He works for the McCain campaign. The reporter's job is to be neutral and get answers. The guy looked like a huge ass during that interview for sure, but she was trying hard to make him look like one and that's not her job.

randman21
09-03-2008, 06:09 PM
I'm not a Palin apologist, but that reporter was blatantly biased. As for whoever said he belittled Obama, that's his job. He works for the McCain campaign. The reporter's job is to be neutral and get answers. The guy looked like a huge ass during that interview for sure, but she was trying hard to make him look like one and that's not her job.

While she was obviously biased, I don't think she was trying to make him look like an ass. She just asked him the easiest question ever (probably in response to "Obama has never made am important decision." It did strike me a tad unprofessional, but you can so tell she was having fun with this guy.

Jebus
09-03-2008, 06:23 PM
I'm not a Palin apologist, but that reporter was blatantly biased. As for whoever said he belittled Obama, that's his job. He works for the McCain campaign. The reporter's job is to be neutral and get answers. The guy looked like a huge ass during that interview for sure, but she was trying hard to make him look like one and that's not her job.
I just found the full interview (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tqKYO7jzqBg). She was being a huge ass at the beginning. She kept on implying that Palin was being a bad mother for putting her pregnant daughter in the spotlight by accepting the VP position. That was probably the reason why Mccain didn't want to the interview.

I think her foreign policy question was pretty fair though. Yes, the question didn't favor Palin at all, but if all questions were completely neutral the only thing we would know about the candidates is what the candidates themselves are telling us, which would be full of bull. He danced around her original foreign policy experience question for half the interview so she seemed pretty damn peeved about it by the end. She even agreed Obama didn't have much foreign policy experience compared to Mccain, but he kept on refusing to answer the question directly.

EDIT: wrong link
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tqKYO7jzqBg

IamSam
09-03-2008, 07:18 PM
As for whoever said he belittled Obama, that's his job. He works for the McCain campaign. The reporter's job is to be neutral and get answers.

But that's the thing...she wasn't being biased with that question. She wanted him to answer to her record seeing that he was blasting Obama.

Thanks for that, Jebus.

Llamas
09-03-2008, 07:54 PM
I know. :( The riot police really need to just start breaking some kneecaps and shit.

America needs a Tiananmen sometime soon, these kids are a fucking scourge.

All that will do is cause people to protest even more intensely. These aren't the kinds of people who say "oh man, if I protest, the police will hurt me... okay I'll just stay home." People with the anger to spray people in the face with urine and destroy transportation are just going to rebel more.

It just never ceases to sadden me when people behave like this. I know it happens at huge events all over the world, but it's obviously more striking when it's happening in your neighborhood. I just don't understand what they think they're accomplishing.

So anyway, Palin is FINALLY in St. Paul... I'm actually a little excited to hear her speak tonight in the midst of all the controversy that's stirred up since Friday. It better be good. ;)

Mota Boy
09-03-2008, 09:49 PM
I'm not a Palin apologist, but that reporter was blatantly biased. As for whoever said he belittled Obama, that's his job. He works for the McCain campaign. The reporter's job is to be neutral and get answers. The guy looked like a huge ass during that interview for sure, but she was trying hard to make him look like one and that's not her job.Depends upon the type of reporter and the role the reporter is playing. If it's an investigative journalist, or a journalist interviewing someone, the journalist should always be biased against the person they're interviewing.

Little_Miss_1565
09-03-2008, 10:10 PM
I just want to post this up here, because if I hear Palin give hot librarians named Sarah a bad name again with the same old lie about Obama not having a single piece of legislation to his name, I might choke somebody.

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/2/21/164117/783/290/461422

Llamas
09-04-2008, 01:25 AM
Not that it's related, but I just realized her kids' names are Trig, Track, and Bristol. WTF??? Willow and Piper are better... but three out of five... just what?

IamSam
09-04-2008, 09:40 AM
Not that it's related, but I just realized her kids' names are Trig, Track, and Bristol. WTF???

She must be a NASCAR fan

jacknife737
09-04-2008, 11:38 AM
I know. :( The riot police really need to just start breaking some kneecaps and shit.

America needs a Tiananmen sometime soon, these kids are a fucking scourge.

Oh, I assure you that they are making up for it by raiding/detaining hundreds of innocent people.

http://www.democracynow.org/2008/9/1/st_paul_police_conduct_mass_pre

http://www.democracynow.org/2008/9/1/st_paul_police_conduct_mass_pre

http://www.democracynow.org/2008/9/4/i_witness_video_collective_forced_out (A group whos work during the last GOP convention resulted in charges getting thrown out for hundreds of people because they exposed fraudulent police statements, pretty convienent eh?)

http://www.democracynow.org/2008/9/4/hundreds_of_jailed_protesters_held_for

http://www.democracynow.org/blog/2008/9/3/call_to_action_on_behalf_of_dn_journalists_facing_ charges_for_reporting_on_the_republican_national_c onvention


*Credit to Baseball from punknews.org for providing the links.

JohnnyNemesis
09-04-2008, 06:34 PM
how much you wanna bet the choice is in part to appeal to those women that are still disgruntled with hillary not being democratic candidate?

I know I'm late, but...that...kinda...went without saying. How much you wanna bet the sky is gonna be blue tomorrow morn'?


I'd hit it.

24 posts in before this? Took entirely too long.

It's funny, Sarah Palin is like...legit hot. Not the kinda "ugly but in the context of her position passes for hot" that one might expect.

Anyway, it's kinda funny that, even after that "energizing speech", considering the status of the Republican party at this point anything but a "goddamn train wreck" is ridiculous. I've never seen such a transparent party in my lifetime.

(oh, and major lolz for Rudy Giuliani)

sKratch
09-04-2008, 07:10 PM
Oh, I assure you that they are making up for it by raiding/detaining hundreds of innocent people.

http://www.democracynow.org/2008/9/1/st_paul_police_conduct_mass_pre

http://www.democracynow.org/2008/9/1/st_paul_police_conduct_mass_pre

http://www.democracynow.org/2008/9/4/i_witness_video_collective_forced_out (A group whos work during the last GOP convention resulted in charges getting thrown out for hundreds of people because they exposed fraudulent police statements, pretty convienent eh?)

http://www.democracynow.org/2008/9/4/hundreds_of_jailed_protesters_held_for

http://www.democracynow.org/blog/2008/9/3/call_to_action_on_behalf_of_dn_journalists_facing_ charges_for_reporting_on_the_republican_national_c onvention


*Credit to Baseball from punknews.org for providing the links.

omgz i maed thread about this!

randman21
09-04-2008, 07:44 PM
How can it possibly have been just 6 days since he picked her? They've already dug up months and months of dirt about her in less than a week? Seriously, I refuse to believe it. :confused:

Hypno Toad
09-04-2008, 10:31 PM
and she supports teaching creationism alongside evolution.


Faith vs Heavy evidense.

Religion has been completely obsolete since scientific method was discovered. If people want to learn about religion, they should stick to their own school.

---------------

She is obviously trying to play both sides. The problem with being heavily conservative is you are living a lie most of your life (*Cough Mark Foley). She supports sex ed by abstinence. Which is fundamentally moronic, you know why? Because her daughter got knocked up. Most likely because she didn't know the first thing about sex, tell your BF to put on a fk'ing condom. I am just waiting for her son to announce he is gay, and her other daughter to become a geneticist.

coke_a_holic
09-05-2008, 12:07 AM
People who give a shit about other people's religions have no love. Atheism is roughly as much shit as any other religion, and getting up in people's faces about it makes you a douchebag.

Sarah Palin is unfit and unable to lead this country. When John McCain dies and she is put in charge, shit is going down, and I don't think I can bare to watch it.

What fucking ridiculous idea will they come up with next?

HornyPope
09-05-2008, 02:09 AM
I know I'm late, but...that...kinda...went without saying. How much you wanna bet the sky is gonna be blue tomorrow morn'?



24 posts in before this? Took entirely too long.

It's funny, Sarah Palin is like...legit hot. Not the kinda "ugly but in the context of her position passes for hot" that one might expect.

Anyway, it's kinda funny that, even after that "energizing speech", considering the status of the Republican party at this point anything but a "goddamn train wreck" is ridiculous. I've never seen such a transparent party in my lifetime.

(oh, and major lolz for Rudy Giuliani)

The sky could be also grey tomorrow if there are like really a lot of clouds.

SaiKYoU
09-05-2008, 04:06 AM
so everybody expects McCain to die in the next 4 years??!

0r4ng3
09-05-2008, 06:21 AM
I still think he died somewhere between 2000 and today, and the McCain we see on TV is an evil robot clone. With some programming issues, of course.

nieh
09-05-2008, 08:49 AM
So what you're saying is we got stuck with McCain Chrome Beta?

Sunny
09-05-2008, 09:07 AM
Faith vs Heavy evidense.

Religion has been completely obsolete since scientific method was discovered.


ya know, you were making good points, but then you had to bring out the douche. not cool.

