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KHWHD
09-11-2008, 03:52 AM
Shall we never forget all those innocent people that lost their lives on this very very sad day today.

R.I.P. :(

JoY
09-11-2008, 04:29 AM
did you know someone who died in the tragedy?:(

like a funeral, a memorial day/service/monument serves the purpose of saying goodbye to loved ones who passed away. it's for people to find closure & peace & mourn over their loss. sometimes it's to honor the memory of an event, but in an event where so many people died, I firmly believe the event itself is subordinate to the deaths of that day. unless, of course, you were there at the event, in which case I can understand perfectly fine if 9/11 means an incredible lot to you & brings back the same traumatising memories every year.

what gets on my nerves, is that people who are in no way victimised by the entire event, mourn, like it's their loss, like it's their trauma. I have a very recent example & it just annoys the hell out of me, when people, who didn't know the person who died, who aren't close to anyone who did know the person, who were no where in the neighbourhood when anything happened, who are lucky enough to not have anything to be sad for, mourn. especially when they do it every. single. year.

in some weird way, I find it kind of disrespectful towards people who are mourning over the loss of their familymember, friend, husband, wife, child, or who still have to process the traumatic experience the memorial service/day/monument stands for. like whatever grief they feel, you feel too, without having been through what they've been through. like their grief is worth less, when you seem to share the same pain, while you haven't lost anyone that's important to you personally, or have images that force themselves onto your retina every year. you don't share the same pain. if you're lucky enough not to have lost anyone on 9/11, if you're lucky enough not to have lived it, then you have every reason to feel relief & be grateful & happy you were spared the experience. just leave the grieving & mourning to people who need to find peace & closure.

Jojan
09-11-2008, 04:48 AM
It's amazing how a government could do such a thing to the ones they should serve.

Blackball_
09-11-2008, 05:19 AM
It's amazing how a government could do such a thing to the ones they should serve.

what good is a government if it cant rile its popoulation up once in a while? ;)

DexterWannabe
09-11-2008, 05:34 AM
Never Forget. Remember 9/11.

http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd114/bhranch1974/9-11-2001.gif

Jakebert
09-11-2008, 06:44 AM
Happy September 11th, everybody!!!!!

nieh
09-11-2008, 06:54 AM
I lol'd at the use of the frowny face in the subject. I'm sorry, I just can't take anything that has that face there seriously.:(:(:(

ninthlayer
09-11-2008, 06:54 AM
http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b46/penguinfites/born2dieeeee.jpg
nvr4gt

ps: postyr9/11fotoz

wheelchairman
09-11-2008, 07:22 AM
I made this like a decade ago.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v220/wheelchairman/911.jpg

Sunny
09-11-2008, 07:23 AM
nvr4gt

ps: postyr9/11fotoz

clicky: from me 2 u <3 (http://tradefallingforyou.ytmnd.com/)

Little_Miss_1565
09-11-2008, 08:37 AM
It always feels really weird in New York every time it rolls around. Everyone is really quiet and even the deli where I get my breakfast has the memorial service on TV. I have trouble seeing ground zero as anything but a mass grave and even walking by it on the way to the Battery Park movie theater is unsettling. I mean, it's been 7 years and even last year they were still finding remains. They'll probably find more still.

But Joy, c'mon. 3,000 people were incinerated on a continent that hasn't seen active combat in any war. People not related directly to the event are going to internalize it in different ways. It is still so raw here that I admit I feel weird when anyone who doesn't live here talks about it, but New York is the center of the universe in a lot of ways.

Sunny
09-11-2008, 08:46 AM
It always feels really weird in New York every time it rolls around. Everyone is really quiet and even the deli where I get my breakfast has the memorial service on TV. I have trouble seeing ground zero as anything but a mass grave and even walking by it on the way to the Battery Park movie theater is unsettling.


that walk (from the subway to the theater) is really, really creepy. especially at night when it's all quiet... rrrg. *heebie jeebies*

Little_Miss_1565
09-11-2008, 08:51 AM
that walk (from the subway to the theater) is really, really creepy. especially at night when it's all quiet... rrrg. *heebie jeebies*

Really creepy. The pit has some seriously bad juju. The worst is when tourists are posing photos in front of it and trying to stick their cameras under the tarps, and especially bad when they're doing it in front of the firehouse.

Splinter[PI]
09-11-2008, 09:14 AM
http://theunheard.files.wordpress.com/2008/03/9-11cigs.jpg

Little_Miss_1565
09-11-2008, 09:18 AM
Wow, how incredibly inappropriate and specious a comparison. WTF.

Endymion
09-11-2008, 09:33 AM
in honor of the day i'm going to an authentic hippie commune potluck dinner tonight!

KHWHD
09-11-2008, 09:45 AM
I wasn't directly involved or knew anyone personally that perished. But why should that matter? 24 Canadians died as well.

I guess some think it's a joke and not as important as it was 7 years ago, but it still bothers me every single time I see those planes hit the towers... and yes, still to this day watching it, I cry. I guess I have a heart or something.

Andy
09-11-2008, 10:00 AM
;1183903']http://theunheard.files.wordpress.com/2008/03/9-11cigs.jpg

They should really say 2001 times the people as 9/11...You know...To make the connection even more tenuous.

Sunny
09-11-2008, 10:22 AM
I wasn't directly involved or knew anyone personally that perished. But why should that matter? 24 Canadians died as well.

I guess some think it's a joke and not as important as it was 7 years ago, but it still bothers me every single time I see those planes hit the towers... and yes, still to this day watching it, I cry. I guess I have a heart or something.

Oh, come on, Shank. i actually know people whose parents/relatives died in 9/11, and of course i'm fucking bothered by it. just because someone pastes a stupid cartoon or picture on a message board doesn't mean they "don't have a heart", for fuck's sake. that's just ridiculous. just because someone doesn't respond all serious to a : :( :( :( 911" thread doesn't make them any less compassionate or mean that you have more of a heart than they do. making light of tragedy is a natural human reaction and a coping mechanism. fyi.

a bunch of my relatives were in concentration camps during the Holocaust. some were killed by the Nazis. that being said, how many Jews can you fit into a Volkswagen?

KHWHD
09-11-2008, 10:25 AM
Oh, come on, Shank. i actually know people whose parents/relatives died in 9/11, and of course i'm fucking bothered by it. just because someone pastes a stupid cartoon or picture on a message board doesn't mean they "don't have a heart", for fuck's sake. that's just ridiculous. just because someone doesn't respond all serious to a : :( :( :( 911" thread doesn't make them any less compassionate or mean that you have more of a heart than they do. making light of tragedy is a natural human reaction and a coping mechanism. fyi.

a bunch of my relatives were in concentration camps during the Holocaust. some were killed by the Nazis. that being said, how many Jews can you fit into a Volkswagen?

I guess I'll just have to stop being so serious from now on huh?

Amiralanal
09-11-2008, 10:32 AM
http://z.about.com/d/politicalhumor/1/0/E/N/cheney_911.jpg

Sunny
09-11-2008, 10:36 AM
I guess I'll just have to stop being so serious from now on huh?

yeah, that would help.

jacknife737
09-11-2008, 10:47 AM
But Joy, c'mon. 3,000 people were incinerated on a continent that hasn't seen active combat in any war. People not related directly to the event are going to internalize it in different ways. It is still so raw here that I admit I feel weird when anyone who doesn't live here talks about it, but New York is the center of the universe in a lot of ways.

Exactly. Especially if you're an American or more specifically a New Yorker, I can certianly see how the day would affect you more then say a European. Even if you didn't directly know anyone that was killed.

F@ BANKZ
09-11-2008, 11:26 AM
Hmm.. I asked somebody what day it was in September it was an they quite plainly said the 11th and it didn't ring a bell.

