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Llamas
01-11-2010, 04:10 PM
So my roommate suddenly won't eat all kinds of really good food, and when I asked him wtf his deal was, he said that he has back problems.

It took a lot of question asking and web searching to figure out what he was talking about, but I finally discovered the source: "nightshades". (http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?tname=george&dbid=62)

I've read maybe a dozen articles so far, and it all seems pretty wishy washy. None of the articles agree on what exactly is included in this "nightshades" category, and they say that what makes them toxic are alkaloids; but as far as I know, the alkaloids in these vegetables aren't toxic. From what I can tell, though, a shit load of people are following this advice - don't eat "nightshades". There's even a website, Tomatoes are Evil (http://tomatoesareevil.com/)

Has anyone else heard about this business? Anyone believe it? Try it? Think it's ridiculous? I'm just yet to read anything that seems founded in fact, rather than generic "fitness advice". I'd be interested in any information y'all have.

dexter12296566
01-11-2010, 04:50 PM
That is actually really interesting. I am a bit surprised that someone started a website about tomatoes being evil, though.

RickyCrack
01-11-2010, 05:07 PM
http://www.blastfromthepasttv.com/aotkttitle.jpg

nieh
01-11-2010, 05:25 PM
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/77/166034677_67031d337f.jpg

Al Coholic
01-11-2010, 06:34 PM
It was only a matter of time before these things started destroing the world.

http://cdn.buzznet.com/media-cdn/jj1/headlines/2008/01/paris-hilton-pastelle-shutter-shades.jpg

Little_Miss_1565
01-11-2010, 07:30 PM
While you were Googling, did you find anything about the various types of medical problems that cause homeopaths to recommend avoiding nightshades? It has nothing to do with nightshades being specifically evil; they can, however, promote inflammation. I avoided them for awhile until my doc figured out what was wrong with me. Wasn't an inflammatory disorder, so I was free once again to eat all the tomatoes, eggplant, and potatoes that I desire.

0r4ng3
01-11-2010, 07:30 PM
It was only a matter of time before these things started destroing the world.

http://archives.bulbagarden.net/media/upload/4/4f/Night_Shade.png

http://anime-wallpapers.com/images/800x600/gengars-night-shade.jpg

Llamas
01-11-2010, 07:58 PM
While you were Googling, did you find anything about the various types of medical problems that cause homeopaths to recommend avoiding nightshades? It has nothing to do with nightshades being specifically evil; they can, however, promote inflammation. I avoided them for awhile until my doc figured out what was wrong with me. Wasn't an inflammatory disorder, so I was free once again to eat all the tomatoes, eggplant, and potatoes that I desire.

No, I didn't. I was looking and looking for specific things they could possibly cause, and it was all trying to say, "Hey! There are alkaloids in this stuff! And there are alkaloids in cocaine and opium and poppy seeds!" A few articles like the first one I linked were considerably less stupid with their accusations, but still, the things they said in those articles were things they were assuming in blanket manners. I found scientific articles (or at least abstracts) that give proof of steroidal alkaloids help fight diseases, including skin diseases, hypertension, and ulcers.

The thing that strikes me is not that people are trying to inform people that there's a possibility that some particular foods could affect your health (any food can do that), but the fact that most of this stuff really paints it out to be terrible. Even the most normal, logical seeming sites still say that "unaffected" people who don't have these health problems, still need to be super careful about these foods. It just seems like one of those minor things that is twisted into something to scare everyone. I think the page I linked first was the only one I found that didn't call these foods "toxic" or "poison".

PS I highly approve of RC's pic!

Little_Miss_1565
01-11-2010, 08:28 PM
The first hit I found when googling "nightshades" says 'Since cooking only lowers alkaloid content of nightshade foods by about 40-50%, highly sensitive individuals may want to avoid this category of food altogether, while non-sensitive individuals may be able to eat these foods, especially in cooked form, without problem.'

Llamas
01-11-2010, 08:33 PM
But if you scroll down, it says: "Second, even if you are an individual with no existing health problems potentially related to nightshade intake, you will want to take precautions to avoid excessive intake of alkaloids from these foods."

Precautions to avoid excessive intake? Come on, everything in excess can be bad for you. That's just silly.

RickyCrack
01-12-2010, 03:37 AM
some quick imdbing has informed me that they are remaking "Attack of the killer tomatoes" in 2011.

Sidewinder
01-12-2010, 05:15 AM
The Celery Stalks at Midnight was a good-fucking-read, no joke.

Little_Miss_1565
01-12-2010, 08:52 AM
But if you scroll down, it says: "Second, even if you are an individual with no existing health problems potentially related to nightshade intake, you will want to take precautions to avoid excessive intake of alkaloids from these foods."

Precautions to avoid excessive intake? Come on, everything in excess can be bad for you. That's just silly.

Yeah, cut out the green parts of potatoes because they're not good for you, because that's where all those alkaloids show up when you've stored your potatoes improperly or for too long. You know, I'm really starting to feel like you go out of your way to seek out things to complain about, without really being informed about them. Even your "research" is just trying to make your roommate feel badly about a personal food choice he's making. And considering he doesn't have to share his medical background with you, you seem awfully judgmental.


I'm sorry I cannot add anything of value to this alkaloid debate.

Glad this doesn't stop you from posting anyway.

Llamas
01-12-2010, 09:34 AM
Yeah, cut out the green parts of potatoes because they're not good for you, because that's where all those alkaloids show up when you've stored your potatoes improperly or for too long. You know, I'm really starting to feel like you go out of your way to seek out things to complain about, without really being informed about them. Even your "research" is just trying to make your roommate feel badly about a personal food choice he's making. And considering he doesn't have to share his medical background with you, you seem awfully judgmental.

I haven't judged him about it at all.* I asked him about it, and he doesn't really know much (literally all he was able to tell me is that there is a possibility that pain in your body may be caused by potatoes, tomatoes, and peppers), so I tried researching it myself (especially because, if it IS a health risk, I wanna know about it) and didn't find anything concrete. I made a status asking about it on facebook and nobody responded, and so I thought it was worth asking people here if they knew anything. I'm very skeptical, yes, but I don't see how it's *complaining*. I don't care what he eats or doesn't eat... I was and am just curious whether this is real scientific theory or if it's just some "don't eat french fries cause they cause cancer" thing. It's in the nature of people who are particularly involved with or have studied biology/chemistry to be skeptical about this kind of thing until they see it explained scientifically.


*In fact, I've done nothing but respect my roommate's choice in diet... I cook meals without any trace of these things when I know I might possibly offer some when he gets home, I help make sure friends and I pick restaurants that serve other options (especially because these are some of the most commonly used vegetables in sauces and stuff), and I ask him about how he's feeling especially after swimming and such... maybe you think I'm being overly skeptical and critical-minded, but it's rather more rude to assume I'm making him feel bad about any of this.

