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Llamas
12-10-2008, 02:24 AM
So I downloaded a drum programming thing, and wow, does this ever suck the fun out of making music. Sitting here, clicking my mouse over and over... I don't think I can handle it. This isn't making music, in my opinion. :-/ One of my friends offered to let me keep his drumset in my apt and borrow it for a while... I'm starting to think I might take him up on that, even though I have nowhere to put it. haha.

Can anyone actually tolerate these programs?

randman21
12-10-2008, 03:15 AM
Wow, you're on late these days.

So, I can tolerate drum programs. Just barely. I hate putting each pattern together to make a sequence the most. It's extremely tedious and the various problems that can arise make me want to break things. However, for some reason, it always comes out worth it for me in the end. If the finished product sounds great, I tend to forget about the troubles. Even though I've never really played drums, I'd take a real set of a program any day. I say go for it.

Llamas
12-10-2008, 03:22 AM
I'm always up late; I didn't get internet until almost two weeks ago, though. So that's probably what makes it seem different. haha.

Yeah, maybe once I finish one it'll be okay... I tend to think that it'd be SO much easier if it was set up like real music... I mean, "sequence" and "pattern" aren't actual musical terms. If there was a musical staff and such, it'd be sooo much easier for me. How it is is just sooo annoying.

And yeah, I'm really considering borrowing the set. There are just a few obstacles; I don't have space for it (it'd have to go in my bedroom, like in the middle of the room, haha), I live in an apartment complex (though nobody lives below me), and apparently the high hat doesn't work and my friend has to fix it first. Lame. But I'm still very strongly considering it... cause I got sooo bored/annoyed with programming that I quit.

Llamas
12-10-2008, 03:25 AM
PS I'm not a very good drummer by any means, haha. My experience includes:

-during study hall every day in high school, a few of my friends and I would skip out and go... to the band room (we were THAT nerdy). Jake would bring his electric guitar, Matt would bring his bass, and I'd get behind the set, and we'd just mess around and jam.

-I filled in at my church's youth group in high school when the drummer quit. I didn't know how to use the bass drum, yet nobody seemed to realize that I didn't actually know how to play the drums; they said it sounded great.

-Rock Band. Which is actually what taught me how to incorporate the bass drum.

That is all. Haha. But I pick up instruments really quickly, so maybe it'd come to me.

randman21
12-10-2008, 03:41 AM
Haha, skipping to go to the band room is pretty funny. My friend and I used to skip whole days of school to hang out at the library. :cool:



Yeah, maybe once I finish one it'll be okay... I tend to think that it'd be SO much easier if it was set up like real music... I mean, "sequence" and "pattern" aren't actual musical terms. If there was a musical staff and such, it'd be sooo much easier for me. How it is is just sooo annoying.

Funny you mention it, because I wasn't going to bring it up. I don't know how familiar you are with these, but if you have something like Noteworthy Composer, Sibelius, or Finale (which I have), they use staves. I was thinking of making a drum rhythm in that, exporting it as a MIDI file, importing the file into software that supports it and VST instruments, and running the file through the VSTi. You could also use your MIDI keyboard to make beats, if your hand is steady enough. I've done both before, and they worked fine, if only I could find a VSTi that sounds great and doesn't cost hundreds of dollars.

T-6005
12-10-2008, 11:25 AM
I like drum programs. I use Acoustica Beatcraft and it's really quite simple. Some programs, like Fruity Loops, are unbelievably complicated and I've never understood them.

I like drum machines because they allow me to have a drum track all set up to play along to, without the hassle of remembering every little part of my song myself while I play some drum set that I'd sound terrible on. And not only do I not have the equipment to properly record drums (which is a big factor), the way I can write drums using a program is lightyears beyond anything I can actually play, which is a huge bonus. It saves me the hassle of learning to kick really fast when I want to record something hardcore sounding.

That, and to be honest I think it's kind of fun. I think you went a little far describing it as not making music. Maybe I just feel that way because that's now part of how I make music, but it's true. It's merely used in a different way. I generally have a vague idea of how my song will go, and the drum program allows me to fully quantify structure and pacing. Certainly, I'm locking myself in to some extent, but it saves me a lot of frustration when editing.

