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View Full Version : UN has chosen which country is the best to live in.



RageAndLov
10-05-2009, 01:53 PM
Guess who. (http://hdr.undp.org/en/statistics/)

Harleyquiiinn
10-05-2009, 01:57 PM
Guess who. (http://hdr.undp.org/en/statistics/)

lol Congrats !

Now, tell me honestly, how hard is it to learn norwegian ? :D

And I'm trying to find out how this ranking is made...

RageAndLov
10-05-2009, 02:00 PM
lol Congrats !

Now, tell me honestly, how hard is it to learn norwegian ? :D

And I'm trying to find out how this ranking is made...

It's so easy to learn. I was only a few years old when I could speak it!

Llamas
10-05-2009, 02:12 PM
Yeah it'd be really nice if they explained what they evaluated to determine this. All Scandinavian countries are generally very high in these things, though. And I love Sweden, so I can't argue :)

wheelchairman
10-05-2009, 02:29 PM
I think it's extremely likely given the title of the article that what they used to measure this was the Human Development Index (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_Development_Index), the wiki article gives a better criticism for it than I could but I think overall its not a bad statistic.

On reading the section on criticism I find it lacking the most obvious criticism. Simplifying the living conditions in a country to a set of numbers on which to compare is always going to bring up discrepancies and inaccuracies. Would it really be preferable to live in Israel over Andorra? While both are nations that participate in the Eurovision Song Contest, one has been part of a conflict for 50 years whereas the other hasn't...

Is Norway really the best country to live in? I wouldn't want to live in a country where beer in the supermarket costs 1.8 Euros (this is in a supermarket, mind you), or a bottle of vodka costs 30 Euros. That's crazy!

Also lol at Zimbabwe not being on the list.

Llamas
10-05-2009, 02:43 PM
I think it's extremely likely given the title of the article that what they used to measure this was the Human Development Index (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_Development_Index), the wiki article gives a better criticism for it than I could but I think overall its not a bad statistic.

On reading the section on criticism I find it lacking the most obvious criticism. Simplifying the living conditions in a country to a set of numbers on which to compare is always going to bring up discrepancies and inaccuracies. Would it really be preferable to live in Israel over Andorra? While both are nations that participate in the Eurovision Song Contest, one has been part of a conflict for 50 years whereas the other hasn't...

Is Norway really the best country to live in? I wouldn't want to live in a country where beer in the supermarket costs 1.8 Euros (this is in a supermarket, mind you), or a bottle of vodka costs 30 Euros. That's crazy!

Also lol at Zimbabwe not being on the list.

I generally agree with your point. I figured it was too obvious to point out these flaws... Eurovision? That's a reason for me NOT to want to live somewhere :P And I'm definitely a huge fan of how cheap beer is where I live, though that's sort of a minor thing. I'd also wanna factor in things like government, how friendly people are (sociology I guess), and transportation; and of course, it all comes down to personal preference. Someone who doesn't drink wouldn't care how much beer costs... someone who loves driving wouldn't care how large and spread out a country is compared to others.

Also, how are they able to quantify an entire COUNTRY? I mean, maybe living in Oslo or Stockholm or Reykjavík is fabulous... but living in northern Norway? How do they factor that in? I doubt it's especially great to live there.

Harleyquiiinn
10-05-2009, 02:49 PM
I generally agree with your point. I figured it was too obvious to point out these flaws... Eurovision? That's a reason for me NOT to want to live somewhere :P And I'm definitely a huge fan of how cheap beer is where I live, though that's sort of a minor thing. I'd also wanna factor in things like government, how friendly people are (sociology I guess), and transportation; and of course, it all comes down to personal preference. Someone who doesn't drink wouldn't care how much beer costs... someone who loves driving wouldn't care how large and spread out a country is compared to others.

Also, how are they able to quantify an entire COUNTRY? I mean, maybe living in Oslo or Stockholm or Reykjavík is fabulous... but living in northern Norway? How do they factor that in? I doubt it's especially great to live there.

