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View Full Version : The Decline and Fall of the “Epic” Album.



jacknife737
03-09-2009, 05:13 PM
Ok, so I wasn’t really sure what I was going to call this thread; but let me explain. The music industry in its present form is in decline. Album sales are plummeting, digital sales (and vinyl, surprisingly) may have increased but that’s like you may have gained 5 but you’ve still lost 50.

So, what do I mean by “epic” album, you may ask? Well, I’m talking about those albums that just about every one of your friends own a copy, Americana, Smash, Dookie, Nevermind, Black Album, ect, ect, ect, ect.

The most recent one, in my view was American Idiot. Regardless of how you may think of the quality of the album, it’s pretty undeniable that this albums was “epic” in the sense that its singles were everywhere, it sold about a billion copies and everyone from the music press, to the dude down the street was talking about it. I think American Idiot may be the last album to have such an impact. I of course may be wrong, but given the current trends of the music industry, it’s certainly looking that way.

So what do you guys think? Do you think we’ll ever seen an album that has the success of American Idiot, or Americana, or Nevermind?

Free?
03-09-2009, 05:47 PM
Nickelback is pretty epic.
Hahahahaha

RonWelty
03-09-2009, 06:05 PM
The new U2's album seems to be selling big time. The point here is that now what once could sold 10M today if it achieves 4M would be good!

0r4ng3
03-09-2009, 06:07 PM
So you're referring to highly successful albums? Because, as an example, I don't own a copy, but I heard that RHCP's Stadium Arcadium went over pretty well.

jacknife737
03-09-2009, 06:14 PM
So you're referring to highly successful albums? Because, as an example, I don't own a copy, but I heard that RHCP's Stadium Arcadium went over pretty well.

Not necessarily, sales however, do play a part of it. I mean, in my view American Idiot had a bigger cultural impact then Stadium Arcadium; it's been five years since AI was released, and people still seem to talk about it, could you say the same for Stadium Arcadium? I mean, from a cultural standpoint, nobody seems to care about it; I don't really think that in 30 years people going to say that it was one of the defining albums of the 2000s, like they do when discussing Nevermind and the 90s.

chicapowerpunk
03-09-2009, 08:00 PM
The cause of the decline in physical album sales is because there are rumors that slip on the internet and others are pirated versions .....:cool:

jacknife737
03-09-2009, 08:35 PM
I suppose from my original post my intentions with this thread, weren't exactly the clearest.

Just to clear up any confusion. I'm talking about albums that are 1) big sellers and 2) have made a cultural impact, in part due to their size.

renato piquette
03-09-2009, 08:42 PM
i can only thnk about "elephant" by the white stripes and maybe audioslave´s self-titled

Outerspaceman21
03-09-2009, 08:46 PM
It's all due to the pirating and downloading. No one likes spending money anymore. They're giving it too much meaning when, in reality, money has no meaning whatsoever. Greedy assholes...


As for th epic album, everyone has their heads so far up their asses, they don't bother to look for good music. And if they like one song, they are gonna download that one song and totally bypass the entire album.

jacknife737
03-09-2009, 08:50 PM
And if they like one song, they are gonna download that one song and totally bypass the entire album.

That's a good point, especially when it comes to popular albums, lots of people are moving beyond the concept of the album and simply downloading the singles. Which I think reinforces the idea that the era of the "epic album" is coming to an end. There will always be popular songs, but i think people will more and more separate them from the album concept.

Outerspaceman21
03-09-2009, 08:55 PM
That's a good point, especially when it comes to popular albums, lots of people are moving beyond the concept of the album and simply downloading the singles. Which I think reinforces the idea that the era of the "epic album" is coming to an end. There will always be popular songs, but i think people will more and more separate them from the album concept.

That what I totally hate about the internet. It's making everything so much easier, people are letting life pass them by.

jacknife737
03-09-2009, 08:59 PM
That what I totally hate about the internet. It's making everything so much easier, people are letting life pass them by.

Although I'm reluctant to bash the internet, since i've discovered tons and tons of new, great music from forums, or websites, ect; and have gained access to rare live/ out of print stuff; I still can't help think, that to a degree, the internet has taken the romance out of finding new music.

renato piquette
03-09-2009, 09:00 PM
yeah,i´m not bragging,but i got about 200 original albums,i´ve spent tons on them,i get kind of mad when i see people with more albums(downloaded for free) than me on their computers,kind of sucks for me

Outerspaceman21
03-09-2009, 09:03 PM
Although I'm reluctant to bash the internet, since i've discovered tons and tons of new, great music from forums, or websites, ect; and have gained access to rare live/ out of print stuff; I still can't help think, that to a degree, the internet has taken the romance out of finding new music.

