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Llamas
08-17-2009, 04:38 PM
I'm pissed. Why are those who were so strongly standing behind the public option and this health care reform suddenly bending over and taking it from the right? Suddenly more than half of America doesn't support Obama's plan and it's not gonna happen... why must we be so weak?

Stupids.

RageAndLov
08-17-2009, 05:37 PM
Maybe because many Americans are afraid of becoming a state of socialism even though you are far far away from that.

dexter12296566
08-17-2009, 06:43 PM
Even though America has not seen the full extent of George Bush's decisions we know some things were not done the way they should have been(though I base no opinion because I am not even old enough to be involved in politics), but I believe Americans are afraid to go through another tragedy like 9/11 again. It is very obvious that other countries became more of a threat once George Bush was in office. That may just be because they finished the conspiracy and execution perfectly that time or maybe they disliked George Bush and his ideas because he found them nore of a threat to their society. People may think that the health care plan will not effect other societies but it makes there citizens want to come here. That was the reason they even began to dislike Americans in the first place.Those reasons do not give Iraq and Afghanistan just cause or even justify why they did the things they did, though. You, me and the other people on the forum can not effect America's decision as a United Nation. I think with Obama we have a stronger government than if McCain or Clinton had won but I can't be positive. I don't even know the full extent of George Bush's decisions yet, no one does. We just need to wait it out and see where Obama takes America(politicallly speaking, of course).

Superdope
08-18-2009, 06:25 AM
Everyone knows if the health care reform came to fruition, the very next day they would wake up with red flags flying in their flagpoles.

I'm as puzzled at you to be honest, but people have always loved the status quo. Yes, the band too.

Al Coholic
08-18-2009, 07:35 AM
Even though America has not seen the full extent of George Bush's decisions we know some things were not done the way they should have been(though I base no opinion because I am not even old enough to be involved in politics), but I believe Americans are afraid to go through another tragedy like 9/11 again. It is very obvious that other countries became more of a threat once George Bush was in office. That may just be because they finished the conspiracy and execution perfectly that time or maybe they disliked George Bush and his ideas because he found them nore of a threat to their society. People may think that the health care plan will not effect other societies but it makes there citizens want to come here. That was the reason they even began to dislike Americans in the first place.Those reasons do not give Iraq and Afghanistan just cause or even justify why they did the things they did, though. You, me and the other people on the forum can not effect America's decision as a United Nation. I think with Obama we have a stronger government than if McCain or Clinton had won but I can't be positive. I don't even know the full extent of George Bush's decisions yet, no one does. We just need to wait it out and see where Obama takes America(politicallly speaking, of course).

What the fuck are you talking about?

Little_Miss_1565
08-18-2009, 07:39 AM
It's infuriating. I wish the whole death panels thing was true so I could nominate all those people.

dexter12296566
08-18-2009, 09:37 AM
What the fuck are you talking about?

People are afraid to go along with anything after the so far the outcome of George Bush's decision. At least the people I know just don't want 9/11 to happen again or make decisions that will make other countries angry. Just to prevent further attacks, I don't know. Do you even live in America?

Rag Doll
08-18-2009, 10:36 AM
People are afraid to go along with anything after the so far the outcome of George Bush's decision. At least the people I know just don't want 9/11 to happen again or make decisions that will make other countries angry. Just to prevent further attacks, I don't know. Do you even live in America?

What on EARTH does that have to do with dropping the public option for health care?

batfish
08-18-2009, 11:02 AM
What is happening in the US with that at the moment?
Over here all the news about it is twisted to the perspective of what Americans think of our health system - the NHS. I haven't actually heard much about what Obama actually plans, just that the Americans don't seem to like it, or the NHS.

Does he want an NHS-style public health system?

Or a European-style health system - for example in France I think the government pays poorer peoples' health insuance for them (but i'm not 100% sure of that).


What problem do people have with a public health system? They can still buy private health insurance - about 10% of Brits do. I guess it raises taxes, but I heard that if the US style health system is not reformed, in 50 years' time it will end up bankrupting the country.

Jesus
08-18-2009, 01:06 PM
It has delivered some hilarious things though like "don't let the government get involved with my medicare/social security!" or the Stephen Hawking's thing which was beyond stupid. But still the amount of stupid people is quite a big threat for democracy.

This said the public option isn't per se necessary to have good health care (see netherlands or swiss), although you need to regulated the private sector then. Which aint gonna happen with the money involved in the US, so a public option competing is prolly the best option.

The Obama administration is being their pussy self once again, like they also were with the stimulus earlier. Try to give some stuff up so you can claim the end thing is something bipartisan, but when it's time to vote the republicans don't vote for it anyway. So you gave up stuff for nothing. Just be like the Bush administration, you got elected, so push through your plan. Fuck the opposition. Don't believe the false media stories that the republicans got voted out because of their partisanship, it was their crappy policies that screwed them over in the end.

