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Reamwolf
06-18-2009, 03:37 PM
very Controversial isn't it?

Well, here goes my argument;

To me, Abortion is something that should be outlawed. the only ones who should be allowed to have an Abortion are those who are Raped.
Now, here is my point, Why have sex in the first place if you don't want a baby.... Or if you had sex just to have sex, you should have had more protection, or had protection in the first place.
And if you have an abortion, think about this, That baby could be the next great person. He could be the next Obama, the next Dexter Holland, the next (and god, lets hope not) Noodles. She could be the next Oprah, the next President. You don't know.

Now please don't Flame people on here. Just a political erm... argument.

wheelchairman
06-18-2009, 03:58 PM
Ah, an abortion topic. It's been too long since we've seen your friendly face around here!

The Living Abortion
06-18-2009, 04:00 PM
This brings back some very sad memories. :(:confused::o

jacknife737
06-18-2009, 04:03 PM
Needs salt, ect.

The Living Abortion
06-18-2009, 04:04 PM
Are you talking about me?

Static_Martyr
06-18-2009, 06:42 PM
And if you have an abortion, think about this, That baby could be the next great person. He could be the next Obama, the next Dexter Holland, the next (and god, lets hope not) Noodles. She could be the next Oprah, the next President. You don't know.

I have nothing but respect for those who are pro-life/anti-choice (depending on the slant), but I've always thought this was a terrible argument. The odds are just as good that the baby could be the next Hitler or Stalin.

Also, if you don't mind my asking, why do you make an exception for rape victims? Does the same rule not apply --- that the rape baby could be the next Oprah or President? I guess what I'm asking is, how does the fact that it was born from rape change the fact that it was conceived? What about it changes that makes you believe it's okay to abort it under circumstances of rape?

Reamwolf
06-18-2009, 07:49 PM
Also, if you don't mind my asking, why do you make an exception for rape victims? Does the same rule not apply --- that the rape baby could be the next Oprah or President? I guess what I'm asking is, how does the fact that it was born from rape change the fact that it was conceived? What about it changes that makes you believe it's okay to abort it under circumstances of rape?

Because rape is forced sex. It wasn't that person's choice to have sex. When the child is born, the mother might not embrace that child with as much love because of the violence that came with the child. Some mothers will, some wont.
And yes, I have though about how that child could become the next Hitler. It's true. I have no way of knowing, that is what I'm saying.

Plus I'm young. I haven't had my fill of the world yet. I use others opinions to create my own. And thanks for bringing up this idea. I'll think it over.

leo3375
06-18-2009, 07:52 PM
What about cases in which the mother's health would be jeopardized if she carried it to term? What about fetuses that are found to have disabilities and deformities so severe that they have little or no chance of surviving on their own? In cases such as this, the only way to save the mother's life and/or prevent any kind of suffering would be to terminate. And in every case of late-term abortion, these are the circumstances.

Don't buy the myth that the anti-choice movement perpetuates of the high-school girl who wants to fit into her prom dress or the bride-to-be who doesn't want to be pregnant at her wedding. These sorts of cases do not exist at all.

The most interesting reason I've heard for being against abortion is because it's very one-sided and doesn't factor in what the father wants to do at all. I do feel that if the father wants it to be carried to term and he's ready to make that commitment that absolutely must be considered. But in the end, he is not the one carrying it and the mother must have the final say.

Now, I am fervently pro-choice. I believe that women and girls should have safe, affordable, and easy access to the procedure without being harassed and without fear of how their parents might react. I don't think a teenager should get parental consent for an abortion and her doctor shouldn't tell her parents but she must save up for it herself. However, I feel that any abortion performed after the first trimester must be done for a medically valid reason.

Reamwolf
06-18-2009, 07:59 PM
What about cases in which the mother's health would be jeopardized if she carried it to term? What about fetuses that are found to have disabilities and deformities so severe that they have little or no chance of surviving on their own? In cases such as this, the only way to save the mother's life and/or prevent any kind of suffering would be to terminate. And in every case of late-term abortion, these are the circumstances.

Don't buy the myth that the anti-choice movement perpetuates of the high-school girl who wants to fit into her prom dress or the bride-to-be who doesn't want to be pregnant at her wedding. These sorts of cases do not exist at all.

The most interesting reason I've heard for being against abortion is because it's very one-sided and doesn't factor in what the father wants to do at all. I do feel that if the father wants it to be carried to term and he's ready to make that commitment that absolutely must be considered. But in the end, he is not the one carrying it and the mother must have the final say.

