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Al Coholic
01-15-2010, 03:11 PM
Rush Limbaugh is not backing down from his claim that President Barack Obama is trying to score political points off the earthquake in Haiti.

Challenged by a caller during his show Thursday, Limbaugh said: “If I said it, I meant to say it, and I do believe that everything is political to this president.”

“Everything this president sees is a political opportunity, including Haiti, and he will use it to burnish his credentials with minorities in this country and around the world, and to accuse Republicans of having no compassion,” Limbaugh said in comments flagged by the liberal blog Think Progress.

Limbaugh has come under fire from both the right and the left for saying that the earthquake played directly into Obama’s hands, allowing him to look “compassionate.” The host claimed the White House’s response would bolster Obama’s standing in the “light-skinned and dark-skinned black community in this country.”

He also appeared to discourage help for the island nation, saying, “We've already donated to Haiti. It’s called the U.S. income tax.”

Critics have characterized Limbaugh’s comments as insensitive and tone-deaf at a time when heartbreaking images of the devastation dominate news coverage.

Confronted with some of that criticism, Limbaugh slammed a caller as “close-minded.”

“What I’m illustrating here is that you’re a blockhead,” Limbaugh shot back. “What I’m illustrating here is that you’re a close-minded bigot who is ill-informed.”

“If you had listened to this program for a modicum of time, you would know it,” he said. “But instead, you’re a blockhead. Your mind is totally closed. You have tampons in your ears. Nothing is getting through other than the biased crap that you read.”

I'm on the fence as to wether he's said this kind of nonsense so many times he actually believes it, or wether he's smart enough to know that he can say whatever and half his audiance will nod accordingly. Either way you're talking about thousands of dead people, many more injured and god knows how many already poor as fuck people homeless. It's one thing not to care, but to use even shit like this for your propaghanda is just sick.

But the worst of it is his listeners. The guy's whole show seems to have shifted into creating a culture that embraces pure capitalism as a religion. I mean if there was the right political climate, Rush would oppose child labor laws as bigoted and liberal. And his listeners would agree for reasons they don't understand. I mean, EVERY president sends foreign aid. It's what we do. It's probably SOP for fucks sake. But I guarantee thousands of his listeners not only heard but are now regurgitating that "Obama jus wants blax to vote for him, dat is y he is doing dis. Booooo racism" Without even questioning something like "hmm, wasn't that the most one-sided demographic he owned? Was it 96 or 97%? Didn't over 90% of them even vote for a guy like Kerry?"

And yeah, if he didn't Rush would spin it that Obama doesn't care about black people, that those votes are in the bag. Or that he's inept at diplomacy, whatever. Again, it's not Rush that bothers me. It's the people that make Rush. If this asshole was working as a Walmart as an assitant manager spouting out his nonsense, would it bother you? No. But the hypocrites that follow him without question give him the power to say essentially whatever.

Spin used to be a bit more clever. Now it's easy. Anything and everything can be spun to your political ideals, and it doesn't fucking matter how dumb it sounds. Somebody will hear it, repeat it, and feel smart doing it.

DMelges
01-15-2010, 03:27 PM
I have never heard his show, and don't plan on doing so. But it's a bit obvious that his listeners, who simply nod accordingly, are incapable of forming an opinion of their own about a situation, so they adopt someone elses, no matter how ridicule it may be. He has said it to himself enough times to believe, and because of that he knows that he can say whatever and half his audiance will agree.

dexter12296566
01-15-2010, 03:30 PM
I think the worst kind of people are the loud obnoxious people who don't shut up, yell, spaz out and think they are great and funny. Especially if they have an obnoxious voice. You guys don't know my voice and it isn't great but the person I am referring to is just obnoxious!

0r4ng3
01-15-2010, 03:37 PM
That post was...oddly appropriate to the thread.

holland25
01-15-2010, 03:39 PM
I think the worst kind of people are the loud obnoxious people who don't shut up, yell, spaz out and think they are great and funny. Especially if they have an obnoxious voice. You guys don't know my voice and it isn't great but the person I am referring to is just obnoxious!