Al Coholic
08-19-2009, 02:07 PM
People are afraid to go along with anything after the so far the outcome of George Bush's decision. At least the people I know just don't want 9/11 to happen again or make decisions that will make other countries angry. Just to prevent further attacks, I don't know. Do you even live in America?

Yeah, I do. But your grammer makes me wonder if you do. I'm pretty sure nobody wants another terrorist attack, but what does that have to do with domestic health care. I doubt there's a single terrorist out there thinking, "God dammit, if they vote to have a public option, that's the last straw, I'm blowing myself up Monday." What you're saying is that the people you know are so scared of terrorism that they're too scared to support anything, including completly unrelated matters? The fuck? And how does being pussyfootedly scared make someone a lesser target of terrorists? Shit yo, that's what them foolz want. To terrorize that ass.

Apathy
08-22-2009, 03:40 AM
I think that's just all he knows (or thinks he knows anyway) about politics and assumed that it could be applied to any conversation regarding politics, government, or america in a way that yields the result of him looking trupunx4life.

The whole thing is very Leftover Crack.

But anyway the whole public option thing is killing me because Obama is recently looking very lax on whether or not it's necessary. Saying that the public option is "not Healthcare Reform in its entirety". Well shit thats not the way to do things it makes it look like he's too afraid to support it when every cheeky fucker and their hillbilly grandfather show up to "Town Meetings" ready to argue their bullshit opinion because for some reason Rush Limbaugh has convinced the far right wing that they have become a grassroots organization and they need to go to the state level to get their America back from the blacks and communists.

Meanwhile some Karl Rove esque word twister is attempting to convince these people that the new bill is going to attempt to pull the plug on their comatose sister (which they would probably be able to afford to keep on life support had we already had a federal health insurance programLOL) because the doctor wants his quality rating to go up in having his patients carry out their living wills, when in fact the bill currently only allows the doctor an improved quality rating through life-SUSTAINING procedures which shouldn't matter anyway because if someone puts in their will to do not resuscitate the doctor legally has to follow it whether it makes them more money or not.

AllIn All It's Not So Bad
08-22-2009, 02:23 PM
But still the amount of stupid people is quite a big threat for democracy.

It's an Idiocracy!

dexter12296566
08-22-2009, 06:17 PM
I don't get why things start up and end almost instantly.

Streef
08-23-2009, 12:25 AM
As I've been watching these "issues" with the healthcare reform unfold I've frequently found myself wondering what those in other countries must think of us right now. I was sincerely hoping that at least some of the blatent ignorance that runs rampant in this country might have been sort of... overshadowed by Obama's election and plans for reform, but alas, I see that it just can't be kept down by anything. I am SO embarrassed by the way people are behaving. In my mind, I think that at least 80% of the population shouldn't even be allowed to voice an opinion on how healthcare should be managed when they don't even know how to feed themselves properly or get some damn exercise.

Harleyquiiinn
08-23-2009, 08:33 AM
As I've been watching these "issues" with the healthcare reform unfold I've frequently found myself wondering what those in other countries must think of us right now. I was sincerely hoping that at least some of the blatent ignorance that runs rampant in this country might have been sort of... overshadowed by Obama's election and plans for reform, but alas, I see that it just can't be kept down by anything. I am SO embarrassed by the way people are behaving. In my mind, I think that at least 80% of the population shouldn't even be allowed to voice an opinion on how healthcare should be managed when they don't even know how to feed themselves properly or get some damn exercise.

Hey, don't worry about that. I have these vision of America: "country where you can find some of the smartest and dumbest people on earth at the same time". Unfortunately, we see some of the dumbest on that question.
I read an article on this issue in one of our newspaper here. It was about a joke website comparing politics to hitler and the webmaster wrote something like "Guess what other country had a health care plan ? hitler's germany" it was a joke but some people took it seriously and are now comparing Obama to hitler... kinda funny :D
Also, I have a hard time understanding the issue about healthcare in the US. In France, Social security is so very important and it's been here for such a long time that I don't even understand how it can be done differently. I remember Sicko...I know it's Michael Moore so I'm careful about his objectivity but still, after that movie, I realized how lucky I was to live in a country where I don't have to worry about how I am going to pay if I get sick...

Batfish> We have what is called Social Security. Everybody pays something, every month to the social security that belongs to the State. If you get sick (and that works for EVERYONE), you go to the doctor, give your special green card, and you pay. After a week or so, the social security gives you back part of the money you pay. for example, if you go to a regular doctor, you pay your consult 20 € and you get 12 back. When you are really poor, you get everything back.
Also for hospitals, it works the same way and if you go to a public hospital you have pratically nothing to pay.
After that, if you are rich, you can choose to go to a more expensive doctor or to a private hospital and it will be more expensive for you but it is your choice...

wheelchairman
08-23-2009, 03:53 PM
I am willing to say for a fact that Americans are no dumber than Frenchmen. There's no disparity, America isn't a nation of geniuses and morons, I would put it on par.