I use the internet to buy CDs and junk off of interpunk.com Thats it. I always listen to an entire, or a good portion, before I buy it. (because of the buyers regret).

WebDudette
03-09-2009, 09:56 PM
I'll admit it, I'm a miserable pirate and download everything I want.

I think there is still a chance. I don't think American Idiot got all of its attention solely because people liked it. I think there was a lot of 'zomg sell-out' drama that brought it a lot of popularity.

bighead384
03-09-2009, 11:31 PM
You don't have to define epic albums. You just know what albums are epic.

Little_Miss_1565
03-10-2009, 12:11 AM
Why are we only looking at sales? Why not judge on that unquantifiable je ne se quois that makes you raise lighters/horns?

"Half Truism" is epic as fuck. Meshuggah's last show in NYC was epiiiiiiiiic. "Knights of Cydonia?" Epic.

I work in the music industry; you don't have to tell me that sales are way down. There's still just as much good music out there, though. Perhaps more. Information wants to be free, they say, but my rent wants to be expensive. Downloading won't be stopped but buy some records once in awhile :P

Jesus
03-10-2009, 03:18 AM
Depends on the location too I guess, "Whatever People Say I Am, That’s What I’m Not" (Arctic Monkeys) was pretty epic here. Just as Eyes Open (Snow Patrol). I actually have both, I'm a fag I know. Also X&Y by Coldplay. Which were all released after American Idiot. But yeah that album's impact worldwide was huge like in the days of Americana, Hybrid Theory, Californication, ...

But I understand what you mean, it has become more difficult for an album to be in the spotlight for a long time because there is so much more out there thanks to the Internet. More stuff competing. The closed thing recently is probably more pop like Rihanna, Kate Perry and Amy Winehouse.

Or we could have just become old, and todays Californication or Hybrid Theory are just albums by My Chemical Romance and Fall Out Boy (or, I don't wanna go there, but still, the Jonas Brothers) album.

Rooster
03-10-2009, 06:37 AM
yeah,i´m not bragging,but i got about 200 original albums,i´ve spent tons on them,i get kind of mad when i see people with more albums(downloaded for free) than me on their computers,kind of sucks for me

I'm sure i got even more original albums than you. A few years ago i counted them and the number was around 200. I don't have the faintest idea how much more i got since then.

Well, as for epic albums - for me the last one was Songs For The Deaf by QOTSA. It's considered as their greatest work by many, and i agree. Now i think the music scene (at least the mainstream) is going nowhere (or maybe it is going somewhere, but i don't like that direction) - it is dominated by pop-rock bands, modern "emo" bands which all sound basically the same and wear far too much eyeliner. Basically, i think than now it's more about the looks and what is cool than the music itself.

If we would an epic album in the future, it would have to be something different. Something that would change the way people think now, and it would change the mainstream music again. While QOTSA's SFTD was pretty epic for me i don't think it really changed the scene that much. The last album that trully did that was Nevermind. Nirvana had different attitude than majority of the mainstream artists at the time, and they played something that listeners could relate to. They sounded fresh, although they really didn't invent something completely new. I think that in order to see an epic album again, it would have to do what Nirvana did in 1991. Maybe that would boost the actual album copies sales more. But for now i don't see it happen.

jacknife737
03-10-2009, 09:46 AM
Why are we only looking at sales? Why not judge on that unquantifiable je ne se quois that makes you raise lighters/horns?

Good point, if a record manages to change even just one world, that's probably all that really matters. Does what I view as "the decline", even matter at all? I'd also like to clarify that i'm in no way trying to bash today's music; my top ten list of 08 could have easily been three times as long.

@ Jesus

You raise even more excellent points; my original posts certainly do have a generational and regional bias. Perhaps i'm just not "down" with what the kids are listening to these days. Now that i think about it, from my own definition the Arctic Monkey's album (which is awesome imo) would certainly be considered to be "epic" from a European perspective.

