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View Full Version : RaF,RaG has sold 310,000



Omni
08-12-2010, 02:27 AM
According to Wikipedia, a big jump from the last comfirmed source of 225,000. Wikipedia has the source this time, but it's a random person who seems to have sales figures, so it's of course not completely trustworthy, especially considering the vandalism this album's page has had. Still, 310,000 seems plausible.

If it's true, it's not far from Gold, now. I doubt it'll ever reach it, but still.

Lord_Gabo
08-12-2010, 03:06 AM
Rafrag is an excellent album i hope they reach gold

DexterWannabe
08-12-2010, 04:59 AM
225k is pretty lousy considering how much the other albums have sold.

offsrx
08-12-2010, 05:33 AM
It's hard to reach Gold, or sell a lot of copies nowdays, because of piracy, and internet :/
But it's a really great album indeed

DexterWannabe
08-12-2010, 06:00 AM
Piracy has nothing to do with declining album sales and the Internet is improving marketing and is making it easier to sell an album to new fans and listeners. The low number of sold copies is because the album is not as good as the other ones.

PAC90
08-12-2010, 06:41 AM
I'm pretty sure piracy is declining album sales almost everywhere, most people i know have stopped buying albums completely since its so easy to download them now for free. The Offspring in my oppinion will never have an album that will sell so well as Smash or Americana not because of the quality but because people no longer need to buy albums to listen to the songs or have them in their computer

Harleyquiiinn
08-12-2010, 07:09 AM
Piracy has nothing to do with declining album sales and the Internet is improving marketing and is making it easier to sell an album to new fans and listeners. The low number of sold copies is because the album is not as good as the other ones.

lol

I don't mean to be condescending but I have to say this:

I'm a pirate myself, for most of what I listen to, for several years. I am not willing to defend record companies but pretending that the declining album sales has nothing to do with piracy is complete dishonesty. If we didn't have any other choice, we would still buy.

findout5
08-12-2010, 08:42 AM
Those numbers may be true, but only Stateside. It sold more worldwide (last time checked over 400.000 units, by the guys over at worldcharts.net). There have been threads about it before.

Jojan
08-12-2010, 08:57 AM
What have it sold?

IamSam
08-12-2010, 09:26 AM
Piracy has nothing to do with declining album sales and the Internet is improving marketing and is making it easier to sell an album to new fans and listeners.

You have to be just plain ignorant to believe this.

yarock
08-12-2010, 11:14 AM
Piracy has nothing to do with declining album sales and the Internet is improving marketing and is making it easier to sell an album to new fans and listeners. The low number of sold copies is because the album is not as good as the other ones.

How useful is that "marketing improved by Internet" to you?How many albums did you buy from Amazon,ebay,etc.?

Even Ignition sold a million copies.

Biggest offspring fan
08-12-2010, 11:57 AM
Piracy has nothing to do with declining album sales and the Internet is improving marketing and is making it easier to sell an album to new fans and listeners. The low number of sold copies is because the album is not as good as the other ones.

I agree. I remeber that even Dexter him self said that piracy is good marketing. You guys are just stupid to think that the low sales has anything to do with piracy.

Outerspaceman21
08-12-2010, 12:15 PM
That's really not a bad number with the state of the music industry as it is. Sales have been steadily declining for years now. I remember reading an article in Rolling Stone that detailed how much sales have changed. The #1 album of 2000 was N'sync's No Strings Attached, selling 9,936,104 units. In 2006, the #1 album was the High School Musical soundtrack, selling 3,719,071 units. Thats a big drop in six years that can only be attested to the peer to peer file sharing over the internet.

yarock
08-12-2010, 12:17 PM
Yeah you're right,piracy has nothing to do with low sales-we stupids making that up.When did Dexter said such thing?I know he's from the lesser ones that Ok with Internet at the beginning but I never read something that he compliments piracy.

jacknife737
08-12-2010, 12:33 PM
You have to be just plain ignorant to believe this.