We should do our own ranking depending on the price of beer AND the beers you can get.

RageAndLov
10-05-2009, 02:50 PM
Also, how are they able to quantify an entire COUNTRY? I mean, maybe living in Oslo or Stockholm or Reykjavík is fabulous... but living in northern Norway? How do they factor that in? I doubt it's especially great to live there.

I live in Northern Norway and let me tell you, it's even better up here.

rise_and_fall
10-05-2009, 03:39 PM
YEAH! Number two!

Gustavo
10-05-2009, 04:05 PM
75th place. Aww, so proud! <3

Cubic
10-05-2009, 04:11 PM
Norway has been #1 for as long as I can remember. At least it has when I have bothered to look. It always gets spoken highly of from a friend of mine who lives there. I want out of England. I’m almost certain Canada is to be my country of choice.

wheelchairman
10-05-2009, 05:00 PM
Llamas, the beer and vodka thing was just a Scandinavian joke. Norway's prices are famous here. Things to speak of.

One more problem from reading the article is that one of the three statistics used to measure HDI is GDP per capita, (for those not in the know, that's how much a person "produces" or how much money a person produces in a country). It assumes then that higher productivity means access to higher economic benefits (healthcare, for example). And while this is obviously true in some countries, there are such varying types of healthcare regimes in the Western world alone, that making that assumption almost seems lazy.

And healthcare was just one example.

As for living conditions, I believe its trying to quantify the average, but still it seems very difficult to compare on anything more detailed than general terms the quality of life in a nation compared to another. As mentioned, Israel as opposed to Andorra (I only chose Andorra because its right next to Israel, I don't actually know anything about Andorra other than that its tiny and in Europe).

BUT as I said before, it's probably not all wrong. As a Norwegian citizen your life is probably better than that of an Estonian citizen. But the more I think about it, the more this statistic seems...inaccurate (like any statistic I guess).

RageAndLov
10-05-2009, 05:36 PM
Norway found lots of oil in the '60s which gave us way too much money, and since Norway has very few habitants (4.7 mil), all that fortune could be given to a small amount of people, making us richer per habitant than other countries.
So now we ended up as a 1337 country which doesn't want to share its fortune with the EU, making the few lucky people living here to be rich and happy.

wheelchairman
10-05-2009, 06:14 PM
Oh..Norway found some oil? Is that the story you guys are told? :p In Denmark the story is far more interesting.

http://da.wikipedia.org/wiki/Per_H%C3%A6kkerup

Han fik skyld for at have drukket sig så fuld ved et møde med den norske minister Jens Evensen, at Norge uretmæssigt fik overladt det oljerige Ekofisk-felt.
(English: He was blamed for getting drunk at a meeding with the Norwegian Foreign Minister Jens Evensen, and that he 'unrightfully' gave the Norwegians the oil-rich Ekofisk-field.)

Don't read the second sentence after that, it totally ruins the story.

Al Coholic
10-05-2009, 07:36 PM
The greater the gender disparity in basic human development, the lower is a country's GDI relative to its HDI.

United States's GDI value, 0.942 should be compared to its HDI value of 0.956. Its GDI value is 98.5% of its HDI value. Out of the 155 countries with both HDI and GDI values, 104 countries have a better ratio than United States's


Mongolia ranked first. Sounds accurate.

Jesus
10-06-2009, 09:01 AM
One more problem from reading the article is that one of the three statistics used to measure HDI is GDP per capita, (for those not in the know, that's how much a person "produces" or how much money a person produces in a country).
Actually (nitpicking here) that's not GDP/capita but GDP/worker. ;)


BUT as I said before, it's probably not all wrong. As a Norwegian citizen your life is probably better than that of an Estonian citizen. But the more I think about it, the more this statistic seems...inaccurate (like any statistic I guess).
Sure it isn't perfect, just like generalization aren't completely correct, but that obviously doesn't mean it isn't useful or for a large part correct.

The biggest problem in my opinion is people focusing on the ranking instead of on the index behind the ranking. The difference in index between like the first 25 countries is very small, compared to the differences when you go way down the list. So differences at the top are very marginal, so the ranking there isn't that helpful.