Joy, I have to say that I appreciate your say-just-what-you-believe attitude.

Offspring-Junkie
09-11-2008, 11:43 AM
, but New York is the center of the universe in a lot of ways.
Really? I didn't know.

Sunny
09-11-2008, 11:52 AM
Really? I didn't know.

have you been living under a rock?

WebDudette
09-11-2008, 03:03 PM
On a lighter note, I'm going to be going to an awesome show tonight.

Rag Doll
09-11-2008, 03:06 PM
We had the huge club fair at my university today. Complete with balloons, free stuff, dancing, general tomfoolery, and loud shitty music. About halfway through, the DJ stopped and was like, "uhhh....today is 9/11. the seven year anniversary of the attacks on the world trade center. we would like to have a moment of silence....(no one listens...)......we would like to have a moment of silence....(silence)....thank you. aaaaand back to the party!"

my mens and i were amused*. especially because we made a bunch of jokes about it for the past like....week now.



*note: we both live within a half an hour of nyc. i remember seeing the smoke from my town afterwards, and i know people that died there. my boyfriend like.....actually saw the planes hit firsthand, irl. he lives that close....

...but, lulzzz, nevar4get!

wheelchairman
09-11-2008, 03:16 PM
;1183903']http://theunheard.files.wordpress.com/2008/03/9-11cigs.jpg


Oh, come on, Shank. i actually know people whose parents/relatives died in 9/11, and of course i'm fucking bothered by it. just because someone pastes a stupid cartoon or picture on a message board doesn't mean they "don't have a heart", for fuck's sake. that's just ridiculous. just because someone doesn't respond all serious to a : :( :( :( 911" thread doesn't make them any less compassionate or mean that you have more of a heart than they do. making light of tragedy is a natural human reaction and a coping mechanism. fyi.

a bunch of my relatives were in concentration camps during the Holocaust. some were killed by the Nazis. that being said, how many Jews can you fit into a Volkswagen?
Didn't you actually have land taken away by the communists? I might be confusing you with Iz, but either way it sounds nice on paper, but the actual physical taking of land must be pretty traumatic. Apparently Gromulka said that he wished Poland could've participated more in the suppression of Praque, which also has a round birthday this year.

That being said, I hate the new anti-smoking attitude. It's so ridiculous. Since when is it any of your concern whether I smoke? (obviously only to the person who posted the picture).

It's also quite strange to note that the overthrowall of whathisname from that one latin american country, the one where Pinochet took over happened today. God what was his name? Not Kirchner, Avienda? Something like that. His wife writes fiction now. Kinda strange that it happened on the same day.

coke_a_holic
09-11-2008, 03:23 PM
Knock knock

Who's there?

9/11

9/11 who?

YOU SAID YOU WOULD NEVR 4GET

jacknife737
09-11-2008, 03:25 PM
Knock knock

Who's there?

9/11

9/11 who?

YOU SAID YOU WOULD NEVR 4GET


I laughed more at this then i should have.

lost_nvrfound
09-11-2008, 03:36 PM
I've never really felt all that much of a connection to 9/11 to be honest. Not until recently anyways. When it happened, moms of kids at my school were swarming the place to bring their kids home to deliver the bad news. But, of all those kids, only one or two actually had family or family friends die.

The reason that day kind of gets to me now though, is because of the EMS class I took over the summer. There we six paramedics that were collaborating to teach the course and one of them worked in New York in 2001. Him talking about that day really made me so sad. He saw the building collapse and kill his friends. I could never imagine witnessing something like that.

He was actually the paramedic in the group that I had the most respect for because he's got so much passion for his job. So that really got to me. Something that had always been so impersonal to me for all these years, now suddenly has meaning to me. I don't know what I would do if I were working at a mass cal alongside my many EMT to be buddies, and have so many of them suddenly be gone. I care a lot for my classmates, after spending the entire summer with them. I just couldn't imagine something like that happening. It'd be even worse to have it happen like he did where he lost friends he had worked with for years.

Alex101
09-11-2008, 04:13 PM
Shall we never forget all those innocent people that lost their lives on this very very sad day today.

R.I.P. :(

I agree, we shall never forget the people who died on this day seven years ago. September 11, 2001 was a very terrible day.

Homer
09-11-2008, 04:30 PM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v606/Yetiman/Animated%20Gifs/tetristowers.gif

Apathy
09-11-2008, 04:36 PM
what gets on my nerves, is that people who are in no way victimised by the entire event, mourn, like it's their loss, like it's their trauma. I have a very recent example & it just annoys the hell out of me, when people, who didn't know the person who died, who aren't close to anyone who did know the person, who were no where in the neighbourhood when anything happened, who are lucky enough to not have anything to be sad for, mourn. especially when they do it every. single. year.



Shouldn't they be allowed to mourn? Because shouldn't they also be victims? Think of how nationalistic America is. Then why wouldn't they mourn?

Marks a bad day for their country ---> Marks a bad day for them.

In the words of Choking Victim - Never mind. I can't do it.

ninthlayer
09-11-2008, 07:32 PM
In the words of Choking Victim - Never mind. I can't do it.
We're born2dieeeeeeeeeeeeeee.

Apathy
09-11-2008, 07:50 PM
Speaking of awesomely shitty music, nice sig.

Sunny
09-11-2008, 08:12 PM
i'm convinced i'm allergic to mickey avalon.

*scratches nervously*

Jakebert
09-11-2008, 08:37 PM
I wasn't directly involved or knew anyone personally that perished. But why should that matter? 24 Canadians died as well.

I guess some think it's a joke and not as important as it was 7 years ago, but it still bothers me every single time I see those planes hit the towers... and yes, still to this day watching it, I cry. I guess I have a heart or something.

Well, to start, my joke was more based around the fact that 9/11 has become just another excuse for companies to get rich on t-shirts with American flags and for people to make empty displays of patriotism that mean nothing. People treat 9/11 like a holiday. If people want to moarn their losses or just moarn for those that they didn't know, that's fine. But I think something like that should be private, and turning it into a holiday makes no sense to me. It makes as much sense as Memorial Day. "Let's remember the sacrafices made by men and women in the military by EATIN' STEAK!"

Also, something I found funny: I have a friend that works in an office, and today they had cake because it was 9/11. NEVAR4GET.

IamSam
09-11-2008, 08:41 PM
I wished someone wished me happy 9/11 day today because they thought it was funny. I replied by saying "Happy Holocaust!" They looked like I shot their dog.


Godwin's Law be damned.

ninthlayer
09-11-2008, 09:05 PM
A kid in my class wished me Happy 9/11 without knowing my history with it, which was funny to me.

Homer
09-11-2008, 09:13 PM
I think everyone in my school forgot about it.

4GOTTEN.

arak0r
09-11-2008, 10:01 PM
so thats why all those flags were half mast

tbh, i dont see the point in crying over a tragedy, especially 7 years ago. i mean if everyone shed a tear for every major human tragedy in the last 10-20 years alone, we'd flood the goddamn planet. which is prolly gonna happen from global warming anyway. shit, the tsunami that happened 3 and a half years after that was far more devestating anyway, dont see people mourning over that every year

Little_Miss_1565
09-11-2008, 10:39 PM
dont see people mourning over that every year

You and I also don't live in Thailand, where I'm pretty sure they do mark the date each year.

Thomas
09-11-2008, 10:49 PM
Not to mention how goddamn close it was to Christmas.

arak0r
09-11-2008, 10:51 PM
i think most people have more imporant issues to deal with than remember such things. its also being used as an excuse to raise nationalism, which im not a fan of, at all.

911 was tragic, lots of good and innocent people lost their lives. the people responsible still havent paid. thats all that really needs be said about it, i dont want it crammed into my skull every day/week/month/year. its pathetic how politics have played around with it


Not to mention how goddamn close it was to Christmas.
..what?

bighead384
09-11-2008, 11:15 PM
A kid in my class wished me Happy 9/11 without knowing my history with it, which was funny to me.

