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old_school_punk
05-31-2009, 09:39 AM
Who is credited for writing the song Hammerhead?

Hypodermic_89
05-31-2009, 09:42 AM
Umm.. Dexter Holland?

sneedo83
05-31-2009, 09:47 AM
I have a feeling I know where this thread is going....

Rooster
05-31-2009, 09:50 AM
I have some weird feeling here, too. But i'll wait to see if i'm right or no. I hope i'm not...

Oxygene
05-31-2009, 10:09 AM
Who is credited for writing the song Hammerhead?

Michael Jackson and a bunch of children.

Outerspaceman21
05-31-2009, 10:38 AM
Dexter Holland wrote Hammerhead, as for every other songs on every other album except where noted. Some people helped co-write a song, but it's all Dexter.

Gustavo
05-31-2009, 10:41 AM
Who is credited for writing the song Hammerhead?

Chuck Norris.

Hypodermic_89
05-31-2009, 11:00 AM
Chuck Norris is so smart that Stephen Hawking stood up to bow down to him.


This thread is now about Chuck Norris-jokes.

bighead384
05-31-2009, 11:16 AM
This is definitely someone trying to take The Letters Organize side on that whole controversy. That's amazing that they're still obsessed with this. It's definitely likely that Dexter subconsciously stole that riff by mistake, but that riff isn't even the best part of the song! Why are you going to care so much about someone stealing a part that's not even anything special? Plus, Dexter added that other chord in the riff that's not in TLO.

holland25
05-31-2009, 11:25 AM
They tossed-out guitar picks to the crowd with Offspring-ish artwork on it.

RageAndLov
05-31-2009, 11:53 AM
Dexter didn't write anything on RAFRAG. I have proof (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JB1BMLHwVgg)!

medi01
05-31-2009, 12:42 PM
personally i heard that they employed fat mike from NOFX to write ALL the songs

dff_punk
05-31-2009, 12:43 PM
Employed Fat Mike? That is sooo not tru punx!

Blitzkrieg Bop
05-31-2009, 12:43 PM
they tossed-out guitar picks to the crowd with offspring-ish artwork on it.

;)

Oh, I miss the old days :cool:

Oxygene
05-31-2009, 12:44 PM
I went and saw that blog entry and posted my response, it's awaiting moderation

I had this to say:

"I read the paranoid post, and most of the commentsÖ

A few things to add:
when did Dexter Holland write HammerheadÖ wooops. We donít know now do we? Even if he wrote it after this other band, it is 2 notes. Thatís like saying lit stole my own worst enemy from whoever first played that one note they play constantly on the guitar 57 times in a row annoyingly.

Second: it pisses me off that talentless shitty whiney bitches like these fucks got a chance, because they were lucky enough to have been born in a place where even dickless chickenshits get a shot at their passion, where as real good bands hailing from parts of the world where the membersí biggest worry used to be being taken to siberia into concentration camps for playing in a punk rock band have meaningless dead end jobs and are all but starving, and canít even dream about a shot at touring.

Thankless spoiled fucked up whining bitch pussy ass upper middle class clueless uneducated redneck reject jack offs. No sense of reality in your pussy ass bubble is there?"

http://threefortysevenaugusta.com/2008/06/the-offspring-vs-the-letters-organize/

medi01
05-31-2009, 12:56 PM
Employed Fat Mike? That is sooo not tru punx!

well ... err... offspring are clearly more jewish cultured hip hop than punx....clearly...same with nofx, ofcourse

dff_punk
05-31-2009, 01:04 PM
That explains why Fat Mike used the COAP riff in the MFATGG song "Hava Nagila" :rolleyes:

Oxygene
05-31-2009, 01:07 PM
This shit truly and utterly pisses me off... I'm so furious

medi01
05-31-2009, 01:07 PM
That explains why Fat Mike used the COAP riff in the MFATGG song "Hava Nagila" :rolleyes:

exactly! these 'punk' musicians really aren't what they claim to be

Oxygene
05-31-2009, 01:08 PM
You guys are joking around with this, but the truth is... this is a serious issue, and fucktards like the letters organize make me angry.

medi01
05-31-2009, 01:18 PM
You guys are joking around with this, but the truth is... this is a serious issue, and fucktards like the letters organize make me angry.

the fucktards on youtube r the most annoying, they are just so clueless, but u gotta except most of the world is retarded

SelfEsteem94
05-31-2009, 01:50 PM
That explains why Fat Mike used the COAP riff in the MFATGG song "Hava Nagila" :rolleyes:
haha,
i didnt know about this.

Jojan
05-31-2009, 01:50 PM
Din mamma. :-)

RageAndLov
05-31-2009, 01:55 PM
Farbror Jacob

The Search Button
05-31-2009, 02:04 PM
Who is credited for writing the song Hammerhead?

I did.

And I'm suing everyone who says otherwise.

Unless you have proofs.

dff_punk
05-31-2009, 02:13 PM
C'mon dude, you're just a button, you cannot write songs!