KHWHD
09-05-2008, 10:09 AM
Faith vs Heavy evidense.

Religion has been completely obsolete since scientific method was discovered. If people want to learn about religion, they should stick to their own school.

---------------

She is obviously trying to play both sides. The problem with being heavily conservative is you are living a lie most of your life (*Cough Mark Foley). She supports sex ed by abstinence. Which is fundamentally moronic, you know why? Because her daughter got knocked up. Most likely because she didn't know the first thing about sex, tell your BF to put on a fk'ing condom. I am just waiting for her son to announce he is gay, and her other daughter to become a geneticist.

I just wondered if you go by a thesaurus every time you reply to a thread cause I don't know ANYONE that types like this everytime they reply. Unless of course you're my ex and think they're all intelligent and stuff. :rolleyes:

nieh
09-05-2008, 10:36 AM
I don't see why he would need a thesaurus to type anything like that.

Sunny
09-05-2008, 11:18 AM
I just wondered if you go by a thesaurus every time you reply to a thread cause I don't know ANYONE that types like this everytime they reply. Unless of course you're my ex and think they're all intelligent and stuff. :rolleyes:

i don't see a single word in his reply that would be considered out of the ordinary.

also, is it really necessary to mention your ex in just about every other post you make?

nieh
09-05-2008, 11:46 AM
I kind of like mentioning your ex in every other post I make.

p.s. clitoris.

Sunny
09-05-2008, 11:52 AM
that's it, mister. i've HAD it with you.

*glares*

KHWHD
09-05-2008, 12:11 PM
i don't see a single word in his reply that would be considered out of the ordinary.

also, is it really necessary to mention your ex in just about every other post you make?

If it wasn't, I would mention him would I? Didn't say out of the ordinary did I? Jeez. :rolleyes:

KHWHD
09-05-2008, 12:13 PM
I don't see why he would need a thesaurus to type anything like that.

Apparently you haven't read any of his other replies or threads he's started have you?

nieh
09-05-2008, 12:19 PM
that's it, mister. i've HAD it with you.

*glares*
*scared*

Apparently you haven't read any of his other replies or threads he's started have you?

Apparently not.

Sunny
09-05-2008, 12:35 PM
well, i have, and the most intimidating words he's used to date are "vendetta" and "antagonist". unless, of course, "shambling" and "autonomy" count...

...



Didn't say out of the ordinary did I? Jeez. :rolleyes:

you didn't use that exact phrase, but you said one would need a thesaurus to write such a post... which, correct me if i'm wrong, implies that he used obscure or uncommon words.

jacknife737
09-05-2008, 12:48 PM
omgz i maed thread about this!

Oh, so you did. Sorry, i guess i didn't realize it at the time...

IamSam
09-05-2008, 03:14 PM
Watching the opening ceremonies of the RNC last night, I kept expecting to hear:

"Please stand for the convocation, the National Anthem, the Pledge of Allegiance, and the ceremonial killing of the bull by NRA president John Sigler and his .44 Magnum."

Hypno Toad
09-05-2008, 07:33 PM
ya know, you were making good points, but then you had to bring out the douche. not cool.

Personality trait :D

I said what I meant, I am not going to dumb it down.

Sunny
09-05-2008, 07:38 PM
i don't want you to dumb it down, quite the opposite. in fact, i believe saying "religion is obsolete" is rather simplistic... if not ignorant.

Hypno Toad
09-05-2008, 07:54 PM
To avoid getting into a religious argument, lemme leave it at this:

Creationism has no credible evidence to back it up what so ever. Evolution on the other hand has heavy concrete evidence. Schools should be teaching fact, not opinions. Creationism is a matter of faith and opinion, but due to the fact that it is something that has yet to be proven, it should not be taught to kids that are atheist, or of other beliefs. You are doing nothing but wasting time and confusing kids when you teach them both sides of the story. A child that is religious can choose to disregard evolution information, but an atheist who has yet to learn about evolution should not have two contradictory ideas plugged into his head at the same time.

If parents want their kids to learn stuff that is based on faith, and not fact; that is what religious schools are for.

The only reason Sarah Palin supports both is because she wants both the votes, not because it what she stands for.

Sunny
09-05-2008, 07:58 PM
oh, i'm 100% with you on that. i find creationism to be a load of shit, and the concept of it being taught alongside evolution in secular schools scares me to no end. i believe in separation of church and state; not only in regards to education, but also reproductive rights and gay rights and whatever else.

the part of your post i take issue with is "religion is obsolete", because i find that to be a pretty narrow-minded point of view.

Hypno Toad
09-05-2008, 08:03 PM
What I meant by that is that religion used to be the explanations for life before people had the means and abilities to figure out the secrets of the universe on their own. Now that science and technology is so far advanced, a lot of the things that were mysterious and unexplainable before, are now very apparent and simple.

I find it very irrational that people will disregard hard evidence, for the teachings/thruthiness of a 2000 year old book.

Jakebert
09-05-2008, 08:51 PM
Personally, I believe that when it comes to religion there is no such thing as a right answer or a wrong answer, but that there is only person....ALL HAIL THE HYPNOTOAD.

Smash_Returns
09-05-2008, 11:15 PM
Personally, I believe that when it comes to religion there is no such thing as a right answer or a wrong answer, but that there is only person....ALL HAIL THE HYPNOTOAD.

Have you ever watched the whole episode "Everybody Loves Hypnotoad"?

Quite literally the biggest waste of 23 minutes ever. The fake commercials were great, though.

Llamas
09-05-2008, 11:53 PM
People who give a shit about other people's religions have no love. Atheism is roughly as much shit as any other religion, and getting up in people's faces about it makes you a douchebag.

I don't fully agree with this. I do believe that people who are upfront about being atheist are douches, because they are not trying to help anyone by doing so- they are usually trying to be assholes. However, people who are upfront Christians have leeway. I say this because I understand the viewpoint- you're a Christian, you're going to be saved and go to Heaven. Well, you want the people you care about to do also be saved and go to Heaven. I have heard the comparison, "If you saw your loved ones walking straight toward the edge of a cliff, wouldn't you try to stop them?" There is compassion and love in such an idea. However, when people I don't know and will never see again start asking me if I'm saved, throw bible verses at me, or tell me why I'm going to hell, there is absolutely no excuse for it. Those people aren't trying to help people- they are just pushing others so they feel better about themselves and maybe God will love them more.


Creationism has no credible evidence to back it up what so ever. Evolution on the other hand has heavy concrete evidence. Schools should be teaching fact, not opinions. Creationism is a matter of faith and opinion, but due to the fact that it is something that has yet to be proven, it should not be taught to kids that are atheist, or of other beliefs. You are doing nothing but wasting time and confusing kids when you teach them both sides of the story. A child that is religious can choose to disregard evolution information, but an atheist who has yet to learn about evolution should not have two contradictory ideas plugged into his head at the same time.
Creationism and Evolution are not necessarily exclusive. There are many people who believe in both, and it is possible. Creationism can be considered (like most of the bible) full of metaphors, and just because lots of idiots think that, "The Earth was created in seven days" literally means it took a week. They forget the fact that a day back then wasn't what we refer to as a day, because our calendar didn't exist then. People lived to be hundreds of years old... so who's to say that a day and a year were what we call them now? A lot of people consider creationism to be the spiritual explanation for evolution.

That said, creationism should NOT be taught in schools, just as all other creation beliefs are not. The facts of evolution (and much of evolution regarding things that creationism supposedly refutes is not full of concrete evidence, but mostly scientific speculation and theory) should be taught. If Creation beliefs are to be taught, they should all be taught in religious studies classes.


The only reason Sarah Palin supports both is because she wants both the votes, not because it what she stands for.
Supports both of what? Both Creationism and evolution? That's not necessarily true.

Hypno Toad
09-06-2008, 12:26 AM
Supports both of what? Both Creationism and evolution? That's not necessarily true.

That's what I was told. Why do you think I went on a three post rant?

Llamas
09-06-2008, 12:40 AM
That's what I was told. Why do you think I went on a three post rant?

I mean that it's not necessarily true that she doesn't really support both. You don't know that she doesn't, and that she's just trying to get votes.

Mota Boy
09-06-2008, 01:17 AM
What I meant by that is that religion used to be the explanations for life before people had the means and abilities to figure out the secrets of the universe on their own. Now that science and technology is so far advanced, a lot of the things that were mysterious and unexplainable before, are now very apparent and simple.

I find it very irrational that people will disregard hard evidence, for the teachings/thruthiness of a 2000 year old book....and yet the majority of people do. Religion speaks to a part of humanity that science has not and cannot replace. Religion and science compete in some aspects of our understanding of the universe, but by and large complement each other in covering different facets of our interaction with the world. Just because, over the centuries, science has encroached upon the once-omnipresent domain of religion does not mean that religion has been rendered obsolete, and arguing that a man with science needs no religion comes across to most ears as stunted an argument as claiming that a man with religion needs no science.