I'm curious. What's your history with it?

Little_Miss_1565
09-11-2008, 11:29 PM
i think most people have more imporant issues to deal with than remember such things. its also being used as an excuse to raise nationalism, which im not a fan of, at all.

911 was tragic, lots of good and innocent people lost their lives. the people responsible still havent paid. thats all that really needs be said about it, i dont want it crammed into my skull every day/week/month/year. its pathetic how politics have played around with it

People say and do ridiculous things in the name of god and country and whatever else, but it's not the fault of the thing itself that others can't be trusted with it. I spent most of my afternoon running errands around the pit and it was pretty much business as usual, though the police officer with the WTC medal who held the door for me coming out of Barnes and Noble felt a lot heavier than it would any other day.

Keyser
09-12-2008, 04:15 AM
You and I also don't live in Thailand, where I'm pretty sure they do mark the date each year.

The only difference is that the media coverage of 9-11 is, even after 7 years still alot more then on other tragedy's, even internationally. Ok, it was a bad day for america, so I can imagine that people there (especially people involved, or living near New York) want to pay attention to it every year.
But if I turn my news on at 9-11 in my country, they spend big parts of the news about it, while things like the tsunami (which killed more of my fellow country men then 9-11) or another record of civilian casualties in wars we cooperate with are placed somewhere in the short news or sometimes even arent mentioned at all. Then I can imagine people say, ''we've seen it enough times, it's sad for the people who are killed and their relatives, but move on please, innocent people are dying almost every day.'' That might be hard to hear for people involved in 9-11, but it goes this way for about every tragedy in the world.

zsk
09-12-2008, 04:27 AM
Shall we never forget all those innocent people that lost their lives on this very very sad day today.

R.I.P. :(

german army is helping usa against alkaida
http://www.dradio.de/images/40930/landscape/

wheelchairman
09-12-2008, 04:36 AM
holy crap the nazis are back!

Little_Miss_1565
09-12-2008, 06:20 AM
But if I turn my news on at 9-11 in my country, they spend big parts of the news about it, while things like the tsunami (which killed more of my fellow country men then 9-11) or another record of civilian casualties in wars we cooperate with are placed somewhere in the short news or sometimes even arent mentioned at all.

Unfortunately, to the news media, Mother Nature is a much less juicy news story than disasters caused by terrorists. I think it's less about the body count and more about what went into it.

T-6005
09-12-2008, 06:24 AM
Unfortunately, to the news media, Mother Nature is a much less juicy news story than disasters caused by terrorists. I think it's less about the body count and more about what went into it.

THANK YOU.

The easy difference is that 911 was an attack, whereas the tsunami was a disaster. Feck.

Keyser
09-12-2008, 07:01 AM
THANK YOU.

The easy difference is that 911 was an attack, whereas the tsunami was a disaster. Feck.

Then still why are reports from war area's (and that goes for ANY war not just the ones started by the USA) get less attention? Civilians getting killed is something terrible, no matter if its in the center of New York or in some faraway village in Afghanistan.

9-11 was a terrible tragedy, yes, but does it deserve almost as much attention as the memorial day of the end of world war 2? I think that goes a little bit too far.

lost_nvrfound
09-12-2008, 07:14 AM
Then still why are reports from war area's (and that goes for ANY war not just the ones started by the USA) get less attention? Civilians getting killed is something terrible, no matter if its in the center of New York or in some faraway village in Afghanistan.

9-11 was a terrible tragedy, yes, but does it deserve almost as much attention as the memorial day of the end of world war 2? I think that goes a little bit too far.

Yeas, but it wasn't an attack on the impenetrable, invincible, all-important, no. 1, ay okay America. Pearl Harbor was more than 60 years ago, and we still hear about that every december.

EDIT: I just realized I typed september rather than December. OOPS!

Keyser
09-12-2008, 07:20 AM
Yeas, but it wasn't an attack on the impenetrable, invincible, all-important, no. 1, ay okay America.


Yeah I guess that's it. Thats probaly why alot people make fun of it too.

Little_Miss_1565
09-12-2008, 07:21 AM
Yeas, but it wasn't an attack on the impenetrable, invincible, all-important, no. 1, ay okay America. Pearl Harbor was more than 60 years ago, and we still hear about that every september.

You're completely missing the point, but that was a really good job of oversimplification and derision.


Then still why are reports from war area's (and that goes for ANY war not just the ones started by the USA) get less attention? Civilians getting killed is something terrible, no matter if its in the center of New York or in some faraway village in Afghanistan.

9-11 was a terrible tragedy, yes, but does it deserve almost as much attention as the memorial day of the end of world war 2? I think that goes a little bit too far.

A war is even less of a story than a terrorist attack. And also, New York is a city that kind of goes beyond being American. It is a truly international city, where the deli guy in my old neighborhood left his entire family behind in Yemen so he could open his deli, make my breakfast, and send the money home to his girls. He's doing so well now he opened a second shop. Between my apartment and the nearest express train stop, I can stop and chat in Spanish with someone who calls me "Buena" and narrowly dodge getting bowled over by a young Chinese boy on a scooter. New York also has the magic of so much legend behind it, as the place where so many of a country's poor have immigrated with nothing and grew to own the place.

WW2 was also ages ago now. When we have grandkids, I'm sure the 9/11 memorials will be getting less and less and less attention. But right now, the wounds are still so incredibly raw that yes, there are going to be a lot of public displays, and yes, international media will pay attention because of the reasons I listed above.

Keyser
09-12-2008, 07:36 AM
A war is even less of a story than a terrorist attack. And also, New York is a city that kind of goes beyond being American. It is a truly international city, where the deli guy in my old neighborhood left his entire family behind in Yemen so he could open his deli, make my breakfast, and send the money home to his girls. He's doing so well now he opened a second shop. Between my apartment and the nearest express train stop, I can stop and chat in Spanish with someone who calls me "Buena" and narrowly dodge getting bowled over by a young Chinese boy on a scooter. New York also has the magic of so much legend behind it, as the place where so many of a country's poor have immigrated with nothing and grew to own the place.


New York (and the US in general) might have alot nationalities, but to the outside world they're still Americans, no matter if their origins are Irish, English, Chinese, Arab or Zimbabwian or something.

Besides that, the memorials they keep (at least from what I see on TV) are full of American nationalist elements. Far from something you expect of something that happened in a city as international as New York. This is also a reason that causes people who are not from the US to take distance from these memorials.


WW2 was also ages ago now. When we have grandkids, I'm sure the 9/11 memorials will be getting less and less and less attention. But right now, the wounds are still so incredibly raw that yes, there are going to be a lot of public displays, and yes, international media will pay attention because of the reasons I listed above.

It is something big for America yeah, I have no problem if you remember it every year, or even still do in 100 years. I was more reffering to overhere in Europe, why people feel ''less'' connected to it then Americans do.

And on a side note: thats not America's fault but the fault of our own media.

Rag Doll
09-12-2008, 08:00 AM
In some areas of the US they actually say "Happy 9/11"? I've never heard of such a thing. Maybe I just live too close to NYC. Weird.

Lodat225
09-12-2008, 08:04 AM
The principal said "Happy September 11th, Aviators." over the speaker phone.

And my Communications teacher was acting all worried for our youth because we have become "complacent."

Oh well, it honestly doesn't affect me. I feel bad for the ones who lost someone dear to them in the attacks, but it never really impacted me.

Tralalala.

KHWHD
09-12-2008, 08:05 AM
In some areas of the US they actually say "Happy 9/11"? I've never heard of such a thing. Maybe I just live too close to NYC. Weird.