Word.

RAFRAG had four charting singles, and Your'e Gonna Go Far Kid was (probably?) their best charting single ever: as well, the album debut at #10 on the billboard charts. Splinter's singles had little airplay, and it debut at #30 on Billboard, yet it still managed to sell enough for Gold. Why? The answer is pretty obvious: people simply aren't buying music anymore in the same numbers. And if you don't think that piracy has anything to do with it, you're an idiot.

The internet is a good way to get your band noticed, but i have no idea how anyone can claim with a straight face that piracy hasn't hurt album sales.

310k isn't bad, given the current state of the music industry.

http://www.billboard.com/news/album-sales-plummet-to-lowest-total-in-decades-1004095638.story

Yeah, piracy totes has nothing to do with it /sarcasm

Omni
08-12-2010, 01:09 PM
I agree. I remeber that even Dexter him self said that piracy is good marketing. You guys are just stupid to think that the low sales has anything to do with piracy.



Slow down, now. Dexter did say that, yes… over ten years ago, when "pirating music" was waiting 30-45 minutes for a single 3:00 song to download on your 56K modem. Now, entire albums can be downloaded or streamed in the amount of time it took me to type this sentence. Convience is a major factor for almost all decisions, and it highly convenient to just download music these days, not to mention more affordable.

My theory is that you can probably trace drastic declines in music sales to about 2005, when DSL and broadband became as affordable as 56K, the price of the iPod became less expensive, and BitTorrent sites started taking off. Sure, cheap, legal music downloading has made great strides on the Internet, but free is still cheaper than cheap, and it takes the same amount of effort to do.


Yes, Ignition did sell a million - worldwide. It sold 500,000 in the US. I'm sure RaF,RaG had sold over a million worldwide. Anyway, yes, it's very hard for an album to go Gold or even Platinum these days. Shinedown's latest album is only Platinum, and with a song as huge as "Second Chance" in the 90s, that single alone would have driven it platinum. In fact, I think a good indicator for how much an album USE to sell, is to look at the RIAA ratings of its singles. Second Chance is 2x platinum as a single. That's probably how many sales that single alone would have brought it. If You Only Knew is Gold. Three other singles reached #1 on that album, so that would at least be a 3x platinum album. 310,000 is pretty good for a band that stayed out of the limelight as long as the Offspring did, and released their album with a minimal amount of marketing.

DMelges
08-12-2010, 01:22 PM
The only real way a musician and/or a band can make money these days is playing shows. Piracy is getting extremely out of hand, and it'll never be stopped, unless someone turns off the internet for good. Bands need to play shows to make money.

And let's face it, The Offspring isn't the most popular band in the world. From my own personal experience, the few people I know who like The Offspring are big enough fans to actually own a cd. Don't know any fans who don't have a cd. What I'm trying to say is, where I live, there aren't that many Offspring fans, but the fans that do exist are big fans.

So 310,000 only in the US isn't bad. Hell, i'd be happy if my band sold that much, haha. And i'm also sure that RFRG has reached 1 million worldwide.

randman21
08-12-2010, 01:23 PM
Jacknife and Omni basically made what I was going to post obsolete. I mean, you said exactly what was in my mind. Props.

I'll just reiterate that 1) RAFRAG was a pretty popular album and YGGFK is definitely their biggest single to date (11 weeks at number 1 on the Modern Rock chart), and 2) if your retarded theory was true that the album didn't sell well because it wasn't good, you wouldn't see a decline in EVERYBODY's record sales. 3 seconds of thought would have kept you from posting that.

Oh, and the Ignition thing, I believe I remember Dexter or someone saying that it had sold 300,000 copies at first and stayed there for a while. I would imagine that after they got big, people went back and bought it, and that's why it's at wherever it is now. Hehe, I'd find it hard to believe that 500,000 people outside of the US knew Offspring in 1992.