Rooster
05-31-2009, 02:39 PM
Credits for RAFRAG songs:

1.Half-Truism: Gerard Way (MCR), Rick Astley
2.Trust In You: Dexter Holland (the only song from RAFRAG written by Dexter, but back in 1994, it was previously released on Smash and has been re-recorded for RAFRAG), Rick Astley
3. You're Gonna Go Far, Kid: I-don't-know-what's-his-name guy, from Panic! At The Disco, Rick Astley
4. Hammerhead: Kurt Cobain, The Search Button, The Letters Organise, God, Rick Astley
5. A Lot Like Me: Chester Bennington, Mike Shinoda and that annoying singer from Coldplay, Rick Astley
6. Takes Me Nowhere: Brett Gurewitzzzzzzzz, Rick Astley
7. Kristy, Are You Doing Okay?: Billie Joe Armstrong (Green Day), Rick Astley
8. Nothingtown: Billie Joe Armstrong (Green Day), Fat Mike, Rick Astley
9. Stuff is Messed Up: Pope Benedict XVI, Rick Astley
10. Fix You: Billie Joe Armstrong (Green Day), Justin Dumberlake, Rick Astley
11. Let's Hear It for Rock Bottom: Phil Collins, Bono, Rick Astley
12. Rise and Fall: Billie Joe Armstrong (but then again, he ripped it off from Dillinger Four), Rick Astley

[/sarcasm]

edit: found some new information about songwriters, so i edited my post...

The Search Button
05-31-2009, 02:46 PM
C'mon dude, you're just a button, you cannot write songs!

You telling me I'll never have horny groupies, gay stalkers and free beer?

NOOOOOOoooooooooooo....................!

ad8
05-31-2009, 02:49 PM
http://threefortysevenaugusta.com/2008/06/the-offspring-vs-the-letters-organize/

Oh my god. That's one pathetic attempt at attention whoring. I mean, what the fuck? The riffs are not even the same. Dexter can't reinvent guitar chords or music, god dammit.

Rooster
05-31-2009, 02:53 PM
You telling me I'll never have horny groupies, gay stalkers and free beer?

NOOOOOOoooooooooooo....................!

Don't worry, Dexter told me you helped to write Hammerhead, which means you can write songs. So maybe you'll still have horny groupies, gay stalkers and free beer...

ad8
05-31-2009, 02:56 PM
All I know is that Trust In You was written by Greg K. ... Dexter even said so!:D

Oxygene
05-31-2009, 03:18 PM
All I know is that Trust In You was written by Greg K. ... Dexter even said so!:D

yeah yeah yeah

chriiis
05-31-2009, 03:26 PM
Mahatma Ghandi

RageAndLov
05-31-2009, 03:31 PM
Raptor you forgot to mention that Fat Mike co-wrote Nothingtown

Rooster
05-31-2009, 03:43 PM
Seriously, i'm tired of all this "this band ripped off that band" bullshit. I challenge those whiners to try and write something that hasn't been done already. You can't invent new powerchords goddammit (or, if you manage to do that somehow, i'd be more than happy to hear it).

Almost everything has already been done. These aren't the 70's when punk rock was forming, when there were just a few punk bands around. Now we have THOUSANDS of punk rock bands, and it's natural that some riffs will inevitably sound similar. But still, either you take that Stay Away bass part or the Letter's Organise trademarketed riff, The Offspring Delivered them in a different fashion than Nirvana or TLO, they sound different enough.

I have my own band. We make the songs we like, the songs that we enjoy. We are influenced by the bands we listen to, and naturaly some riff sounds similar. We don't steal from other bands, but i'm sure we didn't invent anything really new. It's impossible (or almost impossible) to invent something 100 % new and original. We just do what we want, what pleases us. Cut all the crap about ripping off other bands, just listen to the music and enjoy it.

Rooster
05-31-2009, 03:44 PM
Raptor you forgot to mention that Fat Mike co-wrote Nothingtown

Damn! Thanks for notifying me, i'll edit it...

Oxygene
05-31-2009, 03:57 PM
I have my own band.

You seem to keep saying that / talking about that in like every post to the point where I've actually gotten curious. What's the name of the band?

dff_punk
05-31-2009, 03:58 PM
They don't have a band name yet :rolleyes:

Rooster
05-31-2009, 04:03 PM
You seem to keep saying that / talking about that in like every post to the point where I've actually gotten curious. What's the name of the band?

Hmm, i guess you're right, i didn't even realize until now... Eh, probably it's because i'm just so happy that i'm finally in a band (i've been searching foe other members for quite some time) :D We're still deciding about the name...

Anyway, this whole ripoff thing is just ridiculous, but i guess i was right from the beginning, i felt this thread was going this way... Although the creator hasn't posted again since the thread's creation. I still hope the idea of this thread was different.

edit: dff-punk was faster...

Outerspaceman21
05-31-2009, 04:41 PM
Fine, I'll admit it. I wrote Hammerhead. Dexter called me up a while back and asked if I had some lyrics lying around. I also wrote Half-Truism and Takes Me Nowhere


And Randman21 wrote the rest of the album. Thats why it just oozes sexy.

AllIn All It's Not So Bad
05-31-2009, 04:53 PM
i'm not saying that the offspring ripped off nirvana but these sound very alike
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B0b-Sm6YKiw
they should rip themselves more often. it keeps the offspring-ish feel
kinda like nothingtown sounds like want you bad, trust in you like smash, and americana like no brakes. they should make something that sounds like "staring at the sun"
sweet dreams sounds like dirty magic

Rooster
05-31-2009, 04:54 PM
Credits for RAFRAG songs:

1.Half-Truism: Gerard Way (MCR), Rick Astley
2.Trust In You: Dexter Holland (the only song from RAFRAG written by Dexter, but back in 1994, it was previously released on Smash and has been re-recorded for RAFRAG), Rick Astley
3. You're Gonna Go Far, Kid: I-don't-know-what's-his-name guy, from Panic! At The Disco, Rick Astley
4. Hammerhead: Kurt Cobain, The Search Button, The Letters Organise, God, Rick Astley
5. A Lot Like Me: Chester Bennington, Mike Shinoda and that annoying singer from Coldplay, Rick Astley
6. Takes Me Nowhere: Brett Gurewitzzzzzzzz, Rick Astley
7. Kristy, Are You Doing Okay?: Billie Joe Armstrong (Green Day), Rick Astley
8. Nothingtown: Billie Joe Armstrong (Green Day), Fat Mike, Rick Astley
9. Stuff is Messed Up: Pope Benedict XVI, Rick Astley
10. Fix You: Billie Joe Armstrong (Green Day), Justin Dumberlake, Rick Astley
11. Let's Hear It for Rock Bottom: Phil Collins, Bono, Rick Astley
12. Rise and Fall: Billie Joe Armstrong (but then again, he ripped it off from Dillinger Four), Rick Astley


I'm pretty sure these are the right credits...