I've never heard it said here either. It's a very somber day here in Ontario. Not really sure why some people think that because you're not from NY or don't live in NY or the states you shouldn't be saddened by the day and the events. There is tons of news coverage here. Yesterday morning I saw at least 5 channels of the name's being read. And they read every single name, from start to finish.

Little_Miss_1565
09-12-2008, 08:23 AM
Besides that, the memorials they keep (at least from what I see on TV) are full of American nationalist elements. Far from something you expect of something that happened in a city as international as New York. This is also a reason that causes people who are not from the US to take distance from these memorials.

The memorial I saw on my TV had American flags, sure, but also kazillions of flags from around the world, since nationals from 90 countries lost citizens in the attack. As well, each two-person shift reading the names was a family member of an American killed as well as a representative of a country that lost a citizen. And yeah, there was more of a New Yorker-centric take on the memorial, but remember, it's in our backyard. Like Sunny and I were saying, you can't walk around downtown without running into ground zero.


It is something big for America yeah, I have no problem if you remember it every year, or even still do in 100 years. I was more reffering to overhere in Europe, why people feel ''less'' connected to it then Americans do.

And on a side note: thats not America's fault but the fault of our own media.

And no one ever said that anyone in Europe should feel more connected to it. If it's the fault of your own media, why do you feel like it gives you license to say shitty things about Americans?


The principal said "Happy September 11th, Aviators." over the speaker phone.

Whoa...wtf?!

batfish
09-12-2008, 08:25 AM
It is something big for America yeah, I have no problem if you remember it every year, or even still do in 100 years. I was more reffering to overhere in Europe, why people feel ''less'' connected to it then Americans do.

And on a side note: thats not America's fault but the fault of our own media.

Where do you live? I live in England and didn't even realise it was 11 September till i read this thread. There was a small paragraph in the newspaper about something connected with 9/11, and an hour's TV programme about people in a hotel near the towers on 9/11, but no memorials.

But at least once a week there's a programme about WW2, the British can't seem to get enough of it.

Keyser
09-12-2008, 08:33 AM
I'm from the Netherlands, a country that likes to follow the USA as much as possible.


And no one ever said that anyone in Europe should feel more connected to it. If it's the fault of your own media, why do you feel like it gives you license to say shitty things about Americans?

Please tell me where I said shitty things about Americans? I said what I think about media coverage of those attacks overhere, and if you dont like it, you should skip my posts then.

Sunny
09-12-2008, 08:39 AM
i feel like some people in this thread are being deliberately dense, either for the sake of disagreeing or being all I'M SO KEWL FUCK AMERICA :cool::eek::mad:

if you don't see how a terrorist attack on New York is different from a terrorist attack on a little village in Afghanistan, then you're either deliberately oblivious or just a total moron. which one is it? =)

New York is an American city, but people from all over the world have very strong ties to it, be it through family, business, culture or personal aspirations. you can deny it until you're blue in the face, but it's a fucking fact. it's not just any American city, and your bewilderment really shows a great deal of ignorance.

I'm currently in Dublin, and pretty much everyone I've spoken to was all like "my cousin/uncle/friend lives in New York" or "I studied/worked/went shopping in New York last year" or whatever. A mere mention of the city provoked an emotional reaction. same in France. same in Poland. same everyfuckingwhere else you go. don't tell me people are this connected to other foreign cities - i won't believe you. no fucking wonder the aftershocks of 911 were felt all over Europe - NYC is a major international center, a legend and a cultural symbol. an attack on NYC wields FAR greater symbolic, political and emotional significance than an attack on a little village or a less known American city, for crying out loud.

*headdesk*

T-6005
09-12-2008, 08:42 AM
Then still why are reports from war area's (and that goes for ANY war not just the ones started by the USA) get less attention? Civilians getting killed is something terrible, no matter if its in the center of New York or in some faraway village in Afghanistan.

9-11 was a terrible tragedy, yes, but does it deserve almost as much attention as the memorial day of the end of world war 2? I think that goes a little bit too far.

That's simple - it's a media bias. The civilians killed or maimed accidentally by American troops are still reported on in the Middle East, just like Lebanon's Hezbollah-friendly channels still talk about the Israeli's large civilian deathcount in bombing southern Beirut without admitting that car bombing might not be a viable form of expression.

Every country's major news source is to some extent going to be skewed one way or the other. Just because you don't hear about it doesn't mean it's not being reported somewhere, though. Independent news exist in most countries and most prevalently on the internet.

Little_Miss_1565
09-12-2008, 08:48 AM
Please tell me where I said shitty things about Americans? I said what I think about media coverage of those attacks overhere, and if you dont like it, you should skip my posts then.

Here:


Yeah I guess that's it. Thats probaly why alot people make fun of it too.

Saying I should skip your posts is a cop-out. If you can't take it when someone challenges something you say, then you should probably think twice about saying it.

And go Sunny.

lost_nvrfound
09-12-2008, 08:49 AM
You're completely missing the point, but that was a really good job of oversimplification and derision.

While it may have been completely oversimplified and derisive, my tone doesn't change the bit of truth in it.

Thats part of why the attack still gets so much international attention. The U.S. has been seen for so long as safe, as a big powerful country thats not susceptible to international terrorists and the fear of them (leaving out the Red Scare because nothing ever actually happened). The whole world watched that day as thousands of innocent people were killed in a country thats supposed to be safe.

Sunny
09-12-2008, 08:53 AM
While it may have been completely oversimplified and derisive, my tone doesn't change the bit of truth in it.


perhaps if you didn't put so much effort into burying your point in a barrage of simplistic, juvenile rhetoric, we would have an easier time addressing your actual argument.

just a thought.

Little_Miss_1565
09-12-2008, 08:59 AM
While it may have been completely oversimplified and derisive, my tone doesn't change the bit of truth in it.

Thats part of why the attack still gets so much international attention. The U.S. has been seen for so long as safe, as a big powerful country thats not susceptible to international terrorists and the fear of them (leaving out the Red Scare because nothing ever actually happened). The whole world watched that day as thousands of innocent people were killed in a country thats supposed to be safe.

Like Sunny said, no one disagrees with this notion but you said it in such a way that we couldn't take you seriously, which would be a problem if you were seriously trying to convince us of something. You only get the respect you give out.

Keyser
09-12-2008, 09:32 AM
if you don't see how a terrorist attack on New York is different from a terrorist attack on a little village in Afghanistan, then you're either deliberately oblivious or just a total moron. which one is it? =)

If you talk in the matters of human life its as bad no matter where anyone dies. New York is symbolically bigger tough, thats why the huge aftermath directly after 9-11 and the following months. There's no denying that alot people are someway connected to New York. But it's stupid to say that outside the USA most of the people still have the same feeling about it as they had in the weeks/month's after it happened. That feeling is fading away more quickly here then in the US itself. That's why I dont see the use of yearly huge media coverage on it on our TV, but like I said, thats OUR media's fault, not America's.

I like to visit London (also a big city) alot, know alot people there, they got hit by a terrorist attack aswell. I found it (and still find it) horrible what happened there. But I'm not going to have a special moment for it every year. Its terrible, and its sad for the people who died and their relatives, but keeping memorials for myself personaly I really don't see the use for it. Tough it is one of my favourite cities, I'm not related to it as the people who live there/ lost people there. A yearly memorial? Fine, as long as it is for the people who were hit the most by the attacks.

Alot people in Europe have some connections to the New York, but as much people as you say? I doubt that. And if you want to find it out you're welcome to come over here, I can show you tons of people that arent related to it. And with a relation to a city I think thats something more then ''I just went shopping there''. I personally would find it VERY disrespectfull if I went to someone who lost a relative there and then say to them ''yeah I went shopping there so it is as terrible to me as it is to you''.