Harleyquiiinn
01-12-2010, 09:57 AM
I was and am just curious whether this is real scientific theory or if it's just some "don't eat french fries cause they cause cancer" thing.

If that was the case, there would be nobody in Belgium by now :(

(Yes because french fries are belgian... or so I've been taught).

Llamas
01-12-2010, 10:01 AM
If that was the case, there would be nobody in Belgium by now :(

(Yes because french fries are belgian... or so I've been taught).

Ha, most of my friends in Wisconsin eat french fries pretty much on a daily basis! I didn't know they were from Belgium, though... I figured it was a British thing. But seriously, the funny thing about that "scare" is that anything in excess can cause cancer. It just depends on the person and how much "excess" there is.

Harleyquiiinn
01-12-2010, 10:04 AM
Ha, most of my friends in Wisconsin eat french fries pretty much on a daily basis! I didn't know they were from Belgium, though... I figured it was a British thing. But seriously, the funny thing about that "scare" is that anything in excess can cause cancer. It just depends on the person and how much "excess" there is.

Exactly, I like how they change their mind everyday in France about wine. One day it's good for you and one day you must avoid it.

But that's exactly the same. One glass a day or every 2 days is recommended for I don't really know what exactly but something good.

But starting 3 or 4 glasses and more everyday, it's bad for you.

Amazing ! Too much alcohol is bad ! I would never have guessed that...

SweetTatyana
01-12-2010, 10:31 AM
I can see why this stuff bothers Llamas, people with a biology background see a misuse of science and extrapolation of facts and it bothers them. As well she could be more concerned than judgemental.

Anyway I must admit that I don't have time to read those articles but what I will say about what I know is this:

Most people in western society are actually not pH balanced pointing towards the "more acidic", which is funny because many homeopaths will tell you thus to eat alkaloids (because they are basic) because acidic people apparently have a connection with cancer.
Also, a large amount of people also have problems with homeopathic medicine due to the absence of scientific evidence. Saying that a food or something has one affect outside the body certainly does not mean it will act the same way inside the body. There is a long way from mouth to absorption and unless you do molecular level analysis to look at mechanisms, with controls and multiple trials, you cannot identify causation. This is apparently where they are lacking.
People need to get away from these food fads, next year these are going to be claimed as the best thing for you! I can't wait until journalists and such alike will be held accountable for what they write.

Llamas
01-12-2010, 10:39 AM
First of all,


I can see why this stuff bothers Llamas, people with a biology background see a misuse of science and extrapolation of facts and it bothers them. As well she could be more concerned than judgemental.
Thank you. And you're exactly right. The main reason I looked it up in the first place was because I was like "whaaaat?? I love all three of those veggies! Life would suck if they're BAD for me!" I was worried at first... they'd be some of the hardest things ever to cut out of my diet - I love them far too much. The other main reason, though, is that I was a bit worried my roommate was buying into something that could actually prove to be UNhealthy for him, which is quite possible. Then came the point where everything I found just seemed rather silly.

Second of all,


Most people in western society are actually not pH balanced pointing towards the "more acidic", which is funny because many homeopaths will tell you thus to eat alkaloids (because they are basic) because acidic people apparently have a connection with cancer.
Wait... a person's entire body can be "more acidic"? Are you saying that most people are not balanced, and we tend to be "more acidic"? Huh, I never knew that. And that is a bit of a conundrum... to eat alkaloids or to not eat alkaloids? Where does this connection with cancer come from? Just high concentrations of acidity cause replication or something?

Third of all,


Also, a large amount of people also have problems with homeopathic medicine due to the absence of scientific evidence. Saying that a food or something has one affect outside the body certainly does not mean it will act the same way inside the body. There is a long way from mouth to absorption and unless you do molecular level analysis to look at mechanisms, with controls and multiple trials, you cannot identify causation. This is apparently where they are lacking.
People need to get away from these food fads, next year these are going to be claimed as the best thing for you! I can't wait until journalists and such alike will be held accountable for what they write.
Yes, yes oh GOD yes. This all so much. You said so much of what I was thinking, but didn't know how to say.

Especially that part in bold.

SweetTatyana
01-12-2010, 10:44 AM
First of all,

Wait... a person's entire body can be "more acidic"? Are you saying that most people are not balanced, and we tend to be "more acidic"? Huh, I never knew that. And that is a bit of a conundrum... to eat alkaloids or to not eat alkaloids? Where does this connection with cancer come from? Just high concentrations of acidity cause replication or something?



Well, apparently this has been studied by testing the production of body fluids you produce. I think they did it by using pH paper in someones saliva. I am not sure if this is accurate or not but apparently homeopaths have equated this with higher incidences of cancer, I am not sure how but my dad visited one once and told him all this. Of course I can't really find any information to back up the cancer point but I haven't really tried all too hard.

nieh
01-12-2010, 10:47 AM
I can see why this stuff bothers Llamas, people with a biology background see a misuse of science and extrapolation of facts and it bothers them. As well she could be more concerned than judgemental.

It's funny because I've gotten into some arguments with her for exactly the same thing.

Paint_It_Black
01-12-2010, 11:57 AM
I figured it was a British thing.

Why's that?


anything in excess can cause cancer.

I hope you just meant to say that anything in excess can be bad for you.

Little_Miss_1565
01-12-2010, 06:49 PM
I haven't judged him about it at all.* I asked him about it, and he doesn't really know much (literally all he was able to tell me is that there is a possibility that pain in your body may be caused by potatoes, tomatoes, and peppers), so I tried researching it myself (especially because, if it IS a health risk, I wanna know about it) and didn't find anything concrete.

You said he has a bad back, the homeopathic connection between nightshades and inflammatory disorders is decades old and not just another food "fad" like the cabbage diet or something, and the tone of your original post would not have belied that you respect his dietary experimentation when you cook for him.

As a personal example, I started drinking raw, unfiltered apple cider vinegar diluted with water because I have a history of sinus problems, allergies, and additional a non-inflammatory chronic pain disorder among other things. Do I think it's going to cure me? No. Does it taste kinda nasty? Yep. Am I going to stop doing it? Hell no. It doesn't have a bunch of nasty health risks and I see some benefits to my aforementioned health troubles, why not keep at it.

I don't pretend to understand what the deal is with alkalinity and pH theory with homeopathy, especially since most of them recommend apple cider vinegar to reduce your body acidity -- and ACV is, of course, an acid. But if it helps your roommate's back, for reasons that I suspect have little to do with body acidity and more to do with inflammatory properties, why not leave it at that?

Sidewinder
01-13-2010, 12:45 AM
As much as I joke about the South being a backwater, disgrace of a region, a lot of the 'sayings' that people laugh about really makes sense.

Sarah reminds me of one. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Seriously, if it's working, whether from the diet or placebo effect or something else entirely, if he's still feeling better, just let it be unless it gets worse again.