Sunny
09-06-2008, 07:38 AM
I don't fully agree with this. I do believe that people who are upfront about being atheist are douches, because they are not trying to help anyone by doing so- they are usually trying to be assholes. However, people who are upfront Christians have leeway. I say this because I understand the viewpoint- you're a Christian, you're going to be saved and go to Heaven. Well, you want the people you care about to do also be saved and go to Heaven. I have heard the comparison, "If you saw your loved ones walking straight toward the edge of a cliff, wouldn't you try to stop them?" There is compassion and love in such an idea.


there are some atheists who claim they want to "show people the light" so that people can live their life to the fullest without fear, enjoy it and make the most of it now instead of looking to the afterlife.

i think both behaviors are essentially two sides of the same coin, which is "I know what's good for you better than you do". i find it hard to believe that it's actually motivated by compassion - because a compassionate approach would involve imagining yourself in that person's situation before you speak.

bighead384
09-06-2008, 10:40 AM
I personally don't like Christianity much, and I'm not going to pretend to have more respect for it then I actually do just to go against punk and cliche non-conformist opinions.

WebDudette
09-06-2008, 12:58 PM
I don't quite understand forceful atheists. I think I'm pretty much an atheist purely out of apathy (oh man, I must be using a thesaurus!).

That said, it would be nice to be partly religious or to have something to believe in but I can't quite compel myself to believe anything like that. And its not like an omnipotent (there I go again) God is going to be fooled by me pretending.

I always assumed most people thought evolution to be true until an argument irrupted in my French class. A few kids insisted that evolution is not something thats possible and that animals sporadically mutating is a ridiculous proposition (which is totally how it happens), even though we can easily document some forms of evolution that have happened in the last 100 years or less. Then there were the kids who were in between (God created us with the intention of mankind and all other things evolving (yes people do believe in both hypno toad), which is a far more logical thought process. Anyway, the amount of people who just plain ignored evolution baffled me.

This could very well be jumbled and just sound moronic, I'm still recovering from last night, I hope you at least kind of understand what I'm saying.

Steal
09-06-2008, 02:20 PM
You can't really believe that God created humans and also evolution though, they don't go hand in hand. mtDNA evidence indicates that modern humans originated in Africa about 200,000 years ago. Of course, the bible says God created us like 6,000 years ago, or something.

Llamas
09-06-2008, 02:53 PM
there are some atheists who claim they want to "show people the light" so that people can live their life to the fullest without fear, enjoy it and make the most of it now instead of looking to the afterlife.

i think both behaviors are essentially two sides of the same coin, which is "I know what's good for you better than you do". i find it hard to believe that it's actually motivated by compassion - because a compassionate approach would involve imagining yourself in that person's situation before you speak.

I suppose you're probably right. I've never heard an atheist claim that, but it sounds likely.

And for the second part, I see what you're saying. Maybe it is compassion, but just not really that well thought out. But it is rather important to think more about things like religion before you throw it around... I don't think it's completely void of love, though.

jacknife737
09-06-2008, 02:58 PM
You can't really believe that God created humans and also evolution though, they don't go hand in hand. mtDNA evidence indicates that modern humans originated in Africa about 200,000 years ago. Of course, the bible says God created us like 6,000 years ago, or something.

The bible doesn't claim that, some crazy fundamentalists claim it does, but there is no direct passage that says it was created 6000 years ago. One can perfectly believe in both evolution and God, simply that God used evolution to create humans. Also, many Christians do not take the bible as literal fact, merely a book of metaphors and stories that can be used to better ones life.

Sunny
09-06-2008, 03:45 PM
You can't really believe that God created humans and also evolution though, they don't go hand in hand. mtDNA evidence indicates that modern humans originated in Africa about 200,000 years ago. Of course, the bible says God created us like 6,000 years ago, or something.

yeah... if you're a dumb fuck who takes the Bible literally.


I suppose you're probably right. I've never heard an atheist claim that, but it sounds likely.

And for the second part, I see what you're saying. Maybe it is compassion, but just not really that well thought out. But it is rather important to think more about things like religion before you throw it around... I don't think it's completely void of love, though.

i don't think it's void of love, but i think often their definition of love is very narrow and very conditional. the Christian saying "hating the sin loving the sinner", once you strip away the rhetoric, means ultimately "i love who i think you could be but i hate who you actually are".

jacknife737
09-06-2008, 04:14 PM
Oh, also, Palin can add "racist" to her ever short resume. She loves to refer to Alaskan aboriginals as "Arctic Arabs" and other lovely sayings.

http://www.laprogressive.com/2008/09/05/alaskans-speak-in-a-frightened-whisper-palin-is-%E2%80%9Cracist-sexist-vindictive-and-mean%E2%80%9D
/

IamSam
09-06-2008, 05:37 PM
Oh, also, Palin can add "racist" to her ever short resume. She loves to refer to Alaskan aboriginals as "Arctic Arabs" and other lovely sayings.

http://www.laprogressive.com/2008/09/05/alaskans-speak-in-a-frightened-whisper-palin-is-%E2%80%9Cracist-sexist-vindictive-and-mean%E2%80%9D
/

Good god. That's ridiculous.

randman21
09-06-2008, 07:30 PM
the Christian saying "hating the sin loving the sinner", once you strip away the rhetoric, means ultimately "i love who i think you could be but i hate who you actually are".
I actually disagree. I can't say that I've ever heard that, but in theory, it sounds like something akin to "hate the addiction, not the addict." Whether or not that's the practice can go either way.

T-6005
09-07-2008, 09:28 AM
Oh, also, Palin can add "racist" to her ever short resume. She loves to refer to Alaskan aboriginals as "Arctic Arabs" and other lovely sayings.

http://www.laprogressive.com/2008/09/05/alaskans-speak-in-a-frightened-whisper-palin-is-%E2%80%9Cracist-sexist-vindictive-and-mean%E2%80%9D
/
What a stupid article.

In other news, I just watched a CNN panel where they discussed party platforms. Normally I wouldn't care but this on featured James Carville and I've decided that I'm in love with him.

Desperado
09-07-2008, 05:05 PM
I feel that McCain is a better candidate, but I am thinking about going with Obama because Sarah Palin is bad enough for me to reconsider. Is this unreasonable? I think the pick for vice-president is extremely important, especially taking into account McCain's age and I just don't feel comfortable with Palin as the president. If McCain chose a better VP I would vote for him no problem, but now I'm really not so sure...

wheelchairman
09-07-2008, 05:13 PM
Well if McCain wins Palin is only one heart attack from power.

And that's pretty screwed up.

Really screwed up.

And I really don't have much of a problem with McCain, I just really like Obama.

jacknife737
09-07-2008, 09:21 PM
Drudge is reporting that the NY Times is going to run a major story tomorrow regarding Palin and her baby…. i suspect it's a secret muslim.

Mota Boy
09-07-2008, 10:44 PM
If so, I fucking hope the Times has learned its lesson well after their story on McCain back in February: if you're going to make allegations, have the fucking evidence to back it up. If there is anything short of a smoking gun, it's just going to end up riling the right and embarrassing the Old Gray Lady.

Little_Miss_1565
09-07-2008, 11:13 PM
Remind me what they said about McCain in February?

jacknife737
09-07-2008, 11:17 PM
Remind me what they said about McCain in February?

Claimed he had an affair. http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/21/us/politics/21mccain.html

Mota Boy
09-07-2008, 11:56 PM
They didn't claim it - they just insinuated it heavily without any real evidence, turning out a piece that was all rumor and ended up rallying conservatives around a candidate to whom they were previously lukewarm if not openly hostile.

jacknife737
09-08-2008, 09:52 AM
well that was a let down...

Moose
09-08-2008, 10:22 AM
I feel that McCain is a better candidate, but I am thinking about going with Obama because Sarah Palin is bad enough for me to reconsider. Is this unreasonable? I think the pick for vice-president is extremely important, especially taking into account McCain's age and I just don't feel comfortable with Palin as the president. If McCain chose a better VP I would vote for him no problem, but now I'm really not so sure...


Well...think of it this wat...biden as experience, but he has been just about wrong on everything, ever.

obama you feel isnt fit or whatever for president. but you are basically saying you rather vote in someone that you dont like as president, but wont vote for someone who will be a vp.

if mccain dies, yes it sucks, i dont care for palin's ultra conservative views (even though that article is ultra left with no actual proof of anything)

however, i rather vote someone in like mccain who is ready to be president, than obama who isnt.

but i dont care for palin, but i also dont care or trust obama.

i would have rather had mccain select bobby jindal.

i dont care for all of mccain's policies, same with obama...but as usual, this is the lesser of 2 evils/idiots talk...and i think as of right now, mccain is that guy.

palin is a tough bitch, no doubt about it, but i dont care for some of her views and inexperience...but obama has no experience either...but at least palin is running as a vp and not a president like obama.