No, really, i'm Bob Rock, i produced the album, and Dexter told me everything...

Cock Joke
05-31-2009, 06:13 PM
I have a feeling I know where this thread is going....


I have some weird feeling here, too. But i'll wait to see if i'm right or no. I hope i'm not...

Something pertaining to guitar picks and artwork stylized after a certain favorite band?

Rooster
05-31-2009, 06:19 PM
Something pertaining to guitar picks and artwork stylized after a certain favorite band?

No, not THAT feeling :D

I just thought this would soon turn into discussion about The Offspring ripping other bands off... But i still wait for the thread starter to confirm that this was his intention.

edit: I don't know why are there so many people who are picking RAFRAG as an example when it comes to ripping off other bands. I mean what the hell? I've heard quite a few worse cases (they would have to be worse by the standards of the ones who accuse one band of copying another, as i just get annoyed about those claims) than RAFRAG songs. Why don't they just leave us alone and let us enjoy the album as it is (it's my favorite Offspring album, followed closely by Ixnay).

Damn douches...

Little_Miss_1565
05-31-2009, 06:28 PM
What, you guys didn't get enough of this the first time this hit the forums? I sure did.

And Jesus Fucking Christ, Oxy. Your response A YEAR LATER to that blog posting was totally uncalled for.

randman21
05-31-2009, 06:31 PM
Fine, I'll admit it. I wrote Hammerhead. Dexter called me up a while back and asked if I had some lyrics lying around. I also wrote Half-Truism and Takes Me Nowhere


And Randman21 wrote the rest of the album. Thats why it just oozes sexy.
<3<3 So that's why Hammerhead is my favorite song.


You guys are joking around with this, but the truth is... this is a serious issue, and fucktards like the letters organize make me angry.
Is this your first time reading about this, Oxy? I mean, this is year old stuff, so we had our fair share of outrage last year, when the blog was first posted. Heh, you'll even see some comments from names you recognize farther down the list. :D

Outerspaceman21
05-31-2009, 08:33 PM
i'm not saying that the offspring ripped off nirvana but these sound very alike
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B0b-Sm6YKiw
they should rip themselves more often. it keeps the offspring-ish feel
kinda like nothingtown sounds like want you bad, trust in you like smash, and americana like no brakes. they should make something that sounds like "staring at the sun"
sweet dreams sounds like dirty magic

Thank you. Thats what I was going for.


<3<3 So that's why Hammerhead is my favorite song.

Wrote it just for you.

IamSam
05-31-2009, 08:37 PM
What, you guys didn't get enough of this the first time this hit the forums? I sure did.

And Jesus Fucking Christ, Oxy. Your response A YEAR LATER to that blog posting was totally uncalled for.

Wait. Oxy you posted on there? Oh for fucks sake.

This all needs a rest. We all know that this is a 'go nowhere' topic. So we should do just that, let it go nowhere.

sneedo83
05-31-2009, 08:50 PM
When I read this thread this morning this is exactly what I envisioned.

Oxygene
06-01-2009, 03:58 AM
What, you guys didn't get enough of this the first time this hit the forums? I sure did.

Yeah 'cause you moderate.


And Jesus Fucking Christ, Oxy. Your response A YEAR LATER to that blog posting was totally uncalled for.

Well I'm sorry I didn't run into this earlier, this is the first time I've ever heard about this, and read that blog post. I think my post is not the least bit uncalled for, what's uncalled for is that pissy bitchy attitude that dude took with Dexter and Noodles, and I'm not gonna hold my oppinion back, because the post is a year old or whatever. Sarah, looks to me you have no idea what the chance that shitty band got means. Like I said they are ungreatful spoiled rich fucks. I've played shows together with and know dudes who were sent to PRISON for many years for playing in a punk rock band. I am not going to apologize for my attitude in defending someone I know who gave these dickless motherfuckers a chance and who couldn't take it and now they are pissing all over them. Instead of being greatful they launch a personal attack. Fuckwads.



Is this your first time reading about this, Oxy? I mean, this is year old stuff, so we had our fair share of outrage last year, when the blog was first posted. Heh, you'll even see some comments from names you recognize farther down the list. :D

Yes it is, and I don't care what people think about me for having my opinion. I would've given my right arm to have our record put out on Nitro, and we weren't lucky enough to get that chance. When I see some second rate schmuck who has talk shit about people like Noodles - who I geniunley care for as person, or Dexter who I look upto for what he's done in life with his studies and band and as an artist.. both of whom have been so generous and nice to me, I can't even begin to explain, of course I'm gonna get pissed off. Spoiled clueless bitchass whiney bubbleboys. goddamit.


Wait. Oxy you posted on there? Oh for fucks sake.

This all needs a rest. We all know that this is a 'go nowhere' topic. So we should do just that, let it go nowhere.