Vera
01-13-2010, 04:07 AM
Bull-fucking-shit. Give me paprika or give me death. :|

SweetTatyana
01-13-2010, 09:22 AM
But if it helps your roommate's back, for reasons that I suspect have little to do with body acidity and more to do with inflammatory properties, why not leave it at that?

Taking these things as truth can often impose negative risks, like if he is cutting out healthy foods that he likes and eats something unhealthy instead that is a clear deficit of vitamins. As well, often these things work as a placebo, because when you expect something to work, you're more open to perceiving effects that support the claim rather than those which don't. I hate this "alternative" medicine where people think just because it is alternative to what a doctor will tell you, it doesn't needed scientific basis. Its untruthful, detrimental and really, people act as if pharmaceuticals are the devil but a diet that tells you to cut out numerous vegetables isn't? I am sure anti-inflammatory drugs would actually cause a physical change, decrease pain while not producing side effects worse than this idea. Furthermore, decreasing the perception pain is only one goal of treatments, inflammation can have lots of negative effects on the tissue level as well - which are just as important for subsiding/curing. Using hocus pocus therapies like this may prevdelay getting to the root of the problem and which may cause tissue damage.
I don't mean to be attacking you in particular LM, I hope it doesnt seem that way. I actually know several people who drink ACV to prevent colds and other ailments - which could have scientific basis. Its kind of one of the really annoying things to people in my field, like we just want to get the claims scientifically tested and and verified to make it easier for people to live healthy and pain-free lives, without spending tons of money on supplements etc..

Harleyquiiinn
01-13-2010, 09:34 AM
As a personal example, I started drinking raw, unfiltered apple cider vinegar diluted with water because I have a history of sinus problems, allergies, and additional a non-inflammatory chronic pain disorder among other things. Do I think it's going to cure me? No. Does it taste kinda nasty? Yep. Am I going to stop doing it? Hell no. It doesn't have a bunch of nasty health risks and I see some benefits to my aforementioned health troubles, why not keep at it.


Ah ! I'm starting to get a little bit desperate with my sinus. I hate them and they seem to hate me back... But I'm not sure I want to try your thing... it sounds kind of disgusting. I inhale some pine tree oil instead... that works kind of good...

Paint_It_Black
01-13-2010, 01:10 PM
As a personal example, I started drinking raw, unfiltered apple cider vinegar

Is that available at just regular grocery stores?

I might try that. My sinus issues make me want to die half the time.

Sidewinder
01-13-2010, 01:37 PM
There are really helpful sinus rinses that are not nearly as uncomfortable as they sound. It's a slightly modified saline solution that you mix in a certain type of bottle (provided with the kit), squirt up one nostril, until it comes out the other. It did (does) WONDERS in keeping my sinuses mostly clear from the issues that weren't addressable by the surgery I had.

Paint_It_Black
01-13-2010, 01:55 PM
Where do I find those?

Harleyquiiinn
01-13-2010, 01:56 PM
There are really helpful sinus rinses that are not nearly as uncomfortable as they sound. It's a slightly modified saline solution that you mix in a certain type of bottle (provided with the kit), squirt up one nostril, until it comes out the other. It did (does) WONDERS in keeping my sinuses mostly clear from the issues that weren't addressable by the surgery I had.

beh, I have that sort of things but I can't take them, it makes my nose bleed... SINUSES SUCK !

(Strange thing, without that topic, I would never have guessed that sinuses problems were so common... I feel less original now...)

Edit for Paint_It_Black: If you suffer too much, my doc gave me this: http://www.nasonex.com/nasx/application The point is also to clear your sinuses and it works REALLY well... but I also had to stop using it because of the bleeding...

Paint_It_Black
01-13-2010, 02:09 PM
Nasonex didn't do anything for me. And my doctor was worthless. He kept wanting to try the same things over and over, and seriously forgot what we had already tried. My file would be laying right next to him, unopened, as he started prescribing the same things we'd tried last time.

Needless to say I will be searching out a new doctor, once I can actually afford to visit a doctor again. God bless the USA.

Little_Miss_1565
01-13-2010, 02:10 PM
Taking these things as truth can often impose negative risks, like if he is cutting out healthy foods that he likes and eats something unhealthy instead that is a clear deficit of vitamins..... Its kind of one of the really annoying things to people in my field, like we just want to get the claims scientifically tested and and verified to make it easier for people to live healthy and pain-free lives, without spending tons of money on supplements etc..

And spending tons of money on pain meds that can cause liver and stomach problems is somehow better? It's not like he's cutting out vegetables that have things you can't get anywhere else. It's an avoidance diet. It's not spending shitloads on acai berry scam supplements or some shit. What annoys me about people who so staunchly cling to traditional medicine is that they tend to lump all homeopathic remedies into one bucket. He's not "spending tons of money on supplements etc," he's cutting out nightshades from his diet. And he's not getting ulcers from NSAIDs in the process. Jayzus.


There are really helpful sinus rinses that are not nearly as uncomfortable as they sound. It's a slightly modified saline solution that you mix in a certain type of bottle (provided with the kit), squirt up one nostril, until it comes out the other. It did (does) WONDERS in keeping my sinuses mostly clear from the issues that weren't addressable by the surgery I had.

NETI POT. YES. OH FUCK YES.

Sidewinder
01-13-2010, 02:13 PM
Nasonex is NOT what I'm talking about. I'm talking about something that literally traverses your entire nasal sinus system. It feels tingly and awkward but afterward you're like HOLY SHIT I CAN BREATHE LIKE 10 TIMES BETTER WHAT THE FUCK WAS I DOING RUNNING A MARATHON?!

Harleyquiiinn
01-13-2010, 02:13 PM
Nasonex didn't do anything for me. And my doctor was worthless. He kept wanting to try the same things over and over, and seriously forgot what we had already tried. My file would be laying right next to him, unopened, as he started prescribing the same things we'd tried last time.

Needless to say I will be searching out a new doctor, once I can actually afford to visit a doctor again. God bless the USA.

Ah that sucks... good luck with that... the pine tree inhalations work quite fine for me... that's the only solution I found. Maybe the apple cider vinegar thing could be another although I have no idea where to find that...

Edit: Sidewinder, yes I got that, I didn't say it was... :)

Little_Miss_1565
01-13-2010, 02:14 PM
nah dude, you use a thing that looks kind of like a teapot, fill it with warm water and some non-iodized salt, and pour it in one nostril and out the other. Fucking disgusting but that shit WORKS.

Paint_It_Black
01-13-2010, 02:15 PM
Nasonex is NOT what I'm talking about.

Right, Harley suggested it though.

Little_Miss_1565
01-13-2010, 02:16 PM
FWIW I used Nasonex for awhile and got 45 minute long nosebleeds. I'll take homeopathic medicine plz and thank you.