Vera
09-08-2008, 10:37 AM
-- i dont care for palin's ultra conservative views --

...

but i dont care for palin, but i also dont care or trust obama.

...

i dont care for all of mccain's policies, same with obama..

palin is a tough bitch, no doubt about it, but i dont care for some of her views and inexperience...

Is there anything you do care for?

Moose
09-08-2008, 10:44 AM
Is there anything you do care for?

i care for you.


:D

Sunny
09-08-2008, 10:53 AM
Palin is such a "tough bitch" that, in the words of the McCain campaign, she won't be doing any interviews "until the point in time when she'll be treated with respect and deference".

yes, deference.

in other words, "play nice or i'm taking my toys and going home :(:(:("
homegirl needs to grow some ovaries. stat.

Little_Miss_1565
09-08-2008, 12:46 PM
Well...think of it this wat...biden as experience, but he has been just about wrong on everything, ever.

What? No. Just, no. Do you have any examples or is this just a conservative talking point?

Sunny
09-08-2008, 01:25 PM
What? No. Just, no. Do you have any examples or is this just a conservative talking point?

keep in mind this is coming from a person who mentioned socialized healthcare as an example of how socialism and communism "work in theory but not in practice".

Little_Miss_1565
09-08-2008, 01:27 PM
keep in mind this is coming from a person who mentioned socialized healthcare as an example of how socialism and communism "work in theory but not in practice".

*facepalm*

I need some socialized healthcare like rightfuckingnow.

Vera
09-08-2008, 02:01 PM
Is Moose American? His English says no but his opinions say yes.

KHWHD
09-08-2008, 07:46 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BobGQTMhxf8

Sunny
09-09-2008, 10:41 AM
so Shank, what are your thoughts on that clip?

i love how being a Muslim is being equated with being a terrorist these days; how having "Hussein" as your middle name makes you a terrorist as well; and how a verbal slip is being showcased as proof of him "being a Muslim". it's pathetic and ridiculous.

nieh
09-09-2008, 11:39 AM
My grandma is one of those people that's freaked out by the fact that his middle name is Hussein. Way back when the Daily Show had those clips of all those folks from WV saying stuff like "his middle name's Hussein! I'm TIRED of Hussein!" I was like "wow, how come no one told me grandma moved to WV?"

That doesn't really have much to do with the thread, I was just reminded of it by your post.

KHWHD
09-09-2008, 11:41 AM
so Shank, what are your thoughts on that clip?

i love how being a Muslim is being equated with being a terrorist these days; how having "Hussein" as your middle name makes you a terrorist as well; and how a verbal slip is being showcased as proof of him "being a Muslim". it's pathetic and ridiculous.

I have no thoughts. An American friend had it on his MSN (the clip) so I thought I'd post it here. I don't follow politics, well the states anyway.

jacknife737
09-09-2008, 08:09 PM
It really amazes me how many people actually by into that shit. Like sometimes i browse conservative sites for a laugh, if i'm bored, ie say freerepublic; these people are fucking crazy.

Jebus
09-09-2008, 10:35 PM
http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/sliming_palin.html

* Palin did not cut funding for special needs education in Alaska by 62 percent. She didnít cut it at all. In fact, she tripled per-pupil funding over just three years.

* She did not demand that books be banned from the Wasilla library. Some of the books on a widely circulated list were not even in print at the time. The librarian has said Palin asked a "What if?" question, but the librarian continued in her job through most of Palin's first term.

* She was never a member of the Alaskan Independence Party, a group that wants Alaskans to vote on whether they wish to secede from the United States. Sheís been registered as a Republican since May 1982.

* Palin never endorsed or supported Pat Buchanan for president. She once wore a Buchanan button as a "courtesy" when he visited Wasilla, but shortly afterward she was appointed to co-chair of the campaign of Steve Forbes in the state.

* Palin has not pushed for teaching creationism in Alaska's schools. She has said that students should be allowed to "debate both sides" of the evolution question, but she also said creationism "doesn't have to be part of the curriculum."

This is great. My nipples get nice and pointy when liberal blogs are showed to be just as full of shit as the conservative media they bitch about all day.

Llamas
09-09-2008, 10:37 PM
Apparently, the right wings are claiming that Obama was misogynistic toward Palin now... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FPd4yk0x-eg

Hypno Toad
09-09-2008, 10:52 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BobGQTMhxf8

HOLY SHIT!

.....







Isn't there any better news worth reporting? ABC is really scraping the bottom of the barrel here.

jacknife737
09-12-2008, 01:29 AM
Palin believes that the Iraq war has a quote "task from God", i wonder if this will get the same amount of media exposure that Obama's "gaffes" have gotten, somehow i doubt it will.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2ypVSYoEKA

Sunny
09-12-2008, 07:02 AM
the problem is that some Americans might actually agree with that statement.

NickyNineDoors
09-12-2008, 12:39 PM
french fries

Llamas
09-12-2008, 01:47 PM
http://photos-b.ak.facebook.com/photos-ak-sf2p/v339/78/93/747837515/n747837515_1277577_4670.jpg

http://photos-f.ak.facebook.com/photos-ak-sf2p/v336/248/86/13801964/n13801964_33128453_5491.jpg

http://photos-g.ak.facebook.com/photos-ak-sf2p/v336/248/86/13801964/n13801964_33128438_912.jpg

http://photos-f.ak.facebook.com/photos-ak-sf2p/v336/248/86/13801964/n13801964_33128445_3104.jpg

Llamas
09-12-2008, 01:50 PM
http://photos-c.ak.facebook.com/photos-ak-sf2p/v336/248/86/13801964/n13801964_33128450_4600.jpg

http://photos-b.ak.facebook.com/photos-ak-sf2p/v336/248/86/13801964/n13801964_33128433_9384.jpg

I admit, I laughed at each of these.

Vera
09-12-2008, 02:53 PM
Uhh the uterus one is tres tacky to me.

The Daily Show's segment of Samantha Bee at RNC was priceless:

http://www.comedycentral.com/videos/index.jhtml?videoId=184097

XYlophonetreeZ
09-12-2008, 07:45 PM
Did anyone see her interview with Charlie Gibson? She sucked. She sounded like she didn't know what she was talking about the entire time. She regurgitated "safe" answers to essentially every question. No wonder the McCain campaign wouldn't let her out of her cage until now. I'm kind of relieved, actually. From all I've heard about her being so cool-headed and eloquent I was starting to worry about her potential debate skills, but I'm not worried at all anymore. She's not half as smooth when you take away the teleprompter. I'm guessing that if she's allowed to do many more of these interviews, she'll lose even some of the conservative faithful. Thank God.

EDIT: Youtube link for those who haven't seen it (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oNPGnZurs1k)

JohnnyNemesis
09-12-2008, 07:52 PM
Oh, no doubt about it. She is going to get fucking decimated.

Mota Boy
09-12-2008, 10:30 PM
We'll see. She lost the "underestimation" bid by reading off a good speech, but there will still be some of that. And Biden has to be careful, if he runs off his mouth or comes out like an asshole, that's what the coverage will be. Media coverage, by and large, is pathetic. After the debate, it will be reported - and collectively remembered - for only a handful of moments, almost certainly none of which will be a policy point.

XYlophonetreeZ
09-12-2008, 11:17 PM
I dunno, if Palin performs as badly in the debate as she did in this interview then I really can't see how anything could overshadow it, unless Biden REALLY fucks up. I mean, when Gibson brought up McCain's remark on how being close to Russia gave her foreign policy credentials, she didn't even seem to understand that he was insinuating that the comment was ridiculous. She just went along and said, "Y'know, you can actually SEE Russia from parts of Alaska!" This is too good.

Biden's been pretty good about not slipping up lately, but I have to admit that just makes me think he's overdue, since he's kind of known for gaffes. I really like the guy though, I think he may be the most genuine sounding politician I've ever heard. I do really wish he'd stop saying stuff that begins with "My mother/father used to have an expression" though. That kinda drives me nuts.

Very recently, Obama's been under fire for a campaign ad in which he criticized McCain for not knowing how to use a computer. Turns out the reason he can't use a computer is because of his war injuries, which prevent him from being able to type on a keyboard. Oops. That might hurt a little.

Mota Boy
09-12-2008, 11:39 PM
As I understand it, Senator McCain can't raise his arms above his shoulders.

http://images.huffingtonpost.com/gen/38574/original.jpg

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/218/500371880_ec081f3e07.jpg?v=0

How, exactly, does that prevent him from using a keyboard? I certainly could be wrong, but it seems to me pretty fucking ridiculous that the man doesn't have to be spoon-fed his meals and yet is physically unable to point, which seems to be the minimum requirement for using a keyboard.

XYlophonetreeZ
09-12-2008, 11:52 PM
I thought the same thing, but I'll have to wait until I hear more. Prior to the ad, I too had only heard the thing about raising his arms above the shoulders. Even if it is true that he can't use a computer, the folks who made the ad may not have even known.