Now, I am fervently pro-choice. I believe that women and girls should have safe, affordable, and easy access to the procedure without being harassed and without fear of how their parents might react. I don't think a teenager should get parental consent for an abortion and her doctor shouldn't tell her parents but she must save up for it herself. However, I feel that any abortion performed after the first trimester must be done for a medically valid reason.

Your reasons are very good. I can see where you're coming from. Hum.... Well, abortion isn't a black and white thing, its a gray area for me.

Your point is good. I'll think about what you said. Maybe even adjust my opinion.

IamSam
06-18-2009, 08:42 PM
http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/images/dead-end-sign.jpg

Reamwolf
06-18-2009, 08:51 PM
D:
Its a dead end.... Sign....

Static_Martyr
06-19-2009, 03:00 AM
Because rape is forced sex. It wasn't that person's choice to have sex. When the child is born, the mother might not embrace that child with as much love because of the violence that came with the child. Some mothers will, some wont.

Are you condemning abortion on the basis that the baby is a human being and therefore its life should be protected? If so, then I still don't see what about rape changes the fact that the baby is killed.

Alison
06-19-2009, 06:18 AM
I'm pro choice
But only on the basis that a child would be aborted before it could feel any pain.
Like obviously, if a woman has been going around having unsafe sex, then yeah, she should take responsibility. But at the same time, if a woman is so careless to be doing that, should she be left with the responsibility of a child? Should she have to have a child as a punishment for what she did wrong? That's a completely wrong reason to have a child!
And...what if someone has used contraception, been very careful, yet ended up pregnant? Are you saying, nobody should have sex unless they want a child? That's not gonna happen!
If the child would be born into poverty, has barely any prospects in life...is it fair?
What if the child grows up to find out his/her mother wanted to abort them? that would suck. A child should be born out of love, not because its mother couldnt find somewhere to abort it!

MAXTER
06-19-2009, 06:35 AM
I'm pro choice
But only on the basis that a child would be aborted before it could feel any pain.
Like obviously, if a woman has been going around having unsafe sex, then yeah, she should take responsibility. But at the same time, if a woman is so careless to be doing that, should she be left with the responsibility of a child? Should she have to have a child as a punishment for what she did wrong? That's a completely wrong reason to have a child!
And...what if someone has used contraception, been very careful, yet ended up pregnant? Are you saying, nobody should have sex unless they want a child? That's not gonna happen!
If the child would be born into poverty, has barely any prospects in life...is it fair?
What if the child grows up to find out his/her mother wanted to abort them? that would suck. A child should be born out of love, not because its mother couldnt find somewhere to abort it!

I'm Totally Agree with you!!! ;)

ShutUpYouFuckingMime
06-19-2009, 07:35 AM
The problem with the "she should have used protection" argument is that many people who want to outlaw abortion don't want to stop there. They want to defund family planning, make birth control and other forms of contraception more difficult or impossible to access, (some people have the misconception that the morning after pill is the "abortion pill" which is bullshit) and replace comprehensive sex ed with abstinence-only education, which has been proven time and again to be ineffective. The thing is, if all these things were to happen, unintended pregnancy rates would go up, and as such rates of abortion (regardless of legality, making it illegal doesn't make it go away) would go up. Countries that limit access to sex ed and birth control, and have laws banning abortion have higher abortion rates, higher women and infant mortality rates.

Harleyquiiinn
06-19-2009, 08:12 AM
The problem with the "she should have used protection" argument is that many people who want to outlaw abortion don't want to stop there. They want to defund family planning, make birth control and other forms of contraception more difficult or impossible to access, (some people have the misconception that the morning after pill is the "abortion pill" which is bullshit) and replace comprehensive sex ed with abstinence-only education, which has been proven time and again to be ineffective. The thing is, if all these things were to happen, unintended pregnancy rates would go up, and as such rates of abortion (regardless of legality, making it illegal doesn't make it go away) would go up. Countries that limit access to sex ed and birth control, and have laws banning abortion have higher abortion rates, higher women and infant mortality rates.

http://www.assas.net/forum/style_emoticons/default/jap.gif

Also I really like your name.

Nobody is IN FAVOR of abortion, anyway. Nobody wants to kill fetuses. It just happens that sometimes, it is necessary and women should have the ability to make a choice.
besides, it's not like the girls/women having an abortion want to or are irresponsible. Sometimes it's an accident, sometime they don't know enough about contraception, sometime it's a matter of health.

It is sad, indeed, that the father has nothing to say in that choice but it is a matter of balance of right. I think that the right for a woman to abort if she needs to is more important than the right to have a child.