Harleyquiiinn
01-13-2010, 02:18 PM
FWIW I used Nasonex for awhile and got 45 minute long nosebleeds. I'll take homeopathic medicine plz and thank you.

I just said Nasonex used to work for me. But it gives me nosebleeds too, so I had to stop...

Where do you find apple cider stuff ? I never saw any or maybe it just doesn't have the same name...

Little_Miss_1565
01-13-2010, 02:22 PM
The brand I use is Bragg's.

Llamas
01-13-2010, 02:24 PM
You said he has a bad back, the homeopathic connection between nightshades and inflammatory disorders is decades old and not just another food "fad" like the cabbage diet or something, and the tone of your original post would not have belied that you respect his dietary experimentation when you cook for him.
It's pretty amusing to me, especially after the thread al just made a week or two ago about people not getting tone on the internet unless you use tons of :D or :p... the fact that I've been here 4 years now and there are about 6 people who still take me FAR too seriously.


But if it helps your roommate's back, for reasons that I suspect have little to do with body acidity and more to do with inflammatory properties, why not leave it at that?
Because I'm trying to find out if there is any validity in this whole shebang for my own good. I don't see why that's so hard to understand. It's not like I'm any more likely to tell him that I think it's crazy bogus or that he shouldn't do it, than I am to tell a cigarette smoker that smoking causes cancer... I seriously don't see what the problem is with trying to be informed, and why it automatically must mean I'm going to give my friend a hard time and try to convince him not to do it.


As much as I joke about the South being a backwater, disgrace of a region, a lot of the 'sayings' that people laugh about really makes sense.

Sarah reminds me of one. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Seriously, if it's working, whether from the diet or placebo effect or something else entirely, if he's still feeling better, just let it be unless it gets worse again.
Again, how am I not "letting it be"? I am curious. I like to learn. It seems unfounded to me, and honestly this thread has provided me with more information about it than I'd found before.


Bull-fucking-shit. Give me paprika or give me death. :|
Preach it sista! I <3 paprika!


Taking these things as truth can often impose negative risks, like if he is cutting out healthy foods that he likes and eats something unhealthy instead that is a clear deficit of vitamins.
Though I haven't said anything to him about any of this, this was actually a concern I had when he told me. He's cut a great number of vegetables out of his diet... he often eats rice or bread as a substitute for potatoes because of how filling they are, but they offer completely different vitamins and nutrients. And he doesn't even try to replace tomatoes or peppers; he just won't eat anything that has any sign of these things in them. And these sites that tell you not to eat them don't inform their readers about how to make up for the deficit, which is not smart.


As well, often these things work as a placebo, because when you expect something to work, you're more open to perceiving effects that support the claim rather than those which don't.
This is extremely true. You can subconsciously convince your mind that something is working that isn't, and in the process rob your body of nutrients, and rob your taste buds.


I am sure anti-inflammatory drugs would actually cause a physical change, decrease pain while not producing side effects worse than this idea. Furthermore, decreasing the perception pain is only one goal of treatments, inflammation can have lots of negative effects on the tissue level as well - which are just as important for subsiding/curing. Using hocus pocus therapies like this may prevdelay getting to the root of the problem and which may cause tissue damage.
Yesyesyes. There are just too many reasons to question these things... just because they "seem" to work doesn't mean we should just ignore potential risks and let the media feed the public whatever it wants. Again, I'm still not trying to convince my roommate not to do this. If I were to find substantial evidence that it's unhealthy/bad, I would make him aware of this evidence, and leave it at that. I care about his health, but I've never been the kind to try to convince my friends to take care of their own bodies a certain way... except for the friend who was on heroin, and my sister who's an alcoholic. And that's obviously completely different.

But the real point of all this (how many times do I have to say it?) is that I'm curious about whether or not this is a serious concern, and if it's something I should be aware of for my own health. However, two pages into the thread, it definitely seems like I've nothing to worry about... I will continue to eat these delicious veggies. :)

Edit: people here should know pretty damn well how anti-drug I am, too. If I had the back problems he has, I would try different types of exercise and stretches, maybe try a chiropractor (if affordable), visit a doctor just for the perspective (the doctor could probably at least say what is causing the pain - he doesn't even know if he has inflammation or what)... there are fully natural supplements a person can take to try to alleviate pain, which I fully support. I just don't buy all the stuff out there that tells you to cut nutrient-rich parts out of your diet without any solid explanation.

SweetTatyana
01-13-2010, 04:12 PM
And spending tons of money on pain meds that can cause liver and stomach problems is somehow better? It's not like he's cutting out vegetables that have things you can't get anywhere else. It's an avoidance diet. It's not spending shitloads on acai berry scam supplements or some shit. What annoys me about people who so staunchly cling to traditional medicine is that they tend to lump all homeopathic remedies into one bucket. He's not "spending tons of money on supplements etc," he's cutting out nightshades from his diet. And he's not getting ulcers from NSAIDs in the process. Jayzus.

I'm not suggesting pain medication, I am suggesting anti-inflammatories, as I said it is important to stop the inflammation rather than simply cover the pain. My boyfriend is on anti-inflammatories, which doesn't come with an added risk of stomach or liver problems. I also said I would fully support homeopathic medicine if it were scientifically based which this, is not. This is based on experience. I infact go to a chiropractor, which is kind of considered alternative but in this case the evidence is there.

Little_Miss_1565
01-13-2010, 04:28 PM
Llamas, if you don't seem to bother making it clear on a written word medium when you are being sarcastic, you really shouldn't be surprised if and when people take you too seriously. Don't even try to push it back on me. And what about the people who don't like tomatoes, WHAT WILL THEY DO FOR THE L-LYSENE? SOMEONE THINK OF THE CHILDREN. ;)

Tatyana, Is the only reason you're saying this isn't scientifically based because of someone else's Google searches? Non-steroidal anti-inflammatories contributed to my stomach ulcers so I would hardly say they are safe.

Alison
01-13-2010, 04:29 PM
It all seems very...er... overdramatic. Especially that Tomatoes Are Evil website. Doesn't hel their case at all, whether it has truth in it or not.

Little_Miss_1565
01-13-2010, 04:30 PM
Please don't point at one person's insane web ranting to discredit dietary changes that have helped a lot of people I know.

Sidewinder
01-13-2010, 04:31 PM
I feel I should point out, Sarah, that children not raised on grilled cheese dipped in tomato soup have no claim on proper adulthood or deserve a place in society.

Alison
01-13-2010, 04:34 PM
I know it's just one website, and I'm only referring to that one website. I was intrigued by the other ones, but that particular one put me off. I know not to judge a whole idea on one website

Little_Miss_1565
01-13-2010, 04:35 PM
Llamas, are you serious about being worried he's swapped potatoes for rice?