RageAndLov
03-10-2009, 11:02 AM
I feel most of you only talk about epic sub-genres-of-rock albums, when maybe pop albums probably made a bigger impact culturally and were more epic. Just think what "... Baby One More Time" by Britney Spears and "Like A Virgin" by Madonna did to the culture all over the world in their time?
Even people who listen to other genres and don't like pop or mainstream music know about these artists and many of their singles from the artists epic albums.

Forza
03-10-2009, 11:09 AM
Viva la Vida is one of the latest I guess. So they're still made.

ad8
03-10-2009, 11:13 AM
I agree with Jacknife here. I think the times that there would be one "epic" album that everybody had are over. I think he didn't really mean the music itself when he spoke of the epicness. I think RAFRAG is pretty fucking epic, and so are probably many more albums from 2006-2009. But I think there were no albums that changed the scene; nothing bringing up some awesome new aspects. I think that American Idiot was so much talked about because of the political aspect which was not really new(take Americana for example) but hit the trend of that time. After American Idiot there were no real mind-blowing albums that everyone talked about in my opinion and I think that there is only a very small chance to have another "epic" album. Today there are just singles that are played on the radio and in the clubs that people talk about, but they disappear after 6-10 months as another song of their kind replaces it.

Cock Joke
03-10-2009, 12:53 PM
That's for sure. RAFRAG, Death Magnetic, Black Ice, and even CHINESE FUCKIN' DEMOCRACY did not live up to "epic" standards. 21st Century Breakdown won't either, nor will the new Blink 182 album, nor will any others. Piracy is too frikkin huge and CD stores aren't doing a whole lot of business nowadays. Is Sam Goody even around anymore? Fucknuggets.

IamSam
03-10-2009, 02:27 PM
I don't know...Blink had a huge following and they have been deprived of new music for quite a while. Could a new Blink album possibly sell a lot more than thought? Or would piracy really put a damper on it?

jacknife737
03-11-2009, 04:39 PM
I don't know...Blink had a huge following and they have been deprived of new music for quite a while. Could a new Blink album possibly sell a lot more than thought? Or would piracy really put a damper on it?

I'm actually quite interested to see how well that album is going to be received by the general public. There will certainly be a lot of buzz about it due to the reunion; guess it will depend on how well the singles do. I suspect it'll sell as much, or close to their self titled album but probably won't be anywhere near the scale of Enema.

bouncingcoles
03-11-2009, 06:08 PM
The most recent one, in my view was American Idiot. Regardless of how you may think of the quality of the album, it’s pretty undeniable that this albums was “epic” in the sense that its singles were everywhere, it sold about a billion copies and everyone from the music press, to the dude down the street was talking about it. I think American Idiot may be the last album to have such an impact. I of course may be wrong, but given the current trends of the music industry, it’s certainly looking that way.

So what do you guys think? Do you think we’ll ever seen an album that has the success of American Idiot, or Americana, or Nevermind?

you are flat out wrong. just because no one is buying cds doesnt mean there wont be anymore huge cds. thats the stupidest thing iv ever heard. im sorry you need to start listening to more music besides nirvana offspring and green day

jacknife737
03-11-2009, 06:20 PM
you are flat out wrong. just because no one is buying cds doesnt mean there wont be anymore huge cds. thats the stupidest thing iv ever heard. im sorry you need to start listening to more music besides nirvana offspring and green day

You don't really see the contradiction there?

And why so confrontational? Did i stab your dog in the eye or something?

Outerspaceman21
03-11-2009, 07:22 PM
You don't really see the contradiction there?

And why so confrontational? Did i stab your dog in the eye or something?

And raped it, too. Jesus.

IamSam
03-11-2009, 08:59 PM
you are flat out wrong. just because no one is buying cds doesnt mean there wont be anymore huge cds. thats the stupidest thing iv ever heard. im sorry you need to start listening to more music besides nirvana offspring and green day

Doublethink.

bighead384
03-11-2009, 09:16 PM
The decline and fall? That's redundant.

jacknife737
03-11-2009, 09:34 PM
The decline and fall? That's redundant.

The title of the thread is a play off Gibbon's epic historical work http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_History_of_the_Decline_and_Fall_of_the_Roman_E mpire

And no it isn't, something (such as album sales) can go into decline, before it totally collapses. Offer something insightful or stop trying to derail the thread.

bighead384
03-11-2009, 09:44 PM
Offer something insightful or stop trying to derail the thread.