Also, this stuff is all from bloggers who dug up an old Boston Globe article which listed "typing on a keyboard" among a bunch of things he can't do. I don't think the McCain campaign has actually issued a statement on this ad yet. If it's true then I'm sure we'll all hear a lot more about this. If not, then I'm sure the campaign will just stay silent and let the bloggers have their fun. Either way it's probably not great for Obama.

Mota Boy
09-13-2008, 12:21 AM
Either way it's probably not great for Obama.Possibly, but again it doesn't fit in the least the range of motion that he displays in every television appearance. Something doesn't jibe. Even if it simmers, it does play up McCain's experience as a POW, but it also reinforces the theme that he's old and feeble, which is not something the camp wants to project.

Vera
09-14-2008, 07:29 AM
http://www.cartoonlabs.com/comics/index.php?date=2008-09-14&show=sinfest

IamSam
09-14-2008, 03:25 PM
http://www.cartoonlabs.com/comics/index.php?date=2008-09-14&show=sinfest

Nice.

I randomly saw a woman who very much resembled Palin today. Has anyone seen the Get Fuzzy comic dealing with Palin?

randman21
09-14-2008, 05:40 PM
Oh yes I did. That was a good one. The Python references were pretty awesome.

Jebus
09-14-2008, 09:50 PM
Tina Fey as Sarah Palin on SNL yesterday. I fapped.

0r4ng3
09-14-2008, 09:53 PM
Yeah, I saw that coming.

The Palin thing, not the fappage thing.

Jakebert
09-14-2008, 10:28 PM
I saw the fapping coming.

...someone had to say it.

randman21
09-15-2008, 02:34 AM
I didn't exactly see it coming, but one of my first comments upon seeing Palin was the resemblance between the two. That point in the show was the only thing worth the anticipation.

Jebus
09-15-2008, 09:31 PM
Okay, both McCain's and Obama's spokesmen are huge douchebags (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BxKbZHpWwJ0). Listening to their responses made me cringe. I actually think Tucker came out looking better than Obama's spokesman. The computer thing was a really bad move on Obama's part.

sKratch
09-15-2008, 09:42 PM
I think the proper response probably would have been, "How do those injuries impede his use of computers?" I would say the Obama spokesman was worse at being interviewed, but the McCain guy was more of a douche.

Jebus
09-15-2008, 09:56 PM
Both just sort of emit that natural douchebag aura. If I was Obama, I'd just apologize and run with the whole being the bigger man thing. It really isn't a big deal and he could get some of that "I man up to my mistakes" credit. McCain's ad would be harder to apoligze for since that shit was straight up deceptive.

Mota Boy
09-16-2008, 02:11 PM
Yeah, like he should have apologized for the "lipstick" remark or for teaching sex ed to kindergartners? Come on, McCain's injuries don't prevent him from using a keyboard - as recently as a couple months ago there was a story (http://blog.wired.com/27bstroke6/2008/07/mccain-says-hes.html) about McCain's internet ineptitude, during which it apparently never came up that the man can't use a keyboard.

To apologize for a false suggestion would be absolutely ludicrous.

In other news, I just shook Barack's hand.

jacknife737
09-16-2008, 04:53 PM
Check out this election simulator, I love these things, a good way to help you procrastinate. http://www.270towin.com/


In other news, I just shook Barack's hand.

I must say, I am more then a little bit jealous. Are you working for the campaign, or just volunteering?

Mota Boy
09-16-2008, 09:40 PM
I started off volunteering, then got hired on in August. Your campaign contribution buys me beer.

Little_Miss_1565
09-16-2008, 09:42 PM
In other news, I just shook Barack's hand.

Freakin' hot.

Jebus
09-16-2008, 10:25 PM
I must say, I am more then a little bit jealous. Are you working for the campaign, or just volunteering?
Did I miss something? How did you figure that out from just a hand shake?

jacknife737
09-16-2008, 11:37 PM
Did I miss something? How did you figure that out from just a hand shake?

I remember him posting in a couple other threads where he seemed to indicate that he was associated with the campaign. (Correct me if i'm wrong Mota Boy).

IamSam
09-17-2008, 12:38 AM
Check out this election simulator, I love these things, a good way to help you procrastinate. http://www.270towin.com/




That is sweet. Under my simulation, Obama wins by 2. 2.

jacknife737
09-17-2008, 05:49 PM
Oh, and anonymous hacked Palin's email
http://gawker.com/5051193/sarah-palins-personal-email s

Jebus
09-17-2008, 07:38 PM
Bill is going to send Moot to jail. =(
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7X8NJL3W2U8

jacknife737
09-17-2008, 08:14 PM
I fucking hate Bill O'Reilly

WebDudette
09-17-2008, 09:06 PM
I was around when that happened. I <3 'ebaumsworld'.

Also, they didn't promote it, the thread was deleted a couple times. I hope they can't use this for some kind of sympathy :(.

Mota Boy
09-17-2008, 10:30 PM
Ha! The Right's primary concerns over the past month have been discrimination against women and now the right to privacy!

What a fucking farce.

Llamas
09-17-2008, 11:45 PM
Oh my god... half of me can't understand how pathetic and bored one must be to decide to hack into her account and post that stuff... the other half is laughing at how much O'Reilly is reacting to it.

Static_Martyr
09-18-2008, 06:58 AM
^Maybe there's....um, something in there he doesn't want us to find? Hint, hint?

IamSam
09-18-2008, 09:00 PM
Yes Bill, we outta just pack it up. Call it an empire. Whatdoya say ole O'Reilly boy?

Jebus
09-18-2008, 09:09 PM
Papa Bill gets completely schooled in his followup segment.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCSaF4KC3eE

jacknife737
09-18-2008, 10:33 PM
Papa Bill gets completely schooled in his followup segment.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCSaF4KC3eE

again, what a fucking asshat. Fight the POWHA

Llamas
09-18-2008, 10:44 PM
Papa Bill gets completely schooled in his followup segment.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCSaF4KC3eE

Holy shit! He argued like half the idiots who post here! First his argument wasn't related to what she was saying, and then he changed the scenario... and talk about terrible analogies. hahaha wow. I felt bad for that lady.

WebDudette
09-18-2008, 11:30 PM
Chances are Bill has put something on the air in a similar way.

Mota Boy
09-18-2008, 11:46 PM
What I loved about that was Megyn telling Bill "the Supreme Court says..." and O'Reilly fucking arguing that the Supreme Court was wrong "No, they did this. That's illegal." What a blowhard.

And shockingly, I'm discovering I kinda like someone from Fox.

Llamas
09-18-2008, 11:54 PM
What I loved about that was Megyn telling Bill "the Supreme Court says..." and O'Reilly fucking arguing that the Supreme Court was wrong "No, they did this. That's illegal." What a blowhard.

And shockingly, I'm discovering I kinda like someone from Fox.

I've watched it twice... and I've literally facepalmed both times. His $50 for your birthday analogy is just hilarious. "That's crazy." I guess the supreme court is crazy, huh? I also like how he claimed he "ran out of time" when he just couldn't argue it anymore.

By the way, I hate that he called her a "tough cookie". It just sounds so sexist to me.

Static_Martyr
09-20-2008, 04:54 PM
I like the video of O'Reilly getting schooled by his own correspondent :)

IamSam
09-20-2008, 08:00 PM
I just had someone tell me they want McCain and Palin because it will change things. Palin is a woman and that's why.

After that was said I began the process of scraping my mind off of the wall behind me.

Static_Martyr
09-21-2008, 05:52 PM
I just noticed something that only makes sense when it's written down.

Palin = Stalin

....or maybe not?

0r4ng3
09-21-2008, 05:54 PM
If she was a Democrat, that would have been pointed out weeks ago, I think.

Jakebert
09-21-2008, 09:32 PM
http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/3849/storyac5.gif (http://imageshack.us)
http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/storyac5.gif/1/w550.png (http://g.imageshack.us/img213/storyac5.gif/1/)

Jebus
09-21-2008, 11:28 PM
I would have enjoyed it more if the liberal blogs didn't repeat the lie of the third panel as often. Seems a bit hypocritical. Her husband was part of the party for a while though. Someone should ask why she married someone who hates America so much. That would be great.

Mota Boy
09-22-2008, 12:59 AM
So... if Sarah Palin was a Democrat, the "right-wing media" would be regurgitating all the left-wing media's talking points? Somehow I doubt they'd scare up the base with stories of book-banning and the failure of teen abstinence.

The story would be much more about how this was a joke because we selected a woman just because she was a woman, it's political correctness run amok. She'd be insanely presumptive to speak of a preacher praying for God to make her political ascendancy happen. That cartoon was incredibly uncreative.

IamSam
09-22-2008, 01:32 PM
I just had a thrilling converstation with a Republican, alibet one that isn't going to vote do to not being registered. Thank god. I'll run through the points really quick:

-Republican said that Obama scares her and that we'll probably all be in bed with the Arabs before we know it. I responded with something along the lines of 'just because his middle name is Hussien? Wouldn't being in bed with the Arabs with these high gas prices be good? I doubt that we have much to worry with him being a Methodist* from Illinois.