Have you at least read Al's post?

DMelges
01-15-2010, 04:03 PM
I think the worst kind of people are the loud obnoxious people who don't shut up, yell, spaz out and think they are great and funny. Especially if they have an obnoxious voice. You guys don't know my voice and it isn't great but the person I am referring to is just obnoxious!

COMPLETELY off topic.

WebDudette
01-15-2010, 04:35 PM
I have very little experience with Rush, but he seems to be significantly worse then even Glenn Beck.

Al Coholic
01-15-2010, 06:26 PM
So, because an earthquake destroyed the lives of 50,000 or so, all the wars, famines, and human tragedies beside have magically stopped? Interesting. I must really be behind the times.

No, just no. This is a fairly common observation, and it's annoying. I don't wanna make a personal slant at you, so don't take offense. But what irks me here is that it's kind of predictable. Those wars and famines are always going on somewhere, it's a reality of life. It's documented, known by all of us, and we don't do much if anything. There isn't anything urgent to be said, it's been an urgent situation somewhere as long as you've been.

However, this new disaster WILL spark new donations, because there is a brand new sense of urgency and media coverage. So why not advertise it? Don't blame the fact that yahoo! only advertises new disasters, blame the fact that that's all we'll respond to.


What you should be asking, is why isn't regular charity a part of our culture, and why isn't there a charity tab always active, always advertising something different?

DMelges
01-15-2010, 08:18 PM
I have very little experience with Rush, but he seems to be significantly worse then even Glenn Beck.

No, nothing is worse than Glenn Beck.


However, this new disaster WILL spark new donations, because there is a brand new sense of urgency and media coverage. So why not advertise it? Don't blame the fact that yahoo! only advertises new disasters, blame the fact that that's all we'll respond to.

Yes. I was watching the news just today and saw that alot of young people (15-17) are donating throught text messages. Sending a text to that 90999 (I think that's the number). And never before have so many people contributed.

Little_Miss_1565
01-15-2010, 08:26 PM
Dusky's being just as much of an attentionseeker as Rush and Pat Robertson. Don't give it.

jacknife737
01-15-2010, 08:31 PM
No, nothing is worse than Glenn Beck.

Statistically speaking Rush is worse: he averages 13.5 million listeners, while Beck only manges to get around 2.9 million viewers. He's obviously better at spreadin' the hate.

DMelges
01-15-2010, 08:42 PM
Statistically speaking Rush is worse: he averages 13.5 million listeners, while Beck only manges to get around 2.9 million viewers. He's obviously better at spreadin' the hate.

Interesting point you have there.

But nonetheless, I hate Beck. And O'Reilly. Here's the thing. To me, Politics cannot be personal. You have to give the facts as they are and leave it that way. Beck and O'Reilly talk way to fucking much. And even though many people seem to agree with them, I think they're douchebags who wait with their thumbs up their asses waiting for the next politician, or anyone as a matter of fact, to talk bad about.
And even though you may argue with me that their shows are for discussing and opiniating about such things, as politics and the government, I still think they should keep their opinions to themselves. And when the 'perfect' president appears, they'll still be bashing and bashing on and on.

Ok, I think I made myself clear about my view on Fox News, lol. Started rambling there, sorry.

Don't forget to add Kanye West to the list.

Paint_It_Black
01-16-2010, 01:01 AM
Spin used to be a bit more clever. Now it's easy. Anything and everything can be spun to your political ideals, and it doesn't fucking matter how dumb it sounds. Somebody will hear it, repeat it, and feel smart doing it.

What's really horrifying is how good the right wing is at this, and how little challenge they seem to receive. Jon Stewart seems to do the best job of debunking their crap, and while I love him it is shameful that we have to rely on a self-professed comedian heading up what is meant to be primarily a comedy show.

Depending on who you listen to the media in the US is either dominated by liberals or conservatives. The only thing probably almost everyone could agree on is that there is a terrible lack of non-biased, fact based, responsible reporting.