Eat a dick.

Smash_Returns
03-11-2009, 10:16 PM
I doubt we'll see another "Zoso", "Number Of The Beast", or "Nevermind" for a while.

However, we will almost certainly get some more "epic" singles. (Come on, who can resist singing along with "Don't Stop Believin'"? Now how many of you actually own that particular Journey album?)

The problem is, there aren't any notable or memorable NEW bands popping up. The last one I can think of is Wolfmother, and they broke up (but they are getting new members).

Most good bands are a few years old, and already have a name.
The problem is, most Rock currently is just boring, and is all the same. Everyone is either copying Atreyu, Fallout Boy, or Nickelback. And I hate all 3 of those bands. However, Progressive Rock and Alternative is showing promise, with bands like Muse and Tool.

Any metal bands (excluding prog-metal, like Tool) that started after Metallica released the Black Album suck and are copying it. Older metal bands releasing new albums, such as Iron Maiden are still good though.

Rap has turned into gangsta-rap. I've lost all hope that we'll ever get another Beastie Boys or Rage Against The Machine. I hope to be proven wrong here.

Country always has bored and depressed me. It still does. Country can go die in a fire.

The list goes on...

IamSam
03-11-2009, 10:24 PM
I'm actually quite interested to see how well that album is going to be received by the general public. There will certainly be a lot of buzz about it due to the reunion; guess it will depend on how well the singles do. I suspect it'll sell as much, or close to their self titled album but probably won't be anywhere near the scale of Enema.

So not a Viva la Vida size of record? What did they sell the first week...750,000?

What if we just have to adjust what an 'epic' album is now? It's much like the discussion of the evolution of language: Over time it evolves and we have to evolve with it. So with the advent of high speed internet, massive amounts of music thievery, and little or no backlash for it, what if we have to recategorize what an 'epic' album is?

WebDudette
03-11-2009, 10:29 PM
Hmm... I think we'll see sales more along the lines of In Rainbows and the new cursive album. Pay what you want type things.

Little_Miss_1565
03-11-2009, 10:33 PM
Bighead, there will be no eating of dicks in this thread. Mom said.

T-6005
03-11-2009, 10:45 PM
I think epic albums are also formative albums.

For that reason, albums that are huge amongst teens and general radio play may not even be noticed by people with a few more years who have generally settled down in terms of taste.

"Epic" albums are still being made - we're just too old.

Only kidding, but the point still stands - an album seems much bigger if it plays a part in your formative years. It may only receive general radio play - like Americana had how many singles? not THAT many - but seem much bigger in your memory because of how it personally impacted you and your tastes.

coke_a_holic
03-11-2009, 11:15 PM
I can think of a lot of albums that are epic, BUT LIKE THEY'RE SO INDIE AND YOU GUYS JUST DON'T GET THEM.

No, but seriously, I agree with Jackknife for the most part. It's a shame, too. You guys saying things like "oh you're just talking about rock music," are off a bit, too. Like, a lot of albums have been coming out and none of them are just taking the world by storm. Maybe, like, Taylor Swift's album? Considering she's 19 years old, it's doing extremely well.

Also, to say that Wolfmother is one of the only good new bands around is just sad, dude. Come on, they were really bad. Rehashing 70's music does not equal good, just because it throws back to the olden days.

IamSam
03-12-2009, 12:01 AM
No, but seriously, I agree with Jackknife for the most part. It's a shame, too. You guys saying things like "oh you're just talking about rock music," are off a bit, too. Like, a lot of albums have been coming out and none of them are just taking the world by storm. Maybe, like, Taylor Swift's album? Considering she's 19 years old, it's doing extremely well.



It has sold well over 3 million copies, much like Coldplay's album. I really do believe though that the entire scope of 'epic album' must be moved down to compensate with the large scale piracy and file sharing problems attacking the music industry. I'll be honest, the majority of my music that I have is swiped from friends and from the internet. Hell, here on an official band's forum we have a music request thread. If people get it for free, why buy it unless you're personally attached to it?

coke_a_holic
03-12-2009, 12:23 AM
I hardly buy records at all anymore. I used to do it out of, like, respect for the artists, but at this point, I really only buy records I can't find online or I pre-order cds from bands that I really like.

Yeah, I know it makes me a dick. Whatever. I've donated money to bands because I downloaded all their music. I believe that bands get a lot more out of a donation than the 13 cents or whatever per cd.