*I don't know if he is or not, but it made her shut up and move on.

-She said that he would take all our guns away. (I live in Montana...it's a big deal) I told her he couldn't because of the Washington DC court case stating that the 2nd Amendment gives that right now. She said it was the government and they could do whatever they wanted. I told her a little revolution was good every once and a while and what good were her guns if she was just going to turn them over? She melted.

-Then she said that she wanted change and that McCain would be best for change. I asked her if she new his voting record and she did not. I filled her in on the fact that he is a Bush clone and Palin's shenaniginz up north. She then said that it would still be good to get a woman in the White House. I said brilliant idea, only if we keep her caged at that time of month. She thought it was funny.

Sunny
09-22-2008, 01:40 PM
i try to avoid arguing with Republicans, because more often than not, it's an exercise in futility. last time i argued with a Republican, she said Obama was a Muslim for sure and didn't believe in "our God". when i inquired into what "our God" exactly entails, she said "Christian God and our Judeo-Christian values". thank goodness we were in a hot tub with a margarita machine nearby, because otherwise I would've been far less mellow and lost my collective shit.

Llamas
09-22-2008, 07:24 PM
Hmm, I don't usually discuss politics with people I don't know well, and the Republicans I know are generally level headed folks. I guess that sometimes I'll see idiots online, which is annoying... but my best guy friend and my brother are both Republicans, and they're actually two of my favorite people to talk politics with. As my friend says, it's cause "we have opposing views AND we're not douches."

Iamsam, while I disagree fully with the girl you argued with, I think your counterarguments kinda sucked. No offense :P

WebDudette
09-22-2008, 08:11 PM
I was seriously baffled by the fact that I had to explain to 2 kids in one of my classes that Obama is not a Muslim, he is not the anti-Christ, and that he is actually a Christian.

I was even more saddened when I brought it up with a group of friends and 3 of them replied with 'Wait he isn't?!'.

Jebus
09-22-2008, 09:02 PM
I've never met a Republican to be honest. Or maybe I have just haven't openly discussed politics with them.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SpB9OoOU02M
Are people actually offended by this? All the liberal blogs are taking this as some sort of insult to American workers. He just chose an arbitrary number an didn't really think about how much it would come out for in total. People are all angry and saying "bawww John McCain is out of touch with the average American and doesn't know how tough we have it and the lengths we would go for that 50 dollars an hour." But they pretty much completely miss his original point that our economy isn't fucked up enough for most people to have to live the migrant farm worker experience over just working for minimum wage in a fast food place. Seriously, lets just pick a more reasonable but still inflated number of $20 an hour and I can guarantee most people wouldn't drag their children to that life style of living in substandard housing and unsanitary/dangerous conditions.

IamSam
09-22-2008, 09:26 PM
Iamsam, while I disagree fully with the girl you argued with, I think your counterarguments kinda sucked. No offense :P

Lol...trust me...I know they sucked. They didn't have to be amazing counter arguments with her though!:p

Mota Boy
09-23-2008, 02:15 AM
I've never met a Republican to be honest. Or maybe I have just haven't openly discussed politics with them.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SpB9OoOU02M
Are people actually offended by this? All the liberal blogs are taking this as some sort of insult to American workers. He just chose an arbitrary number an didn't really think about how much it would come out for in total. People are all angry and saying "bawww John McCain is out of touch with the average American and doesn't know how tough we have it and the lengths we would go for that 50 dollars an hour." But they pretty much completely miss his original point that our economy isn't fucked up enough for most people to have to live the migrant farm worker experience over just working for minimum wage in a fast food place. Seriously, lets just pick a more reasonable but still inflated number of $20 an hour and I can guarantee most people wouldn't drag their children to that life style of living in substandard housing and unsanitary/dangerous conditions.

Without seeing the video you linked...

1) First off, blogs are picking up on that because it feeds into the narrative of John McCain as out of touch and bad on the economy. That's the story, and anything that feeds into it will be picked up and amplified as further proof because it reconfirms everyone's suspicions about Senator McCain. It's very difficult to change a narrative.

2) Wouldn't your explanation for McCain's point just be further proof that he's out of touch? If he's saying "Well, it could always be worse, at least we aren't all eating mud and using rocks for blankets" then he's downplaying the very real suffering that many Americans are facing.

Jebus
09-23-2008, 02:49 AM
Without seeing the video you linked...

2) Wouldn't your explanation for McCain's point just be further proof that he's out of touch? If he's saying "Well, it could always be worse, at least we aren't all eating mud and using rocks for blankets" then he's downplaying the very real suffering that many Americans are facing.
He was just talking about how there's some jobs Americans would not do and how those migrant workers help build the backbone (actually, not sure if he was referring to immigrants as our backbone because he was interrupted) of our economy. Then he got some moans (something about paying the right wages) and he said that he would pay anyone $50/h for anyone willing to pick lettuce in yuma for the entire season. Like I said, it was a pretty stupid to offer that much, but he wasn't trying to make a statement about how great our economy is compared to other countries to downplay American hardships and was simply talking about immigration reform. Yeah, he inadvertently had to bring up the point that we are better off than most countries, but I don't think that's enough to say he's out of touch. (Not to say he is or isn't)

wheelchairman
09-23-2008, 04:02 AM
Obvious point, migrant labor is relatively new. Those jobs were at one point in time done by locals. (For a higher wage I'm guessing.) He's making a bad point in general, because people will be willing to do awful shit if it means they can support their families.

Little_Miss_1565
09-23-2008, 09:00 AM
http://www.pbs.org/now/polls/poll-435.html

PBS is doing a poll asking if Sarah Palin is qualified to be VP. The right wing has organized a 'yes' campaign. Let's organize a 'no' campaign.

randman21
09-23-2008, 09:06 AM
Must be a hell of a campaign. Thirty votes in for me and it's still 50-48-0.

Jesus
09-23-2008, 10:38 AM
He was just talking about how there's some jobs Americans would not do and how those migrant workers help build the backbone (actually, not sure if he was referring to immigrants as our backbone because he was interrupted) of our economy. Then he got some moans (something about paying the right wages) and he said that he would pay anyone $50/h for anyone willing to pick lettuce in yuma for the entire season. Like I said, it was a pretty stupid to offer that much, but he wasn't trying to make a statement about how great our economy is compared to other countries to downplay American hardships and was simply talking about immigration reform. Yeah, he inadvertently had to bring up the point that we are better off than most countries, but I don't think that's enough to say he's out of touch. (Not to say he is or isn't)

It just shows that he doesn't understand economics. The reason these jobs pay next to nothing isn't because they are crap jobs. The opposite would be true, they would have sky high wages if almost no Americans like to do them.
The reason these jobs pay next to nothing is the result of a deliberately created oversupply of labor in certain sectors through migration regulations. This results in those jobs having below market wages relative to tighter regulated sectors (a bunch of white collar stuff). Open those other sectors too, so that companies based in the US aren't obliged hire in the American workforce first, or don't have to pay foreign temporarily 'imported' workers the same wage as their American co-workers, or get quicker visas... . Wages would go down in those sectors too and level the playing field once again and they would also distribute the wealth more evenly (because the poor wouldn't have to pay the artificially higher prices for white collar services/products). Or you could just regulate migration altogether better, which would raise wages in the crap sectors to the actual American market level.

Jebus
09-23-2008, 12:49 PM
It just shows that he doesn't understand economics. The reason these jobs pay next to nothing isn't because they are crap jobs. The opposite would be true, they would have sky high wages if almost no Americans like to do them.
The reason these jobs pay next to nothing is the result of a deliberately created oversupply of labor in certain sectors through migration regulations. This results in those jobs having below market wages relative to tighter regulated sectors (a bunch of white collar stuff). Open those other sectors too, so that companies based in the US aren't obliged hire in the American workforce first, or don't have to pay foreign temporarily 'imported' workers the same wage as their American co-workers, or get quicker visas... . Wages would go down in those sectors too and level the playing field once again and they would also distribute the wealth more evenly (because the poor wouldn't have to pay the artificially higher prices for white collar services/products). Or you could just regulate migration altogether better, which would raise wages in the crap sectors to the actual American market level.

Now you're getting into sketchy laissez-faire vs more government regulation territory, which you made good arguments for and I'd agree with you to a certain extent. The thing is I'm pretty sure McCain and Obama stand exactly the same on the immigration issue since they're both for an expanded guest-worker program and amnesty. If the liberal blogs got into it as much as you did, Obama would be in the same boat. The only thing they were focusing on was the whole $2,000 a week and calling out McCain on being out of touch for thinking Americans wouldn't pick lettuce for that huge amount. The only thing I'd accused McCain of in that situation would be being bad at math.

I guess the only point I was trying to make is that I fucking hate the liberal blogosphere.

F@ BANKZ
09-23-2008, 01:36 PM
Must be a hell of a campaign. Thirty votes in for me and it's still 50-48-0.