Omni
08-12-2010, 01:30 PM
In some respects, RaG,RaG was their most popular album, song-for-song. YGGF,K was their highest and longest charting hit. Hammerhead reached #2, and the Offspring have never had a #1 and #2 single in the same album. KAYDO was another big hit, narrowly missing the Top 5 at #7, and Half-Truism was a moderate hit at #21. The mild disappointment of Half-Truism was the only thing that stopped this album from having pretty much the best album of their radio career. The album was good, damn good. It got pretty good reviews for the most part. I don't know of many Offspring fans who dislike it, and I've seen more new, active users on this site since June 2008 than I did in the entire four previous years I'd been here combined. I just wanted to tell everyone the sales figure, because it had dropped off the charts entirely at 225K. To sell another almost 100,000 completely under the radar in such a short time was pretty good. It may actually trickle to Gold one of these days, who knows.

Walfri
08-12-2010, 01:59 PM
once I watched an interview with Atomw Willard and he said: "people can download our music, they can trade it or make tons of things, but if they really like it, they'll get our original albums"..
I donīt know what you think, but I think that's true..

cool 2 hate 681
08-12-2010, 02:17 PM
that's pretty sad i think when it'a all said and done conspiracy of one will be their last album ever to go platinum

Jaded skies
08-12-2010, 02:52 PM
Piracy has nothing to do with declining album sales and the Internet is improving marketing and is making it easier to sell an album to new fans and listeners. The low number of sold copies is because the album is not as good as the other ones.

Piracy has a lot to do with declining sales. Most people nowadays buy what they hear on mainstream markets. not too many people still shell out the 12 bucks to get the entire cd, when they could just buy the one or two songs they heard on the radio, or get the cd from a friend or internet for free. Case and point: look at the sales for YGGFK. it's been gold for more than half a year now.

Llamas
08-12-2010, 03:24 PM
Some info for the few people who think downloading illegally doesn't affect album sales.

2000: Nsync, No Strings Attached. 11 million worldwide - 2.4 million in first week.

2001: Hybrid Theory, Linkin Park. 9.6 million U.S. - 24 million worldwide.

2002: The Eminem Show, Eminem. 9.8 million U.S. - 19 million worldwide.

2003: Get Rich or Die Tryin', 50 Cent. 872,000 first week - 12 million worldwide - 7 million U.S.

2004: Confessions, Usher. 1.1 million first week - 10 million U.S. 20 Million worldwide

2005: The Emancipation of Mimi, Mariah Carey. 10 million worldwide - 5 million U.S.

2006: High School Musical. 3.7 million U.S. and Canada.

2007: Noel, Josh Groban. 5 million worldwide - 4 million U.S.

2008: The Carter III, Lil Wayne. 1 million first week - 3.5 million U.S. - 3.5 million copies worldwide

2009: Fearless, Taylor Swift. 592,000 first week - 6 million total US - 8 million worldwide.

Huge decrease here. 95% of music downloads in 2008 were illegal - 40 billion songs. Personally, I download illegally. However, I still buy CDs. Downloading actually doesn't decrease the amount of albums I buy, even though I have more music this way. I buy the same number of albums, and if I couldn't download, I just wouldn't have the extra music. I wouldn't *increase* how much music I buy, because it's too expensive.

So. RFRG is not a shitty album. I think it's a great one, and I think part of the reason for its low sales is downloading, but also that the Offspring is just not a household name anymore. Most people don't even realize they're still making music. Probably because pop punk isn't really in the mainstream much anymore.

AllIn All It's Not So Bad
08-12-2010, 03:39 PM
Probably because pop punk isn't really in the mainstream much anymore.

How dare you call the offspring pop-punk? That kind of music is shit. I mean, sure, they make pop punk singles. But the res of the songs on each album has been punk.

YGGFK-pop punk
K,AYDO?-pop punk

and I know that Hammerhead and Half-truism were singles but they at least weren't pop-punk. I just remembered that Nothingtown is pop-punk. But the point I'm trying to make is that The Offspring are still punk because their majority and main songs are punk.

