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TheUnholyNightbringer
01-27-2005, 07:20 AM
There was an excellent programme on the BBC a few nights ago, and another on Radio Five Live today. Did anyone else see/hear it?

RIP, victims of Auschwitz.

Tizzalicious
01-27-2005, 07:23 AM
I've been to Auschwitz...it was very very VERY impressing...

TheUnholyNightbringer
01-27-2005, 07:25 AM
I've never been.. I'd love to though., and to Belsen. Obviously I'm appalled by the atrocities, but the mentality of the Nazis and the whole Final Solution thing fascinates me.

Tizzalicious
01-27-2005, 07:28 AM
You should go sometime...I went there with school...we could choose London, Prague or Poland, I chose Poland, cuz I figured I'd go to Prague or London sometime (this was before I'd been there), and I don't regret it!

TheUnholyNightbringer
01-27-2005, 07:29 AM
Somethign stirred in my mind, so I googled up and managed to find a poem on this.

Vultures by Chinua Achebe

In the greyness
and drizzle of one despondent
dawn unstirred by harbingers
of sunbreak a vulture
perching high on broken
bone of a dead tree
nestled close to his
mate his smooth
bashed-in head, a pebble
on a stem rooted in
a dump of gross
feathers, inclined affectionately
to hers. Yesterday they picked
the eyes of a swollen
corpse in a water-logged
trench and ate the things in its bowel. Full
gorged they chose their roost
keeping the hollowed remnant
in easy range of cold
telescopic eyes ...
Strange
indeed how love in other
ways so particular
will pick a corner
in that charnel-house
tidy it and coil up there, perhaps
even fall asleep - her face
turned to the wall!

... Thus the Commandant at Belsen
Camp going home for
the day with fumes of
human roast clinging
rebelliously to his hairy
nostrils will stop
at the wayside sweet-shop
and pick up a chocolate
for his tender offspring
waiting at home for Daddy's return ...

Praise bounteous
providence if you will
that grants even an ogre
a tiny glow-worm
tenderness encapsulated
in icy caverns of a cruel
heart or else despair
for in every germ
of that kindred love is
lodged the perpetuity
of evil.

Vera
01-27-2005, 07:31 AM
This is so like the worst place to post this thread.

*shakes her head and waits for the idiots to show up with their "The Jews had it coming"-crap*

Vicky
01-27-2005, 07:33 AM
This is so like the worst place to post this thread.

*shakes her head and waits for the idiots to show up with their "The Jews had it coming"-crap*

i agree

TheUnholyNightbringer
01-27-2005, 07:38 AM
Well I think it deserves some sort of marker. No doubt there will be idiots who say that, but I'll take comfort in the fact that at least some people here show a little humanity.

Vicky
01-27-2005, 07:48 AM
Well I think it deserves some sort of marker. No doubt there will be idiots who say that, but I'll take comfort in the fact that at least some people here show a little humanity.

to be honest, I didn't even realise until Look North (local news) said this afternoon..

shatskater
01-27-2005, 07:59 AM
The Jews had it coming. not really. Just like NightBringer the whole Nazi thing facinates me imensly. Adolf Hitler, Death Camps, all those things. I love learning about World War II and The Nazi Dictatorship. So I know quiet a bit about Adolf Hitler and the Nazi's. But I still disagree with what they did, because I am against facism. So ya.

Now time for the bad timing cruel jokes.

Two guys walk into a bar and sit down. They are sitting there talking and look over to the otherside of the bar and see a guy that looks like Hitler. They ask the bartender "Hey is that Hitler over there?" and the bartender said "Ya" and walks away. So they sit there talking and decide to go over there and so they do and they say "Hey are you Hitler?" and he says "Yes I am, why?" And they say "oh no reason just wondering....if you could go back in time what would you redo?" and Hitler thinks for a minute or two and says "I would kill 300,000 jews and 3 ducks." and they thought for a minute...and then asked..."why would you kill 3 ducks?" and Hitler says "SEE, NOBODY GIVES A SHIT ABOUT THE JEWS!!"

What is the difference between a pizza and a jew? Pizza's don't scream when you put them in the oven!

How do you put 1,000,001 jews in a car? 1 driving....and 1 million in the ashtray.

TheUnholyNightbringer
01-27-2005, 08:01 AM
You are scum.

Mr.Fletcher
01-27-2005, 08:08 AM
Im watching a transmision [live] from Auschwitz on TVP1, our polish TV channel.

When I was in lower high school we went there for a trip. I will never forget what I saw there and Im full of compassion and respect for the victims and those, who survived.

shatskater
01-27-2005, 08:10 AM
You are scum.

Who me. I can't be. I told you I do care about the jews. I have jewish friends. I also have though a twisted sense of humor. But hey, you think what you want. I think Nazi facism was interesting, and I also think those jokes are funny.

TheUnholyNightbringer
01-27-2005, 08:11 AM
Jokes about the millions of Jews who died in the Holocaust simply because of who they were are never funny, but today least of all. Show some fucking compassion, you worm.

Mr.Fletcher
01-27-2005, 08:12 AM
I also think those jokes are funny

Yeah, maybe they are, but NOT in a day like this - its aniversary...