You gotta speak up and yell out your peace :p

randman21
06-01-2009, 04:34 AM
Holy Fuck. I just had a huge-ass case of deja vu reading Oxy's post. I'm not even attempting some kind of passive-aggressive insult at him, I just wanted to state that.

Oxy, at the end of the day, no matter how lucky they were to get a break (on the best label evarrrr), stealing one's art is the ultimate transgression. You can't get any lower than that. If they think Dexter did they, they have the right to be pissed. Heh, they also have the right to be wrong, which they've exercised to the fullest in this case. But I don't care if it's Dexter, Noodles, or my mama, if I thought someone stole my music, they are dead to me.

I still think they are talentless hacks, but I just had to look from their POV for a sec.

Llamas
06-01-2009, 05:08 AM
Ha, I posted a comment on that blog... also, this is beyond pathetic:


Okay, Iíve read the entire article, listened to the songs, and even read every single comment thatís up here.

I am going to start off with the bias opinions that are posted up here about The Offspring, The Didjits, Agent Orange, and ESPECIALLY The Letters Organize.
Just because you like one band more than the other, or think that one sucks and the other doesnít, does not mean that you can say that one did not rip off the other. There are great similarities in both songs, but I am by way no professional, nor am I a critic of any sort, just a fan. The same goes for the rest of you all. But it is safe to say that The Offspring may just as well have copied that rift and parts of The Letters Organized song Matador. They have been at fault for doing this before, so they do have a history there, whatís to stop them from doing it again? Nothing.
Next thing, this is common to see people take a stand for the Major label band or the more popular one instead of the underdog. Why? Itís human nature to stand up for and with the populous and not stand out and speaking for what is right.
If it were up to me, I would atleast try and talk with The Offspring, and if that gets no where, then take it to court possibly.

Now lets get started with the comments.
They are Biased. End of story.
ALMOST every band wishes to make it big, some donít. But letís face it, who wouldnít take up that chance? Even if Garrett Range is a little bitter or ticked about the falling apart of his past band, that doesnít mean he cannot post this and point out the obviousness of the tracks here. Iím sure a lot of you all who are trying to degrade him and The Letters Organize are guilty about bitching and whining before. So donít even try to make him look bad, because itís not working.
Then there is the cords that you all keep bringing up. Yes Iím sure thatís a common cord, yes Iím sure you can find a lot of other bands using it. But can you find a lot of other bands using that cord, and the same drum beat at one point. Highly doubtable.
After that. Yes The Letters Organize sound like a lot of other bands, but that means nothing. Never has and never will. There are a lot of bands to date that sound a lot like each other or former bands from former decades. You going to bash on them too? No, either because they are big, or this problem has not arisen with them, and you could really care less about it.
Now there is the guy who posted as Dexter Holland. You can quite obviously tell that is not him. He would be associating directly with Garrett Range and the other members of The Letters Organize if it was, not posting stupid remarks about himself on this comment board.
Also, the person that claimed to be the forum moderator for the thread that was on the link is not who they claim to be either. How did I reach that conclusion you ask yourself? Again, they would directly approach Range and The Letters Organize to fix this problem. Plus there is no reason for this person to posting on the comment board, why admit to it when it does not really matter? There was no REAL reason stated other than to ďkill the dramaĒ.

That is the end of my comment and everything dealing with this.
Garrett you can reach me via my Email if you want, because obviously Iím no fool and Iím not here to bash on anyone. Only to clear things up.

At the end of this can you tell if Iím biased? Not really. I have not stated that I like either The Letters Organize or The Offspring more than the other. Can you tell? Not really. But I am a fan of both bands to make this stated.

I never saw that one before... jesus christ.

Oh, and Oxy's post was tasteless. Cussing and insulting with every other word doesn't get you anywhere.

findout5
06-01-2009, 05:51 AM
Dexter wrote every song on the record, as always!

This is a waste of thread! And the guy who made it only hase one post and waited for everyone to go where he wanted them to go...guess what? Many fell for that!

Oxygene
06-01-2009, 06:23 AM
Holy Fuck. I just had a huge-ass case of deja vu reading Oxy's post. I'm not even attempting some kind of passive-aggressive insult at him, I just wanted to state that.

Oxy, at the end of the day, no matter how lucky they were to get a break (on the best label evarrrr), stealing one's art is the ultimate transgression. You can't get any lower than that. If they think Dexter did they, they have the right to be pissed. Heh, they also have the right to be wrong, which they've exercised to the fullest in this case. But I don't care if it's Dexter, Noodles, or my mama, if I thought someone stole my music, they are dead to me.

I still think they are talentless hacks, but I just had to look from their POV for a sec.

They have a right to a bunch of things.. they also have a right to take a shit next to the deathbed of their dying mothers. That should help put the "they've got a right..." argument into perspective for ya. And since your such an expert on rights, did you ever hear about the right that someone has to be treated as innocent until proven guilty? So I guess not only is this whole "they have a right" a sack of shit of an argument but apperantly, they don't even have the right. Whooops.

If I wasn't clear enough let me state this again: my problem is with them getting the chance and opportunity from these guys and launching personal attacks on them.
You'll notice I didn't really address the song stealing issue... or was that difficult to decipher?

One of the reasons we can't know for sure is we don't know when Hammerhead was written. Fuck mission from God was written in the 80s an released in like what 05? The kids intro was written after smash and released on americana, pay the man was recorded during the Ixnay sessions. Truth is noone really knows which happened when and lashing out and launching a personal attack on someone with out even having the facts, is simply of bad taste and being retarted. It's almost as bad as coming to the defence of such douchbags :)
Not to mention Dexter doesn't strike me as the kind of guy who would do that.