EDIT: I don't actually know how much a band makes per cd sale, but I assume it's a very minute amount unless they're selling them themselves, you know? Gotta pay so many people per cd sold.

IamSam
03-12-2009, 12:31 AM
EDIT: I don't actually know how much a band makes per cd sale, but I assume it's a very minute amount unless they're selling them themselves, you know? Gotta pay so many people per cd sold.

I would actually like to know that as well. However...quick calculation if it was 13¢....

.13 x 3 million = $390,000

Jesus
03-12-2009, 02:49 AM
You don't really see the contradiction there?

I don't think there is a contradiction between a decline in cd sales and the how epic an album is. An 'illegally' downloaded album is also an album that someone owns. I think it's more useful to use epic in a sense that it's album that a lot of people have (legal or not) and that has a huge cross border cultural impact.

If you only limit it to actual sales you won't get that far I think. Because albums from GNR, AC/DC, Metallica still sell quite well because they have an older demographic. A demographic that still buys cds out of nostalgia and also one that has plenty of money. Most of the cd market over here is actually aimed at people over 50, because they suck at the internets and they have money. That doesn't mean the cultural impact is as large as that of an album aimed at a segment of the population that downloads its music.



Maybe, like, Taylor Swift's album? Considering she's 19 years old, it's doing extremely well.


Had to google her, seems she's only pretty known in the US. So that doesn't count in terms of epicness. Every country has those, cause it's easier to gain attention in a single market.

coke_a_holic
03-12-2009, 03:31 AM
Had to google her, seems she's only pretty known in the US. So that doesn't count in terms of epicness. Every country has those, cause it's easier to gain attention in a single market.

Oh, that's fair enough, I have such a tiny world view that I'm really going solely by what I see here. I don't even listen to her music, really; my girlfriend does and I think she's okay, but nothing too great.

I'd say the world is waiting to be swept up by some new phenoms (JoBros?), which is kind of part of the big deal. When bands sell a lot of cds, they have a higher chance of touring abroad or getting their cds sold to a new market. With the coming digital age, it doesn't make as much sense to release cds worldwide where they're less likely to be well-received.

So, in a sense, cd sales make a big deal with how globally a band's effect is.

Little_Miss_1565
03-12-2009, 07:35 AM
"Epic" albums are still being made - we're just too old.

Only kidding, but the point still stands - an album seems much bigger if it plays a part in your formative years. It may only receive general radio play - like Americana had how many singles? not THAT many - but seem much bigger in your memory because of how it personally impacted you and your tastes.

Dude...that's deep. No, seriously. I've just realized that all the records that changed my life completely I heard before I was 13 years old.

WAIT...Nick Cave, Tom Waits...that was when I was 17. And Danny Elfman, well, that was just last year. Don't give up hope!


I hardly buy records at all anymore. I used to do it out of, like, respect for the artists, but at this point, I really only buy records I can't find online or I pre-order cds from bands that I really like.

Yeah, I know it makes me a dick. Whatever. I've donated money to bands because I downloaded all their music. I believe that bands get a lot more out of a donation than the 13 cents or whatever per cd.

EDIT: I don't actually know how much a band makes per cd sale, but I assume it's a very minute amount unless they're selling them themselves, you know? Gotta pay so many people per cd sold.

I'm sure the bands don't get a whole lot from each album sold, but ferfuxsakes, dude, album sales pay my salary (yes, I do know I'm fucked). Support the people that bust their asses to help those bands make money and be famous.

RageAndLov
03-12-2009, 08:21 AM
EDIT: I don't actually know how much a band makes per cd sale, but I assume it's a very minute amount unless they're selling them themselves, you know? Gotta pay so many people per cd sold.

If you're on an independent record label, you probably get more money per sold album. But that is kind of selling it themselves. Kind of.
The again, when you're on an independent label, you will probably sell less album than on a major label.

Little_Miss_1565
03-12-2009, 09:14 AM
If you're on an independent record label, you probably get more money per sold album. But that is kind of selling it themselves. Kind of.
The again, when you're on an independent label, you will probably sell less album than on a major label.