JoY
01-27-2005, 08:17 AM
yeah, I've heard about it. I didn't really want to watch it on telly, though. I don't need to hear the names of everyone who died there, or who was on the deportation list. when you know the owner of one name personally, that's enough to realise every name had an owner & every number stands for an amount of persons, that were tortured to no end.

we'll never fully comprehend what happened in second world war, so in the end humanity won't really learn (though we try to state otherwise). all we know, is that we wouldn't want another war like it, but the main reason for this war is found in our following nature, which can't really be explained rationally.

JoY
01-27-2005, 08:18 AM
Who me. I can't be. I told you I do care about the jews. I have jewish friends. I also have though a twisted sense of humor. But hey, you think what you want. I think Nazi facism was interesting, and I also think those jokes are funny.
you are so unintelligent, doesn't it ever hurt your head?

shatskater
01-27-2005, 08:19 AM
hey buddies. sorry. those jokes are funny. and techniqually one of the main reasons Hitler wanted the jews gone is because a jew killed some german embassador or sumthing. and german economy wasnt thriving. he was looking for an excuse....its the peoples fault for following him, knowing very well that it wasnt the jews fault. he promised them great things, thats why they followed Hitler. But they didnt do what was right. and if you think about it Hitler was a GREAT LEADER!! he was amazing, he just had a bad vision. but he is defintly one of the best war leaders this world has ever seen.

TheUnholyNightbringer
01-27-2005, 08:19 AM
hey buddies. sorry. those jokes are funny. and techniqually one of the main reasons Hitler wanted the jews gone is because a jew killed some german embassador or sumthing. and german economy wasnt thriving. he was looking for an excuse....its the peoples fault for following him, knowing very well that it wasnt the jews fault. he promised them great things, thats why they followed Hitler. But they didnt do what was right. and if you think about it Hitler was a GREAT LEADER!! he was amazing, he just had a bad vision. but he is defintly one of the best war leaders this world has ever seen.

So that gives you the right to make jokes about the mass slaughter of millions of Jews, does it?

shatskater
01-27-2005, 08:24 AM
So that gives you the right to make jokes about the mass slaughter of millions of Jews, does it?

yes....yes it does.

Mr.Fletcher
01-27-2005, 08:25 AM
shatskater, have you ever been in Auschwitz? Have you ever seen the crematory, the barracks, piles of cut hair, empty boxes of Cyclone B on your own eyes? Have ever talked to a person who survived the concetration camp? If not, you should. Maybe this will teach you something and change your behaviour.

shatskater
01-27-2005, 08:31 AM
shatskater, have you ever been in Auschwitz? Have you ever seen the crematory, the barracks, piles of cut hair, empty boxes of Cyclone B on your own eyes? Have ever talked to a person who survived the concetration camp? If not, you should. Maybe this will teach you something and change your behaviour.

i have never been there. yes i have talked to people who were there. and no not even that would change my sense of humor. i think the jokes are funny, im sorry. thats me.

JoY
01-27-2005, 08:32 AM
shatskater: "or something"

hey bright little you, leave it. I fear that there are MANY visitors on this board, that don't need your history lessons on this particular subject.


may I also add, that I think the whole fuss about Auschwitz in particular is.. highly strange? & actually almost offensive. Auschwitz was the last station many Jews would ever see in their lives, but what happened there was simple killing of human beings. what happened in Amersfoort however is beyond anything anyone could every imagine. & not that I'd want to, but where are the people to remember all the cruelties that went on there? ironically Westerbork is also known as one of the most notorious camps, when in fact I've heard stories of several people, who were sent there, about that it was the least terrible camp they'd been in.

JoY
01-27-2005, 08:35 AM
i have never been there. yes i have talked to people who were there. and no not even that would change my sense of humor. i think the jokes are funny, im sorry. thats me.
I HATE the excuse "I'm sorry, that's me." it's the lamest excuse on the planet, only used by ones, who don't have one. for instance rapists, child molesters & killers. "well sorry man, but that's just me" I suppose it's also the excuse for your terrible English? your English & your bad sense of humour don't define you, but only show, that you've got a LOT to learn.

Mr.Fletcher
01-27-2005, 08:39 AM
shatskater: "or something"
may I also add, that I think the whole fuss about Auschwitz in particular is.. highly strange? Auschwitz was the last station many Jews would ever see in their lives, but what happened there was simple killing of human beings. what happened in Amersfoort however is beyond anything anyone could every imagine. & not that I'd want to, but where are the people to remember all the cruelties that went on there? ironically Westerbork is also known as one of the most notorious camps, when in fact I've heard stories of several people, who were sent there, about that it was the least terrible camp they'd been in.

What you mean by 'simple killing of human beings'?
Your simple killing is called HOLOCAUST, girl.

And what happened in Amersfoort?

TheUnholyNightbringer
01-27-2005, 08:40 AM
She does have a point. There does need to be an overall commemoration. I suppose Auschwitz is the main camp for most people because of it's infamous reputation.

shatskater
01-27-2005, 08:49 AM
all the camps have a bad reputation. what the hell are you talking about. and joy....i am not a bad speller. i am to lazy to prove my superior intellect to you. or anyone else on this board for that matter. i am lazy not stupid. my sense of humor is my own, i am sorry you dont agree with that, but like i said before that is me. and it is. its not an excuse, its the truth. i find jokes like that funny.

JoY
01-27-2005, 08:50 AM
Mr.Fletcher -you don't really know what I'm talking about, do you? or what you yourself are talking about, for that matter.

the Holocaust wasn't just the killing in Auschwitz - it was everywhere. people in Auschwitz had to live under terrible conditions. yes, for a short time, until they were killed. but the torture & horror that went on in other camps.. what I've heard & also what I haven't heard will never leave my mind.