On the music note: I'd be fucking extatic if someone stole my music. Esp the Offspring. I couldn't think of a more sincere compliment =)



Oh, and Oxy's post was tasteless. Cussing and insulting with every other word doesn't get you anywhere.

Oh noez I didn't gets the seal of approval of someone who was fine with his dumbfuck friend putting down the whole nation of Norway.. what is I gonna do now? Look at how these guys talked about Noodles. I'm no better than them :cool:

Little_Miss_1565
06-01-2009, 07:21 AM
I don't give a fuck who's right and who's wrong, who stole and who didn't, who's lucky and who's not. It is not okay for the fans of this band to viciously attack another band for something that may or may not have been totally shitty of them to say. Can you really not see how all you're doing is telling them that they're right about all the shitty things they're saying about Dexter because his fans are so immature? And seriously, Oxy, your excuse is that you've only seen it now? If you're late to the party it doesn't start over again just for you.

randman21
06-01-2009, 07:38 AM
They have a right to a bunch of things.. they also have a right to take a shit next to the deathbed of their dying mothers. That should help put the "they've got a right..." argument into perspective for ya. And since your such an expert on rights, did you ever hear about the right that someone has to be treated as innocent until proven guilty? So I guess not only is this whole "they have a right" a sack of shit of an argument but apperantly, they don't even have the right. Whooops.

Okay, are you really making this about actual rights? I was clearly not talking about the legality of being mad because someone stole your song. I was saying that it would be justified, if they had reason to believe that that happened. And no, you do not have the right to take a shit next to your mother's deathbed. And the right of "innocence until proven guilty" isn't even relevant, because they are not in a court of law, so TLO do indeed have the right to say what they did, since you want to argue semantics.



If I wasn't clear enough let me state this again: my problem is with them getting the chance and opportunity from these guys and launching personal attacks on them.
And I addressed that, did I not? To paraphrase myself, I said that I don't care who gave me what opportunity, all bets are off if you steal my intellectual property (please do not single the word "intellectual" out of this whole post and argue that). Was that hard to decipher?



It's almost as bad as coming to the defence of such douchbags :)
If that was directed at me, I wasn't defending them, and you know it. I'm just done with the outrage over it because this issue IS A YEAR OLD. Have you noticed that the Offspring hasn't been sued over Hammerhead? That's because there's no grounds for a suit, and I realize that. And again: The Offspring did not steal Hammerhead from The Letter Organize, I know this and I am not defending them.


On the music note: I'd be fucking extatic if someone stole my music. Esp the Offspring. I couldn't think of a more sincere compliment =)Then you, sir, need to write songs you can be more proud of. I would certainly not be ecstatic.

EDIT: 1565, sorry for falling for the Oxy-bait. Heh, I knew I was doing it before I posted, but I just had to reply. :o

Little_Miss_1565
06-01-2009, 07:46 AM
It's fine, Randman. I just completely fail to understand how anyone doesn't see that this is not about the specific "what" of this argument, but the "how." Reviving old flamewars is ridiculous, and Oxy, don't take this the wrong way but your arguments no matter how valid in parts are completely invalidated by the way in which you have presented them. Just. Freaking. Stop.

Oxygene
06-01-2009, 10:11 AM
I don't give a fuck who's right and who's wrong, who stole and who didn't, who's lucky and who's not. It is not okay for the fans of this band to viciously attack another band for something that may or may not have been totally shitty of them to say. Can you really not see how all you're doing is telling them that they're right about all the shitty things they're saying about Dexter because his fans are so immature? And seriously, Oxy, your excuse is that you've only seen it now? If you're late to the party it doesn't start over again just for you.

Well I am not a "fan of this band", in this argument at all. I have a personal stake in this, on more than one level actually - funny that that's news to you. My excuse? What the fuck do I need to be excused for again?


Okay, are you really making this about actual rights? I was clearly not talking about the legality of being mad because someone stole your song. I was saying that it would be justified, if they had reason to believe that that happened. And no, you do not have the right to take a shit next to your mother's deathbed. And the right of "innocence until proven guilty" isn't even relevant, because they are not in a court of law, so TLO do indeed have the right to say what they did, since you want to argue semantics.

And I'm saying it isn't justified to launch a personal attack if they have reason to believe. Or if they do, where does it stop? Can they attack them phisically too, or just verbally? How about their associates? Can they attack Bob Rock, since he's a partner in crime? Can they attack their families, since they might've known? Guilty by association anyone?
And yes, you actually do have a right to take a shit next to your mothers deathbed. I'm sorry, but you simply do. What do you think adult diapers were invented for? :D Taking this whole thing to a philosophical level is pointless.. realistic morals dictate that someone be treated as an innocent person until it's proven otherwise. You should spend some time in places where that's not always a given, widen your horizont.


And I addressed that, did I not? To paraphrase myself, I said that I don't care who gave me what opportunity, all bets are off if you steal my intellectual property (please do not single the word "intellectual" out of this whole post and argue that). Was that hard to decipher?

All bets are off... thank god noone is considering stealing it eh? I wouldn't wanna see the headline "Randman slaughters family of Britney Spears over 2 guitar chords" :D


If that was directed at me, I wasn't defending them, and you know it. I'm just done with the outrage over it because this issue IS A YEAR OLD. Have you noticed that the Offspring hasn't been sued over Hammerhead? That's because there's no grounds for a suit, and I realize that. And again: The Offspring did not steal Hammerhead from The Letter Organize, I know this and I am not defending them.