And what is the best way to counteract the spin anyway? Does presenting the actual facts and calling out the spindoctors actually work? Or do you have to play the game and fight them with lies and half-truths of your own? It seems like those that try to play fair end up constantly on the defensive, always responding to some new and increasingly ridiculous criticism. Taking the fight to them might work better, but then you've sunk to their level. So what do you do?

The really saddening thing is there are just so many people who actively want to believe the crap that individuals like Rush and Beck spew out. They really want this stuff to be true so they require absolutely no convincing. Presenting them with contrary facts and/or logical arguments seems to only strengthen their resolve and certainty.

What can you do?

Homer
01-16-2010, 01:12 AM
If only Liberals weren't so anti-guns... then we'd have good assassinations.

Llamas
01-16-2010, 04:43 AM
Richard, I think you're the first strongly politically affiliated person I've heard say that there is no non-biased media. Good on you. I get so frustrated by lefties saying that CNN and NBC aren't biased... and righties saying Fox isn't biased... it drives me nuts.

I also fully agree about Jon Stewart, and how sad it is that people have to depend on him for that.

I think the left should never stoop to the level of Beck and Limbaugh... it sucks to always be on the defense, but stooping gives them more fuel to use against the left... plus, it would suck to really be no better than those pricks.

My thought for this thread is: if the democratic party went bankrupt, and the republicans took over, Glenn Beck and Rush Limbaugh and Bill O'Reilley would:

a) become unemployed, after a few months of rubbing it in the left's face.
b) somehow find an angle to use to switch sides against the republicans (and they'd keep their same audience, too).
c) stage a terrorist attack on the US and blame it on the now-defunct democrats, just so they have a reason to still bitch about them.

nieh
01-16-2010, 07:30 AM
I'm put off by attractive new tabs, and I don't generally donate, neither will I donate for this Haiti tragedy. I sometimes give some euros to the local tramps.

So you're complaining that them temporarily focusing on Haiti is taking away from all the wars and stuff that have been going on for years...when you've never done anything for the causes you're pissed off this is overshadowing. That makes lots of sense.

Paint_It_Black
01-16-2010, 09:00 AM
Maria, I understand the attitude and frustration you are displaying. I expect everyone feels it a bit from time to time. But I don't see how it makes a case against donating to charity. Yes, it should be the responsibility of any government to protect and care for any people within its borders who are not able to care for themselves for whatever reason. But is that reality? No. I recommend against living a life based on what ought to be. It's up to each and every one of us to try to alleviate the suffering of the less fortunate in any small way we can. Or, you can be entirely selfish. That's valid too if you are philosophically committed to it. Are you committed to selfishness?


Richard, I think you're the first strongly politically affiliated person I've heard say that there is no non-biased media.

I think you're the first person who has ever described me as strongly politically affiliated. I suppose that's entirely accurate as long as you just mean affiliated with the left in general and not any particular party.

Al Coholic
01-16-2010, 11:15 AM
Richard, I think you're the first strongly politically affiliated person I've heard say that there is no non-biased media. Good on you. I get so frustrated by lefties saying that CNN and NBC aren't biased... and righties saying Fox isn't biased... it drives me nuts.

I also fully agree about Jon Stewart, and how sad it is that people have to depend on him for that.

I think the left should never stoop to the level of Beck and Limbaugh... it sucks to always be on the defense, but stooping gives them more fuel to use against the left... plus, it would suck to really be no better than those pricks.

My thought for this thread is: if the democratic party went bankrupt, and the republicans took over, Glenn Beck and Rush Limbaugh and Bill O'Reilley would:

a) become unemployed, after a few months of rubbing it in the left's face.
b) somehow find an angle to use to switch sides against the republicans (and they'd keep their same audience, too).
c) stage a terrorist attack on the US and blame it on the now-defunct democrats, just so they have a reason to still bitch about them.

Right-wing talk show hosts did just fine from 03-06 when the democrats didn't have a thing.

ninthz
01-16-2010, 11:36 AM
Not sure why people jumped on Maria in this thread. I mean, people can bring the out-pouring of charity to the attention of others, but have any of you donated? Has everyone in this thread donated? I doubt it, so just because someone might find themselves reacting sensitively to this whole tragedy but still manages to not contribute to its aid is no better than those callous to the situation.