Many independent labels have distribution through a major label or major label subsidiary -- not entirely always like selling it themselves. :)

jacknife737
03-12-2009, 09:21 AM
What if we just have to adjust what an 'epic' album is now? It's much like the discussion of the evolution of language: Over time it evolves and we have to evolve with it. So with the advent of high speed internet, massive amounts of music thievery, and little or no backlash for it, what if we have to recategorize what an 'epic' album is?

Interesting point, and in a similar fashion to what Jesus wrote; perhaps we're moving to a point where album sales won't factor into how "epic" the album is. I suppose album sales are more of a concrete way of gaging an album's impact, but with the rise of file sharing, perhaps that doesn't matter any more. I mean, if 10 million people download an album, that's certainly considered "epic" by my own definition (making a cultural impact, in part due to it's size).


Hmm... I think we'll see sales more along the lines of In Rainbows and the new cursive album. Pay what you want type things.

The industry is certainly involving; lots of bands are embracing lots of different ways of trying to gain money from their art. The luddite in me, just hopes the physical formate doesn't go the way of the dinosaur.

And since it's partially being discussed here; i still by cds, most of the music I listen to is on indie lables, and i don't really care if Fat Mike or Mike Park make a couple bucks off me; it's the least i can do for putting out such great music.

bouncingcoles
03-12-2009, 09:59 AM
You don't really see the contradiction there?

And why so confrontational? Did i stab your dog in the eye or something?

okay i shouldnt have said cds. the fact that people arent buying cds doesnt mean certain albums wont be huge in popularity. that doesnt even make sense.

Little_Miss_1565
03-12-2009, 10:01 AM
okay i shouldnt have said cds. the fact that people arent buying cds doesnt mean certain albums wont be huge in popularity. that doesnt even make sense.

But unfortunately, there's no other way to really measure the popularity of a band except in figures. SoundScan doesn't count P2P.

Rag Doll
03-12-2009, 11:45 AM
Do you think this could be related to something besides simply pirating? I was thinking more along the lines of the changes in MTV and VH1 and whatnot. Back when *some* of these epic albums were released (I'm lookin' at you Americana), MTV and VH1 were huge. You could turn those channels on at any point and see the Pretty Fly video (that's how I found out about it). People would hear the song/see the video and buy the entire cd based on that. Now, however, when are there EVER music videos on MTV or VH1? You turn them on and get "True Life: I'm a High School Hottie" or "Rock of Love Bus." I would think the lack of videos has an impact on getting the word out about the album or giving people a connection to it.

Free?
03-12-2009, 01:41 PM
Interesting, good point, Rag Doll. I didn't have any possibility to watch MTV before like 2003 (and of course it wasn't any pleasant surprise to me anyway), the alternative to it was German music channel viva zwei which indeed was a real music channel with 95% of time music videos playing, so yeah, it had huge influence on my early "musical growing" with discovering Pretty Fly and getting Americana (just because Pretty Fly was on it). Also, there was no Internet, so music television definitely had much bigger influence than now.

bouncingcoles
03-12-2009, 02:47 PM
But unfortunately, there's no other way to really measure the popularity of a band except in figures. SoundScan doesn't count P2P.

you can by how many people attend the concerts and its possible to keep track of how many people download illegal downloads of albums. Also just because no one buys cds doesnt mean it wont have an affect on the population.

WebDudette
03-12-2009, 04:30 PM
Just wait for the new Depeche Mode album.

bighead384
03-13-2009, 12:36 AM
Epic albums only come around once in a while, but it's always good news when they do.

Little_Miss_1565
03-13-2009, 08:38 AM
you can by how many people attend the concerts and its possible to keep track of how many people download illegal downloads of albums. Also just because no one buys cds doesnt mean it wont have an affect on the population.

It's true; albums can have a profound effect on a lot of people and not have a lot of sales to show for it.

But...popularity won't pay the rent.

BTW, last night I realized that a Nick Cave record I've had for yeeears, "Henry's Dream," might unseat "The Boatman's Call" as my favorite of his records. 'The Loom of the Land' is a fucking epiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiic tune.

Superdope
03-13-2009, 08:56 AM
meshuggah's last show in nyc was epiiiiiiiiic.

<3
________

bouncingcoles
03-13-2009, 03:51 PM
It's true; albums can have a profound effect on a lot of people and not have a lot of sales to show for it.

But...popularity won't pay the rent.