Llamas
01-14-2010, 12:11 AM
If it wasn't bleached white rice, it'd potentially be better than potatoes. But bleached white rice is almost void of nutrients.

And I didn't say anywhere that nobody can be healthy without eating tomatoes. I didn't even imply that. :)

Little_Miss_1565
01-14-2010, 08:00 AM
You did, however, imply that he was denying himself important nutrients by avoiding potatoes, tomatoes, and eggplant. Which, to be honest, is kind of nuts.

Someone please tell the entire country of China that they are completely and totally fucked eating bleached white rice all the time.

Harleyquiiinn
01-14-2010, 08:07 AM
You did, however, imply that he was denying himself important nutrients by avoiding potatoes, tomatoes, and eggplant. Which, to be honest, is kind of nuts.

Someone please tell the entire country of China that they are completely and totally fucked eating bleached white rice all the time.

I'm pretty sure potatoes, tomatoes and eggplants are not nuts...

Little_Miss_1565
01-14-2010, 08:25 AM
I'm pretty sure potatoes, tomatoes and eggplants are not nuts...

Har har har.

Harleyquiiinn
01-14-2010, 08:36 AM
Har har har.

I know, right ?

I should have become a comedian... :(

SweetTatyana
01-14-2010, 02:01 PM
Tatyana, Is the only reason you're saying this isn't scientifically based because of someone else's Google searches? Non-steroidal anti-inflammatories contributed to my stomach ulcers so I would hardly say they are safe.
I am saying they are not scientifically based because I haven't seen any published, peer-reviewed journal articles backing them up.

As you can see, http://www.scielo.br/scielo.php?pid=S0102-695X2006000100020&script=sci_arttext&tlng=en
this is a review article of numerous peer-reviewed scientific articles which have shown that alkaloids have ANTI-INFLAMMATORY effects, so cutting them out would actually aid inflammation.
So really, either these friends benefited from these diets are either 100% placebo or made up.
No offense but really saying Llamas is pushing an argument you on, one of the first posts you made to her was something like: "I think you just search the internet for things to complain about" so really, put the halo down.

What is the name of the drug you were on? Contributed to your stomach ulcers how? This point may be correct because the sad thing about living in the states is that it actually is much easier to get drugs released on the market then in Canada and it should be regulated much better. This is why I am so stingent about scientific tests, and numerous of them, laborous almost to a fault because, for example, anti-inflammatory medicine should not be allowed if it is going to cause stomach ulcers. Really, what would you rather have, inflammation or stomach ulcers, especially since the latter can initiate a site of stomach cancer.

Little_Miss_1565
01-14-2010, 02:16 PM
I am saying they are not scientifically based because I haven't seen any published, peer-reviewed journal articles backing them up.

As you can see, http://www.scielo.br/scielo.php?pid=S0102-695X2006000100020&script=sci_arttext&tlng=en
this is a review article of numerous peer-reviewed scientific articles which have shown that alkaloids have ANTI-INFLAMMATORY effects, so cutting them out would actually aid inflammation.
So really, either these friends benefited from these diets are either 100% placebo or made up.
No offense but really saying Llamas is pushing an argument you on, one of the first posts you made to her was something like: "I think you just search the internet for things to complain about" so really, put the halo down.

I was just asking you a question, with no snark. I don't really care whether or not there is any scientific proof behind nightshades and inflammatory disorders, but it's helped people I know, placebo or not, so if it could help some people why not allow them to try it without picking it apart with sites like Tomatoes Are Evil. Llama's insistence that others take her too seriously when she doesn't bother making it clear in a written medium with no tonality when she is joking is not my problem.


What is the name of the drug you were on? Contributed to your stomach ulcers how? This point may be correct because the sad thing about living in the states is that it actually is much easier to get drugs released on the market then in Canada and it should be regulated much better. This is why I am so stingent about scientific tests, and numerous of them, laborous almost to a fault because, for example, anti-inflammatory medicine should not be allowed if it is going to cause stomach ulcers. Really, what would you rather have, inflammation or stomach ulcers, especially since the latter can initiate a site of stomach cancer.

It was Advil.

Llamas
01-14-2010, 06:16 PM
You did, however, imply that he was denying himself important nutrients by avoiding potatoes, tomatoes, and eggplant. Which, to be honest, is kind of nuts.
Potatoes are certainly the least healthy/beneficial of the category, but bleached white rice is not a good replacement. And he's not even trying to replace tomatoes, which previously accounted for most of his vitamin c and a, plus potassium.


Someone please tell the entire country of China that they are completely and totally fucked eating bleached white rice all the time.
Perhaps China's diet contributes to the fact that their life expectancy and overall health is considerably lower than in countries with more balanced diets. You are really exaggerating everything in this thread. They're totally fucked?


this is a review article of numerous peer-reviewed scientific articles which have shown that alkaloids have ANTI-INFLAMMATORY effects, so cutting them out would actually aid inflammation.
So really, either these friends benefited from these diets are either 100% placebo or made up.
I also came across a couple articles that said this, and used more proof than the ones who said they were dangerous. This was part of why I made the thread. I was confused, and looking for any knowledge others had about it.



I was just asking you a question, with no snark. I don't really care whether or not there is any scientific proof behind nightshades and inflammatory disorders, but it's helped people I know, placebo or not, so if it could help some people why not allow them to try it without picking it apart with sites like Tomatoes Are Evil. Llama's insistence that others take her too seriously when she doesn't bother making it clear in a written medium with no tonality when she is joking is not my problem.

I still don't see what I did in this thread to make you go at me and pick me apart so much. My initial post did nothing but explain a situation around me (in a light manner), link a couple sites, and ask if anyone knows anything about it. I linked tomatoes are evil because it was linked in several of the "more scientific" articles I read, and seemed to be considered fairly common among people who believe it.

And again:

why not allow them to try it without picking it apart
How many times do I have to explain this? My roommate telling me about it led me to wondering if it was something I should be concerned about - if I should look into dropping these foods from my diet. I researched it, didn't find anything solid, so I came here to ask. As I said before, even if I were to find substantial proof that it's bogus, the most I'd do is make him aware of/show him the science and go on my way. I have no interest in "not allowing him" to try it; I don't really care in the end what he eats. I care about his health as he's my friend, but I can care without hounding him about it or trying to stop him. This is the last time I'm explaining this, because you seem to be ignoring my explanations in favor of making assumptions and exaggerating everything I say.

Rag Doll
01-14-2010, 06:53 PM
FWIW I used Nasonex for awhile and got 45 minute long nosebleeds. I'll take homeopathic medicine plz and thank you.

Yeah, this I agree with. Though, pretty much EVERYTHING gives me a nosebleed since having sinus surgery and I never had a nosebleed in my life before that =(. I still need to get a neti pot....thank you, george sibley.

anyway....back to your conversation.