Llamas
12-10-2008, 01:10 PM
Funny you mention it, because I wasn't going to bring it up. I don't know how familiar you are with these, but if you have something like Noteworthy Composer, Sibelius, or Finale (which I have), they use staves. I was thinking of making a drum rhythm in that, exporting it as a MIDI file, importing the file into software that supports it and VST instruments, and running the file through the VSTi. You could also use your MIDI keyboard to make beats, if your hand is steady enough. I've done both before, and they worked fine, if only I could find a VSTi that sounds great and doesn't cost hundreds of dollars.

I can't with my MIDI, because it's so old that you have to load sounds into it using floppy disks, so I'm limited to the sounds I have on those disks... I don't have a percussion disk. Sucky.

Guitar Pro uses musical staffs and standard notation, so I've written some nice drum parts in there, but then I have no idea how to get it into something like acoustica beatcraft... maybe I'll have to look into that. Because yeah, it's at least closer to "writing" when it looks like music, haha.


I like drum machines because they allow me to have a drum track all set up to play along to, without the hassle of remembering every little part of my song myself while I play some drum set that I'd sound terrible on. And not only do I not have the equipment to properly record drums (which is a big factor), the way I can write drums using a program is lightyears beyond anything I can actually play, which is a huge bonus. It saves me the hassle of learning to kick really fast when I want to record something hardcore sounding.
Haha, see half the fun of writing music to me is playing the instruments. It's not a hassle to me to learn how to play something.


That, and to be honest I think it's kind of fun. I think you went a little far describing it as not making music. Maybe I just feel that way because that's now part of how I make music, but it's true. It's merely used in a different way. I generally have a vague idea of how my song will go, and the drum program allows me to fully quantify structure and pacing. Certainly, I'm locking myself in to some extent, but it saves me a lot of frustration when editing.
Well but that was just in my opinion. While using it, I genuinely don't feel like I'm making music.

Llamas
01-07-2009, 09:47 PM
For anyone who uses acoustica beatcraft... I finally caved and learned to actually use it, and I'm stuck! I can't figure out how to make a pattern a different tempo than the others. The first few patterns are 150 bpm, but I want pattern 4 to be 80 bpm... I can't figure out how to change JUST pattern 4 and not the entire sequence... help?

randman21
01-08-2009, 02:14 AM
Don't take this as gospel, but I'm 90% sure you can't do that. What you can do though (as I open Beatcraft myself because I need to do the drums for my song) is, on the sequencer, go to the place in the sequence where you want to change your tempo, right click>Flags>Add Tempo Flag Here... and set the tempo. Then you can change it back/again when you get to the appropriate place. I would suggest putting one at the very beginning, too. If you don't, it will use the last tempo you set instead of the right one.

Llamas
01-08-2009, 02:53 AM
Thanks, but I did it the hard way... the song went into 3/1 time that should've been 80 bpm, but since I couldn't figure it out, I kept it in 4/4 time at the same 150 bpm and just put the notes on odd beats...

Anyway, I'm fucking PISSED because I FINISHED THE FUCKING SONG and was about to record one last final touch... and then audacity CRASHED and did NOT restore to my last save point. I lost tons of stuff, and I'm sooo frustrated. :(

randman21
01-08-2009, 09:25 AM
Gah. I swear, you and _Lost_...SAVE YOUR WORK, PPL! But yeah, that really sucks. It's the kind of thing that would make me give up on it indefinitely, especially working with Beatcraft, which I consider to be highly irritating in the first place.

Llamas
01-08-2009, 12:49 PM
I swear to god I did save, though. Multiple times. It just didn't restore at my last save point... it went wayyyy back. :(

The drum beat I made is fine; acoustica beatcraft didn't crash. Just audacity did. I lost three piano sections, three (short) voice sections, and one other section. The only one of those I'm frustrated about is one of the piano sections. What I'm really irritated about is all the editing that's down the drain. Bah. I'm new to the whole editing thing (usually I just record it and that's IT), so it takes me forEVER to edit anything. Lameness.