Politically, culturally New York is something huge, an attack on it is something huge. But for people not directly related to it, the feeling they had directly after the attacks fades away much quicker then for people who are directly related to it.

But sorry if youre calling me a moron because I equate the loss of human life in New York to some village in Afghanistan it tells alot about your arrogance.


@little miss:
That was not to make fun of American people. But if someone says ''can't beat the good old America'' and a attack happens on 2 of its most symbolic buildings, probaly its most symbolic city, it is easy for the ''bashers'' to make fun of America.

Little_Miss_1565
09-12-2008, 09:46 AM
Keyser, that is an incredibly specious thing to say. Are you going to tell me next that you think all Americans want to watch Baywatch all day long because a character from Friends did? You're taking what a small segment of any population might say and magnifying it onto an entire country.

And again, no one is saying you should hold 9/11 in the same regard as anyone who was directly affected. You don't have to do that in order to let memorials happen as they will in peace for those who do need those memorials to happen. No one is strapping you into your chair to take part.

Sunny
09-12-2008, 09:51 AM
If you talk in the matters of human life its as bad no matter where anyone dies. New York is symbolically bigger tough, thats why the huge aftermath directly after 9-11 and the following months. There's no denying that alot people are someway connected to New York. But it's stupid to say that outside the USA most of the people still have the same feeling about it as they had in the weeks/month's after it happened. That feeling is fading away more quickly here then in the US itself. That's why I dont see the use of yearly huge media coverage on it on our TV, but like I said, thats OUR media's fault, not America's.

I like to visit London (also a big city) alot, know alot people there, they got hit by a terrorist attack aswell. I found it (and still find it) horrible what happened there. But I'm not going to have a special moment for it every year. Its terrible, and its sad for the people who died and their relatives, but keeping memorials for myself personaly I really don't see the use for it. Tough it is one of my favourite cities, I'm not related to it as the people who live there/ lost people there. A yearly memorial? Fine, as long as it is for the people who were hit the most by the attacks.

Alot people in Europe have some connections to the New York, but as much people as you say? I doubt that. And if you want to find it out you're welcome to come over here, I can show you tons of people that arent related to it. And with a relation to a city I think thats something more then ''I just went shopping there''. I personally would find it VERY disrespectfull if I went to someone who lost a relative there and then say to them ''yeah I went shopping there so it is as terrible to me as it is to you''.

Politically, culturally New York is something huge, an attack on it is something huge. But for people not directly related to it, the feeling they had directly after the attacks fades away much quicker then for people who are directly related to it.

But sorry if youre calling me a moron because I equate the loss of human life in New York to some village in Afghanistan it tells alot about your arrogance.


what does it say about *my* arrogance exactly? yes, i do believe acting like you're completely unaware of political and cultural factors makes you look like a moron. loss of human life is always the same - in principle. however, there are many other factors that affect our judgment of a situation where human life is lost. as a culture, we react to terrorism differently than we do to war; we view murder and executing criminals as separate issues; we mourn the loss of our own more than we mourn the loss of people we never knew. similarly, a tragedy in a village few people had ties to will not impact the world anywhere as much as a tragedy in a huge political, cultural, financial urban center. jesus h. christ.

i'm not saying it's right, but by equating the two you're demonstrating an astounding extent of ignorance and ignoring a lot of key factors. if that's your intent, knock yourself out, but don't expect to be taken seriously. that's all.


Alot people in Europe have some connections to the New York, but as much people as you say? I doubt that. And if you want to find it out you're welcome to come over here, I can show you tons of people that arent related to it. And with a relation to a city I think thats something more then ''I just went shopping there''. I personally would find it VERY disrespectfull if I went to someone who lost a relative there and then say to them ''yeah I went shopping there so it is as terrible to me as it is to you''.

you can doubt it all you want. i'm telling you what my experience is; whether you believe me or not is irrelevant. i know many people who don't have a personal connection to New York, and your "come here i show u" argument is rather silly. the point is, NYC IS a city that has had a tremendous amount of influence on a lot of people. if you're denying that, honestly, why are we even talking?

it's not that going shopping somewhere forges a deep personal connection between the shopper and the place. thanks for conveniently singling out a tiny part of my argument in order to avoid the bigger picture, really! no one is saying 911 was as terrible to Europeans as it was to Americans; similarly, 911 wasn't as terrible to people outside of New York as it was to Manhattan residents. the point is, MANY people are familiar with New York and have personal ties to it, be it on a superficial level or to a more profound extent. those ties make the tragedy in New York much more palpable to the rest of the world.

if someone blows up a tiny village in a place i've never been to, i will most likely be upset over it for a brief period of time. if someone blows up a city i know, i will instantly visualize the streets i know, the shops i visited, the people i met, triggering an emotional reaction... even if i just went shopping there once or twice. familiarity makes the emotional impact of a tragedy that much stronger.

Keyser
09-12-2008, 10:01 AM
Keyser, that is an incredibly specious thing to say. Are you going to tell me next that you think all Americans want to watch Baywatch all day long because a character from Friends did? You're taking what a small segment of any population might say and magnifying it onto an entire country.
No. But I'm pretty sure that you're aware that there's something like a ''stereotype redneck American''. Some image that some people in this world like to have of Americans. The quoting of that person was just a random example, I personally didn't mean anything with it on behalf of myself, but I'm sure you understand that if someone writes things in the same line of what was quoted, the reaction on it can exist from for example those silly gif images posted here. After all thats where they can ''hurt'' the stereotype figure.


And again, no one is saying you should hold 9/11 in the same regard as anyone who was directly affected. You don't have to do that in order to let memorials happen as they will in peace for those who do need those memorials to happen. No one is strapping you into your chair to take part.

I know, but somehow I have a feeling that the symbolism of these huge memorials are used for things that arent directly related to 9-11. And I find that pretty disrespectfull towards the people who lost their lifes there.

Little_Miss_1565
09-12-2008, 10:15 AM
No. But I'm pretty sure that you're aware that there's something like a ''stereotype redneck American''. Some image that some people in this world like to have of Americans. The quoting of that person was just a random example, I personally didn't mean anything with it on behalf of myself, but I'm sure you understand that if someone writes things in the same line of what was quoted, the reaction on it can exist from for example those silly gif images posted here. After all thats where they can ''hurt'' the stereotype figure.

And I'm sure you're likewise aware of the stereotype of the snotty European. If I'm not exhibiting the symptoms of a stereotype, I'm going to expect that it not be used against me in a discussion. It's a straw dog.


I know, but somehow I have a feeling that the symbolism of these huge memorials are used for things that arent directly related to 9-11. And I find that pretty disrespectfull towards the people who lost their lifes there.There are some 9/11 memorials that do not serve the interest of those who lost family. The one televised live from the pit, however, is not one of them, considering it's being held in a place where someone's dead uncle was never found and was reduced to a pile of ash sitting in the Fresh Kills Landfill in Staten Island, or being breathed in by everyone who was there. It's the closest to a proper funeral service a lot of family members got.

Sunny
09-12-2008, 10:16 AM
No. But I'm pretty sure that you're aware that there's something like a ''stereotype redneck American''. Some image that some people in this world like to have of Americans.

yes, we call those people "ignorant dimwits".

surely you must be aware of the unshowered, hairy, wimpy European stereotype? it's "an image some people in this world like to have of Europeans", and that doesn't make it any less stupid, ignorant or innacurate.