Llamas
01-14-2010, 06:56 PM
Yeah, this I agree with. Though, pretty much EVERYTHING gives me a nosebleed since having sinus surgery and I never had a nosebleed in my life before that =(.

Eeee! :( What did you have to get sinus surgery for?

Rag Doll
01-14-2010, 07:00 PM
When I was in high school I would get TONS of sinus infections and had constant sinus problems. the septum in my nose was deviated drastically to one side, so I got that fixed. I had my sinuses totally cleaned out and widened too. And uhh....it didn't do shit except give me bloody noses all the fucking time (like literally every day in the winter).

Llamas
01-14-2010, 07:29 PM
Wow... doesn't sound like that's any better than the sinus infections. So what do you do for your sinuses now? Do you still get the nosebleeds?

Rag Doll
01-14-2010, 08:13 PM
Still get nosebleeds every day. And uhh....I either just suffer or mooch sinus pills off my mens because he takes them too, but they don't work too good either. It's happened to some other people I know that have had the surgery as well. Other people have had it work wonders for them. *shrug* Definitely wasn't worth it for me though.

dexter12296566
01-14-2010, 08:22 PM
Yeah, this I agree with. Though, pretty much EVERYTHING gives me a nosebleed since having sinus surgery and I never had a nosebleed in my life before that =(. I still need to get a neti pot....thank you, george sibley.

anyway....back to your conversation.

dont get a nedipot. that is the thing that puts water thru right. i hate those. my allergy doctor made me use one. i use it alot. i suggest spraying saline up your nose. it doesnt feel as weird

Little_Miss_1565
01-14-2010, 09:29 PM
I still don't see what I did in this thread to make you go at me and pick me apart so much. My initial post did nothing but explain a situation around me (in a light manner), link a couple sites, and ask if anyone knows anything about it. I linked tomatoes are evil because it was linked in several of the "more scientific" articles I read, and seemed to be considered fairly common among people who believe it.

And again:

How many times do I have to explain this? My roommate telling me about it led me to wondering if it was something I should be concerned about - if I should look into dropping these foods from my diet. I researched it, didn't find anything solid, so I came here to ask. As I said before, even if I were to find substantial proof that it's bogus, the most I'd do is make him aware of/show him the science and go on my way. I have no interest in "not allowing him" to try it; I don't really care in the end what he eats. I care about his health as he's my friend, but I can care without hounding him about it or trying to stop him. This is the last time I'm explaining this, because you seem to be ignoring my explanations in favor of making assumptions and exaggerating everything I say.

I'm just in shock that you think this hard about what your adult roommate eats, like knowing where most of his dietary vitamin C comes from and whether or not he's replacing the vitamin C he had previously been getting from tomatoes. This doesn't strike you as kind of weird? My roommate sure as shit doesn't know where my vitamins come from, and if he ever had a word to say to me about my diet I would probably stick his hand in warm water while he slept.

Your explanations only leave me with more questions, chief among them why do you have this much energy invested in the personal choice of someone else? If all you wanted was to know if this was something you should be looking out for, how come after that you got wrapped up in whether or not there is anything scientifically behind this homeopathic practice? And since you don't have inflammatory pain problems, you shouldn't be at all concerned as to whether or not this is something you should be considering, so if he wants to trade one crap, white carbohydrate for another crap, white carbohydrate (but at least a crap, white carbohydrate that's a whole grain), isn't that why the baby Jesus gave us free will?

T-6005
01-14-2010, 10:43 PM
I hope Noam Chomsky thinks this hard.

Llamas
01-14-2010, 11:14 PM
I'm just in shock that you think this hard about what your adult roommate eats, like knowing where most of his dietary vitamin C comes from and whether or not he's replacing the vitamin C he had previously been getting from tomatoes. This doesn't strike you as kind of weird? My roommate sure as shit doesn't know where my vitamins come from, and if he ever had a word to say to me about my diet I would probably stick his hand in warm water while he slept.

Your explanations only leave me with more questions, chief among them why do you have this much energy invested in the personal choice of someone else? If all you wanted was to know if this was something you should be looking out for, how come after that you got wrapped up in whether or not there is anything scientifically behind this homeopathic practice? And since you don't have inflammatory pain problems, you shouldn't be at all concerned as to whether or not this is something you should be considering, so if he wants to trade one crap, white carbohydrate for another crap, white carbohydrate (but at least a crap, white carbohydrate that's a whole grain), isn't that why the baby Jesus gave us free will?

We both know about each other's dietary habits because we've talked about it. We've had quite a few discussions about what we eat, especially because I've made a lot of comments about differences between what Czechs typically eat vs. what Americans do, and about common Czech diets. He brings up health all the time, and constantly tells me (and one of my American friends) that he thinks things we do aren't healthy, and it doesn't bother us... we don't wish to stick his hand in warm water while he sleeps, we just get into discussions with him about it. I definitely don't see what's wrong with talking about what we eat/our diets/our health.

And I was looking into the scientific aspect from the beginning - from the second I started trying to find out more information about this stuff. A lot of these types of things do have scientific explanations, even if doctors didn't discover them. I have pains, mostly in my upper back and upper left side of my torso, but I don't know if they are caused by inflammation (just as my roommate). So yeah, if someone tells me they are not doing something because they have back pains, I'm going to see if there is any merit in it for my own pains. But it's cool that, because I didn't complain about my health problem here, you just assume that I don't have it and that I'm doing this to attack a friend.

Why do *you* care so much about what I know about my roommate and what we talk about, anyway? Does it really bother you so much if I decided to look into something he told me about? If I hadn't said anything about my roommate, and just started asking about the diet, would you still be going after me about it?

Little_Miss_1565
01-14-2010, 11:53 PM
Yeah, because the attitudes in this thread are something I feel very, very strongly against, as you and others can most likely tell. What it means to be healthy, how what we eat affects our mental and physical health, natural remedies versus traditional medicine, these are all things that are relevant to my interests. It's infuriating to read dismissals of things that help people because there aren't any scientific studies readily at hand.

T-6005
01-15-2010, 12:05 AM
And I was looking into the scientific aspect from the beginning - from the second I started trying to find out more information about this stuff. A lot of these types of things do have scientific explanations, even if doctors didn't discover them. I have pains, mostly in my upper back and upper left side of my torso, but I don't know if they are caused by inflammation (just as my roommate). So yeah, if someone tells me they are not doing something because they have back pains, I'm going to see if there is any merit in it for my own pains. But it's cool that, because I didn't complain about my health problem here, you just assume that I don't have it and that I'm doing this to attack a friend.

"If doctors didn't discover them" is where I stopped. Hate to aggravate the discussion but them MDs (PhDs) are preeeetty good.