If anyone is interested (probably not), the goal of the 'Commission on the Measurement of Economic Performance and Social Progress' (set up by Sarkozy), was pretty much to find alternative indicators besides GDP. Amartya Sen whose work pretty much inspired the HDI was part of it. It's report can be found here: http://www.stiglitz-sen-fitoussi.fr/documents/rapport_anglais.pdf (300 pages)

Mongolia ranked first. Sounds accurate.
Why wouldn't it be accurate? Or is my sarcasm detector not working correctly. :(

Vera
10-06-2009, 10:29 AM
Amartya Sen? Methinks I have a book by him.

*looks* Yeah. I do. Good book, too. (The Argumentative Indian in case anybody cares to know.)

The ranking's just there to make headlines, I suppose.

BKDH_1984
10-06-2009, 11:32 AM
United States. :cool: :D :)

Blitz!
10-06-2009, 12:33 PM
On reading the section on criticism I find it lacking the most obvious criticism. Simplifying the living conditions in a country to a set of numbers on which to compare is always going to bring up discrepancies and inaccuracies. Would it really be preferable to live in Israel over Andorra? While both are nations that participate in the Eurovision Song Contest, one has been part of a conflict for 50 years whereas the other hasn't...

This point crossed my mind when I was reading the list, well not exactly, especially not the Eurovision Song contest. I see South Africa is ranked 128, which really doesn't surprise me, but Occupied Palestinian Territories ranked 110. Taking the conflict into consideration, I think I'll stay exactly where I am.

Tijs
10-06-2009, 01:48 PM
Hm, so my sister's moving to the right place then next month. An increase of 5 places!

Al Coholic
10-06-2009, 06:33 PM
Why wouldn't it be accurate? Or is my sarcasm detector not working correctly. :(
It doesn't strike you as odd that Mongolia has the least gender disparity, a full 104 notches above the US?

Jesus
10-07-2009, 12:01 AM
It doesn't strike you as odd that Mongolia has the least gender disparity, a full 104 notches above the US?

That would strike me as odd. But, it doesn't say that... just read what you quote again. ;)

The US is ranked 19th (with a value of 0.942) on GDI, while Mongolia is on position 92 (0.727).

sagspagic
10-07-2009, 01:03 AM
i like england,

Stylie
10-10-2009, 07:52 PM
Hm, really? Didn't expect we were that high up. Still the population of Norway lives an average life, with way too f*cking high taxes, food, fuel and so on. It's definitely not cheap to live in Norway, and the average population are not rich or anything. The sovereign state got plenty of money, but it seems like they use it more on foreigners than really on the Norwegian population, and the old ones. Tragic...

But sure, it's not baaad to live here! : ) But it's not cheap either...

wheelchairman
10-10-2009, 08:37 PM
Yeah it's too bad you don't have an extensive and universal welfare system, free education, and also an extensive and universal healthcare system. Where do these crazy taxes go to, other than the less than 10% population of foreigners that you have. o.O

Stylie
10-11-2009, 07:11 AM
It's crazy, just crazy...

wheelchairman
10-11-2009, 09:03 AM
I'm pointing out that you don't make sense.

Stylie
10-11-2009, 09:57 AM
A little burn on me, okey... But it's true.

KHWHD
10-12-2009, 06:39 AM
Norway has been #1 for as long as I can remember. At least it has when I have bothered to look. It always gets spoken highly of from a friend of mine who lives there. I want out of England. I’m almost certain Canada is to be my country of choice.

Interesting, we're #4 on the list. :) I'll trade ya, you move here to Canada and I'll move to England. When my kids grow up and move out of the house, London is where I'll be making my home. And no, I'm not kidding.

randman21
10-12-2009, 09:33 AM
Been listening to a lot of Datarock lately, so I'm not surprised by this.

Beaker
10-14-2009, 08:29 PM
Australia did not do to bad, :D

Thank god for medicare, centrelink and hecs. :p