Reamwolf
06-19-2009, 09:06 AM
Also I really like your name.

Nobody is IN FAVOR of abortion, anyway. Nobody wants to kill fetuses. It just happens that sometimes, it is necessary and women should have the ability to make a choice.
besides, it's not like the girls/women having an abortion want to or are irresponsible. Sometimes it's an accident, sometime they don't know enough about contraception, sometime it's a matter of health.

It is sad, indeed, that the father has nothing to say in that choice but it is a matter of balance of right. I think that the right for a woman to abort if she needs to is more important than the right to have a child.

I suppose Your right, no one is in favor of abortion... But I suppose I should say, "I would prefer if someone did not have an abortion".

Jesus
06-19-2009, 10:15 AM
Ah, an abortion topic. It's been too long since we've seen your friendly face around here!

Hehe. The sad part is that there is still a debate about it. On par with Italy.


Are you condemning abortion on the basis that the baby is a human being and therefore its life should be protected? If so, then I still don't see what about rape changes the fact that the baby is killed.

Nah if you read the arguments it boils down to: if you had sex willingly you should just bear the consequences. The regard for the baby or the quality of life of the child usually never enters their thoughts. Love and care for the baby will magically happen after it's been born.

Reamwolf
06-19-2009, 12:30 PM
After hearing your arguments, I realize that, more or less, Abortion is not a Black or white topic. It has a gray area.

Thanks everyone! I really love to hear everyone's opinions. I listen to others opinions and then decide where I stand.

T-6005
06-19-2009, 01:12 PM
Hehe. The sad part is that there is still a debate about it.

These are my sentiments exactly.

Oxygene
06-19-2009, 02:33 PM
You should really read George Carlin's bit "Not every ejaculation deserves a name".

Fetuses aren't humans, they aren't counted by the census, there is no funeral if there is a miscarriage.. lot's of funny remarks that are very true.

It's not pro-life, it's anti woman.

I'm sorry there has to be some sort of medical consensus that at what point is a fetus a human being, which needs to be made by doctors much much smarter than us, but that point well.. it is definitely not at conception.

Just like there is a generally accepted consensus that someone is an adult at 18.

I believe women have the right to abortion.. I also believe women shouldn't be allowed to abort time and time again. If someone gets a third abortion, they need to remove her uterus with the abortion.

I dunno something like that.

Plus I love to go to abortion rallies to meet women... 'cause you know they're fuckin ;)

AllIn All It's Not So Bad
06-19-2009, 04:50 PM
why did you have to mention rape??
trust me, you don't want somebody making witty remarks about it

Reamwolf
06-19-2009, 04:52 PM
O_o
Good question....
I'm not sure...

AllIn All It's Not So Bad
06-19-2009, 04:59 PM
this is why you don't mention rape around the boards
and don't bitch or complain about anything either
This (http://www.offspring.com/forums/showthread.php?t=38038) --Turns Into--This (http://www.offspring.com/forums/showthread.php?t=38087)

Reamwolf
06-19-2009, 05:02 PM
this is why you don't mention rape around the boards
and don't bitch or complain about anything either
This (http://www.offspring.com/forums/showthread.php?t=38038) --Turns Into--This (http://www.offspring.com/forums/showthread.php?t=38087)

Thanks for the warning!

dexter12296566
07-01-2009, 05:21 PM
Abortions should be illegal. Use EC pills or put the baby up for adoption. after starting to form it is a living creature and getting an abortion is murder

Oxygene
07-02-2009, 02:02 AM
Abortions should be illegal. Use EC pills or put the baby up for adoption. after starting to form it is a living creature and getting an abortion is murder

that's mindless..

rise_and_fall
07-02-2009, 03:58 AM
Just like there is a generally accepted consensus that someone is an adult at 18.



No worries, but someone under the age of 18 is still human right? What about under the age of 9 months? are they still human?

I don't think its right to stop something that will grow into a human being like yourself from becoming its potential.

nieh
07-02-2009, 07:50 AM
Sperm are living creatures as well, but I'm willing to bet that doesn't prevent you from committing a genocide every time you jerk off.

dexter12296566
07-02-2009, 07:55 AM
hey oxygene how is that mindless

T-6005
07-02-2009, 12:01 PM
Please take (http://www.offspring.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-1769.html) my baby. (http://www.offspring.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17697)

On another note, I found that thread by googling "abortion hornypope air holes." Classy.

Oxygene
07-03-2009, 04:08 AM
No worries, but someone under the age of 18 is still human right? What about under the age of 9 months? are they still human?