Llamas
08-12-2010, 03:45 PM
How dare you call the offspring pop-punk? That kind of music is shit. I mean, sure, they make pop punk singles. But the res of the songs on each album has been punk.

YGGFK-pop punk
K,AYDO?-pop punk

and I know that Hammerhead and Half-truism were singles but they at least weren't pop-punk. I just remembered that Nothingtown is pop-punk. But the point I'm trying to make is that The Offspring are still punk because their majority and main songs are punk.

Dear god, please tell me this was sarcasm...

Lord Phidias
08-12-2010, 03:52 PM
I thought someone would post something about economy issues worldwide...

joshgenis
08-12-2010, 03:57 PM
i believe piracy is the problem i agree. i usually pirate my songs but i buy all my offspring cds cause i want to support them especially

WebDudette
08-12-2010, 03:58 PM
I laughed, a lot. So, what you're trying to say is, people getting all this stuff absolutely free with less effort than it takes to go to the record store, has nothing to do with the sales dropping?

Omni
08-12-2010, 03:59 PM
The Offspring are pop-punk. Can we please move on and get over this? "Pop" is not a bad word, nor does it indicate a band has to look like Michael Jackson. Some of the best music ever made has been some kind of pop.


llamas, I think you meant to say No Strings Attached is 11,000,000 domestically. It's probably well over double that worldwide.

BigFish
08-12-2010, 04:02 PM
Piracy has nothing to do with declining album sales and the Internet is improving marketing and is making it easier to sell an album to new fans and listeners. The low number of sold copies is because the album is not as good as the other ones.

Anyone that's a regular on these boards should know not to listen to anything DexterWannabe says because it's always misinformed and condescending. Nothing more than a troll. The album was simply amazing and piracy is leading to decreasing album sales for sure. It's a fact. The stats are there to back it up. That being said, I will always buy an album from The Offspring rather than download it just because of personal preference.

Llamas
08-12-2010, 04:06 PM
The Offspring are pop-punk. Can we please move on and get over this? "Pop" is not a bad word, nor does it indicate a band has to look like Michael Jackson. Some of the best music ever made has been some kind of pop.
Seriously. Better to ignore it, though... last thing this thread needs is a genre war.



llamas, I think you meant to say No Strings Attached is 11,000,000 domestically. It's probably well over double that worldwide.

"In December 2009, Billboard named No Strings Attached the album of the decade as it sold over 11 million copies worldwide."

Granted it's Wikipedia, but that's where I grabbed all those stats from. Regardless, it proves either way that considerably less albums are being sold over time. :P

Outerspaceman21
08-12-2010, 04:13 PM
So. RFRG is not a shitty album. I think it's a great one, and I think part of the reason for its low sales is downloading, but also that the Offspring is just not a household name anymore. Most people don't even realize they're still making music. Probably because pop punk isn't really in the mainstream much anymore.

I agree with this. Most people aren't familiar with the Offspring anymore. Whenever I'm with friends and they ask me what kind of music I like, I say The Offspring, then go on to play Pretty Fly for A White Guy and Why Don't You Get A Job?. Thats when they remember them. Then they tell me it sucks that they broke up and I remind them that they are still recording.

YGGF,K did sort of revive interest in the band and made it so that people still knew they existed.

Omni
08-12-2010, 04:13 PM
Anyone that's a regular on these boards should know not to listen to anything DexterWannabe says because it's always misinformed and condescending. Nothing more than a troll. The album was simply amazing and piracy is leading to decreasing album sales for sure. It's a fact. The stats are there to back it up. That being said, I will always buy an album from The Offspring rather than download it just because of personal preference.


I buy music on cds and records because I enjoy the feeling of having a collection, and owning all the artwork. I get a feeling of accomplishment hunting down rare media, and it also helps put some money (even if only a little) into the pockets of the bands I like. I have always supported free downloading, I do it all the time to make mix tapes, but I also practice in moderation.

