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Paint_It_Black
04-12-2009, 03:35 AM
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090411/ap_on_re_eu/eu_americanization_spreads

Not exactly anything mindblowingly new, but still somewhat interesting to me.

I'm curious what the British members here make of this. Have you noticed an increase in American trends? Is the "British" culture being lost? Is this a good or bad thing?

"Today it is American urban music — primarily rap — that is setting the style agenda for British youth, Glancy said."

Would you agree with this? If so, why do you think this has happened?

"church attendance is still very low in Britain compared to the United States, and U.S. sports have not caught on"

Out of curiosity, do most British people even know how religion-obsessed the US is? In my experience they do not. I know I was personally surprised by it initially.

Why is American culture so popular while the popularity of America itself is rather low? When Americans are the target of British ridicule, why are the Brits emulating Americans?

If this trend continues maybe the Brits will even start to get a reasonable grasp on the English language eventually.

Thoughts?

KyleW
04-12-2009, 06:35 AM
As a British citizen I'm totally open to Americanisation and American culture.

I guess this is just one opinion but as far as I can see we are rapidly becoming more americanised but we can't see it, its as if its just happening and we are embracing it.

This is difficult to write as I am trying to multi-task at the minute btw.

In my experience I don't think rap music is becoming as popular as the article describes. Sure its becoming more prominent but not at such an alarming rate, like the article suggests.

Its totally right about religion though and there is a huge lack of it over here. None of my friends go to church and I'm not sure whether its just a local thing to me but the only people that go to church are old, so whats going to happen in about 20 years time?

I have never grasped how big religion is in america. I understand church attendance is higher but how much higher? I think on the whole the Americans are more inspired than us brits. I see Barack Obama and the way he makes people feel, you would never get that with a political leader over here.

Hey, we know the English language, we invented it :D

wheelchairman
04-12-2009, 07:01 AM
A convergence with dominant cultures is inevitable. Britain just has to get used to the fact that it's no longer an empire, and that it's no longer it's own culture that it's exporting as much as importing a bit from the US. It's a trend that's been going on for 30-40 years and seems to just be a relatively small cultural thing.

Now I could go on and on about how Americanization is a bad thing. The term is so stupid and it's applied to everything in Europe. The health food craze is Americanization, being fat is Americanization, jogging was an American trend, eating McDonald's is American. The Americanization of higher education has ruined our university's. (I'm not even sure what that means but they were complaining about that quite heavily in Germany).

Anti-Americanism as a trend is something I find interesting. I had a professor who went a bit cerebral but was trying to explain that many Europeans want to 'impress' Americans. The adoption of American habits and then the condescending attitude.

Llamas
04-12-2009, 10:16 AM
Hey, we know the English language, we invented it :D

lol, not really! That's not to say that Americans "invented" it, but England didn't really, either! :P

Rutegard
04-12-2009, 11:32 AM
lol, not really! That's not to say that Americans "invented" it, but England didn't really, either! :P

she knows what she's talking about

zsk
04-12-2009, 11:44 AM
gernans are already "americanized":D
no,realy there's no different in lifestyles of german and american people except for older tradition....

Rutegard
04-12-2009, 11:46 AM
gernans are already "americanized":D
no,realy there's no different in lifestyles of german and american people except for older tradition....

everything is becoming more americanized...power of sugestion

disclaimer_07
04-12-2009, 12:03 PM
Yeah, it's all coming true...

wheelchairman
04-14-2009, 10:05 AM
gernans are already "americanized":D
no,realy there's no different in lifestyles of german and american people except for older tradition....

Wow that's retarded. Ever been to America?

KyleW
04-14-2009, 02:26 PM
lol, not really! That's not to say that Americans "invented" it, but England didn't really, either! :P

Then who invented it :P.

Well its named after us at least.

nameless
04-14-2009, 02:36 PM
theres nothing specific but with so many people from different backgrounds living in the uk its only natural the kinda traditional britsh ways were gonna change!

Gustavo
04-14-2009, 02:51 PM
Thing is: The entire world is becoming more Americanized (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4w9EksAo5hY).

wheelchairman
04-14-2009, 03:42 PM
Says a band that only sings in German?

Gustavo
04-14-2009, 04:17 PM
Says a band that only sings in German?

Well, actually, you kind of are "Americanizing" now. So, every single band in the world is now supposed to sing in English? German is spoken by more than 100 million people -- so, all these people are supposed to listen to songs in English? (Well, the lyrics do have some English parts, as you have probably noticed, like "I don't sing my mother tongue")
But anyway, Rammstein is Americanized too (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zYwlRH7R6DE), like the rest of the world.