I don't think its right to stop something that will grow into a human being like yourself from becoming its potential.

cancer cells are part of us and we kill them with out an issue.. also it's more complicated then that.. there is a point or an array somewhere where a pile of cells become human.. like they said before sperm is alive as well so what?

Static_Martyr
07-03-2009, 11:46 AM
Problems that I see with the "potential" argument (that we should protect fetuses and cells under the law because they have the potential to grow into humans);

-) It falsely equivocates the fetus or cell with a sentient human being (yes, a fetus/zygote has human DNA, and yes, they are a stage of human development, but so are sperm and egg cells, and so are the components of those cells before they are assembled within the body); if we operate on this logic, then we also have to equivocate anything that could *potentially* result in human life with a sentient human being --- if you have sex but use protection, or get a vasectomy or other procedure to prevent pregnancy, then that would be a crime as well because your act has the "potential" to create human life, and you are "wasting" that potential by blowing that wad into a place where its potential to create life is impossible to fulfill. In fact, *any* ejaculation then becomes equivalent to a small holocaust, because there are millions of sperm cells in each ejaculation, each of which have the potential to become human beings one day. Basically, the regress of human development is near-infinite, going far beyond just the zygote; we can track the zygote to its component sperm and egg cells, then trace those cells back to their unique parts, trace those parts back to the proteins and systems that formed them, and so on and so forth. The only way to justify saying that a cell is magically "human" at the point of conception is to assume that there is some part of the cell that only comes to exist (and did not exist in any component or form beforehand) after the conception. And yet we can account for all of the components of the cell by following the regress of development. So what about these cells changes once they are "conceived" into a zygote cell? They change formation, is all. What about them is different, though? They haven't even begun to develop towards being a sentient being; that's a process that takes at least several weeks, even on the tightest interpretation of the stages of fetal development.

-) If it's wrong to eliminate a fetus or zygote because it may one day become a sentient human being, then it's also wrong to eliminate even a single sperm or egg cell. Sure, they haven't officially formed into the sprout of a human being yet, but they have the potential to do just that if the human body is allowed to run its natural course (i.e. intercourse). I see no reason to arbitrarily classify two separate sperm/egg cells as "not human" and therefore worthless, then suddenly classify it as "fully human" and therefore protected by law when they become one mere seconds later.

-) If we equivocate based on potential, then that opens the door to the argument that *any* activity that does not produce life is a "waste" of opportunity to produce life, and therefore a crime --- which in turn opens the door to other faulty arguments, such as discrimination against gays. For example....people argue that gays shouldn't be having sex because sex is meant for reproduction, and gays aren't capable of reproducing. If that's the case, then they are being restricted from marriage because their actions do not lead to pregnancy; if they did some other act besides sex, then it would be okay, but because they have sex without the ability to reproduce, suddenly it's a "waste of time and potential" for them to do it because they could've been out having straight sex and making children....while straight couples who are not capable of having children due to medical mishaps or natural issues are not discriminated against in the same way.

-) An example of why equivocating a cell with a sentient being based solely on potential is contradictory.....think of it like this. Let's say tomorrow, the USA passes a law saying that all first-year medical students (that have not yet graduated college) that have a passing grade right now will be awarded a medical diploma and license, and not required to finish out the remainder of their schooling. They're the same thing as certified doctors; they have the *potential* to become doctors one day, and they are well on their way --- I mean, they have passing grades, so they'll probably be doctors anyway --- so let's just go ahead and treat them like doctors, right? I can only assume that we'd all find that a fallacious way to run our society, and so I don't see how this case is any different.

DMelges
07-05-2009, 09:04 PM
If the woman gives birth to the unwanted baby, two lives are ruined. Her's and the babies, because she is not ready for the baby and the baby needs her to be ready.
If the woman doesn't give birth to the unwanted baby, she only ruined one life (if you can even call it an actual life because in the beginning of the pregnancy the baby is only a seed, not an actual tree).

So what's worse ?

We should let the world do whatever the hell they want to. Countless people have been born to unfit parents and they ended up in the street or poor minded.
Cause and consequence. You can't have one without the other.

IamSam
07-06-2009, 06:36 AM
Sperm are living creatures as well, but I'm willing to bet that doesn't prevent you from committing a genocide every time you jerk off.

However, if there was to be a trial for someone committing genocide by jerking off the proceedings would be absolutely hilarious.

jacknife737
07-06-2009, 02:46 PM
However, if there was to be a trial for someone committing genocide by jerking off the proceedings would be absolutely hilarious.

God, I lol'd at that image.