Besides, Maria admitted to giving change to the homeless. I don't give bums money. I don't give bums cigarettes. I see homeless people everyday living in Iowa City. They hang out in the ped mall. They buy booze from my liquor store. I feel zero connection to them as human beings and, as such, do not want to help them with whatever it is they're trying to do.

That's not entirely true. I was kind of pals with a homeless guy last year because he always made funny signs and seemed kind of sad at the same time. He used to come into my store and buy .750s of Hawkeye Vodka and always had exact change. Then one time he came in with bandages over his wrists from a botched suicide attempt, complaining about hospital protocol and a particular politician (spouting racist rhetoric). That's when we stopped being pals and I think he killed himself either that night or the following one. So yeah, I feel zero connection to the homeless. Charity can go fuck itself.

This verges on white knight faggotry.

Little_Miss_1565
01-16-2010, 11:42 AM
I donated, Ninthz. Via text message to the Red Cross (don't donate to Wyclef's Yele Haiti, they are not first responders and can't help effectively). It was stupidly easy and anyone who can spare $10 should do it. HAITI to 90999 and suchlike.

What I don't understand is why people are giving attention to someone very clearly pulling a Glenn Beck/Rush/Pat Robertson on us. Say something intentionally inflammatory and then repeat it when no one bites -- sound familiar to anyone?

ninthz
01-16-2010, 11:56 AM
That's cool Sarahz. It's neat how easy they made it. Does it just add ten bones to your cell phone bill at the end of the month or something?

And I think Maria is a lot more passive than what you're describing. I mean, I think I've trolled her enough in my time to read her posting intentions pretty clearly. She just seems slightly agitated. I think I was the same way, initially, during Katrina.

ninthz
01-16-2010, 12:10 PM
Remember when I used to act like I was conservative? Rush is like that, only serious.

ninthz
01-16-2010, 12:18 PM
Send nudes.

ninthz
01-16-2010, 12:28 PM
Nice reversal.

Little_Miss_1565
01-16-2010, 12:29 PM
That's cool Sarahz. It's neat how easy they made it. Does it just add ten bones to your cell phone bill at the end of the month or something?

Yup. Pretty awesome. Just sad to see that no one really giving a shit about the abject fuckeduppedness of Haiti until now means that there is almost no infrastructure to distribute aid. The airport can't handle the traffic, the roads can't handle the traffic, just sad.

DMelges
01-16-2010, 12:34 PM
What's the diff between giving a fin to the local buskers or to the tragedy-stricken Haitians? At least I know somebody in need when I see them.

It's funny you say that...

The other day a homeless woman came to my house asking for money. She had a heart warming story (as they all do), and she convinced me to help her out. But instead of giving her money, I offered to buy her food. And guess what? She cursed at me, at walked away, not accepting the offer.

Unfortunatley you can't always know when someone in need really deserves the help.

Little_Miss_1565
01-16-2010, 12:42 PM
Unfortunatley you can't always know when someone in need really deserves the help.

Which is why you should give to organizations, not people. Though I give to musicians if they're good, being one myself. One guy hauled an entire upright piano down to the Union Square subway platform. Super impressive.

DMelges
01-16-2010, 12:48 PM
Which is why you should give to organizations, not people. Though I give to musicians if they're good, being one myself. One guy hauled an entire upright piano down to the Union Square subway platform. Super impressive.

Yeah, I always give to musicians when I can also. Being musicians myself aswell, I know that it's not easy to play in public for some spare change.

It does piss me off that the credit card companies are profiting from all the donations.... they should give all the money they can and not profit from something like this.

Llamas
01-16-2010, 06:53 PM
I think you're the first person who has ever described me as strongly politically affiliated. I suppose that's entirely accurate as long as you just mean affiliated with the left in general and not any particular party.
Yeah, I definitely meant liberal. I'd have no idea what party you belonged to, except that you referred to democrats as "we" a few times.