PS: I'm not a big Rammstein fan, btw.

wheelchairman
04-14-2009, 04:42 PM
Is singing in English Americanization?

I didn't make any claims along those lines, I was saying that a band singing mostly in German would show a lack thereof.

I'm not saying Americanization doesn't exist, American culture is being adopted by local cultures in many places.

What I'm saying doesn't exist is the constant negative use of the term 'Americanization'. Germans are particularly bad at this, ironic sentence I know. However the issue still stands that Americanization is quite the buzz-word in Germany, from the academic community to sports, food, exercise, fast food, health food.

They'll do it for anything negative. Terms like 'working holiday' are seen as American, when in reality it's a Japanese concept (and far more in line with the proper stereotypes). There is a whole host of these things that are viewed as Americanization.

So in short, Europeans use the term 'Americanization' for all the negative changes in their own countries because it's acceptable. It's acceptable to be anti-American, so it's acceptable to blame Americans for literally any negative aspect of a country. I hate this so much because it's intellectually lazy, and it's extremely ignorant. Particularly because most of the people who use this term have never been to America, so what could they possibly know about Americanization?

I can go on. Do you want me to go on?

rise_and_fall
04-14-2009, 04:56 PM
Perhaps its WESTERNISATION, I mean sort of like globalisation. The USA are considered the leaders of the western world and i suppose other western countries are just trying to maintain some of the similar qualities and properties of the usa.

wheelchairman
04-14-2009, 05:05 PM
The term westernization is even worse as it covers even more distinct cultures and societies, and then tries to lump them as a process happening to other cultures.

In fact, the term globalization is notoriously undefined.

rise_and_fall
04-14-2009, 05:18 PM
The term westernization is even worse as it covers even more distinct cultures and societies, and then tries to lump them as a process happening to other cultures.

In fact, the term globalization is notoriously undefined.

Yeah thats true, i mean the " "ization has to have a source. And it wouldn't make much sense to say that the world is becoming more or like every other part of the world. Its becoming like one part of the world. Is it true to say that Americanisation in the western world has led to Westernisation in the rest of the world?

wheelchairman
04-14-2009, 05:37 PM
Do you believe Westernisation is happening in the rest of the world? Like in the middle east?

I believe they can and do buy American made products, I do not believe they are becoming more American though.

Llamas
04-14-2009, 06:05 PM
Thing is: The entire world is becoming more Americanized (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4w9EksAo5hY).

Oh Jesus Christ. You did not link that video... hahahahaha. I just used this video in a presentation last week about German songs about the US that most of Germany rejects for being really stupid/extreme and just plain out there. That song isn't really saying that the world is becoming Americanized, either; it's saying that the US thinks the entire world is theirs, and that everyone is beneath them. That the US has total control. Different concept.

Plus the members of Rammstein are not that intelligent, even if you do (unfortunately) enjoy their music.


Then who invented it :P.

Well its named after us at least.
Naw it's not named after you; English is really not all that different from old middle low German. In fact, it's closer to old middle low German than modern high German is. As people moved into England and the German language began to evolve, the Germans in England (who then became the English) spoke mostly only to each other... so the German evolved more because of the isolation, and the people in England started to call it "English". So REALLY, ze Germans invented it... but you can't even that cause German evolved from something, too. ;)

So all England really did was evolve a language away from old middle low German due to being isolated and rename it... well, America evolved a language away from British English due to being isolated. We just didn't rename it. :P And the Germans didn't rename their language, even though it evolved further from the origin than British English did... interesting concept. lol

I know your post was probably in jest, but I just tire of hearing people tell Americans that our English is wrong and doesn't make sense because British English is correct. It's every bit as correct, cause it's not like English was like Esperanto was supposed to be (invented and built from scratch with rules and patterns all laid out ahead of time... that's an invented language).

Gustavo
04-14-2009, 06:48 PM
WCM, you've got a good point. But what I wanted to show you mostly was the music video, not song itself. I'm not a Rammstein fan. But you see, McDonald's are everywhere, if you go to Japan now, you'll probably see some japanese kids dressed up like LA gangsta and this kinda stuff. And about the speaking English thing, what I meant is, everyone today learns English because of the USA, and most of the learners learn the American english (like me).



I can go on. Do you want me to go on?

Well, if you want to -- please. I really enjoyed your post.


Oh Jesus Christ. You did not link that video... hahahahaha. I just used this video in a presentation last week about German songs about the US that most of Germany rejects for being really stupid/extreme and just plain out there. That song isn't really saying that the world is becoming Americanized, either; it's saying that the US thinks the entire world is theirs, and that everyone is beneath them. That the US has total control. Different concept.