Well there's another fundamental difference between you and me.. I haven't seen this issue. Another one follows..


Then you, sir, need to write songs you can be more proud of. I would certainly not be ecstatic.

Srsly.. Dude a little humbleness would go a long way. Listen to shit you've done, and listen to shit I've done before getting all self-righteous and pompus about this.


EDIT: 1565, sorry for falling for the Oxy-bait. Heh, I knew I was doing it before I posted, but I just had to reply. :o

I'm sure she would've gotten a smaller aneurysm if you had addressed anything I actually said instead of dragging this into a "why you think someone who thinks their music has been stolen is allowed to rape little babies" propaganda thing.


It's fine, Randman. I just completely fail to understand how anyone doesn't see that this is not about the specific "what" of this argument, but the "how." Reviving old flamewars is ridiculous, and Oxy, don't take this the wrong way but your arguments no matter how valid in parts are completely invalidated by the way in which you have presented them. Just. Freaking. Stop.

It's funny how you seem so capable of understanding how this is not about the specific "what" of this argument, but the "how.", yet you fail to understand that my issue is not with the accusation of intellectual property theft but the way they rolled out on it. I know you have absolutley zero clue as to where I'm coming from on this - you've proved that time and again - but I have every reason to be furious at these people, and I'm dragging noone into this with me. What I don't understand is if this issue is so over for you what is it that drives you to address it?

Little_Miss_1565
06-01-2009, 10:59 AM
Because you've taken it upon yourself to revive it after it's been dead for a year? The people on that site don't know you're friends with the band. They don't know you from Adam. To them you are just another angry fan coming at them with a lot of ugly names.

Oxygene
06-01-2009, 11:52 AM
Because you've taken it upon yourself to revive it after it's been dead for a year? The people on that site don't know you're friends with the band. They don't know you from Adam. To them you are just another angry fan coming at them with a lot of ugly names.

Sarah, I get your point, but the fact that people on the site think I'm writing because I'm just another angry fan is great proof of their open mindness and their understanding and grasp of reality and truth.

I understand where you are coming from, and my intetnion wasn't to cause another shit storm for you believe me. And I hope I didn't..

But equating what I did there and what I'm doing with angry teenage fandom zOmg dexter's sexy shit is plain wrong... no matter who does it.

And this has nothing to do with being friends with the band. Or very little. More like shit to do with my own band, but let's not derail.

Little_Miss_1565
06-01-2009, 12:26 PM
I hear you. This is clearly a heated and probably delicate situation between a dude who runs a label and a band that used to be on that label. Shouldn't we do all we can to not inflame that situation?

Oxygene
06-01-2009, 12:33 PM
I hear you. This is clearly a heated and probably delicate situation between a dude who runs a label and a band that used to be on that label. Shouldn't we do all we can to not inflame that situation?

Yes to a certain extent your approach is reasonable, however once he starts writing shit about Noodles and stuff I think diplomacy and reserved behaviour go out the window for me.

AllIn All It's Not So Bad
06-01-2009, 01:56 PM
And the guy who made it only has one post and waited for everyone to go where he wanted them to go...guess what? Many fell for that!
that is exactly right. i just posted once pointing out something. and a second time pointing out what you said.
i think we need a lawyer for all of this rights shit.
Do we have a lawyer in the house?

randman21
06-02-2009, 05:02 AM
Oxy, first of all, fuck you for the adult diapers thing. :D I totally didn't think of that, haha. To all of the incontinent folks out there, I assure you that I am sensitive to your plight and would never trivialize your condition. :P

Second, addressed everything you said. Whether or not you choose to acknowledge that is different. Also, I am a completely humble when it comes to my music, and what I said earlier has nothing to do with humility or the quality of a song. I have written incredibly horrific stuff in my time, but any of it was stolen, you know...baby rape and all that jazz. And I would compare our songs if you had posted a link to your band's stuff like that one guy had asked. :P Seriously, I'm interested.

Now, I'm out of this, because it all comes down to a difference of opinion. Which is 100% fine with me.

Oxygene
06-02-2009, 05:09 AM
Oxy, first of all, fuck you for the adult diapers thing. :D I totally didn't think of that, haha. To all of the incontinent folks out there, I assure you that I am sensitive to your plight and would never trivialize your condition. :P

Second, addressed everything you said. Whether or not you choose to acknowledge that is different. Also, I am a completely humble when it comes to my music, and what I said earlier has nothing to do with humility or the quality of a song. I have written incredibly horrific stuff in my time, but any of it was stolen, you know...baby rape and all that jazz. And I would compare our songs if you had posted a link to your band's stuff like that one guy had asked. :P Seriously, I'm interested.

Now, I'm out of this, because it all comes down to a difference of opinion. Which is 100% fine with me.

Well I did post one of our cover songs in the other thread you were in.. there is a myspace someone made for us at some point I think
deadbeatshun or thedeadbeatshun or something like that..

Yeah it is this: http://www.myspace.com/thedeadbeatshun

Btw you are aware that the orwellian concept of saying shit many times is going to make it true is in fact bullshit right?

randman21
06-02-2009, 05:15 AM
Btw you are aware that the orwellian concept of saying shit many times is going to make it true is in fact bullshit right?
Remember when I said I was done? Yeah...

Harleyquiiinn
06-02-2009, 06:41 AM
Hey everybody,

I've been coming here for a while but never found the courage to register but when I saw a thread talking about copies AND someone asking if there is a lawyer I couldn't resist :D

So, I am a french Intellectual property lawyer, and I can't say that what I will write necessarily applies in the US but I would say that it is probably not too different.