Something about this doesn't add up, and I'm fairly certain it's the figures.

jacknife737
09-23-2008, 04:52 PM
I guess the only point I was trying to make is that I fucking hate the liberal blogosphere.

More so then the conservative one? Because, the point you raised didn't really seem like that big of a deal, this is an election year, and they're supposed to counterbalance the incredibly effective conservative warmachine. Of course they're going to attack McCain for every little thing that he does, as they should. Look what happened in 04.

Jakebert
09-23-2008, 07:52 PM
It always seems like Jacknife has the last post in this thread. It's not even like he has more posts than anyone else in the thread, but like every time I look is coincidentally when he has the last post.

Sunny
09-26-2008, 08:18 PM
so ok, maybe i'm immature, but i found this hilarious:

sarah palin baby name generator!

http://politsk.blogspot.com/2008/09/sarah_13.html

Llamas
09-26-2008, 08:45 PM
Brianna, if you were born to Sarah Palin, your name would be:
Crop Schooner Palin

I approve!

So............ anyone else think Obama just creamed McCain?

Sunny
09-26-2008, 08:51 PM
i think Obama definitely owned him on economy and in general appeared very poised. McCain just seemed out of his element and was repeating vague talking points instead of actually focusing on issues. blah blah blah faith in the american worker blah blah STFU you irrelevant douche nozzle.

McCain did relatively good on foreign policy, though, which could be problematic for Obama. i think also it's funny - and telling - how Obama saying "i agree" to McCain is already being used against him. i mean... come on!

also, my mens' Palin name is "Buster Taint Palin", which makes me truly happy.

0r4ng3
09-26-2008, 08:54 PM
so ok, maybe i'm immature, but i found this hilarious:

sarah palin baby name generator!

http://politsk.blogspot.com/2008/09/sarah_13.html
I, Beans Harpoon Palin, also approve.

Llamas
09-26-2008, 08:58 PM
McCain just seemed out of his element and was repeating vague talking points instead of actually focusing on issues. blah blah blah faith in the american worker blah blah STFU you irrelevant douche nozzle.
I honestly walked out of the room several times when McCain was talking. I found myself very pissed off at the fact that he wasn't responding to Barack, but instead saying over and over "we need to cut spending". Yes. We know we need to cut spending.
I also found it funny that McCain did continually resort to sappy "bleeding heart" things, which is usually what Republicans claim Democrats do continuously.


McCain did relatively good on foreign policy, though, which could be problematic for Obama.
I agree that McCain did alright on foreign policy... but I don't see how it would be a problem for Obama. Do you mean because foreign policy is a big leg for Obama at this point, and McCain might gain some ground because of this?


i think also it's funny - and telling - how Obama saying "i agree" to McCain is already being used against him. i mean... come on!
Wait... it is?? how??


also, my mens' Palin name is "Buster Taint Palin", which makes me truly happy. Seems like the generator is quite accurate ;)

Mota Boy
09-26-2008, 10:33 PM
i think Obama definitely owned him on economy and in general appeared very poised...

McCain did relatively good on foreign policy, though...!Funny, I thought the exact opposite. I'll try not to be too long-winded (for my sake), but I thought McCain controlled the debate on the economy. I saw numerous times where I thought Obama could have a great fucking line but passed it up because he was playing defense. The debate on the economy was about government spending, earmarks and taxes, not on controlling the economy as a whole. On one hand, this was the debate McCain wanted to have - these are his issues. On the other... I think it may be ultimately problematic for him to have focused on those precisely because they are his strengths - voters are concerned about the governing of the economy as a whole, and McCain did not do much to improve his perception on that, an advantage which Obama strongly enjoys. I do think McCain made one, possibly significant mistake, however, when he mentioned the possibility of freezing government spending. That presents an open-ended scare tactic: McCain wouldn't help struggling homeowners? McCain wouldn't help us with rising grocery bills? McCain gives tax breaks to the oil companies but won't spend a dime to help us out with rising gas prices? etc.

On foreign policy, Obama kicked ass. I do not know why on Earth McCain would bring up "bombing Pakinstan" - that right there almost singularly made Obama seem like the stronger candidate while McCain sounded like a scared wimp. I wish Obama would have hammered him right there "John, are you saying you wouldn't take out Osama bin Laden if you knew exactly where he was, because you wouldn't want to offend someone?" make McCain flip flop right on the fucking spot. But he didn't, le sigh. Still, Obama looked pretty damn good on national security, which was his biggest question mark among undecideds. The news won't report it (more on that in a sec), but I think this is key from this debate - Obama looked good on his biggest perceived weakness, while McCain did nothing for his.

As for the media... I may be wrong, but I suspect this will ultimately be analyzed on two or three of the most paltry of grounds. It will be Obama "agreeing" with Senator McCain or saying "John... John that's wrong" to little effect [were I Republicans, I'd jump all over that and say "Imagine Obama at the UN, whimpering "Vlad, Vlad that's just not right."] or McCain refusing to look at Obama or refer to him as "Barack" or McCain throwing in too many "experience" references which just made him sound old or maybe a choice soundbite. The substance part of the debate was nothing new - it was the candidates' platforms, as it should be. The media is bored of that - they just report jabs and gaffes and the "character-revealing" shit. However, I think the American public will get the perspective above.


Oh, I will say this, however: I thought Obama was going to sound like a fucking idiot. I mean, I love the man, but people have assumed that because he's a great orator he'll knock out the old man, but this is a relative novice on the debate circuit, compared to a D.C. dude of nigh three decades. Also, the man stutters. He has a tendency of injecting a ton of "ums" and "uhs" and backtracking in his freewheeling thought process, and people wouldn't expect that and... man, he'd get ripped up. But Obama pulled it off, boosted his "Commander in Chief" cred and I believe will continue to roll in the McCain campaign suspension wake. When, exactly, will McCain restart his campaign anyway? And how many interviews and speeches has he given in the meantime?

XYlophonetreeZ
09-27-2008, 12:29 AM
Oh, I will say this, however: I thought Obama was going to sound like a fucking idiot. I mean, I love the man, but people have assumed that because he's a great orator he'll knock out the old man, but this is a relative novice on the debate circuit, compared to a D.C. dude of nigh three decades. Also, the man stutters. He has a tendency of injecting a ton of "ums" and "uhs" and backtracking in his freewheeling thought process, and people wouldn't expect that and... man, he'd get ripped up. But Obama pulled it off, boosted his "Commander in Chief" cred and I believe will continue to roll in the McCain campaign suspension wake. When, exactly, will McCain restart his campaign anyway? And how many interviews and speeches has he given in the meantime?

Yeah, but as for your last paragraph, dude. Everyone already knew that Obama stutters. Everyone already knew that he said "um" and "uh" a lot. I really think you're underestimating the American people. About the McCain campaign though: totally agree. They need to stop treatin Palin like a delicate little flower: but the Obama campaign does too. Do you know how many people I personally know who were offended by her remarks that belittled community organizers? Tons. Fucking tons of people. If there was any one moment from her belligerently brilliant speech that deserves quotation, then I wasn't there for it, because all she did in the speech I heard was belittle the work of thousands of community organizers across the nation.

And to put things into perspective, I have been a Joe Biden fan for more time than it has been fashionable to be one. I hoped he'd be president. And I can tell you, I've approved of every stance on the issues he's taken over the last few months. However, I was fucking pissed and disappointed in his interview with Charlie Gibson when he responded to Palin's obnoxious "community organizer" line with a smile and "pretty good line." Fuck NO it wasn't! Dude, Joe. If you want to have ONE good line to attack, and one good line to pit yourselves against, then that was the one, and you just BLEW IT. I was extremely disappointed in his decision to appease the McCain presentation's treatment in treating her like a delicate little flower and to treat her as one themselves. The Obama campaign wonders where these charges of sexism are coming from? Well, they're partly responsible, congratu-fucking-lations.

Mota Boy
09-27-2008, 01:10 AM
Yeah, but as for your last paragraph, dude. Everyone already knew that Obama stutters. Everyone already knew that he said "um" and "uh" a lot. I really think you're underestimating the American people.Over half of the American people think that Senator Obama will raise their taxes. I think it's fair to say that a significant percentage of them haven't seen him debate. I repeatedly heard people say how much ass he was going to kick based on his awesome rhetorical skill when he demonstrated himself during the primary as a relatively sub-par debater.


Wait... and you're saying that the Obama campaign is responsible for charges of sexism because it complimented Palin? WTF? The false sexism charges by the right were related to saying Palin was not up to the job (because the only reason people could be saying that was because she was a woman). I think the campaign's done it right - praise her, sit back and let her hang herself with her own rope.

F@ BANKZ
09-27-2008, 03:17 AM
Wrangler Tractor Palin, I'm proud of who I am.

That_Guy91
09-27-2008, 08:01 AM
Over half of the American people think that Senator Obama will raise their taxes.