Satanic_Surfer
01-09-2009, 03:24 AM
I like drum programs. I use Acoustica Beatcraft and it's really quite simple. Some programs, like Fruity Loops, are unbelievably complicated and I've never understood them.

I use Fruity Loops for drums, it's great!

I guess it take's a while to get a hold of it or something, but it doesnt take long at all when you've got some experience.

Superdope
01-09-2009, 08:23 AM
So I just bought (yes, bought) beatcraft after the trial had ended. I'm really satisfied with this program, and think it's awesome. Would any of you, who also use this program, happen to know if you can do flams and ghost notes in it, though?

Homer
01-09-2009, 04:53 PM
No flams or ghost notes.

Which sucks.

Llamas
01-09-2009, 05:06 PM
A flam is a drumming version of a grace note, right? I'm not sure what a ghost note is, though.

There are a lot of things you can't do with these drumming programs. I'm still thoroughly annoyed that there's no actual option to have a "sequence" change tempo, and in order to do something like a crescendo/decrescendo, you have to sit and change the loudness number for each beat... it's like making a flip book. No, more like stop animation. My god.

Yet I'm still using the friggin program cause I don't have an actual drum set. :-/

Rooster
01-09-2009, 05:21 PM
Well, i find drum programs quite usefull. I don't have any actually, my friend (read: my band's drummer) uses some program to make working drum tracks for our songs and then sends them to me so that i can work on guitar parts using those tracks (usually i record main guitar first, then send it to him and tell him what tempo it should be in, he then makes his drum part using the program and sends it to me so i can record my parts properly). It works pretty well. But when we will record demo songs there would be real drums of course. I think this won't be a problem, as he is a good drummer.

Homer
01-09-2009, 05:42 PM
I'm still thoroughly annoyed that there's no actual option to have a "sequence" change tempo,

Make two different projects, with two different tempos. Render them down and put them together. Easy.


in order to do something like a crescendo/decrescendo, you have to sit and change the loudness number for each beat...

Can you think of a more efficient way of doing that?

Llamas
01-09-2009, 05:46 PM
Make two different projects, with two different tempos. Render them down and put them together. Easy.
Well that only works if it's a sudden tempo change. Sometimes a song calls for something poco a poco, or even faster but still over the course of a few measures.




Can you think of a more efficient way of doing that?
Yep, pick the start and the end of the crescendo/decrescendo. Click some cres/decres button. Determine/set starting and ending volume.

Homer
01-09-2009, 05:58 PM
Well that only works if it's a sudden tempo change. Sometimes a song calls for something poco a poco, or even faster but still over the course of a few measures.

I don't know of a program that does that, but I would love to have one.


Yep, pick the start and the end of the crescendo/decrescendo. Click some cres/decres button. Determine/set starting and ending volume.

Oh shit, I thought you had meant accents in the previous post for some reason. Anyways, what you could do is just ignore the volume until you render it down. Then you can just use whatever mixing program you have to do the volume change for you. Unless, of course, you only need one drum to do that.

Llamas
01-09-2009, 06:11 PM
I don't know of a program that does that, but I would love to have one.
Me, too.


Oh shit, I thought you had meant accents in the previous post for some reason. Anyways, what you could do is just ignore the volume until you render it down. Then you can just use whatever mixing program you have to do the volume change for you. Unless, of course, you only need one drum to do that.
Ah, yeah there's really no better way to do accents than to write each one in.

And yeah, I did mess with the volume after rendering it into audacity... but it just doesn't sound as good that way, and audacity doesn't really have an option for crescendos/decrescendos. But regardless, it doesn't sound very good when you mess with the volume in the mixing program.

Superdope
02-16-2009, 03:03 PM
Guys, I've found a way to simulate a flam in Beatcraft! Just choose the drum you want to do flams with, and choose effects. there should be a effect called chorus. choose it and there's a preset called acapella - Duet, or something along those lines.

I think you would have to create a seperate track underneath your main one, because if you don't I'm sure it'll use it on the entire track, and not just the one pattern. A bit of a hassle, but if you really need the flamz, there you go.

Homer
02-16-2009, 03:44 PM
Thank you.