Yeah, because the attitudes in this thread are something I feel very, very strongly against, as you and others can most likely tell. What it means to be healthy, how what we eat affects our mental and physical health, natural remedies versus traditional medicine, these are all things that are relevant to my interests. It's infuriating to read dismissals of things that help people because there aren't any scientific studies readily at hand.
Eh, I wouldn't ever dismiss the sweet greatness of the placebo effect. Aside from that, however, there's a difference between looking into confirmed data and theorized claims. And I don't think that's a mistake.

I'm not saying that anything that hasn't been discovered isn't real. I'm saying that (in a perfect world agh agh agh) generalized knowledge claims are hard to consider when they don't exist within accepted knowledge fields.

Little_Miss_1565
01-15-2010, 12:23 AM
"If doctors didn't discover them" is where I stopped. Hate to aggravate the discussion but them MDs (PhDs) are preeeetty good.

Eh, I wouldn't ever dismiss the sweet greatness of the placebo effect. Aside from that, however, there's a difference between looking into confirmed data and theorized claims. And I don't think that's a mistake.

I'm not saying that anything that hasn't been discovered isn't real. I'm saying that (in a perfect world agh agh agh) generalized knowledge claims are hard to consider when they don't exist within accepted knowledge fields.

I've spent more of my life than necessary getting dicked around by doctors, which is what piqued my interest in nontraditional medicine.

And I don't discount the awesomeness of the placebo effect at all. Relief from pain, suffering, etc etc is very sweet and once you've lived with constant pain you're pretty much willing to try anything to make it stop. And if something works, or at least makes you feel like it works, it is a gift.

I totally understand the difficulty in accepting claims as you describe. What I don't understand is the reluctance/refusal to accept the possibility that there could be something to it, that it's potentially not harmful, and that there is the possibility suffering could be relieved.

Al Coholic
01-15-2010, 12:42 AM
I totally understand the difficulty in accepting claims as you describe. What I don't understand is the reluctance/refusal to accept the possibility that there could be something to it, that it's potentially not harmful, and that there is the possibility suffering could be relieved.

You can blame that reluctance partly on the amount of Bullshit quasi-medical products that we're all bombarded with. It's a turn off of the whole industry. And that's exactly what "non-traditional medicine" is, an industry. That there could be something to it? I'm a skeptic but I'll give you that. Not saying much though. I mean there could be something to the idea that holding in all my farts forever will cure cancer. Me personally, the industries tainted by so much nonsense I'd rather not wade through it to give something unproven a try. I'm sure some things work and maybe a rare few are more than placebo but if you catch me going that route pity me, because it means I'm desperately sick.

Little_Miss_1565
01-15-2010, 12:47 AM
I'm sure some things work and maybe a rare few are more than placebo but if you catch me going that route pity me, because it means I'm desperately sick.

Yeah, pretty much sounds like the world of chronic pain.

And yes, the mainstream version of alternative medicine is an industry -- the supplement side. But there isn't any money to be made in the idea of not eating certain foods.

Paint_It_Black
01-15-2010, 02:05 AM
I hope Noam Chomsky thinks this hard.

I recently visited Barnes and Noble with the intention of picking up one of his books. I asked the girl at the desk if they had it, because I'm lazy and don't like to wander around looking.

Her respone was "Gnome, like the little people?"

I was nice though.

Llamas
01-15-2010, 04:16 AM
Yeah, because the attitudes in this thread are something I feel very, very strongly against, as you and others can most likely tell. What it means to be healthy, how what we eat affects our mental and physical health, natural remedies versus traditional medicine, these are all things that are relevant to my interests. It's infuriating to read dismissals of things that help people because there aren't any scientific studies readily at hand.

I've never once discounted or dismissed natural remedies. As I've said before (in this thread and many times on this bbs), I'm quite afraid of traditional medicine and avoid the doctor. I very often err on the side of trying natural things before visiting the doctor. You are again twisting my words. I will try taking something without scientific proof that it works (as long as I feel I have proof that it isn't dangerous), but I won't remove something healthy from my diet without substantial evidence that it's legit. I've been dicked around plenty by doctors, and I have my fair share of wonderful health problems that doctors have been complete idiots and/or douches about. I've tried many a natural alternative in my life, which is exactly why I was asking about this "nightshades" thing. I mean, god! If I was anti-natural remedies and dismissed the whole thing, only listening to doctors, why would I even make a thread asking people if they have experience with or information about a particular claim? That wouldn't make any sense, and I really don't understand how you possibly drew that conclusion.


"If doctors didn't discover them" is where I stopped. Hate to aggravate the discussion but them MDs (PhDs) are preeeetty good.
I'm confused... I agree that MDs are damn good. What are you talking about?


I generally agree with what Al and T said, though maybe a bit less extremely. I'm a natural skeptic when it comes to any form of medicine, and generally feel bombarded by all the medicinal claims I see, most of which disappear after a couple years as people realize they're bogus and stop listening.

Vera
01-15-2010, 05:40 AM
God, such an argument over nothing.

Dude tries certain method of getting rid of backpain that doesn't really do him any harm if he eats healthily otherwise. If it works, it works. If it don't, it don't.

llamas, 1565 probably sees your keen interest in the whole matter as meddling with this dude's life and choices a little too much. You might be interested in these things in general but it's one thing to be interested in it and researching alternative medicine or studies about food products or chemicals or whatever, and it's another thing to stick your nose into personal business of another person and their choices in taking care of themselves. I know I would hate for my flatmate (who is a very health-conscious athlete sort of person, my complete opposite basically) to look down on my after-dinner chocolate pudding or my choice to eat more veg dinners or whateverthefuck. If I told her I'm not using margarine for the rest of the year to see if it makes my chipmunk cheeks smaller, I wouldn't want her to go on the internet, research the whole thang and come back at me with, "nu huh it doesn't! keep dreaming titface!".

None of the claims ("Bad science hurts! Me and the squirrels!", "I'm just skeptical about this..", "I'm just interested..") don't really take away from the "none of your beeswax" crux of the matter. He's not buttfucking himself with a birch tree branch, not eating tomatos is hardly gonna hurt him. (Unless we are talking about Birch's "tree branch" which I hear actually has great medicinal purposes.)

And honestly you both need to stop employing the "why do *you* care so much?" "no why do *YOU* care so much about why I care so much?" line of questioning.

With love and respect and no rotten tomatos,

Titface

Llamas
01-15-2010, 05:51 AM
I would totally see your point if I was actually meddling in his affairs, but as I said before, he and I talk about health and diet all the time. We think it's really interesting and important, and we often cook for each other and eat together. We talk about what we eat frequently. One time, he didn't eat something that had tomatoes, and I asked why... he explained a bit, and said he's show me where he read about it, if I was interested, but then he couldn't remember where, or something. He asked me I think yesterday if I've found anything about it, and I told him not really. We talked about it again, and he said that maybe he'll be able to find where he read about it again, but he doesn't even really remember what it said or where it was. It was probably quite some time ago.