To tell if there is a copy or not, here, we appreciate the art work as a whole because as a lot of people told here before, creativity is not unlimited and, especially in some music style as punk, you will find similar riffs.
On the contrary, you can find 2 songs that have no similar riffs can be considered copy if they give to the " normal listener" the same impression...

Also, for something to be protected by copyright (or author rights) it must be original. There are no doubts that each song is original but the riff only is not really original in itself. Therefore, there must be some other similarities to prove that Hammerhead is a copy. And I don't see any other...

So here we have two songs. They do not look alike (IMO) except for that riff which is extremely similar.

But:
- Each of the songs give a very different impression
- That riff is not particulary original.

My conclusion is that an action against The Offspring would probably be unsuccessful. But of course, this type of action is never sure. If they have a judge who considers that everything with an electric guitar on it is noise anyway, they might lose. But to someone who has a clue, it definitely won't work.

That said, I completely unterstand that the other band felt bad about this... in my experience, people are very very protective of their ideas and don't always realize that there is nothing very original or new about it. That is a normal reaction when you work hard on something, especially art...

Oh and hello everybody. Glad I have joined the board :)

Rutegard
06-02-2009, 06:55 AM
Oh and hello everybody. Glad I have joined the board :)

welcome

nice post dude :D

medi01
06-02-2009, 06:57 AM
loool .

randman21
06-02-2009, 07:02 AM
This is the (non-ironically) best first post ever. Welcome, and stick around for a while. :)

Oh, and thanks a lot for the insight.

Harleyquiiinn
06-02-2009, 07:04 AM
Thanks Randman and Rutegard :)

Rooster
06-02-2009, 01:18 PM
Yep, welcome to the boards!

And like Randy said, stick around.

Oxygene
06-02-2009, 01:29 PM
Remember when I said I was done? Yeah...

Yeah, I'm sure I'd be done too if the tables were turned =)

AllIn All It's Not So Bad
06-02-2009, 02:28 PM
Hey everybody,

I've been coming here for a while but never found the courage to register but when I saw a thread talking about copies AND someone asking if there is a lawyer I couldn't resist :D

So, I am a french Intellectual property lawyer, and I can't say that what I will write necessarily applies in the US but I would say that it is probably not too different.

To tell if there is a copy or not, here, we appreciate the art work as a whole because as a lot of people told here before, creativity is not unlimited and, especially in some music style as punk, you will find similar riffs.
On the contrary, you can find 2 songs that have no similar riffs can be considered copy if they give to the " normal listener" the same impression...

Also, for something to be protected by copyright (or author rights) it must be original. There are no doubts that each song is original but the riff only is not really original in itself. Therefore, there must be some other similarities to prove that Hammerhead is a copy. And I don't see any other...

So here we have two songs. They do not look alike (IMO) except for that riff which is extremely similar.

But:
- Each of the songs give a very different impression
- That riff is not particulary original.

My conclusion is that an action against The Offspring would probably be unsuccessful. But of course, this type of action is never sure. If they have a judge who considers that everything with an electric guitar on it is noise anyway, they might lose. But to someone who has a clue, it definitely won't work.

That said, I completely unterstand that the other band felt bad about this... in my experience, people are very very protective of their ideas and don't always realize that there is nothing very original or new about it. That is a normal reaction when you work hard on something, especially art...

Oh and hello everybody. Glad I have joined the board :)
oh shit
i didn't think i would attract a lawyer with my post
and welcome here
my post should be second best since because of it that he posted

dff_punk
06-02-2009, 02:39 PM
my post should be second best since because of it that he posted

Dude, don't give yourself too much credit. If Letters Organize wouldn't rip off Hammerhead, none of this would happen in the first place :p

AllIn All It's Not So Bad
06-02-2009, 02:42 PM
Dude, don't give yourself too much credit. If Letters Organize wouldn't rip off Hammerhead, none of this would happen in the first place :p
that is true. and im confused as hell. did the offspring rip Letters Organize, or did Letters Organize rip off the offspring

dff_punk
06-02-2009, 02:44 PM
The egg came first, and then it ripped off the chicken.

Offspring-Junkie
06-03-2009, 08:46 AM
This is the (non-ironically) best first post ever. Welcome, and stick around for a while. :)

Oh, and thanks a lot for the insight.

Yes, true indeed. Welcome lawyer.

SelfEsteem94
06-03-2009, 04:30 PM
Who is credited for writing the song Hammerhead?
your mom
.

Harleyquiiinn
06-04-2009, 04:12 AM
Thanks everyone, I think I'll stay for a while ;)

old_school_punk
06-04-2009, 11:20 AM
Personally, I could care less about a talentless band (The Letter Organize... stupid band name anyway) whining about one 4 chord progression that they don't even play well. If they had any any evidence to back up their claim, you wouldn't hear a word out of them until after the court case had ended.

Can't someone be interested in just finding out some information? I guess I should have just listened to all the gossip & lies being spread all over the internet and taken that as truth instead of asking at the source (like 99.9% of the people on the internet do). Yes, it sounds like the Kinks but if Ray or Dave Davies or the label that owns the rights to that recording haven't said anything up to this point, I don't think they will.

(If I really wanted to start shit, it wouldn't be about that particular song or about writing credits either. It would be about the drummer's playing on the cover song.)