Amersfoort was a Dutch concentrationcamp & it was one of the most horrifying ones ever to exist. still even most Dutch people don't have a clue, that there even was one there. Vught was pretty cozy compared to Amersfoort. I NEVER hear anything about the camps, where they pulled out my grandfather's finger- & toenails. where they stuck a hose up people's asses, until they'd puke bowels & poo, what lead to their deaths. & so much more, I don't even want to think of.

shatskater
01-27-2005, 08:52 AM
they werent all killed ya jew. and in some cases the places they were wasnt all that bad.

JoY
01-27-2005, 08:53 AM
She does have a point. There does need to be an overall commemoration. I suppose Auschwitz is the main camp for most people because of it's infamous reputation.
I agree. Auschwitz is just known as the last final station. but no one thinks of how many stations before Auschwitz were for thousands of others the last station.

TheUnholyNightbringer
01-27-2005, 08:54 AM
they werent all killed ya jew. and in some cases the places they were wasnt all that bad.

Oh, so I suppose you were there being tortured and killed, were you?

You've just proven to me that you are total scum and a waste of space. It's people like you that breed prejudice and discrimination.

JoY
01-27-2005, 08:56 AM
they werent all killed ya jew. and in some cases the places they were wasnt all that bad.
I'm not Jewish, although a part of me, that I loved dearly, is.
& the places they went to WERE bad. they took away lives, family, friends, jobs & most of all freedom. that's bad enough in itself. camp Vught might have saved the lives of many people, fact is, that they were threatened with death. that *is* bad. the fact, that they had to work for the nazi's there in order to save their lives. that they had to worship the ones, that hated them the most... that's a punishment for something none of them did, that will live on forever in their heads. you don't realise any of this. that's what's so offensive about it.

shatskater
01-27-2005, 09:01 AM
Oh, so I suppose you were there being tortured and killed, were you?

You've just proven to me that you are total scum and a waste of space. It's people like you that breed prejudice and discrimination.

ME!? HAhahahaha....aha...haha...I think not buddy. I am agianst racism. I dont agree with racism. I think its bad, that is why those jokes are funny. but no i am not racist. sorry u think that.

ERASE RACISM!

Tizzalicious
01-27-2005, 09:06 AM
they werent all killed ya jew. and in some cases the places they were wasnt all that bad.

Not all that bad????? They were captured!!!!!! And even if they weren't killed, they were still treated like shit, plus they lost a lot of their family, etc. How can you say something like "oh, they weren't killed, so it's not all that bad"

shatskater
01-27-2005, 09:08 AM
death is bad. i agree what hitler and the nazi's did was bad. but i would much rather be alive. i would have just converted if i was a jew back then, ii would no longer be a jew.

TheUnholyNightbringer
01-27-2005, 09:10 AM
ME!? HAhahahaha....aha...haha...I think not buddy. I am agianst racism. I dont agree with racism. I think its bad, that is why those jokes are funny. but no i am not racist. sorry u think that.

ERASE RACISM!

You have no fucking idea how lucky you are to sit there, healthy, typing all this, not having to fear for your life simply because of who you are.

Maybe you wouldn't be saying that if there was a real possibility that any moment a person could come through your door and take you away, to be tortured, humiliated and even killed simply because of who you are. At one time, if you were a Jew, this was real, even probable.

I'm sure any Jew in the camps would have given anything to be in the situation you're in. How DARE you mock them by saying you're not racist. How DARE you sit there and belittle everything they went through.

Tizzalicious
01-27-2005, 09:12 AM
death is bad. i agree what hitler and the nazi's did was bad. but i would much rather be alive. i would have just converted if i was a jew back then, ii would no longer be a jew.

yeah, cuz that solves everything, and that would have made you feel a lot better.

"all my family is dead and killed by Hitler, but at least he won't kill me, cuz I converted"

shatskater
01-27-2005, 09:16 AM
You have no fucking idea how lucky you are to sit there, healthy, typing all this, not having to fear for your life simply because of who you are.

Maybe you wouldn't be saying that if there was a real possibility that any moment a person could come through your door and take you away, to be tortured, humiliated and even killed simply because of who you are. At one time, if you were a Jew, this was real, even probable.

I'm sure any Jew in the camps would have given anything to be in the situation you're in. How DARE you mock them by saying you're not racist. How DARE you sit there and belittle everything they went through.

i am not belittleing anything. i am making jokes. that some1 else made, all i did was post them. and no i would try to save my family, but i would easily convert and NOT DIE!!! but hitler wouldnt kill me anyway. im blue eyes and blonde haired...i would live, for i look like what he thought to be a supreme race.

TheUnholyNightbringer
01-27-2005, 09:21 AM
I'm not going to argue with you anymore. That's not what this topic's about. It's about remembering the lives and deaths of every one of the Nazi's victims.

Mr.Fletcher
01-27-2005, 09:26 AM
Mr.Fletcher -you don't really know what I'm talking about, do you? or what you yourself are talking about, for that matter.

the Holocaust wasn't just the killing in Auschwitz - it was everywhere. people in Auschwitz had to live under terrible conditions. yes, for a short time, until they were killed. but the torture & horror that went on in other camps.. what I've heard & also what I haven't heard will never leave my mind.