He won't? I'm not saying that I think he will, I'm just not familiar with his economic plan.

jacknife737
09-27-2008, 09:37 AM
http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g178/jacknife737/obama_mccain_taxcut-1.gif 10 characters

Sunny
09-27-2008, 09:59 AM
He won't? I'm not saying that I think he will, I'm just not familiar with his economic plan.

that's exactly the problem. people don't bother learning about his actual policies, but they absorb Fox News/McCain spewage even if they don't know it.

Llamas
09-27-2008, 11:14 AM
Several times in the debate, McCain would say something about what Obama has done, or what he believes, as solid fact, and then Obama would say, "That's not true". Sometimes Obama would come back and explain why it wasn't true, sometimes he didn't. What bugged me was that McCain KEPT DOING IT. Where does he get his facts? Does he just make them up?

Moose
09-27-2008, 02:42 PM
Not everyone watches fox news and just believes them. People get their beliefs off of what happened in the past and what they figure to be the reality of the time.


People believe Obama will raise their taxes for 2 reasons. One, both Bush Sr. and Clinton raised taxes. Bush Sr. promised he wouldn't and he did. And the label on democrats is, no matter what they say, will somehow, someway, raise taxes on everyone. So people are looking at the presidents of the past, specifically democrats, and are assuming the worst.

Second, people are wondering how Obama is going to increase all of this government spending without raising everyone's taxes. Meaning, how is he going to pay for it all? We don't have a surplus to work with either.


Those are both decent points. How can Obama afford all of the things he wants to do? In order to have cheaper and possibly even a free healthcare plan, there has to be a way to pay for it. In order to increase welfare and other public programs, there has to be a way to pay for it. For Obama to do that, he has to increase everyone's taxes in order to pay for it.


I'm not a big fan of Mccain's economic plan, but to increase anyone's taxes now can lead to other problems.

If you increase the taxes of big business, especially greatly increase them, people will lose their jobs. Everything for a big business is about the bottom line, and to reach that bottom line, they will have to let go of workers. Promotions and pay raises will also be limited.

People love this notion, but in reality, we need big business because they supply jobs. If we just keep attacking them, yes, it sounds good because most of us aren't them and never will be, but they are the one's who pay our salaries. If they have more money to spend and more room to work with, they can hire more people or at the very least, keep the workers they currently have.

People seem to love attacking big business as if they are the only problem in the country and that they are evil and an enemy. I agree, you shouldn't give such huge tax break to the rich. Possibly a flat tax, or just a small decrease in taxes is enough to give at least the image that big business can go out and spend, but to increase their taxes asks for trouble.


If that diagram is correct, Mccain's plan should almost be the reverse, or straight down the line, giving the same percentage of breaks for everyone.

Both candidates ideals for the economy are imperfect. I guess it's up to everyone as to what philosophy they believe in during these times of trouble.

I am definitely not an economic major, and most people don't really have a clue as to how things work, so I don't mind anyone stating what their beliefs are and as to why. Maybe some feel the president has little to do with the economy, I don't know, but I wouldn't mind reading and learning about other's ideals on the issue.

sKratch
09-27-2008, 04:34 PM
I don't think this has been posted yet. It's from a piece by Fareed Zakaria at Newsweek, who I recall seeing on the Daily Show and enjoying:

"Couric asked her a smart question about the proposed $700 billion bailout of the American financial sector. It was designed to see if Palin understood that the problem in this crisis is that credit and liquidity in the financial system has dried up, and that that's why, in the estimation of Treasury Secretary Hank Paulson and Fed chairman Ben Bernanke, the government needs to step in to buy up Wall Street's most toxic liabilities. Here's the entire exchange:

COURIC: Why isn't it better, Governor Palin, to spend $700 billion helping middle-class families who are struggling with health care, housing, gas and groceries; allow them to spend more and put more money into the economy instead of helping these big financial institutions that played a role in creating this mess?

PALIN: That's why I say I, like every American I'm speaking with, were ill about this position that we have been put in where it is the taxpayers looking to bail out. But ultimately, what the bailout does is help those who are concerned about the health-care reform that is needed to help shore up our economy, helping theóit's got to be all about job creation, too, shoring up our economy and putting it back on the right track. So health-care reform and reducing taxes and reining in spending has got to accompany tax reductions and tax relief for Americans. And trade, we've got to see trade as opportunity, not as a competitive, scary thing. But one in five jobs being created in the trade sector today, we've got to look at that as more opportunity. All those things under the umbrella of job creation. This bailout is a part of that."

Full article:
http://www.newsweek.com/id/161204

Palin actually says nothing. Not a thing. It's a bunch of words that in some cases don't even make sentences, let alone carry any sort of messages. Fucking clown shoes.

Rag Doll
09-27-2008, 08:05 PM
Everything Palin says reminds me of this poor girl: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lj3iNxZ8Dww

Sunny
09-27-2008, 09:23 PM
i'm just waiting for Palin to say "the Iraq" at some point.

Mota Boy
09-27-2008, 09:54 PM
Everything Palin says reminds me of this poor girl: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lj3iNxZ8Dww

You aren't the only one. (http://www.new.facebook.com/share_redirect.php?h=18a91be37ebfcb9e5b149f29c667c caa&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DWLh VGDy-ZXc%26eurl%3Dhttp%3A%2F%2Fcgi.fark.com%2Fcgi%2Ffar k%2Fvidplayer.pl%3FIDLink%3D3901953&sid=37322959988)

Little_Miss_1565
09-27-2008, 11:29 PM
I noticed on the Twitter election page yesterday that "Miss Teen USA" replaced "Palin" as a popular keyword. lulz.

Re: Obama hiking taxes whatever, I really have to wonder how someone NOT hiking SOMEONE'S taxes right now is at all indicative of good judgment and leadership. I mean, 700 billion bailout. Some enormous number on the Iraq War, past and present. Where is this money supposed to come from if not taxes?

IamSam
09-28-2008, 07:19 PM
Where is this money supposed to come from if not taxes?

Cheap Hollywood movie knockoffs.

Not Ozymandias
09-28-2008, 08:29 PM
Upon further review I have decided that I would NOT hit it.

Moose
09-28-2008, 11:15 PM
some of these are pretty interesting...


http://www2.owen.vanderbilt.edu/mara.faccio/FMM_Bailouts.pdf

http://jtf.org/forum_english/index.php?topic=26301.0


http://thinkprogress.org/mccain-flip-flops/

http://www.nelsonguirado.com/index.php/asymmetric/2008/07/09/comprehensive-obama-flip-flop-list


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akLlxxWaJZM&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ioy90nF2anI


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rxoiZdBSi-g&feature=related


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJnkdamqzgo&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-R5Vh5tOWk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_9P15YZrnv0

Little_Miss_1565
09-30-2008, 07:45 AM
Rolling Stone debunks 11 self-propagated myths on Sarah Palin:
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/23140513/the_truth_about_sarah_palin

Very lol.

sKratch
09-30-2008, 04:55 PM
Not that lol. I think a few of those things are a little questionable and many are sort of rewording previous examples.

Moose
09-30-2008, 07:06 PM
...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3p1Wc2NFa3w



...yaaa

XYlophonetreeZ
10-01-2008, 12:17 AM
Wait... and you're saying that the Obama campaign is responsible for charges of sexism because it complimented Palin? WTF? The false sexism charges by the right were related to saying Palin was not up to the job (because the only reason people could be saying that was because she was a woman). I think the campaign's done it right - praise her, sit back and let her hang herself with her own rope.

...I need to stop posting here when I'm drunk. I think the Obama campaign has mostly done a good job, actually, I just think they missed out on an opportunity to criticize the "community organizer" line. Fortunately, that line outraged enough people that it's been ridiculed quite sufficiently in popular culture. It's still a bit ridiculous for Biden to go so far as compliment it, but whatever.

And I think that in a really weird, roundabout, unpredictable way, the initial cries of sexism had something to do with their strategy of not going after her. I think that, had the expectation been set early on for her to take some heat, just from the nature of being in the race, critical behavior towards her might have been treated like less of a big deal later. It's funny how this is all totally irrelevant now (since she's facing tons of criticism now from all directions) yet I felt the need to bring it up anyway when I was drunk. I expressed myself really poorly.

Maureen Dowd wrote a column a couple of days ago about how Obama was a pussy in the debate and should have gone after McCain more aggressively. I didn't really know what debate she was watching. I thought Obama looked better than McCain in many respects without making personal attacks.

Sometimes I still want to side with the opinion that nice-guy politics is never going to work. People like to say, hey, it got him past Hillary, but it really didn't. He was ahead early and her sleazy politics almost propelled her to an improbable comeback (remember how she won New Hampshire?) However, he's enjoying his largest leads in the polls in quite some time, so I'd love to have my doubts erased. If he and Biden perform well in the remaining debates, then I'm pretty confident he's got this in the bag. I would mention the bailout, but I seriously doubt anything could transpire that would make Obama look worse than McCain already has.