View Full Version : Looks like we have ourselves an ETS

11-24-2009, 10:54 PM
The Australian parliament is to become the second western country in the world (after NZ) to pass legislation that would introduce a carbon trading emissions scheme intended to make consumers and producers responsible for the carbon they are producing either indirectly or directly (pay tax). Voting on the bill will occur on the 30th of November. The leader of the opposition in the Australian Parliament has decided to be the Prime Minister's bitch and agree to vote for this piece of legislation. This legislation will decrease our standard of living in Australia as prices of everything will be increased significantly. I have been emailing Senators from my state to stop this bill as this is the one place it can be stopped. I am disgusted at this slut Malcolm Turnbull's decision to back this new tax. Say good bye to reasonably priced petrol, groceries and travel costs in Australia.

11-25-2009, 12:32 AM

11-25-2009, 12:38 AM
You may want to provide a link, to some news sources that cover this topic if you'd like to see a wider response, since i'm willing to bet that the majority of the users of this bbs don't really follow Australian politics.

To be honest, i'm usually somewhat skeptical of environmental bills, but overall, cap and trade systems for carbon emissions aren't really a bad thing. I haven't studied this particular plan in great detail, but there seems to be some sort of financial safeguard in place (i'm assuming its tax credits) for low and middle income families, so that would essentially offset any rising costs in things like gas or car purchases.


Just walk away. Give me the pump the oil the gasoline and the whole compound, and I'll spare your lives. Just walk away.

11-25-2009, 04:09 AM
Couple of quick points:

1) Not the second country, given that the European Union already has an ETS and if you include the US ASEC bill it's more approaching to be like the 30th country.

2) People should pay for externalities.

3) We're approaching peak oil anyway, the IEA is gradually downscaling it's forecast for future global oil production every year (to probably avoid a panic). So depending on when the global recession ends you'll get higher and higher fossil fuel prices anyway from 2015 onwards. So it's better to already prepare your economy for the coming decades. Think of the dumb decision by US car manufactures betting on SUV's in the short run, while ignoring the long run.

4) Due to the underpricing of the actual cost of CO₂ emissions there is less research on alternative technologies and also an energy efficiency gap.

5) That it might raise commodity prices might be true, but that on itself is not an argument, since for instance not allowing companies to dump their waste wherever they want too also increases their costs.

6) Don't fall into the disappearing revenue trap. The money raised has to be spend, thus simply causing a transfer. Reminds me of the early tobacco lobby studies which claimed taxes on cigarettes would bankrupt us all

7) People, business and markets in general do react to incentives. The whole doom and despair mantra against carbon taxes or ETS from 'right wing think tanks' is pretty ironic, since according to them markets are totally awesome and can fix everything, but one simple tax is too much handle (and ignoring that ETS is actually a market solution).