Amersfoort was a Dutch concentrationcamp & it was one of the most horrifying ones ever to exist. still even most Dutch people don't have a clue, that there even was one there. Vught was pretty cozy compared to Amersfoort. I NEVER hear anything about the camps, where they pulled out my grandfather's finger- & toenails. where they stuck a hose up people's asses, until they'd puke bowels & poo, what lead to their deaths. & so much more, I don't even want to think of.

Sry, my mistake. Yes I know 'holocaust' is a name for the overall.

Auschwitz was the biggest concentration camp in whole Europe. There were like three parts of Auschwitz: Auschwitz I [the oldest part], Auschwitz II Birkenau and Auchwitz III Monowitz.

People there were also treated inhumanly. Medical experiments were made on the imprisoned; women had to birth children in places full of germs and rats, people were executed, forced to work over their abilities. They were dying becouse of epidemics, hunger, tortures, punishment.
Not only Jews were killed in Auschwitz. There were also Gypsys, Polish people [the elite of polish community - leaders, scientists, sportsmen, writers, officers, etc.], Russian people and many other nationalities.

Since 1940 to 1945 about 1,1 - 1,5 million of people died in this one concentration camp.

JoY
01-27-2005, 09:48 AM
I know all this. but that doesn't take away the fact, that it simply wasn't the only camp. people -were- treated horribly, but not just there. that's my point. the only thing, that makes the difference between Auschwitz & some of the rest, are the gas-chambers. BUT extermination also took place in Kulmhof, Belzec, Sobibor, Treblinka & Majdanek. & I don't care if in the end less people were killed there, than in Auschwitz - people were killed. Auschwitz may represent that & be the symbol of the Holocaust, I just think many people forget about the reality of this & how many other places there were, besides Auschwitz, where people were tortured, robbed of freedom, killed, excluded from society, etc.

& you forgot mentally disabled.

(don't think I dislike you, by the way. I'm just quite.. 'passionate' (though that isn't the right word) about this subject.)

Mr.Fletcher
01-27-2005, 10:02 AM
Who talks about disliking? we just discuss.
I dont think people forget about other camps, places. I assume they remamber and show their compassion by visiting those places, bringing fresh flowers and candles as a symbol of a memory that still lives inside them.
The fact is Auschwitz was the biggest of them all. Through years it became a symbol of the holocaust. Thats why theres 'the fuss' about Auschwitz.
If for example Kulmhof was the biggest, there will probably be a fuss over the Kulmhof. Thats quite obvious.

the_GoDdEsS
01-27-2005, 10:11 AM
shatskater, have you ever been in Auschwitz? Have you ever seen the crematory, the barracks, piles of cut hair, empty boxes of Cyclone B on your own eyes? Have ever talked to a person who survived the concetration camp? If not, you should. Maybe this will teach you something and change your behaviour.

Oh dudes, I've seen it all. And the gas chambers and the ovens. It's real thrilling and sick and creepy at times. But definitely worth seeing it all. You'll understand better.

Tizzalicious
01-27-2005, 10:44 AM
Oh dudes, I've seen it all. And the gas chambers and the ovens. It's real thrilling and sick and creepy at times. But definitely worth seeing it all. You'll understand better.

*agrees* It was so...meh. Dunno. Impressive is the only word I can think of.

Vera
01-27-2005, 11:30 AM
For a person who supposedly has studied these things, shatskater, you do not seem to realize the way Hitler's ideology worked.

Born a Jew, always a Jew. Being Jewish did not mean just belonging to a different religion, it meant that you had Jewish BLOOD running in your veins. The same animal blood that had wrecked the originally divine Aryan race during centuries and centuries. It was thanks to Jews that Germany lost WW1.

You can't convert from being a Jew into an Aryan. If it would've been that simple, that many Jews wouldn't have been killed.

The question whether Hitler truly believed in his ideology can be asked and can't be definitely answered but what remains is the fact that the man acted according to his ideology. To rid his Great Germany of everyone who was in some specific way very different, he set up concentration camps that did not only kill Jews, they also killed regular Germans who had something that might poison the Aryan blood. Even people who had epilepsia were sent off to the camps because epilepsia was considered a genetical disease. Children with disabilities (mental or physical) were killed, as well.

It is extremely tactless to make Jew jokes on a day like this, in a topic like this. It is inconsiderate and stupid. Even if you do find it funny, you should realize that there is a time and a place for certain jokes and this was definitely not the correct time or the place to show off your "twisted sense of humor". Not realizing that really makes you more ignorant than your lack of spelling or your often rather stupid comments have previously proved.

Also, you said that it was the peoples fault for following him. Remember 1930's depression? It was then that Hitler's party's support rocketed. Often in times of recession, people seek promise in extreme rightwing or leftwing parties. Hitler appeared to be on the people's side. Anti-semitism had always existed in Europe. Propaganda works. But ultimately, in Hitler's nation, you didn't have the right to think differently. If you did, it was very likely you would be the one sent to the concentration camp yourself. Many Germans did hide Jews in their homes or organized it for some of the Jewish population to flee the country in order to protect them.

In short, no, it was not the people's fault. They didn't go, "Hey let's kill a couple of million Jews!", those who weren't brainwashed definitely didn't support it.

Again, for a person who has supposedly studied these things a lot and knows "quite a lot", you don't seem to know jackshit.