Al Coholic
07-06-2009, 03:14 PM
Should coathanger terminations really be called abortions? I mean, it's not like the coathanger was plan A. Its atleast a B-bortion by that point.

chicapowerpunk
07-10-2009, 06:55 PM
Abortion itīs better to avoid this, do you think????...:cool:

wheelchairman
07-11-2009, 07:38 AM
Someday I plan on running an economy powered solely by abortions.

JohnnyNemesis
07-11-2009, 09:43 AM
Plus I'm young. I haven't had my fill of the world yet. I use others opinions to create my own.

This sums up so many pro-life arguments I've heard <3

Llamas
07-11-2009, 10:50 AM
This sums up so many pro-life arguments I've heard <3

Really? Most serious pro-lifers seem to be old people stuck in tradition and religion... most young uninformed people tend to go with what's popular among people their age - in this case, pro-choice.

Al Coholic
07-11-2009, 01:30 PM
No... You see a lot of young people at pro-life rallys. I'd say it's a pretty close minority, a few points from an even split. A lot of churchgoing kids get steered that direction.

AllIn All It's Not So Bad
07-14-2009, 11:36 AM
She was a girl from Birmingham, She just had an abor-oh wait...

IamSam
07-14-2009, 11:40 AM
Anyone else watch It's Always Sunny In Philadelphia? I think it rings true here.

coke_a_holic
07-14-2009, 11:40 AM
She was a girl from Birmingham, She just had an abor-oh wait...

Topic: Abortion
Last post by: AllIn All It's Not So Bad

This.

Edit: Birch, YES.

rise_and_fall
07-20-2009, 10:59 PM
(if you can even call it an actual life because in the beginning of the pregnancy the baby is only a seed, not an actual tree).


Are you one of these fabled tree-men?

rise_and_fall
07-20-2009, 11:03 PM
We should let the world do whatever the hell they want to. Countless people have been born to unfit parents and they ended up in the street or poor minded.
Cause and consequence. You can't have one without the other.

are you a parent yourself? What makes someone a fit parent? Are parents from the Sudan unfit because they cannot send there kids to school?

IamSam
07-20-2009, 11:35 PM
I don't know about you but I go to abortion rallies to pick up chicks. I find that the pro-lifers are oddly more quick to put out.

rise_and_fall
07-20-2009, 11:42 PM
Have you conducted a proper research project and recorded the results? Because IamSam is not what I call a reliable source

JohnnyNemesis
07-20-2009, 11:44 PM
Salt, coat hangers, etc.

IamSam
07-20-2009, 11:50 PM
Have you banged a pro-lifer? Those chicks are so turned on after those rallies.


Salt, coat hangers, etc.

Punch to the womb, kick down the stairs, etc.

rise_and_fall
07-21-2009, 12:11 AM
http://i437.photobucket.com/albums/qq96/rise_and_fall_rage_and_grace/3200_104487522192_635047192_2449039.jpg
Sure you didn't attend this type of rally?

IamSam
07-21-2009, 06:10 AM
Nope. It was outside Planned Parenthood and had fences to keep both sides separate. My friend went to try to find a chick on the pro-choice side. Failed miserably. He tried to cross over to the pro-life side by climbing fences and ended up getting hit by a crossfire of eggs from both sides.

jacknife737
07-21-2009, 02:58 PM
Nope. It was outside Planned Parenthood and had fences to keep both sides separate. My friend went to try to find a chick on the pro-choice side. Failed miserably. He tried to cross over to the pro-life side by climbing fences and ended up getting hit by a crossfire of eggs from both sides.

That is hilarious.

0r4ng3
07-22-2009, 10:11 AM
Wait, didn't that happen on It's Always Sunny In Philadelphia?

Edit: Oh, you kind of already said that. Duh.

IamSam
07-22-2009, 11:05 AM
That is hilarious.

Thank you sir, I can't take credit for it because:


Wait, didn't that happen on It's Always Sunny In Philadelphia?

Edit: Oh, you kind of already said that. Duh.

This.

I was seeing how long I could go until someone blew the whistle! Rise_and_fall didn't seem to know what to make of it.

[[Meli.x]]
07-26-2009, 07:22 PM
i believe abortion is a necassary evil.

I would explain, but im lazy and tired, so ill save that for another day.

SMASHedTHEignition
08-02-2009, 03:43 AM
http://i437.photobucket.com/albums/qq96/rise_and_fall_rage_and_grace/3200_104487522192_635047192_2449039.jpg
Sure you didn't attend this type of rally?

fuckin hilarious picture

Xtrem_Juggernaut
08-13-2009, 12:14 PM
Abortion should be compulsory for some people. I can pay.