@llamas, ah. Well, I know it's certified Diamond, which means it's sold at least 10,000,000 (10x platinum) in the US. It sounds odd that it only sold a million more throughout the world. It's funny how the RIAA made that super prestigious Diamond award only half a decade before the state of music made it completely impossible to achieve it.

Honestly, if you ask me, if things don't start looking up, RIAA should take a page out of other countries' books and make a Silver award for 250,000 sold.


Edit: Or cut the Diamond crap out completely. Bronze = 100,000. Silver = 250,000. Gold = 500,000, Platinum = 1,000,000.

Outerspaceman21
08-12-2010, 04:18 PM
Honestly, if you ask me, if things don't start looking up, RIAA should take a page out of other countries' books and make a Silver award for 250,000 sold.

Edit: Or cut the Diamond crap out completely. Bronze = 100,000. Silver = 250,000. Gold = 500,000, Platinum = 1,000,000.

Yeah, I was about to say something like that. I think eventually, if the issue of online piracy is not dealt with, the RIAA will lower their standards or just completely overhaul their system.

mynamewastaken
08-12-2010, 04:23 PM
If it's true, it's not far from Gold, now. I doubt it'll ever reach it, but still.

this makes me want to go out a buy like, a hundered copies. lol.

Omni
08-12-2010, 04:23 PM
Yeah, I was about to say something like that. I think eventually, if the issue of online piracy is not dealt with, the RIAA will lower their standards or just completely overhaul their system.


I don't know why, but the sales and charts figures of music have always extremely interested me. I've been wanting to even get a subscription to NeilsonSoundScan or Billboard or something, so I can keep up to date. But it's hard to get excited knowing nothing will ever sell that much. if they overhauled the system, I think that would be the best thing.

mynamewastaken
08-12-2010, 04:27 PM
Whenever I'm with friends and they ask me what kind of music I like, I say The Offspring, then go on to play Pretty Fly for A White Guy and Why Don't You Get A Job?. That's when they remember them. Then they tell me it sucks that they broke up and I remind them that they are still recording.

i honestly don't think The Offspring will EVER break up.... just go on recording until they die...

bouncingcoles
08-12-2010, 07:05 PM
Piracy has nothing to do with declining album sales and the Internet is improving marketing and is making it easier to sell an album to new fans and listeners. The low number of sold copies is because the album is not as good as the other ones.

no actually, for real its because of pirating and the internet where have you been the past 10 years

Walla_Walla 93
08-12-2010, 08:17 PM
Just re- listened to that album today... Goddamn it is amazing

Lord_Gabo
08-13-2010, 03:26 AM
If the offspring have the same promotion of green day they sells better than then. I think that Columbia doesn't have promoted a well rafrag.
I heard on the radio shit songs like the original 21 guns for thousand times .. but why? Because they had a good promotion

mynamewastaken
08-13-2010, 06:29 AM
21 guns

i HATE that song!

i too have noticed a decline in ppl who have ever HEARD of The Offspring. (until of course you play pretty fly, and with the younger crowd, yggfk)

i usually have to talk to old people when it comes to music

TheOldMark
08-13-2010, 12:35 PM
not bad considering everyone downloaded it.
wasn't it available for free?

randman21
08-13-2010, 12:41 PM
Umm, I don't think it was, but I could be wrong. There was the free preview of it on imeem a few days before, and I believe I remember that if you bought the physical CD on Amazon, you got the mp3 download for free.

jacknife737
08-13-2010, 01:31 PM
It was streamed a week prior to the release, but there was never an "official" free download.

Edit: what randy said

Omni
08-14-2010, 09:42 PM
21 Guns is no worse than Kristy, Are You Doing Okay. I'd say it's a pretty solid Green Day song. For almost every Green Day song that is insanely catchy and overplayed, I can think of an Offspring song that parallels it. They're both good at writing catchy music.