Eccentric Sara
01-27-2005, 12:39 PM
Somethign stirred in my mind, so I googled up and managed to find a poem on this.

Vultures by Chinua Achebe

In the greyness
and drizzle of one despondent
dawn unstirred by harbingers
of sunbreak a vulture
perching high on broken
bone of a dead tree
nestled close to his
mate his smooth
bashed-in head, a pebble
on a stem rooted in
a dump of gross
feathers, inclined affectionately
to hers. Yesterday they picked
the eyes of a swollen
corpse in a water-logged
trench and ate the things in its bowel. Full
gorged they chose their roost
keeping the hollowed remnant
in easy range of cold
telescopic eyes ...
Strange
indeed how love in other
ways so particular
will pick a corner
in that charnel-house
tidy it and coil up there, perhaps
even fall asleep - her face
turned to the wall!

... Thus the Commandant at Belsen
Camp going home for
the day with fumes of
human roast clinging
rebelliously to his hairy
nostrils will stop
at the wayside sweet-shop
and pick up a chocolate
for his tender offspring
waiting at home for Daddy's return ...

Praise bounteous
providence if you will
that grants even an ogre
a tiny glow-worm
tenderness encapsulated
in icy caverns of a cruel
heart or else despair
for in every germ
of that kindred love is
lodged the perpetuity
of evil.
Jeez! How random! We did this poem for GCSE English! It was in the big booklet of poems and stuff they give you to study!!!
Anyway,yeah,I think the Holocaust was hideous,but I have to say I don't know that much about it! We studied it in Year 9 History (when I was 13/14),but I haven't done any history since then,so my knowledge is really patchy. Going to Auschwitz does sound interesting though.

RXP
01-27-2005, 12:42 PM
I saw the documentary on the BBC last week. It was awful I didn't watch yesterdays one. I coudln't.

Mota Boy
01-27-2005, 12:56 PM
Come on people, the guy has demonstrated multiple times in the past that he's a borderline retard without the ability to reason. I don't think you can get mad at him for posting Holocaust jokes in a thread about the anniversary of Auschwitz's liberation any more than you should beat a puppy for shitting on the kitchen floor. Why y'all would allow one moron to derail this thread is beyond me.

That said, I've been to the Holocaust museum in Washington D.C. and found it fascinating and horrifying, but not as deeply moving as so many people had portrayed it to be. I think that I've heard about the atrocities committed there so often that hearing about them for the umpteenth time, even as well presented as it was, didn't shock or deeply move me, for I'd already heard everything.

Still, actually seeing some of the ovens, the shorn hair and decaying shoes, and hearing firsthand accounts of time spent there was powerful, but nothing that I wasn't prepared to see.

Vera
01-27-2005, 01:14 PM
Why y'all would allow one moron to derail this thread is beyond me.
It pains me when people are ignorant and stupid about this particular crime against humanity. Partly because it happened so close, both geographically and ...timely (?), 60 years isn't that long of a time. It's just frustrating and makes my blood boil.

Also, it's easier to rant at some motherfucker than start remembering every horrible detail you have heard about the death camps. It's a really strange event, the way it has affected future generations so much. It's like this big something that won't leave our minds no matter how hard we might try.

HornyPope
01-27-2005, 01:48 PM
I'm surprised there was only one enfant-provocateur in this topic. Usually they form a wolfpack. It's not a question of being mean or ignorant on their part but rather the search for attention. Happens all the time. Don't waste your breath.

Moving on.

I bought a book today on the marking speaches of the 20th century. As I skimmed through it I saw Elie Wiesel's name. I'm a fan of his. Read his two books--L'aube and La Nuit. The latter about his personal experience in the Holocausat and more specifically- Auschwitz. Without any further dues:



I speak to you as a man, who 50 years and nine days ago had no name, no hope, no future and was known only by his number, A7713.

I speak as a Jew who has seen what humanity has done to itself by trying to exterminate an entire people and inflict suffering and humiliation and death on so many others.

In this place of darkness and malediction we can but stand in awe and remember its stateless, faceless and nameless victims. Close your eyes and look: endless nocturnal processions are converging here, and here it is always night. Here heaven and earth are on fire.

Close your eyes and listen. Listen to the silent screams of terrified mothers, the prayers of anguished old men and women. Listen to the tears of children, Jewish children, a beautiful little girl among them, with golden hair, whose vulnerable tenderness has never left me. Look and listen as they quietly walk towards dark flames so gigantic that the planet itself seemed in danger.

All these men and women and children came from everywhere, a gathering of exiles drawn by death.

Yitgadal veyitkadash, Shmay Rabba.

In this kingdom of darkness there were many people. People who came from all the occupied lands of Europe. And then there were the Gypsies and the Poles and the Czechs ... It is true that not all the victims were Jews. But all the Jews were victims.

Now, as then, we ask the question of all questions: what was the meaning of what was so routinely going on in this kingdom of eternal night. What kind of demented mind could have invented this system?

And it worked. The killers killed, the victims died and the world was the world and everything else was going on, life as usual. In the towns nearby, what happened? In the lands nearby, what happened? Life was going on where God's creation was condemned to blasphemy by their killers and their accomplices.

Yitgadal veyitkadash, Shmay Rabba.

Turning point or watershed, Birkenau produced a mutation on a cosmic scale, affecting man's dreams and endeavours. After Auschwitz, the human condition is no longer the same. After Auschwitz, nothing will ever be the same.