Apathy
08-24-2009, 02:17 AM
I would put it on per

saugusliberty
08-24-2009, 07:53 AM
I am very much opposed to a so-called public option. Especially if there is the slightest chance that it will lead to the demise of private options. Government should be the referee and not one of the participants in the game with the ability to change the rules in governments' favor. I vote in every election, but haven't voted for a Dem or Repub for over 20 years. Listening to Offspring all these years I guess I am surprised to read pro-government responses.

Little_Miss_1565
08-24-2009, 08:24 AM
I'm surprised that people are responding to the idea of the public option as though this is the first country to consider such a thing. Did Britain collapse in on itself after it did the same? How about Sweden and Norway? We are pretty much the last first world country to not have some sort of public healthcare option. And the key word in "option" is that it's not mandatory.

Also, WTF at the idea of the Offspring being against the idea of government on principle alone? Teenage riot much?

saugusliberty
08-24-2009, 10:17 AM
Little Miss 1565 are you responding to me? If so, I fail to see in your response anything that has to do with what I wrote.

Superdope
08-24-2009, 12:01 PM
It has everything to do with what you wrote. Read it again.

Little_Miss_1565
08-24-2009, 01:53 PM
I fail to see in your response anything that has to do with what I wrote.

Why am I not surprised?

Oxygene
08-24-2009, 03:02 PM
I am very much opposed to a so-called public option. Especially if there is the slightest chance that it will lead to the demise of private options. Government should be the referee and not one of the participants in the game with the ability to change the rules in governments' favor. I vote in every election, but haven't voted for a Dem or Repub for over 20 years. Listening to Offspring all these years I guess I am surprised to read pro-government responses.

Draw me a picture of how that would happen...

They start killing doctors who keep a private practice or what?

ShutUpYouFuckingMime
08-24-2009, 08:14 PM
Private options will be fine if we have a public option. UnitedHealth raked in a 155% profit increase in the middle of our crumbling economy. I think private insurers will be just dandy.

I really hope this health care reform goes through. We need it.

Al Coholic
08-24-2009, 08:52 PM
I just got that username. For as long as I've been lurking here I just thought it was some gay random shit. Now I get it - mimes don't talk, so telling one to shut up is like, ironic or something. There's a thing going on there, don't know why I didn't connect those dots before.


saugusliberty - atleast if you'd have cited the dead kennedys or something as your inspiration for voting independant, cool. Although they'd be all over the whole public option thing anyway. This whole bit:


am very much opposed to a so-called public option. Especially if there is the slightest chance that it will lead to the demise of private options. Government should be the referee and not one of the participants in the game with the ability to change the rules in governments' favor.

...while gramatically correct, is kinda jibberishy. You sound like you watched a tv show or listened to a radio, read a blog, whatever people do these days, and are regurgitating an uninformed opinion.

wheelchairman
08-25-2009, 06:41 AM
I don't see how people can think that free-market competition on healthcare will somehow mean better healthcare for them. That's some bizarrely retarded logic.

Knife
08-28-2009, 09:58 PM
Just because we are living in such optimistic times. :d
http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn17711-healthcare-revamp-wont-cure-america.html

FAT KILLZ!!1

Apathy
08-31-2009, 07:37 PM
I don't see how people can think that free-market competition on healthcare will somehow mean better healthcare for them. That's some bizarrely retarded logic.

Capitalism tells them this, but they're fucking dumb because they omit the fact that a public option would only force better quality from the private insurers trying to COMPETE, which is the entire point of capitalism.

Red-state idiots can call socialism as much as they want but the only reason the socialism would be enacted at all is to further capitalistic principles in the first place.

NGNM85
09-08-2009, 08:30 PM
I'm so pissed, it looks like we're getting royally screwed. Any reform that doesn't AT LEAST include a public option, (Remember, the public option is, in itself, a compromise, the ideal is single-payer.) is NOT reform, it will change nothing. I can't fucking believe this crap, I could've at least understood under the Bush administration, when the republicans had the majority, but this is totally fucked. You really have to be an expert at failure. The democrats have the house, then senate, AND the white house....and they still can't make it work. The worst part is THEY are the impediment here, they have a filibuster-proof majority. I think this is just a magnificant illustration of two basic home truths: 1.Corporate lobbying has so deeply infested our system that the public is essentially out of the equation. 2. That our democracy is deeply, horribly broken.

Upgrayedd
09-27-2009, 04:33 PM
The problem is the 50 or so "blue dog" democrats. These bastards have long ago sold out to the health insurance industry and won't vote for a public option. Also, Max Baucus. This asshat, who chairs the senate finance committee, has taken over a million dollars in contributions from the insurance companies. No wonder the senate finance bill was basically a giveaway to the insurance industry while doing nothing at all to fix healthcare. Thank god some of the democrats have finally found their balls and are refusing to vote for a bill that doesn't include a public option. I really hope the senate dems include a public option and use the budget reconciliation thing to block a republican filibuster.