Sunny
09-12-2008, 10:17 AM
And I'm sure you're likewise aware of the stereotype of the snotty European. If I'm not exhibiting the symptoms of a stereotype, I'm going to expect that it not be used against me in a discussion. It's a straw dog.


oh dammit you beat me to it! *scowls*

Keyser
09-12-2008, 10:25 AM
what does it say about *my* arrogance exactly? yes, i do believe acting like you're completely unaware of political and cultural factors makes you look like a moron. loss of human life is always the same - in principle. however, there are many other factors that affect our judgment of a situation where human life is lost. as a culture, we react to terrorism differently than we do to war; we view murder and executing criminals as separate issues; we mourn the loss of our own more than we mourn the loss of people we never knew. similarly, a tragedy in a village few people had ties to will not impact the world anywhere as much as a tragedy in a huge political, cultural, financial urban center. jesus h. christ.

i'm not saying it's right, but by equating the two you're demonstrating an astounding extent of ignorance and ignoring a lot of key factors. if that's your intent, knock yourself out, but don't expect to be taken seriously. that's all.

Well then, where's the problem? I pointed out the differences between a faraway village and a major city didnt I? I said that I'm aware of the meaning of the influence of New York didnt I? But still you call me a moron?

The arrogance comment was just pointed out in case you didn't equate the loss of human life (I've discussed with people before who said they believe ''their'' lifes are more valuable then ''others''), but appearently you do so that comment doesnt stand anymore.

The whole ''I talked to the people and they were all connected'' argument is as empty as the ''come here and see for yourself'' argument. So its useless to go any further into this.

New York is a cultural, financial, political capitol of the world and that was damaged in the attacks, however, I believe that the tragic loss of those 3000 people weights more then the other things, that's why I have my doubts about a huge media circus memorial thing. But if it makes you feel better, well can't deceide anything for you.

NickyNineDoors
09-12-2008, 10:29 AM
instead of ironman I got that 9/11 docudrama
does this mean that obama will work hand in hand with state farm insurance agents to recoup the losses ?

Keyser
09-12-2008, 10:36 AM
And I'm sure you're likewise aware of the stereotype of the snotty European. If I'm not exhibiting the symptoms of a stereotype, I'm going to expect that it not be used against me in a discussion. It's a straw dog.

Yeah but I never used it against you didn't I? It wasnt even directed at you. It was a comment to that ''stereotype'' comment that the other user posted.


surely you must be aware of the unshowered, hairy, wimpy European stereotype? it's "an image some people in this world like to have of Europeans", and that doesn't make it any less stupid, ignorant or innacurate.

I'm sorry, all I said is that comments like ''OMG AMEWICA TEH B3ST ON TEH PLANET'' are likely to responded with things like those harsh gif images (that it provided ammo for the bashers). There was no real further thought behind it.

Little_Miss_1565
09-12-2008, 11:46 AM
Yeah but I never used it against you didn't I? It wasnt even directed at you. It was a comment to that ''stereotype'' comment that the other user posted.

Please look up the definition of the logical fallacy called the straw dog, sometimes the straw man.

Keyser
09-12-2008, 12:02 PM
Please look up the definition of the logical fallacy called the straw dog, sometimes the straw man.

If you make an arrogant comment like ''we are number 1'', it is likely that your opponents will try to hit you were it hurts most. In this case those gif images.

That's what I posted, what of this do you not understand? It's not a part of the debate and its neither used as a statement to undermine things you said.

Little_Miss_1565
09-12-2008, 12:07 PM
If you make an arrogant comment like ''we are number 1'', it is likely that your opponents will try to hit you were it hurts most. In this case those gif images.

That's what I posted, what of this do you not understand? It's not a part of the debate and its neither used as a statement to undermine things you said.

What you're not understanding is that those gif images were made by Americans, not "opponents." Sunny already established in this thread that people make light of tragic situations as a coping mechanism. Your argument is still a straw dog.

Keyser
09-12-2008, 12:16 PM
What you're not understanding is that those gif images were made by Americans, not "opponents." Sunny already established in this thread that people make light of tragic situations as a coping mechanism. Your argument is still a straw dog.

Maybe gif images is too specific. Lots of them are without hatefull messages behind it. But it wouldnt surprise me if there are some that have a hatefull thought. And with opponents im not reffering to a country or people or something. Example: one person who feels personally attached to 9-11, but on the same time acts like a redneck. Then an opponent (that could be anyone that opposes the views of the person) hits that person at the place where it hurts most, that can be with gif images, messages etc.

Sunny
09-12-2008, 01:00 PM
um. so. what you're trying to say that displays of American national pride will trigger knee-jerk reactions in some opponents?

...and?

Keyser
09-12-2008, 01:11 PM
um. so. what you're trying to say that displays of American national pride will trigger knee-jerk reactions in some opponents?

...and?

Reaction to a post on a few pages back. Wasn't a part of our discussion.

T-6005
09-12-2008, 01:40 PM
*Oh, if I only had a brain...*

Sunny
09-12-2008, 01:53 PM
The whole ''I talked to the people and they were all connected'' argument is as empty as the ''come here and see for yourself'' argument. So its useless to go any further into this.

New York is a cultural, financial, political capitol of the world and that was damaged in the attacks, however, I believe that the tragic loss of those 3000 people weights more then the other things, that's why I have my doubts about a huge media circus memorial thing. But if it makes you feel better, well can't deceide anything for you.

1. it doesn't make me feel better, and i haven't seen any of the 911 memorial services aside from the very first one. so, um, no.

2. your "come to my country and i will show you" argument is nothing like mine, actually. i brought up anecdotal evidence and what i know from *personal experience*. i never claimed EVERYONE in Europe has personal ties to New York. consequently, your offer to introduce me to people in your country who don't have such ties is irrelevant and ridiculous, seeing as i never denied their existence in the first place.

christ jesus.

Smash_Returns
09-12-2008, 01:56 PM
My uncle moved out of New York, back to the Twin Cities a month before 9/11. Also, a couple of years ago, when the I-35 bridge collapsed in the Twin Cities, my uncle was driving on it just an hour before the collapse. Disaster follows him around. But is just a step behind.

Keyser
09-12-2008, 02:30 PM
1. it doesn't make me feel better, and i haven't seen any of the 911 memorial services aside from the very first one. so, um, no.

2. your "come to my country and i will show you" argument is nothing like mine, actually. i brought up anecdotal evidence and what i know from *personal experience*. i never claimed EVERYONE in Europe has personal ties to New York. consequently, your offer to introduce me to people in your country who don't have such ties is irrelevant and ridiculous, seeing as i never denied their existence in the first place.

christ jesus.

How exactly is it different?


and pretty much everyone I've spoken to was all like "my cousin/uncle/friend lives in New York" or "I studied/worked/went shopping in New York last year" or whatever.

My ''offer'' was more to show my personal experience as a counterweight to yours. Yes, you're not saying everyone has personal ties, but from what you write here I get the idea that there is indeed a large majority from here that has ties with NY. And I NEVER said that you denied the existence of people that have no ties to NY, that's something YOU made up out of the ''come see my country'' comment.

arak0r
09-12-2008, 08:27 PM
im just gonna skip responding to all that pointless drivel on the last page and say, simply, i cant stand nationalism, and 911 just seems like a huge excuse to parade and roll in nationalism, and thus i dont like all the crap about it.

ninthlayer
09-12-2008, 09:05 PM
Sunny, I'll show you the "people in my country".

And by that I mean "Let's take off our pants and hang out."

iPunk247
09-13-2008, 02:24 AM
http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/kk1/Spades57/9-11.jpg

Hombre
09-15-2008, 09:40 PM
;1183903']http://theunheard.files.wordpress.com/2008/03/9-11cigs.jpg
Bad joke....

JoY
09-18-2008, 04:41 AM
But Joy, c'mon. 3,000 people were incinerated on a continent that hasn't seen active combat in any war. People not related directly to the event are going to internalize it in different ways. It is still so raw here that I admit I feel weird when anyone who doesn't live here talks about it, but New York is the center of the universe in a lot of ways.