As I said above, it all wasn't quite about the song itself, it mostly was about the music video, not the song or the lyrics though. From my concept, what the video showed was people all around the world being influentioned by the American culture and using American stuff. Which is what actually happens, for example, I probably wouldn't be speaking English now if it were not true, if the USA had not influenced the world, my country and the business world itself, nowadays, everyone must have a "I speak English" section on their resumé.

zsk
04-15-2009, 01:08 PM
Wow that's retarded. Ever been to America?

no i wish i were able to go there,but every tv-show shows the life in america it's nearly the same here in germany

wheelchairman
04-15-2009, 01:17 PM
Well having been to both America and Germany, I can tell you that Germany does not have much in common with America, nor does life in Germany have much in common with life in American tv shows either. And to compound this, life in American tv shows isn't a good representation of life in America either.

America is a huge country, as is Germany, and these tv shows are usually fictional.

Llamas
04-15-2009, 01:51 PM
You know, in the global scheme, sure Germany seems similar to America... much of the US was settled by Germans, first of all, and second of all, America has had a lot of influence on Germany over the years through our relationship with Germany. However, saying Germany and the US are the same... well that just exposes the fact that you've never been here, haha. Not that it's a bad thing... but there are places much more similar to the US than Germany (take Australia, the UK, and Sweden, for example), and Germany has a LOT of differences.

But you're certainly right that there are plenty of similarities between the two countries... however, it's not necessarily due to Americanization of the world.

RageAndLov
04-16-2009, 06:28 AM
I don't think that goes for just Britain, I think it counts for the whole western civilization.


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090411/ap_on_re_eu/eu_americanization_spreads


"church attendance is still very low in Britain compared to the United States, and U.S. sports have not caught on"




Thank God!

Andy
04-16-2009, 09:22 AM
I've not read everyone's replies, but here's what I think:

This article seems to imply that Britain is the only country that is suffering from this Americana Virus. This isn't true; every Western country has its fair share of coffee shops, fast food outlets; every Western country has subcultures of youths who listen to rap music and wear baggy jeans. The typical English gent may be a thing of the past; but the same can be said about most other cultural stereotypes (i.e. the French beret/polo-neck shirt combo or the stereotypical image of Germans going around wearing lederhosen and chugging out of tankards).

I could say much much more, but I've got to put tea on.

batfish
04-16-2009, 09:24 AM
I didn't see "compensation culture" in the article; that's usually something Brits blame Americans for.

Is Indian / Chinese style food as popular in America as it is in Britain? A few years ago some politician (Robin Cook I think) called chicken tikka masala a "true British national dish".
I've never made it out of Europe yet so I can't comment much on American fast food. From what I've heard, Mexican style seems more popular over there. I don't know why the article mentions Mcdonalds and KFC in particular - they've been around and popular in Britain ever since I can remember. Nothing newsworthy. Subway and Starbucks are slightly more recent additions to every town.

Apart from what's already been mentioned, a big difference in culture is patriotism. The only open displays of patriotism I can think of here are on Remembrance Sunday, international football tournaments, and the last night of the proms. I get the impression that in America there's a lot more flag-waving and invoking of American values by politicians. Is that true or is that media spin?

Other splits are driving age and tests in the US appear to be less strict, attitude to alcohol is more strict.

British culture changed throughout history anyway. I don't see how anyone could find an original British culture to make a comparison. Surely it's always been influenced by other cultures.

wheelchairman
04-17-2009, 08:54 AM
I don't think that goes for just Britain, I think it counts for the whole western civilization.


Du er godt nok ikke den klogeste, vel?


I didn't see "compensation culture" in the article; that's usually something Brits blame Americans for.




What's compensation culture? Is that around law suits? I've got an interesting story about law suits I'll explain later when I'm more awake.

Rag Doll
04-17-2009, 09:09 AM
I get the impression that in America there's a lot more flag-waving and invoking of American values by politicians. Is that true or is that media spin?


oh, it's very true. there was a time period during the elections when for some reason Obama did not wear that little American flag lapel pin they all wear. he eventually started wearing it again. people STILL talk about this and say he is not fit to be president because he is not patriotic. gimme a break. the whole flag and American values thing is huge. like....ridiculously so. not all of the citizens are like this....it's mainly in more conservative areas. though, drive down the street in most suburbs and you'll see American flags in front of many homes.

Sidewinder
04-17-2009, 03:12 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XOOWJoriC1Y