So, as you hopefully can tell, I'm not sitting here being a judgmental condescending roommate who tries to tell her friend what he should and shouldn't eat - it's something we have healthy discussions about, and that we're both curious about. If I were to find substantial evidence leaning either way, I'd tell him about it, we'd discuss it if he wanted to (which he probably would), and that'd be the end of it. I think that sticking your nose into other people's diets is rude as hell, but that's simply not what's going on here. We both care about our health, and we compare notes all the time.

Saying I was "concerned" about him was probably the wrong word choice, but yeah I care because we talk about it frequently and are working together on being healthy in a lot of ways.

The biggest update on the situation is that he looked into things a bit after asking me if I'd found any information, and he said that it seems that alkaloids, which are what these sources claim to be the problem, are in an extremely large number of foods, and now he thinks that if alkaloids are a problem, he'd have to cut out most of his diet. But neither of us have found anything all that persuasive, and he's continuing to not eat them unless he's sure they're okay, while I'm continuing TO eat them unless I'm sure they're not. :-P

Little_Miss_1565
01-15-2010, 08:00 AM
Vera is, of course, right on the money. Llamas, don't take this the wrong way, but sometimes what you say is really, really difficult to understand.


(Unless we are talking about Birch's "tree branch" which I hear actually has great medicinal purposes.)

I will gladly organize some kind of medical trial to prove or disprove this. (My money's on "prove.")

Llamas
01-15-2010, 08:25 AM
Llamas, don't take this the wrong way, but sometimes what you say is really, really difficult to understand.

This I know. I've said many times in the past that people misunderstand me here all the damn time. Everyone here pretty much knows that I apparently can't make myself clear via this medium. The problem is that I type very formally. I don't really know how to use inflection through typed words as most people do, and things like my tone of voice and body language are especially necessary for people to understand me. The fact that everybody misunderstands me here has been pointed out countless times in the four years I've posted here. It'd be nice if people kept that in mind and gave me the benefit of the doubt before going at me, though.

Little_Miss_1565
01-15-2010, 08:33 AM
Llamas, I don't know you very well. Of course it would be nice to get the benefit of the doubt, but when people don't know you very well, this is exceedingly difficult.

Harleyquiiinn
01-15-2010, 08:38 AM
Llamas, I don't know you very well. Of course it would be nice to get the benefit of the doubt, but when people don't know you very well, this is exceedingly difficult.

Oh come on, even I know that most of the time, when you argue with llamas, there is a chance that this is just a misunderstanding :D

But for the rest: I agree with what some others say. Do what you want with your health and leve the others be. But I understand curiosity and interest. I am curious too.

Little_Miss_1565
01-15-2010, 08:54 AM
Oh come on, even I know that most of the time, when you argue with llamas, there is a chance that this is just a misunderstanding :D

People say truly bizarre things on this forum every day; reading as many of the posts as I have to do, it is really difficult to keep straight who can't form an argument and who is...a bit off. Maybe PMing certain people has caused me permanent brain damage -- it would certainly be within the realm of possibility. But I think it's kind of BS to push constant misunderstandings back on the person reading the post. Shouldn't there be more of an effort to make what you write more clear?

Harleyquiiinn
01-15-2010, 08:58 AM
People say truly bizarre things on this forum every day; reading as many of the posts as I have to do, it is really difficult to keep straight who can't form an argument and who is...a bit off. Maybe PMing certain people has caused me permanent brain damage -- it would certainly be within the realm of possibility. But I think it's kind of BS to push constant misunderstandings back on the person reading the post. Shouldn't there be more of an effort to make what you write more clear?

lol for the permanent damage thing. Maybe you should ask the Offspring for damages... I'm sure you have a case ! you should think about it.

(Seriously though, I wonder if considering the amount of time you spend here and the subordination you probably have concerning the rules of moderation, you guys could requalify your role as moderators into a labour contract and have a salary... hmm...)

Little_Miss_1565
01-15-2010, 09:02 AM
Not going to get into details, but I keep doing this because there are some bright spots that I wouldn't want to give up unless I really needed to.

Harleyquiiinn
01-15-2010, 09:05 AM
Not going to get into details, but I keep doing this because there are some bright spots that I wouldn't want to give up unless I really needed to.

lol, of course... I wasn't being serious

I think it's just a friday evening crisis. And also the fact that I am working on labour law stuff so that gets into my head. I dreamt about it last night :(

:D

Llamas
01-15-2010, 09:13 AM
Just so you know, I've tried since I got here to be "more clear". It's apparently beyond me. I'm clear as day in formal papers, and somehow I think I'm even okay in IM... but here? No chance. So yeah, I do try... I just feel like people often take every opportunity to freak out on me because of my history here.

Llamas
01-15-2010, 09:32 AM
ahahahahaha, not that this is in the same ballpark as the nightshades stuff, but I just saw this and definitely thought of this thread. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0kmrFBnrkqg

Someone tell me this is a joke!

Vera
01-15-2010, 10:06 AM
This I know. I've said many times in the past that people misunderstand me here all the damn time. Everyone here pretty much knows that I apparently can't make myself clear via this medium. The problem is that I type very formally. I don't really know how to use inflection through typed words as most people do, and things like my tone of voice and body language are especially necessary for people to understand me. The fact that everybody misunderstands me here has been pointed out countless times in the four years I've posted here. It'd be nice if people kept that in mind and gave me the benefit of the doubt before going at me, though.

It's not really on us, you know. You have the benefit of typing in your own mother tongue; if you can't make yourself clear or get misunderstood, that's terrible but it's on you to figure out how to fix it (unless you have some sort of complex social/medical disorder or anxiety that makes these things incredibly difficult for you -- I've ran into such cases on livejournal and that's of course unfortunate) or then not fix it and try to not give a damn about getting misunderstood. I mean, are we to constantly think -- wow I really disagree with her views on this, but I'm probably just misunderstanding her because she has trouble communicating herself? -- when we disagree. Come on..

Anyway, I'm going to stop replying now because it's going off-topic and getting kind of weird.

Paint_It_Black
01-15-2010, 05:40 PM
I've said many times in the past that people misunderstand me here all the damn time.

I'm not convinced that I misunderstand you. I still think I might simply disagree with roughly 70 percent of what you say.

I'm cool with that though.

Sidewinder
01-15-2010, 06:36 PM
I'd just like to say that I'm totally with Sarah here; I've had sinus/asthma/allergy problems all my life, taken all sorts of medicines, and even had surgery. The best thing for my sinuses/allergies was moving out of my hometown which is just an awful place for that sort of thing. I'm 10 times better now and I live on a campus which is ia nationally recognized arboretum ffs. Medicine never did nearly this for me.

The best thing I ever did for asthma was swim. The moist, warm air and exercise had me at an average of 110% oxygen level despite having asthma with or without having taken my medicine for it.

I'm not against medicine, I just think a good bit of it is extremely overrated.