I understand how the 11th of september was upsetting for more people than just the direct victims of the whole event. an attack on your country, on a city that carries so much national & international importance.. you name it, that must be quite upsetting for an entire nation. but at some point, after several years, as a nation you should come to the understanding, in my opinion, that there are people out there, who were far more personally involved (better yet, who were actually personally involved), who deserve space to mourn, find closure, peace, say goodbye, et cetera. to me it's a matter of respect.

I know examples don't make a good argument, but to give you one anyway; about two weeks ago a 21 year old girl of my fraternity/sorority died of a heart attack. there was a memorial book you could sign placed in the fraternity/sorority building, that everyone could sign in honor of the memories of her life. a friend of mine rushed over to sign it, so I asked her if she knew the girl & showed her my sympathy. she replied that she didn't know the girl, but that she was so sad this tragedy had happened within her fraternity/sorority, she felt involved. that's what it comes down to.

no, I don't think that's fair. I don't think that's respectful towards the friends & family, who are actually left behind with a gaping hole of grief. that friend of mine has absolutely *nothing* to be sad for & that's a freakin' blessing. maybe it sounds heartless, but she doesn't have the right to feel grief. I think it'd be a lot more respectful, if she, & everybody else who had never met the girl in their life, would take a step back for friends & family to come together in honor of her memory.

a lot of the times I feel like we live in a society that likes to victimise itself & that craves the attention & drama that comes with the victim-status. victims are often seen as heroes in our society, because they're challenged to & trying to overcome a difficult time. their grief & pain is a very personal matter, though. you don't show that on Oprah for everyone to gorge on like a bunch of vultures. that's ridiculous. because someone's husband, child, or sister died in an attack on the nation, it doesn't mean the entire nation can chip in the sadness for the loss of that person. you can't honestly, in all seriousness, with all due respect, say that you're personally affected too, that you're mourning too, like your life was turned upside-down like the life of the actual victims. personally, I think that's just disrespectful.

edit; don't know if I explained myself any clearer now than I did before. :/


I wasn't directly involved or knew anyone personally that perished. But why should that matter? 24 Canadians died as well.

I guess some think it's a joke and not as important as it was 7 years ago, but it still bothers me every single time I see those planes hit the towers... and yes, still to this day watching it, I cry. I guess I have a heart or something.

it's not that I don't have a heart. & I'm sure that you firmly believe it's respectful to share that moment of grief, pain & silence together with the actual victims of 9/11.


Shouldn't they be allowed to mourn? Because shouldn't they also be victims? Think of how nationalistic America is. Then why wouldn't they mourn?


that's kind of exactly my problem with the whole deal. 1+1 makes 2, not 1. the entire nation didn't get personally victimised altogether that day. those were individuals that died/lived that day, with friends & family. though it was an attack on the nation, we're still talking about people here, actual individuals.


shit, the tsunami that happened 3 and a half years after that was far more devestating anyway, dont see people mourning over that every year

I wanted to say the exact same thing 1565 already pointed out.
the fact such an event is easier for the media to exploit, seeing the region & the nature of the tragedy (being an attack), the fact it feeds everybody's lust for drama, really really doesn't make it right, though.

The Search Button
09-18-2008, 04:45 AM
I find this thread disgraceful, as a whole.

Rutegard
09-18-2008, 04:55 AM
never forget
never forgive

huuum

too much sweeney todd to me

Little_Miss_1565
09-18-2008, 07:51 AM
Joy, the way I see it, NYC will be holding services every year on 9/11 until the day the ocean rises and puts the city under water. And then they will probably row boats out to the site anyway and keep doing it. Seven years later there is almost no closure for a lot of people, and it's only going to get worse once rebuilding really gets underway. Rebuilding is severely delayed mainly because no one can agree on the best way to memorialize the attack, because no one is thinking rationally. Emotions are still too unresolved.

So they're going to keep holding the services. Ultimately, we can't control what sort of coverage the rest of the world gives to it. And as you pointed out, people who don't really have a good sense of what tragedy is or means tend to latch on to the pain and suffering of others as a way to deal with emotions that they haven't yet really explored. But I think you'd agree that a young woman dying too soon of a heart attack and a terrorist attack on civillians has an incredibly large gap in scope.

JoY
09-18-2008, 08:16 AM
of course they will keep holding services, & so they should. actually, in my first post I pretty much said the exact oposite of that people shouldn't hold services in honor of the memory of the event & loved ones they've lost. my point is, those services aren't meant for everyone to feel a victim & not everybody should have to mourn over the tragedy that is 9/11, simply because it's not everybody's tragedy.

how you got to thinking I was comparing the natural death of a 21 year old to 9-fucking-11 is also really beyond me. really really really.

edit;
what we learn in medicine, is never ever EVER to tell a patient "I understand". because you don't understand, that's what makes it disrespectful. that's kind of the point. don't pretend you understand what victims of 9/11 go through & that you feel it too. you just don't.
editedit; uhh, sorry for that. sometimes I really can't type. :[

Little_Miss_1565
09-18-2008, 09:09 AM
Ah, k, I get it better now after a few more cups of coffee. Srry.

What I meant by the difference in scope is that something more huge is more likely to have ripple effects that are genuine and not an affect. I was halfway across the country from NYC when it happened and it felt like we were at war (I guess we were/are?). I did have a direct connection to it though as my aunt works in lower Manhattan and has lived here for 30 years.

But yeah. I feel like a lot of the effusive displays of emotion aren't really about the triggering event itself but rather more like the internal emotional state of the person displaying it. Kind of like how a record review often says more about the writer than the album they're talking about.

Llamas
09-18-2008, 01:23 PM
But yeah. I feel like a lot of the effusive displays of emotion aren't really about the triggering event itself but rather more like the internal emotional state of the person displaying it. Kind of like how a record review often says more about the writer than the album they're talking about.
OMG STOP USING A THESAURUS LOLOOL


But honestly, I think I mostly agree with Joy in this thread.

KHWHD
09-18-2008, 01:25 PM
OMG STOP USING A THESAURUS LOLOOL


But honestly, I think I mostly agree with Joy in this thread.

Can't say I see any words in there that would need one?

Llamas
09-18-2008, 03:31 PM
Can't say I see any words in there that would need one?

...I was kidding. And now looking back, the only word that I could see that isn't completely common might be "effusive"... it was more the sentence structure. But yeah, again... kidding. :P

Sunny
09-18-2008, 03:40 PM
*facepalm*

Shank, you responded with the "thesaurus" line to someone whose most intimidating word choices were "fundamentally", "obsolete" and "geneticist". hence, llamas' joke about the word "effusive" (which is far more obscure than the aforementioned ones...) is absolutely spot-on.

Llamas
09-18-2008, 03:42 PM
*facepalm*

Shank, you responded with the "thesaurus" line to someone whose most intimidating word choices were "fundamentally", "obsolete" and "geneticist". hence, llamas' joke about the word "effusive" (which is far more obscure than the aforementioned ones...) is absolutely spot-on.

Haha, I didn't even realize that was Shank who made that post. That makes this situation even funnier...

KHWHD
09-18-2008, 03:45 PM
I was being sarcastic. :rolleyes: But I guess people aren't sarcastic around here.

0r4ng3
09-18-2008, 05:12 PM
Nope, never.

So wait. Am I reading this thread wrong or did it suddenly become disrespectful to be sorry for the loss of others?