Right-wing talk show hosts did just fine from 03-06 when the democrats didn't have a thing.
I didn't pay attention... what did they talk about?


It's funny you say that...

The other day a homeless woman came to my house asking for money. She had a heart warming story (as they all do), and she convinced me to help her out. But instead of giving her money, I offered to buy her food. And guess what? She cursed at me, at walked away, not accepting the offer.

Unfortunatley you can't always know when someone in need really deserves the help.

This kinda thing happened to me at least twice. I don't give money to homeless people anymore, unless they are doing something to contribute to society. The homeless guys who hang out at the gas station with a squeegee and a bucket of soapy water, and offer to wash your windows... I always let them wash my windows and give them a couple bucks. I could do it myself, but I applaud the fact that they are trying to EARN money, rather than just asking for it. People with musical instruments who actually learn new music and portray some attempt at entertaining (there's a guy who's always on the same corner with a harmonica, and he just plays the same "song" over and over... it's not even really a song. I'd never give him money). I'll give money to such folks.

My problem with organizations is that I'm never convinced that I trust them. A seemingly trustworthy organization often is caught siphoning money off the top, or using the money for unnecessary things. It's hard... I just can't ever feel convinced I'm not getting ripped off.

Oh, and I agree with ninthz. I think Maria was unnecessarily attacked in this thread. Maybe she's being too objective, but so what. I often would rather give money to people where I am than in other countries, too. It's normal to have these thoughts. But sometimes people feel the need to play the white knight role, no matter what, and stomp on those who don't. I'm not saying that everyone who donates to charity is like this, of course. Just that it's obnoxious when people are.

Little_Miss_1565
01-16-2010, 07:29 PM
There was a huge scandal in France with an über-famous cancer charity that even my parents donated to. Ever since then, people have been chary of charities.

Yes, that is a major risk of donating to charity, especially new and trendy ones (see also Wyclef's Haiti charity, which is also well-meaning but abused). So I guess I'm extra glad that there are large, international, first-responder aid organizations out there like the Red Cross to help with disaster relief which no one should confuse with your average charity organization.

And yes, charity becomes very popular when disasters like this strike, mainly because people feel guilty they didn't care enough before the disaster, and maybe if they can posture enough about charity no one will notice -- but it's pretty much not necessary because most people do the same thing. And I believe the question of charity only came up because Maria mentioned that her news page was being cluttered by a tab to donate for disaster relief. Thinking people generally know what things are acceptable to say and what aren't -- Rush and Pat Robertson certainly knew better than to say what they said. They continued to say these things because they knew it would get them lots of attention, and more than the usual suspects would hear their message. It's not a mark of bravery to say these unpopular things, as they are not fighting to get their message across. They enjoy a great deal of freedom, fame, and of course money to say them. Though this forum has none of these three things in spades, it does seem to afford a lot of attention to those who actively bring it on themselves.

Additionally, if this thread was evidence of Maria being attacked, I would hate to see what Maria actually being attacked would look like. I'm also struggling to see where the white-knighting is. What Maria said was kind of a dick thing to say not because she should want to give to charity. Plenty of people don't, and thus shouldn't. She thinks that a link to donate to charity should be removed from a public website because she finds it annoying -- that's the objectionable part.

Little_Miss_1565
01-16-2010, 07:58 PM
Well I know I did'nt, not because it was boring or enything, but I am just very tierd and it seems like alot to read right now,

But not too tired to post in the thread?

DMelges
01-16-2010, 08:02 PM
But not too tired to post in the thread?

Ouch. :eek:

Little_Miss_1565
01-16-2010, 08:28 PM
Nope, cuz I did'nt write like an intire story on this thread, Oh and I also did'nt judge what other people posted on this thread when they did'nt understand what it was about!

Dude, come on. It's one thing to admit that you're just posting for the sake of posting. But don't try to defend it.

Al Coholic
01-16-2010, 11:49 PM
Who actually writes out dexternumbers's numbers?

llamas - mostly backing the Iraq war, calling opponents to it soft on terrorism, opposing Kerry, hyping terrorist fear, and echoing Republican rhetoric. But you could've guessed as much.