BTW, last night I realized that a Nick Cave record I've had for yeeears, "Henry's Dream," might unseat "The Boatman's Call" as my favorite of his records. 'The Loom of the Land' is a fucking epiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiic tune.

actually popularity will pay the rent because people will attend the shows. Bands make 90 percent of their money from shows. Very little is made from the cd sales. the label makes most of the money off the records.

Outerspaceman21
03-13-2009, 07:26 PM
actually popularity will pay the rent because people will attend the shows. Bands make 90 percent of their money from shows. Very little is made from the cd sales. the label makes most of the money off the records.

Hmm, I didn't know that. I guess majors are the only ones that are sweating with that.

jacknife737
03-13-2009, 07:45 PM
Hmm, I didn't know that. I guess majors are the only ones that are sweating with that.

A lot of indie lables are getting hit just as hard. Apparently Fat Wreck had to lay a bunch of people off a little while ago.

Outerspaceman21
03-13-2009, 07:51 PM
A lot of indie lables are getting hit just as hard. Apparently Fat Wreck had to lay a bunch of people off a little while ago.

Yeah, all labels are getting hit. They need the profit from record sales to promote and produce more records and make money themselves. Digital sales are really hurting the music industry and people really don't care because they are under the infulence that this is a good thing. These are peoples jobs, man.

bouncingcoles
03-13-2009, 07:53 PM
A lot of indie lables are getting hit just as hard. Apparently Fat Wreck had to lay a bunch of people off a little while ago.

but majors are in the most trouble by far. A lot of people think that in the near future indie labels will reign supreme. Brett from epitaph sounds pretty comfortable about the whole situation. a lot of major labels are trying to do record deals with newly signed bands called 360 deals. The bands get paid more money up front but the label takes a percentage out of the money they make from the shows. thats what paramore does. Most bands think its total bullshit because thats where they make all their money, not in record sales.

randman21
03-13-2009, 11:00 PM
Heh, nobody probably cares anymore, but the average band makes 12-15% (only slightly more for an indie) of the SLRP, Suggested List Retail Price, per CD. So if your album sales for 15 bucks, you stand to make $2.25 per copy, at 15% SLRP. You make more from stuff like mechanical royalties, and potentially even more in publishing, but your chance of getting rich from all that is slim.

RageAndLov
03-14-2009, 06:17 PM
Heh, nobody probably cares anymore, but the average band makes 12-15% (only slightly more for an indie) of the SLRP, Suggested List Retail Price, per CD. So if your album sales for 15 bucks, you stand to make $2.25 per copy, at 15% SLRP. You make more from stuff like mechanical royalties, and potentially even more in publishing, but your chance of getting rich from all that is slim.

I don't know. Back when NOFX were on Epitaph Records, the record label got $7.25 per album sold, and the band would not say how much their cut was, since it was something between the label and the band, but they said they got most of the money. So if we'd say the band got $4 per sold album, and Punk In Drublic sold gold (http://nofx.org/albums/punkin/punkin.html). So thats 4 * 500'000 = $2'000'000! I bet they would have gotten less money for the record sale if they were on a major label.

EDIT: Source on money per sold album: http://nofx.org/qa/qa_read.php3?page=5

Jakebert
03-14-2009, 10:20 PM
I didn't read the rest of the thread so I dunno if this was covered, but I feel there are still big, "epic" albums, at least in the indie music world where the fans still buy albums reguarly and care more about the next big single. Yeah, these albums aren't as huge as Nevermind, but I know very few people who didn't buy "Hissing Fauna, Are You The Destroyer?" by Of Montreal last year, or people that haven't bought the new Animal Collective. I could name quite a few more albums that really sell to a massive audience of people and become kind of a cultural touchstone, even if outside of the mainstream.

Outerspaceman21
03-15-2009, 02:15 AM
I didn't read the rest of the thread so I dunno if this was covered, but I feel there are still big, "epic" albums, at least in the indie music world where the fans still buy albums reguarly and care more about the next big single. Yeah, these albums aren't as huge as Nevermind, but I know very few people who didn't buy "Hissing Fauna, Are You The Destroyer?" by Of Montreal last year, or people that haven't bought the new Animal Collective. I could name quite a few more albums that really sell to a massive audience of people and become kind of a cultural touchstone, even if outside of the mainstream.

I see want you are talking about. I would define an epic album as a must have CD for a music lover, or at least a music lover of that genre, like Bad Religion's "Suffer", which paved the way for melodic punk rock.