Llamas
09-18-2008, 05:40 PM
What bugs me is that I think people pretend not to be able to differentiate between something that they're actually victims of, and feeling bad about something like 9/11. For example, when 9/11 happened, it was scary to me. I didn't like that it happened, but I didn't mourn. I thought the constant moments of silence and stuff were silly. I didn't really get attached, and didn't involve myself in the huge "we feel terrible about 9/11" events, but I acknowledged the tragedy and basically moved on. When the bridge fell last year in Minneapolis, though, I felt awful. I knew people who were on the bridge when it fell, people who'd just gotten over it, were waiting to get on it... not to mention the fact that I lived blocks away from it and drove over it multiple times a day. It hit me way harder than 9/11, though it was a much smaller/less awful catastrophe. When I saw all these groups on Facebook come up from people all over the country about the bridge tragedy, I actually found myself annoyed. When I heard it was on national (and even international) news programs, and people started to act like this really affected their lives, it irritated me. So many people just seem to throw on the mask of pretending these things really affect them, possibly so that it makes them look compassionate. They act as though something far away that is terrible but doesn't actually affect them, is the same as something personal. I don't know if I'm making any sense at all... this made more sense in my head before I started writing it.

KHWHD
09-18-2008, 05:54 PM
I think what others were trying to say is that 9/11 was a terrorist attack. Not an act of God, like others were comparing. There is a difference.

JoY
09-19-2008, 03:20 AM
Nope, never.

So wait. Am I reading this thread wrong or did it suddenly become disrespectful to be sorry for the loss of others?

dude.. in how many ways do I need to explain? oh right, sarcasm, right? ;p

1565, hahahaha! I wrote like two gigantic posts, didn't get it entirely clear, write one short one & suddenly I get my point across! (not that you necessarily agree) *shakes head* I really should quit explaining myself so elaborately every time, because I only make it more confusing.

Brianna! where have you been? <3
I get what you're saying. like I said, examples often make a lousy argument, but it's not in the nature of the disaster, it's about how people deal with it. I see that in your example. if anything, a deliberate attack stings a whole lot more for people involved, I'd say, than a natural death, or something that couldn't really have been prevented from happening. although in the end you can't compare one's pain to another person's pain. whatever. yeah, it seems like people try to come off compassionate by crying along with the actual victims, but to me it also comes across like people, who have nothing to be heartbroken over, want an arm wrapped around their shoulders too. people obviously need drama, or Oprah wouldn't earn a dime, but sometimes everybody just needs to take a step back in respect for the actual victims & whoever was really personally involved.

0r4ng3
09-19-2008, 04:20 AM
dude.. in how many ways do I need to explain? oh right, sarcasm, right? ;p
No, that second part wasn't sarcastic, but I'm kind of an idiot, so I'll just accept that I don't understand it.

KHWHD
09-10-2010, 09:52 PM
R.i.p. :(

Outerspaceman21
09-11-2010, 12:26 AM
RIP to the victims on 9/11.

But that date always will come first as my sister's birthday, regardless of tragedy. Happy birthday, sis.

Paint_It_Black
09-11-2010, 02:09 AM
Happy Birthday, outerspacesister!

My Name Was Taken
09-12-2010, 06:40 PM
RIP to the victims on 9/11.

But that date always will come first as my sister's birthday, regardless of tragedy. Happy birthday, sis.

awesome.. tell her i said happy b-day =]

calichix
09-12-2010, 07:47 PM
whyyyy are badly photoshopped eagle-on-a-warpath or eagle-flipping-off-gun-wielding, scowling-towelheads so funny?!! still! in a way they're actually really sweet and endearing.

I like "9/11- never forget" jokes as much as the next anyone who isn't too self serious to be alive, but it still so sombering and makes my heart shrivel to hear friends who lost someone mention it, or see big buff hardass new yorker dudes crying on the news.

:/

nieh
09-12-2010, 08:22 PM
It still bothers me when people that weren't affected at all by it still seem to romanticize the date (omg, check out the expiration date on this food! Spooky, huh!?)

Little_Miss_1565
09-13-2010, 06:02 AM
It still bothers me when people that weren't affected at all by it still seem to romanticize the date (omg, check out the expiration date on this food! Spooky, huh!?)

Not to mention the GOP members of congress trying to block health care for first responders and survivors, meanwhile thumping 9/11 as their personal pet cause. The more time I spend in NYC, the more it pisses me off when people use it to make a political point about anything but taking care of the people dying of cancer because they tried to pull people out of the rubble, or get the f out of the way of a falling skyscraper.

_Lost_
09-13-2010, 02:22 PM
Its kind of funny. I work at a bakery that is booked year round for weddings on the weekends. Not a single wedding last weekend. Period. Its like they're afraid terrorists are going to fly a plane into their towering wedding cake or something.

jopre
09-13-2010, 05:00 PM
a horrible day for all...

dexter12296566
09-13-2010, 05:58 PM
RIP to the victims on 9/11.

But that date always will come first as my sister's birthday, regardless of tragedy. Happy birthday, sis.

i just had my bday party on saturday....

but it is tie for the war to end... it has been 9 years.... i dont get what they are fighting over... why did they attack us? why do they hate america so much?

SåS
09-13-2010, 06:01 PM
why did they attack us? why do they hate america so much?


Hmmmm I wonder.

dexter12296566
09-13-2010, 06:06 PM
Hmmmm I wonder.

ok... i feel like ur being sarcastic... seriously... what did america do to them?

SåS
09-13-2010, 06:11 PM
There are many theories, Google them and decide yourself.

Paint_It_Black
09-16-2010, 12:58 AM
Its kind of funny. I work at a bakery that is booked year round for weddings on the weekends. Not a single wedding last weekend.

Could have been a coincidence. I work at a hotel and we have wedding parties almost every weekend. Last weekend we had two.

WebDudette
09-16-2010, 01:13 AM
Even if it wasn't a coincidence, I'm probably not about to schedule my wedding for September 11th. Not because I really care, just because I think everyone else would make some kind of big deal out of it. I don't want to have to deal with the crap every anniversary. Besides, choosing a different date to avoid it as a minor inconvenience isn't that big of a deal.

_Lost_
09-16-2010, 01:59 AM
Should it be easier to book a particular thing for my wedding if said thing is otherwise booked for months, I'd have a 9/11 wedding.
Could have been a coincidence. I work at a hotel and we have wedding parties almost every weekend. Last weekend we had two.

I think it's happened in past years. There isn't another opening for weddings for months. It's weird if it's only coincidental.

Harleyquiiinn
09-16-2010, 06:22 AM
I went to a wedding on september, 11 and nobody mentionned anything about the choice of the date.

Also it was very nice. :)

WebDudette
09-16-2010, 12:46 PM
But, you went to this wedding in France, correct?

Harleyquiiinn
09-16-2010, 01:32 PM
But, you went to this wedding in France, correct?

I was being provocative, really.

But please don't think that this date has no meaning for us.

I actually think that the weds booked this date because they had little money and that was what was free.

And nobody mentionned the planes because... well... it's bad manners to talk of death in a wedding...

I think that September 11th has become a day of bad luck. Usually, people don't do important things on that day. It's a sort of unconscious superstition.

WebDudette
09-16-2010, 01:38 PM
I honestly do think it is ridiculous for people to intentionally avoid it in the way Lost was talking about and I'm sure people do. If I had another choice though, I personally wouldn't pick it because I don't want to listen to people talk about it forever.

Certainly, I can't imagine anyone would bring it up at the wedding. But I'm sure people would be asking every day up to the wedding 'so you scheduled it for September 11th, huh?'

I didn't mean to imply that France has no reaction to it, but that the United States overreacts to it. I sincerely believe that the whole thing, at this point, has been blown out of proportion and the country needs to move past it.

Alison
09-16-2010, 01:49 PM
I do feel very sorry for anyone who knew anyone or is still suffering from the effects of 9/11, but I was in France for the last week and this tv show was on about it (it was the only thing on in english so left it on), but it was just unwatchable because the extreme American patriotism shown by the people interviewed just pissed me off so much, especially seen as they had basically been abandoned by the American government in terms of medical aid etc. It just baffles me. I do feel the deepest sympathy for these people, but jaysis....still frustrated me