Yitgadal veyitkadash, Shmay Rabba.

As we remember the solitude and the pain of its victims, let us declare this day marks our commitment to commemorate their death, not to celebrate our own victory over death.

As we reflect upon the past, we must address ourselves to the present and the future. In the name of all that is sacred in memory, let us stop the bloodshed in Bosnia, Rwanda and Chechnia; the vicious and ruthless terror attacks against Jews in the Holy Land. Let us reject and oppose more effectively religious fanaticism and racial hate.

Where else can we say to the world "Remember the morality of the human condition," if not here?

For the sake of our children, we must remember Birkenau, so that it does not become their future.

Yitgadal veyitkadash, Shmay Rabba: Weep for Thy children whose death was not mourned then: weep for them, our Father in heaven, for they were deprived of their right to be buried, for heaven itself became their cemetery.

shatskater
01-27-2005, 04:17 PM
For a person who supposedly has studied these things, shatskater, you do not seem to realize the way Hitler's ideology worked.

Born a Jew, always a Jew. Being Jewish did not mean just belonging to a different religion, it meant that you had Jewish BLOOD running in your veins. The same animal blood that had wrecked the originally divine Aryan race during centuries and centuries. It was thanks to Jews that Germany lost WW1.

You can't convert from being a Jew into an Aryan. If it would've been that simple, that many Jews wouldn't have been killed.

The question whether Hitler truly believed in his ideology can be asked and can't be definitely answered but what remains is the fact that the man acted according to his ideology. To rid his Great Germany of everyone who was in some specific way very different, he set up concentration camps that did not only kill Jews, they also killed regular Germans who had something that might poison the Aryan blood. Even people who had epilepsia were sent off to the camps because epilepsia was considered a genetical disease. Children with disabilities (mental or physical) were killed, as well.

It is extremely tactless to make Jew jokes on a day like this, in a topic like this. It is inconsiderate and stupid. Even if you do find it funny, you should realize that there is a time and a place for certain jokes and this was definitely not the correct time or the place to show off your "twisted sense of humor". Not realizing that really makes you more ignorant than your lack of spelling or your often rather stupid comments have previously proved.

Also, you said that it was the peoples fault for following him. Remember 1930's depression? It was then that Hitler's party's support rocketed. Often in times of recession, people seek promise in extreme rightwing or leftwing parties. Hitler appeared to be on the people's side. Anti-semitism had always existed in Europe. Propaganda works. But ultimately, in Hitler's nation, you didn't have the right to think differently. If you did, it was very likely you would be the one sent to the concentration camp yourself. Many Germans did hide Jews in their homes or organized it for some of the Jewish population to flee the country in order to protect them.

In short, no, it was not the people's fault. They didn't go, "Hey let's kill a couple of million Jews!", those who weren't brainwashed definitely didn't support it.

Again, for a person who has supposedly studied these things a lot and knows "quite a lot", you don't seem to know jackshit.

I never said converting from jew to aryan. im talking religious wise. and you spelled tasteless wrong. and what the hell are you talking about the german economy thriving in the 30's? they were just as bad off as we were if not worse. inflation.

shatskater
01-27-2005, 04:23 PM
wheelchairman said it wasnt called genocide. he said it was called pesticide.

TheUnholyNightbringer
01-27-2005, 04:23 PM
First of all, you correcting Vera's spelling is one of the funniest things I've seen all day.

Secondly, YOU CAN'T READ. The said the depression of the 1930's, dipshit. Depression does not tend to suggest an uplift in economy.

shatskater
01-27-2005, 04:26 PM
First of all, you correcting Vera's spelling is one of the funniest things I've seen all day.

Secondly, YOU CAN'T READ. The said the depression of the 1930's, dipshit. Depression does not tend to suggest an uplift in economy.

ok i do apologize Vera. I was reading it wrong. but you still spelled tasteless wrong.

TheUnholyNightbringer
01-27-2005, 04:31 PM
Well in the course of this topic, you've spelled "you", "against", "wasn't", "immensely", "quite", and many others wrong.

Correcting people's spelling, the last resort, eh.

shatskater
01-27-2005, 04:38 PM
Well in the course of this topic, you've spelled "you", "against", "wasn't", "immensely", "quite", and many others wrong.

Correcting people's spelling, the last resort, eh.

see u need to go to the thread "Get over it"

i am being lazy, not stupid. as a matter of fact i am an excellent speller.

TheUnholyNightbringer
01-27-2005, 04:39 PM
YOU need to get over it. You're the one who started the whole spelling thing in this topic.

shatskater
01-27-2005, 07:10 PM
YOU need to get over it. You're the one who started the whole spelling thing in this topic.

i didnt start it!! yall belittled me because i choose to abbreviate alot.

TheUnholyNightbringer
01-27-2005, 07:14 PM
Vera made an excellent point and the only thing you could do in response is point out that she spelled one word wrong. You didn't even reply to the rest of the post, confirming my fears that you do, infact, have no argument, and that you, infact, are a retard.

shatskater
01-27-2005, 07:18 PM
Vera made an excellent point and the only thing you could do in response is point out that she spelled one word wrong. You didn't even reply to the rest of the post, confirming my fears that you do, infact, have no argument, and that you, infact, are a retard.

not necisarily i did reply but read it incorrectly so i couldnt make the point i was gunna make.