Outerspaceman21
06-04-2009, 02:00 PM
Can't someone be interested in just finding out some information? I guess I should have just listened to all the gossip & lies being spread all over the internet and taken that as truth instead of asking at the source (like 99.9% of the people on the internet do). Yes, it sounds like the Kinks but if Ray or Dave Davies or the label that owns the rights to that recording haven't said anything up to this point, I don't think they will.

(If I really wanted to start shit, it wouldn't be about that particular song or about writing credits either. It would be about the drummer's playing on the cover song.)

People are getting frustrated because, honestly, a quick google or wikipedia search would have sufficed.

And what cover are talking about exactly?

old_school_punk
06-04-2009, 03:52 PM
The cover I'm referring to is O.C. Life (or are you going to tell me that Dexter wrote that song, too).

Outerspaceman21
06-04-2009, 06:34 PM
The cover I'm referring to is O.C. Life (or are you going to tell me that Dexter wrote that song, too).

Don't be an asshole. I didn't knew what the fuck you were talking about. You have to be more specific then just "The cover song".

Oh, that Rikk Agnew wrote that one. D.I. RULES!!!!!

old_school_punk
06-05-2009, 12:13 AM
I realize I should have been more specific (since there seems to be a lot of confusion as to which songs on Rise & Fall, Rage & Grace exactly are covers).

The Offspring does a fairly credible version (better than Zebrahead's attempt to butcher a good song) of O.C. Life. They did change some of the lyrics (which is no big deal) but after the first chorus, the drummer goes completely ape shit on the crash cymbal to where at times is starts to drown out the rest of the band.

Yes, I know Rikk Agnew wrote O.C. Life all by himself and D.I. use to be a good band when Rikk & Alfie Agnew were still members. As far as D.I. ruling... Rikk's current band totally blows away anything the current version of D.I. and the current version of the Adolescents have done. There is no comparasion.

Oxygene
06-05-2009, 01:55 AM
I realize I should have been more specific (since there seems to be a lot of confusion as to which songs on Rise & Fall, Rage & Grace exactly are covers).

The Offspring does a fairly credible version (better than Zebrahead's attempt to butcher a good song) of O.C. Life. They did change some of the lyrics (which is no big deal) but after the first chorus, the drummer goes completely ape shit on the crash cymbal to where at times is starts to drown out the rest of the band.

Yes, I know Rikk Agnew wrote O.C. Life all by himself and D.I. use to be a good band when Rikk & Alfie Agnew were still members. As far as D.I. ruling... Rikk's current band totally blows away anything the current version of D.I. and the current version of the Adolescents have done. There is no comparasion.

Did you just trash Josh Freese?

Nice call!

old_school_punk
06-05-2009, 04:02 AM
If a drummer (with as much experience recording as he has), doesn't know when it is appropriate to use his cymbals during the recording of a song... then YES, I am trashing Josh Freese.

Rooster
06-05-2009, 05:42 AM
...I guess I should have just listened to all the gossip & lies being spread all over the internet and taken that as truth instead of asking at the source (like 99.9% of the people on the internet do). Yes, it sounds like the Kinks...

You know, you still didn't ask at the source. If you want to do so, there is a thread for all the questions for Dexter Holland in General Offspring Discussion (in other words: this section of the forum). Why don't you just adress your question directly the source, Dexter then? "Hello, Dexter. Umm, you don't know me, but i was just interested if, umm, you know, you ripped off The Kinks in your song Hammerhead?"

So what if it sounds similar to something that has already been done? Like it's the only such case. If you want to hear a worse case of a ripoff, then just search Green Day ripped off Dillinger Four in youtube (now, if those two songs aren't similar then i'll be damned). This is an old case and i hate to bring it back, but it's obvious (but still, Dillinger Four don't complain).

And bashing Josh Freese? You don't want to go there...

edit: here, the link to the GD/Dillinger Four ripoff, now you don't even have to search by yourself: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=advxtHtTkoQ

Oxygene
06-05-2009, 06:56 AM
YES, I am trashing Josh Freese.


Oh the humility!

Little_Miss_1565
06-05-2009, 07:45 AM
Oh the humility!

I love Josh Freese's work, but he's not a sacred cow. The amount of crash in a song is a matter of taste. This guy happens not to like it. Whatev.

Oxygene
06-05-2009, 07:52 AM
I love Josh Freese's work, but he's not a sacred cow.
1) actually he is
2) the guy's taste obviously is worth dick :D

Outerspaceman21
06-05-2009, 08:31 AM
I realize I should have been more specific (since there seems to be a lot of confusion as to which songs on Rise & Fall, Rage & Grace exactly are covers).

The Offspring does a fairly credible version (better than Zebrahead's attempt to butcher a good song) of O.C. Life. They did change some of the lyrics (which is no big deal) but after the first chorus, the drummer goes completely ape shit on the crash cymbal to where at times is starts to drown out the rest of the band.

Yes, I know Rikk Agnew wrote O.C. Life all by himself and D.I. use to be a good band when Rikk & Alfie Agnew were still members. As far as D.I. ruling... Rikk's current band totally blows away anything the current version of D.I. and the current version of the Adolescents have done. There is no comparasion.

PooP better then The Adolescents? Thats it, you just lost my respect. The Adolescents rock, and they still continue to rock even in their old age. End of story.

Oxygene right, your taste is worth dick.

Oxygene
06-05-2009, 08:44 AM
Oxygene right, your taste is worth dick.

You are the toughest dude on the interwebz evarrr :p

Outerspaceman21
06-05-2009, 12:19 PM
You are the toughest dude on the interwebz evarrr :p

Uber cool.

Oxygene
06-05-2009, 12:24 PM
Uber cool.

I love agreeing with peeps :)