Vera
01-27-2005, 11:48 PM
I'm going to go off at you just because I enjoy mocking the stupid.

First things fucking last, invest in purchasing a dictionary: http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=tactless

Tactless really was the word I was going for, tasteless is a word I was not going for, though you are that, as well.


I never said converting from jew to aryan. im talking religious wise.

That just proves you completely missed my point. In short, Hitler doesn't fucking care if you convert religiouswise. You'd still be a Jew in his eyes.

Mota Boy
01-28-2005, 12:26 AM
not necisarily i did reply but read it incorrectly so i couldnt make the point i was gunna make.
You suck. This does not need proving. Please stop polluting the board with your ideas. I challenge you to win a game of chess on Yahoo! games. Until you come back with proof that you're at least smarter than someone else on this blue ball, you aren't worthy of existing on the same site as I.

meaning_of_life
01-28-2005, 02:13 AM
OMG shatskater could probably be the biggest fucking moron on this board. i cant believe the ignorance of this faggot. you barely know anything about nazi germany or the holocaust, yet you think the camps and ghettos they were sent to "werent that bad". your a fucking idiot. i suppose the mass murder of 6 million + jews wasnt all that bad either. and WTF you say you dont have to prove your superior intelligence, well im yet to see a hint of intelligence from a single post of yours. fuck off.

shatskater
01-28-2005, 07:09 AM
OMG shatskater could probably be the biggest fucking moron on this board. i cant believe the ignorance of this faggot. you barely know anything about nazi germany or the holocaust, yet you think the camps and ghettos they were sent to "werent that bad". your a fucking idiot. i suppose the mass murder of 6 million + jews wasnt all that bad either. and WTF you say you dont have to prove your superior intelligence, well im yet to see a hint of intelligence from a single post of yours. fuck off.

nice to meet you to. AND NO SHIT SHERLOCK!! If I say I don't have to prove my superior intellect then I wouldn't be using it now would I? Therefore, you wouldn't see it. Goddamn...the stupid mother fuckers on the site never fail to suprise me. And I am pretty stupid. But I am also very good at history...school and otherwise. So I do know what the fuck I am talking about. Especially with WWII, I definetly know what I am talking about. So don't criticize or ridicule my intellegence for very obvious reasons.

1. I am smarter than you.
2. You don't know me nor do you know what I have been through.

And replying to the unholynighbringer from before..yes I do have to sit here and worry about being killed because of who I am. I mean shit I live in America and everybody hates America. We are at war with Terrorists. So actually I do have to worry about that.

You think you will drive me away with your belittling, and judgements. But your wrong. I will not leave. I am here to stay and I will stay I am also sorry that most of the people on this site are to much of pussies to talk shit over the internet. I bet it makes you feel big to doesn't it. How pitiful.

TheUnholyNightbringer
01-28-2005, 07:38 AM
1. I am smarter than you.
2. You don't know me nor do you know what I have been through.


Ooh, here we go! The sympathy trip!

Boo hoo, you've been through a lot. Doesn't stop you being a heartless moron. You don't know what the Jews in the Holocaust went through either, apparently. So why should I sypmpathise with you? 100% guaranteed you've not been through 1% of what they suffered.

It's not that you don't show off your "superior intellect", it's that you don't have one to show off. Go on, prove me wrong.


And replying to the unholynighbringer from before..yes I do have to sit here and worry about being killed because of who I am. I mean shit I live in America and everybody hates America. We are at war with Terrorists. So actually I do have to worry about that.

Well, you should know better then, shouldn't you?

tears_of_ash
01-28-2005, 07:52 AM
I have been reading through your messages and you are right. Shatskater you were wrong. He has a good point there. Oh sorry I hope you don't mind me eavesdropping.

sKratch
01-28-2005, 09:37 AM
By the way, Jews weren't the only ones targeted. Didn't check to see if anyone already said this, so fuck you if anyone did. Six million Polish people were killed--3 million Jews, 3 million non-Jews.

*R*G*
01-28-2005, 10:42 AM
Two guys walk into a bar and sit down. They are sitting there talking and look over to the otherside of the bar and see a guy that looks like Hitler. They ask the bartender "Hey is that Hitler over there?" and the bartender said "Ya" and walks away. So they sit there talking and decide to go over there and so they do and they say "Hey are you Hitler?" and he says "Yes I am, why?" And they say "oh no reason just wondering....if you could go back in time what would you redo?" and Hitler thinks for a minute or two and says "I would kill 300,000 jews and 3 ducks." and they thought for a minute...and then asked..."why would you kill 3 ducks?" and Hitler says "SEE, NOBODY GIVES A SHIT ABOUT THE JEWS!!"

What is the difference between a pizza and a jew? Pizza's don't scream when you put them in the oven!

How do you put 1,000,001 jews in a car? 1 driving....and 1 million in the ashtray.


I seriously hope you die of cancer.

And yes, I'm smarter than you.

JoY
01-28-2005, 10:44 AM
oh my god, am I tired with this topic. too bad, it started off so lovely.


first of all; no need for history lessons. everyone has heard it all & if they don't get it now, they never will.

second of all; if you don't have a drop of humanity running through your veins, that'll in the end be really your problem & yours only. shatskater - saying other's don't know what you've been through... god jaysus, like we'd want to know. is this topic about you? no. & not too sorry to say, we don't have any interest whatsoever in who you are & what you've been through, because you simply are terribly uninteresting. at this moment you seem unintelligent, narrow minded & unkind. on top selfish, after the comment you made. you managed to make an attempt to pull the attention your way in a topic about the fucking Holocaust.

third of all; stop saying Jews. first off; those were people, who got killed & secondly, they weren't all Jewish. (like Mr. Something & sKratch tried to say.)

fourth of all; I still believe Auschwitz as a symbol for the entire Holocaust is wrong. why? because it's very unrealistic & the cause of why so many people don't realise & understand the horror of it all. you can't just pick a place, where things were bad, to represent a massive war. things were bad at more than just a lot of places.

*R*G*
01-28-2005, 10:47 AM
By the way, Jews weren't the only ones targeted. Didn't check to see if anyone already said this, so fuck you if anyone did. Six million Polish people were killed--3 million Jews, 3 million non-Jews.

Completely OT, but do you know where Holocaust Park is in NY?

I'm going to visit it one day. I almost lost my (Serbian, non-Jewish) grandfather due to the Holocaust. He was one of only 4 people to walk from his camp in Jasenovac alive.

Jasenovac for anyone who doesn't know about Jasenovac was the largest complex of camps in Croatia, and was where the killing of most non-Jews took place.

*R*G*
01-28-2005, 10:52 AM
third of all; stop saying Jews. first off; those were people, who got killed & secondly, they weren't all Jewish. (like Mr. Something & sKratch tried to say.)



Not being an arsehole here, but calling Jewish people "Jews" is perfectly fine.

Just like Catholic people are called Catholics.

But I agree with your other points.

HMSPresident
01-28-2005, 11:24 AM
I've not been on this Forum long (as you can all see), but I think it's a fairly bad reflection on the site to say that I was *expecting* this thread to turn into the "i'm smarter than you", bitching bullshit that it has...

And, correct me if i'm wrong, it has been a while since I studied History, but am I not right in thinking that Auschwitz was Hitler's "last resort"? By that I mean didn't Hitler order everyone there to be killed because he knew the War was ending?? It was an attempt to cover-up what he had been doing, should he ever have been caught? Isn't that why it's seen as the focal point?

As I said, i'm probably wrong, but it's what I was thinking whilst reading through this thread.

sKratch
01-29-2005, 08:29 AM
Completely OT, but do you know where Holocaust Park is in NY?

I'm going to visit it one day. I almost lost my (Serbian, non-Jewish) grandfather due to the Holocaust. He was one of only 4 people to walk from his camp in Jasenovac alive.

Jasenovac for anyone who doesn't know about Jasenovac was the largest complex of camps in Croatia, and was where the killing of most non-Jews took place.
My grandfather (polish, non-jewish) spent time in several concentration camps. His prisoner number was pretty low, because he was taken up in one of the first roundups. Needless to say, he survived, because I'm alive. I think he was in Auschwitz (before it was a death camp) and Ravensbruck among others.

shatskater
01-29-2005, 10:56 AM
Don't get me wrong people. I am not trying to direct this topic to me. Because I am not a Jew and I don't live there. I do like talking about world war II though. It is just very interesting. And I am sorry that people died in thing, but the past is the past. We can't do anything about it now, except to remember it. All of it, not just the sad parts to. I mean you frowned down on what I said because you thought I was trying to offend someone. That's not true. I am just telling history. And to say that I tried to turn the topic into a talk about me is wrong. That was not my intent and if anyone should be guilty of that then let it be you all. I just talked. Ya'll were the one's who started to belittle me. And of course I attempted to defend myself.

TheUnholyNightbringer
01-29-2005, 10:58 AM
You deserved to be belittled. What you said was disgusting. It may be the past, but the memory and the pain lives on. Just because it's the past, doesn't mean it shouldn't be remembered in the future. And respected, for that matter.

It shouldn't be us you should be apologising to.

tears_of_ash
01-29-2005, 11:08 AM
You deserved to be belittled. What you said was disgusting. It may be the past, but the memory and the pain lives on. Just because it's the past, doesn't mean it shouldn't be remembered in the future. And respected, for that matter.

It shouldn't be us you should be apologising to.

You spelled apologizing wrong.

TheUnholyNightbringer
01-29-2005, 11:09 AM
No, I didn't. Where I live (England) that's how it's spelled.

shatskater
01-29-2005, 11:13 AM
You spelled apologizing wrong.

lol ya you did. but I guess if you live over there in europe then its understandable. yall spell defence like that instead of like this defense. oh well who cares. I wasn't apologizing to anyone in particular and thats what I meant by that post is I think it should be remembered. I agree.

TheUnholyNightbringer
01-29-2005, 11:16 AM
No, I didn't. It's the Anglicised version.

Anyway, apparently, the only remembering you seem to think there should be is in the form of cruel jokes. Don't try and retract it all now.

shatskater
01-29-2005, 11:28 AM
No, I didn't. It's the Anglicised version.

Anyway, apparently, the only remembering you seem to think there should be is in the form of cruel jokes. Don't try and retract it all now.

no jackass. i think it should be remembered through history. so we dont do it agian. on the news lastnight though they said something similar to Hitler's Nazi Regime is happening in like india. and they are killing many people because of religion or race or sumthing like that anyways.

TheUnholyNightbringer
01-29-2005, 11:29 AM
In that case, shouldn't be too long before we hear jokes about that from you, eh?